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El Jefe
06-19-2012, 06:52 AM
Specifically just in your savings or rainy day fund. I work and deal with the general public every day and it astounds me what they will tell you when you never even asked. I'm sure most people who bring up money when they aren't asked are just being braggadocios, or they are lying, but none the less I have been astounded by the people who tell me they have no money in their savings. They truly live pay check to pay check. I am not rich by any means, nor do I work a high paying job, but I live well within my means, and I believe that is the key. I have no debt outside of my wifes student loan, she just graduated with her BSN from a top nursing school in Ohio, and we were blessed to only owe 11k. So I do have that debt, and I still owe about 3k~ on my used car. Other than that I don't have any debt. I got married at 24 years of age, so it helped me squirrel money away. I have about 15k worth of savings/3k of that is my rainy day fund. I follow the Dave Ramsey idea of having 6 months of total expenses saved in your savings.

In this economy to have money saved is very good, but it seems like a lot of people don't.

So CP do you have a lot saved? You don't have to give a monetary value, but some info on how much you saved before you got into CD's or other things would be great.

BoneKrusher
06-19-2012, 06:54 AM
i don't use a bank, i have mine buried in the backyard.

loochy
06-19-2012, 06:55 AM
Well, based off of what you said, I have what would be called "an ass ton. "

No debt and about 70k (and growing every day) not counting my 401 k.

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-19-2012, 07:03 AM
Not as much as I'd like, but I have some. Although other than a couple thousand in student loans I don't have much for debt either.

Amnorix
06-19-2012, 07:03 AM
It's truly amazing how many people live paycheck to paycheck. Even that doesn't really cover all of how thin the financing resources of most Americans is.

Overall, median household net worth declined 35% to $66,740 in 2010.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/19/news/economy/net-worth-housing/index.htm


Net worth isn't just savings in the bank, it's EVERYTHING. The equity value of your house, your 401(k), your savings, even the value of your car (if they counted that, which they should have).

And that statistic is median, not average, so it's not being dragged up by the megawealthy. HALF of all households in America have a total net worth of less than $67,000 as of 2010. Ouch!

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-19-2012, 07:06 AM
Most people don't have any other choice than to live paycheck to paycheck.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 07:10 AM
I've got six months worth of expenses saved up sitting in the bank and no debt other than my house. I dream of the day my home is paid off.

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 07:12 AM
It's truly amazing how many people live paycheck to paycheck. Even that doesn't really cover all of how thin the financing resources of most Americans is.



http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/19/news/economy/net-worth-housing/index.htm


Net worth isn't just savings in the bank, it's EVERYTHING. The equity value of your house, your 401(k), your savings, even the value of your car (if they counted that, which they should have).

And that statistic is median, not average, so it's not being dragged up by the megawealthy. HALF of all households in America have a total net worth of less than $67,000 as of 2010. Ouch!

I'm dragging it down. Sorry guys.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 07:14 AM
Most people don't have any other choice than to live paycheck to paycheck.

Bullshit. People make poor decisions with their money. The average person might not be wealthy, but he can do much better than living paycheck to paycheck.

Dunit35
06-19-2012, 07:16 AM
We did have $13k, now only 4k due to buying a house.

Mike in SW-MO
06-19-2012, 07:25 AM
I had 6 months worth. After a new transmission, new radiator, new a/c clutch, and an unexpectedly expensive trip to the dermatologist, I am down to around 3 months.

But that is what emergency funds are for. Rather write a check than pay the credit card company.

Mojo Jojo
06-19-2012, 07:28 AM
No debt...own the house and cars outrightand several thousands before I touch 401k and pension. When I retire I will be able to live from just the interest.

Thig Lyfe
06-19-2012, 07:29 AM
$1,000,000,000

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 07:42 AM
$1,000,000,000

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/files/2010/11/dr-evil.jpg

Deberg_1990
06-19-2012, 07:58 AM
Bullshit. People make poor decisions with their money. The average person might not be wealthy, but he can do much better than living paycheck to paycheck.

Well its all relative depending on the person. Each persons quality of life is different.


I might make 100K a year and live paycheck to paycheck. YOu might make 50K and be able to save 15K a year. But im assuming most people making 100K+ have net worth and assets and are not just spending frivolously.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 08:05 AM
Well its all relative depending on the person. Each persons quality of life is different.


I might make 100K a year and live paycheck to paycheck. YOu might make 50K and be able to save 15K a year. But im assuming most people making 100K+ have net worth and assets and are not just spending frivolously.

Right, but maybe 10% of people should legitimately be living from paycheck. The rest who do are doing so because of poor decisions with their money.

His comment was that most people have no choice but to live paycheck to paycheck, and that just isn't the case.

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-19-2012, 08:16 AM
Right, but maybe 10% of people should legitimately be living from paycheck. The rest who do are doing so because of poor decisions with their money.

His comment was that most people have no choice but to live paycheck to paycheck, and that just isn't the case.
Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. Should have said "many" instead of "most". There are plenty of people who are just scraping by. I couldn't even dream of having a savings account through my 20s and well into my 30s, and it wasn't because we were living beyond our means. Hell I've only had one vehicle in my life that was less than 10 years old when I bought it.

The Bad Guy
06-19-2012, 08:17 AM
Right, but maybe 10% of people should legitimately be living from paycheck. The rest who do are doing so because of poor decisions with their money.

His comment was that most people have no choice but to live paycheck to paycheck, and that just isn't the case.

We sure do have a ton of financial analysts on this board.

BoneKrusher
06-19-2012, 08:20 AM
We sure do have a ton of financial analysts on this board.

yeah, it's like having our own Quicken Loans.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 08:21 AM
We sure do have a ton of financial analysts on this board.

Yes we do.

Mr. Laz
06-19-2012, 08:27 AM
Right, but maybe 10% of people should legitimately be living from paycheck. The rest who do are doing so because of poor decisions with their money.

His comment was that most people have no choice but to live paycheck to paycheck, and that just isn't the case.
so we can assume that you know all these people personally?

Count Zarth
06-19-2012, 08:28 AM
What's your favorite stock, bros?

DaFace
06-19-2012, 08:33 AM
What's your favorite stock, bros?

Facebook all the way. :D

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 08:36 AM
so we can assume that you know all these people personally?

That would be a stupid assumption. I haven't been inside every American's kitchen, but I can tell you that most people have a sink in theirs. Sometimes simply not being dumb looks like magic to idiots.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 08:37 AM
Bullshit. People make poor decisions with their money. The average person might not be wealthy, but he can do much better than living paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah because every worker at any retail store who depends on that as their income, source of savings, expenses, and general living money has lots of extra money to throw away :rolleyes:

I am sure the people who make their living at Target or Home Depot (that aren't managers) while trying to raise kids and pay bills would like to punch you in the face.

Count Zarth
06-19-2012, 08:39 AM
Facebook all the way. :D

Invest in WPI today.

Dr. Facebook Fever
06-19-2012, 08:43 AM
None of it is any of your damn business. I'm posting anyway just to say that.

DaFace
06-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Well, based off of what you said, I have what would be called "an ass ton. "

No debt and about 70k (and growing every day) not counting my 401 k.

I hope that's 70k that's making you money at least rather than sitting in a 0.1% savings account.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Yeah because every worker at any retail store who depends on that as their income, source of savings, expenses, and general living money has lots of extra money to throw away :rolleyes:

I am sure the people who make their living at Target or Home Depot (that aren't managers) while trying to raise kids and pay bills would like to punch you in the face.

Most people don't work at Target. The median household income in the US is $51,413 per year.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 08:51 AM
Most people don't work at Target. The median household income in the US is $51,413 per year.

If you can raise a family on a gross of $51,413 and still be comfortable and have savings, a lot of people would like to know the secret. It's easy to say it's possible, but try actually doing it.

Buehler445
06-19-2012, 08:53 AM
Facebook all the way. :D

ROFL

I had no idea it had taken in the pants so hard. I guess I need to pay attention.


IT'S THE NEXT GOOGLE ROFL

I have a shitton, but it is mostly operating expenses for my business. It's about to go bye-bye.

DaFace
06-19-2012, 08:55 AM
ROFL

I had no idea it had taken in the pants so hard. I guess I need to pay attention.


IT'S THE NEXT GOOGLE ROFL

I have a shitton, but it is mostly operating expenses for my business. It's about to go bye-bye.

To be fair, it's probably a reasonable investment at this point. It was just WAY overvalued out of the gate.

Mr. Laz
06-19-2012, 08:56 AM
no serious debt right now
around 100k in various states of liquidity

boogblaster
06-19-2012, 08:57 AM
daughter just outta college .. son with three boys .. my rainy-day sum is gone .....

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 08:57 AM
If you can raise a family on a gross of $51,413 and still be comfortable and have savings, a lot of people would like to know the secret. It's easy to say it's possible, but try actually doing it.

I didn't say they could all live comfortably. I said that most don't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Most people don't work at Target. The median household income in the US is $51,413 per year.

Just combine Target with every other retailer and grocery store. Those places employ a lot of people and those people are going to have a tough time not living paycheck to paycheck. Obviously there are lots of people who are stupid with money, but average income is not a number that takes into account everything else people have to deal with or even how long they have been making that money. The people who can legitamitely say they have to live paycheck to paycheck is certainly more than 10%.

Fish
06-19-2012, 08:59 AM
Everybody is an expert with regards to other people's money....

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 09:00 AM
I didn't say they could all live comfortably. I said that most don't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

Wouldn't not living paycheck to paycheck mean you are living comfortably for most people.

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 09:01 AM
I hope that's 70k that's making you money at least rather than sitting in a 0.1% savings account.

Still not great, but AmTrust Direct internet MMA pays 1.15% APY.

