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Hog Farmer
06-20-2012, 02:39 AM
Indian man beheads daughter in rage over lifestyle
Published June 19, 2012
Associated Press

June 18, 2012

JAIPUR, India A father in northwestern India remained unrepentant Tuesday after beheading his daughter with a ceremonial sword in a rage over her relationships with men, police said.

The father surrendered at a police station, carrying the head in one hand and the bloodied sword in the other, police said.Residents of Dungarji village expressed shock as they performed the last rites for the 20-year-old woman.

Police said the father, marble miner Oghad Singh, accused his daughter of bringing dishonor to the family and making it hard to find husbands for her two unmarried sisters.

Women wailing in grief lined the dusty road of the village in Rajasthan state as a procession carried Manju Kanwar's remains to her funeral pyre. As in many north and west Indian villages, the women, including her mother and four sisters, were not allowed to attend the funeral.

A coroner stitched Kanwar's head onto her body for the funeral. About 100 men, many of them relatives wearing ceremonial Rajput warrior clan turbans, surrounded her muslin-wrapped body, and her brother lit the funeral pyre.

Villagers condemned the father's actions as extreme. They said the father, his shirt soaked in blood, had carried his daughter's head through the village, describing what he'd done to neighbors.

"He told me that he took the sword out, and when the daughter was all alone in the house he beheaded her with a single stroke and the head fell on the ground," said Narayan Singh, a distant relative.

He said he persuaded Singh to surrender, and took him by motorcycle to a police station 5 kilometers (2 miles) away. Police charged Singh, 46, with murder.

"It was a ghastly sight," officer Ranjit Singh said, describing the father sitting in the station's waiting room holding the head in one hand and the sword in the other. "Oghad admitted immediately that he killed his daughter because she had earned a bad name for the family."

Police described Kanwar's recent life as difficult and unorthodox for the traditional community of about 1,000 just outside the Rajasthani tourist town of Udaipur.

She left her husband from an arranged marriage two years ago and moved back home to live with her parents. She recently began seeing several men which "disgusted" her father, deputy police superintendent Umesh Ojha said.

"Oghad said he was fed up with the lifestyle of his daughter," Ojha said.

When Manju eloped with one man two weeks ago, her father forced her to return on Sunday and killed her.

Rapidly modernizing India faces increasing social clashes as youths resist traditions like arranged marriage or limits on women venturing outside their parents' or husbands' homes.

Apparently the marble miner had lost his marbles !

chasedude
06-20-2012, 02:42 AM
I think he's HEADED to a looong prison sentence.

Ok, not my best work @ 3am.

mikey23545
06-20-2012, 03:29 AM
"She left her husband from an arranged marriage two years ago and moved back home to live with her parents. She recently began seeing several men which "disgusted" her father, deputy police superintendent Umesh Ojha said."


We know she won't be giving anyone head anymore.

Nickel D
06-20-2012, 05:38 AM
The "several men" the daughter had been seeing now fear the father will 'behead' them...and I'm not talking about their heads that are above their shoulders.

ZepSinger
06-20-2012, 06:24 AM
Just what in the hell is with these freaking 'Honor' killings? Nice culture ya got there, dad.

NewChief
06-20-2012, 06:34 AM
That's a hell of a sharp sword.

J Diddy
06-20-2012, 06:40 AM
I think he's HEADED to a looong prison sentence.

Ok, not my best work @ 3am.

Maybe it would have went better like this:

He BE HEADED for some jail time.

redhed
06-20-2012, 06:40 AM
Dad just wanted to feel the Quickening.

J Diddy
06-20-2012, 06:43 AM
In all seriousness this is a great article to share with your teen daughter when she says, "you're not being fair."

Chiefs Pantalones
06-20-2012, 06:48 AM
I'm glad I'm an American.

Deberg_1990
06-20-2012, 06:50 AM
Well, thats what she gets for sleeping around.....

Chiefs Pantalones
06-20-2012, 06:52 AM
Kids these days need to get their heads together...

No?

qabbaan
06-20-2012, 07:03 AM
Honor killings are not that uncommon in Islamic cultures. (I know this is India, but there are a lot of muslims in india.) There are thousands of these each year. Family members kill relatives for relationships with unbelievers, suspicion of homosexuality, adultery. There was a story that gained some media attention a few years ago of a girl in Iraq who fell in love with a British soldier and her family beat her to death. But you don't necessarily have to kill them, wife-beating is considered appropriate by many for dishonoring offenses.

KCUnited
06-20-2012, 07:11 AM
Honor killings are not that uncommon in Islamic cultures. (I know this is India, but there are a lot of muslims in india.) There are thousands of these each year. Family members kill relatives for relationships with unbelievers, suspicion of homosexuality, adultery. There was a story that gained some media attention a few years ago of a girl in Iraq who fell in love with a British soldier and her family beat her to death. But you don't necessarily have to kill them, wife-beating is considered appropriate by many for dishonoring offenses.

no1curry

Dragonocho
06-20-2012, 07:39 AM
He found a way to get a head

Frankie
06-20-2012, 08:20 AM
Honor killings are not that uncommon in Islamic cultures. (I know this is India, but there are a lot of muslims in india.)
What part of the name Singh did you not understand?! :shake:

There are thousands of these each year ("in Islamic cultures"). Family members kill relatives for relationships with unbelievers, suspicion of homosexuality, adultery. There was a story that gained some media attention a few years ago of a girl in Iraq who fell in love with a British soldier and her family beat her to death. Your math is a little weak. But much less than your credibility as an expert on other cultures.:spock:

But you don't necessarily have to kill them, wife-beating is considered appropriate by many for dishonoring offenses.Aren't we glad wife-beating is never practiced here in America? :thumb:

JD10367
06-20-2012, 08:23 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ts1-3JqrG4A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

blaise
06-20-2012, 08:24 AM
Knock knock

Who's there?

Calcutta.

Calcutta who?

Calcutta you head off if you don't stop dishonoring me!

Frankie
06-20-2012, 08:26 AM
Knock knock

Who's there?

Calcutta.

Calcutta who?

Calcutta you head off if you don't stop dishonoring me!

That sounds more Italian than Indian. Just sayin' ;)

Phobia
06-20-2012, 08:50 AM
What part of the name Singh did you not understand?! :shake:

Your math is a little weak. But much less than your credibility as an expert on other cultures.:spock:

Aren't we glad wife-beating is never practiced here in America? :thumb:
Are you going to try to convince us that your people don't practice honor killings as a matter of maintaining some kind of familial pride? It's not like this father went crazy and lopped off his daughter's head. This kind of thing is actually expected among the old-school Islamic peoples.

Chiefshrink
06-20-2012, 08:57 AM
Are you going to try to convince us that your people don't practice honor killings as a matter of maintaining some kind of familial pride? It's not like this father went crazy and lopped off his daughter's head. This kind of thing is actually expected among the old-school Islamic peoples.

:thumb:

JD10367
06-20-2012, 09:00 AM
Fucking savages. Everything south and east of the Mediterranean. Strange how the areas of Earth which gave us the oldest cultures are the most backwards and heinous in their treatment of women and children.

