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OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 01:46 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8242711/nfl-kansas-city-chiefs-making-mistake-dwayne-bowe

The Kansas City Chiefs are making a mistake with wide receiver Dwayne Bowe.

They can talk up second-year wideout Jon Baldwin all they want. They can believe it makes more fiscal sense to keep Bowe on a one-year franchise tender than a long-term deal. What they can't do is convince the world that they can win without him totally focused. That's just not going to work out well for them.

Bowe is easily the least-discussed holdout in the NFL these days, but his situation certainly is capable of hurting the Chiefs in the long run. Because Kansas City won't know if running back Jamaal Charles has recovered completely from a torn ACL, Bowe is the best offensive player on the Chiefs' roster. He's gained more than 1,000 yards receiving in three of the past four seasons. He's made the Pro Bowl. He's been the person Kansas City could most count on when it needed to make something happen offensively.

Most importantly, Bowe is the man who makes life easier for quarterback Matt Cassel. We've reached the point where we finally can say with conviction that Cassel is merely a serviceable NFL signal-caller. He's not good enough to carry a team by himself and he's capable only when surrounded by the right people. That means Cassel needs all the legitimate weapons he can find. In that regard, Bowe is as good as it gets for the Chiefs.

The problem is Bowe has been nowhere near the Chiefs since last season ended. The team hit him with the franchise tender when he became a free agent and the speculation then was that a long-term deal was bound to happen. General manager Scott Pioli had declined to invest big money in cornerback Brandon Carr (another free agent who eventually signed a $50 million deal in Dallas), so it appeared Kansas City was going all-in on Bowe. That possibility died the moment the deadline to sign long-term deals passed without Bowe and the Chiefs reaching an agreement. He could play this year for $9.5 million, then see what happens next offseason.

The theory that has been suggested in some circles is that the Chiefs want to rent Bowe for a year instead of committing to him long-term. The thinking there is that he'd been such a knucklehead in his early years -- inflated ego, shaky work ethic, stupid comments to the media -- that there's no telling how he'd behave with a hefty raise. The reality is that the old Bowe vanished years ago. In his place is a wiser, steadier veteran who rarely even talks to reporters.

At this stage, you could legitimately argue that Bowe is one of the 10 best wide receivers in the NFL. He also deserves to be paid somewhere in the neighborhood of the deals that recently went to receivers such as Philadelphia's DeSean Jackson (five years, $51 million) and Tampa Bay's Vincent Jackson (five years, $55 million). Now it's possible Bowe might have complicated negotiations by overestimating his market value. It's also quite likely that Pioli was never willing to spend too much to keep Bowe in the first place.

If Pioli's history in New England should tell us anything about his thoughts on receivers, it's that he doesn't place a high value on them. The Patriots never gave big money to their wideouts during Pioli's tenure -- they parted ways with two starters, Deion Branch and David Givens, after New England won Super Bowl XXXIX -- and the acquisition of Randy Moss in 2007 was a major bargain. The Patriots stole Moss from Oakand in a trade that cost New England a fourth-round pick. It was the kind of safe gamble that Pioli relishes.

It's now safe to assume Pioli was positioning himself for this offseason when he used a first-round pick on Baldwin in the 2011 draft. But turning to Baldwin as the No. 1 receiver is a big risk in a year when Kansas City desperately needs to finish on the right side of .500. If the Chiefs start stinking up the joint once again, Pioli -- who has been around for one winning season in three years -- will be feeling the heat right along with new head coach Romeo Crennel.

It's a big leap to think a player with 21 career receptions is going to be as good as Bowe is right now. We also know Bowe will return to the Chiefs at some point because he has no choice -- he can't get a long-term deal until next offseason, when Pioli can franchise him again. What isn't so easy to predict is when Bowe will come back and where his head will be at that point. Contract issues sent DeSean Jackson into a funk in Philadelphia last season and they had the same effect on Vincent Jackson during his final two years in San Diego. It's possible Bowe could let his own problems infect his play and that locker room.

It's also apparent that the Chiefs are sending a bad message to one of their best players. They gave long-term deals to stars such as Charles, cornerback Brandon Flowers and linebackers Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali once they proved their worth. They should've done the same for Bowe as soon as he established his value. It's not like Kansas City doesn't have the money. It's consistently been way under the cap ever since Pioli's arrival in 2009.

We will see what that strategy means for the Chiefs as this year progresses. They're claiming Baldwin is making huge strides and they're staying tight-lipped about Bowe's absence. They're surely thinking their star receiver has no option except to rejoin them and suck it up. What they can't predict is how this season will go if he's not cool with the way he's been treated.

Sofa King
08-07-2012, 01:48 PM
Bowe's the one currently making the mistake. (before i read the article.)


EDIT:

Meh. Article is pretty much the same argument we've had already on CP.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 01:53 PM
Bowe's the one currently making the mistake. (before i read the article.)

My question is, if Bowe get injured in TC and misses games, does he still get every dime of that $9.5?

mdchiefsfan
08-07-2012, 01:53 PM
My question is, if Bowe get injured in TC and misses games, does he still get every dime of that $9.5?

Yup if his tender is signed he gets paid

The Franchise
08-07-2012, 01:56 PM
It's also apparent that the Chiefs are sending a bad message to one of their best players. They gave long-term deals to stars such as Charles, cornerback Brandon Flowers and linebackers Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali once they proved their worth. They should've done the same for Bowe as soon as he established his value. It's not like Kansas City doesn't have the money. It's consistently been way under the cap ever since Pioli's arrival in 2009.

This.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 01:56 PM
At this stage, you could legitimately argue that Bowe is one of the 10 best wide receivers in the NFL.


If Pioli's history in New England should tell us anything about his thoughts on receivers, it's that he doesn't place a high value on them. The Patriots never gave big money to their wideouts during Pioli's tenure -- they parted ways with two starters, Deion Branch and David Givens, after New England won Super Bowl XXXIX -- and the acquisition of Randy Moss in 2007 was a major bargain. The Patriots stole Moss from Oakand in a trade that cost New England a fourth-round pick. It was the kind of safe gamble that Pioli relishes.<br />
<br />
It's now safe to assume Pioli was positioning himself for this offseason when he used a first-round pick on Baldwin in the 2011 draft.

Bowe is a thug!!!!!!111

He doesn't want to be here!!!!11

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 01:57 PM
Yeah, no shit?

At least someone out there has some sense.

BigCatDaddy
08-07-2012, 02:00 PM
Depends on what they are offering. If they are around 10-11 per year then it is his fault if he thinks he is going to get Megatron type money.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:01 PM
Yup if his tender is signed he gets paid

Then it's stupid of him to not get his ass in TC.

Don't let this post make you think im against Bowe, I'm strongly in his corner.

But not being in TC does him absolutely no good and can only hurt him.

This hold out is pretty fucking stupid on his part.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:02 PM
Not if Bowe is asking for Johnson/Fitz money

Then it's Bowe who is making the mistake

I find it really hard to believe that if Bowe is only asking for 10 million per that the Chiefs would rather pay the 9 million for 1 year.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:03 PM
Not if Bowe is asking for Johnson/Fitz money

Then it's Bowe who is making the mistake

I find it really hard to believe that if Bowe is only asking for 10 million per that the Chiefs would rather pay the 9 million for 1 year.

That's a valid point.

Unless the dispute is over guarantees, which likely could be the case.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:05 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?

vailpass
08-07-2012, 02:06 PM
Bowe's the one currently making the mistake. (before i read the article.)


EDIT:

Meh. Article is pretty much the same argument we've had already on CP.

Seems like it depends on who needs who more.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:06 PM
That's a valid point.

Unless the dispute is over guarantees, which likely could be the case.
sure ... maybe Bowe wants the same 50 million guaranteed that fitz got so the Chiefs figure it's just as safe to sit on the tag for a year and see what Bowe does.

we dunno

BigCatDaddy
08-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?

If they had any attention on keeping him past this year then yes they probably did.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?

guess that depends on what you think market value is for Bowe.

Like Laz said, Bowe must asking for more than 10 million a year, so that's a good starting point if we're going to try to make a guess at what he's asking.

Why would the Chiefs balk at 10M, but then be ok paying him 9.5M on a one year deal?

Stewie
08-07-2012, 02:08 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?

The point I've heard is that Bowe's idea of his market value vs. his real market value are not in line. No inside info, just what I've heard and read.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:08 PM
The point I've heard is that Bowe's idea of his market value vs. his real market value are not in line. No inside info, just what I've heard and read.

Which is all pure speculation.

saphojunkie
08-07-2012, 02:10 PM
God, Jeff Chadiha hates Pioli. I mean...HATES him.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:10 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?
really hard to tell, i imagine 'which market level' is a key issue.

Is Bowe in the Fitz/Johnson level or is he in the 9-11 million per market.

like i said, if Bowe was asking for the 9-11 million per market he would already be signed imo.

Why would the Chiefs ride the 9 million tag if Bowe was only asking for 9-11 mill per?

... barring a big guarantee difference, of course.

Coogs
08-07-2012, 02:11 PM
We've reached the point where we finally can say with conviction that Cassel is merely a serviceable NFL signal-caller. He's not good enough to carry a team by himself

:clap:

Best part of the article!

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 02:11 PM
Why are we even talking about yearly money, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT.

IT'S ABOUT GUARANTEED MONEY AND NOTHING ELSE.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:11 PM
God, Jeff Chadiha hates Pioli. I mean...HATES him.

Yeah, i my initial post was going to be about Chadiha, but he didn't blast Pioli as much as i was expecting.

mdchiefsfan
08-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Then it's stupid of him to not get his ass in TC.

Don't let this post make you think im against Bowe, I'm strongly in his corner.

But not being in TC does him absolutely no good and can only hurt him.

This hold out is pretty ****ing stupid on his part.

I completely agree. I assume he is working out on his own, if anything happens during those workouts hes SOL.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:12 PM
guess that depends on what you think market value is for Bowe.

Like Laz said, Bowe must asking for more than 10 million a year, so that's a good starting point if we're going to try to make a guess at what he's asking.

Why would the Chiefs balk at 10M, but then be ok paying him 9.5M on a one year deal?

Yep, he must be asking for 12+ million and/or 50 million guaranteed -ish


or Bowe could just want OUT and is trying to force the issue. :shrug:

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:12 PM
guess that depends on what you think market value is for Bowe.

Like Laz said, Bowe must asking for more than 10 million a year, so that's a good starting point if we're going to try to make a guess at what he's asking.

Why would the Chiefs balk at 10M, but then be ok paying him 9.5M on a one year deal?

They tried to trade him for picks at the draft. They have no intention of paying market for anyone.

He is on his way out just like Carr was.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 02:13 PM
Bowe's the one currently making the mistake. (before i read the article.)