Count Zarth
06-19-2012, 09:03 AM
You can get 5 to 8 percent interest with online banks. Look into it.

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 09:03 AM
You can get 5 to 8 percent interest with online banks. Look into it.

:BS:

FDIC?

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:07 AM
Wouldn't not living paycheck to paycheck mean you are living comfortably for most people.

Not if you've had to cut out cable, cell phones, etc. in order to build up a rainy day fund of a couple grand. I would call that making sacrifices in order to get ahead.

JD10367
06-19-2012, 09:11 AM
No debt, no equity, 10k cash, 50k stocks, so paycheck-to-paycheck works fine. Cars are paid for, we rent, no kids, so if things go south we don't get dragged down.

Having said that, I understand the OP's inference. Most people could probably save money. My wife and I could save money, instead of using it all. On the other hand, savings rates suck balls, and we live well; we go out to eat, we go to the casino, we go on cruises. We could easily be saving all our money and living frugally and having less fun, and then get hit by a truck and die. I'd rather enjoy the money a bit more now.

Earthling
06-19-2012, 09:15 AM
The median household income in the US is $51,413 per year.

I wonder how much lower that figure would be if you eliminated the top 10% of that income bracket. I would guess it would be significant. ??

Bearcat
06-19-2012, 09:16 AM
Yeah because every worker at any retail store who depends on that as their income, source of savings, expenses, and general living money has lots of extra money to throw away :rolleyes:

I am sure the people who make their living at Target or Home Depot (that aren't managers) while trying to raise kids and pay bills would like to punch you in the face.

Here's an idea... don't have kids if you can't afford them? :shrug: (and yeah, I realize it's not always planned)

I was saving money every month when I was making $27,000/yr (~$12.50/hr) out of college, and at that time I knew people making twice that much who constantly complained about being in debt (some who were smart enough to realize they made bad decisions and fix the problem). I wasn't saving a lot of money, but I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck.

Sure, if you're making $9-10/hr at Target, you won't be saving much if at all, but there are a whole lot of people making $30k+ (in KC terms) who have no idea how to manage their money.

Mr. Laz
06-19-2012, 09:17 AM
You can get 5 to 8 percent interest with online banks. Look into it.
:spock:


from a Saudi sheikh?

Valiant
06-19-2012, 09:18 AM
Well its all relative depending on the person. Each persons quality of life is different.


I might make 100K a year and live paycheck to paycheck. YOu might make 50K and be able to save 15K a year. But im assuming most people making 100K+ have net worth and assets and are not just spending frivolously.

I think he means the people that say they live paycheck to paycheck that have a nice car with rims and sound system/ 200.00 cable and internet/iphone/ 360 or ps3 with new games each/ and enough money for a shit ton drinks/smokes or weed each week.

Just by cutting back you can create a good savings pool. And it is not to collect and live off interest, it is for oh'shit moments.

Trust me, I grew up poor. You can spend/save wisely or say its not your fault and spend recklessly and blame others.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:19 AM
I wonder how much lower that figure would be if you eliminated the top 10% of that income bracket. I would guess it would be significant. ??

Median means middle, so it doesn't get skewed by the extremes.

If half of the households make more than you, and half of them make less, you earn 54k.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 09:23 AM
Here's an idea... don't have kids if you can't afford them? :shrug: (and yeah, I realize it's not always planned)

I was saving money every month when I was making $27,000/yr (~$12.50/hr) out of college, and at that time I knew people making twice that much who constantly complained about being in debt (some who were smart enough to realize they made bad decisions and fix the problem). I wasn't saving a lot of money, but I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck.

Sure, if you're making $9-10/hr at Target, you won't be saving much if at all, but there are a whole lot of people making $30k+ (in KC terms) who have no idea how to manage their money.

You are right I suppose. People who are less fortunate to have a well paying job should not get the experience and pleasure that comes from starting a family.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 09:25 AM
The bigger question is (individually): How much money do you need to retire?

Deberg_1990
06-19-2012, 09:29 AM
Where is R8ders when we need him?

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:30 AM
Here's an idea... don't have kids if you can't afford them? :shrug: (and yeah, I realize it's not always planned)

I was saving money every month when I was making $27,000/yr (~$12.50/hr) out of college, and at that time I knew people making twice that much who constantly complained about being in debt (some who were smart enough to realize they made bad decisions and fix the problem). I wasn't saving a lot of money, but I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck.

Sure, if you're making $9-10/hr at Target, you won't be saving much if at all, but there are a whole lot of people making $30k+ (in KC terms) who have no idea how to manage their money.
Yep. I made 32k right out of college, went out all the time, and banked at least a few hundred bucks a month. I literally never balanced my checkbook because I wasn't in any danger of bottoming out. I had an old but reliable car, no debt, and a roommate. $600 per month took care of my essentials, and that was in a really nice apartment in Leawood just ten years ago.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Median means middle, so it doesn't get skewed by the extremes.

If half of the households make more than you, and half of them make less, you earn 54k.

:spock:

Run these numbers for example and get back to me. 5 incomes at 25K, 5 at 50K, 8 at 60K, and 2 at 200K. Calcuate the average for all 20 then calculate the average while eliminating the top 10% and one more eliminating the bottom 10%.

BigCatDaddy
06-19-2012, 09:35 AM
Why the hell would anyone keep a lot of money in a bank right now?

Earthling
06-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Median means middle, so it doesn't get skewed by the extremes.

If half of the households make more than you, and half of them make less, you earn 54k.

I understand that, however, I think that there is such a disparity between the upper 10% and the rest of our country that it does indeed skew it. If the upper 10% made 50% of all our wealth wouldn't that be a skewed statistic after you divided the total number of households into it?

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 09:36 AM
I didn't say they could all live comfortably. I said that most don't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

IMHO living comfortably IS not living paycheck to paycheck.

Bearcat
06-19-2012, 09:36 AM
You are right I suppose. People who are less fortunate to have a well paying job should not get the experience and pleasure that comes from starting a family.

That wasn't the point... if you had said "people who make a living at Target while trying to stay entertained with the latest ps3 and xbox games," I would have said the same thing about not buying consoles and games when they can't afford it.

I don't care what people do with their money, but it doesn't make sense to say someone making $12/hr while raising a kid (they planned for) is legitimately living paycheck to paycheck, because they simply aren't... regardless of how awesome kids are, they land in the group of people who make bad choices with their money.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 09:37 AM
You can get 5 to 8 percent interest with online banks. Look into it.

yeah, in 2005. Look into it.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 09:39 AM
Yep. I made 32k right out of college, went out all the time, and banked at least a few hundred bucks a month. I literally never balanced my checkbook because I wasn't in any danger of bottoming out. I had an old but reliable car, no debt, and a roommate. $600 per month took care of my essentials, and that was in a really nice apartment in Leawood just ten years ago.

Are you married? have kids?

Buehler445
06-19-2012, 09:40 AM
The bigger question is (individually): How much money do you need to retire?

ROFL

I'm fairly certain I'm going to die before retirement age.

And if I live that long, all of what I need because all you old fuckers are going to use up my social security.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 09:43 AM
That wasn't the point... if you had said "people who make a living at Target while trying to stay entertained with the latest ps3 and xbox games," I would have said the same thing about not buying consoles and games when they can't afford it.

I don't care what people do with their money, but it doesn't make sense to say someone making $12/hr while raising a kid (they planned for) is legitimately living paycheck to paycheck, because they simply aren't... regardless of how awesome kids are, they land in the group of people who make bad choices with their money.

Maybe they land in a group in which money is not the most important thing to them. And perhaps they don't think having a kid is making a bad choice with their money. You may think so but that doesn't mean they would. And the X-box/PS3 thing is completely different.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 09:43 AM
The bigger question is (individually): How much money do you need to retire?

A LOT more than I'm on track to have unfortunately.

A scary statistic: only 49% of American's have any retirement savings.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:45 AM
:spock:

Run these numbers for example and get back to me. 5 incomes at 25K, 5 at 50K, 8 at 60K, and 2 at 200K. Calcuate the average for all 20 then calculate the average while eliminating the top 10% and one more eliminating the bottom 10%.

I understand that, however, I think that there is such a disparity between the upper 10% and the rest of our country that it does indeed skew it. If the upper 10% made 50% of all our wealth wouldn't that be a skewed statistic after you divided the total number of households into it?

Median is not the same as average.

The average (or mean) of $20 million, $20k, and $10k is $6.7 million.

The median of those figures is $20k.

Reerun_KC
06-19-2012, 09:45 AM
Not enough. Daughter in college, son going to college in 3 years. I am paying for my wifes and I's college bills also...

Hopefully when we sell this company in 3-5 years it wont make a difference.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 09:46 AM
A LOT more than I'm on track to have unfortunately.

A scary statistic: only 49% of American's have any retirement savings.

Fortunately, I bet big into my business and it has paid off. I will be able to retire within the next 3 years. I'll be 48-49 years old at that time. I won't retire, but I will have it put away if I want it.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:50 AM
Are you married? have kids?

Yes and yes

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 09:52 AM
Yes and yes

Then you know living a bachelor life and living life with a family are entirely different things.

Talking about how you made $32k and lived well has zero bearing on the topic at hand.

Dartgod
06-19-2012, 09:53 AM
About a buck fiddy.

Xanathol
06-19-2012, 09:54 AM
Right, but maybe 10% of people should legitimately be living from paycheck. The rest who do are doing so because of poor decisions with their money.

His comment was that most people have no choice but to live paycheck to paycheck, and that just isn't the case.

