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Cornstock
06-19-2012, 12:45 AM
Are only effing tempting me. I'm tired of the friggin offseason. I can't take it any more. I'm gonna crack. I need football. I'm tired of talking about how terrible Cassel is. We know, he sucks. Understood. I just want to see some friggin games. Enough BS speculation from national pundits and suck up articles from local media and the corrupted FO PR machine. I'm tired of poop threads (although they are a nice distraction).

Anyone else cracking yet? Sorry for the rant. I just needed to vent.

Simply Red
06-19-2012, 12:46 AM
i agree. me too.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 01:17 AM
Look at it this way~ It's going be a shortened season with the end of the world and all so just make the best of it as we can. Sucks cus I want football too, it's really going piss me off if Stanzi takes over by december and that is that the end.

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 01:52 AM
I'm in the deepest depths of despair right now, so bear with me, and feel free to tell me I'm being illogical.


I'm dwelling on the quarterback situation right now in my misery:
Ok, so Pioli has assembled a pretty damn good group of players outside of the quarterback position. There aren't really any glaring needs at any of the starting positions, and while we aren't where we'd like to be for second string, we're really not in terrible shape either. I'm not defending Pioli here, but he took a shot with Cassel and came up empty. We know it, and deep down I think he knows it. Cassel's first couple seasons were trial runs to see what he had. He was adequate as a game manager in one of those seasons and pretty pathetic in the others. However, during that time as a trial run I wouldn't expect Pioli to be looking for a replacement for Cassel until he knew what he had. It could only be known with certainty that Cassel lacked the skill to be a starter a few games into last season (I realize many people on here thought he was worthless since the moment he was drafted, but bear with me, I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt). During the season you can't really find a replacement. We got Orton by a unique set of circumstances, but he really didn't want to be in KC, no matter what, so expecting us to tie him up long-term was out of the question. Our first opportunity at getting a replacement quarterback came this offseason.

First place you look is the draft: Luck and Griffin were the top candidates but both of those guys were locked up without any chance of us getting to them. Outside of them, there were no chances for us to grab a QBOTF. Next place to look: Free agency. Top candidate: Manning. He made it clear that he did not want to be in KC and we can't force him to be here so there's nothing we could do about it. The next option in the opinion of many was Flynn, but he has Cassel 2.0 written all over him. A game manager playing for an incredible team who just happens to put up great stats in a pretty meaningless game. I don't blame anyone for passing on him.

Now a trend is emerging. Orton and Manning both didn't want to be in KC. Why is that? Most people point to Pioli reputation and being the way he is with a controlling personality, and that's a strong possibility. I'm guessing that played into it, along with a number of other factors. As far as Manning is concerned, I think he just wanted to go be in his old-boys club in Denver so he could play poker with Elway and Bowlen. Whatever. Nothing we can do about that if he has his mind made up. We couldn't give him all the money in the world to play here (although he did take a boatload from Denver).

Now, outside of playing Stanzi, there is no one else who was a legitimate possibility to nab. We have to play Cassel. Sure, we botched up the chance to get Stanzi some playing time at the end of last season, but there may be more to that than we know. It could have been Haley spiting Pioli, as some have claimed. It may have been that the decision was made that Stanzi wasn't going to be played no matter what, to avoid a possible David Carr syndrome with him. Stanzi may have genuinely not been any good as a result of the shortened offseason and him being a rookie. Hard to believe he would have been worse than Palko, but whatever. Then we brought in Orton, and while it sucked not letting Stanzi have any starts, it was awesome to take down Green Bay and Denver.

So my point is, in this bottomless pit of football hopelessness, I don't see any opportunity where we could have got someone to replace Cassel. Pioli screwed the pooch signing him to a big payday and now we're all paying for it. It was a mistake. But we just have to wait for someone else to get into free agency before we can fix this damning mistake.

SNR
06-19-2012, 01:53 AM
Just so you know, all our football talk this regular season is going to be devoted to how much Cassel sucks. At least during the offseason we're talking about Hudson and Houston some.