EDIT:

Meh. Article is pretty much the same argument we've had already on CP.

This. Just pay the man and get this team a QB that truly is "serviceable".

Because, Cassel isn't even that. Even with "all the right elements around him".

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:13 PM
Why are we even talking about yearly money, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT.

IT'S ABOUT GUARANTEED MONEY AND NOTHING ELSE.
all pure speculation

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:14 PM
Yep, he must be asking for 12+ million and/or 50 million guaranteed -ish


or Bowe could just want OUT and is trying to force the issue. :shrug:

Or they have no intentions of signing him long term, and are basically renting him for another season.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:14 PM
They tried to trade him for picks at the draft. They have no intention of paying market for anyone.

He is on his way out just like Carr was.
oh bullshit

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 02:15 PM
all pure speculation

EVERY contract issue is about guaranteed money.

That's the only fucking thing that matters.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:15 PM
They tried to trade him for picks at the draft. They have no intention of paying market for anyone.

He is on his way out just like Carr was.

I tend to agree with this.

You don't try to trade someone you're planning on signing long term.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Why are we even talking about yearly money, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT.

IT'S ABOUT GUARANTEED MONEY AND NOTHING ELSE.

i guess you missed the other posts where we said the same thing already....

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:16 PM
They tried to trade him for picks at the draft. They have no intention of paying market for anyone.

He is on his way out just like Carr was.

Speculation.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:16 PM
oh bullshit

What exactly is bullshit about it, other than you don't want to believe it?

It's been reported by numerous media outlets and guys from Schefter on down the line.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 02:16 PM
i guess you missed the other posts where we said the same thing already....

And yet people still don't get it.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:17 PM
Or they have no intentions of signing him long term, and are basically renting him for another season.
and why would they do that?


1. They don't believing in paying big for WRs
2. They specifically don't want to pay Bowe for some reason we don't know of
3. Hunt doesn't want to fork out that kind of money



despite what some people believe, Pioli doesn't want to lose so there needs to be some REASON for having no intention of signing him.

2bikemike
08-07-2012, 02:18 PM
I don't really know what to believe with Bowe. On one hand I am concerned it was Haley that held him in check. Without Haley around he could return to major dumbassery.

Does anybody know what kind of shape he is in?

He definately needs to be in camp working out the kinks of whatever new wrinkles the Offense is adding.

I think he would have been better served to play the good soldier and came into camp on time and done everything in his power to have a monster season. If at that point Pioli didn't pay him he would have much more bargaining power and I would believe the pay would be greater than what he possibly could have got this year.

If he comes in outta shape or can't adjust to the new offense and if the timing is off, he will have little bargaining power.

On the other hand I can certainly understand if he wanted out of KC. I mean imagine what he could do if he had a decent freaking QB throwing the ball to him. His production would have to go up.

whoman69
08-07-2012, 02:18 PM
As soon as he comes into camp the tender is signed. He's losing nothing financially by not showing.

The Chiefs with extra cap space this year should have front loaded a contract for him. That way they could leave space open on later years in the deal.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 02:19 PM
As soon as he comes into camp the tender is signed. He's losing nothing financially by not showing.

The Chiefs with extra cap space this year should have front loaded a contract for him. That way they could leave space open on later years in the deal.
not showing up gains him nothing and only increases his chance of getting hurt.


he can't blackmail his way to a big contract

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:25 PM
Without Haley around he could return to major dumbassery..

Such as?

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:25 PM
What exactly is bullshit about it, other than you don't want to believe it?

It's been reported by numerous media outlets and guys from Schefter on down the line.

They don't WANT to believe it.

But Pioli and company's history is that they do not pay market for players. They consider all of them interchangeable. They don't generally employ superstars outside of the quarterback. it's not the Patriot Way.

This fanciful tale that they want Bowe back and will pay market value for him is silly.

This is all a dance whereby they will try to score a free mid-round pick or two and keep up appearances, while at the same time letting another guy go who - like Carr, while a great player - they do not feel is essential to winning.

They didnt resign him before his franchise year like you would if you wanted to keep him on a long term deal.

They drafted his replacement.

Then they tried to trade him.

They're now grooming his replacement. What more do they have to telegraph?

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:25 PM
They are going to fuck this up.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:26 PM
and why would they do that?


1. They don't believing in paying big for WRs
2. They specifically don't want to pay Bowe for some reason we don't know of
3. Hunt doesn't want to fork out that kind of money



despite what some people believe, Pioli doesn't want to lose so there needs to be some REASON for having no intention of signing him.

Probably all of those.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:27 PM
At the end of the day, it's all pure speculation.
None of us know why the Chiefs and Bowe didn't get a deal done.

Could be because Pioli had no intentions of signing him long-term.
Could be because Bowe wants crazy money.

I know it's dumb that Bowe's still not in camp at this point.
And if the FO had reservations about his maturity I certainly don't blame them seeing how he's still holding out with nothing to gain.

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:27 PM
They don't WANT to believe it.

But Pioli and company's history is that they do not pay market for players. They consider all of them interchangeable. They don't generally employ superstars outside of the quarterback. it's not the Patriot Way.

This fanciful tale that they want Bowe back and will pay market value for him is silly.

This is all a dance whereby they will try to score a free mid-round pick or two and keep up appearances, while at the same time letting another guy go who - like Carr, while a great player - they do not feel is essential to winning.

They didnt resign him before his franchise year like you would if you wanted to keep him on a long term deal.

They drafted his replacement.

Then they tried to trade him.

They're now grooming his replacement. What more do they have to telegraph?

I was saying the same thing, basically. But, I do have to ask, is there truth to the trade talks or is that a CP rumor that was told enough that it became true?

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:27 PM
not showing up gains him nothing and only increases his chance of getting hurt.


he can't blackmail his way to a big contract

This.

He has nothing to gain by not showing up to camp. This is why people question his judgement.

If this was a smart idea, then why is he the only Franchised player not in camp?

Everyone else realizes holding out of TC is a stupid idea.

There are only 2 reasons he's holding out:

1. He's trying to show the Chiefs how much they need him, which is fucking retarded because A) they dont NEED him in TC, and B) being unprepared only hurts himself

2. He's being a lazy ass and since he doesn't HAVE to go, he isn't going. Which obvioulsy, once again, only hurts his cause.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:28 PM
They don't WANT to believe it.

But Pioli and company's history is that they do not pay market for players. They consider all of them interchangeable. They don't generally employ superstars outside of the quarterback. it's not the Patriot Way.

This fanciful tale that they want Bowe back and will pay market value for him is silly.

This is all a dance whereby they will try to score a free mid-round pick or two and keep up appearances, while at the same time letting another guy go who - like Carr, while a great player - they do not feel is essential to winning.

They didnt resign him before his franchise year like you would if you wanted to keep him on a long term deal.

They drafted his replacement.

Then they tried to trade him.

They're now grooming his replacement. What more do they have to telegraph?

Not really going to argue whether this is true of NE or not, but would ask, you think they (NE) are doing things wrong?

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:28 PM
And if the FO had reservations about his maturity I certainly don't blame them seeing how he's still holding out with nothing to gain.

He has nothing to gain by showing up.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:29 PM
He has nothing to gain by showing up.

Being in proper football shape and well versed in the offense be damned, huh?
After having held out of all Spring/Summer football activity he's going to come in, learn all he needs to know about the offense, and get into football shape in a week's time?

:facepalm:

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 02:29 PM
None of us know why the Chiefs and Bowe didn't get a deal done.


Occam's razor slashes Pioli's jugular.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:29 PM
What exactly is bullshit about it, other than you don't want to believe it?

It's been reported by numerous media outlets and guys from Schefter on down the line.

Numerous?

It was a small report reported by one dude, which was later shot down.

SPECULATION.

OTWP, why are you picking which speculative reports to believe and which not to?

At the end of the day, it's ALL speculation. You are being VERY one sided in this debate instead of being objectionable, which you seem to pride yourself on.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:30 PM
Being in proper football shape and well versed in the offense be damned, huh?

Who's to say he isn't in proper football shape and well versed in the offense? You think Daboll is reinventing how an offense works?

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:30 PM
He has nothing to gain by showing up.

I guess getting in shape and a little more familiar with his new coach isn't beneficial?

What does he have to gain by NOT showing up?

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:31 PM
Occam's razor slashes Pioli's jugular.

The simplest explanation is that Pioli just doesn't want to pay him.
Especially seeing how he's paid Hali, Flowers, Charles AND Johnson?

K.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Not really going to argue whether this is true of NE or not, but would ask, you think they (NE) are doing things wrong?

This is how Pioli does things. If he wants to manage the team this way, cutting Carr and Bowe loose (And maybe Albert next year), it's his job on the line. He will be judged on the team's overall results. Let's just not delude ourselves about what we signed up for here.

I just think its amazing that people keep drinking the koolaide when every signpost along the way says Bowe is being managed out.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Who's to say he isn't in proper football shape and well versed in the offense? You think Daboll is reinventing how an offense works?

Tell me how you get into football shape without playing football?
Don't worry, I'll wait...

BoneKrusher
08-07-2012, 02:32 PM
It's also apparent that the Chiefs are sending a bad message to one of their best players. They gave long-term deals to stars such as Charles, cornerback Brandon Flowers and linebackers Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali once they proved their worth. They should've done the same for Bowe as soon as he established his value. It's not like Kansas City doesn't have the money. It's consistently been way under the cap ever since Pioli's arrival in 2009.
yep..

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:32 PM
They don't WANT to believe it.

But Pioli and company's history is that they do not pay market for players. They consider all of them interchangeable. They don't generally employ superstars outside of the quarterback. it's not the Patriot Way.



What a load of BS. Complete Myth generated by the anti-Pioli propaganda machine.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:34 PM
Tell me how you get into football shape without playing football?
Don't worry, I'll wait...

No.

The better question is, what does Bowe have to gain by holding out?

I'm still waiting for that answer.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:34 PM
This is how Pioli does things. If he wants to manage the team this way, cutting Carr and Bowe loose (And maybe Albert next year), it's his job on the line. He will be judged on the team's overall results. Let's just not delude ourselves about what we signed up for here.

I just think its amazing that people keep drinking the koolaide when every signpost along the way says Bowe is being managed out.

Have you read "The War Room"? Doesn't sound like it.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:35 PM
Have you read "The War Room"? Doesn't sound like it.

They keep spouting regurgitated BS and act as if it were fact.

BoneKrusher
08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
He has nothing to gain by showing up.

true.
But Pioli has a lot to lose by not paying the man, Bowe's feathers have been ruffled especially after seeing Flowers, Hali and DJ get Paid.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
Tell me how you get into football shape without playing football?
Don't worry, I'll wait...