Min wage is $7.25 / hour, or $15,080 / year working 40 hour work weeks. By month, that is $1,256 ( since you'd be considered in poverty, we won't bother with taxes ). If you eat for $3 / day ( raman noodles + something ), that's ~$90 there. Depending on where you live, the cheapest rent could be anywhere but let's say $500-$800 / month, leaving our grand total around $366-$666. Add in water & electricity and that's a minimum around $180 / month, now putting us at $186-$486. Health insurance? Would take all of that & then some. Car insurance & gas? Bare min $30 / month and $45 per tank ( I get 27 mpg and fill up each week for a 20 mile commute - that's $180 right there ). Phone? Bare min around another $30. If you're lucky, you've got around $246 in your pocket - hope you don't need clothes, want to watch a movie ( or have a date in general ), etc.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm - 6% of all hourly workers make min wage or less.

I'm a conservative through & through, I make considerably more than the median, but even I have to say that to claim only 10% live paycheck to paycheck and the rest just make 'poor decisions' is ill-informed.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 09:54 AM
Median is not the same as average.

The average (or mean) of $20 million, $20k, and $10k is $6.7 million.

The median of those figures is $20k.

My bad I misread thinking you said mean. Median is an even more worthless number to evaluate one persons income against a populations. So if you fall in that median area and are on either side of it within 15%, either way you are in decent shape. What about the bottom third? Tough luck I guess. At least they can be comfortable knowing that a third of the country is where they are or are in a worst position.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:55 AM
Then you know living a bachelor life and living life with a family are entirely different things.

Talking about how you made $32k and lived well has zero bearing on the topic at hand.

So single people don't count? I don't understand your point. There are lots of single people.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 09:57 AM
Min wage is $7.25 / hour, or $15,080 / year working 40 hour work weeks. By month, that is $1,256 ( since you'd be considered in poverty, we won't bother with taxes ). If you eat for $3 / day ( raman noodles + something ), that's ~$90 there. Depending on where you live, the cheapest rent could be anywhere but let's say $500-$800 / month, leaving our grand total around $366-$666. Add in water & electricity and that's a minimum around $180 / month, now putting us at $186-$486. Health insurance? Would take all of that & then some. Car insurance & gas? Bare min $30 / month and $45 per tank ( I get 27 mpg and fill up each week for a 20 mile commute - that's $180 right there ). Phone? Bare min around another $30. If you're lucky, you've got around $246 in your pocket - hope you don't need clothes, want to watch a movie ( or have a date in general ), etc.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm - 6% of all hourly workers make min wage or less.

I'm a conservative through & through, I make considerably more than the median, but even I have to say that to claim only 10% live paycheck to paycheck and the rest just make 'poor decisions' is ill-informed.

I agree that people making minimum wage are going to live from paycheck to paycheck if they don't have a spouse who works.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 10:00 AM
So single people don't count? I don't understand your point. There are lots of single people.

My point is that for the most part, those living paycheck to paycheck would be families, or at least married people. A single person typically has more disposable income as they typically lead a lifestyle more accomodating to a wide range of incomes. You gave the example of how making $32k out of school (and assumingly single) you lived well. Well, yeah, $32k 10 years ago had a fair bit more buying power, and you were single.

In relation to the median household income, a single person making $54k will be living INFINITELY better than a family making the same.

Earthling
06-19-2012, 10:02 AM
Median is not the same as average.

The average (or mean) of $20 million, $20k, and $10k is $6.7 million.

The median of those figures is $20k.

Thank you Saul Good. You are exactly right and I was wrong in my thinking of what the definition of median actually was. I personally love getting misconceptions kicked out of my head. :clap::clap:

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 10:07 AM
My point is that for the most part, those living paycheck to paycheck would be families, or at least married people. A single person typically has more disposable income as they typically lead a lifestyle more accomodating to a wide range of incomes. You gave the example of how making $32k out of school (and assumingly single) you lived well. Well, yeah, $32k 10 years ago had a fair bit more buying power, and you were single.

In relation to the median household income, a single person making $54k will be living INFINITELY better than a family making the same.

So your point about it having no bearing on the conversation was incorrect because there are plenty of single people that factor into the median household figure. When you eliminate singles, it goes up considerably because you have multiple income households.

Even today, if I had never received a raise and my wife only made minimum wage, that would come to about 50k per year. You can get by on that in this country without living paycheck to paycheck if you are smart with your money.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 10:10 AM
Thank you Saul Good. You are exactly right and I was wrong in my thinking of what the definition of median actually was. I personally love getting misconceptions kicked out of my head. :clap::clap:

Word

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 10:10 AM
The kid discussion is interesting, and I think it all comes down to basic economics.

I've gotten a few snide comments from relatives over the years about the fact that I like to travel. Apparently it's equated to being rich in some people's minds, so I've gotten some guff about being "the rich one in the family" and they aren't particularly friendly comments, which I don't really appreciate.

My response back in one case was, "We all spend our money on what pleasures us. In my case, I get more pleasure from traveling than I would have gotten from having kids. You made the opposite choice, and I presume that you get a lot of pleasure from your children. My trips cost a lot less than your children, and we're each spending our money how we prefer." The person never made the connection that, hey, if you're not raising children you have more money to do other things.

I recognize of course that some children are unplanned, but that's not the case with anyone in my clan. Everyone just got married and had kids. I hope they're all happy about that, but I wish that more people would think hard about having children before they do so. It's something that our society tends to expect, so I think a lot of people have kids because "that's what you do" instead of being what's in their own best interest.

I think having kids would have brought me pleasure, and am happy for people who love being parents. But I fear that tradition produces as many children as does the desire to be parents. In my case, the desire to live other aspects of my life more fully outweighed the desire to devote my life to being a good parent. (And I'll be honest - I would've been a terrible parent.)

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 10:12 AM
Our DTI was scary a few months back, (thanks to Gonzo getting laid off 2 years ago). But we're rebounding pretty well thanks to a smart move we made w/ our mortgage and getting health insurance.

We don't have much in our savings account, but that will change after we pay off a few high interest debts. Onward and upward! :thumb:

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 10:14 AM
So your point about it having no bearing on the conversation was incorrect because there are plenty of single people that factor into the median household figure. When you eliminate singles, it goes up considerably because you have multiple income households.

Even today, if I had never received a raise and my wife only made minimum wage, that would come to about 50k per year. You can get by on that in this country without living paycheck to paycheck if you are smart with your money.

Debatable. You're probably living paycheck to paycheck in NYC at that level. But in general it's true. :evil:

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 10:17 AM
Debatable. You're probably living paycheck to paycheck in NYC at that level. But in general it's true. :evil:

Sure. Of course you're trying to raise a family on $50k, I would submit that choosing to live in NYC is a poor financial decision.

KCUnited
06-19-2012, 10:21 AM
When asked why I don't have kids, I always respond that they've never been in the budget.

gblowfish
06-19-2012, 10:27 AM
American Century stole over half of my 401K in 2001.

Bearcat
06-19-2012, 10:27 AM
Maybe they land in a group in which money is not the most important thing to them. And perhaps they don't think having a kid is making a bad choice with their money. You may think so but that doesn't mean they would. And the X-box/PS3 thing is completely different.

Eh, like I said, I don't care what other people do with their money. I understand your point... of course they (at least should) value their kids more than money.

Financially speaking though, it still doesn't make it a good decision if you aren't able to save any money for the kids getting sick, the car breaking down, etc. I'm sure a lot of people don't think having a kid is making a bad choice with their money, because kids > money and they don't really think about the financial impact.

My parents had 2 kids and couldn't save any money for a long time... they got by, but the risks were still there because they could barely afford it. Do I think it was a bad decision overall? No... being born was a big day for me. Do I think it was a bad financial decision? Absolutely, and they would probably tell you the same thing.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 10:29 AM
The kid discussion is interesting, and I think it all comes down to basic economics.

I've gotten a few snide comments from relatives over the years about the fact that I like to travel. Apparently it's equated to being rich in some people's minds, so I've gotten some guff about being "the rich one in the family" and they aren't particularly friendly comments, which I don't really appreciate.

My response back in one case was, "We all spend our money on what pleasures us. In my case, I get more pleasure from traveling than I would have gotten from having kids. You made the opposite choice, and I presume that you get a lot of pleasure from your children. My trips cost a lot less than your children, and we're each spending our money how we prefer." The person never made the connection that, hey, if you're not raising children you have more money to do other things.

I recognize of course that some children are unplanned, but that's not the case with anyone in my clan. Everyone just got married and had kids. I hope they're all happy about that, but I wish that more people would think hard about having children before they do so. It's something that our society tends to expect, so I think a lot of people have kids because "that's what you do" instead of being what's in their own best interest.

I think having kids would have brought me pleasure, and am happy for people who love being parents. But I fear that tradition produces as many children as does the desire to be parents. In my case, the desire to live other aspects of my life more fully outweighed the desire to devote my life to being a good parent. (And I'll be honest - I would've been a terrible parent.)

Not knowing you personally, but knowing enough about you and your on-line persona, I'd bet against that. I think you'd be as diligent and caring a parent as you are a businessman and enthusiast of other hobbies.

Buehler445
06-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Min wage is $7.25 / hour, or $15,080 / year working 40 hour work weeks. By month, that is $1,256 ( since you'd be considered in poverty, we won't bother with taxes ). If you eat for $3 / day ( raman noodles + something ), that's ~$90 there. Depending on where you live, the cheapest rent could be anywhere but let's say $500-$800 / month, leaving our grand total around $366-$666. Add in water & electricity and that's a minimum around $180 / month, now putting us at $186-$486. Health insurance? Would take all of that & then some. Car insurance & gas? Bare min $30 / month and $45 per tank ( I get 27 mpg and fill up each week for a 20 mile commute - that's $180 right there ). Phone? Bare min around another $30. If you're lucky, you've got around $246 in your pocket - hope you don't need clothes, want to watch a movie ( or have a date in general ), etc.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm - 6% of all hourly workers make min wage or less.