Frankie
06-20-2012, 09:11 AM
Are you going to try to convince us that your people don't practice honor killings as a matter of maintaining some kind of familial pride? It's not like this father went crazy and lopped off his daughter's head. This kind of thing is actually expected among the old-school Islamic peoples.

No I'm not. Singh is not a Persian, nor an Islamic name. It's a Hindu name. What I'm trying to convince you is that crazed assholes exist in all cultures. There's no excuse for being a crazed mutherfocker. Being a slave to phony archaic traditions is just as much an addiction as alcoholism or using any other harsh drugs. None of that shit is an excuse for some crazed person to do something violent that's been pent up in him waiting to come out. Charles Manson and his followers were neither Persian nor Muslim. Occasional violent assholes are not great representatives of a society.

I responded to the other poster because in his haste to condemn a culture, not his, he forgot the Lincoln mantra:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

journeyscarab
06-20-2012, 09:18 AM
Dad just wanted to feel the Quickening.

Just before he beheaded his daughter he yelled..."there can only be one...HUSBAND!"

Rain Man
06-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Actually, I think he's neither Hindu nor Muslim. Singh is a Sikh name.

As a bit of trivia, Sikhs are the group where men are required or expected to wear a dagger at all times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan

Inmem58
06-20-2012, 09:23 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4d81b-eaff-ea27.jpg

Flawless victory!!!

Simply Red
06-20-2012, 09:28 AM
This is Brand New 'decapitation!'

Fried Meat Ball!
06-20-2012, 09:31 AM
That sounds more Italian than Indian. Just sayin' ;)

You have to read it with an Indian accent.

thabear04
06-20-2012, 09:46 AM
Maybe she can finally hook up with the headless horse men.

Rausch
06-20-2012, 09:56 AM
Being a slave to phony archaic traditions is just as much an addiction as alcoholism or using any other harsh drugs.

Having too many PBR's and chopping off your daughter's head are nowhere near being the same thing...

stevieray
06-20-2012, 10:43 AM
...looks like he headed her off at the pass.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 10:45 AM
So the daughter brought dishonor to the family but the father chopping off her head doesn't do this?

I imagine this is also a culture that practices stoning of women. In case some don't know what that is they bury the woman in the ground with only her top half exposed (arms buried) and they literally stone her to death with all the parties involved expected to participate including family members and those that were involved in the dishonor, which in this case would be the men she was seeing.

mikey23545
06-20-2012, 10:52 AM
Actually, I think he's neither Hindu nor Muslim. Singh is a Sikh name.

As a bit of trivia, Sikhs are the group where men are required or expected to wear a dagger at all times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan


http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/482/kirkkhanshout.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/kirkkhanshout.jpg/)

......................SINGH!!!!!!!!!

Frankie
06-20-2012, 10:59 AM
So the daughter brought dishonor to the family but the father chopping off her head doesn't do this?

I imagine this is also a culture that practices stoning of women. In case some don't know what that is they bury the woman in the ground with only her top half exposed (arms buried) and they literally stone her to death with all the parties involved expected to participate including family members and those that were involved in the dishonor, which in this case would be the men she was seeing.

You know you should have stopped after the first sentence while you were ahead making a good point. But you just had to go and violate the Lincoln rule.

vailpass
06-20-2012, 11:06 AM
Dude was a marksman with that sword. He put it right on the dot.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 11:08 AM
You know you should have stopped after the first sentence while you were ahead making a good point. But you just had to go and violate the Lincoln rule.

What is wrong about what I said? Maybe this culture isn't that way but I said "I imagine." Instead of just tossing around what I'm sure you feel are "clever and witty" remarks that do nothing but derail the conversation why don't you actually bring something to the conversation.

vailpass
06-20-2012, 11:11 AM
You know you should have stopped after the first sentence while you were ahead making a good point. But you just had to go and violate the Lincoln rule.

Had you recently had the beheaded over to a dinner party at your tent?

Phobia
06-20-2012, 12:13 PM
I realize there are crazy people everywhere, Frankie. But this wasn't the act of a crazy person. This guy thought he was restoring family honor as a part of his culture. I don't know what culture that was precisely, whether he was Indian, Persian or whatever nor do I know if he was Hindu or Muslim. I don't care what he was. I think this kind of activity is somewhat common dating back to early times in Persian cultures especially which is why I said "your people". I can't really say for Indian culture. I don't know what they do when a daughter dishonors the family.

Hog Farmer
06-20-2012, 12:27 PM
I think this is commom with people that work in marble mines.

Rain Man
06-20-2012, 12:30 PM
His actions were sikh, I'm telling you! Sikh!

thurman merman
06-20-2012, 12:33 PM
I realize there are crazy people everywhere, Frankie. But this wasn't the act of a crazy person.

Uh...:spock: Yes it was, man. You don't chop your daughter's head off if you are not crazy.

thurman merman
06-20-2012, 12:33 PM
So the daughter brought dishonor to the family but the father chopping off her head doesn't do this?


That's what I was thinking. Isn't decapitating your own daughter fairly dishonorable?

mikey23545
06-20-2012, 12:39 PM
That's what I was thinking. Isn't decapitating your own daughter fairly dishonorable?

In their culture, no.

Are you sure you're paying attention?

Phobia
06-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Uh...:spock: Yes it was, man. You don't chop your daughter's head off if you are not crazy.

It's culturally acceptable and even expected in that guy's culture. You and I think it is a crazy thing to do, naturally. But we are from another culture. You and I think it is crazy to eat rotten fish guts too but it's a delicacy elsewhere.

Frankie
06-20-2012, 01:16 PM
I realize there are crazy people everywhere, Frankie. But this wasn't the act of a crazy person. This guy thought he was restoring family honor as a part of his culture. I don't know what culture that was precisely, whether he was Indian, Persian or whatever nor do I know if he was Hindu or Muslim. I don't care what he was. I think this kind of activity is somewhat common dating back to early times in Persian cultures especially which is why I said "your people". I can't really say for Indian culture. I don't know what they do when a daughter dishonors the family.

All cases that I have seen, growing up, of a son or a daughter "dishonoring" his/her family were never past rumor stage. The parents would either not talk about it, deny it, or at worst dis-own the offspring publicly (usually via an announcement in the local newspaper). Never heard of "honor killing" or any cases thereof as I grew up. Killing someone, especially a member of ones own family, is considered way bigger dishonor by the predominant majority of folks from that general geography, than anything a son or daughter does. Now ask me if there are crazy shitheads in those societies and I say yes there are. Just like there are here. And yes, this guy was one of them. Manson was not "crazy" until the Tate/LaBianca murders. But he was a crazy waiting to come out.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 01:19 PM
Ah - vicious rumors, huh? Just people who hate Islam. I get it. http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/women-s-rights/violence-against-women

Frankie
06-20-2012, 01:20 PM
What is wrong about what I said? Maybe this culture isn't that way but I said "I imagine." Instead of just tossing around what I'm sure you feel are "clever and witty" remarks that do nothing but derail the conversation why don't you actually bring something to the conversation.

