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Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:06 PM
The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

Almost like watching your dog die. :(

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:07 PM
At my midnight opening, the whole theater was pindrop silent all film, until that reveal of Bane and Hathaway at the table, and then they roared; it was as close to the Great Movie Roar* as I've yet to experience.


And again I kick myself for skipping a midnight showing. :facepalm:

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:39 PM
Was I the only one that thought the movie was going to abruptly end when Alfred looked up at the cafe?

I think a Sopranos-like ending would have been incredible.

I actually thought it was gonna end right there, and that was Alfred coming to terms with Bruce's death.

And then OHMIGODBATMANISSTILLALIVESQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Also, for those unhappy with the speed of that recovery, note that for time-compression purposes they didn't actually say his back was broken, but that he ultimately had a protruding vertebrae (hence the reason he could rehab in 5 months).

How does Batman's back mend in the comics?

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:51 PM
Yep. I made a point to pay close attention during my second viewing tonight.

He couldn't have dropped it in the bay, as JD just pointed out.

So that leaves two options:

Either he bailed out at some point over the water, and let auto-pilot take over. Unlikely he'd survive considering it's winter-time, the rivers were iced over, the water in the bay would be freezing.

Or, he bailed just after struggling to gain enough altitude to clear that building (was the Bat Lucious took the EMP out of on top of this building?) with the explosion (Blake's "it's starting" comment on bridge") creating a diversion for the switch?

Again, maybe I'm off base here, but I really think there are three Bats.

1.) After the Wall Street scene, Bruce comes back to Wayne Manor in a Bat, and parks it in the cave.

2.) The next time we see a Bat, it's parked on the roof of a building - the Bat Fox takes the EMP out of.

3.) There is a gray, unpainted Bat in Applied Sciences in the beginning of the movie, and this appears to be the same Bat that techs are looking at with Fox at the end - they claim the auto-pilot software was patched 6 months ago.

All three could have been in play. We know at least two of them were.

The only other thing I can think of if he didn't physically switch Bats is that he flew out to sea, and the cockpit itself broke into a smaller vehicle, much like the BatPod did when the Tumbler was incapacitated. He then flew off, letting the auto-pilot take over for what was left of the Bat.

You'd have to think someone would notice this though, which makes me think he bailed earlier, potentially under the cover of that exploding building.

BATPACK

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3/10364-RocketeerJetPack.jpg

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 02:54 PM
The score is simply amazing for this film as well...

Super anxious to go again

No it's not.

90 percent of it was just rehashed from The Dark Knight.

The bits with chanting were fresh, though.

Overall a lazy effort from Zimmer.

JD10367
07-23-2012, 03:31 PM
I actually thought it was gonna end right there, and that was Alfred coming to terms with Bruce's death.

And then OHMIGODBATMANISSTILLALIVESQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just had my 10th viewing, and I still get a little choked up at the end. The look on Caine's face, the slight smile and nod, and the salute from Bale... Just a great ending.

And, for the record, the spinning top at the end of "Inception" pissed me off, LOL.

As humans, we don't like ambiguous answers. We all have the Biggest Ambiguous Answer Of All hanging over our heads (death); in our escapism, we like to have it neat and tidy and preferably happy.

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 03:39 PM
Can someone explain to me why Selina fucks over Bruce? I don't understand her motivation there at all.

Nightfyre
07-23-2012, 03:46 PM
Can someone explain to me why Selina ****s over Bruce? I don't understand her motivation there at all.

Survival.

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 03:52 PM
Survival?

Why go into the lion's den in the first place, then?

Silock
07-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Survival for sure, but she didn't know that he was going to get so fucked up. That's why she helped him at the end. She saw firsthand the consequences and couldn't let that happen again.

Nightfyre
07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
Survival?

Why go into the lion's den in the first place, then?

She needed to give Bane Batman to ensure her safety. However, she didn't know he was Bruce Wayne until Bane revealed it.

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Oh, well that makes sense now.

I always tend to leave Nolan's Batman films going WTF on a few things.

Also, I was waiting for Batman to play a game of Batwing chicken with Bane, wherein Bane yanks an extra extra extra long revolver out of his pants and shoots the batwing down. So disappointed.

mr. tegu
07-23-2012, 04:32 PM
And, for the record, the spinning top at the end of "Inception" pissed me off, LOL.
Thanks for reminding me! :cuss:

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 04:41 PM
Nolan should try and do a Deus Ex movie next.

He'd kick total ass with that concept, and the tone of his Batman films fit well.

CoMoChief
07-23-2012, 04:45 PM
God Damnit I want them to make another one. Nolan could make The Riddler into a fuckin badass.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-23-2012, 04:46 PM
Nolan should try and do a Deus Ex movie next.

He'd kick total ass with that concept, and the tone of his Batman films fit well.

I bet he'd make a hell of a Gods of War adaptation.

Sure-Oz
07-23-2012, 05:44 PM
Can someone explain to me why Selina ****s over Bruce? I don't understand her motivation there at all.

I thought the score throughout the whole series helped make the movie. Should've been more clear than just 'this film'

Count Zarth
07-23-2012, 05:52 PM
I thought the score throughout the whole series helped make the movie. Should've been more clear than just 'this film'

Compare the score from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They were both very clear and distinctive scores.

For #3 Zimmer just ripped himself off mostly. It was an OK score but he can do better.

Sure-Oz
07-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Compare the score from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They were both very clear and distinctive scores.

For #3 Zimmer just ripped himself off mostly. It was an OK score but he can do better.

can't argue that for sure, agreed.

Red Brooklyn
07-23-2012, 07:42 PM
No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.

I don't think it's a flaw as much as a symptom of genre. Nolan likes film noir. He likes crime flicks. That's what he gravitates toward. Those tend to have twists.

That being said, however, I don't recall any major twists in either of the other Batman movies. Or Inception, really. That things more of a giant puzzle, a mindfuck, more than it is a twister.

Red Brooklyn
07-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years.
Actually, yeah. It does.

Gravedigger
07-23-2012, 08:07 PM
Yeah hate to burst your bubble but you're acting like this is the worst screw job a comic has ever gotten going to the big screen. If you're a big fan you'll understand that misplacing a character is nothing compared to what Brett Ratner and writers did to X3. Trust me, Nolan could've done much worse. Honestly what films have had great comic to film adaptations anyways? Not many come to mind.

Red Brooklyn
07-23-2012, 08:24 PM
The comics themselves have been rewritten and reinvented so many times by different authors/artists. It's not like this is some kind of precious art form that Nolan, and only NOLAN, is violently debasing.

He's telling one version of a story using characters that have evolved and changed over time. Just like when a new writer/artist takes over a character.

It's just one possible adaptation. And I think it works.

Mr. Plow
07-23-2012, 08:29 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1T__uN5xmC0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JD10367
07-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Viewing #12, I think.

I'm at the football stadium part, where Ben Rapistberger and Hines "The Cryer" Ward get sucked into a giant hole.

It's my favorite part.

Sure-Oz
07-23-2012, 09:46 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1T__uN5xmC0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Son of a bitch...going to watch all 3 this week, again.

Love this series!

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 11:35 PM
God Damnit I want them to make another one. Nolan could make The Riddler into a ****in badass.

Did you know that Nolan tried to cast Dicaprio as The Riddler for this movie?

Sure-Oz
07-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Did you know that Nolan tried to cast Dicaprio as The Riddler for this movie?

Pretty sure that was just a rumor. I believe WB wanted to go with The Riddler and Nolan absolutely refused to go that route.

Glad he didn't go that way.

bowener
07-24-2012, 12:09 AM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.

This may have been mentioned before, but in my opinion JGL wouldn't be Robin.
He would be Nightwing.

And didn't Nolan say he wouldn't do another "Batman" movie? He never said he wouldn't do a "Nightwing" movie...

bowener
07-24-2012, 12:34 AM
I've read through about 150 or so posts and haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I also found it interesting that the title of the film didn't roll until (Robin) John Drake was lifted upward by the black pedestal in the bat cave.

He was literally rising.

Count Zarth
07-24-2012, 12:44 AM
JGL > Bale.

lcarus
07-24-2012, 12:47 AM
This may have been mentioned before, but in my opinion JGL wouldn't be Robin.
He would be Nightwing.

And didn't Nolan say he wouldn't do another "Batman" movie? He never said he wouldn't do a "Nightwing" movie...

Nightwing is Robin

lcarus
07-24-2012, 12:49 AM
I just saw it tonight for the first time. Good movie but I think I enjoyed TDK more.

Chiefs=Good
07-24-2012, 12:53 AM
I've read through about 150 or so posts and haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I also found it interesting that the title of the film didn't roll until (Robin) John Drake was lifted upward by the black pedestal in the bat cave.

He was literally rising.

Or when bruce got out of the prison...

Silock
07-24-2012, 02:38 AM
I've read through about 150 or so posts and haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I also found it interesting that the title of the film didn't roll until (Robin) John Drake was lifted upward by the black pedestal in the bat cave.

He was literally rising.

I think you're looking a little too literally at it.

Micjones
07-24-2012, 07:22 AM
He's only producing it. Zack Snyder is directing.

I thought Nolan was contributing to the story?

JD10367
07-24-2012, 07:30 AM
I think you're looking a little too literally at it.

No he's not. It's the last scene in the film. Of course it refers to the title, which applies in many ways to the film.

1.) Bane, Talia, and Batman all literally rise from the pit.

2.) Batman rises from near-death back into life.

3.) Batman rises from not caring about death to having a healthy fear of it again, which allows him to then rise from being only Batman to being Bruce Wayne again and re-entering the world (he rises from his despair over losing the love of his life, Odo).

4.) The Batman rises from retirement back into the public.

5.) JGL literally rises as the film ends, and rises metaphorically from being just another person to being a superhero (whether that's Batman #2, Robin, or Nightwing doesn't matter; it only matters that the superhero is there and the hope for justice continues in Gotham).

6.) My penis rises every time I see Anne Hathaway in the tight leather. (Okay, this last one Nolan didn't do just for me, but it's a bonus.)

Micjones
07-24-2012, 07:32 AM
Who voiced Bane? Was it Hardy, himself?

Micjones
07-24-2012, 07:33 AM
Anne Hathaway in the tight leather. (Okay, this last one Nolan didn't do just for me, but it's a bonus.)

I wasn't familiar with her before this film.
She's delicious.

JD10367
07-24-2012, 07:41 AM
Who voiced Bane? Was it Hardy, himself?

This is an excellent question, because after 12 viewings I'd swear that the voice is done by different people. Perhaps they overdubbed with someone else to improve the voice? In the beginning it sounds different. In certain points it sounds different (e.g. during the fight with Batman). The accent sounds different, the intonation sounds different, even the tone/pitch. Either it's multiple voices or Hardy should get an Oscar for "Best Voice Manipulation". (He does have a fascinating way of pronouncing words, like during his big speech before blowing open Blackgate Prison, or when he says, "Keep her close... he'll come for her," and accents "clo" and "her" in a rising lilt that's unusual.)

JD10367
07-24-2012, 07:43 AM
I wasn't familiar with her before this film.
She's delicious.

Her oversized features make her look unusual. One of those "not pretty but sometimes striking" women. Sort of like Julia Roberts or Uma Thurman or Cameron Diaz. Hathaway really uses her eyes and lips in this film, and combined with her athletic body and nice ass it just all works in the tight leather and the Catwoman-ish mannerisms and movements.

Micjones
07-24-2012, 07:45 AM
Her oversized features make her look unusual. One of those "not pretty but sometimes striking" women. Sort of like Julia Roberts or Uma Thurman or Cameron Diaz. Hathaway really uses her eyes and lips in this film, and combined with her athletic body and nice ass it just all works in the tight leather and the Catwoman-ish mannerisms and movements.

You hit the nail on the head. I love that exotic look.
I'm attracted to ALL of the women you named.

Her lips were enticing. I didn't notice the cakes though.
I'm gonna have to see the movie again now!

Deberg_1990
07-24-2012, 07:47 AM
I wasn't familiar with her before this film.
She's delicious.

Shes been around awhile now. Started as Disney Property like Lohan did with "The Princess Diaries"

Micjones
07-24-2012, 07:54 AM
This is an excellent question, because after 12 viewings I'd swear that the voice is done by different people. Perhaps they overdubbed with someone else to improve the voice? In the beginning it sounds different. In certain points it sounds different (e.g. during the fight with Batman). The accent sounds different, the intonation sounds different, even the tone/pitch. Either it's multiple voices or Hardy should get an Oscar for "Best Voice Manipulation". (He does have a fascinating way of pronouncing words, like during his big speech before blowing open Blackgate Prison, or when he says, "Keep her close... he'll come for her," and accents "clo" and "her" in a rising lilt that's unusual.)

You've seen the film 12 times?

After scouring the web, I guess Hardy did voice Bane.
I really like that kid. He's talented, he's working his ass off (something 6 movies in the past year) and he's putting a diverse filmography together.