I'm a conservative through & through, I make considerably more than the median, but even I have to say that to claim only 10% live paycheck to paycheck and the rest just make 'poor decisions' is ill-informed.

Meh. I don't know. If the person in question has a brain in their skull, they could be getting subsidized housing, probably some EITC, and even some subsidized utilities. I don't know about welfare, but I'd imagine they'd be eligable at ~12K/year.

Yeah. Minimum wage is tough, but if the person is single (you didn't mention spouse or kids). They should have all the time in the world to get ANOTHER job. Reality is that they are comfortable where they are in life or at least unwilling to change it to get better.

Mosbonian
06-19-2012, 10:41 AM
Eh, like I said, I don't care what other people do with their money. I understand your point... of course they (at least should) value their kids more than money.

Financially speaking though, it still doesn't make it a good decision if you aren't able to save any money for the kids getting sick, the car breaking down, etc. I'm sure a lot of people don't think having a kid is making a bad choice with their money, because kids > money and they don't really think about the financial impact.

My parents had 2 kids and couldn't save any money for a long time... they got by, but the risks were still there because they could barely afford it. Do I think it was a bad decision overall? No... being born was a big day for me. Do I think it was a bad financial decision? Absolutely, and they would probably tell you the same thing.

Part of the problem with that logic is you can't really estimate what might costs you are going to have with kids.....some kids go thru life with nothing more than a scratch on their hand and cost very little comparatively outside the normal expenses.

But how do you account for the unseen? Can you plan out major (and I mean real major) illnesses? What about ongoing issues like Autism Spectrum Disorders, Muscular Dystrophy, Cancer, Heart problems?

If we base our decisions on having children only on what we know, then the world would be mighty small.

Bearcat
06-19-2012, 10:41 AM
The kid discussion is interesting, and I think it all comes down to basic economics.

I've gotten a few snide comments from relatives over the years about the fact that I like to travel. Apparently it's equated to being rich in some people's minds, so I've gotten some guff about being "the rich one in the family" and they aren't particularly friendly comments, which I don't really appreciate.

My response back in one case was, "We all spend our money on what pleasures us. In my case, I get more pleasure from traveling than I would have gotten from having kids. You made the opposite choice, and I presume that you get a lot of pleasure from your children. My trips cost a lot less than your children, and we're each spending our money how we prefer." The person never made the connection that, hey, if you're not raising children you have more money to do other things.

I recognize of course that some children are unplanned, but that's not the case with anyone in my clan. Everyone just got married and had kids. I hope they're all happy about that, but I wish that more people would think hard about having children before they do so. It's something that our society tends to expect, so I think a lot of people have kids because "that's what you do" instead of being what's in their own best interest.

I think having kids would have brought me pleasure, and am happy for people who love being parents. But I fear that tradition produces as many children as does the desire to be parents. In my case, the desire to live other aspects of my life more fully outweighed the desire to devote my life to being a good parent. (And I'll be honest - I would've been a terrible parent.)

Yep... it's one of the first questions I'm asked from people I've just met or family I haven't seen in a while, and they think it's weird that I don't have kids yet (I have literally 50-some cousins from 10 aunts/uncles on one side of the family though, so that might have something to do with it...).

The mentality that having kids is just something you do might be slowly changing though... or at least the timing of it. I know a lot of people my age who waited until their mid-late 20s to start having kids, since both went to college and wanted focus on a career for a few years.

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 10:42 AM
Sure. Of course you're trying to raise a family on $50k, I would submit that choosing to live in NYC is a poor financial decision.

touche.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 10:46 AM
Not knowing you personally, but knowing enough about you and your on-line persona, I'd bet against that. I think you'd be as diligent and caring a parent as you are a businessman and enthusiast of other hobbies.

Thanks. I would've certainly tried, and the kid(s) would've had a good environment, but I also recognize that I'm short on some of the basic requirements of parenting like sympathy and patience and open affection. I'm particularly uncomfortable with that whole "showing open affection towards other humans" part even when it's present, as my wife would probably attest.

Caseyguyrr
06-19-2012, 10:46 AM
i'm a deputy sheriff in rural missouri, i have $900 to my name after the academy and have about $20,000 in student debt, not off to a good start

Mosbonian
06-19-2012, 10:46 AM
The problem with threads like this is those who believe they have a handle on everything and can pinpoint why people live like they do.

I was like most.....pointed a finger of judgement at those who didn't follow the normal convention of living within their means, saving for the rainy day, etc....

Quite frankly even the "6 months of savings" rule is terribly outdated and ill-informed. How many of you know someone who has been looking for a job for over a year? How many have had more than one major financial crisis hit them at the same time.

Some of you might think differently if you have someone you knew, who lived by all the right rules, but faced hardships beyond belief....who then decided there was only one way out.

You'd be less judgemental.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 10:49 AM
i'm a deputy sheriff in rural missouri, i have $900 to my name after the academy and have about $20,000 in student debt, not off to a good start

Well, sure, but when you carry a gun you can fix that pretty quickly. :D

BWillie
06-19-2012, 10:49 AM
27k, only keep that much for my poker bankroll though

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 10:52 AM
The problem with threads like this is those who believe they have a handle on everything and can pinpoint why people live like they do.

I was like most.....pointed a finger of judgement at those who didn't follow the normal convention of living within their means, saving for the rainy day, etc....

Quite frankly even the "6 months of savings" rule is terribly outdated and ill-informed. How many of you know someone who has been looking for a job for over a year? How many have had more than one major financial crisis hit them at the same time.

Some of you might think differently if you have someone you knew, who lived by all the right rules, but faced hardships beyond belief....who then decided there was only one way out.

You'd be less judgemental.

This is a good point. I have a pretty decent financial position in part because I've generally made good decisions, but also because I've had the luck to avoid having a serious illness, got scholarships for my entire college career, and haven't had a crazy person break into my house and get killed by that big Nepalese gurkha knife that I keep for protection.

Deberg_1990
06-19-2012, 10:59 AM
The kid discussion is interesting, and I think it all comes down to basic economics.

I've gotten a few snide comments from relatives over the years about the fact that I like to travel. Apparently it's equated to being rich in some people's minds, so I've gotten some guff about being "the rich one in the family" and they aren't particularly friendly comments, which I don't really appreciate.

My response back in one case was, "We all spend our money on what pleasures us. In my case, I get more pleasure from traveling than I would have gotten from having kids. You made the opposite choice, and I presume that you get a lot of pleasure from your children. My trips cost a lot less than your children, and we're each spending our money how we prefer." The person never made the connection that, hey, if you're not raising children you have more money to do other things.

I recognize of course that some children are unplanned, but that's not the case with anyone in my clan. Everyone just got married and had kids. I hope they're all happy about that, but I wish that more people would think hard about having children before they do so. It's something that our society tends to expect, so I think a lot of people have kids because "that's what you do" instead of being what's in their own best interest.

I think having kids would have brought me pleasure, and am happy for people who love being parents. But I fear that tradition produces as many children as does the desire to be parents. In my case, the desire to live other aspects of my life more fully outweighed the desire to devote my life to being a good parent. (And I'll be honest - I would've been a terrible parent.)


Id argue that you would have been just as happy had you had kids and not traveled. Probably even more so.

Its just something you wont understand until you actually have a kid.

Too each his own, and I would never judge of course, but sometimes small pleasures are the best. : )

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 11:07 AM
Sure. Of course you're trying to raise a family on $50k, I would submit that choosing to live in NYC is a poor financial decision.

life is just that simple in Saul Good's world. Everyone, take notes....

Mr. Laz
06-19-2012, 11:08 AM
The problem with threads like this is those who believe they have a handle on everything and can pinpoint why people live like they do.

I was like most.....pointed a finger of judgement at those who didn't follow the normal convention of living within their means, saving for the rainy day, etc....

Quite frankly even the "6 months of savings" rule is terribly outdated and ill-informed. How many of you know someone who has been looking for a job for over a year? How many have had more than one major financial crisis hit them at the same time.

Some of you might think differently if you have someone you knew, who lived by all the right rules, but faced hardships beyond belief....who then decided there was only one way out.

You'd be less judgemental.
yep

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 11:08 AM
Debatable. You're probably living paycheck to paycheck in NYC at that level. But in general it's true. :evil:

I remember 1999 when I graduated, I was making $39k in Topeka, which was several thousand above the average starting wage for grads from our program. A friend had graduated and went to San Francisco. He thought he was hot shit making $70k. Then he found out he needed to have 2 roommates to afford decent housing.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 11:10 AM
Id argue that you would have been just as happy had you had kids and not traveled. Probably even more so.

Its just something you wont understand until you actually have a kid.

Too each his own, and I would never judge of course, but sometimes small pleasures are the best. : )

Yeah, I've heard people say that being a parent changes a person, so I can't discount that. Of course, it would've helped that my kids would've become Nobel prize winners after their professional football and supermodel careers ended. I probably wouldn't see them as much as I'd like due to their many charitable endeavors, but at the same time I'd enjoy reading the annual reports of the various leading-edge businesses that they owned.

BWillie
06-19-2012, 11:11 AM
I used to think that someday I was going to have kids. But every day that % goes down more and more. I see friends of mine start to have kids, other family members start to have kids, and everything they dreamed of or wanted to do in their life is now gone. They act like they are so unhappy and complain all the time. They have financial hardships because of it. They literally can't do anything fun anymore. But there are some people that are the happiest they could possibly be that way, to each their own. Everyday I am happier and happier I have no kids and I thought the opposite would happen as I got older.

allen_kcCard
06-19-2012, 11:12 AM
I definately live paycheck to paycheck right now, but we are paying off a lot of really fucking stupid debt and will be looking a lot better soon hopefully. We were really bad with credit cards in and right after college and ahve gone to something like 50k debt in those alone to having a few thousand in the last two of them that aren't paid off yet, and those bastards were all like 30% interest. We shove nearly every extra bit we can into paying those off, and should have them gone within the next year...which has been about a 6-7 year project.