Making ignorant blind comments about other cultures you don't know anything about is what derails conversations. Correcting puts the conversation back on the rail. I didn't go along with your uninformed opinion so I "derailed" this conversation!... Nice! :shake:

vailpass
06-20-2012, 01:51 PM
Flunkie actually trying to deny that his people commonly practice honor killings and have for centuries. Hilarious. I picture the cavemen in the Geico commercials except waving rifles instead of bowling balls.

Frankie
06-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Flunkie actually trying to deny that his people commonly practice honor killings and have for centuries. Hilarious. I picture the cavemen in the Geico commercials except waving rifles instead of bowling balls.

And you deny you are a fucking racist asshole. At least when I deny I have it based on truth.

Rausch
06-20-2012, 01:57 PM
Never heard of "honor killing" or any cases thereof as I grew up.

And my fat German ass never heard a word about Nazis...

vailpass
06-20-2012, 02:01 PM
And you deny you are a ****ing racist asshole. At least when I deny I have it based on truth.


You aren't going to get sad and post more ridiculous shit on my profile page are you Flunkie boy?

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Making ignorant blind comments about other cultures you don't know anything about is what derails conversations. Correcting puts the conversation back on the rail. I didn't go along with your uninformed opinion so I "derailed" this conversation!... Nice! :shake:

You still haven't addressed what was wrong about what I said. In your own words you "didn't get along with your uninformed opinion." Well what is wrong about it? Are you denying stonings occur? If so YOU are the one who is blinded.

kysirsoze
06-20-2012, 02:29 PM
HTF is this staying out of DC?

vailpass
06-20-2012, 02:36 PM
HTF is this staying out of DC?

It's heading that way.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:38 PM
I don't know what culture that was precisely, whether he was Indian, Persian or whatever nor do I know if he was Hindu or Muslim.


Most likely Sikh with the last name of Singh.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:44 PM
It's culturally acceptable and even expected in that guy's culture. You and I think it is a crazy thing to do, naturally. But we are from another culture. You and I think it is crazy to eat rotten fish guts too but it's a delicacy elsewhere.


No, it's really not.

From the article:

Residents of Dungarji village expressed shock as they performed the last rites for the 20-year-old woman.

Villagers condemned the father's actions as extreme.

"It was a ghastly sight," officer Ranjit Singh said, describing the father sitting in the station's waiting room holding the head in one hand and the sword in the other.


There is nothing in this article that would imply that his actions were condoned, acceptable or expected by his society.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:46 PM
You might as well post the zombie article as proof that eating your neighbors is OK in Florida.

Frazod
06-20-2012, 02:46 PM
No, it's really not.

From the article:

Residents of Dungarji village expressed shock as they performed the last rites for the 20-year-old woman.

Villagers condemned the father's actions as extreme.

"It was a ghastly sight," officer Ranjit Singh said, describing the father sitting in the station's waiting room holding the head in one hand and the sword in the other.


There is nothing in this article that would imply that his actions were condoned, acceptable or expected by his society.

To be fair, though, the sort of people who approve of this kind of thing probably aren't looking to be interviewed by the media.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 02:52 PM
No, it's really not.

From the article:

Residents of Dungarji village expressed shock as they performed the last rites for the 20-year-old woman.

Villagers condemned the father's actions as extreme.

"It was a ghastly sight," officer Ranjit Singh said, describing the father sitting in the station's waiting room holding the head in one hand and the sword in the other.


There is nothing in this article that would imply that his actions were condoned, acceptable or expected by his society.

Culture and society are not the same thing. The majority of people in that region may dissapprove but this guy's culture (whatever it is) may very well not.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:53 PM
To be fair, though, the sort of people who approve of this kind of thing probably aren't looking to be interviewed by the media.

I am sure that there are religious extremists everywhere that approve, sometimes vociferously, with disgusting and horrible acts of violence. You could probably find people here that think he did the right thing.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Culture and society are not the same thing. The majority of people in that region may dissapprove but this guy's culture (whatever it is) may very well not.

And monkeys may fly out of your butt. So what?

Frazod
06-20-2012, 02:56 PM
I am sure that there are religious extremists everywhere that approve, sometimes vociferously, with disgusting and horrible acts of violence. You could probably find people here that think he did the right thing.

I certainly approve of disgusting and horrible acts of violence perpetrated against religious extremists. All of them.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 02:56 PM
And monkeys may fly out of your butt. So what?

Sheesh. You said society. The person you responded to when you said "no, it's really not," said "culturally" acceptable. Get it?

Gonzo
06-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Every time I think I'm out... Frankie pulls me back in.

Here's how this is going to go down.

CP: Frankie, your people are asshats.
Frankie: Racists!
CP: Nuh uh, 159! 159! Mid Air! Motherfucker! Your Mom!
Frankie: Report post.
Me: God dammit
Phil: HA! Frankie is at it again.
Bwana: Fuck it. Ban some assholes!
Me: I'ma gonna go drink scotch from my son's sippy cup.
Flopnuts: What did I miss?
Phil: Frankie reported a post from Vailpass, Bwana banned him, now Zach is all pissed off and Gonzo is drunk.
Lumpy: Now Ima gotta clean up Gonzo Puke.
Me: BWAHAHAHAHALLLGRDERP

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Sheesh. You said society. The person you responded to when you said "no, it's really not," said "culturally" acceptable. Get it?

...and you are trying to imply acceptance by saying it may be so. You can imply anything by saying it may be so, Get it?

listopencil
06-20-2012, 02:59 PM
I certainly approve of disgusting and horrible acts of violence perpetrated against religious extremists. All of them.

:toast:

pr_capone
06-20-2012, 03:02 PM
What part of the name Singh did you not understand?! :shake:

Because people never change their religions or beliefs systems when their last name is Singh.

Your math is a little weak. But much less than your credibility as an expert on other cultures.:spock:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/a-question-of-honour-police-say-17000-women-are-victims-every-year-780522.html

A question of honour: Police say 17,000 women are victims every year. And that is just what is reported.

Aren't we glad wife-beating is never practiced here in America? :thumb:

:spock:

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Because people never change their religions or beliefs systems when their last name is Singh.

:spock:

I would say that most men in India with the last name of Singh are Sikh.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 03:04 PM
...and you are trying to imply acceptance by saying it may be so. You can imply anything by saying it may be so, Get it?

Just like you are trying to suggest that because they don't accept it in that society, that means that his culture doesn't accept it. I am not going to speak in absolutes about this guy's culture. I have not said anything definitive regarding this other than the fact that culture and society are not the same thing. The fact is that his culture MAY accept it, but they may not. I don't know for sure either way. This isn't hard.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:07 PM
Just like you are trying to suggest that because they don't accept it in that society, that means that his culture doesn't accept it. I am not going to speak in absolutes about this guy's culture. I have not said anything definitive regarding this other than the fact that culture and society are not the same thing. The fact is that his culture MAY accept it, but they may not. I don't know for sure either way. This isn't hard.

Do you know anything of Indian or Sikh culture? If not, is there anything in this article that implies his actions are acceptable or expected?

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Do you know anything of Indian or Sikh culture? If not, is there anything in this article that implies his actions are acceptable or expected?