JD10367
07-24-2012, 07:56 AM
You hit the nail on the head. I love that exotic look.
I'm attracted to ALL of the women you named.

Her lips were enticing. I didn't notice the cakes though.
I'm gonna have to see the movie again now!

They look nice in IMAX, especially when she's on the Batbike. If you Google Pic her (e.g. "Hathaway Catwoman pics") you'll find a nice assortment, but there's two shots in particular that I can't find. One is when Batman is showing her the bike near the end, and she walks towards it; her small waist gives her the perfect hourglass figure and accentuates the pushin' cushion. The other is when she blows a hole in the cars at the tunnel; she's sitting up, and her ass looks flat and normal, and she leans over to trigger the guns and slightly lifts her ass into the air, and it's like Christmas morning. She's in the perfect position, all I need is a pair of scissors to make some holes in the leather. :thumb:

JD10367
07-24-2012, 07:57 AM
You've seen the film 12 times?

12 down, probably around another 75-125 viewings to go. By the time the film's over I'll be able to quote every line in perfect intonation. I could "Rocky Horror" the film.

Mr. Plow
07-24-2012, 07:59 AM
Watched it again last night. No IMAX this time, just regular old screen with regular old sound system.

I thought Bane sounded more clear last night, but that could of been that I didn't have my 2 youngest boys there with me and was able to focus on it more. But, there was only like 1 phrase that I couldn't make out what he said. Not sure if it was just how loud IMAX is that distorted it a bit, or what.

Micjones
07-24-2012, 08:01 AM
They look nice in IMAX, especially when she's on the Batbike. If you Google Pic her (e.g. "Hathaway Catwoman pics") you'll find a nice assortment, but there's two shots in particular that I can't find. One is when Batman is showing her the bike near the end, and she walks towards it; her small waist gives her the perfect hourglass figure and accentuates the pushin' cushion. The other is when she blows a hole in the cars at the tunnel; she's sitting up, and her ass looks flat and normal, and she leans over to trigger the guns and slightly lifts her ass into the air, and it's like Christmas morning. She's in the perfect position, all I need is a pair of scissors to make some holes in the leather. :thumb:

I Googled those pics.
Rep.

I also Googled her height. She's only 5'8. She looks much taller.
Guess it's because she's got such long legs.

Micjones
07-24-2012, 08:01 AM
12 down, probably around another 75-125 viewings to go. By the time the film's over I'll be able to quote every line in perfect intonation. I could "Rocky Horror" the film.

Something to do with your job?

mr. tegu
07-24-2012, 08:36 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1T__uN5xmC0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I know this is early but I can't wait for the trilogy to come out on Bluray. :)

mr. tegu
07-24-2012, 08:50 AM
I know this is early but I can't wait for the trilogy to come out on Bluray. :)

Then I am going to watch them on this amazing behemoth.

http://www.tedpublications.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/sharp_80_inches_09_2011.jpg

lcarus
07-24-2012, 08:55 AM
Anyone think Batman survived by bailing on the "bat" and having the "bat submarine" waiting in the water? Lol...who knows.

scorpio
07-24-2012, 09:44 AM
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb

http://i.imgur.com/BXzxN.gif

lcarus
07-24-2012, 09:57 AM
After sleeping on it, this movie is growing on me. I absolutely LOVED TDK immediately after viewing, this movie took a bit to sink in. I really loved Bane's voice. I was totally expecting him to have the generic deep gravelly voice. Pleasantly surprised he had a jolly sounding, incredibly creepy voice. That's the voice nightmares are made of lol. They nailed it.

I also wasn't wild about the Talia twist at the end at first, because I just knew going in that there would be an al Ghul twist (I thought it would be that Ra's was somehow alive) but once they started talking about Ra's and a child, I'm too familiar with Batman lore to not have thought of Talia. I was too stupid to put 2 and 2 together and realize that Cotillard was Talia, but she looks perfect for the part in my opinion.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-24-2012, 09:59 AM
Anyone think Batman survived by bailing on the "bat" and having the "bat submarine" waiting in the water? Lol...who knows.

the most likely explanation is that he switched Bats when he flew "through" the building after lifting off with the bomb. There were at least 3 Bats, so it's not impossible a second one was waiting that he used to fly away after setting autopilot on the bomb carrier.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-24-2012, 10:00 AM
This is an excellent question, because after 12 viewings I'd swear that the voice is done by different people. Perhaps they overdubbed with someone else to improve the voice? In the beginning it sounds different. In certain points it sounds different (e.g. during the fight with Batman). The accent sounds different, the intonation sounds different, even the tone/pitch. Either it's multiple voices or Hardy should get an Oscar for "Best Voice Manipulation". (He does have a fascinating way of pronouncing words, like during his big speech before blowing open Blackgate Prison, or when he says, "Keep her close... he'll come for her," and accents "clo" and "her" in a rising lilt that's unusual.)

I thought he sounded like Liam Neeson doing a Sean Connery impression.

mr. tegu
07-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb

http://i.imgur.com/BXzxN.gif

LMAO I love the cartoon bomb and all the people just going about their business as if nothing is going on.

Lzen
07-24-2012, 10:14 AM
I am not really sure the entire experience has sunk in on me yet. I am no where near being able to rank it in the trilogy because I'm not sure I have fully grasped what I watched last night.

Just saw it last night and this describes my feelings on this film.

Reaper16
07-24-2012, 10:22 AM
I thought Nolan was contributing to the story?

He's credited for story, but my understanding is that he just worked on the initial concept with David S. Goyer, who is writing the script. Nolan probably had approval over the final script.

Who voiced Bane? Was it Hardy, himself?

Yes. All Hardy.

I think you're looking a little too literally at it.

I think you are despicable for saying something so dumb.

mdchiefsfan
07-24-2012, 11:38 AM
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb

http://i.imgur.com/BXzxN.gif

LMAO you are now the second person I have seen quote this scene.

vailpass
07-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Some of you "grown men" crack me up.

Lzen
07-24-2012, 11:57 AM
Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/why-so-serious-14.jpg

bowener
07-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Nightwing is Robin

What I meant is that they would skip over JGL being Robin and jump right into a new version of Nightwing. It just makes more sense for the universe that has already been created by Nolan.

I should note that I do not believe Nolan will ever write or possibly be attached to such a project, but I do not doubt that Warner Brothers will make such a project. After all this trilogy will ultimately make about three billion dollars or so.

Lzen
07-24-2012, 12:03 PM
People such as yourself are not Nolan's target. He wasn't after the 35-year old man still living in his parents basement surrounded by thousands upon thousands of comic books, pizza boxes, and diet coke cans. Begins and TDK should have provided enough indication for you that Nolan had no intentions of staying perfectly true to the comics.

Of the fans you reference, I'd guess that only about 5% of people who watch TDKR follow the comics and know the back story of the characters. Those 5%, of which you are included, can be disappointed and cry to each other on your comic book forum. Sure, the movie had some plot-holes, but I don't think it took away one damn thing from how good of a conclusion this was. The remaining 95% of us can enjoy that Nolan put together one hell of series, with a conclusion that I (and most everyone who saw it) found to be quite enjoyable.

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/16400000/The-Big-Bang-Theory-Sheldon-Lee-Cooper-ktgirl266-16406850-333-500.jpg

lcarus
07-24-2012, 12:18 PM
What I meant is that they would skip over JGL being Robin and jump right into a new version of Nightwing. It just makes more sense for the universe that has already been created by Nolan.

I should note that I do not believe Nolan will ever write or possibly be attached to such a project, but I do not doubt that Warner Brothers will make such a project. After all this trilogy will ultimately make about three billion dollars or so.

I took the ending to mean JGL would take over being Batman. Who knows though.

JD10367
07-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Something to do with your job?

Yes. Christopher Nolan insisted that "TDKR" be shown in IMAX in at least 100 theaters using actual 1570 film and the traditional projectors. We had to push our digitals aside and dust off the million-dollar IMAX projector. I was shocked that it worked, LOL. Honestly, though, after watching it a few times, I went across to the regular theaters and poked my head into a regular digital version of it, and it looked and sounded like absolute shit by comparison, so I guess Nolan was right to stick to his guns.

(The fourth pic here is of the screen frame with the middle speaker clusters visible. That whole frame is now covered by an approximately 60'x85' screen. "TDKR" has around an hour of footage filmed with the IMAX camera--nearly double that of "TDK"--so that footage jumps from letterbox to full-screen. I don't have the Blu-Ray of "TDK" but someone said they mixed in the IMAX footage so even the Blu-Ray gets larger during that film's half-hour of IMAX, so if he does the same thing for "TDKR" the Blu-Ray will look sweet.)

lcarus
07-24-2012, 01:22 PM
I saw it at imax and was glad i did. The last couple imax movies i saw werent impressive at all, but this was. The sound...it was almost too much haha. But i think my previous imax experiences were just the wrong movies. One of them was Kill Bill Volume 2 so...yeah. Not a good movie for a true imax experience. Cant remember what the other was.

scorpio
07-24-2012, 01:30 PM
I don't have the Blu-Ray of "TDK" but someone said they mixed in the IMAX footage so even the Blu-Ray gets larger during that film's half-hour of IMAX

This is true, it confused the shit out of me when I ripped it from the Blu-Ray to MKV.

lcarus
07-24-2012, 01:39 PM
I can't state how much I hate going to the movie theater with a packed house full of teenagers. I waited until Monday for a 10:20 showing at the IMAX to hopefully avoid a sold out crowd of stupid ass teenagers. It didn't work. One twat right next to me basically spoiled half the movie for me before it even started. I really appreciated that. Fucking asshole. Then some fat teenager showed up late, sat behind me, and immediately started kicking the shit out of the back of my seat. Why do people do that inadvertently? Do people just not respect other people that much?

Then people wouldn't shut up during the movie. Hootin and hollerin. Shut the fuck up you know? I'm tryin to watch a movie. And who goes to a movie with 9 other people? It's a movie not a god damn social gathering or a party. I almost got a rain check when I saw the caliber of people that flocked into the theater. The amount of perfume and cologne was burning my eyes and nose.

Oh well, I'm somewhat of a sociopath anyway. Pure bliss to me would be having a theater empty besides just myself. Ok maybe a few other people are ok, as long as they aren't sitting near me. It's why I almost always wait for blu-ray to watch movies. It ruins the experience of watching a movie when I'm so uncomfortable. Plus the seats are atrocious. It was hard to enjoy the last hour of the movie because my ass and lower back was in such agonizing pain. Get better seats for christs sake. I was hoping Bane would have a 3rd down with Batman on defense so everyone would stand up. But with this movie, I just couldn't wait for dvd/blu-ray

Micjones
07-24-2012, 02:15 PM
I can't state how much I hate going to the movie theater with a packed house full of teenagers. I waited until Monday for a 10:20 showing at the IMAX to hopefully avoid a sold out crowd of stupid ass teenagers. It didn't work. One twat right next to me basically spoiled half the movie for me before it even started. I really appreciated that. ****ing asshole. Then some fat teenager showed up late, sat behind me, and immediately started kicking the shit out of the back of my seat. Why do people do that inadvertently? Do people just not respect other people that much?

Then people wouldn't shut up during the movie. Hootin and hollerin. Shut the **** up you know? I'm tryin to watch a movie. And who goes to a movie with 9 other people? It's a movie not a god damn social gathering or a party. I almost got a rain check when I saw the caliber of people that flocked into the theater. The amount of perfume and cologne was burning my eyes and nose.

Oh well, I'm somewhat of a sociopath anyway. Pure bliss to me would be having a theater empty besides just myself. Ok maybe a few other people are ok, as long as they aren't sitting near me. It's why I almost always wait for blu-ray to watch movies. It ruins the experience of watching a movie when I'm so uncomfortable. Plus the seats are atrocious. It was hard to enjoy the last hour of the movie because my ass and lower back was in such agonizing pain. Get better seats for christs sake. I was hoping Bane would have a 3rd down with Batman on defense so everyone would stand up. But with this movie, I just couldn't wait for dvd/blu-ray

That's the most colossal complaint I've ever read on this forum.
Being out in public is probably not a good idea for you.

lcarus
07-24-2012, 02:47 PM
That's the most colossal complaint I've ever read on this forum.
Being out in public is probably not a good idea for you.

It's not much different than any other movie theater "rant" I suppose. It was all the worst things about going to the movies, fully realized. Loud obnoxious kids, someone kicking the back of your seat randomly, the smell of a hundred teenagers perfumes and colognes, a long movie with an uncomfortable seat. Phones ringing. Someone spoiling the movie plot twists before the movie even starts. The works. I mean, who the hell would enjoy that? I enjoy watching a movie at home soooo much more. But with Batman, I just can't wait. It was a good movie at least.

Silock
07-24-2012, 02:51 PM
I think you are despicable for saying something so dumb.