After those, we have 2 car payments, mortgage, 2 student loans, and some newer debt at nebrasa furntiture mart (I guess that would be another credit card actually) which is 0% and will positively be paid off before we pay any interest on it.

I have my 401k setup and growing, and my wife has a pension in her job, so we should be ok as far as that goes, and we will have a very comfortable amount of excess income to build up saving as soon as we get these debts, namely the 30% credit cards gone.

So long as I can keep my marriage going right that is, but I won't MTG it up too much on that front. (no offense to MTG of course, feeling your pain)

Long story short, we have been in shitty shape for what the OP talks on, but the light is getting brighter.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 11:14 AM
I used to think that someday I was going to have kids. But every day that % goes down more and more. I see friends of mine start to have kids, other family members start to have kids, and everything they dreamed of or wanted to do in their life is now gone. They act like they are so unhappy and complain all the time. They have financial hardships because of it. They literally can't do anything fun anymore. But there are some people that are the happiest they could possibly be that way, to each their own. Everyday I am happier and happier I have no kids and I thought the opposite would happen as I got older.

I used to never think I'd want kids....then we had one, and it really has been amazing. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I am in no hurry to have #2 though, mostly for financial reasons and enjoying our son to the fullest.

ChiefRocka
06-19-2012, 11:36 AM
"I take care of my kids" - Rock

My savings account isn't huge but I make enough to where my wife can stay home and raise our kids and to me that is priceless.

Hog Farmer
06-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Specifically just in your savings or rainy day fund. I work and deal with the general public every day and it astounds me what they will tell you when you never even asked. I'm sure most people who bring up money when they aren't asked are just being braggadocios, or they are lying, but none the less I have been astounded by the people who tell me they have no money in their savings. They truly live pay check to pay check. I am not rich by any means, nor do I work a high paying job, but I live well within my means, and I believe that is the key. I have no debt outside of my wifes student loan, she just graduated with her BSN from a top nursing school in Ohio, and we were blessed to only owe 11k. So I do have that debt, and I still owe about 3k~ on my used car. Other than that I don't have any debt. I got married at 24 years of age, so it helped me squirrel money away. I have about 15k worth of savings/3k of that is my rainy day fund. I follow the Dave Ramsey idea of having 6 months of total expenses saved in your savings.

In this economy to have money saved is very good, but it seems like a lot of people don't.

So CP do you have a lot saved? You don't have to give a monetary value, but some info on how much you saved before you got into CD's or other things would be great.

I don't have any debt either , other than the 16 mortgages on my rental property.

-King-
06-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Sure. Of course you're trying to raise a family on $50k, I would submit that choosing to live in NYC is a poor financial decision.

I don't think that's fair. Most people don't choose where they live per se. If you are born in Kansas City, most likely that's where you're going to live the rest of your life. Most people that make 50k in NYC didn't exactly "choose" to live there.

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 11:48 AM
I don't think that's fair. Most people don't choose where they live per se. If you are born in Kansas City, most likely that's where you're going to live the rest of your life. Most people that make 50k in NYC didn't exactly "choose" to live there.

But they're not forced to. They're generally choosing to live there due to familial issues, familiarity, or lack of wanderlust. No one forces them to continue to live there and it is much issue to move somewhere else today then it was in 1950 (or even 1990 for that matter).

ReynardMuldrake
06-19-2012, 11:52 AM
:spock:

Run these numbers for example and get back to me. 5 incomes at 25K, 5 at 50K, 8 at 60K, and 2 at 200K. Calcuate the average for all 20 then calculate the average while eliminating the top 10% and one more eliminating the bottom 10%.

1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 25
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 50
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 60
19. 200
20. 200

Median = 55

1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 25
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 50
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 60
19. 200

Median = 50

1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 50
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 60
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 200
19. 200

Median = 60


Yeah, huge difference there. I see your point.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 11:57 AM
"I take care of my kids" - Rock

My savings account isn't huge but I make enough to where my wife can stay home and raise our kids and to me that is priceless.

Truer words.....

-King-
06-19-2012, 12:00 PM
But they're not forced to. They're generally choosing to live there due to familial issues, familiarity, or lack of wanderlust. No one forces them to continue to live there and it is much issue to move somewhere else today then it was in 1950 (or even 1990 for that matter).

Expecting someone to move away from a city they've lived in all their lives is unrealistic. Just because no one forces them to stay doesn't mean that it would be easy for them to move.

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 12:02 PM
Expecting someone to move away from a city they've lived in all their lives is unrealistic. Just because no one forces them to stay doesn't mean that it would be easy for them to move.

Who said it was easy? Sometimes you have to do something bold to help your family.

I'm not saying it's the way it should be. I'm saying that's the reality of how life is.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 12:03 PM
Expecting someone to move away from a city they've lived in all their lives is unrealistic. Just because no one forces them to stay doesn't mean that it would be easy for them to move.

It's funny how different people are in this regard. Some can never imagine leaving, and others can never imagine staying.

suds79
06-19-2012, 12:04 PM
I used to think that someday I was going to have kids. But every day that % goes down more and more. I see friends of mine start to have kids, other family members start to have kids, and everything they dreamed of or wanted to do in their life is now gone. They act like they are so unhappy and complain all the time. They have financial hardships because of it. They literally can't do anything fun anymore. But there are some people that are the happiest they could possibly be that way, to each their own. Everyday I am happier and happier I have no kids and I thought the opposite would happen as I got older.

They're doing something wrong or are not on the same page.

Right now the wife & I have only our house as our debt and that's it.

As far as rainy day savings? We could probably make it say 6 months if I were to lose my job before we'd have to start drawing out of our investments.

We have 1 kid. Best part of our lives. So worth it.

Hoover
06-19-2012, 12:05 PM
I've got six months worth of expenses saved up sitting in the bank and no debt other than my house. I dream of the day my home is paid off.
This.

We owe money on the house we just built. Probably will take 15 to 20 years to pay it off.
We owe on my wife's law degree.

Other than that we are free and clear.

The hardest thing to do is to get out of debt, or better yet get you head above water. Once you can achieve that things get much easier.

I'm amazed at the flexibility my wife and I have with our finances. It wasn't always the case, but once we realized that we were using this weeks paycheck to play last months bills, we set out to correct that. It's been an amazing transformation.

Learn to budget and live within you means and life gets pretty easy if you ask me.

Oh, and it doesn't hurt if you are willing to drive an old car for a while. I'm still driving my 2002 Toyota Carolla. I bitch about it to my buddies, but it would be stupid of me not to keep it.

-King-
06-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Who said it was easy? Sometimes you have to do something bold to help your family.

I'm not saying it's the way it should be. I'm saying that's the reality of how life is.

But it's NOT the reality. That's what you wish people would do. The reality is that most people would rather keep living in NYC with a 50k salary than uproot their families and move to a city in the midwest or somewhere else cheaper and attempt to get a new job there.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 12:09 PM
Expecting someone to move away from a city they've lived in all their lives is unrealistic. Just because no one forces them to stay doesn't mean that it would be easy for them to move.

Wouldn't want someone to have to make a difficult decision. God forbid someone has to move thirty miles away from Manhattan so that they can live on what they make...

Only five million people make that commute every day, after all.

suds79
06-19-2012, 12:13 PM
I don't think that's fair. Most people don't choose where they live per se. If you are born in Kansas City, most likely that's where you're going to live the rest of your life. Most people that make 50k in NYC didn't exactly "choose" to live there.

Ah I don't agree with this. Yes you're likely to live where you grew up but when it comes between living where you grew up vs living where you can make it? That's a no brainer every day of the week.

I know I'd change my situation. Wouldn't you?

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 12:13 PM
But it's NOT the reality. That's what you wish people would do. The reality is that most people would rather keep living in NYC with a 50k salary than uproot their families and move to a city in the midwest or somewhere else cheaper and attempt to get a new job there.

And there's a word for what those people are doing; "choosing".

They have a choice other than to do what they are doing. I'm not making a value judgment, simply pointing out the fact that they have other options.

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 12:14 PM
But it's NOT the reality. That's what you wish people would do. The reality is that most people would rather keep living in NYC with a 50k salary than uproot their families and move to a city in the midwest or somewhere else cheaper and attempt to get a new job there.

I didn't think I was making a statement on what the reality was. I was making a statement on what should happen.

3rd&48ers
06-19-2012, 12:17 PM
All I am gonna say is being 100% Debt Free since May 2009 is the best decision I ever made in my life and I hope everyone gets to enjoy the feeling of financial freedom one day.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 12:18 PM
But they're not forced to. They're generally choosing to live there due to familial issues, familiarity, or lack of wanderlust. No one forces them to continue to live there and it is much issue to move somewhere else today then it was in 1950 (or even 1990 for that matter).

well, no ones forcing them not to find a $150,000/yr job either!

eazyb81
06-19-2012, 12:21 PM
well, no ones forcing them not to find a $150,000/yr job either!

Actually their lack of skills, work experience, and university pedigree is preventing them from finding a $150,000 per year job.

