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mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 03:42 AM
For anyone who has seen the movie and wants to discuss it.

Silock
07-20-2012, 03:45 AM
If you played Arkham Asylum or follow the comics, you knew that Bane wasn't the son of Rhaas Al Ghoul, so you knew Talia was coming sometime. I liked knowing that, though, because it resulted in an hour's worth of "Oh shit! They are fucked!"

Rams Fan
07-20-2012, 03:47 AM
I shall stay clean:

I dislike John Blake's real name being revealed as Robin. God damn it, if you are going to introduce Robin into the trilogy, just have it revealed his name is Tim Drake.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 03:52 AM
If you played Arkham Asylum or follow the comics, you knew that Bane wasn't the son of Rhaas Al Ghoul, so you knew Talia was coming sometime. I liked knowing that, though, because it resulted in an hour's worth of "Oh shit! They are ****ed!"

I had not one clue who it was though. I was plesantly surprised. I just wish they would've elaborated more on the relationship between Talia and Bruce

Bambi
07-20-2012, 03:52 AM
Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

Rams Fan
07-20-2012, 03:53 AM
Anyone else find it interesting that Bane was in an outfit similar to that of the Red Hood?

Rams Fan
07-20-2012, 03:53 AM
Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

Bull ****ing shit.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 03:56 AM
Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

Trolling?

Silock
07-20-2012, 03:57 AM
Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

Let's be honest -- you're trying to start shit because it amuses you.

Tribal Warfare
07-20-2012, 04:01 AM
The dynamic between Alfred and Bruce was one of the real highlights of the movie ( non- action wise)

Tribal Warfare
07-20-2012, 04:03 AM
I shall stay clean:

I dislike John Blake's real name being revealed as Robin. God damn it, if you are going to introduce Robin into the trilogy, just have it revealed his name is Tim Drake.

Grayson, Dick Grayson

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 04:05 AM
The dynamic between Alfred and Bruce was one of the real highlights of the movie ( non- action wise)

I agree. Cain is by far the best Alfred.

DBOSHO
07-20-2012, 04:37 AM
I cant decide whether i thought banes voice was comical or creepy, but it did have a sort of jolliness in it that was unnerving. I know i couldnt understand a 3rd of what he said.

Tom hardy is big as fuck.

mcaj22
07-20-2012, 05:01 AM
i felt in this one the core of the cast wasnt diverse enough. In a sense that it was hard for me to suspend my belief and create the distance between the actors and actresses of their characters in the Batman Nolan-Universe. Nolan used WAY too many of the cast out of Inception, and it just reminded me of their roles and characters in Inception. That's the problem when you use too many of your "buddies" in a movie. No different than when Apatow uses the same group of actors in every comedy movie he makes, it gets stale really quick and it just made it hard for me to buy in.

Everybody in Inception but Leo DiCaprio was the entire core of the Batman movie and just like they complimented DiCaprio in Inception they did it to Bale in Batman, they just did a poor job of selling their roles because of the precedent being set as a core in Inception.

It was a good movie though, but you could tell it was Nolan's "guys."

CoMoChief
07-20-2012, 08:21 AM
Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

LMAO....not even close man.

And to be honest while Hedger's performance was great, he surely wouldn't have gotten as much hype if it weren't for the way he died and story behind it all.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 10:50 AM
i felt in this one the core of the cast wasnt diverse enough. In a sense that it was hard for me to suspend my belief and create the distance between the actors and actresses of their characters in the Batman Nolan-Universe. Nolan used WAY too many of the cast out of Inception, and it just reminded me of their roles and characters in Inception. That's the problem when you use too many of your "buddies" in a movie. No different than when Apatow uses the same group of actors in every comedy movie he makes, it gets stale really quick and it just made it hard for me to buy in.

Everybody in Inception but Leo DiCaprio was the entire core of the Batman movie and just like they complimented DiCaprio in Inception they did it to Bale in Batman, they just did a poor job of selling their roles because of the precedent being set as a core in Inception.

It was a good movie though, but you could tell it was Nolan's "guys."
I couldn't disagree more with this take.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 10:52 AM
The dynamic between Alfred and Bruce was one of the real highlights of the movie ( non- action wise)

I also have a qualm with this. That scene in the beginning where Alfred talks about his daydream during Bruce's 7-year vacation from Gotham, in which he imagined seeing Wayne with a family, etc.? That scene was retroactively ruined by the TWIST! in the ending montage.

So much of TDKR has moments that you think are good character moments but later you realize that the only purpose they served in the film was to swerve the audience, to set up a patented Nolan TWIST!

SLAG
07-20-2012, 11:06 AM
Grayson, Dick Grayson

This 1000x this

SLAG
07-20-2012, 11:09 AM
I also have a qualm with this. That scene in the beginning where Alfred talks about his daydream during Bruce's 7-year vacation from Gotham, in which he imagined seeing Wayne with a family, etc.? That scene was retroactively ruined by the TWIST! in the ending montage.

So much of TDKR has moments that you think are good character moments but later you realize that the only purpose they served in the film was to swerve the audience, to set up a patented Nolan TWIST!

Can you explain this to me a bit more

What was the Twist?

The fact that Bruce was with Cat Woman? The Fact that he didn't die?

Just a little confused

SLAG
07-20-2012, 11:10 AM
I really enjoyed the bane story line - I am glad he broke batman's back but I think bruce healed a bit quickly.

I had a small qualm with Bane's voice - it sounded too clear quality wise - for being muffled - it seemed dubbed over to me - does this make sense

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 12:05 PM
Can you explain this to me a bit more

What was the Twist?

The fact that Bruce was with Cat Woman? The Fact that he didn't die?

Just a little confused
Yeah, that. The twist was that Wayne somehow didn't die when piloting the nuke out to sea.

I really enjoyed the bane story line - I am glad he broke batman's back but I think bruce healed a bit quickly.

I had a small qualm with Bane's voice - it sounded too clear quality wise - for being muffled - it seemed dubbed over to me - does this make sense
They went back in post-production and re-did Tom Hardy's lines, iirc. There were a couple of spots in the movie where Hardy's movements/body language/eyes didn't match up to the dubbed lines, but only a couple.

DBOSHO
07-20-2012, 12:12 PM
The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 12:20 PM
The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

"The shadows betray you, because they work for me."

Awesome line and interaction.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 01:26 PM
So much of TDKR has moments that you think are good character moments but later you realize that the only purpose they served in the film was to swerve the audience, to set up a patented Nolan TWIST!
Wait, are you talking about TDKR or Breaking Bad? :D

(Sorry, cheap shot, had to)

Seriously though, it didn't bother me one bit. I guess because I didn't see it as a twist. I knew going in there was no way they were killing off Bruce Wayne.

I'm just THRILLED we got the breaking of the Bat. That's all I really wanted. Well, that, and a competent Catwoman.

I'm satisfied on both scores.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 01:36 PM
Of course it was a cheap shot. You'd get a much better shot, one that actually makes sense, if you paid more for it. (I can see your argument as to how BB puts characters in service of the plot. But TDKR puts characters in service of plot twists. That's a different thing)

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 01:44 PM
My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 02:00 PM
My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

I thought the lesson learned in the prison was to have a healthy fear of death. That fear of dying enabled Bruce (minus the rope) to climb out of the prison. His whole life was about suppressing and fighting fear with fear I figured he had become immune to fear, hence him becoming a recluse, aching to be Batman again. The lesson he learned in the prison enabled him to move on and live life as Bruce Wayne.

That was my take at least.

Fire Me Boy!
07-20-2012, 02:31 PM
I shall stay clean:

I dislike John Blake's real name being revealed as Robin. God damn it, if you are going to introduce Robin into the trilogy, just have it revealed his name is Tim Drake.

Yes.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 03:22 PM
I thought the lesson learned in the prison was to have a healthy fear of death. That fear of dying enabled Bruce (minus the rope) to climb out of the prison. His whole life was about suppressing and fighting fear with fear I figured he had become immune to fear, hence him becoming a recluse, aching to be Batman again. The lesson he learned in the prison enabled him to move on and live life as Bruce Wayne.

That was my take at least.

Losing a fear of death allows him to move on from being Batman? That's a solid take. Makes sense.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Losing a fear of death allows him to move on from being Batman? That's a solid take. Makes sense.

I wouldn't say losing fear of death. I would say regaining his fear of death. The League of Shadows groomed him to be the perfect mercenary, to be without fear which, in turn, made him Batman. To return to humanity, as Bruce Wayne, he needed that fear re-established.

Sucky
07-20-2012, 03:33 PM
Weakest of the trilogy BUT still good.

I'll definitely see it again in theaters!

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 03:42 PM
I wouldn't say losing fear of death. I would say regaining his fear of death. The League of Shadows groomed him to be the perfect mercenary, to be without fear which, in turn, made him Batman. To return to humanity, as Bruce Wayne, he needed that fear re-established.

Oh. But...that doesn't jibe with the scene that I saw last night. Unless I misheard some key bit of dialogue. Because it seems like you'd wear that rope because you were afraid of dying (from a slip of the foot or from not making that leap. Because you, in that prison, will have seen many people try and fail, and so you'll want a safety precaution).

Bruce even says in the prison how he's afraid of x, y, and z. That was before he learned the stuff that allowed him to get out of the pit.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Oh. But...that doesn't jibe with the scene that I saw last night. Unless I misheard some key bit of dialogue. Because it seems like you'd wear that rope because you were afraid of dying (from a slip of the foot or from not making that leap. Because you, in that prison, will have seen many people try and fail, and so you'll want a safety precaution).

Bruce even says in the prison how he's afraid of x, y, and z. That was before he learned the stuff that allowed him to get out of the pit.

One of us misheard. But the way I see it is if you are afraid of death and you attempt to climb that high of a wall, your going to give your max to ensure you don't die. The rope hindered his ability to climb because he knew that if he fell, he would be fine. Fearing death and climbing without the rope worked together to achieve his goal.

Wyatt Earp
07-20-2012, 05:04 PM
Did anyone else feel like the "court room" scenes were tailor made for the Joker?

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 05:07 PM
Did anyone else feel like the "court room" scenes were tailor made for the Joker?

Holy shit. Didn't think if that

Wyatt Earp
07-20-2012, 05:18 PM
Holy shit. Didn't think if that

Yeah to me Dr. Crane felt out of place as the judge.

Tribal Warfare
07-20-2012, 05:34 PM
Did anyone else feel like the "court room" scenes were tailor made for the Joker?

yep

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Yeah to me Dr. Crane felt out of place as the judge.

It kinda worked, as I was used to seeing him in court, but now that you mention it, it would be better suited with joker up there.

Deberg_1990
07-20-2012, 06:57 PM
I cant decide whether i thought banes voice was comical or creepy, but it did have a sort of jolliness in it that was unnerving. I know i couldnt understand a 3rd of what he said.

Tom hardy is big as ****.

heh, honestly Banes voice might be my only complaint about this flick. It was too over-amplified, obviously created Post filming and not on set. Too fakey sounding. Then he had a few corny lines i didnt like...

"Oh what a nice voice" At the football game. :facepalm:



But loved the movie otherwise. Just brilliant stuff. Nolan is on a whole other level with these films. No other comic book film comes close IMO.

Deberg_1990
07-20-2012, 07:01 PM
BTW, anyone catch the "Man of Steel" trailer? It was ok, but i was disappointed because it wasnt the longer one shown at Comic Con. It really didnt reveal much.

Silock
07-20-2012, 07:52 PM
heh, honestly Banes voice might be my only complaint about this flick. It was too over-amplified, obviously created Post filming and not on set. Too fakey sounding. Then he had a few corny lines i didnt like...