Despicable? Do you even know the meaning of that word? It sure doesn't make a whole lot of sense when used in that context. ROFL

In any case, Robin is not the Dark Knight. Sure, lots of people stepped up in the movie, and that's the whole point of Nolan's Batman, but none of them are TDK. Selina stepped up. Blake stepped up. The commissioner, police, mayor, etc. Nolan wasn't intending Blake to be considered the Dark Knight Rising. That's what I thought Bowener was getting at, and I think that's a little too literal an interpretation. If that makes me despicable, then . . . Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

There is, however, no doubt that "rising" is the theme of the film -- it just comes in many different forms.

Silock
07-24-2012, 02:54 PM
It's not much different than any other movie theater "rant" I suppose. It was all the worst things about going to the movies, fully realized. Loud obnoxious kids, someone kicking the back of your seat randomly, the smell of a hundred teenagers perfumes and colognes, a long movie with an uncomfortable seat. Phones ringing. Someone spoiling the movie plot twists before the movie even starts. The works. I mean, who the hell would enjoy that? I enjoy watching a movie at home soooo much more. But with Batman, I just can't wait. It was a good movie at least.

Sounds like you need to go to the 21 and up theater, which is Cinemasuites.

Guru
07-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Did not care for allowing Batman to survive at the end. I liked the idea of his death. Seeing him alive and understanding how he survived kind of disappointed me.

lcarus
07-24-2012, 02:59 PM
Sounds like you need to go to the 21 and up theater, which is Cinemasuites.

I'm totally ok with just waiting for movies to come out on video, minus a few here and there, such as this one. I seem to have bad movie theater experiences.

vailpass
07-24-2012, 02:59 PM
Despicable? Do you even know the meaning of that word? It sure doesn't make a whole lot of sense when used in that context. ROFL

In any case, Robin is not the Dark Knight. Sure, lots of people stepped up in the movie, and that's the whole point of Nolan's Batman, but none of them are TDK. Selina stepped up. Blake stepped up. The commissioner, police, mayor, etc. Nolan wasn't intending Blake to be considered the Dark Knight Rising. That's what I thought Bowener was getting at, and I think that's a little too literal an interpretation. If that makes me despicable, then . . . Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

There is, however, no doubt that "rising" is the theme of the film -- it just comes in many different forms.

Sheldon? Or Leonard?

CoMoChief
07-24-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm seeing this tomorrow. again

Count Zarth
07-24-2012, 03:27 PM
Did not care for allowing Batman to survive at the end. I liked the idea of his death. Seeing him alive and understanding how he survived kind of disappointed me.


It was actually kind of genius the way they did it.

They got the emotional impact of him dying, and most people bought it I think. Especially with the statue and Alfred at the grave.

Then they have the twist at the end and you get the joy of realizing he's alive.

That was my reaction anyway. Nolan gave me multiple orgasms and it was good.

JD10367
07-24-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm totally ok with just waiting for movies to come out on video, minus a few here and there, such as this one. I seem to have bad movie theater experiences.

That's one thing I like about working in a theater. I can come in early or stay late and run a film for myself. Especially now that it's all digital. Nothing to break. Press "Play" and go watch.

KcMizzou
07-24-2012, 06:48 PM
That's one thing I like about working in a theater. I can come in early or stay late and run a film for myself. Especially now that it's all digital. Nothing to break. Press "Play" and go watch.That's a pretty sweet perk.

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I liked how the movie ended, i think the only thing that would be like OH SHIT would be if they never showed bruce at the end and jut alfred looking up with a smile and cutting. LOVED this movie, all time favorite trilogy

L.A. Chieffan
07-24-2012, 09:10 PM
The biggest movie "roar" I've ever heard was the night South Park the movie came out. When the boys go to see the Terrance and Philip movie for the first time.... I've never heard so many people laughing their asses off at the same time

Reaper16
07-24-2012, 09:20 PM
Despicable? Do you even know the meaning of that word? It sure doesn't make a whole lot of sense when used in that context. ROFL

In any case, Robin is not the Dark Knight. Sure, lots of people stepped up in the movie, and that's the whole point of Nolan's Batman, but none of them are TDK. Selina stepped up. Blake stepped up. The commissioner, police, mayor, etc. Nolan wasn't intending Blake to be considered the Dark Knight Rising. That's what I thought Bowener was getting at, and I think that's a little too literal an interpretation. If that makes me despicable, then . . . Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

There is, however, no doubt that "rising" is the theme of the film -- it just comes in many different forms.

I was being hyperbolic. I do that a lot.

The theme of the film is "rising." It manifests itself in a lot of different ways, including Robin John Blake assuming the mantle of Batman. The last shot was representative of the theme, it wasn't THE interpretation of the film's title.

BTW -- why are y'all talking about Robin John Blake's masked crimefighter identity being Robin or Nightwing. Did you watch the same movie I did? He's going to be Batman. Not anyone else. Batman.

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 09:22 PM
I was being hyperbolic. I do that a lot.

The theme of the film is "rising." It manifests itself in a lot of different ways, including Robin John Blake assuming the mantle of Batman. The last shot was representative of the theme, it wasn't THE interpretation of the film's title.

BTW -- why are y'all talking about Robin John Blake's masked crimefighter identity being Robin or Nightwing. Did you watch the same movie I did? He's going to be Batman. Not anyone else. Batman.

I saw it as him taking over as Batman as well.

tk13
07-24-2012, 09:22 PM
I initially interpreted it as him becoming Batman as well... but I'm open to other arguments.

Guru
07-24-2012, 09:38 PM
I liked how the movie ended, i think the only thing that would be like OH SHIT would be if they never showed bruce at the end and jut alfred looking up with a smile and cutting. LOVED this movie, all time favorite trilogy

I think I would have liked that a lot better.

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 09:41 PM
I think I would have liked that a lot better.

Agreed...was kinda surprised that they showed him. Everyone thinks he's dead. I've had people say they prefer Bruce died, but i just didn't want that to be the case but rather have hope he survived.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-24-2012, 09:49 PM
This trilogy is the best I've seen in a long time. I can't think of a better trilogy.

Guru
07-24-2012, 09:50 PM
Agreed...was kinda surprised that they showed him. Everyone thinks he's dead. I've had people say they prefer Bruce died, but i just didn't want that to be the case but rather have hope he survived.

Evidently, Nolan was afraid fans would lynch him if he pulled another Inception ending. LMAO

mr. tegu
07-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Evidently, Nolan was afraid fans would lynch him if he pulled another Inception ending. LMAO

That ending still makes me mad.

tk13
07-24-2012, 10:36 PM
The Inception ending might be my favorite experience ever in a movie theater. You could feel the air getting sucked out of the room while the top was spinning, and an entire theater groaned as it cut to black. This movie though, I'm glad he resolved things. This was a three movie arc, and it brought closure to it. It was just a different type of story. The Sopranos thing worked because they were always having to look over their shoulder.

Silock
07-24-2012, 10:42 PM
BTW -- why are y'all talking about Robin John Blake's masked crimefighter identity being Robin or Nightwing. Did you watch the same movie I did? He's going to be Batman. Not anyone else. Batman.

Then why even bring up the name "Robin?" As much as Nolan likes to play with lore, I just don't see him bringing up some guy who is named Robin, but is actually going to be Batman.

There's only one Batman. Bruce Wayne. Why? It's like he says in Batman Begins.

Alfred: Why bats, sir?

BW: Bats frighten me. It's time my enemies share my dread.

I totally buy that Blake was going to be a crimefighter, Batman I just don't see. He's going to pick his own name and theme. He's too independent a character not to.

Guru
07-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Then why even bring up the name "Robin?" As much as Nolan likes to play with lore, I just don't see him bringing up some guy who is named Robin, but is actually going to be Batman.

There's only one Batman. Bruce Wayne. Why? It's like he says in Batman Begins.

Alfred: Why bats, sir?

BW: Bats frighten me. It's time my enemies share my dread.

I totally buy that Blake was going to be a crimefighter, Batman I just don't see. He's going to pick his own name and theme. He's too independent a character not to.

So where does he get his Robin suit from then? With what money? The only thing available to him is a Batman suit and whatever else is in that cave. I guess if he really wants to stand behind his "no mask" stand even after Batman explained the purpose of the mask he could go without it but I don't see that.

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Evidently, Nolan was afraid fans would lynch him if he pulled another Inception ending. LMAO

LMAO good point

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 10:57 PM
So where does he get his Robin suit from then? With what money? The only thing available to him is a Batman suit and whatever else is in that cave. I guess if he really wants to stand behind his "no mask" stand even after Batman explained the purpose of the mask he could go without it but I don't see that.

Exactly...

Everything 'BAT' wise is available to him...this is Nolans batman, not the comics.

Either way cool.

Tribal Warfare
07-24-2012, 11:11 PM
Exactly...

Everything 'BAT' wise is available to him...this is Nolans batman, not the comics.

Either way cool.

the thing that bugged me about that is where the fuck will he get training equal to Bruce had with The League of Shadows. The Gotham YMCA doesn't teach Ninja skills.

Sure-Oz
07-24-2012, 11:13 PM
the thing that bugged me about that is where the **** will he get training equal to Bruce had with The League of Shadows. The Gotham YMCA doesn't teach Ninja skills.

Bruce likely left a 'Tom Emanski' type video for him to teach him the skills. Obviously.

That said, still a cool ending, I assume this won't continue. I always wondered what JGL role would be in the end.

Silock
07-24-2012, 11:54 PM
So where does he get his Robin suit from then? With what money? The only thing available to him is a Batman suit and whatever else is in that cave. I guess if he really wants to stand behind his "no mask" stand even after Batman explained the purpose of the mask he could go without it but I don't see that.

Well, he wouldn't really need much to modify the Bat suit to be a Robin suit, would he? Paint it a different color and don't wear the helmet. Done.

Also, we don't know that John Blake is poor, nor do we know that there wasn't contingency money left by Wayne for Blake in the Batcave or via some other means, like Alfred or Fox.

I mean, all of this is totally out of the scope of the movie, but it doesn't take huge leaps of logic to see why he wouldn't be Batman.

Silock
07-24-2012, 11:55 PM
Exactly...

Everything 'BAT' wise is available to him...this is Nolans batman, not the comics.

Either way cool.

Yes, it's Nolan's Batman. Where the guy, who isn't Batman, but is named Robin, is going to be Batman . . . because Bruce Wayne left him some toys? I don't think so.

Guru
07-25-2012, 12:07 AM
Well, he wouldn't really need much to modify the Bat suit to be a Robin suit, would he? Paint it a different color and don't wear the helmet. Done.

Also, we don't know that John Blake is poor, nor do we know that there wasn't contingency money left by Wayne for Blake in the Batcave or via some other means, like Alfred or Fox.

I mean, all of this is totally out of the scope of the movie, but it doesn't take huge leaps of logic to see why he wouldn't be Batman.

That is more or less what I said.

Look, I am not saying he isn't going to be Robin. Just that the movie leaves us with him being completely on his own with only what is available in the cave.

None of it really matters though. Nolan is done with the franchise.

Anyong Bluth
07-25-2012, 12:48 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what real scenes does Alfred share with Selina & Bruce? Maybe I'm blanking on an obvious but I don't recall him seeing the two together to pick up on the attraction vibe except they discuss her a bit after she boosted the pearls?


Makes me believe he's actually alive when coupled with Fox finding out autopilot was fixed - even though he's in the plane right as it explodes. Are we to assume that he released the bomb & then flew far enough to get out of the blast radius that should gave been fairly large.

I think I prefer if it was just Alfred's imagination, but unlikely. Ya, there are plenty of weak plot points, The one that I literally blurted out bullshit was after the truck drops to the sublevel / lower street and Gordon just pops out totally fine like a human wouldn't get seriously injured free falling in a giant metal box with other giant metal objects rattling around.

I can live with it and enjoyed it still. AH did an amazing job in her role, I was pleasantly surprised with JGL performance - I think he's a great actor but didn't know if his acting chops could play it the way he did & it actually come off as believable as opposed to simply getting the role by de facto as 1 of Nolan's anointed group of preferred actors.







This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

JD10367
07-25-2012, 08:15 AM
Makes me believe he's actually alive when coupled with Fox finding out autopilot was fixed - even though he's in the plane right as it explodes. Are we to assume that he released the bomb & then flew far enough to get out of the blast radius that should gave been fairly large.

I think I prefer if it was just Alfred's imagination, but unlikely. Ya, there are plenty of weak plot points, The one that I literally blurted out bullshit was after the truck drops to the sublevel / lower street and Gordon just pops out totally fine like a human wouldn't get seriously injured free falling in a giant metal box with other giant metal objects rattling around.

Guys. Batman lived. It's not an ambiguous ending. Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot six weeks ago. Someone has the missing pearls. Someone fixed the Batsignal. He's alive. How in the hell did he escape a nuclear blast while flying at 100+MPH and dragging a bomb over the ocean? Who the fuck knows. He's Batman, that's how. He has cool planes and bikes and cars and computers and little keyfobs that can deactivate paparazzi cameras and whatnot. He's escaped from a myriad of situations throughout his comic and movie career (not the least of which was, in this film, recovering from a nearly broken back). Do we really need a concrete reasonable explanation as to how he did it?