Dwayne Bowe has been playing football in the NFL for what, 4 years now? You think there's anything about it he hasn't figured out? He's been a top 10 receiver since he came into the league, I'm not worried about him. Worry about the idiot QB.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
No.

The better question is, what does Bowe have to gain by holding out?

I'm still waiting for that answer.

He avoids camp and injury.
That's the answer I've been given everytime we've had this discussion.

Thing is, he risks only injury once he signs the tender.
But even with an injury he'll be guaranteed the $9.5m they owe him.
If he gets hurt "staying in shape" away from St. Joe, he's hosed.

thabear04
08-07-2012, 02:37 PM
Bowe might have a Desean Jackson season. He hold out last year and look what he did compare to the years he played. Holding out only hurts you missing reps and trying to learn a new Offence

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:38 PM
Dwayne Bowe has been playing football in the NFL for what, 4 years now? You think there's anything about it he hasn't figured out? He's been a top 10 receiver since he came into the league, I'm not worried about him. Worry about the idiot QB.

We're not talking about his cognitive abilities Brock.
We're talking about how he can get into football shape without playing football.

Or have you forgotten that the SAME Dwayne Bowe came to camp 30 pounds heavy 3 years ago, took a diuretic to cut weight and was promptly slapped with a 4-game suspension?

You still haven't answered the question.
I'm a patient man though so whenever you're ready.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:38 PM
No.

The better question is, what does Bowe have to gain by holding out?

I'm still waiting for that answer.

You still haven't given a real, non-fanboy response to what Bowe gains by coming to training camp.

"He needs to learn da playbook and shake Daboll's hand" :drool:

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:39 PM
We're not talking about his cognitive abilities Brock.
We're talking about how he can get into football shape without playing football.

Or have you forgotten that the SAME Dwayne Bowe came to camp 30 pounds heavy 3 years ago, took a diuretic to cut weight and was promptly slapped with a 4-game suspension?

You still haven't answered the question...I'm a patient man though.
Whenever you're ready.

Oh yeah, Mr. Conditioning Todd Haley. That's somebody I'd listen to. He knows all about preseason preparation.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:40 PM
He avoids camp and injury.
That's the answer I've been given everytime we've had this discussion.

Thing is, he risks only injury once he signs the tender.
But even with an injury he'll be guaranteed the $9.5m they owe him.
If he gets hurt "staying in shape" away from St. Joe, he's hosed.

Exactly. It makes no sense.

And THIS is the type of questionable decision making the media refers to when talking about Bowe.

This kind of shit just doesn't help Bowe.

Does it hurt him? Maybe not. There's a good chance it doesn't affect him at all.

But you know what? It sure as fuck doesn't help him either. So why do it?

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:41 PM
Have you read "The War Room"? Doesn't sound like it.

This isn't rocket science. They have basically telegraphed the whole thing with Carr.

If you are behind Pioli this is what you signed up for. Embrace it. This is the culture they want. It's not right or wrong. The results on the field are all that matters.

They seem ok with trading Bowe for Baldwin like they were with trading Carr for Routt. We will see how these decisions work out.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 02:42 PM
Dwayne Bowe has been playing football in the NFL for what, 4 years now? You think there's anything about it he hasn't figured out? He's been a top 10 receiver since he came into the league, I'm not worried about him. Worry about the idiot QB.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Matt+Cassel+2012+Taco+Bell+Star+Legends+Celebrity+AqNt31rm7Kdl.jpg

Trade him.

Red Dawg
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Fuck him! He should have signed for his 9 mil and got to work with the team. He is really good but not in the class of Fitz, Johnson or Megatron. Once again we wouldn't care if we had a good QB that can win with out superstars. But no we don't so we definitely need Bowe to get here.

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
This isn't rocket science. They have basically telegraphed the whole thing with Carr.

If you are behind Pioli this is what you signed up for. Embrace it. This is the culture they want. It's not right or wrong. The results on the field are all that matters.

They seem ok with trading Bowe for Baldwin like they were with trading Carr for Routt. We will see how these decisions work out.

and Houston for Tamba except Tamba signed the deal.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
He avoids camp and injury.
That's the answer I've been given everytime we've had this discussion.

Thing is, he risks only injury once he signs the tender.
But even with an injury he'll be guaranteed the $9.5m they owe him.
If he gets hurt "staying in shape" away from St. Joe, he's hosed.

Sure he gets the $9.5M.

But he loses the opportunity (assuming semi-serious injury or worse) to show his worth on the field again.

He gets hurt playing a game? Fine.

He gets hurt in camp when it doesn't benefit him to be there?

Not worth the risk. It's a business, and some of you are acting as if this is high school football.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
This isn't rocket science. They have basically telegraphed the whole thing with Carr.

If you are behind Pioli this is what you signed up for. Embrace it. This is the culture they want. It's not right or wrong. The results on the field are all that matters.

They seem ok with trading Bowe for Baldwin like they were with trading Carr for Routt. We will see how these decisions work out.

I am not much of a Pioli fan actually.

Read "The War Room" though, it will give you some insight as to how these guys operate and its not really how its perceived.

I don't think position matters, I think attitude, work ethic, and dedication to football matter.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:44 PM
You still haven't given a real, non-fanboy response to what Bowe gains by coming to training camp.

"He needs to learn da playbook and shake Daboll's hand" :drool:

And you haven't given me a real reason why he shouldn't.

you just say, "oh he'll be fine"

Even though history suggests that TC hold outs routinely produce Injured and under performing players.

And let just pretend that Bowe has NEVER had weight management issues.

But no, there's no cause for concern what so ever.

I guess you think re-familiarizing yourself with your teammates, playbook and football in general means nothing. You think these guys just show up game ready.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:44 PM
Oh yeah, Mr. Conditioning Todd Haley. That's somebody I'd listen to. He knows all about preseason preparation.

Because Todd Haley still coaches in Kansas City?

Still waiting on that answer...

The Franchise
08-07-2012, 02:44 PM
They don't WANT to believe it.

But Pioli and company's history is that they do not pay market for players. They consider all of them interchangeable. They don't generally employ superstars outside of the quarterback. it's not the Patriot Way.

This fanciful tale that they want Bowe back and will pay market value for him is silly.

This is all a dance whereby they will try to score a free mid-round pick or two and keep up appearances, while at the same time letting another guy go who - like Carr, while a great player - they do not feel is essential to winning.

They didnt resign him before his franchise year like you would if you wanted to keep him on a long term deal.

They drafted his replacement.

Then they tried to trade him.

They're now grooming his replacement. What more do they have to telegraph?

So....he's already failed then.

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:44 PM
Bowe doesn't need to show shit. He could hold out the whole fucking year and some other team would still want to swoop in and sign him up.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:45 PM
Because Todd Haley still coaches in Kansas City?

Still waiting on that answer...

You brought it up.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:46 PM
Bowe doesn't need to show shit. He could hold out the whole ****ing year and some other team would still want to swoop in and sign him up.

Odd then that nobody has swooped in to trade for him. If KC is asking too much in trade then they obviously aren't motivated to deal him are they?

TEX
08-07-2012, 02:47 PM
This isn't rocket science. They have basically telegraphed the whole thing with Carr.

If you are behind Pioli this is what you signed up for. Embrace it. This is the culture they want. It's not right or wrong. The results on the field are all that matters.

They seem ok with trading Bowe for Baldwin like they were with trading Carr for Routt. We will see how these decisions work out.

I hear ya. Would be easier to swallow though had the Chiefs actually won SOMETHING ...New England has.

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Odd then that nobody has swooped in to trade for him. If KC is asking too much in trade then they obviously aren't motivated to deal him are they?

If teams time and time again are willing to give T.O a chance then some team will be willing to give Bowe a shot.

I asked this earlier and got nothing. Where did the trade talk come from? Did somebody hear it from a friend of a cousin of Pioli's neighbor then it became CP lore or was it real?

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:49 PM
And you haven't given me a real reason why he shouldn't.

you just say, "oh he'll be fine"

Even though history suggests that TC hold outs routinely produce Injured and under performing players.

And let just pretend that Bowe has NEVER had weight management issues.

But no, there's no cause for concern what so ever.

I guess you think re-familiarizing yourself with your teammates, playbook and football in general means nothing. You think these guys just show up game ready.

Yeah, Bowe always shows up out of shape year after year, putting up 1000 yard seasons year after year with the same old garbage at QB.

If the team was worried about Bowe getting injured, they should have made sure he was going to be here.

Also, I don't buy into fanboy bullshit about team chemistry and "football shape". That's for rubes.

LOCOChief
08-07-2012, 02:49 PM
You think Daboll is reinventing how an offense works?

As far as Bowes concerned Dabolls offence will Greek to him. His absence won't go unnoticed by other GM's either.

And no way is he in football shape, can't be.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:49 PM
If teams time and time again are willing to give T.O a chance then some team will be willing to give Bowe a shot.

I asked this earlier and got nothing. Where did the trade talk come from? Did somebody hear it from a friend of a cousin of Pioli's neighbor then it became CP lore or was it real?

I am not talking about during the draft necessarily.

If KC doesn't want to keep Bowe, wouldn't they trade him?

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:50 PM
and Houston for Tamba except Tamba signed the deal.

Some guys will stay at a discount, or for the system. Hali is probably a guy with a lot of character who buys in heavily. I'm not saying Bowe has low character at all - just that given Hali's background he might have priorities beyond making the most money possible. That is probably another factor in why he got paid and Bowe isn't going to.

But Hali is a pass rusher and that is the #2 premium position in the NFL. Those guys rarely get away from anyone.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:51 PM
Sure he gets the $9.5M.

But he loses the opportunity (assuming semi-serious injury or worse) to show his worth on the field again.

He gets hurt playing a game? Fine.

He gets hurt in camp when it doesn't benefit him to be there?

Not worth the risk. It's a business, and some of you are acting as if this is high school football.

Is it safe to assume that he's done something to keep himself in shape the last 4 months?

Is it also safe to assume that he could've sustained an injury doing said work?

How much more screwed would he be to sustain an injury before he ever signs the tender?

If that were to happen (indulge that idea just for the sake of argument), he'll lose the $9.5m AND the chance to have an impressive season in a contract year.

That, in your mind, is the best idea?

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:51 PM
As far as Bowes concerned Dabolls offence will Greek to him. His absence won't go unnoticed by other GM's either.

And no way is he in football shape, can't be.

If you think Daboll's offense is going to be some complicated Al Saunders deal, you're in for a big surprise.

"football shape" ROFL What's that going to take for an elite athlete like Bowe, 2 days of practice?

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:51 PM
It's a business, and some of you are acting as if this is high school football.

uh...no. We're acting as if this were a business.

A good business deciscion would be to create the best possible Bowe ever, knowing that the entire 2012 season is a showcase to get paid.

You think skipping TC and not being in the best possible condition is the best way to create the best Bowe ever?