I know enough to suggest the possibility that this man, a guy with no remorse about killing his daughter for honor, might be part of a culture in which this is acceptable. This is all I have done. I don't think that is even an arguing point because it is certainly possible. You are trying to paint me into a corner to get me to say that his actions are definitively acceptable, but that won't happen because I don't know. And this guy does not have to be Sikh because of his name so that is irrelevant.

pr_capone
06-20-2012, 03:16 PM
I would say that most men in India with the last name of Singh are Sikh.

I would agree. I would also venture to say that most people with the last name Gonzalez are Catholic. Just because the majority are doesn't mean that there is a minority that isn't.

/just sayin

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:23 PM
I know enough to suggest the possibility that this man, a guy with no remorse about killing his daughter for honor, might be part of a culture in which this is acceptable. This is all I have done. I don't think that is even an arguing point because it is certainly possible. You are trying to paint me into a corner to get me to say that his actions are definitively acceptable, but that won't happen because I don't know. And this guy does not have to be Sikh because of his name so that is irrelevant.


Once again, with the word "may" you can imply anything without having to validate your prejudices. It is true that there are people with the last name Singh who are not Sikh. There are some in India. Generally Singh implies Sikh, because Sikhs are required to be named either Singh (men) or Kaur (women) upon being baptized into the religion. From Wikipedia, but it appears to be correct:

Kaur is a name used by Sikh women either as the middle name, or as a last name. It can be regarded as a true surname.<sup class="Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]</sup> The tenth guru of Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Gobind_Singh), made it mandatory for Sikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh) females to use the name Kaur and for Sikh males to use the name Singh, when he administered Amrit (baptism) to both males and female Sikhs. All female Sikhs were asked to use the name Kaur after their forename and males were to use the name Singh. (Since 'Kaur' means 'Princess'&'Lioness', it acts as a symbol of equality among males and females.) This custom further confirmed the equality of both genders as was the tradition set by the founder of Sikhism, Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It was intended to give women a sense of self-respect. Singh is also used by some females because Singh can be a last name. It is the most common last name used by Sikhs.


Kaur provides Sikh women with a status equal to all men. This was also intended to reduce the prejudice created by caste-typing based on the family name. Prejudice based on caste was still rampant during Guru Gobind's time (17th century). This particularly affected women who were expected to take their husband's family name upon marriage.<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaur#cite_note-0)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaur#cite_note-1)</sup> The British required women to take on their husbands' names.


Sikh principles believe that all men and women are completely equal. Therefore, a woman is a princess and can lead her own life as an individual, equal to man. She does not need a man's title to raise her own status. Saying this would go against the principles stated in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the religious text of Sikhism.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I would agree. I would also venture to say that most people with the last name Gonzalez are Catholic. Just because the majority are doesn't mean that there is a minority that isn't.

/just sayin


It's a different situation than that. See my above post.

blaise
06-20-2012, 03:36 PM
You know, a story about a beheading should have been a time for us to make jokes and terrible puns.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 03:38 PM
Can we at least agree that there are some cultures in which honor killings are still acceptable? Unless this guy were a psychopath which it seems prior to this event that he wasn't, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this honor killing were a part of his culture? I concede that we don't necessarily know the guy's race or religion but that based on the information given (failed arranged marriage / promiscuous behavior) it seems that he did this in some misguided attempt to restore his family's honor.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 03:52 PM
Once again, with the word "may" you can imply anything without having to validate your prejudices. It is true that there are people with the last name Singh who are not Sikh. There are some in India. Generally Singh implies Sikh, because Sikhs are required to be named either Singh (men) or Kaur (women) upon being baptized into the religion. From Wikipedia, but it appears to be correct:

Kaur is a name used by Sikh women either as the middle name, or as a last name. It can be regarded as a true surname.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The tenth guru of Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Gobind_Singh), made it mandatory for Sikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh) females to use the name Kaur and for Sikh males to use the name Singh, when he administered Amrit (baptism) to both males and female Sikhs. All female Sikhs were asked to use the name Kaur after their forename and males were to use the name Singh. (Since 'Kaur' means 'Princess'&'Lioness', it acts as a symbol of equality among males and females.) This custom further confirmed the equality of both genders as was the tradition set by the founder of Sikhism, Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It was intended to give women a sense of self-respect. Singh is also used by some females because Singh can be a last name. It is the most common last name used by Sikhs.


Kaur provides Sikh women with a status equal to all men. This was also intended to reduce the prejudice created by caste-typing based on the family name. Prejudice based on caste was still rampant during Guru Gobind's time (17th century). This particularly affected women who were expected to take their husband's family name upon marriage.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaur#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaur#cite_note-1) The British required women to take on their husbands' names.


Sikh principles believe that all men and women are completely equal. Therefore, a woman is a princess and can lead her own life as an individual, equal to man. She does not need a man's title to raise her own status. Saying this would go against the principles stated in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the religious text of Sikhism.

So this guy wasn't Sikh apparently if we go by this. He certainly didn't seem to "believe that all men and women are completely equal. Therefore, a woman is a princess and can lead her own life as an individual, equal to man. She does not need a man's title to raise her own status." Especially given the arranged marriages and forcing her to move back, etc.

Edit-by the way WTF makes you think I have prejudices dick?

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 03:54 PM
So this guy wasn't Sikh apparently if we go by this. He certainly didn't seem to "believe that all men and women are completely equal. Therefore, a woman is a princess and can lead her own life as an individual, equal to man. She does not need a man's title to raise her own status." Especially given the arranged marriages and forcing her to move back, etc.

Repost

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:55 PM
So this guy wasn't Sikh apparently if we go by this. He certainly didn't seem to "believe that all men and women are completely equal. Therefore, a woman is a princess and can lead her own life as an individual, equal to man. She does not need a man's title to raise her own status." Especially given the arranged marriages and forcing her to move back, etc.

So you believe that no one makes decisions or commits acts that can be viewed as contrary to their religious beliefs?

listopencil
06-20-2012, 03:57 PM
Can we at least agree that there are some cultures in which honor killings are still acceptable? Unless this guy were a psychopath which it seems prior to this event that he wasn't, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this honor killing were a part of his culture? I concede that we don't necessarily know the guy's race or religion but that based on the information given (failed arranged marriage / promiscuous behavior) it seems that he did this in some misguided attempt to restore his family's honor.

If it was part of his culture then why are the members of his culture shocked by his actions?

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 03:59 PM
So you believe that no one makes decisions or commits acts that can be viewed as contrary to their religious beliefs?

Of course they do. But it seems your whole point was this guy is Sikh and for this reason his actions are not acceptable. Suggesting he is a lousy Sikh is the same as suggesting his culture might accept this if he isn't Sikh.

You might have missed my edit but WTF makes you think I have prejudices dick?

Otter
06-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Every time I think I'm out... Frankie pulls me back in.

Here's how this is going to go down.

CP: Frankie, your people are asshats.
Frankie: Racists!
CP: Nuh uh, 159! 159! Mid Air! Mother****er! Your Mom!
Frankie: Report post.
Me: God dammit
Phil: HA! Frankie is at it again.
Bwana: **** it. Ban some assholes!
Me: I'ma gonna go drink scotch from my son's sippy cup.
Flopnuts: What did I miss?
Phil: Frankie reported a post from Vailpass, Bwana banned him, now Zach is all pissed off and Gonzo is drunk.
Lumpy: Now Ima gotta clean up Gonzo Puke.
Me: BWAHAHAHAHALLLGRDERP

Drink a Guinness, they don't lose their head.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Can we at least agree that there are some cultures in which honor killings are still acceptable? Unless this guy were a psychopath which it seems prior to this event that he wasn't, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this honor killing were a part of his culture? I concede that we don't necessarily know the guy's race or religion but that based on the information given (failed arranged marriage / promiscuous behavior) it seems that he did this in some misguided attempt to restore his family's honor.