As for the Gordon/truck thing, I guess the rationale there is that the bomb was pretty heavy and probably didn't move around much (although I'd have to go back and re-examine the other film footage, as the bomb didn't seem that heavy earlier). And they do "wound" Gordon by showing him grabbing his arm as he asks Catwoman to help him get the bomb out of the truck (I assume their attempts to deflect the valid "how could he be fine?!?" complaint). And, when you think about the physics, the cab of the truck is what smashed into the pavement and absorbed the shock of the fall; the back end just sort of tilts and then falls straight down using only the kinetic force of gravity (whereas the cab smashed with the kinetic force of the speeding truck).

Micjones
07-25-2012, 08:53 AM
Guys. Batman lived. It's not an ambiguous ending. Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot six weeks ago. Someone has the missing pearls. Someone fixed the Batsignal. He's alive. How in the hell did he escape a nuclear blast while flying at 100+MPH and dragging a bomb over the ocean? Who the **** knows. He's Batman, that's how. He has cool planes and bikes and cars and computers and little keyfobs that can deactivate paparazzi cameras and whatnot. He's escaped from a myriad of situations throughout his comic and movie career (not the least of which was, in this film, recovering from a nearly broken back). Do we really need a concrete reasonable explanation as to how he did it?

Not having a reasonable explanation for something that happened in a film is like having a tag sticking up in a t-shirt. It's irritating. I'm analytical so it's probably gonna bug the shit out of me until I get it figured out. "He escaped cause he's Batman" isn't satisfying to me. I haven't thought much about it since seeing TDKR though. I'm just speaking in general terms.

Mr. Plow
07-25-2012, 09:03 AM
Not having a reasonable explanation for something that happened in a film is like having a tag sticking up in a t-shirt. It's irritating. I'm analytical so it's probably gonna bug the shit out of me until I get it figured out. "He escaped cause he's Batman" isn't satisfying to me. I haven't thought much about it since seeing TDKR though. I'm just speaking in general terms.

The Soprano's ending must still bug the shit out of you. :)

Red Brooklyn
07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Yes, it's Nolan's Batman. Where the guy, who isn't Batman, but is named Robin, is going to be Batman . . . because Bruce Wayne left him some toys? I don't think so.
I imagine he'll be taking over Batman as well. It's possible he'll be a different hero. But I don't imagine it'll be Robin.

Mainly because... you know... his name is Robin. Pretty stupid superhero to name his superhero identity after his super top secret identity.

Micjones
07-25-2012, 09:44 AM
The Soprano's ending must still bug the shit out of you. :)

I never watched that show.

Mr. Plow
07-25-2012, 09:51 AM
I never watched that show.


Ahhhh, gotcha. I wouldn't suggest it then.

lcarus
07-25-2012, 10:20 AM
Not having a reasonable explanation for something that happened in a film is like having a tag sticking up in a t-shirt. It's irritating. I'm analytical so it's probably gonna bug the shit out of me until I get it figured out. "He escaped cause he's Batman" isn't satisfying to me. I haven't thought much about it since seeing TDKR though. I'm just speaking in general terms.

The ending to this movie is nothing new to me, since I recently watched the House series finale and the Sherlock season 2 finale. The last episode of Sherlock still bugs me but at least that will likely get resolved in the next season. Which won't air for a long time yet.

mr. tegu
07-25-2012, 10:27 AM
I imagine he'll be taking over Batman as well. It's possible he'll be a different hero. But I don't imagine it'll be Robin.

Mainly because... you know... his name is Robin. Pretty stupid superhero to name his superhero identity after his super top secret identity.

What's wrong with that for a secret identity? /Clark Kent

DMAC
07-25-2012, 10:45 AM
the thing that bugged me about that is where the fuck will he get training equal to Bruce had with The League of Shadows. The Gotham YMCA doesn't teach Ninja skills.

He won't. He's a fuckin sidekick.

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 10:45 AM
The ending to this movie is nothing new to me, since I recently watched the House series finale and the Sherlock season 2 finale. The last episode of Sherlock still bugs me but at least that will likely get resolved in the next season. Which won't air for a long time yet.

At least Sherlock gave us A TON of on-screen clues as to how he pulled it off.

lcarus
07-25-2012, 10:49 AM
At least Sherlock gave us A TON of on-screen clues as to how he pulled it off.

I've read a lot of theories and stuff online, but it's still pretty perplexing. To me anyways. I'm looking forward to the next season.

Micjones
07-25-2012, 11:22 AM
The ending to this movie is nothing new to me, since I recently watched the House series finale and the Sherlock season 2 finale. The last episode of Sherlock still bugs me but at least that will likely get resolved in the next season. Which won't air for a long time yet.

The House series finale didn't bug me as much.
We saw the roof collapse, but it could easily have just been a section of the roof collapsing in front of House. That's a lot less gray.

lcarus
07-25-2012, 12:02 PM
The House series finale didn't bug me as much.
We saw the roof collapse, but it could easily have just been a section of the roof collapsing in front of House. That's a lot less gray.

I wasn't really talking about the mystery so much as I am them just being the same ending. "Dying", graveyard scene, loved ones mourning, but then of course they're alive.

Buehler445
07-25-2012, 12:22 PM
Man, you guys are way more nitpicky than I am. I went to the movie in order to be entertained. It was very much that. VERY much that. It got your mind and emotions working and topped it off with tremendous action.

That movie was EPIC. Are there things that aren't possible? Absolutely. That's why it is fucking fiction. If it were all absolutely real, it would be absolutely boring. Or Nolan would be able to find a Wayne Enterprises, Fox, Catwoman, Alfred, and FUCKING BATMAN to base them on reality.

Look, you guys are absolutely tearing this apart based on what you guys know. But you have to let it go. I can do that too, Fox kept talking about all the R&D shit being off the books, and the fact of the matter is that a publicly traded company CANNOT keep anything off the books. No matter what, no matter the materiality. They have to file all that with the 10Q and Annual report.

But I can let all that go. Just like you guys need to let the little details go and enjoy the movie. We could rip any movie, TV show, or any work of fiction ever.

lcarus
07-25-2012, 12:41 PM
Man, you guys are way more nitpicky than I am. I went to the movie in order to be entertained. It was very much that. VERY much that. It got your mind and emotions working and topped it off with tremendous action.

That movie was EPIC. Are there things that aren't possible? Absolutely. That's why it is fucking fiction. If it were all absolutely real, it would be absolutely boring. Or Nolan would be able to find a Wayne Enterprises, Fox, Catwoman, Alfred, and FUCKING BATMAN to base them on reality.

Look, you guys are absolutely tearing this apart based on what you guys know. But you have to let it go. I can do that too, Fox kept talking about all the R&D shit being off the books, and the fact of the matter is that a publicly traded company CANNOT keep anything off the books. No matter what, no matter the materiality. They have to file all that with the 10Q and Annual report.

But I can let all that go. Just like you guys need to let the little details go and enjoy the movie. We could rip any movie, TV show, or any work of fiction ever.

Yep. It was a great movie. It's a movie about a man that dresses up as a bat and fights crime. I'm already suspending my disbelief, so what's the difference.

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 01:03 PM
We could rip any movie, TV show, or any work of fiction ever.

We can, yes. And we should.

listopencil
07-25-2012, 02:12 PM
Fox kept talking about all the R&D shit being off the books, and the fact of the matter is that a publicly traded company CANNOT keep anything off the books. No matter what, no matter the materiality. They have to file all that with the 10Q and Annual report.



It was secret government work for the Department of Defense. They were paid from a black ops fund, and R&D isn't expected to make money unless it pays off with a contract. If anything the federal money helped to offset the losses and might have been toyed with to create a net loss for the department just to make it look better.

Buehler445
07-25-2012, 02:13 PM
We can, yes. And we should.

You should, maybe. Not me. It would kill every single bit of joy I ever got out of any movie if I spent the whole time finding holes in the plot.

But, to aid your case, here are some more inaccuracies that you could cite in your attack of the movie.


The blatant SEC reporting violations that I mentioned above.
6 mile blast radius for a neutron bomb? LOL
Detonating the bomb above the water would leave huge radiation problems for the city.
No EPA oversight of tunnel building? LOL They want to control water in road ditches. They'd be all over a tunnel project.


Either way, none of that is so egregious that I can't get over it and love the fuck out of the movie.

Guru
07-25-2012, 02:20 PM
He won't. He's a ****in sidekick.

http://images.wikia.com/disney/images/6/6c/Coach_Boomer_Close_Up.jpg

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 02:23 PM
You should, maybe. Not me. It would kill every single bit of joy I ever got out of any movie if I spent the whole time finding holes in the plot.

But, to aid your case, here are some more inaccuracies that you could cite in your attack of the movie.


The blatant SEC reporting violations that I mentioned above.
6 mile blast radius for a neutron bomb? LOL
Detonating the bomb above the water would leave huge radiation problems for the city.
No EPA oversight of tunnel building? LOL They want to control water in road ditches. They'd be all over a tunnel project.


Either way, none of that is so egregious that I can't get over it and love the fuck out of the movie.

Well, you could watch movies that, you know, don't have a screenplay that looks like swiss cheese. The world of cinema is more than just big-hype Hollywood releases.

I feel like people are rewarding Nolan for a.) creating a dark, gritty, realistic atmosphere in this trilogy, and b.) casting his films well. The last two films in the trilogy, especially TDKR, fail to give audiences a story that they deserve. Nolan instead banks (correctly, given the film's reception and audience opinions like yours) on his atmosphere and themes being strong enough that people won't care if the film doesn't make sense.

Buehler445
07-25-2012, 03:47 PM
Well, you could watch movies that, you know, don't have a screenplay that looks like swiss cheese. The world of cinema is more than just big-hype Hollywood releases.

I feel like people are rewarding Nolan for a.) creating a dark, gritty, realistic atmosphere in this trilogy, and b.) casting his films well. The last two films in the trilogy, especially TDKR, fail to give audiences a story that they deserve. Nolan instead banks (correctly, given the film's reception and audience opinions like yours) on his atmosphere and themes being strong enough that people won't care if the film doesn't make sense.

Perhaps. Maybe I'm a worthless know-nothing mouth breathing degenerate movie goer that is all that is wrong with modern cinema.

But, I hardly think this film doesn't make sense. I had no problem making sense of the plot. I also think that I could tear holes in virtually any film. Pure character studies would be tough, but anything relying on an exterior plot opens itself up to be holes.

patteeu
07-25-2012, 03:57 PM
I was being hyperbolic. I do that a lot.

The theme of the film is "rising." It manifests itself in a lot of different ways, including Robin John Blake assuming the mantle of Batman. The last shot was representative of the theme, it wasn't THE interpretation of the film's title.

BTW -- why are y'all talking about Robin John Blake's masked crimefighter identity being Robin or Nightwing. Did you watch the same movie I did? He's going to be Batman. Not anyone else. Batman.

Which movie are you talking about? The one where he removed the rope because he had overcome his fear of death or the one where it meant he'd regained it? :Poke:

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 04:23 PM
Which movie are you talking about? The one where he removed the rope because he had overcome his fear of death or the one where it meant he'd regained it? :Poke:

I still contend that, absent of Nolan's lazy parallels to Batman Begins that were the cause of the whole "regain a fear of death" thing that doesn't end up figuring into the film's climax at all like not even one bit, someone choosing to forgo the rope when attempting that climb can be read as an act of fearlessness.

mr. tegu
07-25-2012, 04:33 PM
Man, you guys are way more nitpicky than I am. I went to the movie in order to be entertained. It was very much that. VERY much that. It got your mind and emotions working and topped it off with tremendous action.

That movie was EPIC. Are there things that aren't possible? Absolutely. That's why it is ****ing fiction. If it were all absolutely real, it would be absolutely boring. Or Nolan would be able to find a Wayne Enterprises, Fox, Catwoman, Alfred, and ****ING BATMAN to base them on reality.

Look, you guys are absolutely tearing this apart based on what you guys know. But you have to let it go. I can do that too, Fox kept talking about all the R&D shit being off the books, and the fact of the matter is that a publicly traded company CANNOT keep anything off the books. No matter what, no matter the materiality. They have to file all that with the 10Q and Annual report.

But I can let all that go. Just like you guys need to let the little details go and enjoy the movie. We could rip any movie, TV show, or any work of fiction ever.

Those projects were all off the books before the company went public IIRC. So they never existed is how I would see it.

Mr. Plow
07-25-2012, 04:34 PM
I still contend that, absent of Nolan's lazy parallels to Batman Begins that were the cause of the whole "regain a fear of death" thing that doesn't end up figuring into the film's climax at all like not even one bit, someone choosing to forgo the rope when attempting that climb can be read as an act of fearlessness.

One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

mr. tegu
07-25-2012, 04:34 PM
Has anyone else had a dream yet that they were Batman? I have and it was pretty sweet.

mr. tegu
07-25-2012, 04:35 PM
One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

Bane told him the same thing when they were fighting. Batman didn't fear death so he fought Bane with a carelessness that got himself beat to a pulp.