It all comes back to the same question: WTF does holding out benefit Bowe?

Bottom line is, it doesn't.

If Bowe dedicates himself to the team and comes out looking like a team player, in the best shape he can be in, with the best possible understanding of the playbook, and goes into beast mode, then he very well could get the top dollar that he might be looking for.

If he decides not to show till week 1, (which already has pundits scratching their head as to how that benefits him) and pulls a hammy in game 1, does that help him make more money?

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:51 PM
Odd then that nobody has swooped in to trade for him. If KC is asking too much in trade then they obviously aren't motivated to deal him are they?

As I pointed out the other day, teams aren't willing to give up R1 picks for players anymore. They are too valuable with the new CBA.

Teams are going to give up picks to acquire better picks, but that's it.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:52 PM
You brought it up.

I brought up the fact that he's been out of shape coming into camp before.
So the idea that he'll have his football legs under him in one week seems pretty silly.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:52 PM
I hear ya. Would be easier to swallow though had the Chiefs actually won SOMETHING though...New England has.

As far as I can tell, the only two reasons the Patriot way has succeeded are named Brady and Belichick, and neither of them are coming to KC.

LOCOChief
08-07-2012, 02:53 PM
If you think Daboll's offense is going to be some complicated Al Saunders deal, you're in for a big surprise.

"football shape" ROFL What's that going to take for an elite athlete like Bowe, 2 days of practice?

GD you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. :)

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:53 PM
uh...no. We're acting as if this were a business.

A good business deciscion would be to create the best possible Bowe ever, knowing that the entire 2012 season is a showcase to get paid.

You think skipping TC and not being in the best possible condition is the best way to create the best Bowe ever?

It all comes back to the same question: WTF does holding out benefit Bowe?

Bottom line is, it doesn't.

If Bowe dedicates himself to the team and comes out looking like a team player, in the best shape he can be in, with the best possible understanding of the playbook, and goes into beast mode, then he very well could get the top dollar that he might be looking for.

If he decides not to show till week 1, (which already has pundits scratching their head as to how that benefits him) and pulls a hammy in game 1, does that help him make more money?

That's the worst possible scenario.
Because then he's up a creek with the Chiefs AND with the rest of the league.
He'll still get a deal, but nothing at all like the one he desires.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:54 PM
I brought up the fact that he's been out of shape coming into camp before.
So the idea that he'll have his football legs under him in one week seems pretty silly.

That was according to Todd Haley. He thought all the players were out of shape.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:54 PM
Yeah, Bowe always shows up out of shape year after year, putting up 1000 yard seasons year after year with the same old garbage at QB.

If the team was worried about Bowe getting injured, they should have made sure he was going to be here.

Also, I don't buy into fanboy bullshit about team chemistry and "football shape". That's for rubes.

Lol. You don't buy into team chemistry and being conditioned for football?

Wow.

You watch teams implode every year from bad chemistry and we see players who miss TC only to get injured every season as well.

But im sure that's all Myth.

Fuck, by your logic, why even have TC?

Lets just start the games already?

And what's with the fanboy shit?

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 02:54 PM
As I pointed out the other day, teams aren't willing to give up R1 picks for players anymore. They are too valuable with the new CBA.

Teams are going to give up picks to acquire better picks, but that's it.

I agree, but if the cost is unreasonable then like I said, we must not really be trying to deal him.

I know it's not a popular stand but I don't think Bowe has that much leverage here. He wants that $9.5MM.

Something I don't get - Who's idea was it to make it where you can't sign Franchised players to a long term deal after a certain date until after the season? I dont see how that benefited anyone.

stevieray
08-07-2012, 02:54 PM
...not cool with the way he's treated? The Chiefs drafted him...have already given him a shit ton of money, are willing to give him nine milion damn dollars to play football...and what? he needs his ass kissed and patted on the head?

..if so, then he is a diva, and I couldn't care less.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:55 PM
GD you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. :)

I'm not the guy who doesn't understand that NFL offenses are all 99 percent the same. Let me know when you've seen enough of it to recognize that.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:56 PM
I'm not the guy who doesn't understand that NFL offenses are all 99 percent the same. Let me know when you've seen enough of it to recognize that.

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.

durtyrute
08-07-2012, 02:56 PM
I am not talking about during the draft necessarily.

If KC doesn't want to keep Bowe, wouldn't they trade him?

I think they do want him, but are fine with letting him go. It seems they drafted Baldwin for this exact situation. Same thing with Routt/Carr and Houston/Hali.

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:56 PM
If you think Daboll's offense is going to be some complicated Al Saunders deal, you're in for a big surprise.

They've been installing the offense since the Spring.
There's a reason for that.

There's more than one version of the Erhardt-Perkins system.

"football shape" ROFL What's that going to take for an elite athlete like Bowe, 2 days of practice?

Sure took him 2 days in 2009.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 02:57 PM
Someone should photoshop this to show Bowe flying and Pioli chasing after him with a contract

http://i47.tinypic.com/2vx28gj.jpg

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 02:57 PM
If you think Daboll's offense is going to be some complicated Al Saunders deal, you're in for a big surprise.

"football shape" ROFL What's that going to take for an elite athlete like Bowe, 2 days of practice?

It amazes me how fucking stupid some people act.

Only in KC are 5 years of production ignored, making THIS the year that will be his make or break season. And he's throwing it all away by sitting out 2 weeks of camp. Holy fucking hysteria.


Dude's getting paid in 2013. It just likely won't be by KC.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 02:58 PM
As far as I can tell, the only two reasons the Patriot way has succeeded are named Brady and Belichick, and neither of them are coming to KC.

Finally. The light has been seen. There IS NO "Patriot Way". Period.

There is a great Coach and a great QB( Oooh! a combination NEVAR BEFORE SEN IN TEH NFL!!!:facepalm:)

Micjones
08-07-2012, 02:58 PM
That was according to Todd Haley. He thought all the players were out of shape.

If the opening 3 games of last season don't tell you everything you need to know about the importance of being well conditioned to start the year...I don't know what else to say.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 02:59 PM
In all honesty i expect Bowe to report to camp after preseason game 3 and everything will be fine.

We're all arguing hypotheticals any damn way.

But some of these hypothetical situations clearly aren't based on Logic.

Brock
08-07-2012, 02:59 PM
Lol. You don't buy into team chemistry and being conditioned for football?

Wow.

You watch teams implode every year from bad chemistry and we see players who miss TC only to get injured every season as well.

But im sure that's all Myth.

Fuck, by your logic, why even have TC?

Lets just start the games already?

And what's with the fanboy shit?

I don't see teams implode because of bad chemistry. I see teams implode because of bad coaching and because they simply aren't as good as others. Go sell that good little soldier crap somewhere else. These players are elite athletes whose only job is to stay in shape. You seem to think there's some kind of magic in running around in helmets and shorts. There isn't.

Bottom line, Bowe has ZERO to gain by dancing.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:00 PM
It amazes me how ****ing stupid some people act.

Only in KC are 5 years of production ignored, making THIS the year that will be his make or break season. And he's throwing it all away by sitting out 2 weeks of camp. Holy ****ing hysteria.


Dude's getting paid in 2013. It just likely won't be by KC.

Who said he wouldn't get paid? WHO?

We're saying he stands to make MORE money if he puts together another season like 2010 pr better.

Do you disagree?

Brock
08-07-2012, 03:00 PM
If the opening 3 games of last season don't tell you everything you need to know about the importance of being well conditioned to start the year...I don't know what else to say.

You're blaming that on lack of conditioning? LOL

DeezNutz
08-07-2012, 03:01 PM
If the opening 3 games of last season don't tell you everything you need to know about the importance of being well conditioned to start the year...I don't know what else to say.

Why didn't Haley, our own personal Richard Simmons, understand this? Too busy bragging about the previous collective 477 lbs that the team had lost?

Micjones
08-07-2012, 03:01 PM
It amazes me how ****ing stupid some people act.

Only in KC are 5 years of production ignored, making THIS the year that will be his make or break season. And he's throwing it all away by sitting out 2 weeks of camp. Holy ****ing hysteria.


Dude's getting paid in 2013. It just likely won't be by KC.

Yes. Let's ignore the process because he's had success in the past.
Not like training camp was in any way beneficial to past success.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 03:02 PM
Who said he wouldn't get paid? WHO?

We're saying he stands to make MORE money if he puts together another season like 2010 pr better.

Do you disagree?

They way he could lose the most money of all is to report to camp and have some scrub battling for the last job on the practice squad roll up on his leg.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 03:02 PM
I agree, but if the cost is unreasonable then like I said, we must not really be trying to deal him.

I know it's not a popular stand but I don't think Bowe has that much leverage here. He wants that $9.5MM.

Something I don't get - Who's idea was it to make it where you can't sign Franchised players to a long term deal after a certain date until after the season? I dont see how that benefited anyone.

Last things first - I don't know. Pretty stupid by the NFLPA to agree to that.

Second - he can still get a shade under half of that $9.5M by sitting out until Week 10. To some players, that $4M isn't worth backing off their stance.

Personally, I think he'll report in the next two weeks. But I wouldn't be shocked at all if he drug this out.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 03:03 PM
Why didn't Haley, our own personal Richard Simmons, understand this? Too busy bragging about the previous collective 477 lbs that the team had lost?

LMAO

A: He was "Sweatin' to Pioli".

Micjones
08-07-2012, 03:03 PM
You're blaming that on lack of conditioning? LOL

Haley's soft approach had nothing at all to do with the abuse they took to start the year.
:rolleyes:

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I don't see teams implode because of bad chemistry. I see teams implode because of bad coaching and because they simply aren't as good as others. Go sell that good little soldier crap somewhere else. These players are elite athletes whose only job is to stay in shape. You seem to think there's some kind of magic in running around in helmets and shorts. There isn't.

Bottom line, Bowe has ZERO to gain by dancing.

So you think 1 month of TC is = to 1 month of individual workouts? Just because it's their only job, you think they all do it? And you think they all do it to the degree in which it's done in TC?

You keep piping that he has zero to gain. I guess 1 month of rigorous TC workouts and conditioning couldn't POSSIBLY be better than just working out in a gym right?

And you still have yet to tell me what he has to gain by holding out.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 03:04 PM
Yes. Let's ignore the process .

I agree; enough of Pioli's "process".

Brock
08-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Haley's soft approach had nothing at all to do with the abuse they took to start the year.
:rolleyes:

What? You brought up "conditioning". Todd Haley overemphasized conditioning, and last year was no exception.

Brock
08-07-2012, 03:08 PM
So you think 1 month of TC is = to 1 month of individual workouts? Just because it's their only job, you think they all do it? And you think they all do it to the degree in which it's done in TC?