Here's a nice article apparently written by Gurmukh Singh of the Sikh Missionary Society in the UK.

http://www.sikhmissionarysociety.org/sms/smsarticles/advisorypanel/gurmukhsinghsewauk/sikhismandhonourkilling.html

I didn't see a date on the article. It concludes with:



However, religion or culture can offer no defence for "honour killing".

Sikhs should not lend any community sympathy or support in such cases. It is entirely for the lawyers to put in a plea if there are any mitigating circumstances in a criminal case. The sentence may or may not be reduced.
<small></small>

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:06 PM
If it was part of his culture then why are the members of his culture shocked by his actions?

What makes you think the people quoted in this article are part of his culture? I'm shocked when my neighbor listens to rap music. Does that mean I'm part of his culture.

Rain Man
06-20-2012, 04:06 PM
You know, a story about a beheading should have been a time for us to make jokes and terrible puns.

It was happening earlier in the thread, but then it got cut off.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:06 PM
Of course they do. But it seems your whole point was this guy is Sikh and for this reason his actions are not acceptable. Suggesting he is a lousy Sikh is the same as suggesting his culture might accept this if he isn't Sikh.

You might have missed my edit but WTF makes you think I have prejudices dick?

Nope, my point is that you are assuming his culture accepts honor killings even though the article in the OP clearly shows nothing of the kind. That displays your prejudice. Dick.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:08 PM
What makes you think the people quoted in this article are part of his culture? I'm shocked when my neighbor listens to rap music. Does that mean I'm part of his culture.

He's from a village in India. Where is his culture? Indiana?

Otter
06-20-2012, 04:09 PM
It was happening earlier in the thread, but then it got cut off.

It's almost as if we've become detached from the essance of what embodies ChiefsPlanet.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 04:09 PM
If it was part of his culture then why are the members of his culture shocked by his actions?

We don't even know what they were shocked by. Was it the killing itself? Or the fact that he carried the head through the streets with himself all bloodied up. The article is not clear on that in one way or another.

And considering her mother and sisters weren't even allowed to attend the funeral you cannot possibly sit there and say this culture has equal rights for women or that this man was some lone renegade in regards to how he treats women and that they all follow the Sikh ideas.

pr_capone
06-20-2012, 04:10 PM
It's a different situation than that. See my above post.

No... no it is not. Frankie made the assertion that based on his last name, he wasn't Muslim. I stated that basing his religion solely on his last name is fucking stupid.

My point is completely valid. The chances that he converted to Islam, or some other religion where honor killings are ok, is just as great as the chances that the guy is just a complete and total psychopath.

Unless I missed somewhere in the article that he is of a specific religion that is.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:11 PM
[SIZE=2]Here's a nice article apparently written by Gurmukh Singh of the Sikh Missionary Society in the UK.

http://www.sikhmissionarysociety.org/sms/smsarticles/advisorypanel/gurmukhsinghsewauk/sikhismandhonourkilling.html

I didn't see a date on the article. It concludes with:


I'm not sure that a UK Sikh is going to be the cultural equivalent. I would argue that any Westernized individual is going to find these events deplorable.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm not sure that a UK Sikh is going to be the cultural equivalent. I would argue that any Westernized individual is going to find these events deplorable.

Yes, I would take it one step further and say that this article is from a Western Sikh who feels the need to comment on actions carried out by Sikhs in the Eastern world. I don't believe that this guy is the cultural equivalent to the village beheader, but he is making a point that Sikhism does not excuse or accept honor killings.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:16 PM
He's from a village in India. Where is his culture? Indiana?

I don't have any idea what his culture is even despite the assumptions posted here. The only assumption I can make is that the guy thought chopping his daughter's head off and carrying it through the street was the answer to his problems. That leads me to believe that he believed that honor killings were acceptable. I could be wrong. Perhaps he just had a fit of rage and lost control. That's entirely plausible as well.

Otter
06-20-2012, 04:16 PM
I'm not sure that a UK Sikh is going to be the cultural equivalent. I would argue that any Westernized individual is going to find these events deplorable.

A Westernized man is heads and tails above these actions.

Otter
06-20-2012, 04:17 PM
I don't have any idea what his culture is even despite the assumptions posted here. The only assumption I can make is that the guy thought chopping his daughter's head off and carrying it through the street was the answer to his problems. That leads me to believe that he believed that honor killings were acceptable. I could be wrong. Perhaps he just had a fit of rage and lost control. That's entirely plausible as well.

Phil, if you're not even going to try I'm heading off to happy hour.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:18 PM
We don't even know what they were shocked by. Was it the killing itself? Or the fact that he carried the head through the streets with himself all bloodied up. The article is not clear on that in one way or another.

And considering her mother and sisters weren't even allowed to attend the funeral you cannot possibly sit there and say this culture has equal rights for women or that this man was some lone renegade in regards to how he treats women and that they all follow the Sikh ideas.

Well, the article states that women lined the streets and wailed, and that villagers condemned his actions as extreme. And no I don't believe that the rules in this village are anywhere near what we would consider as equal rights for men and women. All we have to go on are the comments of the villagers and his assumed faith.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:20 PM
Phil, if you're not even going to try I'm heading off to happy hour.

Been a rough week. I'm not really in the mood to cut-up.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 04:21 PM
Well, the article states that women lined the streets and wailed, and that villagers condemned his actions as extreme. And no I don't believe that the rules in this village are anywhere near what we would consider as equal rights for men and women. All we have to go on are the comments of the villagers and his assumed faith.

You are the only one assuming his faith.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:22 PM
No... no it is not. Frankie made the assertion that based on his last name, he wasn't Muslim. I stated that basing his religion solely on his last name is ****ing stupid.

My point is completely valid. The chances that he converted to Islam, or some other religion where honor killings are ok, is just as great as the chances that the guy is just a complete and total psychopath.

Unless I missed somewhere in the article that he is of a specific religion that is.

Sue. He could be Islamic. It's not impossible. It's just unlikely. The difference is that while people of certain ethnicity in our country tend to belong to certain religious faiths, Sikhs take on a name when baptized. It causes problems for immigrants.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:23 PM
You are the only one assuming his faith.


I have good reason. A man in India with the last name of Singh tends to be Sikh. It is just an assumption. It's not necessarily true. But it's likely based on observable data.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 04:24 PM
Nope, my point is that you are assuming his culture accepts honor killings even though the article in the OP clearly shows nothing of the kind. That displays your prejudice. Dick.

I am not assuming anything. I said his culture, whatever it is, MAY OR MAY NOT accept it because I don't know his culture for sure so I cannot say for sure. Why is that so hard for you? I suppose you are just trying to bait me into saying something :shrug:

You just cannot contemplate the idea that these people in the article may not be part of this man's culture. What you think the people who support his actions, if there are any in the area, are going to just come out and say he did the right thing?