Mr. Plow
07-25-2012, 04:37 PM
Bane told him the same thing when they were fighting. Batman didn't fear death so he fought Bane with a carelessness that got himself beat to a pulp.

Yeah, I remember Bane said something about Batman fighting like a young man or something to that affect.

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 04:39 PM
One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

And Bruce's martial arts training in Begins taught him to not fear death, because if you don't care if you die then you are free to, well, work harder, jump farther, fight longer, and use all your strength and energy because negative consequences aren't something to be afraid of.

Bruce clearly had to get his groove back, yes, but terming that re-energization as "regaining a fear of death" felt to me like an amateur screenwriting move from someone who was told that parallels are often marks of a good script but lacks the knowledge of why or how to pull them off.

Buehler445
07-25-2012, 04:41 PM
Those projects were all off the books before the company went public IIRC. So they never existed is how I would see it.

Doesn't work that way.

Reaper16
07-25-2012, 04:45 PM
I mean, really, Bruce didn't get destroyed by Bane because he didn't fear death. He got destroyed by Bane out of hubris. Bruce thought he could just get back in the game after 8 years and health issues and he had no idea what he was getting himself into. Yeah, it's carelessness. But it isn't the logical result of his Keysi training or anything.

patteeu
07-25-2012, 05:03 PM
Doesn't work that way.

No one is suggesting that "off the books" is legal. I think you're hung up on what's allowable by law instead of what's possible.

Silock
07-25-2012, 05:11 PM
You should, maybe. Not me. It would kill every single bit of joy I ever got out of any movie if I spent the whole time finding holes in the plot.

But, to aid your case, here are some more inaccuracies that you could cite in your attack of the movie.


The blatant SEC reporting violations that I mentioned above.
6 mile blast radius for a neutron bomb? LOL
Detonating the bomb above the water would leave huge radiation problems for the city.
No EPA oversight of tunnel building? LOL They want to control water in road ditches. They'd be all over a tunnel project.


Either way, none of that is so egregious that I can't get over it and love the fuck out of the movie.

Small fusion bombs aren't dirty, FWIW.

mr. tegu
07-25-2012, 05:16 PM
In completely unrelated news, this movie was AWESOME! :) many people were worried if it would live up to the hype or if it would be as good as the first two. IMO it lived up to the hype and arguments could be made for any of the three movies being the best of the bunch.

kaplin42
07-25-2012, 11:01 PM
I think one big thing to consider here is that Bruce wasn't learning how to conquer his fear of death. He'd already done that.

He was learning how important fear is. The issue is he needed the fear back. I think that plays pretty heavily into his escape. Perhaps not so heavily into defeating Bane, I'll grant you. But I don't think it was entirely pointless or inconsequential.

The movie, to me, seemed to be like Batman Begins in reverse. The whole second half was more about Bruce vs himself than Batman vs Bane. Not arguing that as a strength or a weakness, just making an observation.

I'm fine with Bane being muscle and less brains. And in the end Batman still wasn't going to be able to defeat Bane on his own. But, again, I'm not sure that's what it was about.

And the Breaking Bad crack was just that. It was a crack. Me making fun of myself more than anything. Your comment sounded similar to some of mine re: that show. And I don't think it's worlds apart, frankly. We've seen characters on BB acting completely out of character for the sake of plot, and sometimes, even plot "twists."

Before I read more of this thread, I have to clarify this whole thing.

In the prison, the old guy says that you have to have a fear of death, or you have nothing help you beyond the point of reason. to paraphrase, "how can you fight beyond what you can, how can persevere beyond what is possible without a fear of death, because without the fear of death, you have nothing to fight for"

The rope is nothing more than a safety net, no one ever makes the jump because if they don't make it they know they will still live. Take the rope away, and if you miss the jump, you die.

Batman lost to Bane in the first fight cause he didn't care if he won or lost, if he died it was no big deal to him. He won the fight the second time because he had something to fight for.

Also, it was mentioned in the prison that Bane's mask alleviates the pain of the injuries from when Bane got the shit kicked out of him helping Talia escape. If you watch the second fight between Batman and Bane, you will notice Batman going for the mask.

If this was made clear in the remainder of the thread, sorry, but I was reading this and wanted to help clarify it.

Mr. Plow
07-26-2012, 06:53 AM
In the prison, the old guy says that you have to have a fear of death, or you have nothing help you beyond the point of reason. to paraphrase, "how can you fight beyond what you can, how can persevere beyond what is possible without a fear of death, because without the fear of death, you have nothing to fight for"


Thank you. You said it in the way I was trying to say it but failed miserably.

Mr. Plow
07-26-2012, 07:21 AM
lol. You think your tan line is bad.....



http://chzfailnation.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/epic-fail-banes-tan-lines-fail.png

JD10367
07-26-2012, 07:28 AM
The thing that I find the hardest to fathom isn't necessarily just the "escape" portion, but the whole bomb idea. It has a six-mile radius (which they state clearly). Judging from the camera long-shots, the Batplane is around five miles off shore at the least, given the distance off shore that we see the final explosion. Since the edge of the explosion is nowhere near Gotham, extrapolate at least another three miles (to the center of the blast). So he had to fly at least 8 miles off shore. IIRC he takes the bomb with about 2:00 to go on the clock. (That's a rough guess. Even though I've seen it 13 times I've had two days off so I'll have to refresh my memory on it.) He spends some time getting it out of the tunnel, blowing up the building, and flying over JGL's head. That probably takes another 30 seconds, but for the sake of leniency let's say it doesn't, and give him the full 2 minutes. To go 2 minutes in 8 miles means you have to be going 240 miles an hour. Under no circumstances in the film--including the speed at which he started leaving Gotham--does that Batplane look like it goes 240 miles an hour. Never mind how Bruce Wayne lived, how did Gotham?

Micjones
07-26-2012, 07:42 AM
The thing that I find the hardest to fathom isn't necessarily just the "escape" portion, but the whole bomb idea. It has a six-mile radius (which they state clearly). Judging from the camera long-shots, the Batplane is around five miles off shore at the least, given the distance off shore that we see the final explosion. Since the edge of the explosion is nowhere near Gotham, extrapolate at least another three miles (to the center of the blast). So he had to fly at least 8 miles off shore. IIRC he takes the bomb with about 2:00 to go on the clock. (That's a rough guess. Even though I've seen it 13 times I've had two days off so I'll have to refresh my memory on it.) He spends some time getting it out of the tunnel, blowing up the building, and flying over JGL's head. That probably takes another 30 seconds, but for the sake of leniency let's say it doesn't, and give him the full 2 minutes. To go 2 minutes in 8 miles means you have to be going 240 miles an hour. Under no circumstances in the film--including the speed at which he started leaving Gotham--does that Batplane look like it goes 240 miles an hour. Never mind how Bruce Wayne lived, how did Gotham?

Getting it out to the bay seems much more reasonable than Batman escaping the blast radius OUTSIDE of the Batwing.

kaplin42
07-26-2012, 10:54 AM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

While you're entitled to your opinion, it's absolutely amazing how one can watch a movie and still not see it.

lcarus
07-26-2012, 11:21 AM
TDK>Rises>Begins. But I love Begins.

Fish
07-26-2012, 11:23 AM
Another minor thing that bugged me was the magic knee brace thing...

Bruce was hobbling with a cane, and the Doc told him his body was beat up with all kinds of ailments like ligament damage, brain bruising, etc. But Bruce straps on simple knee brace with shining lights, and we never hear or notice anything health related about him at all. And Bane captures him and throws him in prison with the magic knee brace still on? Why? The entire point was to put him in the prison that's a huge deep hole that he couldn't get out of, in order to further break his spirit. But yet you don't bother with the glowing device on his leg?

I like the idea of Batman getting old and his body breaking down, and how that plays into the story. But I felt like they just kinda cut corners on that aspect and expected people to forget about it.

kaplin42
07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
I like the idea of Batman getting old and his body breaking down, and how that plays into the story. But I felt like they just kinda cut corners on that aspect and expected people to forget about it.

This feeds into something I was thinking goes with the JGL at the end. I didn't see it brought up in the thread at all, but what if, and a big what if, JGL is Batman Beyond.

It's obvious Bruce is busted up, and can't really continue on, and JGL is right there, I think the plot could work. Bruce could be the mentor while JGL takes to the streets as the next Batman.

I could be, and more than likely am very wrong on this, but I just thought it was as good a guess as any of the others.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-26-2012, 11:39 AM
This feeds into something I was thinking goes with the JGL at the end. I didn't see it brought up in the thread at all, but what if, and a big what if, JGL is Batman Beyond.

It's obvious Bruce is busted up, and can't really continue on, and JGL is right there, I think the plot could work. Bruce could be the mentor while JGL takes to the streets as the next Batman.

I could be, and more than likely am very wrong on this, but I just thought it was as good a guess as any of the others.

I have zero knowledge of the comics, but my take was that JGL was going to be Batman.

Numerous reasons:

1. yes, his name was Robin, but that's a terrible way to disguise yourself if you're going to be Robin
2. Bruce fixed up the bat signal - maybe I'm wrong, but not likely Robin responds to the Bat signal.
3. The repeated discussion of Batman being anonymous and masked. Anyone can be Batman.
4. Had Bruce wanted anything else, he'd have had a suit made or left instruction.

kaplin42
07-26-2012, 11:48 AM
I have zero knowledge of the comics, but my take was that JGL was going to be Batman.

Numerous reasons:

1. yes, his name was Robin, but that's a terrible way to disguise yourself if you're going to be Robin
2. Bruce fixed up the bat signal - maybe I'm wrong, but not likely Robin responds to the Bat signal.
3. The repeated discussion of Batman being anonymous and masked. Anyone can be Batman.
4. Had Bruce wanted anything else, he'd have had a suit made or left instruction.

Technically Batman Beyond is still Batman. I will admit I don't know the comic story very well, but from what I understand:

-- Bruce is too old/broken to actually suit up and kick ass, so he "recruits" a young kid to actually do that.

-- Young kid takes up the mantle of the Batman, wearing the outfit and getting his hands dirty in the streets. Still Batman, not Robin or Nightwing.

-- Bruce stays involved by being intel back at the Batcave. Remember, half the reason Batman is so badass is because he is very intelligent. Having his brains on the back side figuring out the mysteries while the "new" Batman actually does the leg work

Deberg_1990
07-26-2012, 11:55 AM
Im not convinced that the JGL version of Robin or Batman will ever come to frutition.

I loved the end, but i think it was mostly Nolan just throwing a big bone to the fans.

My short term guess is that Nolan moves on, and WB reboots Batman once again in 4 to 5 years.

lcarus
07-26-2012, 12:19 PM
Im not convinced that the JGL version of Robin or Batman will ever come to frutition.

I loved the end, but i think it was mostly Nolan just throwing a big bone to the fans.

My short term guess is that Nolan moves on, and WB reboots Batman once again in 4 to 5 years.

Looking forward to the reboot. Loved the Nolan trilogy, but I'm ready for a Batman series that can be unrealistic in a comic book sort of way that will allow for villains like Clayface, Mr Freeze, etc.

Deberg_1990
07-26-2012, 12:21 PM
Looking forward to the reboot. Loved the Nolan trilogy, but I'm ready for a Batman series that can be unrealistic in a comic book sort of way that will allow for villains like Clayface, Mr Freeze, etc.

So you want the Burton/Schumacher Batman again?

unothadeal
07-26-2012, 12:25 PM
My short term guess is that Nolan moves on, and WB reboots Batman once again in 4 to 5 years.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1877830/

lcarus
07-26-2012, 12:53 PM
So you want the Burton/Schumacher Batman again?

Lol, no. Some of the elements of some of those movies were ok. The Burton movies were not bad movies. Maybe like a mixture of the Burton and Nolan Batman universes? They can make a fantasy comic book movie and not make it silly or ridiculous like Schumacher. Even with the shitty Schumacher movies, some of the atmosphere in that portrayal of Gotham was kinda cool. The issue was just silly, stupid characters with shitty dialogue and plot. Either way, I'm interested to see where they go from here.

Red Brooklyn
07-26-2012, 02:36 PM
What's wrong with that for a secret identity? /Clark Kent

LMAO

CoMoChief
07-26-2012, 03:10 PM
I dont know if I can rate these movies in order of my preference. They all kick some serious ass IMO. I don't like Katie Holmes, but that's been discussed here many times, and it's not enough to make me not like the movie any less than the other 2.

CoMoChief
07-26-2012, 03:14 PM
So you want the Burton/Schumacher Batman again?

The 2 Burton Batman's weren't bad, the first one was good I thought, even though it was a little out of the story line.

Shumacher's Batman was hilariously bad. One of the worst movies of all time. LMAO

Easy 6
07-26-2012, 05:28 PM
Just got back, enjoyed every minute of it, but... its third best imo.

