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HonestChieffan
06-28-2012, 02:41 PM
This will get interesting now

banyon
06-28-2012, 02:44 PM
Won't it just get appealed?

La literatura
06-28-2012, 02:47 PM
Does it go to a grand jury, and then what? He could get fined? What are the likely and worst case scenarios?

vailpass
06-28-2012, 02:53 PM
Wow, first time in US history. Didn't know that.


The House of Representatives on Thursday voted to hold Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt for failing to disclose internal Justice Department documents in response to a subpoena. It was the first time in American history that Congress has imposed that sanction on a sitting member of a president’s cabinet.


The vote – 255 to 67, with one member voting present – followed an acrimonious and politically charged debate. Many Democrats walked out of the chamber in protest without voting, accusing Republicans of railroading the motion so they could inflict political damage on the Obama administration during an election year.

The politically and constitutionally charged dispute centers on whether the Justice Department must turn over e-mails and memorandums showing its internal deliberations last year as officials grappled with a Congressional investigation about the botched Arizona-based gunrunning investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious. President Obama has invoked executive privilege to block the subpoena.... (more story follows)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/politics/fast-and-furious-holder-contempt-citation-battle.html?pagewanted=all

vailpass
06-28-2012, 02:57 PM
Does it go to a grand jury, and then what? He could get fined? What are the likely and worst case scenarios?

Doesn't look like much...

A citation for contempt of Congress carries symbolic weight, but its practical impact is limited because the executive branch controls prosecution decisions.

In the 2008 case, when the parties’ positions were reversed, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey wrote a letter to Nancy Pelosi, then the House speaker, saying that prosecutors would not convene a grand jury or charge the two officials who were cited, because Mr. Bush had invoked executive privilege over the information Congress had subpoenaed so the Justice Department did not consider their failure to provide the information a crime.

The Obama Justice Department has been preparing a similarly worded letter to the current House speaker, John A. Boehner, according to officials familiar with the internal discussions. Because the contempt citation was leveled against Mr. Holder, it appeared that the letter would be signed by the deputy attorney general, James Cole, and would be sent either late Thursday or on Friday, the officials said.

But I found this interesting...

The Obama administration has declined to release the documents, invoking a form of executive privilege that protects agency deliberations from disclosure in order to preserve the candor of internal executive branch discussions.

There is little Supreme Court precedent to guide how far that form of the privilege – which is considered to be weaker than a form that protects communications involving the president and the White House – extends in response to a Congressional subpoena.

Despite Mr. Obama’s assertion of executive privilege, the Justice Department has offered to give Congress several hundred of the disputed documents if Republicans scrap the contempt recommendation. The White House on Tuesday allowed Republican staffers to scan about a dozen of them, which it portrayed as a representative sample. But the two sides failed to reach a deal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/politics/fast-and-furious-holder-contempt-citation-battle.html?pagewanted=all

Bewbies
06-28-2012, 02:58 PM
Wow, first time in US history. Didn't know that.


The House of Representatives on Thursday voted to hold Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt for failing to disclose internal Justice Department documents in response to a subpoena. It was the first time in American history that Congress has imposed that sanction on a sitting member of a president’s cabinet.


The vote – 255 to 67, with one member voting present – followed an acrimonious and politically charged debate. Many Democrats walked out of the chamber in protest without voting, accusing Republicans of railroading the motion so they could inflict political damage on the Obama administration during an election year.

The politically and constitutionally charged dispute centers on whether the Justice Department must turn over e-mails and memorandums showing its internal deliberations last year as officials grappled with a Congressional investigation about the botched Arizona-based gunrunning investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious. President Obama has invoked executive privilege to block the subpoena.... (more story follows)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/politics/fast-and-furious-holder-contempt-citation-battle.html?pagewanted=all

I didn't know Obama had a vote?

Bewbies
06-28-2012, 02:59 PM
255 racists, 67 non racists.

VAChief
06-28-2012, 03:31 PM
255 racists, 67 non racists.

422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2012, 03:33 PM
255 racists, 67 non racists.

Someone is just bitter.

vailpass
06-28-2012, 03:34 PM
422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

In your view is Holder a competent AG? Do you feel he has handled F&F and the subsequent inquiry as well as it could have possibly been handled?

LiveSteam
06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
Are we saved yet?

Oh wait/ That happened this morning

ChiTown
06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

That is just a solid fact. Well done!:LOL:

FD
06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

Yep.

The_Grand_Illusion
06-28-2012, 03:37 PM
422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

:rolleyes:

No one died as a result of a botched program under those guys you mention. This goes beyond party politics.

TGI

vailpass
06-28-2012, 03:37 PM
Yep.

LMAO

cosmo20002
06-28-2012, 03:42 PM
422 partisans 0 thoughtful representatives. Had this been Gonzalez or Ashcroft the numbers would just be reversed, anyone believing otherwise is naive at best.

I would disagree, since, you know, that didn't happen.

Setsuna
06-28-2012, 03:45 PM
:rolleyes:

No one died as a result of a botched program under those guys you mention. This goes beyond party politics.

TGI

Don't bother. Civil and criminal contempt. Awesome. Walking off the floor is childish whether a Dem or a Rep does it. Have some balls and vote fools.

Ugly Duck
06-28-2012, 03:46 PM
255 racists, 67 non racists.

Most Dems refused to participate in the ridiculous exercise - they walked out during the debacle. Republis demanded docs that are illegal for Holder to divulge, so this sillyness made him a criminal no matter which way he went. Might as well just let the Republis play out their charade. I believe it's his own department who will decide what "punishment" to give their boss.

VAChief
06-28-2012, 04:03 PM
:rolleyes:

No one died as a result of a botched program under those guys you mention. This goes beyond party politics.

TGI

This about a botched program? Really? Issa himself doesn't know what it is about.

The_Grand_Illusion
06-28-2012, 04:08 PM
This about a botched program? Really? Issa himself doesn't know what it is about.

Don't play stupid.

LVNHACK
06-28-2012, 04:12 PM
Don't play stupid.


How do you know he's playing ?

Mr. Kotter
06-28-2012, 04:14 PM
Most Dems refused to participate in the ridiculous exercise - they walked out during the debacle. Republis demanded docs that are illegal for Holder to divulge, so this sillyness made him a criminal no matter which way he went. Might as well just let the Republis play out their charade. I believe it's his own department who will decide what "punishment" to give their boss.

Yep. Dead on.

Iz Zat Chew
06-28-2012, 04:33 PM
255 racists, 67 non racists.

What I saw was that the democrats didn't want to stand up for Holder. I would say that everyone that walked out was a racist and those that stayed and voted were loyal Americans.

petegz28
06-28-2012, 06:02 PM
Yep. Dead on.

Really? They stuck up for him by walking out on him and not voting in his favor?