"Oh what a nice voice" At the football game. :facepalm:



But loved the movie otherwise. Just brilliant stuff. Nolan is on a whole other level with these films. No other comic book film comes close IMO.

They redid it because people were having a hard time understanding him and hearing the lines. It was originally far more muffled.

Tribal Warfare
07-20-2012, 08:05 PM
BTW, anyone catch the "Man of Steel" trailer? It was ok, but i was disappointed because it wasnt the longer one shown at Comic Con. It really didnt reveal much.

It showed Cavil walking with a scruffy beard, with a Russell Crowe voiceover... Then Supes breaking the speed of sound through the clouds.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 08:12 PM
BTW, anyone catch the "Man of Steel" trailer? It was ok, but i was disappointed because it wasnt the longer one shown at Comic Con. It really didnt reveal much.

I didn't realize Christopher Nolan was doing the Man of Steel. Can't wait for this one.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 08:25 PM
I didn't realize Christopher Nolan was doing the Man of Steel. Can't wait for this one.

He's only producing it. Zack Snyder is directing.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:06 PM
My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.
I think one big thing to consider here is that Bruce wasn't learning how to conquer his fear of death. He'd already done that.

He was learning how important fear is. The issue is he needed the fear back. I think that plays pretty heavily into his escape. Perhaps not so heavily into defeating Bane, I'll grant you. But I don't think it was entirely pointless or inconsequential.

The movie, to me, seemed to be like Batman Begins in reverse. The whole second half was more about Bruce vs himself than Batman vs Bane. Not arguing that as a strength or a weakness, just making an observation.

I'm fine with Bane being muscle and less brains. And in the end Batman still wasn't going to be able to defeat Bane on his own. But, again, I'm not sure that's what it was about.

And the Breaking Bad crack was just that. It was a crack. Me making fun of myself more than anything. Your comment sounded similar to some of mine re: that show. And I don't think it's worlds apart, frankly. We've seen characters on BB acting completely out of character for the sake of plot, and sometimes, even plot "twists."

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:09 PM
Did anyone else feel like the "court room" scenes were tailor made for the Joker?
Yes and no.

I had that same thought. And it would have been funny. But Joker was so much about chaos and anarchy that having him as a judge dolling out sentences in an "orderly" court would have felt really false, to me.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:11 PM
He's only producing it. Zack Snyder is directing.
Is he even producing? I thought he was just "grandfathering" it. Whatever that means.

I think if Nolan has a producer credit on the film, it's token.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 09:13 PM
OK, I think I misheard some of the dialogue in the prison scenes then.

So what does re-gaining fear mean for Bruce? How was that relevant to Bruce saving Gotham? What is there to justify the prison even existing in the movie?

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:14 PM
Oh. But...that doesn't jibe with the scene that I saw last night. Unless I misheard some key bit of dialogue. Because it seems like you'd wear that rope because you were afraid of dying (from a slip of the foot or from not making that leap. Because you, in that prison, will have seen many people try and fail, and so you'll want a safety precaution).

Bruce even says in the prison how he's afraid of x, y, and z. That was before he learned the stuff that allowed him to get out of the pit.
As I recall, the doctor comments on Bruce's fear of death. He says he isn't afraid of death, and the doctor tells him that's why he fails.

The rope eliminates the fear of death. If you don't make the jump, you know you're going to be fine.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 09:15 PM
Yes and no.

I had that same thought. And it would have been funny. But Joker was so much about chaos and anarchy that having him as a judge dolling out sentences in an "orderly" court would have felt really false, to me.
I agree with this. The false choice nature of the exile-or-death sentencing was Jokeresque, but the whole ideological force behind the "Occupy Gotham" movement was not Joker's style. I think he'd have been trying to expose the League of Shadows' self-righteousness, if anything.



I think if Nolan has a producer credit on the film, it's token.

That's how I'm treating it. As advertisement, basically.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:18 PM
OK, I think I misheard some of the dialogue in the prison scenes then.

So what does re-gaining fear mean for Bruce? How was that relevant to Bruce saving Gotham? What is there to justify the prison even existing in the movie?
Well, I think, he's able to fight Bane harder. The doctor tells Bruce that the reason Bane is so powerful and fights so hard is that he's fighting through the fear. Bruce has to learn to do that.

I think it also helps justify Bruce's decision to escape death at the end. Bruce doesn't want to die. We all know Batman won't die. He'll live on as a symbol. Even before we're 100% sure about Robin John Blake becoming Batman 2.0, we know Batman will live on.

For me, it worked thematically. What bothered me about it was the cramming down our throats that the auto-pilot didn't work. Why did Batman lie about it at the end? To mislead the AUDIENCE. That's a foul as far as I'm concerned. If Catwoman would have just said, "what's the plan fly out, and eject..." and Batman hadn't answered and just given a look it would have meant more. Because the audience was already tracking that plot point. Batman's lie made his escaping death cheaper, to me.

I still liked it, but it was cheapened a bit.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 09:21 PM
As I recall, the doctor comments on Bruce's fear of death. He says he isn't afraid of death, and the doctor tells him that's why he fails.

The rope eliminates the fear of death. If you don't make the jump, you know you're going to be fine.

Ah, I see how I was getting that twisted. To my mind, you want the safety rope because you're afraid to die. The rope means you won't. Going sans rope to me means you accept the consequences of failure -- it's a brave, less-fearful thing to me.

At any rate, I don't know what that lesson imparts to Bruce or to the film.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 09:23 PM
One of the major themes of the movie, obviously, is hiding. So much of it is about exile. Learning not to run and hide (from feelings, the past, enemies, fear, truth, etc) is a big lesson for almost every character in the film.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 09:24 PM
Well, I think, he's able to fight Bane harder. The doctor tells Bruce that the reason Bane is so powerful and fights so hard is that he's fighting through the fear. Bruce has to learn to do that.

I think it also helps justify Bruce's decision to escape death at the end. Bruce doesn't want to die. We all know Batman won't die. He'll live on as a symbol. Even before we're 100% sure about Robin John Blake becoming Batman 2.0, we know Batman will live on.

For me, it worked thematically. What bothered me about it was the cramming down our throats that the auto-pilot didn't work. Why did Batman lie about it at the end? To mislead the AUDIENCE. That's a foul as far as I'm concerned. If Catwoman would have just said, "what's the plan fly out, and eject..." and Batman hadn't answered and just given a look it would have meant more. Because the audience was already tracking that plot point. Batman's lie made his escaping death cheaper, to me.

I still liked it, but it was cheapened a bit.

I agree that it was cheapened. Just in service to the plot twist.

Even if Bruce was unafraid to die, even if he never learned a lesson about fear, I'm 100% sure that if he could eject out of the plane safely and not die in a nuclear explosion then he would.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 09:32 PM
OK, I think I misheard some of the dialogue in the prison scenes then.

So what does re-gaining fear mean for Bruce? How was that relevant to Bruce saving Gotham? What is there to justify the prison even existing in the movie?

Regaining fear in the end humanized him and made him able to return to life as Bruce Wayne. The prison scene is vital to the story to introduce the main bad guy, Talia al ghul.

Reaper16
07-20-2012, 09:38 PM
Damnit, I'm gonna' have to see this again, I think.

Buck
07-20-2012, 09:45 PM
1. Fuck David Letterman
2. It was really good.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 09:56 PM
1. **** David Letterman
2. It was really good.

Lol I was thinking that toward the end of the movie too

listopencil
07-20-2012, 09:59 PM
I would say that Bruce Wayne had to find a reason to live again. The entire movie, from that standpoint, was building up to Bruce Wayne's decision to accept life over death. This was a story about the character becoming human again. The rope was about letting go of whatever is holding you back so that you can move on to the next step in your life. Bruce Wayne needed to do something like that before he could stop being Batman.

Batman was always going to live on. With or without Robin taking over, the symbol would live on forever. But the only way for Batman to be effective was for the legend to be handed over to someone else. I like the idea of "Batman" and "Catwoman" retiring together. Selina Kyle saved him. Quite a while ago I posted that Catwoman is a great villain if handled correctly. She needed to be that crazy chick that makes you go, "Fuck being a superhero. I'm with her." I don't know if it would have worked if she had been as crazy as I envisioned but it worked with her as his outlet to a more normal life.

Red Brooklyn
07-20-2012, 10:25 PM
Regaining fear in the end humanized him and made him able to return to life as Bruce Wayne. The prison scene is vital to the story to introduce the main bad guy, Talia al ghul.
This. Yes.

Buck
07-20-2012, 10:53 PM
I went and saw this at the only IMAX theater in San Diego and when I got out there were news vans everywhere in the parking lot.

Also the ushers checked the emergency exits about every 10 min through the movie.

Really weird.

mdchiefsfan
07-20-2012, 11:44 PM
I went and saw this at the only IMAX theater in San Diego and when I got out there were news vans everywhere in the parking lot.

Also the ushers checked the emergency exits about every 10 min through the movie.

Really weird.

Possible new security proceedures after the shootings?

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 12:47 AM
Was that the bat signal at the end? Does that mean he's still gonna be Batman? Will there be a Batman and Robin movie now?

Silock
07-21-2012, 12:56 AM
I didn't see it so much as preparing the way for a new movie, but the idea that "Batman" will live on. One of the themes of these movies was Batman giving the city hope so that someone else would step up. I think he hoped it would be the police or Harvey Dent or ordinary citizens, but at least SOMEONE else was going to come to the aid of the city when it needed it in the future.

Sannyasi
07-21-2012, 01:01 AM
Didn't like this movie at all. Didn't care about Catwoman, didn't care about Robin. Bane was boring, the romance was uninteresting. Every bit of the first half of the movie was written to service a plot that wasn't that good to begin with. Batman spends so much of the movie down a hole that I really need to come to care about these other characters, and to learn about who these people are. But there were so few character moments in the film, instead it was all this neat and tidy, "Now let's show the bat tanks, that's going to be important" bullshit.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 01:21 AM
I haven't seen it since it first came out, but I don't recall the actress that plays Talia Al Ghul having that rack in Inception.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 02:02 AM
FYI Bale did change his tune mentioning last month that he'd be open to doing another Batman movie with Nolan if he wanted to. After this one it'd be a shame not to do a Batman and Robin film. The fans will be salivating for it. The chemistry between Bale and JGL is too good to pass up.

Silock
07-21-2012, 02:10 AM
I doubt it will happen. Nolan's Batman is too old and broken. The only way it could be pulled off is the "Batman Beyond" kind of thing, where an old Bruce Wayne helps a younger man become Batman/Robin. I think that would suck, TBH.

It should be left where it is. It began and ended perfectly and should be left as the neat package it is.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 02:17 AM
I doubt it will happen. Nolan's Batman is too old and broken. The only way it could be pulled off is the "Batman Beyond" kind of thing, where an old Bruce Wayne helps a younger man become Batman/Robin. I think that would suck, TBH.

It should be left where it is. It began and ended perfectly and should be left as the neat package it is.

I wouldn't mind either way I'm just saying that after this one the fans will be demanding more. A Batman and Robin movie would be sick but I'd be fine without it. But man...how awesome would that be?

Silock
07-21-2012, 02:19 AM
There will definitely be more Batman flicks, but it will be hard for anyone to ever top or equal these. Which is awesome, but kinda sad, too.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 02:24 AM
There will definitely be more Batman flicks, but it will be hard for anyone to ever top or equal these. Which is awesome, but kinda sad, too.

True that. A fourth one with Batman and Robin (with Bale and JGL) is almost too good to pass up. It'd be like taking candy from a baby.