JD10367
06-19-2012, 01:55 AM
Jennifer Hudson and Whitney Houston?

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 02:10 AM
I tell you this. I'd rather lose out right with Casshell than bring in another retread QB. I'd rather be able to have the tops of the draft in 2013 & setting on top QB draft prospect. The problem is the team is better than that so am hoping that Stanzi shows plenty of moxy in preseason and by some footballgodsgrace he gets to play most of the season and we strike gold with the kid. I just don't want a retread QB taking snaps for this team that is all. I want our own guy that we can build a championship team around. Am ready for football talk is talk seeing is believing & what we get is what we get. Casshell is our weekest link that is just going hold us back untill swich is made. It's as simple as that.

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 02:20 AM
I tell you this. I'd rather lose out right with Casshell than bring in another retread QB. I'd rather be able to have the tops of the draft in 2013 & setting on top QB draft prospect. The problem is the team is better than that so am hoping that Stanzi shows plenty of moxy in preseason and by some footballgodsgrace he gets to play most of the season and we strike gold with the kid. I just don't want a retread QB taking snaps for this team that is all. I want our own guy that we can build a championship team around. Am ready for football talk is talk seeing is believing & what we get is what we get. Casshell is our weekest link that is just going hold us back untill swich is made. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the not bringing in the retread part. I'll amend my last paragraph by saying that we need to draft someone to develop. Maybe we already have with Stanzi. Who knows. But I would be content with getting a QB in a similar manner as how we acquired Winston: getting someone who really is good coming off their first contract. We would have to pay them big time, but they would still be young and they would have to be amazing. I'm not sure anyone really fits the bill in the NFL right now that I can think of.

As far as drafting someone, I'm not sure we can develop anyone in time, even if we draft them next year, and fit them into our competitive window with our current roster. Really, our only chance is Stanzi.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 02:35 AM
I agree with the not bringing in the retread part. I'll amend my last paragraph by saying that we need to draft someone to develop. Maybe we already have with Stanzi. Who knows. But I would be content with getting a QB in a similar manner as how we acquired Winston: getting someone who really is good coming off their first contract. We would have to pay them big time, but they would still be young and they would have to be amazing. I'm not sure anyone really fits the bill in the NFL right now that I can think of.

As far as drafting someone, I'm not sure we can develop anyone in time, even if we draft them next year, and fit them into our competitive window with our current roster. Really, our only chance is Stanzi.

It's this kind of thinking that bothers me. Not that your wrong but we just never will have time if we don't do it. Give me a QB with 10 years window of opportunity than saying the team is ready than all we need is a QB. See the team won't ever be ready untill the QB is in place to build around. 30 years removed from Blackledge and we just have one playoff win to show for it with the retreads that has fallowed. As far as I'm concerned if he wore another teams collors before ours he is tainted goods. That's just my thinking.

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 02:52 AM
It's this kind of thinking that bothers me. Not that your wrong but we just never will have time if we don't do it. Give me a QB with 10 years window of opportunity than saying the team is ready than all we need is a QB. See the team won't ever be ready untill the QB is in place to build around. 30 years removed from Blackledge and we just have one playoff win to show for it with the retreads that has fallowed. As far as I'm concerned if he wore another teams collors before ours he is tainted goods. That's just my thinking.

Ya the QB ideally is the first thing put into place. My fear of a drafted QB not being ready isn't to say that we shouldn't go ahead and draft one should there be one available. The question is, would an anointed QBOTF need to come from the first round? If so, its difficult to imagine us being bad enough in the next couple of years to put us into a position to take a QB worthy of a first round pick. I don't want to reach for a guy, as I'm of the BPA school of thought.