You keep piping that he has zero to gain. I guess 1 month of rigorous TC workouts and conditioning couldn't POSSIBLY be better than just working out in a gym right?

And you still have yet to tell me what he has to gain by holding out.

What he gains is not having to go to training camp, as if that wasn't obvious.

Dwayne Bowe obviously knows how to play in the NFL. Find something else to bitch about.

Quesadilla Joe
08-07-2012, 03:09 PM
Does anyone think Bowe has been offered market value? Anyone?

I don't. It seems like the only players that get signed by the Chiefs are the ones that are willing to sign team friendly deals. I still can't believe Jamaal Charles signed the contract Pioli offered him. Charles could have easily gotten twice as much money in the open market.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 03:10 PM
I don't. It seems like the only players that get signed by the Chiefs are the ones that are willing to sign team friendly deals. I still can't believe Jamaal Charles signed the contract Pioli offered him. Charles could have easily gotten twice as much money in the open market.

For once, I completely agree with you.

Titty Meat
08-07-2012, 03:12 PM
We're not talking about his cognitive abilities Brock.
We're talking about how he can get into football shape without playing football.

Or have you forgotten that the SAME Dwayne Bowe came to camp 30 pounds heavy 3 years ago, took a diuretic to cut weight and was promptly slapped with a 4-game suspension?

You still haven't answered the question.
I'm a patient man though so whenever you're ready.

The same Dwayne Bowe who was 30 pounds overweight and still led the team in receptions and only had 1 less touchdown that year than in 2011?

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:13 PM
What he gains is not having to go to training camp, as if that wasn't obvious.

Dwayne Bowe obviously knows how to play in the NFL. Find something else to bitch about.

Lol? Bitching? Please.....I guess having a discussion is now bitching....nice.


So you claim "What he gains is not having to go to training camp"

So does that answer any questions about his work ethic, which the media has pounded to death?

You think that people once again raising questions about his work ethic is somehow beneficial to him getting the contract (From whomever) that he desires?

What would put Bowe in a better light with the rest of the league (which will ultimately earn him more money)? Showing up and being a "good soldier" or not going to TC because he doesn't feel like it?

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't. It seems like the only players that get signed by the Chiefs are the ones that are willing to sign team friendly deals. I still can't believe Jamaal Charles signed the contract Pioli offered him. Charles could have easily gotten twice as much money in the open market.

Chiefs players are worth BIG money. You remember that.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Yep, Charles is explained by the fact that he signed at a hefty discount. At the time he looked like one of the league's better backs and they signed him for about $6 million a year with not much guaranteed cash.

IIRC he still had a few years left on his prior contract. That's what Pioli would do with a player he intended to re-sign. Do it early, before franchise/free agency, so you can get a discount.

Letting a player near free agency before trying to resign him vaporizes money and negotiates from a position of weakness.

Pioli isnt stupid.

Titty Meat
08-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Hey guys don't tell Mic this but Dwayne Bowe missed some camp as a rookie and still was 5 yards short from 1,000 yard receiving.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Lol? Bitching? Please.....I guess having a discussion is now bitching....nice.


So you claim "What he gains is not having to go to training camp"

So does that answer any questions about his work ethic, which the media has pounded to death?

You think that people once again raising questions about his work ethic is somehow beneficial to him getting the contract (From whomever) that he desires?

What would put Bowe in a better light with the rest of the league (which will ultimately earn him more money)? Showing up and being a "good soldier" or not going to TC because he doesn't feel like it?

Do you think that NFL teams give out contracts based on what the media reports?

It's not like he's pulling a Revis or MJD and sitting out with multiple years left on his deal.

Nearly every player in his position has done the same thing.

Christ, Vincent Jackson sat out until Week 10, and it didn't affect him one bit.

Other teams are not going to undervalue him because he sat out two weeks of TC after being tagged.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-07-2012, 03:18 PM
Yep, Charles is explained by the fact that he signed at a hefty discount. At the time he looked like one of the league's better backs and they signed him for about $6 million a year with not much guaranteed cash.

IIRC he still had a few years left on his prior contract. That's what Pioli would do with a player he intended to re-sign. Do it early, before franchise/free agency, so you can get a discount.

Letting a player near free agency before trying to resign him vaporizes money and negotiates from a position of weakness.

Pioli isnt stupid.

He may not be stupid, but his choices in the talent department are highly questionable.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:19 PM
Yep, Charles is explained by the fact that he signed at a hefty discount. At the time he looked like one of the league's better backs and they signed him for about $6 million a year with not much guaranteed cash.

IIRC he still had a few years left on his prior contract. That's what Pioli would do with a player he intended to re-sign. Do it early, before franchise/free agency, so you can get a discount.

Letting a player near free agency before trying to resign him vaporizes money and negotiates from a position of weakness.

Pioli isnt stupid.

Why Charles signed for such a low price is beyond me. But it's not Pioli's fault that Charles took such a hefty discount.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 03:19 PM
Yep, Charles is explained by the fact that he signed at a hefty discount. At the time he looked like one of the league's better backs and they signed him for about $6 million a year with not much guaranteed cash.

IIRC he still had a few years left on his prior contract. That's what Pioli would do with a player he intended to re-sign. Do it early, before franchise/free agency, so you can get a discount.

Letting a player near free agency before trying to resign him vaporizes money and negotiates from a position of weakness.

Pioli isnt stupid.

I was with you until the end.

:D

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 03:22 PM
Why Charles signed for such a low price is beyond me. But it's not Pioli's fault that Charles took such a hefty discount.

Charles made the safe play. Instead of pressing his luck he made $30 million. What would have happened if he had waiting trying to maximize his deal and say... Tore his ACL?

It's like solving the puzzle instead of spinning the wheel 5 more times when there are two bankrupts and a lose a turn out there.

What Charles got in exchange for taking less money was safety.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Do you think that NFL teams give out contracts based on what the media reports?

It's not like he's pulling a Revis or MJD and sitting out with multiple years left on his deal.

Nearly every player in his position has done the same thing.

Christ, Vincent Jackson sat out until Week 10, and it didn't affect him one bit.

Other teams are not going to undervalue him because he sat out two weeks of TC after being tagged.

Vincent Jackson, following his 10 week holdout, played a full season under the tag and went to camp. Don't act like he got 50 million after coming off a season only playing 6 games. Oh, and he pulled a hammy after coming off that 10 week hiatus, btw.

So that hold out, didn't do anything for him but get him tagged again the following season.

And im not necessarily saying it WILL hurt him. It might hurt him, it might not. My entire argument is, will it HELP him?

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 03:25 PM
Vincent Jackson, following his 10 week holdout, played a full season under the tag and went to camp. Don't act like he got 50 million after coming off a season only playing 6 games. Oh, and he pulled a hammy after coming off that 10 week hiatus, btw.

So that hold out, didn't do anything for him but get him tagged again the following season.


And then he went right out and got paid $11 million a season by Tampa Bay.

OnTheWarpath15
08-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Vincent Jackson, following his 10 week holdout, played a full season under the tag and went to camp. Don't act like he got 50 million after coming off a season only playing 6 games. Oh, and he pulled a hammy after coming off that 10 week hiatus, btw.

So that hold out, didn't do anything for him but get him tagged again the following season.

And im not necessarily saying it WILL hurt him. It might hurt him, it might not. My entire argument is, will it HELP him?

They had no one else to use the tag on.

That's not the case here. Unless they find a way to get Albert signed.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 03:30 PM
And then he went right out and got paid $11 million a season by Tampa Bay.

Which by the way makes the argument that Bowe isn't worth $10 million per look silly. Bowe is two years younger than Jackson and has better numbers.

Nightfyre
08-07-2012, 03:32 PM
I haven't read all the bullshit responses, but this is what I will say RE: the article.

The whole point of holding out is moot at this point. Bowe is doing it simply because he can and it is hurting his level of preparedness as well as the team. That does not exemplify the mature, wise teammate the author portrays. Furthermore, the Chiefs are not currently making a mistake because all they can do now is wait until he signs the tender. If a mistake was made, it was during the negotiations and which side erred is pure speculative bullshit at this point. So really, the only person currently making a mistake is Bowe, by appearing lazy and unmotivated.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:35 PM
And then he went right out and got paid $11 million a season by Tampa Bay.

Yeah, after not sitting out, reporting to TC and putting together a solid season.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 03:37 PM
Which by the way makes the argument that Bowe isn't worth $10 million per look silly. Bowe is two years younger than Jackson and has better numbers.

Anyone who thinks Bowe isn't worth 10m per season is just being silly. And I doubt the Chiefs Don't think Bowe is worth 10m per season.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 03:41 PM
LOL yall are really retarded. He deserves $12.5M, how much guaranteed I have no idea.

Valiant
08-07-2012, 03:57 PM
and why would they do that?


1. They don't believing in paying big for WRs
2. They specifically don't want to pay Bowe for some reason we don't know of
3. Hunt doesn't want to fork out that kind of money



despite what some people believe, Pioli doesn't want to lose so there needs to be some REASON for having no intention of signing him.

Of course there is no intention, but you need the facade to appear your trying to sign him and fill the seats.

CoMoChief
08-07-2012, 03:57 PM
The theory that has been suggested in some circles is that the Chiefs want to rent Bowe for a year instead of committing to him long-term. The thinking there is that he'd been such a knucklehead in his early years -- inflated ego, shaky work ethic, stupid comments to the media -- that there's no telling how he'd behave with a hefty raise. The reality is that the old Bowe vanished years ago. In his place is a wiser, steadier veteran who rarely even talks to reporters.


Seriously where do people get this info? He had one minor incident about the whole "black book" on other teammates having booty calls around other NFL cities. That happens with every team in every pro sport.

truth is he's worked his ass off other than 2009 where he came in "overweight" and didn't get approval from Haley's "bullshit conditioning" test. And he's played on dog shit teams w/ dogshit QB's getting him the ball. IMO he deserves every penny.

qabbaan
08-07-2012, 04:01 PM
The theory that has been suggested in some circles is that the Chiefs want to rent Bowe for a year instead of committing to him long-term. The thinking there is that he'd been such a knucklehead in his early years -- inflated ego, shaky work ethic, stupid comments to the media -- that there's no telling how he'd behave with a hefty raise. The reality is that the old Bowe vanished years ago. In his place is a wiser, steadier veteran who rarely even talks to reporters.


Seriously where do people get this info? He had one minor incident about the whole "black book" on other teammates having booty calls around other NFL cities. That happens with every team in every pro sport.

He is "a young man At Risk"...

O.city
08-07-2012, 04:02 PM
While I do agree with you guys, we have no idea what has gone on behind closed doors.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 04:05 PM
While I do agree with you guys, we have no idea what has gone on behind closed doors.

No, no ,no, everyone here knows exactly what has been offered and what Bowe wants and what the difference is and its huge.