Silock
07-21-2012, 02:25 AM
I'd see it, just because I'm a sucker for comic book flicks. But I know it wouldn't be as good as I'd want it to be.

big nasty kcnut
07-21-2012, 08:33 AM
robin john blake sound like robin tim drake.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 08:58 AM
Was that the bat signal at the end? Does that mean he's still gonna be Batman? Will there be a Batman and Robin movie now?

One thing that they could be doing is relieving Bale from his role (since he said he would only do Batman if Nolan wrote another film) and prepping for the next Batman for a potential Justice League movie, in the event they decide to go forward with it. I can only hope.

58kcfan89
07-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Saw this last night & freaking loved it. It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was a damn good movie & I'll definitely be seeing it again.

I don't know how well it'd go over, and I'm not even that big of a Robin fan in general, but I could see them trying to make a Robin movie with Batman/Bale having a cameo, and I can see myself watching it. As awesome as it'd be to see Bale back, it wouldn't make much sense considering he retired & passed the torch to JGL.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 10:36 AM
Saw this last night & freaking loved it. It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was a damn good movie & I'll definitely be seeing it again.

I don't know how well it'd go over, and I'm not even that big of a Robin fan in general, but I could see them trying to make a Robin movie with Batman/Bale having a cameo, and I can see myself watching it. As awesome as it'd be to see Bale back, it wouldn't make much sense considering he retired & passed the torch to JGL.

It depends on what you made out of the movie and the ending. I made it to be that Batman could come back when the city needs him again (hence the bat signal) and that he would no longer have to do it alone with JGL becoming Robin. To me, that's ANOTHER huge cash cow. It would be insane to pass that up if you're Nolan. You could end it after the fourth one as well knowing that Gotham is safe knowing they have Batman and Robin. That's why the ending of TDKR was so perfect. It could either be translated as the end of Bale, or a possible Batman and Robin film. It was flexible. He did it on purpose IMO because he's not entirely sure this is the final film. It wasn't a definite ending. He's teasing the fans. How could you blame him? Money talks and the momentum is unstoppable.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 11:45 AM
Was that the bat signal at the end? Does that mean he's still gonna be Batman? Will there be a Batman and Robin movie now?

I think the bat signal at the end can be interpreted one of two ways:

Batman's personal message to Gordon that he's still alive.

A message to criminals> Remember in TDK when gordon was on the roof with the other cop and made a comment about using the signal as a deterrent even if he never sees Batman. Use of the signal as a symbol to criminals to second guess if he's out there.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 11:49 AM
One place I have to nitpick - and I'm surprised that a Nolan film had this big of a continuity issue in it:

The Wall Street scene. Bane asks how long before the transaction goes through and is told either 8-9 minutes. (Don't recall exactly) Bane, his crew, and the hostages come barreling out of the SE on motorbikes while it is still daylight.

Somehow during the chase - in a less than 8 minute span - it's nighttime in Gotham.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Was I the only one that thought the movie was going to abruptly end when Alfred looked up at the cafe?

I think a Sopranos-like ending would have been incredible.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 12:14 PM
I think the bat signal at the end can be interpreted one of two ways:

Batman's personal message to Gordon that he's still alive.

A message to criminals> Remember in TDK when gordon was on the roof with the other cop and made a comment about using the signal as a deterrent even if he never sees Batman. Use of the signal as a symbol to criminals to second guess if he's out there.

Or that Batman would come if needed (as Blake of course, but Batman none-the-less)

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Was I the only one that thought the movie was going to abruptly end when Alfred looked up at the cafe?

I think a Sopranos-like ending would have been incredible.

Or even an Inception type of ending, leaving the top spinning. That would've been cruel.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 12:35 PM
Or even an Inception type of ending, leaving the top spinning. That would've been cruel.

Actually, I think the ending was somewhat Inception-like.

I heard the couple next to us semi-arguing if the final cafe scene was a dream or reality.

Seeing as how Selina was wearing the pearls, (totem?) I think it's clear it was real. Plus, Alfred isn't aware of the relationship between Wayne and Selina. If it were a dream, Alfred would likely imagine Bruce sitting there with Rachel.

Deberg_1990
07-21-2012, 01:08 PM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.

Red Brooklyn
07-21-2012, 01:54 PM
Was I the only one that thought the movie was going to abruptly end when Alfred looked up at the cafe?

I think a Sopranos-like ending would have been incredible.
No. I was thinking the same thing and I had a grin a mile wide on my face. Then they showed Bruce & Selina and I hate a second of "oh man" but then the theater erupted in cheers and applause. Which was awesome. Great moment.

Red Brooklyn
07-21-2012, 01:55 PM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.
And he never did.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-21-2012, 02:01 PM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.

Yep. And he said he's done with this franchise. I doubt it. Bale also said months ago that he's done, but recently stated if Nolan is on board he'd be open to doing a fourth. Money talks. The ending left room for a lot of ways they could go for another movie if he decides to.

Deberg_1990
07-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Wouldnt surprise me if Nolan didnt come back. Hes probably wanting to move on and hes more of an "Artist" than the typical comic book director.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 02:07 PM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.

Technically, you never saw Robin. Semantics I know, but when ever I bring up the point you just made that is the response I get. Thought I would share.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 02:10 PM
No. I was thinking the same thing and I had a grin a mile wide on my face. Then they showed Bruce & Selina and I hate a second of "oh man" but then the theater erupted in cheers and applause. Which was awesome. Great moment.

My experience was a bit different. Saw it in a 21+ theater with only 35 seats. There was literally no response from the audience at any point in the film. Hell, no one even moved once the credits started rolling.

My wife and I were the first to get up and walk out, and the looks of people trying to process what they just saw was priceless.

My wife asked me what I thought of it as we walked to the car, and I couldn't even respond. So many powerful, emotional scenes.

Alfred's speech to Bruce before he resigns/reveal of Rachel's letter.
The first fight between Batman/Bane.
The climb from the pit.
Talia's reveal - though if you followed the comics you probably realized it before it happened.
When Gordon realizes Bruce is Batman. "Heroes put their jackets around the shoulders of scared kids."
When Blake throws his badge off the bridge.

And pretty much anything that happened the last 10 minutes.

Seeing it again tonight in 15/70 IMAX. Thinking it's going to be even better the 2nd time around.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 02:15 PM
My experience was a bit different. Saw it in a 21+ theater with only 35 seats. There was literally no response from the audience at any point in the film. Hell, no one even moved once the credits started rolling.

My wife and I were the first to get up and walk out, and the looks of people trying to process what they just saw was priceless.

My wife asked me what I thought of it as we walked to the car, and I couldn't even respond. So many powerful, emotional scenes.

Seeing it again tonight in 15/70 IMAX. Thinking it's going to be even better the 2nd time around.

There was a roar of applause in the theater I went to. But I felt that exact same thing, I couldn't even discuss what I enjoyed about the movie. I walked out with a headache and thought to myself, this is what it feels like to have your mind blown.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 02:21 PM
There was a roar of applause in the theater I went to. But I felt that exact same thing, I couldn't even discuss what I enjoyed about the movie. I walked out with a headache and thought to myself, this is what it feels like to have your mind blown.

Yep.

As a friend of mine eloquently posted on FB last night, "Christopher Nolan just fucked my mind's vagina so hard I'm going to be sore for weeks".

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 02:22 PM
Yep.

As a friend of mine eloquently posted on FB last night, "Christopher Nolan just ****ed my mind's vagina so hard I'm going to be sore for weeks".

ROFL

Raiderhader
07-21-2012, 02:37 PM
My experience was a bit different. Saw it in a 21+ theater with only 35 seats. There was literally no response from the audience at any point in the film. Hell, no one even moved once the credits started rolling.

My wife and I were the first to get up and walk out, and the looks of people trying to process what they just saw was priceless.

My wife asked me what I thought of it as we walked to the car, and I couldn't even respond. So many powerful, emotional scenes.

Alfred's speech to Bruce before he resigns/reveal of Rachel's letter.
The first fight between Batman/Bane.
The climb from the pit.
Talia's reveal - though if you followed the comics you probably realized it before it happened.
When Blake throws his badge off the bridge.

And pretty much anything that happened the last 10 minutes.

Seeing it again tonight in 15/70 IMAX. Thinking it's going to be even better the 2nd time around.


I am not really sure the entire experience has sunk in on me yet. I am no where near being able to rank it in the trilogy because I'm not sure I have fully grasped what I watched last night.

JD10367
07-21-2012, 03:08 PM
I think Nolan threw in the "You should use your full name... Robin" as just a bonus to fans. This film played fast-and-loose with the Batman canon. "Robin" is fully grown and a police officer, sharing only an orphan background with Wayne/Grayson (no silly carnival/acrobat crappola). The ending simply affirms, if this is the end of the road for Nolan/Bale, that the idea of Batman will live on (hence the rebuilt Batsignal telling Gordon that Wayne's alive, providing a beacon to scare criminals, AND summon the possible "new" Batman). Does JGL become Batman #2? Does he become Robin? Does he bypass Robin and immediately become Nightwing? Many possibilities.

As for an "Inception"-like ending, it's pretty clear that it's real. Wayne fixed the autopilot six months ago. The pearls are missing. The whole point of Clean Slate is the ability to erase your past (which both Catwoman and Batman wanted to do, and did do). I would like to think that, in the future of this version of the Batman word, Batman stays retired and enjoys living again while JGL takes up the job of protecting the city. I mean, he'd already been retired for 8 years, and his body clearly isn't holding up well despite from coming back from the back injury inflicted by Bane.

Also, for those unhappy with the speed of that recovery, note that for time-compression purposes they didn't actually say his back was broken, but that he ultimately had a protruding vertebrae (hence the reason he could rehab in 5 months).

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 03:11 PM
I think Nolan threw in the "You should use your full name... Robin" as just a bonus to fans. This film played fast-and-loose with the Batman canon. "Robin" is fully grown and a police officer, sharing only an orphan background with Wayne/Grayson (no silly carnival/acrobat crappola). The ending simply affirms, if this is the end of the road for Nolan/Bale, that the idea of Batman will live on (hence the rebuilt Batsignal telling Gordon that Wayne's alive, providing a beacon to scare criminals, AND summon the possible "new" Batman). Does JGL become Batman #2? Does he become Robin? Does he bypass Robin and immediately become Nightwing? Many possibilities.

As for an "Inception"-like ending, it's pretty clear that it's real. Wayne fixed the autopilot six months ago. The pearls are missing. The whole point of Clean Slate is the ability to erase your past (which both Catwoman and Batman wanted to do, and did do). I would like to think that, in the future of this version of the Batman word, Batman stays retired and enjoys living again while JGL takes up the job of protecting the city. I mean, he'd already been retired for 8 years, and his body clearly isn't holding up well despite from coming back from the back injury inflicted by Bane.

Also, for those unhappy with the speed of that recovery, note that for time-compression purposes they didn't actually say his back was broken, but that he ultimately had a protruding vertebrae (hence the reason he could rehab in 5 months).

Agreed. Also, I bet people aren't thrilled with how

Batman was somehow able to ditch the Batwing and avoid the blast.

Though I think it's pretty obvious if you paid attention during the movie.

Rams Fan
07-21-2012, 03:24 PM
Agreed. Also, I bet people aren't thrilled with how

Batman was somehow able to ditch the Batwing and avoid the blast.

Though I think it's pretty obvious if you paid attention during the movie.

I don't understand why they wouldn't be okay with him escaping the explosion, though.

Like you said, it was mentioned during the movie.