It seems like he introduced not only too many characters, but too many plot points as well, and didnt flesh out really any of them to my satisfaction... i keep thinking of the Matrix movies after the first one, trying to do too much & muddling everything in the process.

Despite the truly awesome ultra-geek diatribe by Wallcrawler, i'm not at all bothered that Nolan took liberties with the stories of Bane or whatsherface Al-Ghul, he had to try to tie it all together in 3 hours one way or another. Bane was expertly played by Hardy, loved the unexpected voice he used, almost like a Bond villain & his eyes projected as much evil i can imagine possible.

As i figured all along, i am NO fan of the Selena Kyle character, despite Hathaways incredible hotness... Kyle is unnecessary & beyond the bounds of my suspension of disbelief. JGL, his character was a bit more understandable, a cagey & troubled guy for Wayne to pass the torch to.

In the end, i dont feel at all cheated of my $8, but its still the third best one.

Sure-Oz
07-26-2012, 05:33 PM
This feeds into something I was thinking goes with the JGL at the end. I didn't see it brought up in the thread at all, but what if, and a big what if, JGL is Batman Beyond.

It's obvious Bruce is busted up, and can't really continue on, and JGL is right there, I think the plot could work. Bruce could be the mentor while JGL takes to the streets as the next Batman.

I could be, and more than likely am very wrong on this, but I just thought it was as good a guess as any of the others.

I never watched Batman Beyond but was that a good series? i loved the original animated show and at that point it was the best batman anything imo

Sure-Oz
07-26-2012, 05:36 PM
Just got back, enjoyed every minute of it, but... its third best imo.

It seems like he introduced not only too many characters, but too many plot points as well, and didnt flesh out really any of them to my satisfaction... i keep thinking of the Matrix movies after the first one, trying to do too much & muddling everything in the process.

Despite the truly awesome ultra-geek diatribe by Wallcrawler, i'm not at all bothered that Nolan took liberties with the stories of Bane or whatsherface Al-Ghul, he had to try to tie it all together in 3 hours one way or another. Bane was expertly played by Hardy, loved the unexpected voice he used, almost like a Bond villain & his eyes projected as much evil i can imagine possible.

As i figured all along, i am NO fan of the Selena Kyle character, despite Hathaways incredible hotness... Kyle is unnecessary & beyond the bounds of my suspension of disbelief. JGL, his character was a bit more understandable, a cagey & troubled guy for Wayne to pass the torch to.

In the end, i dont feel at all cheated of my $8, but its still the third best one.

It's a finish to the story...less batman for sure in the 3rd one but some really emotional and tight scenes cause of the first 2 movies.

I loved it, all 3 of them actually

Easy 6
07-26-2012, 05:56 PM
It's a finish to the story...less batman for sure in the 3rd one but some really emotional and tight scenes cause of the first 2 movies.

I loved it, all 3 of them actually

Yeah, theres plenty of gripping emotional scenes & i will still buy this for my collection, but its not quite what i was hoping for.

And despite my best intentions, i was glad to see that Wayne lived (atleast in my world) & ran away with the Kyle, although the character seemed to be lesbian... who wants to see Wayne die, anyway.

Silock
07-26-2012, 09:58 PM
Just finished seeing it again and it filled in some plot holes for me.

The first is the Bat making it six miles. It's obviously fast, as it can outrun missiles, so that gave me the "comic book movie logicical justification" to let the blast radius thing go.

The stock market fiasco is still a joke to me. I don't understand why it's difficult to determine that trades which wipe out a billionaire at the same time an attack happens are fraudulent. And the sundown at warp speed is a bit weird still.

When Bruce first tries to escape the prison, there are still two months left before the bomb goes off. Even if you give him a month to try two more times and get out, that still leaves a long time to get back into the city. And Bane's forces flat out tell the national guard that they don't have enough men to keep people from crossing the bridge. Fear is the only thing that is holding the people inside. And there is nothing stopping Bruce at that point from going in, especially since there's no way they can guard every way in to the city by water. They allude to as much when Gordon first gets shot in the sewer, saying that the tunnels lead everywhere and they could never find him.

Police officers will be kept alive, Bane says. He was intentionally giving them supplies and feeding them.

Talia early on says something about restoring balance to Gotham, so that was a cool tipoff for later in the movie.

I still don't see how Blake isn't going to be Robin. They never came out and called Kyle cat woman, but you know she is. Blake said he didn't want to wear a mask, and if he's Batman, that would be sorta mandatory. The statue in Batman's honor just signifies that he's gone. Wayne left Blake with the ability to become a new hero for Gotham and the Bat signal just means that someone is going to pick up where Batman left off.

Guru
07-26-2012, 10:08 PM
Yeah, the warp sundown was the thing the bugged me at the time. My oldest was asking me about it too.

Count Zarth
07-26-2012, 10:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/acsPs.jpg

Jawshco
07-26-2012, 11:59 PM
The thing I liked best about TDKR was that it had the same climatic ending as the 1960's Batman movie- Somedays you just can't get rid of a Bomb.


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ian4/136415634/" title="DaBomb by 1an, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/47/136415634_03f6dea387.jpg" width="400" height="464" alt="DaBomb"></a>

mikeyis4dcats.
07-27-2012, 10:33 AM
Just finished seeing it again and it filled in some plot holes for me.

The first is the Bat making it six miles. It's obviously fast, as it can outrun missiles, so that gave me the "comic book movie logicical justification" to let the blast radius thing go.

The stock market fiasco is still a joke to me. I don't understand why it's difficult to determine that trades which wipe out a billionaire at the same time an attack happens are fraudulent. And the sundown at warp speed is a bit weird still.

When Bruce first tries to escape the prison, there are still two months left before the bomb goes off. Even if you give him a month to try two more times and get out, that still leaves a long time to get back into the city. And Bane's forces flat out tell the national guard that they don't have enough men to keep people from crossing the bridge. Fear is the only thing that is holding the people inside. And there is nothing stopping Bruce at that point from going in, especially since there's no way they can guard every way in to the city by water. They allude to as much when Gordon first gets shot in the sewer, saying that the tunnels lead everywhere and they could never find him.

Police officers will be kept alive, Bane says. He was intentionally giving them supplies and feeding them.

Talia early on says something about restoring balance to Gotham, so that was a cool tipoff for later in the movie.

I still don't see how Blake isn't going to be Robin. They never came out and called Kyle cat woman, but you know she is. Blake said he didn't want to wear a mask, and if he's Batman, that would be sorta mandatory. The statue in Batman's honor just signifies that he's gone. Wayne left Blake with the ability to become a new hero for Gotham and the Bat signal just means that someone is going to pick up where Batman left off.

As I previously said, IMHO JGL becomes the next Batman. This sums it up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2012/07/26/the-meaning-of-joseph-gordon-levitts-fate-in-the-dark-knight-rises-spoilers/

lcarus
07-27-2012, 10:41 AM
As I previously said, IMHO JGL becomes the next Batman. This sums it up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2012/07/26/the-meaning-of-joseph-gordon-levitts-fate-in-the-dark-knight-rises-spoilers/

That's what I took from the movie. Doesn't really matter though. He's gonna be the next "hero" of Gotham, whether he's Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Blue Beetle, whatever he may call himself. The last scene with him in the cave and the bats flying past him made it feel like he would be Batman. That doesn't really prove it, but it's just how I felt.

Count Zarth
07-27-2012, 01:54 PM
He'll be Nightwing, because that stands the best chance of making a shitload of cash.

A Nightwing origin story > *

Silock
07-27-2012, 02:44 PM
As I previously said, IMHO JGL becomes the next Batman. This sums it up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2012/07/26/the-meaning-of-joseph-gordon-levitts-fate-in-the-dark-knight-rises-spoilers/

That's all well and good, except Robin never became Batman after he was done being Robin.

I don't think the title has as much literal interpretation to it as some are assigning it. Do you remember the last shot of Batman Begins before it went to the title? What did that have to do with "begins?" I don't at all see it any way except a "hero" rising. Batman left him the capability to fight crime, but I don't see how that makes him Batman. When he became a bat, he was embracing the thing he feared and that's what helped make him so powerful. How could Robin embrace that same thing to the same extent? He needs something of his own to motivate him. He needs his own symbol for justice, not something that was copied from someone else before him.

CoMoChief
07-27-2012, 03:30 PM
So if JGL becomes Batman, what's the story behind of how he gets his weapons, and how does he learn how to fight etc. Bruce Wayne got that from League of Shadows and his company's Applied Sciences dept.

Reaper16
07-27-2012, 03:32 PM
That's all well and good, except Robin never became Batman after he was done being Robin.

I don't think the title has as much literal interpretation to it as some are assigning it. Do you remember the last shot of Batman Begins before it went to the title? What did that have to do with "begins?" I don't at all see it any way except a "hero" rising. Batman left him the capability to fight crime, but I don't see how that makes him Batman. When he became a bat, he was embracing the thing he feared and that's what helped make him so powerful. How could Robin embrace that same thing to the same extent? He needs something of his own to motivate him. He needs his own symbol for justice, not something that was copied from someone else before him.

It's not about what he needs, it's about what Gotham City needs.

Silock
07-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Gotham needs a hero. It doesn't necessarily need Batman. Harvey Dent could have been the hero that Gotham needed.

mr. tegu
07-27-2012, 04:24 PM
So if JGL becomes Batman, what's the story behind of how he gets his weapons, and how does he learn how to fight etc. Bruce Wayne got that from League of Shadows and his company's Applied Sciences dept.

Bruce could teach him to fight. He also could just continue using stuff Fox gives him. JGL is obviously part of the loop so I'm sure he will be taken care of by Bruce's people.

Jawshco
07-27-2012, 04:42 PM
Actually three of the Robins did try to become Batman during Battle for the Cowl. Dick Grayson has become Batman on 3 separate occasions- one of those stints lasting more than a year.

I think Batman is the symbol. It doesn't matter who takes on the Cowl, but I do think it needs to be Batman.

Silock
07-27-2012, 04:47 PM
Actually three of the Robins did try to become Batman during Battle for the Cowl. Dick Grayson has become Batman on 3 separate occasions- one of those stints lasting more than a year.

I think Batman is the symbol. It doesn't matter who takes on the Cowl, but I do think it needs to be Batman.

But those were temporary, weren't they? I haven't read that particular story arc, but from what I gather, he was only there to make sure people didn't think Batman was dead, and Bruce reassumed Batman when he came back from injury. But Gotham already "knows" Batman is dead, so they just need another hero.

EDIT: Wasn't Azrael a cop, also?

Deberg_1990
07-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Tom Hardy raps!

Impressive



<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kdYlaD6e84w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chiefs Pantalones
07-27-2012, 09:48 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/394682_3700973165310_557385639_n.jpg

WhiteWhale
07-27-2012, 10:50 PM
I still contend that, absent of Nolan's lazy parallels to Batman Begins that were the cause of the whole "regain a fear of death" thing that doesn't end up figuring into the film's climax at all like not even one bit, someone choosing to forgo the rope when attempting that climb can be read as an act of fearlessness.

You kinda whiffed on this one buddy.

It wasn't about climbing. Bruce didn't struggle with the climb. It was about that one jump. That one moment.

If he had the rope and he failed... no big loss. He could try tomorrow. Without the rope it was all or nothing, and at that moment when he prepared for that jump the fear of failure would push him to exceed himself.

luv
07-28-2012, 12:14 AM
I've herd people say that this was the darkest of the three. Not sure I would say the same thing. The Joker's character made that movie dark. I'm not sure if it was Heath Ledger or the media hoopla surrounding his death shortly after that made that movie seem like more than it might have been, though. Anyway, I enjoyed the last one. Very well done.

SnakeXJones
07-28-2012, 02:22 AM
Loved it even at the man allergies at the end

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 09:00 AM
It seems a lot of people (not just here, but on other boards, reviews, etc) are saying they felt Bane was neutered in the second act, that it was a big mistake to take all the wind out of him in favor of the "lame" Talia twist. People are saying they don't care about Talia at all, that they want more Bane. I happen to disagree, but it seems a common issue with the film.

For those who didn't like the twist and felt it hindered Bane, can I ask how you felt about Ra's reveal in Batman Begins? Because that is sort of the same thing, isn't it? Scarecrow seems to be the villain, he sort of disappears later in the movie, has a final scene that feels maybe anti-climactic, and all in favor of revealing that Ducard is alive and is, in fact, Ra's al Ghul.

If Batman Begins didn't bother you, but TDKR did, may I ask why? Is it how powerful Bane is versus how powerful Scarecrow is? Is it because we had more time to invest in Ducard/Ra's? I'm just curious. This isn't meant to be a challenge or anything, just conversation.

Mr. Plow
07-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Don't listen to Red Brooklyn....he's challenging you.

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 09:59 AM
Don't listen to Red Brooklyn....he's challenging you.
Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?!

Reaper16
07-28-2012, 10:25 AM
You kinda whiffed on this one buddy.

It wasn't about climbing. Bruce didn't struggle with the climb. It was about that one jump. That one moment.