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:27 PM
I am not assuming anything. I said his culture, whatever it is, MAY OR MAY NOT accept it because I don't know his culture for sure so I cannot say for sure. Why is that so hard for you? I suppose you are just trying to bait me into saying something :shrug:

You just cannot contemplate the idea that these people in the article may not be part of this man's culture. What you think the people who support his actions, if there are any in the area, are going to just come out and say he did the right thing?

He's from a village in India. Where is his culture? Indiana?

Frankie
06-20-2012, 04:27 PM
In your own words you "didn't get along with your uninformed opinion." Not my words.

Are you denying stonings occur? If so YOU are the one who is blinded.
:facepalm:

What's wrong with it is you are making uninformed statements and presenting them as facts. This thread is about some beheading in India by a non-Muslim, but if you want to make it about Muslims at least do your homework. Stoning has happened, in some parts of the Muslim world while the global political climate has helped the radical side of that world to surface in some parts. That does not mean that Muslims practice stoning as a norm. No more than you practicing serial killing or shooting up McDonald's because you are an American.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 04:28 PM
He's from a village in India. Where is his culture? Indiana?

I am sure Indiana has plenty of people from India living there and some born and raised there. They are from Indiana. What is their culture?

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:29 PM
You just cannot contemplate the idea that these people in the article may not be part of this man's culture. What you think the people who support his actions, if there are any in the area, are going to just come out and say he did the right thing?

Not only that but some media personnel report whatever supports their agenda. I've been quoted many times and even on camera had my comments stripped down to where is suited the agenda of the reporters. That's in Missouri. Can you imagine how much more it might happen elsewhere?

Phobia
06-20-2012, 04:31 PM
He's from a village in India. Where is his culture? Indiana?

That argument doesn't hold any water for me. Culture isn't necessarily dictated by geography.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:32 PM
I am sure Indiana has plenty of people from India living there and some born and raised there. They are from Indiana. What is their culture?

Well, I can speak from substantial experience regarding Sikhs in America who have migrated from India. The ones, usually men, who go out into our society tend to adapt and adopt some of American culture. Their are, however, a million shades of grey involved.

mr. tegu
06-20-2012, 04:34 PM
Not my words.


:spock:

Making ignorant blind comments about other cultures you don't know anything about is what derails conversations. Correcting puts the conversation back on the rail. I didn't go along with your uninformed opinion so I "derailed" this conversation!... Nice! :shake:

I guess I was quoting another Frankie.

:facepalm:

What's wrong with it is you are making uninformed statements and presenting them as facts. This thread is about some beheading in India by a non-Muslim, but if you want to make it about Muslims at least do your homework. Stoning has happened, in some parts of the Muslim world while the global political climate has helped the radical side of that world to surface in some parts. That does not mean that Muslims practice stoning as a norm. No more than you practicing serial killing or shooting up McDonald's because you are an American.

I never presented anything as fact that wasn't a fact. Stonings do occur as I described them. It was my thought that this guy might belong to a culture that practices them based on his actions.

listopencil
06-20-2012, 04:34 PM
That argument doesn't hold any water for me. Culture isn't necessarily dictated by geography.

Of course not. But villagers in India tend not to stray from their villages much, especially men. At least not enough to absorb a culture that is different from the one they were raised in.

Kirby
06-20-2012, 05:38 PM
She won't be getting ahead in this lifetime.

thurman merman
06-20-2012, 06:30 PM
It's culturally acceptable and even expected in that guy's culture.

Then why did he turn himself into the police?

thurman merman
06-20-2012, 06:32 PM
No, it's really not.

From the article:

Residents of Dungarji village expressed shock as they performed the last rites for the 20-year-old woman.

Villagers condemned the father's actions as extreme.

"It was a ghastly sight," officer Ranjit Singh said, describing the father sitting in the station's waiting room holding the head in one hand and the sword in the other.


There is nothing in this article that would imply that his actions were condoned, acceptable or expected by his society.

Thank you. I'm not sure where everybody is coming up with the idea that this is culturally acceptable or in any way normal.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 06:40 PM
Then why did he turn himself into the police?

So nobody would be harassing O.J. Simpson over the ordeal.

Just Passin' By
06-20-2012, 07:03 PM
Thank you. I'm not sure where everybody is coming up with the idea that this is culturally acceptable or in any way normal.

I remember a scene in a movie where a policeman was shocked to find out about gambling in a nightclub, too.

HonestChieffan
06-20-2012, 08:21 PM
Then why did he turn himself into the police?

He didn't really turn himself in, he was giving them a heads up before the rumors began.

Hog Farmer
06-20-2012, 08:24 PM
I think we should begin a religious following in Chiefs nation. Lets say ,if the Quarterback doesn't attempt to look downfield and throw the fucking ball to the reciever that's wide ass fucking open then we as fans have the right to stone him to death. And by the way I own a rock yard and have tons of river rock available.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 08:30 PM
He didn't really turn himself in, he was giving them a heads up before the rumors began.

The rumors said she had a really nice body.

HonestChieffan
06-20-2012, 08:31 PM
The rumors said she had a really nice body.

Yea but her old man was a boob.

Frankie
06-20-2012, 09:03 PM
Every time I think I'm out... Frankie pulls me back in.

Here's how this is going to go down.

CP: Frankie, your people are asshats.
Frankie: Racists!
CP: Nuh uh, 159! 159! Mid Air! Mother****er! Your Mom!
Frankie: Report post.
Me: God dammit
Phil: HA! Frankie is at it again.
Bwana: **** it. Ban some assholes!
Me: I'ma gonna go drink scotch from my son's sippy cup.
Flopnuts: What did I miss?
Phil: Frankie reported a post from Vailpass, Bwana banned him, now Zach is all pissed off and Gonzo is drunk.
Lumpy: Now Ima gotta clean up Gonzo Puke.
Me: BWAHAHAHAHALLLGRDERP

Good comedy. Also good fiction. All I have EVER reported on 'out of line' posts was over ONE occasion just to document the persistent assholery that was going down that the Mods weren't doing anything about. Instead they graciously took away my reporting privilegesI To this day I don't have that feature. So your post is wrong. I don't need the 'report post' feature. I have found better ways to solve such problems.

But like I said, good comedy. :)

Frankie
06-20-2012, 09:06 PM
Because people never change their religions or beliefs systems when their last name is Singh.

Oh shit you are right. This Singh guy was a Muslim and as soon as he turned Muslim he beheaded his daughter. Silly me.


I would say that most men in India with the last name of Singh are Sikh.I would say all are. Those religions are strict and those names are very indicative of their religion. They do not retain those names and turn Muslim. But don't tell Capone this.

Come to think of it, given the animosities there, turning Muslim is probably a lot more dishonoring for a Sikh or a Hindu than their daughter sleeping around.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 09:10 PM
Oh shit you are right. This Singh guy was a Muslim and as soon as he turned Muslim he beheaded his daughter. Silly me.

Now this is the first post in this entire thread I've believed.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 09:11 PM
Good comedy. Also good fiction.