Barret
07-21-2012, 03:37 PM
I dont understand 1 thing. If Robin is to take over at the end, where is he going to get the funding for "toys" and vehicles and all that stuff? Bruce Wayne sold off the assets in the Mansion to cover expenses that had occurred and then donated the Mansion to be a boys home.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't understand why they wouldn't be okay with him escaping the explosion, though.

Like you said, it was mentioned during the movie.

No, not the auto-pilot bug being fixed.

I'm guessing people are wondering how he ejected from the Batwing and still avoided the blast. Unless you were really paying attention, you'd wonder how he was in the cockpit over the ocean with less than 5 seconds to spare and still escaped the nuke blast.

Micjones
07-21-2012, 03:55 PM
No, not the auto-pilot bug being fixed.

I'm guessing people are wondering how he ejected from the Batwing and still avoided the blast. Unless you were really paying attention, you'd wonder how he was in the cockpit over the ocean with less than 5 seconds to spare and still escaped the nuke blast.

I guess I missed it too then. Please enlighten me.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 03:58 PM
For Rams Fan, or anyone else wondering WTF I'm talking about in the previous post - my theory before I leave for a 7:00 showing:

There were multiple Batwings, just like there were multiple Tumblers. If you remember the scene in which Fox says, "it (Batwing) also comes in black" the Batwing at Wayne Enterprises is grey.

I'll confirm tonight, but I remember the Batwing flying the nuke out to sea was black.

Remember while on the bridge, and Blake sees an explosion and says, "it's beginning"? I think that's when Batman makes the switch to an alternate Batwing (and there must be at least three if my theory is true, one destroyed in the blast, one that reveals the auto-pilot bug was patched and the one that I'm theorizing Batman used to get away.

I believe that the view of the Batwing carrying the nuke out to sea is from the viewpoint of Bruce, in the other Batwing.

Make sense? Or complete bullshit?

Micjones
07-21-2012, 04:03 PM
For Rams Fan, or anyone else wondering WTF I'm talking about in the previous post - my theory before I leave for a 7:00 showing:

There were multiple Batwings, just like there were multiple Tumblers. If you remember the scene in which Fox says, "it (Batwing) also comes in black" the Batwing at Wayne Enterprises is grey.

I'll confirm tonight, but I remember the Batwing flying the nuke out to sea was black.

Remember while on the bridge, and Blake sees an explosion and says, "it's beginning"? I think that's when Batman makes the switch to an alternate Batwing (and there must be at least three if my theory is true, one destroyed in the blast, one that reveals the auto-pilot bug was patched and the one that I'm theorizing Batman used to get away.

I believe that the view of the Batwing carrying the nuke out to sea is from the viewpoint of Bruce, in the other Batwing.

Make sense? Or complete bullshit?

Possible, but improbable.

Wasn't he down to just 2 minutes when he decided to carry it out to the bay in the first place? How could he have had time to switch? And if there were two Batwings in flight...Wouldn't Blake or someone else have noticed? Seems to me that the view of the Batwing before it exploded was Blake's.

Here's my question...

Why are we using spoiler tags when the title suggests the thread is full of them?

Rams Fan
07-21-2012, 04:04 PM
No, not the auto-pilot bug being fixed.

I'm guessing people are wondering how he ejected from the Batwing and still avoided the blast. Unless you were really paying attention, you'd wonder how he was in the cockpit over the ocean with less than 5 seconds to spare and still escaped the nuke blast.

Ah, then yeah, I guess I missed that part.

I've already seen it twice. I don't think I caught that in either showing.

Rams Fan
07-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Anyone else find it interesting that Bane was in an outfit similar to that of the Red Hood?

Still wondering if anyone thought this?

Raiderhader
07-21-2012, 04:46 PM
For Rams Fan, or anyone else wondering WTF I'm talking about in the previous post - my theory before I leave for a 7:00 showing:

There were multiple Batwings, just like there were multiple Tumblers. If you remember the scene in which Fox says, "it (Batwing) also comes in black" the Batwing at Wayne Enterprises is grey.

I'll confirm tonight, but I remember the Batwing flying the nuke out to sea was black.

Remember while on the bridge, and Blake sees an explosion and says, "it's beginning"? I think that's when Batman makes the switch to an alternate Batwing (and there must be at least three if my theory is true, one destroyed in the blast, one that reveals the auto-pilot bug was patched and the one that I'm theorizing Batman used to get away.

I believe that the view of the Batwing carrying the nuke out to sea is from the viewpoint of Bruce, in the other Batwing.

Make sense? Or complete bullshit?


I think this is all being over thought. Why not just a disconnect button for the rope in the cockpit?

JD10367
07-21-2012, 06:12 PM
The way the scene is edited, we can extrapolate "extra time" in there. They show Batman at the controls, then they show a long-distant shot,then they show the timer at 0:05. That doesn't necessarily mean he was at the controls at 0:07. Given the speed of the Batplane, it's possible he could've been at the edge of the blast radius.

Or maybe his buddy Superman swooped in and grabbed him, I dunno. :shrug:

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 06:31 PM
The way the scene is edited, we can extrapolate "extra time" in there. They show Batman at the controls, then they show a long-distant shot,then they show the timer at 0:05. That doesn't necessarily mean he was at the controls at 0:07. Given the speed of the Batplane, it's possible he could've been at the edge of the blast radius.

Or maybe his buddy Superman swooped in and grabbed him, I dunno. :shrug:

It also doesn't mean he was necessarily piloting the Batwing that as carrying the nuke. Seeing it again in 30 minutes, will pay better attention to that scene.

tk13
07-21-2012, 06:47 PM
Isn't it possible he just dropped the thing in the water? The Batwing outran missiles earlier in the film... it had speed. I'd have to watch that scene again.

JD10367
07-21-2012, 07:31 PM
Isn't it possible he just dropped the thing in the water? The Batwing outran missiles earlier in the film... it had speed. I'd have to watch that scene again.

When they show the counter at 0:05 there is no indication that it's under water. They state in the film that the blast radius is six miles. Hence, from bomb detonation point, you'd have to be three miles away. To fly three miles in one minute you'd have to be moving at 180MPH. When you add it all up, it seems like the Batplane is toast.

JD10367
07-21-2012, 07:34 PM
One thing not mentioned: the implication that Catwoman is bisexual. She has a little lackey girlfriend who shows up: 1) in the fingerprint scene as her little helper, 2) in the "she stole my wallet" scene as Catwoman's apparent low-level partner and probable roommate, 3) when Wayne shows up at the house she's there again ("he's not a mark"), and 4) when Selina Kyle is looking through the remnants of someone's home, and her little girlfriend shows up and puts her head on her back and hugs her from behind. Hawt. (Especially since Kyle is clearly the dom and probably is into S&M with her little submissive.)

JD10367
07-21-2012, 07:35 PM
But notice how quickly Kyle dumps the little tart to run off to Europe. Cold hearted bitch. Although maybe she took her with her; Bruce deserves a threesome.

Deberg_1990
07-21-2012, 09:05 PM
One thing not mentioned: the implication that Catwoman is bisexual. She has a little lackey girlfriend who shows up: 1) in the fingerprint scene as her little helper, 2) in the "she stole my wallet" scene as Catwoman's apparent low-level partner and probable roommate, 3) when Wayne shows up at the house she's there again ("he's not a mark"), and 4) when Selina Kyle is looking through the remnants of someone's home, and her little girlfriend shows up and puts her head on her back and hugs her from behind. Hawt. (Especially since Kyle is clearly the dom and probably is into S&M with her little submissive.)

Yea, I caught all that too,.but they just dropped it at the end.
Posted via Mobile Device

luv
07-21-2012, 09:23 PM
Watching the first two tonight in preparation. Don't know when I'll see this one, but I'll be ready.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

Brock
07-21-2012, 09:43 PM
One thing not mentioned: the implication that Catwoman is bisexual. She has a little lackey girlfriend who shows up: 1) in the fingerprint scene as her little helper, 2) in the "she stole my wallet" scene as Catwoman's apparent low-level partner and probable roommate, 3) when Wayne shows up at the house she's there again ("he's not a mark"), and 4) when Selina Kyle is looking through the remnants of someone's home, and her little girlfriend shows up and puts her head on her back and hugs her from behind. Hawt. (Especially since Kyle is clearly the dom and probably is into S&M with her little submissive.)

It's derived from the Frank Miller Year One series.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 10:08 PM
One thing not mentioned: the implication that Catwoman is bisexual. She has a little lackey girlfriend who shows up: 1) in the fingerprint scene as her little helper, 2) in the "she stole my wallet" scene as Catwoman's apparent low-level partner and probable roommate, 3) when Wayne shows up at the house she's there again ("he's not a mark"), and 4) when Selina Kyle is looking through the remnants of someone's home, and her little girlfriend shows up and puts her head on her back and hugs her from behind. Hawt. (Especially since Kyle is clearly the dom and probably is into S&M with her little submissive.)

I took that as her bring manipulative and getting others to do what she wishes. You've seen it more than me so I respect your views, I am about to see it on monday again, but I see no reasons for those implications.

JD10367
07-21-2012, 10:11 PM
So is it just me, or does Bane without his mask look like Rob Gronkowski?

mikeyis4dcats.
07-21-2012, 10:15 PM
Was that the bat signal at the end? Does that mean he's still gonna be Batman? Will there be a Batman and Robin movie now?

my take is that JGL's "Robin" will actually e the next Batman. Nolan was notoriously not a fan of Robin. With Wayne sprucing up the bat signal and all the talk about Batman being anonymous it totally points to him intending Batman to live on.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-21-2012, 10:19 PM
heh, whats funny is, i believe Nolan has gone on record before and said that he would never bring in Robin into his version of Batman.

who says he did? I don't think he did.

mdchiefsfan
07-21-2012, 10:28 PM
my take is that JGL's "Robin" will actually e the next Batman. Nolan was notoriously not a fan of Robin. With Wayne sprucing up the bat signal and all the talk about Batman being anonymous it totally points to him intending Batman to live on.

One thing I will say, at risk of sounding dorky, is that this movie followed the comic book Knightfall, just like Batman Begins followed Batman: Year one and Dark Knight followed Killing Joke. After Knightfall Bruce Wayne retires and Tim Drake (John Blake) takes the guarding of Gotham as Robin on his own. They followed the comics pretty well in this story.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Knightfall#section_2

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 10:52 PM
When they show the counter at 0:05 there is no indication that it's under water. They state in the film that the blast radius is six miles. Hence, from bomb detonation point, you'd have to be three miles away. To fly three miles in one minute you'd have to be moving at 180MPH. When you add it all up, it seems like the Batplane is toast.

Yep. I made a point to pay close attention during my second viewing tonight.

He couldn't have dropped it in the bay, as JD just pointed out.

So that leaves two options:

Either he bailed out at some point over the water, and let auto-pilot take over. Unlikely he'd survive considering it's winter-time, the rivers were iced over, the water in the bay would be freezing.

Or, he bailed just after struggling to gain enough altitude to clear that building (was the Bat Lucious took the EMP out of on top of this building?) with the explosion (Blake's "it's starting" comment on bridge") creating a diversion for the switch?

Again, maybe I'm off base here, but I really think there are three Bats.

1.) After the Wall Street scene, Bruce comes back to Wayne Manor in a Bat, and parks it in the cave.

2.) The next time we see a Bat, it's parked on the roof of a building - the Bat Fox takes the EMP out of.

3.) There is a gray, unpainted Bat in Applied Sciences in the beginning of the movie, and this appears to be the same Bat that techs are looking at with Fox at the end - they claim the auto-pilot software was patched 6 months ago.