If he had the rope and he failed... no big loss. He could try tomorrow. Without the rope it was all or nothing, and at that moment when he prepared for that jump the fear of failure would push him to exceed himself.

The rope was the very thing that prevents people from completing the jump. Only two people have escaped from that prison, and both didn't use the rope. That jump was so easy a little girl made it.

It totally makes the hyper-intelligent Bane look like a fucking idiot for not figuring it out. Which leads me to...

It seems a lot of people (not just here, but on other boards, reviews, etc) are saying they felt Bane was neutered in the second act, that it was a big mistake to take all the wind out of him in favor of the "lame" Talia twist. People are saying they don't care about Talia at all, that they want more Bane. I happen to disagree, but it seems a common issue with the film.

For those who didn't like the twist and felt it hindered Bane, can I ask how you felt about Ra's reveal in Batman Begins? Because that is sort of the same thing, isn't it? Scarecrow seems to be the villain, he sort of disappears later in the movie, has a final scene that feels maybe anti-climactic, and all in favor of revealing that Ducard is alive and is, in fact, Ra's al Ghul.

If Batman Begins didn't bother you, but TDKR did, may I ask why? Is it how powerful Bane is versus how powerful Scarecrow is? Is it because we had more time to invest in Ducard/Ra's? I'm just curious. This isn't meant to be a challenge or anything, just conversation.

I'll need to watch Begins again, because its' been like six or seven years since I've seen it. But it probably has to do with how powerful and smart Bane is, and how much the Talia twist directly takes away from what the audience was to understand was the source of Bane's power and intelligence: his ability (that allowed him) to escape the prison.

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 10:37 AM
The rope was the very thing that prevents people from completing the jump. Only two people have escaped from that prison, and both didn't use the rope. That jump was so easy a little girl made it.

It totally makes the hyper-intelligent Bane look like a fucking idiot for not figuring it out.
I'll need to see TDKR again, but I'm interpreting that differently. I'm not sure the rope was a trick, or a puzzle to be solved. I had the impression that the jump is actually very difficult. The only reason Talia made the jump was desperation and fear. Same with Bruce.

I don't think there was anything for Bane to figure out.

Also, I'm not sure how long Bane was in prison before Talia busted him out. Actually, now I don't remember, do they ever tell us how Bane got out?

Reaper16
07-28-2012, 10:42 AM
I'll need to see TDKR again, but I'm interpreting that differently. I'm not sure the rope was a trick, or a puzzle to be solved. I had the impression that the jump is actually very difficult. The only reason Talia made the jump was desperation and fear. Same with Bruce.

I don't think there was anything for Bane to figure out.

Also, I'm not sure how long Bane was in prison before Talia busted him out. Actually, now I don't remember, do they ever tell us how Bane got out?

I was mostly being facetious when I said it was easy. But I am convinced that it is impossible to make the jump with the rope.

Bane was rescued by Ra's and his team of mercenaries. He was chilling out in some corner of the prison with cloth covering his bloody mandible, presumably living in excruciating pain.

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 10:47 AM
I was mostly being facetious when I said it was easy. But I am convinced that it is impossible to make the jump with the rope.

Bane was rescued by Ra's and his team of mercenaries. He was chilling out in some corner of the prison with cloth covering his bloody mandible, presumably living in excruciating pain.
Right. Cool. Thanks. So he wasn't probably in there too terribly much longer after Talia escaped. I mean, it was probably a matter of months, not years, right?

I'm guessing had Bane still be in prison once he returned to full strength, he probably would have made the jump.

So I don't see that (the rope/escape/Talia reveal) as taking away from/neutering the character.

bowener
07-28-2012, 11:04 AM
Bane wore the mask for pain caused by the plague that was spreading through the prison, right? That is why his face hole was all bloody when he was rescued?

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 11:09 AM
Bane wore the mask for pain caused by the plague that was spreading through the prison, right? That is why his face hole was all bloody when he was rescued?
Oh. Maybe. I thought it was from the massive beat down he took helping Talia escape.

I need to see it again.

Reaper16
07-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Bane wore the mask for pain caused by the plague that was spreading through the prison, right? That is why his face hole was all bloody when he was rescued?

That was my interpretation.

Buehler445
07-28-2012, 11:24 AM
Bane wore the mask for pain caused by the plague that was spreading through the prison, right? That is why his face hole was all bloody when he was rescued?

I thought the doctor said that it was from the beatdown he took, but I could be wrong.

Reaper16
07-28-2012, 11:25 AM
If it was from the beatdown then why does Bane need the medication mask? You heal from getting beat up.

Buehler445
07-28-2012, 11:47 AM
If it was from the beatdown then why does Bane need the medication mask? You heal from getting beat up.

I dunno. I usually try to avoid getting my ass beat.

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 12:53 PM
If it was from the beatdown then why does Bane need the medication mask? You heal from getting beat up.
Good point.

Maybe it's a combination of both? The infection caused by the plague or whatever was made worse because of the wounds he suffered? I don't know.

I thought the beat down was so bad that it permanently damaged his respiratory system. And the doctor tried to repair what he could, but much like Joker in Burton's Batman, the operations couldn't really repair anything/ just made shit worse.

Is the mask medicinal? Or is it just kinda like a super advanced respirator?

Reaper16
07-28-2012, 01:11 PM
Good point.

Maybe it's a combination of both? The infection caused by the plague or whatever was made worse because of the wounds he suffered? I don't know.

I thought the beat down was so bad that it permanently damaged his respiratory system. And the doctor tried to repair what he could, but much like Joker in Burton's Batman, the operations couldn't really repair anything/ just made shit worse.

Is the mask medicinal? Or is it just kinda like a super advanced respirator?

I thought it was supplying painkiller medication to him.

I should really see this movie again.

Red Brooklyn
07-28-2012, 01:31 PM
I thought it was supplying painkiller medication to him.

I should really see this movie again.
You and me both.

JD10367
07-28-2012, 02:19 PM
Actually, it took my 20th viewing to notice that loophole. When Batman is in the prison, his helper/warden is telling him how a child escaped, and how we assume that child is Bane. In the same scene, I believe, he mentions that Bane was beaten by the prisoners and how the mask "controls the pain". Well, if supposedly we are led to believe a child escaped, and the child is Bane... how the fuck did the adult Bane get beaten by prisoners to the point of needing a pain-controlling mask? :shrug:

As for Bane being dispatched quickly, I also felt that to be a bit cheap. He'd been built up all through the film as this combination of cerebral anarchy/socialism and physical power. And as soon as Talia reveals herself as the child, Catwoman blows Bane literally out of the film with the Batcycle's guns. Seems like a rude and unfitting end to a guy who was built up all film as "the baddie".

Guru
07-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Actually, it took my 20th viewing to notice that loophole. When Batman is in the prison, his helper/warden is telling him how a child escaped, and how we assume that child is Bane. In the same scene, I believe, he mentions that Bane was beaten by the prisoners and how the mask "controls the pain". Well, if supposedly we are led to believe a child escaped, and the child is Bane... how the **** did the adult Bane get beaten by prisoners to the point of needing a pain-controlling mask? :shrug:

As for Bane being dispatched quickly, I also felt that to be a bit cheap. He'd been built up all through the film as this combination of cerebral anarchy/socialism and physical power. And as soon as Talia reveals herself as the child, Catwoman blows Bane literally out of the film with the Batcycle's guns. Seems like a rude and unfitting end to a guy who was built up all film as "the baddie".

The thing I hated was how easily Bane was ultimately taken out. Catwoman showing up at just the right time to obliterate him. Drove me nuts seeing Batman win because somebody else killed his opponent. They should have had Batman win that battle on his own. That was disappointing.

EDIT

That is what made Begins so satisfying for me. It was a great ending in the way he took out Ras

patteeu
07-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Actually, it took my 20th viewing to notice that loophole. When Batman is in the prison, his helper/warden is telling him how a child escaped, and how we assume that child is Bane. In the same scene, I believe, he mentions that Bane was beaten by the prisoners and how the mask "controls the pain". Well, if supposedly we are led to believe a child escaped, and the child is Bane... how the **** did the adult Bane get beaten by prisoners to the point of needing a pain-controlling mask? :shrug:

The child they say escaped was Talia, not Bane. We just don't know it at that point.

luv
07-28-2012, 03:18 PM
The child they say escaped was Talia, not Bane. We just don't know it at that point.

He was speaking to the point that everyone thought it was Bane. If we would have paid attention, we should have realized that Bane couldn't have been the child.

mr. tegu
07-28-2012, 03:26 PM
The thing I hated was how easily Bane was ultimately taken out. Catwoman showing up at just the right time to obliterate him. Drove me nuts seeing Batman win because somebody else killed his opponent. They should have had Batman win that battle on his own. That was disappointing.

EDIT

That is what made Begins so satisfying for me. It was a great ending in the way he took out Ras

This was also my only beef with the movie. Everything else was awesome but Bane was there one second and gone the next. Their final fight could have been much more epic.

tk13
07-28-2012, 03:48 PM
Maybe I'm just too easy going. I didn't have a problem with any of that. Bane and Batman had just had a great fight and Batman had taken him down. Bane was only saved by Talia. I thought that was a great moment when Batman turned the fight in his favor and started knocking Bane around.

Plus, his faith in Selina Kyle paid off. That was important, especially after his trust in Miranda Tate had just been destroyed. When it reached the brink, we found out who everyone really was.

Jawshco
07-28-2012, 03:52 PM
But those were temporary, weren't they? I haven't read that particular story arc, but from what I gather, he was only there to make sure people didn't think Batman was dead, and Bruce reassumed Batman when he came back from injury. But Gotham already "knows" Batman is dead, so they just need another hero.

EDIT: Wasn't Azrael a cop, also?

The most recent "death" of the Bruce Batman was billed as being permanent and was known by all who really knew him. He was killed by Darkseid and during the Blackest Night series, you even have characters walking around with Bruce/Batman's skull. During this period Gordon realizes something is up when Dick is Batman and Bruce's son Damian is the new Robin, but he doesn't explicitly say that he knows that the first Batman is gone. How did the skeletal Bruce return from the dead? That story is too weird to explain.

Azreal as a cop? I'm not sure. I just remember that he became brain washed by the spirits of the Order of St Dumas & became a crazed vigilante knight with a flaming sword.

bowener
07-28-2012, 04:30 PM
To be fair, Bane's ass got saved by a backstabbing bitch (literally). Batman had him curled up like a masked fetus. It is kind of interesting that both of these cerebral and physically powerful men were each saved by a woman.

luv
07-28-2012, 05:16 PM
Also, I'm sure it's been mentioned and I haven't read it, but was Hines Ward on the football team?

Fire Me Boy!
07-28-2012, 05:43 PM
Also, I'm sure it's been mentioned and I haven't read it, but was Hines Ward on the football team?

Yes. He was the kickoff returner that survived.

luv
07-28-2012, 07:57 PM
Yes. He was the kickoff returner that survived.

Thought that was him. It showed his face during the National Anthem, too.

Canofbier
07-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Just saw this tonight. Not to troll or anything, but IMO this whole trilogy is completely overrated. The movie was fun and all, but the plot was ludicrous and there were several "what the fuck" moments in the movie, and not the good kind. It wouldn't have been such a problem if the series didn't take itself so goddamn seriously.

Superturtle
07-28-2012, 11:29 PM
Just saw this tonight. Not to troll or anything, but IMO this whole trilogy is completely overrated. The movie was fun and all, but the plot was ludicrous and there were several "what the fuck" moments in the movie, and not the good kind. It wouldn't have been such a problem if the series didn't take itself so goddamn seriously.
Gotham has some stupid fucking cops.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 12:47 AM
Finally saw it.

I will say this: Nolan shares my intense love for brunettes.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 03:10 AM
http://i.imgur.com/TbU4s.gif

Sure-Oz
07-29-2012, 08:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/TbU4s.gif

LMAO

luv
07-29-2012, 08:51 AM
Gotham has some stupid ****ing cops.

That's what I thought. Eight years with no organized crime really made them go soft.

Mr. Plow
07-29-2012, 09:15 AM
Actually, it took my 20th viewing to notice that loophole. When Batman is in the prison, his helper/warden is telling him how a child escaped, and how we assume that child is Bane. In the same scene, I believe, he mentions that Bane was beaten by the prisoners and how the mask "controls the pain". Well, if supposedly we are led to believe a child escaped, and the child is Bane... how the fuck did the adult Bane get beaten by prisoners to the point of needing a pain-controlling mask? :shrug:


Maybe I'm wrong....

I believe they are talking about a child that escapes, but it is never said that is Bane. They are also talking about how the child had a protector, but never specifically say that it is Bane. None of that (mask to control the pain, etc) is really revealed until Talia explains it to Batman at the end of the movie.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 09:31 AM
Maybe I'm wrong....

I believe they are talking about a child that escapes, but it is never said that is Bane. They are also talking about how the child had a protector, but never specifically say that it is Bane. None of that (mask to control the pain, etc) is really revealed until Talia explains it to Batman at the end of the movie.