I could have typed this post word for word. You're right. We get a lot of reported Frankie visitor messages from people who like to push your buttons and then whine when you push back.

Frankie
06-20-2012, 09:23 PM
Can we at least agree that there are some cultures in which honor killings are still acceptable?

Only small cultures within larger ones.
You are the only one assuming his faith.Correction, you are the only one wanting to prove he was Muslim.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Correction, you are the only one wanting to prove he was Muslim.

Why would anybody ever assume that a Muslim would brutally murder another human being for some irrational reason?

Frankie
06-20-2012, 09:28 PM
:spock:

I guess I was quoting another Frankie.No, you were attempting to quote me but you botched it. There are two very different connotations when you say "get along" or "go along."

I never presented anything as fact that wasn't a fact. Stonings do occur as I described them. It was my thought that this guy might belong to a culture that practices them based on his actions.
To the best of my knowledge stoning was a Hebrew/Biblical practice to begin with. I have never heard of that form of punishment from the Indian peninsula. But who knows?

Otter
06-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Been a rough week. I'm not really in the mood to cut-up.

:hmmm:

Otter
06-20-2012, 09:32 PM
Every time Frankie enters a thread like this I cringe with thoughts of cousin Eddie entering a academic lecture via the stage with no pants on. But I do watch with macabre fascination.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 09:34 PM
To the best of my knowledge stoning was a Hebrew/Biblical practice to begin with. I have never heard of that form of punishment from the Indian peninsula. But who knows?

Perhaps I'm being a little too nitpicky but I'm not sure that anybody can accurately term stoning as a "biblical practice". There are stories of stonings which are told in the bible, certainly. But I don't think you can call it a biblical practice any more than you can call a plane breaking apart in midair a "CNN practice".

Saulbadguy
06-20-2012, 09:35 PM
Why would anybody ever assume that a Muslim would brutally murder another human being for some irrational reason?

Murder is always irrational.

Phobia
06-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Murder is always irrational.

I can't find any reason to disagree. Thank you for your point.

ForeverChiefs58
06-20-2012, 10:14 PM
I heard she gave the best head

stevieray
06-20-2012, 10:34 PM
Murder is always irrational.
....like the cop who shot the guy eating the other guy's face?

"don't kill him mac, it's not rational"

wazu
06-20-2012, 10:36 PM
When this guy's wife asked him to reciprocate and give her head for once, I doubt this is what she had in mind.

BillSelfsTrophycase
06-20-2012, 11:46 PM
This is not the way to get ahead in life

Phobia
06-21-2012, 12:00 AM
Technically, it's a guaranteed way to get a head in life.

rred
06-21-2012, 12:40 AM
....like the cop who shot the guy eating the other guy's face?

"don't kill him mac, it's not rational"

Life is getting deep.

qabbaan
06-21-2012, 05:14 AM
Frankie is the only person I know who always enters a battle of wits unarmed.

Saulbadguy
06-21-2012, 05:18 AM
....like the cop who shot the guy eating the other guy's face?

"don't kill him mac, it's not rational"

That's not murder by definition.

|Zach|
06-21-2012, 05:27 AM
Frankie is the only person I know who always enters a battle of wits unarmed.

LMAO

ForeverChiefs58
06-21-2012, 07:07 AM
This is exactly why I despise Frankie so damn much. Well, one of the 159 reasons.

As soon as muslims are brought up, he always brings up America, and tries to compare the savagery of his culture, with Americans and the Manson murders or a shooting at a McDonalds.

:shake:

Phobia
06-21-2012, 08:42 AM
This is exactly why I despise Frankie so damn much. Well, one of the 159 reasons.

As soon as muslims are brought up, he always brings up America, and tries to compare the savagery of his culture, with Americans and the Manson murders or a shooting at a McDonalds.

:shake:

I get the Frankie hate. I do. I don't participate directly mostly because I have a strange relationship with the man where I put a slightly humorous spin on some of the strange stuff he posts so we can both get a laugh out of it and not be mortal enemies and I don't have to worry about anybody spiking my slurpie. But I don't understand why you continue to complain about how awful Frankie is and how he follows you around the board when you just followed him around the board to this thread.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Frankie is the only person I know who always enters a battle of wits unarmed.

Say what floats your boat. But your boat has no oars as evident by this very post.

el borracho
06-21-2012, 09:27 AM
He's the one who named her "Manjuice". What did he expect?

Frankie
06-21-2012, 09:27 AM
I heard she gave the best head

Late to the party and lame as ever. Where have you been hiding, FC?

Frankie
06-21-2012, 09:32 AM
Every time Frankie enters a thread like this I cringe with thoughts of cousin Eddie entering a academic lecture via the stage with no pants on. But I do watch with macabre fascination.

Your comparing this forum to an academic anything really discredits your comparing me to cousin Eddie, leaving one to believe you must have some pent up grudge from a past intellectual mauling. Hopefully making this personal makes your boo boo feel better.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Perhaps I'm being a little too nitpicky but I'm not sure that anybody can accurately term stoning as a "biblical practice". There are stories of stonings which are told in the bible, certainly. But I don't think you can call it a biblical practice any more than you can call a plane breaking apart in midair a "CNN practice".

By "Biblical practice" I did mean as told in the Bible. I was just trying geographize (new word I just coined) the practice. Neither the Bible, nor the Quran prescribes, to the best of my understanding.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 09:42 AM
This is exactly why I despise Frankie so damn much. Well, one of the 159 reasons.

As soon as muslims are brought up, he always brings up America, and tries to compare the savagery of his culture, with Americans and the Manson murders or a shooting at a McDonalds.

:shake:

In other words, "he brings reasoning into the conversation to interrupt my total blissful ignorance and sweet bigoted biases." ROFL

Despise away little man.

ForeverChiefs58
06-21-2012, 09:58 AM
I get the Frankie hate. I do. I don't participate directly mostly because I have a strange relationship with the man where I put a slightly humorous spin on some of the strange stuff he posts so we can both get a laugh out of it and not be mortal enemies and I don't have to worry about anybody spiking my slurpie. But I don't understand why you continue to complain about how awful Frankie is and how he follows you around the board when you just followed him around the board to this thread.



Yeah, I followed him here. :spock: Like I clicked on the thread just hoping Frankie had joined the convo.:spock: Although, I did think I smelled him in this thread...then I realized my dog took a shit on the floor.

Or do you mean like the Kate Upton thread where I posted 100 threads and then that fucking Flunkie comes in there not to add to it of course, but with the only purpose of fucking up one of the best threads on the internet?

Yes, he says a lot of things that are very offensive as an American. I wondered how you did it. I don't really care for slurpies, so I'm ok.

I really tried with him, even reached out to wish him well in some of his awesome "precious soul's" and fire jumping threads. But, he continued his stupid, ridiculous anti American crap. I don't even get what the hell he is even doing in this country. I don't. He defends the actions of muslims and iran to no end with very little rational thought.

His "America is bad too just look at Charles Manson", or "Christians are are just as bad as terrorists" and other Phelps kind of idiocy he throws out is like watching a plane break apart in mid air.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 10:01 AM
But I don't understand why you continue to complain about how awful Frankie is and how he follows you around the board when you just followed him around the board to this thread.