Moving cities would be as easy as filling up the gas tank or buying a train ticket.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 12:22 PM
1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 25
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 50
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 60
19. 200
20. 200

Median = 55

1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 25
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 50
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 60
19. 200

Median = 50

1. 25
2. 25
3. 25
4. 25
5. 50
6. 50
7. 50
8. 50
9. 50
10. 60
11. 60
12. 60
13. 60
14. 60
15. 60
16. 60
17. 60
18. 200
19. 200

Median = 60


Yeah, huge difference there. I see your point.

First of all I misread and thought he said mean. This has been addressed. Secondly, I would say 10K is a BIG difference. Thirdly median is a horrible way to compare financial situations. Regardless of what the median number is it has no effect on the bottom half and their income and how well they are able to save.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 12:23 PM
But it's NOT the reality. That's what you wish people would do. The reality is that most people would rather keep living in NYC with a 50k salary than uproot their families and move to a city in the midwest or somewhere else cheaper and attempt to get a new job there.

No. Reality is not being able to make ends meat because you are enslaving yourself to your situation

AndChiefs
06-19-2012, 12:25 PM
well, no ones forcing them not to find a $150,000/yr job either!

There's many reasons why they wouldn't be able to find a job paying $150,000/year outside their own choice. Schooling, job market, skills, etc.

There's nothing precluding them from searching for a job outside the city that would be more of a living wage for them where they could start growing their savings. There's also a lot of opportunity to improve those things that are stopping them from finding a job that's $150,000/year. Granted, it's a lot harder to do those things when you have a family but it's still something that's possible.

That's the beauty of the US. You don't have to accept living paycheck-to-paycheck your whole life. You can, but you don't have to.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 12:27 PM
First of all I misread and thought he said mean. This has been addressed. Secondly, I would say 10K is a BIG difference. Thirdly median is a horrible way to compare financial situations. Regardless of what the median number is it has no effect on the bottom half and their income and how well they are able to save.

Actually, median is an excellent way to compare income levels.

Deberg_1990
06-19-2012, 12:29 PM
All I am gonna say is being 100% Debt Free since May 2009 is the best decision I ever made in my life and I hope everyone gets to enjoy the feeling of financial freedom one day.

Wow, took you long enough. What would a financial thread be without you?

3rd&48ers
06-19-2012, 12:32 PM
Wow, took you long enough. What would a financial thread be without you?
Meh... If a man want's to live his life broke and up to his sack in debt, who am I to judge him?

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 12:35 PM
Actually, median is an excellent way to compare income levels.

Income levels is not the same as financial situation (which I said). Yeah if you want to separate people and place them in brackets and levels so you know what level people fall into with regards to everyone else it works. But it doesn't do any good with regards to each person's financial situation. 40K in NYC is not the same as 40K in KC.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 12:39 PM
Income levels is not the same as income. Yeah if you want to separate people and place them in brackets and levels so you know what level people fall into with regards to everyone else it works. But it doesn't do any good with regards to each person's financial situation. 40K in NYC is not the same as 40K in KC.

Well, yes. Thus choosing to live in La Jolla as opposed to living somewhere with a more modest cost of living is a foolish decision for someone who makes $50k...but it's still a choice.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Well, yes. Thus choosing to live in La Jolla as opposed to living somewhere with a more modest cost of living is a foolish decision for someone who makes $50k...but it's still a choice.

Firstly what and where is La Jolla? Secondly, if you make 50K in La Jolla you are not likely to make that somewhere else assumming you move laterally position wise. I know that a new graduate RN in California makes around $35/hr whereas here you are looking to start around $22-25/hr.

Buehler445
06-19-2012, 12:45 PM
This is a good point. I have a pretty decent financial position in part because I've generally made good decisions, but also because I've had the luck to avoid having a serious illness, got scholarships for my entire college career, and haven't had a crazy person break into my house and get killed by that big Nepalese gurkha knife that I keep for protection.

Fucking Awesome!

http://www.knife-depot.com/images/product/1d/67101.jpg

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 12:58 PM
Firstly what and where is La Jolla? Secondly, if you make 50K in La Jolla you are not likely to make that somewhere else assumming you move laterally position wise. I know that a new graduate RN in California makes around $35/hr whereas here you are looking to start around $22-25/hr.

La Jolla is an upscale town near San Diego that would be a prison for those who are forced to live there through no choice of their own if they only made $50k. Moving 30 miles away and commuting would simply be too much to ask.

mr. tegu
06-19-2012, 01:02 PM
La Jolla is an upscale town near San Diego that would be a prison for those who are forced to live there through no choice of their own if they only made $50k. Moving 30 miles away and commuting would simply be too much to ask.

An extra $2,200 in gas a year plus travel time would be enough for many people to say screw that. I know I know it is a choice though.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 01:06 PM
An extra $2,200 in gas a year plus travel time would be enough for many people to say screw that. I know I know it is a choice though.

$2,200 more a year in gas versus $2,200 more per month in rent? Yes, it's a choice. (Ignoring the public transit options for the sake of argument.)

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 01:08 PM
The bigger question is (individually): How much money do you need to retire?

Yep.

I figure somewhere in the $2.5 - 3 mil range.



As far as the OP, I have about 2yrs worth of living expenses in savings and other than my new (but small) car loan, zero debt.

Now that I won't be paying $20k/yr in tuition my savings should start growing again. For the past 2-2.5yrs I've chosen to max out my 401k and Roth IRA and not contribute to savings while paying out of pocket for school.

whoman69
06-19-2012, 01:10 PM
People still save money at banks? The interest rate doesn't even keep up with inflation most years.

DaFace
06-19-2012, 01:15 PM
All I am gonna say is being 100% Debt Free since May 2009 is the best decision I ever made in my life and I hope everyone gets to enjoy the feeling of financial freedom one day.

NEG REP!!! Wait...what? That's it? :harumph:

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 01:15 PM
Actually their lack of skills, work experience, and university pedigree is preventing them from finding a $150,000 per year job.

Moving cities would be as easy as filling up the gas tank or buying a train ticket.

not true. An increasing number of Americans are underemployed. And it's getting worse.

and I guess if you want to be simplistic and say that, yes, they could pack up themselves and their family and move somewhere else, but again, in this economy, finding a job that would better your situation is far from guaranteed.

ReynardMuldrake
06-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Yep.

I figure somewhere in the $2.5 - 3 mil range.



As far as the OP, I have about 2yrs worth of living expenses in savings and other than my new (but small) car loan, zero debt.

Now that I won't be paying $20k/yr in tuition my savings should start growing again. For the past 2-2.5yrs I've chosen to max out my 401k and Roth IRA and not contribute to savings while paying out of pocket for school.


Where do you get this figure? That seems high to me.

bowener
06-19-2012, 01:17 PM
$0
I inherit a ton of great farm land. That is my 401k.

DaFace
06-19-2012, 01:20 PM
I used to think that someday I was going to have kids. But every day that % goes down more and more. I see friends of mine start to have kids, other family members start to have kids, and everything they dreamed of or wanted to do in their life is now gone. They act like they are so unhappy and complain all the time. They have financial hardships because of it. They literally can't do anything fun anymore. But there are some people that are the happiest they could possibly be that way, to each their own. Everyday I am happier and happier I have no kids and I thought the opposite would happen as I got older.

My wife and I have been the same way. Right out of college, I'd say we were on the "we want kids, but not yet" track. I would've said there was a 90% chance we would eventually. But as time has gone on, we've met more and more people who don't have kids and are OK with it. That has been combined with a ton of my friends "back in Kansas" who are having kids, and their lives aside from the kids just come to a screeching halt. For us, it's not even purely financial (though that's obviously part of it) - they just don't have time to do anything.

As an example, my best friend was stationed in Japan while in the Navy. While in college, he always said that he wanted to move back after college with his wife and teach English classes for a few years just so she could understand why he enjoyed living there so much. He and I were going to, at a minimum, take a vacation there for a couple weeks so that he could show me around. Fast forward a few years: none of us had the money to travel much right out of the gate, but now we do. Only problem? They have a kid. I asked him about it a month or two ago, and it's more of a "maybe in 10-15 years" idea now.

Maybe I'll go without him.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Where do you get this figure? That seems high to me.

Depends on how you define it.

Say you decide you and your wife need $50,000/yr to live. If you assume you will live 20 years in retirement, that's $1 mil. However, if you account for the tax burden of your retirement plan, that $50k becomes (pulling a number out of my ass) $38,000. So in reality you only have $760,000 for retirement. Add in the impact of inflation, and by the time you hit (you hope) 65, that $760,000 may only equate to (again, OOMA) $650,000 in today's dollars.

It's a somewhat scary (at least to me) situation. God help all of us that lost half (or more) of our meager retirement plan in 2010. That could potentially happen to each of us multiple times before we retire.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 01:24 PM
Yep.

I figure somewhere in the $2.5 - 3 mil range.



As far as the OP, I have about 2yrs worth of living expenses in savings and other than my new (but small) car loan, zero debt.

Now that I won't be paying $20k/yr in tuition my savings should start growing again. For the past 2-2.5yrs I've chosen to max out my 401k and Roth IRA and not contribute to savings while paying out of pocket for school.

You are such a young guy, retirement has got to be a pretty tough one to calculate.

My personal bogey was that I wanted the OPTION to retire at 50, without penalty or financial struggle. I also wanted to maintain paying myself my average annual salary that I received over the last 5 years of my career. So, I had to save a lot more aggressively than some, but that is what my wife and I both wanted. Fortunately for us, that has become a reality.

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 01:32 PM
It's interesting to see how a simple thread can turn into a debate. Only on CP. LMAO

Everyone's situation is different and can change dramatically in a short time, (especially w/ the economy the way it is today). Many could say that we were living beyond our means, but I would state that wasn't the case.