Of course nobody is willing to give up that info though. Its a secret everyone knows, don't you know?

Or do you know but you want to see what we know?

I see.................you aren't going to pull that one on me.

jspchief
08-07-2012, 04:29 PM
I find it really hard to believe that if Bowe is only asking for 10 million per that the Chiefs would rather pay the 9 million for 1 year.
Really? You don't see the advantage the FO gains by not commiting to a long term deal?

It's not about saving 1m. It's about not making the financial commitment of multiple years.

O.city
08-07-2012, 04:30 PM
Do Chadiha and Pioli not get along?

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 04:33 PM
He has nothing to gain by showing up.


yes, he does


If he wants a big contract from somebody next year then he needs to be healthy and perform well this year.

Holding out lowers his ability to do both and reduces his chance for bigger money next year.

The only thing Bowe gains by holding out is avoiding practice and trying to piss the Chiefs off.

Now if Bowe is saying 'fuck you, i want out' then he should hold out to week 10 and then coast the final 6 games.

But holding out does nothing positive for Bowe or the Chiefs.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Do Chadiha and Pioli not get along?

Chadiha is just a journalist committed to the truth.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 04:39 PM
yes, he does


If he wants a big contract from somebody next year then he needs to be healthy and perform well this year.

Holding out lowers his ability to do both and reduces his chance for bigger money next year.

The only thing Bowe gains by holding out is avoiding practice and trying to piss the Chiefs off.

Now if Bowe is saying '**** you, i want out' then he should hold out to week 10 and then coast the final 6 games.

But holding out does nothing positive for Bowe or the Chiefs.

Vincent Jackson says "Hiya!"

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 04:40 PM
Vincent Jackson says "Hiya!"

Vincent Jackson says nothing. Or did you completely miss my post?

Seems like people completely forgot a full season....

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 04:42 PM
Vincent Jackson says "Hiya!"

VJ didn't get a mega deal. I would imagine he lost $ in the end compared to just signing and playing.

He also didn't have a $9.5MM tag.

Fish
08-07-2012, 04:43 PM
yes, he does


If he wants a big contract from somebody next year then he needs to be healthy and perform well this year.

Holding out lowers his ability to do both and reduces his chance for bigger money next year.

The only thing Bowe gains by holding out is avoiding practice and trying to piss the Chiefs off.

Now if Bowe is saying 'fuck you, i want out' then he should hold out to week 10 and then coast the final 6 games.

But holding out does nothing positive for Bowe or the Chiefs.

Bowe has already put up numbers comparable to the best WRs in the league. He's done it consistently. He's done it amidst multiple shitty QBs and OCs. He's played in all but 5 games in his career. He's shown more than enough to establish his talent and abilities. It's not like his worth would hinge on this season.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 04:48 PM
Bowe has already put up numbers comparable to the best WRs in the league. He's done it consistently. He's done it amidst multiple shitty QBs and OCs. He's played in all but 5 games in his career. He's shown more than enough to establish his talent and abilities. It's not like his worth would hinge on this season.

Bowe is a fringe elite WR. This season could in fact make him millions more. Another showing like 2010 would garner a ton more interest. To date, Bowe has produced 1 great season and several good season. I don't agree that a bad season will hurt him too much, but TWO great seasons on his resume can make him more money.

So once again, does avoiding TC HELP Dwayne Bowe? If not, then he is making a poor choice, which just reinforces a stereotype that he is a player that makes poor choices.

Does reinforcing that stereotype help Bowe make more money?

Nightfyre
08-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Plus we can franchise him again next year. Sucks to be him.

O.city
08-07-2012, 04:50 PM
Pioli better be working on signing Albert.

Ming the Merciless
08-07-2012, 04:51 PM
What mistake? What can we do now? We can't even negotiate......how can we be 'making' a mistake (present tense)....

We either made a mistake by not renegotiating him into a long term contract BEFORE the deadline... or he rejected whatever offer we made, and now has to live with the tag...

We cant do anything different now, so how can this chump say we are 'making' a mistake...?

Where was this chump BEFORE the deadline to say what we should do? Why would he write this speculative drivel on AUgust 7th when the deadline was in July...?

Dumb

Fish
08-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Bowe is a fringe elite WR. This season could in fact make him millions more. Another showing like 2010 would garner a ton more interest. To date, Bowe has produced 1 great season and several good season. I don't agree that a bad season will hurt him too much, but TWO great seasons on his resume can make him more money.

So once again, does avoiding TC HELP Dwayne Bowe? If not, then he is making a poor choice, which just reinforces a stereotype that he is a player that makes poor choices.

Does reinforcing that stereotype help Bowe make more money?

Players holding out for better contracts aren't really frowned upon that much though. It's a pretty popular practice.

Nightfyre
08-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Players holding out for better contracts aren't really frowned upon that much though. It's a pretty popular practice.

Not under the new CBA. Do some research.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 04:54 PM
VJ didn't get a mega deal. I would imagine he lost $ in the end compared to just signing and playing.

He also didn't have a $9.5MM tag.

True. But his deal wasn't bad. $11M? That's pretty darn good. More than Andre Johnson.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 04:56 PM
Players holding out for better contracts aren't really frowned upon that much though. It's a pretty popular practice.

It was before this CBA, yeah. Not anymore. How many franchise tagged players are holding out right now?

1. Bowe.

With the new CBA, it doesn't make sense for a tagged player to hold out since they can't negotiate a new contract anyway.

And it still doesn't answer the question of how sitting out is going to help him.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 04:58 PM
True. But his deal wasn't bad. $11M? That's pretty darn good. More than Andre Johnson.

And it still doesn't reflect Bowe's current situation.

Bowe is going to get paid at some point. It's a matter of is he making the right choices to maximize his value?

Is he making the right "Business decisions"?

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 04:59 PM
And it still doesn't reflect Bowe's current situation.

Bowe is going to get paid at some point. It's a matter of is he making the right choices to maximize his value?

Is he making the right "Business decisions"?

He's just doing what Vincent Jackson did.

Which is why I think he holds out into the regular season.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:00 PM
He's just doing what Vincent Jackson did.

Which is why I think he holds out into the regular season.

JFC, how many times do i have say it, THEIR SITUATIONS WERE/ARE NOT COMPARABLE FFS.

Is Bowe an RFA playing for 500K?

No. So Knock the shit off.

You know what Jackson did when he got tagged? He went to TC and played a full season.

Nightfyre
08-07-2012, 05:03 PM
He's just doing what Vincent Jackson did.

Which is why I think he holds out into the regular season.

There's a major fucking difference between what VJax did and what Bowe is doing you ignoramous. The changes in the CBA prevent Bowe from signing a long-term deal until after the season. VJax was holding out for a trade. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Ming the Merciless
08-07-2012, 05:04 PM
JFC, how many times do i have say it, THEIR SITUATIONS WERE/ARE NOT COMPARABLE FFS.

Is Bowe an RFA playing for 500K?

No. So Knock the shit off.

You know what Jackson did when he got tagged? He went to TC and played a full season.

fucking OWNED

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MIaK3hEJiX0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 05:05 PM
And it still doesn't reflect Bowe's current situation.

Bowe is going to get paid at some point. It's a matter of is he making the right choices to maximize his value?

Is he making the right "Business decisions"?

So essentially he could have gotten a new deal before that July deadline? But now he has to wait until the end of the season for that now?

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 05:05 PM
There's a major fucking difference between what VJax did and what Bowe is doing you ignoramous. The changes in the CBA prevent Bowe from signing a long-term deal until after the season. VJax was holding out for a trade. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

I'll admit to being wrong this once.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:06 PM
There's a major ****ing difference between what VJax did and what Bowe is doing you ignoramous. The changes in the CBA prevent Bowe from signing a long-term deal until after the season. VJax was holding out for a trade. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Vjax was Tagged as a RFA, the Chargers began docking his pay and Vjax was set to make 500K over the course of the SEASON.

Bowe is set to make more than that in a SINGLE GAME CHECK.

And then, the following season when he got the Franchise Tag, he signed it, got his ass in camp and played a full goddamn season.

Fuck people, get this through your heads. Their situations are NOT comparable.

Fish
08-07-2012, 05:06 PM
It was before this CBA, yeah. Not anymore. How many franchise tagged players are holding out right now?

1. Bowe.

With the new CBA, it doesn't make sense for a tagged player to hold out since they can't negotiate a new contract anyway.

And it still doesn't answer the question of how sitting out is going to help him.

Sitting out is going to help him voice his displeasure over the lack of a contract before the deadline. That's his right and he's exercising it. It doesn't have to make sense. Professional athletes rarely make sense. It's possible that Bowe feels like getting his point across is more important than playing Dwayne Goodie Two Shoes for suitors. That's his decision to make.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:07 PM
So essentially he could have gotten a new deal before that July deadline? But now he has to wait until the end of the season for that now?

Yes.

Sitting out CAN'T force the Chiefs to pay him more this season, even if they wanted to.

Nightfyre
08-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Sitting out is going to help him voice his displeasure over the lack of a contract before the deadline. That's his right and he's exercising it. It doesn't have to make sense. Professional athletes rarely make sense. It's possible that Bowe feels like getting his point across is more important than playing Dwayne Goodie Two Shoes for suitors. That's his decision to make.


Sure, but don't sit here and pretend Bowe is some reformed ultra-zen-veteran who does the right thing. Because signing the tender and practicing with your team is the right thing to do here.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:09 PM
Sitting out is going to help him voice his displeasure over the lack of a contract before the deadline. That's his right and he's exercising it. It doesn't have to make sense. Professional athletes rarely make sense. It's possible that Bowe feels like getting his point across is more important than playing Dwayne Goodie Two Shoes for suitors. That's his decision to make.

And what is voicing his displeasure going to do for him?

Is that going to change his value any?

So ultimately, Bowe is not helping Bowe.

So it's not a smart choice.

So he should get his ass in camp.

Bottom line.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 05:09 PM
Bowe has already put up numbers comparable to the best WRs in the league. He's done it consistently. He's done it amidst multiple shitty QBs and OCs. He's played in all but 5 games in his career. He's shown more than enough to establish his talent and abilities. It's not like his worth would hinge on this season.
yea, so much so that people were just lining up to trade for him.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:09 PM
Sure, but don't sit here and pretend Bowe is some reformed ultra-zen-veteran who does the right thing. Because signing the tender and practicing with your team is the right thing to do here.

This.

Why are people fighting it so much?

Oh, i know. Because everything is the Chiefs fault.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 05:11 PM
Yes.

Sitting out CAN'T force the Chiefs to pay him more this season, even if they wanted to.

:hmmm: I still want him to get paid...

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 05:12 PM
btw we are getting soooooooooo far ahead of the situation.