Heh, that's not the half of it. You should read the two messages I got from him last night. He left the much tamer one on my visitor's page while he wished that "someone would do an honor killing on" me, in a PM.

I really don't know how these crazies get ANY support in this forum. Yet there are his peers failpisses and Tom Cashes of this world (along with an assortment of other asshurts) who always embolden this weasel.

I figure if you don't agree with my posts debate them with me. But as soon as someone starts to bring in personal condescension to the field, I can play that game with the best of them,... and I will.

stevieray
06-21-2012, 10:04 AM
That's not murder by definition.

it applies.

murder is intentional or malicious.

sometimes it's necessary.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I followed him here. :spock: Like I clicked on the thread just hoping Frankie had joined the convo.:spock: Although, I did think I smelled him in this thread...then I realized my dog took a shit on the floor. Classy. So we get into this territory now. Be warned and don't scream like a 50cent/hour whore when I reciprocate in kind.

Or do you mean like the Kate Upton thread where I posted 100 threads and then that ****ing Flunkie comes in there not to add to it of course, but with the only purpose of ****ing up one of the best threads on the internet?You of course conveniently left out the fact that you were given 24 hours to undo the blatant cowardly lies you posted about me. You failed to do so and I just showed a sample of how I was going to clean up runny excrements (oops so soon) like you. I did not say anything offensive then. You just panicked and went berserk as you always do.

Yes, he says a lot of things that are very offensive as an American. Only to the stupid and the bigoted among Americans. You have a narrow thought process. You are incapable of analyzing what one is saying or whether something said can mean something other than what the voices in your head tell you. You misunderstand points all over the place and react like a banshee. Then when you are stood up to, you cry foul and/or go hide for days. In short, you my friend, are a head case. BTW, weren't you the one that was asked by a lot of posters to go seek help before you might even do something violent to your family? I think that was you. I wish I had the time to go look for that particular thread.

He defends the actions of muslims and iran to no end with very little rational thought.

His "America is bad too just look at Charles Manson", or "Christians are are just as bad as terrorists" and other Phelps kind of idiocy he throws out is like watching a plane break apart in mid air.Again your stupidity knows no bounds. I do not defend Islam or Iran. I do defend against unfair, uninformed attacks by folks who have no knowledge of what they are talking about. I have done this in my life many times against the bigots on the other side as well, when I have defended 'the people' of the Jewish or Christian persuasion, warning that they should not be painted with the same brush as the ideologues among them.

Some debate partners, I always hope, will eventually see the reasoning. You, on the other hand, are happy living in your make believe world in which everyone Christian, Jewish, American is automatically without sin while all Muslims, Hindus, etc. are animals. Then you post here and send paranoid PMs bitching that your ass feels "threatened."

Saulbadguy
06-21-2012, 10:43 AM
it applies.

murder is intentional or malicious.

sometimes it's necessary.

Sometimes manslaughter, or simply killing another human being is necessary.

Murder is not.

ForeverChiefs58
06-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Durka Durpa Doo



My scooby doo translater isn't working, so just go fuck yourself.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 11:21 AM
My scooby doo translater isn't working, so just go **** yourself.

You're feeling "threatened," aren't you?

vailpass
06-21-2012, 11:50 AM
Every time I think I'm out... Frankie pulls me back in.

Here's how this is going to go down.

CP: Frankie, your people are asshats.
Frankie: Racists!
CP: Nuh uh, 159! 159! Mid Air! Mother****er! Your Mom!
Frankie: Report post.
Me: God dammit
Phil: HA! Frankie is at it again.
Bwana: **** it. Ban some assholes!
Me: I'ma gonna go drink scotch from my son's sippy cup.
Flopnuts: What did I miss?
Phil: Frankie reported a post from Vailpass, Bwana banned him, now Zach is all pissed off and Gonzo is drunk.
Lumpy: Now Ima gotta clean up Gonzo Puke.
Me: BWAHAHAHAHALLLGRDERP

ROFL

mr. tegu
06-21-2012, 12:00 PM
Correction, you are the only one wanting to prove he was Muslim.

Show me one post, just one little thing I said where I said anything about this guy being Muslim or me saying I think he is Muslim or me trying to prove he is Muslim. Can you do that for me? I didn't think so. In fact I said repeatedly I don't know what his culture is, but have said over and over again, whatever it is, IMO it might accept this type of behavior based solely on the fact that he performed it, and in combination with the other things (lack of remorse, arranged marriages, he wanted to redeem the honor of the family) it might be acceptable in his culture. You infer and seek fights where there is nothing.

J Diddy
06-21-2012, 12:15 PM
By "Biblical practice" I did mean as told in the Bible. I was just trying geographize (new word I just coined) the practice. Neither the Bible, nor the Quran prescribes, to the best of my understanding.

Stoning is neither a Christian or a Muslim practice. It is a practice more commonly used at Snoop Dogg concerts.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 12:32 PM
Show me one post, just one little thing I said where I said anything about this guy being Muslim or me saying I think he is Muslim or me trying to prove he is Muslim. Can you do that for me? I didn't think so. In fact I said repeatedly I don't know what his culture is, but have said over and over again, whatever it is, IMO it might accept this type of behavior based solely on the fact that he performed it, and in combination with the other things (lack of remorse, arranged marriages, he wanted to redeem the honor of the family) it might be acceptable in his culture. You infer and seek fights where there is nothing.

This is your grand entrance into the debate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSRVtlTwFs8

You obviously thought the guy was a Muslim and here was your chance to take a shot. Stoning has been revived in radical corners of the "Islamic" world, but it is practiced only by the most backward, uneducated, socio-economically deprived minority. It happens far too often but still few and far between. This thread was not even about a stoning incident, but you wanted to make it so. So there lies my objection.

mr. tegu
06-21-2012, 12:46 PM
This is your grand entrance into the debate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSRVtlTwFs8

You obviously thought the guy was a Muslim and here was your chance to take a shot. Stoning has been revived in radical corners of the "Islamic" world, but it is practiced only by the most backward, uneducated, socio-economically deprived minority. It happens far too often but still few and far between. This thread was not even about a stoning incident, but you wanted to make it so. So there lies my objection.

So now you know what I was thinking...:shake: My "chance to take a shot?" That is so stupid. I will say it again. You are looking for an argument where one does not exist. This is a problem with yourself only because you are inferring something that doesn't exist. I had no intention of making this about stoning and was merely using that as another example how extreme people can get with honor killings.

Frankie
06-21-2012, 12:52 PM
So now you know what I was thinking...:shake: My "chance to take a shot?" That is so stupid. I will say it again. You are looking for an argument where one does not exist. This is a problem with yourself only because you are inferring something that doesn't exist. I had no intention of making this about stoning and was merely using that as another example how extreme people can get with honor killings.

Sorry if I don't believe you, for now. But I'll watch your other posts in the future to see if my analysis of you is wrong. If I am I'll have no problem admitting it.

mr. tegu
06-21-2012, 12:57 PM
Sorry if I don't believe you, for now. But I'll watch your other posts in the future to see if my analysis of you is wrong. If I am I'll have no problem admitting it.

Okay that's fine. Just don't expect anything. It might help to know that I nonjudgmental and without prejudice for a living.