Consider this... Gonzo and I waited until we were financially stable before we decided to have a baby. We were married in our early 20's and I didn't give birth to our son until a few days before my 30th b-day. At this time, we had stability in our careers and our finances, and the only debts we had was a car payment and a mortgage. Everything was paid for with cash... EVERYTHING. If we couldn't afford something, we didn't buy it.

But this changed 2 years ago when his company decided to eliminate his department and he had no choice but to take a lower paying job elsewhere. We had no other option but to pay our bills via our 1 credit card, (yes, we only have 1). But, before we knew it, that card was maxed out. I then took out a personal loan to give us some leverage... funds were gone in 2 months.

He has since been rehired from his former company, but he's making nowhere near what he was, (or what he's worth for that matter-the man works his ass off!). As far as my career, I'm still truckin' along. I haven't received a raise in 3 years, (thanks again to this economy), but what can you do?

phisherman
06-19-2012, 01:34 PM
My wife and I have been the same way. Right out of college, I'd say we were on the "we want kids, but not yet" track. I would've said there was a 90% chance we would eventually. But as time has gone on, we've met more and more people who don't have kids and are OK with it. That has been combined with a ton of my friends "back in Kansas" who are having kids, and their lives aside from the kids just come to a screeching halt. For us, it's not even purely financial (though that's obviously part of it) - they just don't have time to do anything.

As an example, my best friend was stationed in Japan while in the Navy. While in college, he always said that he wanted to move back after college with his wife and teach English classes for a few years just so she could understand why he enjoyed living there so much. He and I were going to, at a minimum, take a vacation there for a couple weeks so that he could show me around. Fast forward a few years: none of us had the money to travel much right out of the gate, but now we do. Only problem? They have a kid. I asked him about it a month or two ago, and it's more of a "maybe in 10-15 years" idea now.

Maybe I'll go without him.

Priorities change once kids come along. Both your post and the post you quoted both sound like they're coming from someone that doesn't want to stop being the center of their own universe. I don't begrudge you of that; there are definitely times when I would like to come and go as I pleased and not have to deal with babysitters or packing up the car with tons of stuff so we can be prepared for all the normal kid emergencies.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 01:35 PM
It's interesting to see how a simple thread can turn into a debate. Only on CP. LMAO

Everyone's situation is different and can change dramatically in a short time, (especially w/ the economy the way it is today). Many could say that we were living beyond our means, but I would state that wasn't the case.

Consider this... Gonzo and I waited until we were financially stable before we decided to have a baby. We were married in our early 20's and I didn't give birth to our son until a few days before my 30th b-day. At this time, we had stability in our careers and our finances, and the only debts we had was a car payment and a mortgage. Everything was paid for with cash... EVERYTHING. If we couldn't afford something, we didn't buy it.

But this changed 2 years ago when his company decided to eliminate his department and he had no choice but to take a lower paying job elsewhere. We had no other option but to pay our bills via our 1 credit card, (yes, we only have 1). But, before we knew it, that card was maxed out. I then took out a personal loan to give us some leverage... funds were gone in 2 months.

He has since been rehired from his former company, but he's making nowhere near what he was, (or what he's worth for that matter-the man works his ass off!). As far as my career, I'm still truckin' along. I haven't received a raise in 3 years, (thanks again to this economy), but what can you do?

that's what irritates me about those slinging judgement in these threads. I've been lucky enough to avoid it, but many, many people in this country have been dealt setbacks beyond their control.

DaFace
06-19-2012, 01:37 PM
Priorities change once kids come along. Both your post and the post you quoted both sound like they're coming from someone that doesn't want to stop being the center of their own universe. I don't begrudge you of that; there are definitely times when I would like to come and go as I pleased and not have to deal with babysitters or packing up the car with tons of stuff so we can be prepared for all the normal kid emergencies.

I don't fully disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'd disagree with the "doesn't want to stop being the center of their own universe" part. I'd argue that people have kids in the first place because they think they'll be happier because of it. We're all motivated by improving the lives of ourselves and those we love - we just go about finding that in different ways.

Unless of course you're saying that I'm harming society by not having kids (as a stable and reasonably intelligent individual) while there are mom's on welfare with 8 kids. On that front, I'm guilty as charged.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 01:38 PM
Priorities change once kids come along. Both your post and the post you quoted both sound like they're coming from someone that doesn't want to stop being the center of their own universe. I don't begrudge you of that; there are definitely times when I would like to come and go as I pleased and not have to deal with babysitters or packing up the car with tons of stuff so we can be prepared for all the normal kid emergencies.

I love living in a Rainmancentric universe. It's so nice to see the elegant dance of everything else orbiting around me.

loochy
06-19-2012, 01:39 PM
I hope that's 70k that's making you money at least rather than sitting in a 0.1% savings account.

Oh heh I misread the thread title. I thought it said "how much do you have saved?" and I left off " in the bank."

No, it's not all in the bank. Durhp.

phisherman
06-19-2012, 01:43 PM
I love living in a Rainmancentric universe. It's so nice to see the elegant dance of everything else orbiting around me.

I guess my wording is a bit extreme, but that's really the crux of the issue. And I can empathize. I enjoyed life pre-children very much, but I also truly enjoy having a daughter to raise and care for.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 01:44 PM
My wife and I have been the same way. Right out of college, I'd say we were on the "we want kids, but not yet" track. I would've said there was a 90% chance we would eventually. But as time has gone on, we've met more and more people who don't have kids and are OK with it. That has been combined with a ton of my friends "back in Kansas" who are having kids, and their lives aside from the kids just come to a screeching halt. For us, it's not even purely financial (though that's obviously part of it) - they just don't have time to do anything.

As an example, my best friend was stationed in Japan while in the Navy. While in college, he always said that he wanted to move back after college with his wife and teach English classes for a few years just so she could understand why he enjoyed living there so much. He and I were going to, at a minimum, take a vacation there for a couple weeks so that he could show me around. Fast forward a few years: none of us had the money to travel much right out of the gate, but now we do. Only problem? They have a kid. I asked him about it a month or two ago, and it's more of a "maybe in 10-15 years" idea now.

Maybe I'll go without him.

Children aren't for everyone. That said if you're a person who can find balance in your life, you won't feel saddled by having kids. I was terrified of losing my entire identity by becoming a father, but it simply hasn't happened because my wife and I haven't let it happen.

A lot of people basically resign themselves to being nothing beyond parents of their children. That may sound noble, but I don't think it makes them better parents. Quite the opposite, in fact. Many times, it seems like these types either spoil their children or are resentful towards them.

I will say that it took a good two years for it to sink in that I was a parent. I'd get a call about a float trip or something and be like "I'm in...oh wait, I have a kid. I can't commit to that without making arrangements".

phisherman
06-19-2012, 01:46 PM
Children aren't for everyone. That said if you're a person who can find balance in your life, you won't feel saddled by having kids. I was terrified of losing my entire identity by becoming a father, but it simply hasn't happened because my wife and I haven't let it happen.

A lot of people basically resign themselves to being nothing beyond parents of their children. That may sound noble, but I don't think it makes them better parents. Quite the opposite, in fact. Many times, it seems like these types either spoil their children or are resentful towards them.

I will say that it took a good two years for it to sink in that I was a parent. I'd get a call about a float trip or something and be like "I'm in...oh wait, I have a kid. I can't commit to that without making arrangements".

Very well put. :clap:
I feel the same way when friends ask about trips, etc.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 01:47 PM
that's what irritates me about those slinging judgement in these threads. I've been lucky enough to avoid it, but many, many people in this country have been dealt setbacks beyond their control.

Who is slinging judgment about people who have setbacks?

Inspector
06-19-2012, 01:55 PM
I'm rich and hire Dane McCloud to mow my yard.

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 01:58 PM
that's what irritates me about those slinging judgement in these threads. I've been lucky enough to avoid it, but many, many people in this country have been dealt setbacks beyond their control.

This is exactly why I posted what's going on in our situation. There are many out there that do everything "right", but shit happens and you're more or less forced into debt.

The only thing you can do is put your ass in gear and move forward. I won't lie though, there was a time when I was going to give up. Then, one day, I stared into my son's eyes and I told myself that I REFUSE to have my son grow up the way that I did.

My parents struggled financially their whole lives, (and are still struggling to this day). I want more for us and, more importantly, our son. I want him to have the option to go to college, I want us to be able to retire at an age to where we can travel and enjoy life. This will not happen if we just say, "oh well" and sit on our asses and not do anything.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
Who is slinging judgment about people who have setbacks?

there are several people in this thread pushing their judgement of other's financial matters.

In reality, it doesn't matter what any of us think or say, unless we are somehow directly impacted.

Demonpenz
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
Having a dog or most pets eats up some coin.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 02:08 PM
This is exactly why I posted what's going on in our situation. There are many out there that do everything "right", but shit happens and you're more or less forced into debt.

The only thing you can do is put your ass in gear and move forward. I won't lie though, there was a time when I was going to give up. Then, one day, I stared into my son's eyes and I told myself that I REFUSE to have my son grow up the way that I did.

My parents struggled financially their whole lives, (and are still struggling to this day). I want more for our us and, more importantly, our son. I want him to have the option to go to college, I want us to be able to retire at an age to where we can travel and enjoy life. This will not happen if we just say, "oh well" and sit on our asses and not do anything.

I'm a huge proponent of making sacrifices in order to get out of debt, not because it's immoral, but because it's a good financial place to be.

I understand that shit happens. When it does, it helps to be out of debt and have some savings. That isn't always enough to make everything sunshine and bunny rabbits, but it's a start.

You've got to do what you've got to do sometimes. Being broke should be a temporary obstacle to overcome, not a way of life.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 02:10 PM
I'm rich and hire Dane McCloud to mow my yard.

:clap:

vailpass
06-19-2012, 02:13 PM
Gauche OP is gauche.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 02:14 PM
I'm rich and hire Dane McCloud to mow my yard.