If Bowe only sits out 2 preseason games it's not that big of a deal. It hurts his ability to learn the offense some but he should be ok.

chances are this is nothing but a veteran avoiding training camp practices

Fish
08-07-2012, 05:13 PM
Sure, but don't sit here and pretend Bowe is some reformed ultra-zen-veteran who does the right thing. Because signing the tender and practicing with your team is the right thing to do here.

Bowe has changed his attitude dramatically the last couple seasons. You have to credit him that. I'd say "Reformed" isn't too far off.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:13 PM
:hmmm: I still want him to get paid...

Me too. And he will get paid.

That is not, and never was the question. Someone is going to pay Bowe.

The question is, does sitting out maximize his value? Does it HELP his cause? Will sitting out help him get the best possible contract?

The answer is clearly no, it doesn't.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 05:13 PM
:hmmm: I still want him to get paid...
WTF do you care what he makes?


hell ... you're not even a Chiefs fan iirc

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:17 PM
btw we are getting soooooooooo far ahead of the situation.

If Bowe only sits out 2 preseason games it's not that big of a deal. It hurts his ability to learn the offense some but he should be ok.

chances are this is nothing but a veteran avoiding training camp practices


Like i said earlier in the thread, this is all hypothetical, and I expect Bowe to suit up either the week of the 3rd preseason game, of shortly thereafter and have a fine season.

I dont think missing two preseason games is going to be so detrimental to him that it ruins his season. But it certainly doesn't help him either.

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:18 PM
Bowe has changed his attitude dramatically the last couple seasons. You have to credit him that. I'd say "Reformed" isn't too far off.

I agree.

Fish
08-07-2012, 05:19 PM
I don't get the lofty standards you guys are trying to apply to the situation. Bowe not acting like the perfect trooper at this point in time isn't the worst thing in the world. He could miss camp, come in game 1, and completely beast and all these "Perfect soldier" accusations would become instantly forgotten. That's all Bowe has to do at this point. And I'm pretty confident he could do just that.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 05:19 PM
WTF do you care what he makes?


hell ... you're not even a Chiefs fan iirc

:) I thought we was friends man? What does iirc mean?

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 05:25 PM
:) I thought we was friends man? What does iirc mean?
If I Remember Correctly

ModSocks
08-07-2012, 05:33 PM
I don't get the lofty standards you guys are trying to apply to the situation. Bowe not acting like the perfect trooper at this point in time isn't the worst thing in the world. He could miss camp, come in game 1, and completely beast and all these "Perfect soldier" accusations would become instantly forgotten. That's all Bowe has to do at this point. And I'm pretty confident he could do just that.

These aren't lofty expectations. These are smart business decisions.

Ima break down my argument as simple as possible one more time, and then I'm out.

Bowe wants more money.

To get more money, Bowe should be doing things that help him produce on the field to further increase his odds of getting a larger Contract, whether that be from the Chiefs or not. The More productive, the better.

Sitting out of TC will not help Bowe be a more productive player.

Does it hurt him? Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Don't know and not trying to predict it either. But what we do know is, sitting out won't make him BETTER. It does not HELP him achieve his objective of getting paid more money.

Can TC help a player get better? Yes it can. Doesn't guarantee he'll get better, but it can in fact make him better.

Once again, a better Bowe should equal a better season which will result in a better contract.

So, to reiterate:

Go to TC, possibly be better, at worse stay the same.

Not go to TC, Possibly be the same, at worst, be worse.

Either way, THIS season, you're getting paid the same.

So.....Not attending TC is not in his best interest if his long term goal is a bigger contract. If it's not in his best interest, then it's not a good business decision.

If it's not a good decision, then that may reinforce the stereotype that Bowe does not make good decisions.

Does reinforcing that stereotype HELP Bowe get a Larger Contract?

Of course it doesn't.

So the best thing he can do is get his ass into camp.

At worse he's the same Bowe, at best, he's a better Bowe.

Setsuna
08-07-2012, 05:35 PM
If I Remember Correctly

Oh. Then yes, you do. ;)

O.city
08-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Wonder how things would change in Bowe's eyes if Albert signs a deal, knowing he's likely to be tagged again?

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Bowe is such a terrible person...I'm sick of him corrupting everything that is pure

we should trade his overrated ass for 5 first round picks...


will not pass judgement on the Chiefs though, it's just business...

whoman69
08-07-2012, 06:09 PM
Like i said earlier in the thread, this is all hypothetical, and I expect Bowe to suit up either the week of the 3rd preseason game, of shortly thereafter and have a fine season.

I dont think missing two preseason games is going to be so detrimental to him that it ruins his season. But it certainly doesn't help him either.

I'm sure the 3 plays he misses in the first game will not effect him much.

Mr. Laz
08-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Bowe is such a terrible person...I'm sick of him corrupting everything that is pure

we should trade his overrated ass for 5 first round picks...


will not pass judgement on the Chiefs though, it's just business...

you cry like a bitch

notorious
08-07-2012, 06:24 PM
Bowe is such a terrible person...I'm sick of him corrupting everything that is pure

we should trade his overrated ass for 5 first round picks...


will not pass judgement on the Chiefs though, it's just business...


Don't forget a 3rd....

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 06:25 PM
you cry like a bitch

what's up, Laz? enjoying your pinkberry?

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 06:48 PM
What mistake? What can we do now? We can't even negotiate......how can we be 'making' a mistake (present tense)....

We either made a mistake by not renegotiating him into a long term contract BEFORE the deadline... or he rejected whatever offer we made, and now has to live with the tag...

We cant do anything different now, so how can this chump say we are 'making' a mistake...?

Where was this chump BEFORE the deadline to say what we should do? Why would he write this speculative drivel on August 7th when the deadline was in July...?

Dumb

Holy shit, this is the most relevant post in the whole fucking thread.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 06:59 PM
What mistake? What can we do now?

nothing.

http://i.imgur.com/vA6Go.jpg

Rausch
08-07-2012, 07:13 PM
IIRC franchised players get paid by GAME CHECKS.

Each game they play they make $X.

Why risk an injury in camp/preseason and lose out on money?

This is why players hate getting franchised...

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 07:21 PM
IIRC franchised players get paid by GAME CHECKS.

Each game they play they make $X.

Why risk an injury in camp/preseason and lose out on money?

This is why players hate getting franchised...

Once he signs the $ for the season is guaranteed. They all get paid week to week I believe the Monday after the game.

Brock
08-07-2012, 07:22 PM
IIRC franchised players get paid by GAME CHECKS.

Each game they play they make $X.

Why risk an injury in camp/preseason and lose out on money?

This is why players hate getting franchised...

No.

-King-
08-07-2012, 07:23 PM
Bowe is such a terrible person...I'm sick of him corrupting everything that is pure

we should trade his overrated ass for 5 first round picks...


will not pass judgement on the Chiefs though, it's just business...

When you make these posts....are you mocking somebody? Because other than your posts, no one has had these opinions you're trying to mock.

Other than Chiefsfootballfan, most everyone on this forum loves Bowe and know how much he means to the team.

I just don't get who you're trying to mock because you pretty much make the same posts in every Bowe thread.

-King-
08-07-2012, 07:24 PM
What mistake? What can we do now? We can't even negotiate......how can we be 'making' a mistake (present tense)....

We either made a mistake by not renegotiating him into a long term contract BEFORE the deadline... or he rejected whatever offer we made, and now has to live with the tag...

We cant do anything different now, so how can this chump say we are 'making' a mistake...?

Where was this chump BEFORE the deadline to say what we should do? Why would he write this speculative drivel on AUgust 7th when the deadline was in July...?

Dumb

This.

BoneKrusher
08-07-2012, 07:39 PM
if Bowe gets signed long term after the season (probably wont happen) i'll be dancing.
http://i39.tinypic.com/j5dvrn.gif

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 07:54 PM
When you make these posts....are you mocking somebody? Because other than your posts, no one has had these opinions you're trying to mock.

Other than Chiefsfootballfan, most everyone on this forum loves Bowe and know how much he means to the team.

I just don't get who you're trying to mock because you pretty much make the same posts in every Bowe thread.

actually, yes, everything in there is true....and bowe is routinely trashed on this board...pay attention

we've also been told he is overrated, a #2, not better than Antonio Brown, a diva, selfish, unnecessary now that we have Baldwin, and should be traded...nothing in that is hyperbole...all have been posted repeatedly

I personally defended him against the 'he's no better than Brown, trade him' argument of bosschief...

and more to the point, as this thread is perfect proof, childish moral judgements are attached to Bowe exercising his rights under the CBA

these childish moral judgements are not applied to Pioli, who also is simply exercising the franchise's rights under the CBA...but is not apparently selfish, a dick, overrated, 'not thinking about the team' and on and on in boring fashion...

i'd swear hand over god pioli has mults on this board

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 07:54 PM
i personally hope Bowe holds out and calls everyone's bluff

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 07:57 PM
i personally hope Bowe holds out and calls everyone's bluff

So you would much rather you be correct in your opinion on CP than have the Chiefs field the best possible team on opening day?


All I needed to hear.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 08:08 PM
i personally hope Bowe holds out and calls everyone's bluff

FILTER EVASION, LINKED TO PREVENT MY BANINATION

http://i.imgur.com/VOyms.gif

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:12 PM
So you would much rather you be correct in your opinion on CP than have the Chiefs field the best possible team on opening day?


All I needed to hear.

no, I'd rather Bowe show you morons who is right about his value....again, you can't even allow that Bowe has any justified agency...Bowe has to please Marcellus, or he's a bad guy

Bowe should do as ordered by Pioli and risk his career without a long term deal...just so you can feel smug

BigMeatballDave
08-07-2012, 08:12 PM
i personally hope Bowe holds out and calls everyone's bluff

Skip the season and lose 9.5m?

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:13 PM
and why do we need Bowe when we have Cassel and Baldwin?

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:14 PM
no, I'd rather Bowe show you morons who is right about his value....again, you can't even allow that Bowe has any justified agency...Bowe has to please Marcellus, or he's a bad guy

Bowe should do as ordered by Pioli and risk his career without a long term deal...just so you can feel smug

Reading comprehension fail. Where have I ever said his value was low? Find it.

Where have I ever said I don't want him back? Find it.

Please prove me wrong.

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Skip the season and lose 9.5m?

he can skip most of it and still make 4 mill

at that point, the Cassel and Baldwin show will either be awesome!! like Babb and some really dumb chiefs fans totally believe

or more likely it will be a fucking disaster, and Bowe's value to a team with a shitty QB will be obvious...and then we'll come up with some new excuse that exonerates pioli...and just go back to blaming Bowe

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:20 PM
Reading comprehension fail. Where have I ever said his value was low? Find it.

Where have I ever said I don't want him back? Find it.

Please prove me wrong.

no one cares, child...