Yeah, in the movie Bruce Wayne says, "Bane" when the dude is telling him about it. Filling in the blanks for the audience. If we didn't have our heads in our asses we would have known at the time.

Guru
07-29-2012, 09:34 AM
Maybe I'm wrong....

I believe they are talking about a child that escapes, but it is never said that is Bane. They are also talking about how the child had a protector, but never specifically say that it is Bane. None of that (mask to control the pain, etc) is really revealed until Talia explains it to Batman at the end of the movie.

Yep, the whole point of the story was to get the audience to assume the child was Bane. Only the people that were aware of Banes origin knew there was no way he could have been the child once they revealed Ras to be the father.

JD10367
07-29-2012, 09:35 AM
Maybe I'm wrong....

I believe they are talking about a child that escapes, but it is never said that is Bane. They are also talking about how the child had a protector, but never specifically say that it is Bane. None of that (mask to control the pain, etc) is really revealed until Talia explains it to Batman at the end of the movie.

Nope. Talia reiterates it during the stabbing scene, but Batman's warden in prison says that Bane has to wear the mask because he was attacked by prisoners, and that the mask controls the pain. I'll get the exact quotes in a bit. (Right now I'm at the scene where Wayne sneaks into the hospital to see Gordon, so it's about an hour away.)

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 10:32 AM
This is pretty true. They could have done a better job with the rematch.

Why after having being severely beaten by Bane does he just go back for a direct fight against him ? I would have preferred to see some action ala Miller's Dark Knight, when he realizes that the villain is much stronger than him and brings him in a place where he can nullify his advantages. Brain against brute force, that's what Batman is supposed to be...

patteeu
07-29-2012, 10:43 AM
This is pretty true. They could have done a better job with the rematch.

Sometimes the situation is so dire that you don't have the luxury of waiting for optimum conditions.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Sometimes the situation is so dire that you don't have the luxury of waiting for optimum conditions.

See, I disagree here. Fox said that bat thing was made for crowd control. He just had to use it to take out some tumblers and then he was wide open. Why didn't he just plug away at the league of shadows dudes? Nope. He dumps it and goes to beat on Bane.

But from the story perspective, I understand why it was important. He had to show that he was back in it. He had to beat Bane. But tactically, he sacrificed a SHITLOAD of cops lives because he didn't blow holes in Bane's force with his plane.

That being said, I didn't think it detracted from the movie much. I tremendously enjoyed him pisspounding Bane.

JD10367
07-29-2012, 10:56 AM
So, indeed, the child is mentioned first, the implication/assumption is put forth that it's Bane, and then they mention the plague/mask, and then go right back to the child story. So, clearly, unless Bane somehow grew up outside the hole, then accidentally tripped and fell back in, it's impossible for him to get beaten up and need the mask.

---------

First scene of Batman in the prison (after the one where Bane tells him his plan and says, "When Gotham is in ashes, then you have my permission to die."

Warden: "They pay me more than that to keep you alive."

(prisoners tying rope around one man)

W: "He will try to climb."

Batman: "Has anyone ever made it?"

W: "Of course not."

(man fails)

(blind old man in other cell mumbles in foreign language)

W: "He says there is one who did. A child. A child born in this hell."

B: "Bane?"

W: "An old legend. Nothing more."

Next scene in the prison, after Bane sets off all the bombs and gives his speech in the football stadium and then frees everyone in the prison.

(Batman falls out of bed onto floor, tries to get up.)

(Old blind man muttering.)

W: "He says you must first fix your back."

B: "How does he know?"

W: "He was the prison doctor, (and) a morphine addict... (inaudible dialogue, something about "he took care of the prisoners here" I think)... including your master, Bane. Many years ago, it was a time of plague. Some of the other prsoners attacked Bane. In the doctor's fumbling attempts to repair the damage, it left him in perpetual agony. The mask holds the pain at bay."

B: "Bane, is the child you spoke of, he was born here?"

(story of the warlord's daughter)

W: "This is Bane's prison now, he wouldn't want this story told."

patteeu
07-29-2012, 10:57 AM
See, I disagree here. Fox said that bat thing was made for crowd control. He just had to use it to take out some tumblers and then he was wide open. Why didn't he just plug away at the league of shadows dudes? Nope. He dumps it and goes to beat on Bane.

But from the story perspective, I understand why it was important. He had to show that he was back in it. He had to beat Bane. But tactically, he sacrificed a SHITLOAD of cops lives because he didn't blow holes in Bane's force with his plane.

That being said, I didn't think it detracted from the movie much. I tremendously enjoyed him pisspounding Bane.

Batman doesn't use guns against people, does he? I don't remember what the bat thing is that you're talking about.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:00 AM
Batman doesn't use guns against people, does he? I don't remember what the bat thing is that you're talking about.

The plane? You don't remember the plane? Right before the big end fight, he flies it right up to City Hall. Then ditches it and fights Bane.

patteeu
07-29-2012, 11:01 AM
The plane? You don't remember the plane? Right before the big end fight, he flies it right up to City Hall. Then ditches it and fights Bane.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the plane. Did it have any non-lethal incapacitating weapons on it?

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:05 AM
This is pretty true. They could have done a better job with the rematch.

The Batman in this movie was not thinking things through. He was fueled more by anger.

The plot made that clear.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:07 AM
Here's a question I have:

Why is it important that we believe that story about Bane trying to ascend out of the prison, only to learn that it's Talia?

In what way does that serve the story?

I'm just trying to understand the movie better.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:17 AM
Sometimes the situation is so dire that you don't have the luxury of waiting for optimum conditions.

Then write it differently.

It was kind of a weak "boss fight."

There's a great Batman comic about Bruce Wayne taking out Azrael, who had been impersonating Batman for some time. Batman doesn't beat him with brute force. He does it with cunning, forcing Azrael to shed his armor and weakening his advantage. Batman defeats Azrael and Azrael admits Bruce is the true Batman.

Nolan gave us YARRR PUNCH PUNCH BRAWL ARRRRRRGH CATWOMAN SNEAK SAVE

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:19 AM
Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the plane. Did it have any non-lethal incapacitating weapons on it?

He blew some shit up with it. IDK. Fox just said it was crowd control. And wouldn't you know it. Bane had a crowd out there.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:20 AM
The Batman in this movie was not thinking things through. He was fueled more by anger.

The plot made that clear.

Yeah, it kind of sucks. That's not Batman.

There's a lot of hamfisted screenwriting in this movie. It's awesome, but could have been better.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Here's a question I have:

Why is it important that we believe that story about Bane trying to ascend out of the prison, only to learn that it's Talia?

In what way does that serve the story?

I'm just trying to understand the movie better.

The whole Talia plotline is a complete waste of time.

I mean, at the end of the movie she's fighting HARD so she can die in a nuclear explosion.

What?

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Then write it differently.

It was kind of a weak "boss fight."

There's a great Batman comic about Bruce Wayne taking out Azrael, who had been impersonating Batman for some time. Batman doesn't beat him with brute force. He does it with cunning, forcing Azrael to shed his armor and weakening his advantage. Batman defeats Azrael and Azrael admits Bruce is the true Batman.

Nolan gave us YARRR PUNCH PUNCH BRAWL ARRRRRRGH CATWOMAN SNEAK SAVE

Eh. I don't know. When he was pisspounding Bane, I thought it was a pretty good boss beatdown. The only reason Catwoman had to come back was because after he had annihilated Bane is because Talia stuffed a shiv in his ribs. He had beaten Bane.

EDIT: and isn't what Batman did to Azrael exactly the same as Bane? He went for the mask and jerked the hoses off weakening him.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Yeah, it kind of sucks. That's not Batman.

There's a lot of hamfisted screenwriting in this movie. It's awesome, but could have been better.

Well, Batman's not a real person in this universe. Bruce Wayne is.

And Bruce Wayne's inability to harness his fury was what drove him into the arms of Ra's Al Ghul in the first place.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:23 AM
The whole Talia plotline is a complete waste of time.

I mean, at the end of the movie she's fighting HARD so she can die in a nuclear explosion.

What?

She's fighting hard to preserve her father's vision, for what it's worth.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:24 AM
Eh. I don't know. When he was pisspounding Bane, I thought it was a pretty good boss beatdown. The only reason Catwoman had to come back was because after he had annihilated Bane is because Talia stuffed a shiv in his ribs. He had beaten Bane.

I forget which member said it in this thread, but both were saved by the women in their lives.

Bat's side got the one-up on Bane's in this particular instance because Bane's helper ran off seeing to the city's annihilation.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:25 AM
Eh. I don't know. When he was pisspounding Bane, I thought it was a pretty good boss beatdown.

He got his ass kicked by Bane earlier.

Now he gets his back broken, does a few pushups and pullups in a hole, and he can come back and beat Bane?

It's sloppy as shit and not very satisfying, RAR BATROCKY BEAT HIM moment or not.

tk13
07-29-2012, 11:28 AM
The whole Talia plotline is a complete waste of time.

I mean, at the end of the movie she's fighting HARD so she can die in a nuclear explosion.

What?

No terrorist would ever do that.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:28 AM
He got his ass kicked by Bane earlier.

Now he gets his back broken, does a few pushups and pullups in a hole, and he can come back and beat Bane?

It's sloppy as shit and not very satisfying, RAR BATROCKY BEAT HIM moment or not.

His back was screwed up. Not broken. But after they got it lined out, he'd get back into shape if all he did for 6 months if all he had to do was work out. And it is more about mentally beating Bane than physically.

I guess I'm not expecting as much as you are.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:30 AM
His back was screwed up. Not broken. But after they got it lined out, he'd get back into shape if all he did for 6 months if all he had to do was work out. And it is more about mentally beating Bane than physically.

That's how I interpreted it.

The back breaking was clearly alluded to, but his back was not broken.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:31 AM
His back was screwed up. Not broken. But after they got it lined out, he'd get back into shape if all he did for 6 months if all he had to do was work out. And it is more about mentally beating Bane than physically.

I guess I'm not expecting as much as you are.

Batman was pretty much reduced to Rocky.

He's deeper than that.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:32 AM
That's how I interpreted it.

The back breaking was clearly alluded to, but his back was not broken.

Well, they said that the vertebrae was sticking out and they had to put it back in. That's when they tied him up and beat on him some then told him to stay until he can stand.

tk13
07-29-2012, 11:32 AM
I do have to say I am amazed at how much people are dissecting this movie. I think some people are trying too hard to be smart here.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:33 AM
And it is more about mentally beating Bane than physically.

He physically beat Bane with brute strength.

A few months after he couldn't even touch him.

Did they have Super P90X in that prison?

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:34 AM
Batman was pretty much reduced to Rocky.

He's deeper than that.

Disagree.

There isn't really much different than him making Azreal take his armor off. He went after Bane's mask and exposed him to tremendous pain. Same shit in my mind.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:34 AM
I do have to say I am amazed at how much people are dissecting this movie. I think some people are trying too hard to be smart here.

I liked the movie, but reading criticisms punches a few holes in it.

I don't buy the way Batman beat Bane after reflecting on it at.

It's lazy, sloppy screenwriting.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-29-2012, 11:34 AM
Well, they said that the vertebrae was sticking out and they had to put it back in. That's when they tied him up and beat on him some then told him to stay until he can stand.

bulging disk <> broken back

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:35 AM
Disagree.

There isn't really much different than him making Azreal take his armor off. He went after Bane's mask and exposed him to tremendous pain. Same shit in my mind.

So Batman was too dumb to figure that out the first time?

No one ever tried to attack Bane's weak spot before?

Come on.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:35 AM
He physically beat Bane with brute strength.

A few months after he couldn't even touch him.

Did they have Super P90X in that prison?

It was a mental thing. It was alluded to in the movie that the first time, he went in there to die. He came back fearing death so he fought smarter instead of just brawling. And before he had done nothing for 8 years. So doing anything would be compared to P90X.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:37 AM
I do have to say I am amazed at how much people are dissecting this movie. I think some people are trying too hard to be smart here.

I'm not overanalyzing. I'm in the camp that it was super entertaining and all these criticisms are off base IMO.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:38 AM
So Batman was too dumb to figure that out the first time?

No one ever tried to attack Bane's weak spot before?

Come on.

Apparently. He didn't go after it. He tried to just beat him like he beat everyone else.

Count Zarth
07-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Apparently. He didn't go after it.

LMAO

Batman's pretty dumb for a guy who's supposed to be a genius level IQ.

Direckshun
07-29-2012, 11:39 AM
He physically beat Bane with brute strength.

A few months after he couldn't even touch him.

Did they have Super P90X in that prison?

I'm pretty sure he was pisspounding Batman the second time as well until Batman landed a shot to the Goatse mask.

Buehler445
07-29-2012, 11:42 AM
LMAO

Batman's pretty dumb for a guy who's supposed to be a genius level IQ.

Meh. I'm not worried about it. Like I said, he locked himself in his house for 8 years. Then he trained for 6 months specifically to fight Bane. Not all that unreasonable.