You must not have done a background check on him. I would never hire a person with sexual proclivities like his.

WhiteWhale
06-19-2012, 02:16 PM
Bullshit. People make poor decisions with their money. The average person might not be wealthy, but he can do much better than living paycheck to paycheck.

Ehhhhhhhh it depends on the person and the situation.

I hate blanket statements like this. There are a number of things that are nothing more than poor fortune that can really break your bank... illness to yourself or a family member for starters....

ReynardMuldrake
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
You are such a young guy, retirement has got to be a pretty tough one to calculate.

My personal bogey was that I wanted the OPTION to retire at 50, without penalty or financial struggle. I also wanted to maintain paying myself my average annual salary that I received over the last 5 years of my career. So, I had to save a lot more aggressively than some, but that is what my wife and I both wanted. Fortunately for us, that has become a reality.

That's awesome. My fiancee and I have made it our personal goal to retire at 55. I may keep working after that, but it's going to be nice to have that option. I'm lucky enough to have an employer that offers a pension, and a girl that's just as frugal as I am. We bought a house in 2008 with a 10-year mortgage that's already half paid off. Owning a house that's paid for and being debt free is a HUGE step towards being able to do whatever you want financially.

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 02:18 PM
I'm a huge proponent of making sacrifices in order to get out of debt, not because it's immoral, but because it's a good financial place to be.

I understand that shit happens. When it does, it helps to be out of debt and have some savings. That isn't always enough to make everything sunshine and bunny rabbits, but it's a start.

You've got to do what you've got to do sometimes. Being broke should be a temporary obstacle to overcome, not a way of life.

Well, I had a choice to make... either we get our finances in order or I start stripping. Sadly, I'm not as limber as I was in my 20's, so I got creative w/ our budget. LMAO

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Ehhhhhhhh it depends on the person and the situation.

I hate blanket statements like this. There are a number of things that are nothing more than poor fortune that can really break your bank... illness to yourself or a family member for starters....

"All people" would have been a blanket statement. I said "the average" person.

Rain Man
06-19-2012, 02:34 PM
Well, I had a choice to make... either we get our finances in order or I start stripping. Sadly, I'm not as limber as I was in my 20's, so I got creative w/ our budget. LMAO

There's no reason you can't do both. Well, other than maybe a lack of limberness.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 02:36 PM
There's no reason you can't do both. Well, other than maybe a lack of limberness.

I think Lumpy should at least post her audition tape for her fellow Planeteers to critique:shrug:

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 02:38 PM
There's no reason you can't do both. Well, other than maybe a lack of limberness.

It's okay if she isn't limber. I will just tip with the kind of money that doesn't bend.

WhiteWhale
06-19-2012, 02:38 PM
"All people" would have been a blanket statement. I said "the average" person.

I thought you were referring to 'average person' by their income level.. thus I thought you were referring to all people with an average income.

My fault.

I would agree that living beyond one's means is a major problem across the country, but it becomes hard to know what that is when the value of the dollar continually plummets as it has been for the past 10 years. Everything costs, literally, double what it did 10 years ago.

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 02:44 PM
Where do you get this figure? That seems high to me.

It's difficult to estimate. If I wanted $50k/yr for 20 years assuming 3% inflation the present value is about $750k.

The future value of $750k 40 years from now, again assuming 3% inflation, is about $2.5 mil.

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 02:46 PM
You are such a young guy, retirement has got to be a pretty tough one to calculate.

My personal bogey was that I wanted the OPTION to retire at 50, without penalty or financial struggle. I also wanted to maintain paying myself my average annual salary that I received over the last 5 years of my career. So, I had to save a lot more aggressively than some, but that is what my wife and I both wanted. Fortunately for us, that has become a reality.

Yeah it's difficult to estimate with so much up in the air (future economy, family situation, employment, wealth, etc.).

That's Awesome for you and your wife. Personally, I don't see myself wanting to "retire" but I also recognize the big difference between retiring and having the OPTION to retire. ;)

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 02:47 PM
There's no reason you can't do both. Well, other than maybe a lack of limberness.

ROFL I was being facetious, (obviously).

Although, I was a dance instructor, so the dancing part wouldn't be difficult. Plus, the money would be great and Gonzo wouldn't need to work. :hmmm:

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 02:48 PM
ROFL I was being facetious, (obviously).

Although, I was a dance instructor, so the dancing part wouldn't be difficult. Plus, the money would be great and Gonzo wouldn't need to work. :hmmm:

Be a team player!

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 02:52 PM
Yeah it's difficult to estimate with so much up in the air (future economy, family situation, employment, wealth, health, etc.).

That's Awesome for you and your wife. Personally, I don't see myself wanting to "retire" but I also recognize the big difference between retiring and having the OPTION to retire. ;)

That is a big one and a wildcard for so many - Health of the wage earner, the spouse and kids. That one is hard to imagine and plan for, but it effects so many, and many times it comes from out of the blue.

Lumpy
06-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Be a team player!

LMAO As if I'm not already. I've been at the same job for 12 years now. Speaking of which, I have work to do... I think? :hmmm:

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 02:55 PM
That is a big one and a wildcard for so many - Health of the wage earner, the spouse and kids. That one is hard to imagine and plan for, but it effects so many, and many times it comes from out of the blue.

Actually, it's very easy to plan for. Get long-term disability insurance.

DaKCMan AP
06-19-2012, 02:56 PM
That is a big one and a wildcard for so many - Health of the wage earner, the spouse and kids. That one is hard to imagine and plan for, but it effects so many, and many times it comes from out of the blue.

Yeah - but all of them (health, family, employment) come with some control and some uncertainty.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Actually, it's very easy to plan for. Get long-term disability insurance.

LTD Plans aren't really the answer. They certainly soften the impact, but they are expensive and it's not really a panacea either.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 03:16 PM
LTD Plans aren't really the answer. They certainly soften the impact, but they are expensive and it's not really a panacea either.

Actually, they are very inexpensive. Mine pays 70% of my salary tax free after six months.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Actually, they are very inexpensive. Mine pays 70% of my salary tax free after six months.

Not if you are self-employed (like me)

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 03:22 PM
Not if you are self-employed (like me)

You can buy the same thing.

ChiTown
06-19-2012, 03:29 PM
You can buy the same thing.

Right, but the premiums for an individual person to purchase them vs a Corporate purchase are just a tad different. I've looked into it. At that time, it was between $600-700/month, and they offer 60% coverage.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 03:58 PM
Right, but the premiums for an individual person to purchase them vs a Corporate purchase are just a tad different. I've looked into it. At that time, it was between $600-700/month, and they offer 60% coverage.

What in the hell kind of business do you own, chainsaw juggling?

ThatRaceCardGuy
06-19-2012, 04:05 PM
If it left to me we would live pay check to paycheck lol. .thank god the misses is a wiz with money and saving. We have 25k in.liquid savings , 401ks, roth.IRA, and our debt is all student and car loans.

Mosbonian
06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Actually, it's very easy to plan for. Get long-term disability insurance.

You've never had to deal with Long Term Disability.....because if you did you wouldn't be making this statement.

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 05:17 PM
You've never had to deal with Long Term Disability.....because if you did you wouldn't be making this statement.

The product is very good if you buy it from a good company.

3rd&48ers
06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
The product is very good if you buy it from a good company.

I had a dear friend that died of Cancer a few years back, he had long term disability but when he went on medicaid he had to pay back the monies he had gotten from the disability payments which I thought was pretty shitty

Mosbonian
06-19-2012, 05:20 PM
The product is very good if you buy it from a good company.

I can tell you from experience that like the movies we believe are real, LTD isn't what you believe it to be.

You should have a conversation with someone who has had to take LTD....or a person whose spouse suffers from Dementia/Alzheimers, a stroke that has left them paralyzed, etc....

Saul Good
06-19-2012, 05:56 PM
I can tell you from experience that like the movies we believe are real, LTD isn't what you believe it to be.

You should have a conversation with someone who has had to take LTD....or a person whose spouse suffers from Dementia/Alzheimers, a stroke that has left them paralyzed, etc....

I have a ton of experience with this product.

JASONSAUTO
06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
I had eighteen months business and personal before I started this building project. That's including payroll. After I'm done with this I figure I'll have fourteen. That's if I don't make a dime in the next couple months.

Oh and we are now buying retro baby stuff for the baby's room.
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crispystl420
06-19-2012, 06:27 PM
Thanks. I would've certainly tried, and the kid(s) would've had a good environment, but I also recognize that I'm short on some of the basic requirements of parenting like sympathy and patience and open affection. I'm particularly uncomfortable with that whole "showing open affection towards other humans" part even when it's present, as my wife would probably attest.

You wouldn't be with your own offspring. Trust me.

Mosbonian
06-19-2012, 06:45 PM
I have a ton of experience with this product.

But have you had experience with LTD in the cases I mentioned?

ChiTown
06-20-2012, 05:48 AM
What in the hell kind of business do you own, chainsaw juggling?

It's based off of a percentage of what you make.

Saul Good
06-20-2012, 07:27 AM
It's based off of a percentage of what you make.

It's also based off what you do for a living. For example, a lumberjack is much more likely to be unable to work due to disability than someone who sits in a cubicle all day.

ChiTown
06-20-2012, 07:42 AM
It's also based off what you do for a living. For example, a lumberjack is much more likely to be unable to work due to disability than someone who sits in a cubicle all day.

I am a taste tester for an arsenic producer.

Saul Good
06-20-2012, 07:43 AM
I am a taste tester for an arsenic producer.

Are they hiring?

ChiTown
06-20-2012, 07:49 AM
Are they hiring?

Every day