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:21 PM
he can skip most of it and still make 4 mill

at that point, the Cassel and Baldwin show will either be awesome!! like Babb and some really dumb chiefs fans totally believe

or more likely it will be a ****ing disaster, and Bowe's value to a team with a shitty QB will be obvious...and then we'll come up with some new excuse that exonerates pioli...and just go back to blaming Bowe

Want to bet he shows before week 1?

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:21 PM
no one cares, child...

Except you.

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Except you.

no, your opinion...no one cares

you run around giving it to everyone breathlessly...you're very proud of it

"oh...we're all waiting breathlessly for marcellus' recycled opinions!!"

not really, we can read the paper to find out what pioli thinks...

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:28 PM
no, I'd rather Bowe show you morons who is right about his value....again, you can't even allow that Bowe has any justified agency...Bowe has to please Marcellus, or he's a bad guy

Bowe should do as ordered by Pioli and risk his career without a long term deal...just so you can feel smug

Dumb.


Why would we not want our best offensive player?


For nearly 10 million dollars, he's gonna play.

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:30 PM
Talking can is in his own little make believe world right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

SAUTO
08-07-2012, 08:31 PM
He says some funny shit though.

Makes me laugh
Posted via Mobile Device

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:32 PM
no, your opinion...no one cares

you run around giving it to everyone breathlessly...you're very proud of it

"oh...we're all waiting breathlessly for marcellus' recycled opinions!!"

not really, we can read the paper to find out what pioli thinks...


You are showing your ass here. I am not a Pioli fan and I don't recycle shit, I give MY opinion.

You on the other hand have been called out on your dumb shit

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 08:33 PM
Talking can is in his own little make believe world right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

No, he's just pounding Pioli for this stupid shit like he deserves.

This whole thing is fucking stupid and so are the people defending it and attacking this evil caricature of Dwayne Bowe that's been manifested from thin air.

He's the best fucking player we've had since Priest and we are dicking with him.

Reerun_KC
08-07-2012, 08:33 PM
TTC is melting down.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:36 PM
First off, Bowe will play. He's gonna be on the field week 1, likely for the last 2 PS games.



Secondly, have to agree with Clay and TTC.


Say Bowe was/is asking for above what he should be. So what. He's that important to our offense. It doesn't really matter what he would be worth to someone else, he's worth that much for our offense right now.


It was stupid not to pay him. Unless he wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL.

SAUTO
08-07-2012, 08:37 PM
No, he's just pounding Pioli for this stupid shit like he deserves.

This whole thing is fucking stupid and so are the people defending it and attacking this evil caricature of Dwayne Bowe that's been manifested from thin air.

He's the best fucking player we've had since Priest and we are dicking with him. funny that's you are talking any things made up it of thin air.

Your opinion that we are "dicking with him" came from the same place.
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:38 PM
First off, Bowe will play. He's gonna be on the field week 1, likely for the last 2 PS games.



Secondly, have to agree with Clay and TTC.


Say Bowe was/is asking for above what he should be. So what. He's that important to our offense. It doesn't really matter what he would be worth to someone else, he's worth that much for our offense right now.


It was stupid not to pay him. Unless he wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL.

You don't know what he was asking for, yet you say it was stupid not to pay him.


Okayyyy....

SAUTO
08-07-2012, 08:38 PM
First off, Bowe will play. He's gonna be on the field week 1, likely for the last 2 PS games.



Secondly, have to agree with Clay and TTC.


Say Bowe was/is asking for above what he should be. So what. He's that important to our offense. It doesn't really matter what he would be worth to someone else, he's worth that much for our offense right now.


It was stupid not to pay him. Unless he wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL. that it's the thing... None of us know details. It's all assumptions at this point.

People that want to bash Pioli... Do.

People that want to bash Bowe... Do.

It's not rocket surgery.
Posted via Mobile Device

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:39 PM
Talking can is in his own little make believe world right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

nah, i just don't live in a fantasy world

you're supposed to believe 'this is cassel's year' and 'bowe is a jerk for holding out'...

pointing out the Obvious stupidity of both makes the sad faces have sad face...it's always been that way here

marcellus is just the latest sad face...he thinks he deserves to be taken seriously because he means well, as if 'meaning well' excused dumb opinions

don't even try pointing out that in a few months we will have wasted 4 years on Cassel...then you'll get the sad faces + Laz + 'newbie' mult crying "nuh uh" in unison...

this board is a riot, i love it

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:41 PM
that it's the thing... None of us know details. It's all assumptions at this point.

People that want to bash Pioli... Do.

People that want to bash Bowe... Do.

It's not rocket surgery.
Posted via Mobile Device

We don't know the exact details, but there is the writing on the wall that speaks one way and some that says another.


I get that it's a business, but in a business you don't let your best worker go.

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:41 PM
nah, i just don't live in a fantasy world

you're supposed to believe 'this is cassel's year' and 'bowe is a jerk for holding out'...
Who has said any of this? ROFL

Everybody on the board agrees that Cassel sucks and the vast majority understand Bowe's holdout. So we're back to you being in your own world.

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:42 PM
No, he's just pounding Pioli for this stupid shit like he deserves.

This whole thing is ****ing stupid and so are the people defending it and attacking this evil caricature of Dwayne Bowe that's been manifested from thin air.

He's the best ****ing player we've had since Priest and we are dicking with him.


Complete bullshit as usual.

Most people haven't formed a final opinion on the subject because the simple fact is there isn't enough data to do so.

The idiots saying pay him whatever he wants are as dumb as the idiots saying let him go.

Neither are likely correct. There is a realistic value for Bowe and nobody, I mean nobody, here knows what he is asking or what has been offered so making assumptions about what is going on has zero merit.

Keep talking shit and acting like you know what the financials are and the impact, but the fact is you don't, I don't, and nobody on CP knows.

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:42 PM
We don't know the exact details, but there is the writing on the wall that speaks one way and some that says another.


I get that it's a business, but in a business you don't let your best worker go.

Bowe is still with the team.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:43 PM
Bowe is still with the team.

The team owns his rights, he's not employed at the moment.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 08:44 PM
Most people haven't formed a final opinion on the subject because the simple fact is there isn't enough data to do so.
.

Pioli doesn't have the luxury of not getting it done.

He fucked it up, and why is irrelevant.

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:44 PM
The team owns his rights, he's not employed at the moment.

He'll play this season. That's all I care about. I don't know what was said in the negotiations so I won't speculate on who's at fault, whether it be Bowe and his agent or Pioli.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:45 PM
Pioli doesn't have the luxury of not getting it done.

He ****ed it up, and why is irrelevant.

I'm swinging both ways on this, but how do we know he fucked it up?



I agree he should have been signed, but we don't know and likely won't ever know why he wasn't .

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:46 PM
Pioli doesn't have the luxury of not getting it done.

He ****ed it up, and why is irrelevant.

Once again your little brain can't keep up.

Pioli failed because Bowe asked for what and he turned it down? You don't have a fucking clue what the negotiations have been like from a $ standpoint.

If you say it doesn't matter it only proves your ignorance.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:47 PM
He'll play this season. That's all I care about. I don't know what was said in the negotiations so I won't speculate on who's at fault, whether it be Bowe and his agent or Pioli.

He will play this season, hopefully.



But you can't be shortsighted. He's in his prime right now.



The Chiefs are hopefully about to be in their prime window for a while, if we keep drafting well and keep our talent in house.

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:47 PM
:eek:Who has said any of this? ROFL

Everybody on the board agrees that Cassel sucks and the vast majority understand Bowe's holdout. So we're back to you being in your own world.

cool story, brah

Reerun_KC
08-07-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm swinging both ways.
Well this is more info then we really need to know.

-King-
08-07-2012, 08:48 PM
He will play this season, hopefully.



But you can't be shortsighted. He's in his prime right now.



The Chiefs are hopefully about to be in their prime window for a while, if we keep drafting well and keep our talent in house.

I don't get what you're trying to get at. Am I supposed to be mad at Pioli even though I have no idea what his offer was to Bowe?

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:50 PM
how about we cut to the chase...and the all the sad faces can put their money on the line

let's get a sign up sheet

Cassel Wins a Playoff Game...Bowe or no Bowe

Yea or Nay

outcome determines which group leaves forever

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 08:51 PM
If you say it doesn't matter it only proves your ignorance.

It doesn't matter.

Pioli's only job is to secure talent, and in particular the best offensive talent because his QB is a POS.

We failed to secure the best offensive player available to us.

Fail, fuck him, Pioli, pwned.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:51 PM
I don't get what you're trying to get at. Am I supposed to be mad at Pioli even though I have no idea what his offer was to Bowe?

If we do infact let him go next year and he signs with someone else for a reasonable deal it was a bad idea, hell even if its a monster deal, it was a bad idea.



Bowe has been our most consistent, best offensive weapon for the last few years.

He should be in the long term plans. I'm not upset at Pioli yet because I don't really know what the deal was or wasn't.

Just saying that the idea that "well we have him this year, its all that matter" isn't what the FO needs to be thinkin.

Hammock Parties
08-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Am I supposed to be mad at Pioli even though I have no idea what his offer was to Bowe?

Yes, this could potentially derail our season.

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:52 PM
how about we cut to the chase...and the all the sad faces can put their money on the line

let's get a sign up sheet

Cassel Wins a Playoff Game...Bowe or no Bowe

Yea or Nay

outcome determines which group leaves forever

pioli is a genious who has assembled a super bowl roster


this is easy money, folks

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:52 PM
how about we cut to the chase...and the all the sad faces can put their money on the line

let's get a sign up sheet

Cassel Wins a Playoff Game...Bowe or no Bowe

Yea or Nay

outcome determines which group leaves forever

Except you are missing the point that hardly anyone thinks Bowe isn't playing this year so your idea is well, dumb.

the Talking Can
08-07-2012, 08:54 PM
Except you are missing the point that hardly anyone thinks Bowe isn't playing this year so your idea is well, dumb.

Bowe is irrelevant

and since my opinions are so wrong...this is an easy win

you get a genious GM, a superbowl roster, and Bowe

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:55 PM
It doesn't matter.

Pioli's only job is to secure talent, and in particular the best offensive talent because his QB is a POS.

We failed to secure the best offensive player available to us.

Fail, **** him, Pioli, pwned.

Like I said you are a dumbass. You are like a 15 year old who lives in Madden video game world and there are no real $ involved.

In your mom's basement $$ isn't a real factor Clay, in the REAL world it is.

O.city
08-07-2012, 08:55 PM
TCC, just get back from the bar?

Marcellus
08-07-2012, 08:56 PM
Bowe is irrelevant

and since my opinions are so wrong...this is an easy win

you get a genious GM, a superbowl roster, and Bowe

Since Bowe is irrelevant, what does it have to do with the topic at hand which is well, Bowe?