There are no guarantees that any drafted QB, even a first rounder, will pan out, but outside of the first round the odds fall of significantly that we will find a good one.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 02:59 AM
I really think that any win with Cassel is practally detrimental to any adventure for the sake of getting us a Super Bowl. He can win 10 to 13 games with this team but we lose in the playoffs it was all for not. All it would take is backing into the playoffs be it divisional win or wild card that be all the excuse Pioli would need to bring him back another year (altho I don't think the fans would stand for it)

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 03:04 AM
I really think that any win with Cassel is practally detrimental to any adventure for the sake of getting us a Super Bowl. He can win 10 to 13 games with this team but we lose in the playoffs it was all for not. All it would take is backing into the playoffs be it divisional win or wild card that be all the excuse Pioli would need to bring him back another year (altho I don't think the fans would stand for it)

Call my thinking hopeful, but I don't think Pioli really wants to bring back Cassel, even if he does well. Exhibit A: going after Manning. They tried to cover it up by saying no one in their right mind wouldn't go after him, but that was a sign to me that they see the writing on the wall. He may still come back next year, even though Pioli doesn't want it, if they can't find any way to upgrade. I don't think Pioli has anything against benching him in favor of Stanzi if Stanzi is actually better. He still looks good because he drafted Stanzi.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 03:11 AM
I took it that when he brought Cassel here that he was a bridge untill we got some draft seasons under way and we can pull the trigger for a QB in the draft. Maybe he is just trying buy time to place Stanzi in there when he is ready. I just know ready isn't soon enough.

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 03:17 AM
It makes you wonder if Pioli is actually ahead of where he thought he would be at this point roster-wise. If he predicted he could take a QB in the first round in his first 3-4 seasons he would had to have figured we would be bad enough that we could take a good QB. Now that we're better than expected his plan is backfiring because we can't take a high first round QB.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 03:25 AM
I don't think that way was his plan too backfire. He fucked up with hireing Haley & really no excuse for him on that. Haley was a hot head that just was in over his head. I still don't get how Haley thought he could HC & OC at the same time his first year as HC. Too many debacles that set 2011 up for fail.

Cornstock
06-19-2012, 03:29 AM
Haha, off topic: Watch for some "news" article to come out in the next few days discussing exactly what we're talking about now, with the exact same points and everything. I'm getting tired of the media getting its takes off of CP.

KC Tattoo
06-19-2012, 03:52 AM
Ya but they miss the head line Cassel sucks

milkman
06-20-2012, 10:40 AM
Ya the QB ideally is the first thing put into place. My fear of a drafted QB not being ready isn't to say that we shouldn't go ahead and draft one should there be one available. The question is, would an anointed QBOTF need to come from the first round? If so, its difficult to imagine us being bad enough in the next couple of years to put us into a position to take a QB worthy of a first round pick. I don't want to reach for a guy, as I'm of the BPA school of thought.

There are no guarantees that any drafted QB, even a first rounder, will pan out, but outside of the first round the odds fall of significantly that we will find a good one.

I am of the opinion that an QB that you think has a legitimate chance of becoming a good starting NFL QB is the BPA.

I took it that when he brought Cassel here that he was a bridge untill we got some draft seasons under way and we can pull the trigger for a QB in the draft. Maybe he is just trying buy time to place Stanzi in there when he is ready. I just know ready isn't soon enough.

You don't trade a high second round pick and hand out a long term big money contract to a "bridge".

Cassel was his guy, period.
He fucked up on his first big decision.

rred
06-20-2012, 10:42 AM
Houston will be our top pass rusher by year's end.

milkman
06-20-2012, 10:53 AM
It may have been that the decision was made that Stanzi wasn't going to be played no matter what, to avoid a possible David Carr syndrome with him.

David Carr was going to be what David Carr turned out to be because the guy has never read a defense in his life.

The thinking was that he could be coached up to learn to read a defense when he got to the NFL, but that didn't happen, and it was absolutely ridiculous to draft a guy #1 overall who was known to be lacking in that area.

I don't know that Ricky Stanzi will ever be anything more than a back up in the NFL.

But I do know that he appeared to show, when he had the time, to go through his progressions.

In that one single thing, I know I'd rather go into a game with Ricky Stanzi as the back up to a quality starter than either David Carr or Matt Cassel.

If you can't make reads, you are fucking useless.