All three could have been in play. We know at least two of them were.

The only other thing I can think of if he didn't physically switch Bats is that he flew out to sea, and the cockpit itself broke into a smaller vehicle, much like the BatPod did when the Tumbler was incapacitated. He then flew off, letting the auto-pilot take over for what was left of the Bat.

You'd have to think someone would notice this though, which makes me think he bailed earlier, potentially under the cover of that exploding building.

scorpio
07-21-2012, 10:57 PM
Apparently John Blake does appear in the comics, however briefly:

http://gotchamovies.com/ul/photos/movie/the-dark-knight-rises/33707d62593e297c09c2da8a64b219cc-sc.jpg

Jawshco
07-21-2012, 10:59 PM
One thing I will say, at risk of sounding dorky, is that this movie followed the comic book Knightfall, just like Batman Begins followed Batman: Year one and Dark Knight followed Killing Joke. After Knightfall Bruce Wayne retires and Tim Drake (John Blake) takes the guarding of Gotham as Robin on his own. They followed the comics pretty well in this story.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Knightfall#section_2

Well... Tim Drake wasn't alone. Jean Paul Valley (Aka Azrael) becomes a twisted Batman who abandons Robin. Then Dick Grayson comes in at the end to help fight against the new Batman with Robin and the healed Bruce doesn't retire. He still tries to be heroic even in a wheelchair. When he fails to save Tim's parents he begins training with Shiva (which is my favorite part of Knightfall).

I actually think TDKR also takes inspiration from the No Man's Land series.

scorpio
07-21-2012, 11:08 PM
I like that Nolan draws from a lot of the best mythos of the comics but ultimately creates his own continuity. TDKR has a lot from Knightfall and The Dark Knight Returns, but isn't loyal to either. And it works.

I do wish they could have put more of Knightfall in there, like having to re-undergo the ninja training and take back the mantle, but it was already a pretty long movie. A nod to Azrael would have been cool.

tk13
07-21-2012, 11:24 PM
We're probably over thinking it all a bit. Who says that Batwing can't go 180 mph? There are certainly plenty of aircraft that can go that fast. It was an advanced piece of technology though, so there's probably options we aren't even thinking about.

Reaper16
07-21-2012, 11:25 PM
It literally doesn't matter how Bruce escaped.

Jawshco
07-21-2012, 11:26 PM
It's derived from the Frank Miller Year One series.

Exactly, that's where the Holly Robinson begins. She's a prostitute that Selina rescues in year one, but is also used later in the regular continuity. Selina has a thing for protecting prostitutes, but I don't think she's bi-sexual per se. Holly is more like an adopted stray. However, it can't be denied that Catwoman is extremely sexual with bdsm tendacies. She also rooms with other women who serve as fences for her. None of them her girlfriend's though.

OnTheWarpath58
07-21-2012, 11:28 PM
It literally doesn't matter how Bruce escaped.

It literally doesn't matter that 5 months of the story was blown through in about 15 minutes of film time, either.

Gosh, this is easy.

Reaper16
07-21-2012, 11:30 PM
It literally doesn't matter that 5 months of the story was blown through in about 15 minutes of film time, either.


I agree.

Jawshco
07-21-2012, 11:46 PM
I like that Nolan draws from a lot of the best mythos of the comics but ultimately creates his own continuity. TDKR has a lot from Knightfall and The Dark Knight Returns, but isn't loyal to either. And it works.

I do wish they could have put more of Knightfall in there, like having to re-undergo the ninja training and take back the mantle, but it was already a pretty long movie. A nod to Azrael would have been cool.

Agreed, I loved the back breaking scene that was done so iconically in both media even though the movie's Bane is so completely different. It does work. The blown bridges and destruction of Gotham was very No Man's Land to me- so it's both a very well informed movie from the comics, but completely unique.

Definitely the best super hero movie series of all time. Still... I'd love a -more faithful to the comics- movie of Batman, which has never been done on film IMO. The animated movie Masks of the Phantasm was my favorite bat related film. I want a movie series where we can see Robin, so that death in the family and Under the Red Hood can be done. That would be awesome.

BWillie
07-22-2012, 12:01 AM
Literally nobody gives a shit how it follows the comic book, just as long as it makes a good movie.

Jawshco
07-22-2012, 12:15 AM
Literally nobody gives a shit how it follows the comic book, just as long as it makes a good movie.

Ha! Nobody is a name of an actual Batman villain. I think comparisons between movies and their source material will always matter to fans of the source material. That being said, even comic book publishers these days aren't showing a whole lot of reverence for their characters histories. DC rebooted everything with it's new 52. And it sounds like Marvel is about to do the same thing.

luv
07-22-2012, 12:21 AM
Literally nobody gives a shit how it follows the comic book, just as long as it makes a good movie.

Just because you've never read the comic book doesn't mean others haven't.

Jawshco
07-22-2012, 12:31 AM
Is JGL Grayson, Todd, or Drake? He's first Robin like Grayson, and is an orphan like Grayson and Todd. He's called a hothead- which is Jason Todd's main characteristic. Then he figures out who Batman is, which what Tim Drake did in the comics- who also happens to be Robin in the comics during the Knightfall and No Man's land series. So basically John Blake is all of them, but none of them- he's a familiar new character that tributes the other Robins.

Obviously 4th Robin, Stephanie Brown doesn't exist in this movie storyline (since the new 52 started she might not exist in the comics anymore either) , and since Talia was killed there's little chance that her and Bruce's son, Damian Wayne- the 5th Robin, will be born.

Speaking of Talia's death scene. That was the funniest death groan I've seen since Paul Reuben's death scene in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

tk13
07-22-2012, 12:35 AM
I really need to see it again... I have a hard time comparing this one to the other movies so soon. Still, I really think this might have been a better movie than The Dark Knight. Probably because it had more emotional impact. And Tom Hardy was great as Bane. Nolan made some great choices character wise... I wasn't 100% sold on Ledger as Joker or Hardy as Bane... but they were both tremendous villains.

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 12:36 AM
Just because you've never read the comic book doesn't mean others haven't.

I have no idea why you are in this thread if you haven't seen the movie

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 12:38 AM
I really need to see it again... I have a hard time comparing this one to the other movies so soon. Still, I really think this might have been a better movie than The Dark Knight. Probably because it had more emotional impact. And Tom Hardy was great as Bane. Nolan made some great choices character wise... I wasn't 100% sold on Ledger as Joker or Hardy as Bane... but they were both tremendous villains.

I enjoyed TDKR the best for sure of all 3, but they all tie together so greatly. Esp the way the 2nd movie ended transitioning into this one. The fall of batman was emotional seeing it on the screen and watching him come back was spectacular.

Deberg_1990
07-22-2012, 12:39 AM
They redid it because people were having a hard time understanding him and hearing the lines. It was originally far more muffled.

Oh yea, I know...but I still didn't like it much. It felt like it was spliced in from a a different movie at times. Just a weird artificially amped up sound.

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 12:50 AM
Oh yea, I know...but I still didn't like it much. It felt like it was spliced in from a a different movie at times. Just a weird artificially amped up sound.

Sometimes it was a little loud i agree but nothign that bothered me too much.

Jawshco
07-22-2012, 12:51 AM
Did anyone else notice how the actor who played, "Little Finger" in Game of Thrones- was playing another scheming crook at the beginning of this movie, and how the actor who plays the Dective Quinn on the show Dexter is playing another a-hole cop (the one who blew the bridge on Robin) in this movie. I thought that was a little odd.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 12:53 AM
I have no idea why you are in this thread if you haven't seen the movie

Lol I was wondering the same thing.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 01:21 AM
Did anyone else notice how the actor who played, "Little Finger" in Game of Thrones- was playing another scheming crook at the beginning of this movie, and how the actor who plays the Dective Quinn on the show Dexter is playing another a-hole cop (the one who blew the bridge on Robin) in this movie. I thought that was a little odd.

And the rookie-ish jittery cop who shot at him and apologized plays the same role on "Blue Bloods".

Chiefspants
07-22-2012, 01:27 AM
Honestly, for the first 90 minutes I was thinking that this was setting up to be something in the vain of Spiderman 3. There were a myriad of plot points that seemed to have no clear direction or purpose, and I was preparing for this to be the biggest letdown in recent memory.

However, my constructed notions of the movie were decimated the moment Miranda Tate revealed her true identity. In my honest opinion, it was a plot twist that matched the scale and surprise of the twist in the Sixth Sense.

I have never seen the last hour of a movie tie up every plot line so effortlessly, the feature's final act was cinematic perfection, and rewarded the faith I have in Nolan's productions.

Anne Hathaway's performance was the surprise of the movie for me, there were times when her performance was carrying the film for me, the range and scope she poured into the role was incredible and exceeded every expectation I held for her performance. Like Ledger before her, Anne's contributions should silence each and every one of her doubters.

For me, it was the absolutely perfect end to the trilogy.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 01:52 AM
When you tell me where the trigger is, then you have my permission to die.

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 01:57 AM
The score is simply amazing for this film as well...

Super anxious to go again

ThaVirus
07-22-2012, 02:19 AM
-Watching Batman get wrecked by Bane in the "breaking the bat" scene was extremely uncomfortable. I never felt that Bats was in over his head in either of the two prior films. He was so powerless against Bane in their first encounter; it was tough to watch.

-The Talia twist was great. I just recently played the Arkham City game so I knew Ra's had a daughter, not a son; but I still had no idea about the twist until she stuck him with the knife. I think I was just too overwhelmed with everything else, trying to take in as much as possible.

-How did you guys feel about the Bane backstory? I was expecting the mask to be some sort of vapor inhalation gadget but they went a different route. Being trained by the League of Shadows explains why he was able to go toe-to-toe with Bats, but that doesn't explain why he was so freakishly strong. In their final fight, right after Batman knocks his mask loose, Bane misses Bats and punches straight through a concrete pillar.

-Not to detract any credit from Bane because he did a great job, but during the entire time they sealed the city off I was thinking of how amazing it would have been if the Joker had been there. The whole plot seemed very No Man's Land-y and was the perfect setting for a Joker reappearance.

All in all, the film was great and an amazing end to an amazing trilogy. The third act was the stuff you have wet dreams about and the final 10 minutes or so really pushed it over the top. Loved every minute of the film!

A couple other things:
-Did anyone else catch the Killer Croc reference? JGL was talking about the sewers and mentioned something about seeing a giant alligator down there. I thought that was a cool nod.
-Speaking of JGL, that dude was killer. Great addition to the cast.
-The Bat wing! I want one.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:20 AM
-Watching Batman get wrecked by Bane in the "breaking the bat" scene was extremely uncomfortable. I never felt that Bats was in over his head in either of the two prior films. He was so powerless against Bane in their first encounter; it was tough to watch.

-The Talia twist was great. I just recently played the Arkham City game so I knew Ra's had a daughter, not a son; but I still had no idea about the twist until she stuck him with the knife. I think I was just too overwhelmed with everything else, trying to take in as much as possible.

-How did you guys feel about the Bane backstory? I was expecting the mask to be some sort of vapor inhalation gadget but they went a different route. Being trained by the League of Shadows explains why he was able to go toe-to-toe with Bats, but that doesn't explain why he was so freakishly strong. In their final fight, right after Batman knocks his mask loose, Bane misses Bats and punches straight through a concrete pillar.

-Not to detract any credit from Bane because he did a great job, but during the entire time they sealed the city off I was thinking of how amazing it would have been if the Joker had been there. The whole plot seemed very No Man's Land-y and was the perfect setting for a Joker reappearance.

All in all, the film was great and an amazing end to an amazing trilogy. The third act was the stuff you have wet dreams about and the final 10 minutes or so really pushed it over the top. Loved every minute of the film!

A couple other things:
-Did anyone else catch the Killer Croc reference? JGL was talking about the sewers and mentioned something about seeing a giant alligator down there. I thought that was a cool nod.
-Speaking of JGL, that dude was killer. Great addition to the cast.
-The Bat wing! I want one.

I liked it. They were setting up Talia's story by making it appear they were talking about Bane. When ever you take that approach, someone's story will be left out. As for the League of Shadows, that is how Bane was cast in the comics as well. I like the way they explained the mask with what little time they had to work with.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:24 AM
Oh yea, I know...but I still didn't like it much. It felt like it was spliced in from a a different movie at times. Just a weird artificially amped up sound.

The thing that I probably liked the most about Bane's voice had to be the hint of weakness in it. There is this touch of slight pain in his voice.. It's almost like Darth Vader and his labored breathing. It just makes you know that mask is needed and I really enjoyed that.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 09:23 AM
Did anyone else notice how the actor who played, "Little Finger" in Game of Thrones- was playing another scheming crook at the beginning of this movie, and how the actor who plays the Dective Quinn on the show Dexter is playing another a-hole cop (the one who blew the bridge on Robin) in this movie. I thought that was a little odd.

You see Aiden Gillen and your first thought is Littlefinger and not Tommy Carcetti? Shame on you.


Tangentially, I also appreciated the Robert Wisdom (Bunny Colvin) cameo.

Deberg_1990
07-22-2012, 10:46 AM
I thought it was pretty cool how they blended Pittsburgh and New York to create Gotham. I think the first two movies were an altered Chicago?


Also of note, the final action scene was in broad daylight. I believe all the other films, all the action scenes were during the night time?

luv
07-22-2012, 11:21 AM
I have no idea why you are in this thread if you haven't seen the movie

I've skimmed. Haven't read too many posts in depth. I just wanted to get a general feel for what people are saying. "My mind was blown" doesn't exactly give away too much of the movie. I'm done though. You won't see me in here again until after I see it.

Micjones
07-22-2012, 11:22 AM
Anne Hathaway is delicious. Never realized until yesterday morning.

OnTheWarpath58
07-22-2012, 11:33 AM
Anne Hathaway is delicious. Never realized until yesterday morning.

And she was phenomenal in the film.

I read stuff all over the internet leading up to the release where people were pissed she was cast as Selina Kyle - those folks seem to be eating crow this weekend.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 11:45 AM
Never doubt Nolan's casting. OK, maybe the Katie Holmes casting in Batman Begins. But other than that, no doubts!

Brock
07-22-2012, 12:33 PM
Never doubt Nolan's casting. OK, maybe the Katie Holmes Maggie Gyllenhall casting in Batman BeginsTDK. But other than that, no doubts!

.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 12:40 PM
.

Maggie is ten times the actress that Katie is.

Brock
07-22-2012, 12:41 PM
Maggie is ten times the actress that Katie is.

She's complete shit. And a dog to boot.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 12:44 PM
She's complete shit. And a dog to boot.

This

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 01:05 PM
She's complete shit. And a dog to boot.

Ignoring the sexist "durrr she's not hot" thing, I'd advise you to watch Secretary, Sherrybaby, Crazy Heart, and Happy Endings. You'll change whatever misconceptions you hold about her talent as an actor.

Brock
07-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Ignoring the sexist "durrr she's not hot" thing, I'd advise you to watch Secretary, Sherrybaby, Crazy Heart, and Happy Endings. You'll change whatever misconceptions you hold about her talent as an actor.

Seen them all, she's nothing special. Don't act like some uppity filmphile.

Nightfyre
07-22-2012, 01:11 PM
Ignoring the sexist "durrr she's not hot" thing, I'd advise you to watch Secretary, Sherrybaby, Crazy Heart, and Happy Endings. You'll change whatever misconceptions you hold about her talent as an actor.
This coming from the guy with the fucked up ranking of this trilogy.
Pull the stick out of your pretentious ass. She sucked in TDK.

She's complete shit. And a dog to boot.

This.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Seen them all, she's nothing special. Don't act like some uppity filmphile.

This coming from the guy with the fucked up ranking of this trilogy.
Pull the stick out of your pretentious ass. She sucked in TDK.


I can't help it if I'm way better at watching movies than y'all. I try, but I can't seem to help it.

kcpasco
07-22-2012, 01:24 PM
"You merely adopted the dark, I was born in it"

Epic line before an epic beat down

OnTheWarpath58
07-22-2012, 01:26 PM
"You merely adopted the dark, I was born in it"

Epic line before an epic beat down


"The shadows betray you. Because they belong to me."

Silock
07-22-2012, 01:29 PM
Maggie is much better actress than Katie.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 01:33 PM
I can't recall who it was but someone on this board pretty much predicted how the movie was gonna go down over the last couple years on point. What was gonna happen with the plot, how, when, where, etc. Nailed it.

Rams Fan
07-22-2012, 01:34 PM
"Why do we fall, Bruce?"

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 02:29 PM
"You merely adopted the dark, I was born in it"

Epic line before an epic beat down

"The shadows betray you. Because they belong to me."

Loved that part.

Brock
07-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Maggie is much better actress than Katie.

I don't know whether that's true, but she was not the right choice for TDK.

Stryker
07-22-2012, 03:53 PM
"I wondered which would break first. Your spirt or your body!"

Stryker
07-22-2012, 03:59 PM
Freaking awesome movie. Saw it last night 6:00 iMAX. They actually turned on the lights about 90 minutes into it and I thought - "Oh God, here we go!".

They quickly turned them back off - whew!

Shame what happened to Heath - a Joker appearance would have been icing on the cake. You had to have known that Batman wasn't dead after the nuke ordeal.

Mr. Plow
07-22-2012, 04:07 PM
She's complete shit. And a dog to boot.

Exactly.

Jawshco
07-22-2012, 04:14 PM
You see Aiden Gillen and your first thought is Littlefinger and not Tommy Carcetti? Shame on you.


Tangentially, I also appreciated the Robert Wisdom (Bunny Colvin) cameo.

Ha! I've never seen the Wire, but Game of Thrones is my favorite show, and Little Finger is arguably the most pivotal character in the entire series. So, I feel no shame in that. However, the Wire is on my Netflix queue of shows to watch.

Jawshco
07-22-2012, 04:17 PM
I was hoping the Joker would have the trigger. It would have been a great twist on the trigger scene from TDK. Of course, Talia needed to have it, so I was fine with that.

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 04:19 PM
couldn't have joker without heath

Silock
07-22-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't know whether that's true, but she was not the right choice for TDK.

Maybe not, but she was definitely a step up in the acting department, even though she was a "topple from the Empire State building" in terms of looks.

CoMoChief
07-22-2012, 06:09 PM
Hathaway looked very hot.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 06:33 PM
Having now spent 8 viewing ogling Hathaway (currently on my 9th viewing), her role is perfect. The nuances of her voice, the way she uses her eyes and lips, the way she tilts her head, the physicality in her role... So many subtle sexy movements (like how she uses her foot to trigger the windowwashing unit after she drags the guy out the window, or how when she's breaking into the second safe just before she sees Batman on TV she is crouching turned to the right and flips the crouch to the left, or how she arches her back and makes her butt rounder when on the Batbike). She perfectly blends the tough yet vulnerable, cynical yet goodhearted, jaded man-using (and woman-using) feminist using sex as a tool yet still a bit romantic.

Deberg_1990
07-22-2012, 06:37 PM
Having now spent 8 viewing ogling Hathaway (currently on my 9th viewing), her role is perfect. The nuances of her voice, the way she uses her eyes and lips, the way she tilts her head, the physicality in her role... So many subtle sexy movements (like how she uses her foot to trigger the windowwashing unit after she drags the guy out the window, or how when she's breaking into the second safe just before she sees Batman on TV she is crouching turned to the right and flips the crouch to the left, or how she arches her back and makes her butt rounder when on the Batbike). She perfectly blends the tough yet vulnerable, cynical yet goodhearted, jaded man-using (and woman-using) feminist using sex as a tool yet still a bit romantic.

Since you've seen it so much.....they never called her Catwomans did they? Or I don't even remember her character even being associated with cats at all right?

OnTheWarpath58
07-22-2012, 06:40 PM
Since you've seen it so much.....they never called her Catwomans did they? Or I don't even remember her character even being associated with cats at all right?

She was never referred to as Catwoman, but she was referred to as a cat burglar several times.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 06:44 PM
Since you've seen it so much.....they never called her Catwomans did they? Or I don't even remember her character even being associated with cats at all right?

No, they never do. Upon my first viewing, I told everyone that they did the film a great service by not having a Catwoman backstory, or show her "becoming" Catwoman. And by not labeling her, Hathaway can portray her or more than just a caricature or a distraction. In fact, they poke fun at the whole Catwoman thing; she's not even wearing ears in this film, but when she puts her night vision goggles on her head they look just like ears.

ragedogg69
07-22-2012, 06:45 PM
The closest was being referred to as a cat burglar. She actually had ears on during the charity ball. But your right, the wink by Nolen was the goggles.

Ebert summed the film up for me very well:
"the film begins slowly with a murky plot and too many new characters, but builds to a sensational climax."

I thought the first act was way to bloated. Other than that, I have no complaints. I cannot really point to anything in the beginning that needs to be cut. If only some of the plot points needed to be sped up a bit for my tastes.

I would love to argue that Hathaway deserves a best supporting actress nomination, but since she wasnt nominated for Love and Other Drugs where she was brilliant and naked half the time, I just cannot see the academy ever taking her serious for some reason. :(

JD10367
07-22-2012, 06:50 PM
I would love to argue that Hathaway deserves a best supporting actress nomination, but since she wasnt nominated for Love and Other Drugs where she was brilliant and naked half the time, I just cannot see the academy ever taking her serious for some reason. :(

Ah, yes, "Love And Other Drugs". IIRC: puffy nipples, hairy bush. :thumb:

Tribal Warfare
07-22-2012, 06:54 PM
The only thing that irked me was when Batman was on the Batcycle and miraculously Evel Knieveled his escape while being halted at gunpoint by Gotham PD.

kcpasco
07-22-2012, 07:40 PM
I thought the movie was really good

I guess my one complaint would be once he climbed out of the prison how in the hell did he get back to Gotham so fast with no money?

And I guess the answer could only be because he's BATMAN, that's why.

CoMoChief
07-22-2012, 07:41 PM
The only thing that irked me was when Batman was on the Batcycle and miraculously Evel Knieveled his escape while being halted at gunpoint by Gotham PD.

I just don't get how Bane died? His defeat was kinda "half assed" IMO.

Sure-Oz
07-22-2012, 07:43 PM
Pretty much Bane would kick batmans ass from what i can see, esp the older batman. Getting shot teh **** up will do...Bane was defeated though by batman after busting up his mask, probably the only way he could win

The Bad Guy
07-22-2012, 08:09 PM
Loved, loved this movie. Not a huge superhero movie buff, but this was the best movie I've seen in a long, long time.

100% agree with Brock about Maggie, too.

The Bad Guy
07-22-2012, 08:10 PM
I just don't get how Bane died? His defeat was kinda "half assed" IMO.

Wasn't he shot by Hathaway when she was on the bike?

CoMoChief
07-22-2012, 08:25 PM
Wasn't he shot by Hathaway when she was on the bike?

I thought she threw some kind of gernade or something at him.

Either way....as much of a hardass Bane was, IMO they should have done that a little better.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-22-2012, 08:40 PM
I thought she threw some kind of gernade or something at him.

Either way....as much of a hardass Bane was, IMO they should have done that a little better.

no, she shot him with the bat cannon on the bat bike.

The Bad Guy
07-22-2012, 08:48 PM
I thought she threw some kind of gernade or something at him.

Either way....as much of a hardass Bane was, IMO they should have done that a little better.

I think the focus was shifting at that moment to al Ghul and away from Bane so that could be one explanation for his quick departure.

Deberg_1990
07-22-2012, 09:11 PM
I thought she threw some kind of gernade or something at him.

Either way....as much of a hardass Bane was, IMO they should have done that a little better.

Batman had already returned and kicked his ass. She just finished him off.

tk13
07-22-2012, 09:15 PM
I didn't think it was that bad. Batman had just finally worn him down and basically beat him in a very long fight, and had him down before Talia jumped in. It's not like he was unbeatable the whole movie then got knocked out by a cheap shot.

Plus it showed Bruce's trust in someone had payed off. Especially right after Miranda Tate had betrayed him.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 09:21 PM
Is he dead? In his own words, "show me the body?"

He'd served his purpose for the film, and was removed from the plotline. Dead, probably, but maybe not.

the Talking Can
07-22-2012, 09:22 PM
why are people using spoiler tags in a spoilers thread? lol

anyways, i liked it but it didn't love it...felt 'dutiful'...like we all - audience, nolan, batman - had to march through this grim morality play...a bit too self serious for me, but that's the arc of this trilogy and Nolan was true to it

the only fun in the movie was catwoman: Hathaway was awesome and hot, and hot and awesome (and I've never liked her)

the Dark Knight is a better piece of entertainment, with the Joker still basically casting a shadow over the whole series (for me)...he was way more complex and interesting and fun and evil than Bane...

but i'm not a comics guy, so a lot of the details and genealogy are lost on me...and maybe i was just in a bad mood going in, or i just really like the joker...

Wallcrawler
07-22-2012, 09:39 PM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

tk13
07-22-2012, 09:53 PM
There's an entire scene where Blake explains how he knows Bruce is Batman.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 09:54 PM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well . . .

Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 10:02 PM
There's an entire scene where Blake explains how he knows Bruce is Batman.

Magic Orphan-dar.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 10:04 PM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

Your criticism that the film does things differently than the comics is ill-founded. But your qualms with the plot holes and cheap methods used are spot-on.

tk13
07-22-2012, 10:05 PM
Magic Orphan-dar.

I didn't say you had to like the reasoning. :) I just said there was a scene where he explains it. I'm not an orphan though. I would guess that scene probably would've had more of an impact with someone who was, but I don't know.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 10:09 PM
I didn't say you had to like the reasoning. :) I just said there was a scene where he explains it. I'm not an orphan though. I would guess that scene probably would've had more of an impact with someone who was, but I don't know.

It's one of a great many Deus ex Machnia that Nolan uses in the film, but I don't really have a problem with it. I'm chalking it up to the kind of insight about people that will help make Robin Blake a good Batman.

Wallcrawler
07-22-2012, 10:11 PM
Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.

Then why use Talia? Why not just imagine up a new character like they did with the Rachel Dawes character?

You dont just use mainstay characters and disregard the source material and expect a great response from people familiar with it. Talia wasnt born in that pit, and she certainly wouldnt have tried to murder Bruce and destroy Gotham.

What is his next act? Lois Lane jams a hunk of kryptonite up Superman's ass and attempts to kill him in his upcoming film? It would make about as much sense.

Valiant
07-22-2012, 10:16 PM
Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.

This..

JD10367
07-22-2012, 10:32 PM
Then why use Talia? Why not just imagine up a new character like they did with the Rachel Dawes character?

You dont just use mainstay characters and disregard the source material and expect a great response from people familiar with it. Talia wasnt born in that pit, and she certainly wouldnt have tried to murder Bruce and destroy Gotham.

What is his next act? Lois Lane jams a hunk of kryptonite up Superman's ass and attempts to kill him in his upcoming film? It would make about as much sense.

Lois Lane is a major character in the Superman world. Talia is not a major character in the Batman world unless you're a comics nerd. People know Batman, Robin, the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman. And even those characters have been tinkered with (hell, in the first Burton film he made Joker the killer of Batman's parents). This is not a literal translation; it's the third chapter in the Nolan/Bane world. He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 10:34 PM
He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.

No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.

JD10367
07-22-2012, 10:40 PM
No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.

I didn't mean WE thought he needed a twist. HE wanted a twist. It is, after all, his film. And for almost everyone (i.e. people who don't know who Talia is in the comics), it was an effective twist. Why did he do it? Why did he change Bane's origin and character specifics? Why did he have some cop named John Blake be named Robin? Who knows. It's his film, his version of the Batman story, and his conclusion to it. No one is ever going to make the perfect movie that makes everyone happy. Find any movie on Rotten Tomatoes and even if it has 99% rating there's someone who thought it sucked. Most people liked "Avengers", some loved it, and some hated it. I think most people will like "TDKR", some will love it, and some will hate it. Que sera sera.

The Bad Guy
07-22-2012, 10:58 PM
Question since I didn't really watch Batman Begins...why is Liam Neeson credited as Henri Ducard and another guy is as al Ghul? I thought Neeson was al Ghul in both.

Sorry to ask a dumb question.

Deberg_1990
07-22-2012, 11:01 PM
Heh, it appears the biggest critics of this film and all the Nolan Batman films are the true hardcore comic book nerds.

A lot of guys have a hard time accepting changes or a Different interpretation of something they love. Understandable I guess......

tk13
07-22-2012, 11:08 PM
No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.

That's the beauty of it to me though, that's what makes him a great filmmaker. It's hard to surprise people. That's why you go to his movies, to be surprised, awed, and taken away by film. I certainly wouldn't want every filmmaker to do that, obviously. But he does it well. And he's great at keeping his foot on your throat. Instead of one major conflict/resolution he just beats you down and adds problem after problem to overcome, and then when you think the hero has made it over the hump, he'll push it farther.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:10 PM
Question since I didn't really watch Batman Begins...why is Liam Neeson credited as Henri Ducard and another guy is as al Ghul? I thought Neeson was al Ghul in both.

Sorry to ask a dumb question.

no one answer this. Watch batman begins, its worth it.

tk13
07-22-2012, 11:11 PM
And I realize I'm about to get hit over the head with a Film Snob stick for making those comments.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:15 PM
Heh, it appears the biggest critics of this film and all the Nolan Batman films are the true hardcore comic book nerds.

A lot of guys have a hard time accepting changes or a Different interpretation of something they love. Understandable I guess......

This movie, you either love it or hate it. It has nothing to do with the comics, because people would've had issues with Nolan's interpretations of Year One or The Killing Joke. None of them are seamless and to expect them to be is setting yourself up for disappointment.

The Bad Guy
07-22-2012, 11:16 PM
no one answer this. Watch batman begins, its worth it.

I'm definitely going to. My wife, who has seen it, couldnt remember why that was.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm definitely going to. My wife, who has seen it, couldnt remember why that was.

Its worth waiting and seeing because this question establishes who Ras al Ghul truly is. If after you watch it and are still lingering PM me I'll be more than happy to fill in any blanks. I just feel you will enjoy the movie more without this info.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 11:46 PM
That's the beauty of it to me though, that's what makes him a great filmmaker. It's hard to surprise people. That's why you go to his movies, to be surprised, awed, and taken away by film. I certainly wouldn't want every filmmaker to do that, obviously. But he does it well. And he's great at keeping his foot on your throat. Instead of one major conflict/resolution he just beats you down and adds problem after problem to overcome, and then when you think the hero has made it over the hump, he'll push it farther.

It's easy to surprise people when it comes in the form of cheap plot machinations.

And for what its worth, I was not one-bit surprised that Miranda Tait was Talia al Ghul. There was lots of speculation in the years leading up to the movie that Marion Cotillard was cast as Talia, and the press junkets really went out of their way to build up Miranda Tait as not-Talia. As soon as Bruce starts tracing that scar on the back of Tait/al Ghul's back I knew where the film was going with her.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:49 PM
It's easy to surprise people when it comes in the form of cheap plot machinations.

And for what its worth, I was not one-bit surprised that Miranda Tait was Talia al Ghul. There was lots of speculation in the years leading up to the movie that Marion Cotillard was cast as Talia, and the press junkets really went out of their way to build up Miranda Tait as not-Talia. As soon as Bruce starts tracing that scar on the back of Tait/al Ghul's back I knew where the film was going with her.

Doesn't that mean you ruined the twist by reading spoilers as opposed to taking the film at face value?

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:52 PM
I'm sorry, but when a movie is as hyped as this you MUST show one thing and give another. I feel he succeeded in that aspect. Tons of people dug, researched, and predicted. If you want to make your movie successcul you need to go off the script a bit to avoid prediction and expectation.

tk13
07-22-2012, 11:53 PM
I can't really argue with that. I usually attempt to go into movies knowing as little as possible. Didn't watch any interviews, only saw the very first trailer, did not read a single review. I pretty much hadn't read any single new piece of information about this film in over 6 months. That's just usually how I like to do it.

Reaper16
07-22-2012, 11:56 PM
Doesn't that mean you ruined the twist by reading spoilers as opposed to taking the film at face value?
I didn't read any spoilers for this film. Did I read the non-spoiler thread ('Nolan's Batman 3 Title') in the years leading up to the film's release? Sure; people were speculating about Cotillard being Talia just like people were speculating about Joseph Gordon-Levitt being some sort of Robin figure. That both ended up being exactly that didn't diminish the film in any way for me.

I'm sorry, but when a movie is as hyped as this you MUST show one thing and give another. I feel he succeeded in that aspect. Tons of people dug, researched, and predicted. If you want to make your movie successcul you need to go off the script a bit to avoid prediction and expectation.

Or you could just trust your characters and storytelling ability and expertise at creating filmic atmospheres, and just make a good movie. That would work for me.

mr. tegu
07-23-2012, 12:01 AM
I loved the whole Bane story line and the connections made to the first two movies. And after reading that some people knew the story from the comics, I am really glad I didn't because the reveals at the end, and throughout the movie for that matter (mercenary, etc). were awesome and kept me in suspense.

I also thought it was cool that Wayne left clues to those closest to him that he wasn't dead. This movie didn't have quite as many one liners but one that was great was when Catwoman jumped away without Batman noticing and he says, "so that's what that feels like."

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:06 AM
I didn't read any spoilers for this film. Did I read the non-spoiler thread ('Nolan's Batman 3 Title') in the years leading up to the film's release? Sure; people were speculating about Cotillard being Talia just like people were speculating about Joseph Gordon-Levitt being some sort of Robin figure. That both ended up being exactly that didn't diminish the film in any way for me.



Or you could just trust your characters and storytelling ability and expertise at creating filmic atmospheres, and just make a good movie. That would work for me.

I don't know man. To each their own, but I can't help but wonder if that whole fear of death issue we discussed earlier opened your eyes to more holes than I can see. Because I thoroughly enjoyed it. It completed what I wanted and I am glad I didnt read the speculation of who was playing Talia, that probably would've ruined it for me.

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:07 AM
I loved the whole Bane story line and the connections made to the first two movies. And after reading that some people knew the story from the comics, I am really glad I didn't because the reveals at the end, and throughout the movie for that matter (mercenary, etc). were awesome and kept me in suspense.

I also thought it was cool that Wayne left clues to those closest to him that he wasn't dead. This movie didn't have quite as many one liners but one that was great was when Catwoman jumped away without Batman noticing and he says, "so that's what that feels like."

LMAO that had me cracking up

Raiderhader
07-23-2012, 12:11 AM
Heh, it appears the biggest critics of this film and all the Nolan Batman films are the true hardcore comic book nerds.

A lot of guys have a hard time accepting changes or a Different interpretation of something they love. Understandable I guess......


I totally get that POV.

That being said, how many different Batman universes exist with in the comic book world itself? People are being a little too up tight about this.

Reaper16
07-23-2012, 12:17 AM
I don't know man. To each their own, but I can't help but wonder if that whole fear of death issue we discussed earlier opened your eyes to more holes than I can see. Because I thoroughly enjoyed it. It completed what I wanted and I am glad I didnt read the speculation of who was playing Talia, that probably would've ruined it for me.

I liked the movie. I'll probably go see it again. Just because a film is flawed doesn't mean I can't still enjoy it. I like pizza rolls. I like cheesy power metal. I like breezy shows like Burn Notice. And I like ambitious, dark Hollywood films like Nolan's batman trilogy, even if I find them lacking in many respects. I'm really into film, and I have high standards and I'm opinionated, basically.

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:47 AM
I liked the movie. I'll probably go see it again. Just because a film is flawed doesn't mean I can't still enjoy it. I like pizza rolls. I like cheesy power metal. I like breezy shows like Burn Notice. And I like ambitious, dark Hollywood films like Nolan's batman trilogy, even if I find them lacking in many respects. I'm really into film, and I have high standards and I'm opinionated, basically.

Trust me I am merely enjoying the conversation. I enjoy hearing others opinions, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I just find it fascinating that Batman Begins is top of the trilogy for you. Maybe I need to hear your perspective of that movie, not this one, to understand your reasoning for that ranking.
.

Chiefspants
07-23-2012, 03:51 AM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!


So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises

Your disappointment about the movie's deviation from the comics seems to be driving the majority of your criticism. It's well established that this is Nolan's world, and no one should have been surprised or dismayed by this after Begins and The Dark Knight.

Wallcrawler
07-23-2012, 08:15 AM
Lois Lane is a major character in the Superman world. Talia is not a major character in the Batman world unless you're a comics nerd. People know Batman, Robin, the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman. And even those characters have been tinkered with (hell, in the first Burton film he made Joker the killer of Batman's parents). This is not a literal translation; it's the third chapter in the Nolan/Bane world. He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.


Okay, you. You just used a Tim Burton Batman film as a way to try to make your point that artistic license should not be questioned. Your credibility is flushed, and this conversation is over.

Screw "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book" Tim Burton.

Deberg_1990
07-23-2012, 08:24 AM
Okay, you. You just used a Tim Burton Batman film as a way to try to make your point that artistic license should not be questioned. Your credibility is flushed, and this conversation is over.

Screw "Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book" Tim Burton.

:facepalm:

Wallcrawler
07-23-2012, 08:41 AM
Your disappointment about the movie's deviation from the comics seems to be driving the majority of your criticism. It's well established that this is Nolan's world, and no one should have been surprised or dismayed by this after Begins and The Dark Knight.

Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

Micjones
07-23-2012, 08:43 AM
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well...

I think that's the point.
They want these films to touch the broadest base of people possible.
Fanboys are a minority.
Most people won't have an intimate knowledge of the source material.

Mr. Plow
07-23-2012, 08:56 AM
Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.


LMAO

Deberg_1990
07-23-2012, 09:01 AM
I think that's the point.
They want these films to touch the broadest base of people possible.
Fanboys are a minority.
Most people won't have an intimate knowledge of the source material.

This.....X1000 this

For instance, i love comic book characters and this current run we are in of the comic book movies. BUt i dont read comic books or graphic novels so i cant say i know these side characters all that well if at all.

Movies and books are two completely different mediums. Movie creators change original source material all the time, this is nothing new.

Question for comic book fans: If you watched the first two Nolan Batman films, did you think he was gonna suddenly change direction and make something more comic book pure?

ThaVirus
07-23-2012, 10:12 AM
Like pretty much everyone else is saying, its easier to enjoy these films as a reimagining of the world of Batman than a completely loyal to the comics installation.

I personally won't complain about any of the characters he introduced in his world. He took some borderline ridiculous, seriously campy villains and grounded them in reality as much as possible. Did anyone really want to see a Bane similar to the one from the comics? We already saw that and that movie blew.

Fish
07-23-2012, 10:56 AM
Anybody else feel this way too?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2747/48206045125613157268116.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
07-23-2012, 10:59 AM
Anybody else feel this way too?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2747/48206045125613157268116.jpg

LMAO

Yes.

Turned to my wife Friday night after the plane scene and said, "I'll take famous titties for $1000, Alex".

Seemed to tone down a bit after the first hour, maybe I was just getting used to it.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-23-2012, 11:14 AM
I thought his voice sounded like Liam Neeson impersonating Sean Connery.


But I've also hated Bale's Batman voice since day 1.

Deberg_1990
07-23-2012, 11:28 AM
But I've also hated Bale's Batman voice since day 1.

now thats something they have tinkered with over the 3 films. I watched the first one last night and it was hardly tinerked with at all. When he was Batman, it sounded just like Bale. The last one was waay overdone. This one they toned it back down again.

Reaper16
07-23-2012, 12:13 PM
I had to hold back laughter the first few times that Batman spoke in TDKR because all I could think about was Dany Pudi's perfect impersonation of that voice on Community, whenever Abed is pretending to be Batman.

Jawshco
07-23-2012, 12:18 PM
Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years. You can put your own mark on a film and tell your story in a unique way without slapping a name from the books on one of your characters you dreamed up and trying to pass them off as the same person.

Miranda Tate should have stayed Miranda Tate, because that damn sure was not Talia Al Ghul.

While I understand that to maintain the realistic, grounded look, concessions had to be made with Bane's appearance, there was absolutely ZERO excuse to destroy his origin of growing up in the pit and becoming what he was, other than just doing it so he could get that hack Talia twist over. No mention of Venom at all, yet we are to believe that he can punch through a concrete pillar without any problems. Excommunicated by Ra's Al Ghul. I nearly pissed myself laughing at that. Ra's Al Ghul found him to be a more worthy successor than Batman, who he had coveted for years.

Im trying to understand why someone who is making a film based on such long standing, and high quality source material would go out of his way to make fans of this material sit wide eyed in a WTF moment.


Talia is on the same level of not even close as Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers in X MEN Origins, and The Sandman as Uncle Ben's Killer in Spider-Man 3.

I guess its just too hard to take material that's already written and proven to be awesome and put in on the big screen, even for Christopher Nolan.

How much do you hate the new reboot of the DC universe where most of the backstories we love no longer happened in those comics? It sounds like Marvel is gearing up to do a similar fleecing of it's characters histories as well.

There are going to be MANY different takes on any comic characters origin and backstories. I take these movies the same way I take the Frank Miller, All-Star Batman & Robin series. It's not canon (not that anything is anymore), but it's very entertaining series despite the obvious flaws. (Would have loved to hear Bale say that he's the 'Goddamned Batman' at least once in that voice).

I agree that this last movie isn't the best one of the series, but if expect a better made comic film series than this, you're going to be waiting a long time. Nothing else comes close IMO.

DBOSHO
07-23-2012, 01:20 PM
now thats something they have tinkered with over the 3 films. I watched the first one last night and it was hardly tinerked with at all. When he was Batman, it sounded just like Bale. The last one was waay overdone. This one they toned it back down again.

Especially when he was asking bane where the trigger was in the end. It was baddddd.

RockChalk
07-23-2012, 01:49 PM
Just because this is Nolan's vision of the Batman universe should not give him the right to just hack out and completely change characters that fans (what should be his target audience) have known for years.

People such as yourself are not Nolan's target. He wasn't after the 35-year old man still living in his parents basement surrounded by thousands upon thousands of comic books, pizza boxes, and diet coke cans. Begins and TDK should have provided enough indication for you that Nolan had no intentions of staying perfectly true to the comics.

Of the fans you reference, I'd guess that only about 5% of people who watch TDKR follow the comics and know the back story of the characters. Those 5%, of which you are included, can be disappointed and cry to each other on your comic book forum. Sure, the movie had some plot-holes, but I don't think it took away one damn thing from how good of a conclusion this was. The remaining 95% of us can enjoy that Nolan put together one hell of series, with a conclusion that I (and most everyone who saw it) found to be quite enjoyable.

jiveturkey
07-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Should I be pissed that Nolan didn't stick to the Arkham video games? :)

Most of my Batman knowledge is from previous movies, the cartoon from the 90's and the Arkham video games.

This may have been covered but I'm guessing that they left it hanging so that someone else can take over while Nolan stays on as producer??? Or not because Robin might be a pretty boring movie.

ThaVirus
07-23-2012, 02:26 PM
Especially when he was asking bane where the trigger was in the end. It was baddddd.

I always thought the voice sucked, but maybe that part could be explained away by emotion.

Silock
07-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Comic books themselves rewrite origin stories and tinker with back stories all the time. No sure why anyone would be more pissed at a movie for doing the exact same thing.

mikeyis4dcats.
07-23-2012, 02:44 PM
hell, it's not like Nolan made him gay or anything.

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Entertainment/green-lantern-gay-660.jpg

JD10367
07-23-2012, 02:44 PM
Especially when he was asking bane where the trigger was in the end. It was baddddd.

"Where's the trigger?" sounded a lot like Buffalo Bill's "You don't know what pain is!" to the chubby chick in the pit near the end of "Silence Of The Lambs".

I honestly don't mind Christian Bale's growling. I mean, he's supposed to be a dark avenging creature of the night. Should he lisp? Keaton already did the whispery thing in the Burton "Batman". Should he just talk regular? Then he'd seem silly, like Adam West. :shrug:

JD10367
07-23-2012, 02:47 PM
hell, it's not like Nolan made him gay or anything.

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Entertainment/green-lantern-gay-660.jpg

"Quick, Robin! To the Batpole! And don't forget the Bat-Lube and the Bat-Tissues."

Count Alex's Losses
07-23-2012, 02:47 PM
First 30 minutes were feeling really dodgy to me, and then it got really strong and finished STRONGER.

AMAZING.

And I really thought he was dead, what a great ending.

Shit, might have been even better if they had just showed Alfred smiling into the camera and cut to black.

FUCKING BEST THIRD MOVIE IN A TRILOGY EVER.

And Bane walking around like Darth Vader was awesome.

JD10367
07-23-2012, 02:52 PM
First 30 minutes were feeling really dodgy to me, and then it got really strong and finished STRONGER.

AMAZING.

And I really thought he was dead, what a great ending.

Shit, might have been even better if they had just showed Alfred smiling into the camera and cut to black.

As I stated upon my initial viewing, the film feels more like the middle chapter of a book; it dives right into the plot, with lots of dialogue, and you have to figure it out. "Wait, what? He's been gone for 8 years? He's a recluse? What's with the cane?" Once you sort things out it pulls you in.

As for the ending, I agree that a smiling Alfred would've been great, but the "common people" really had to see Bale. At my midnight opening, the whole theater was pindrop silent all film, until that reveal of Bane and Hathaway at the table, and then they roared; it was as close to the Great Movie Roar* as I've yet to experience.

*The original 1977 theater showing of "Star Wars", when the Death Star exploded... Even though I was a child, I vividly remember it... After it blew up, and Obi-Wan said "The Force will be with you... always", people were STILL cheering.

CoMoChief
07-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Joker and Bane were SUCH better villians than the gay Scarecrow.