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View Full Version : Chiefs Did Jonathan Baldwin drop this pass?


Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Make the call.

http://i.imgur.com/Lz1Gr.gif

Rain Man
08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
No. Really good defense.

Reerun_KC
08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
:facepalm:

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
Yes he did, hit both hands and then hit the ground...a drop.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 02:38 PM
No. Really good defense.

it was good defense but he still had both hands wrapped around it and dropped it.

Reerun_KC
08-13-2012, 02:38 PM
Yes he did, but No he didnt, I am not sure....

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:38 PM
Yes he did, hit both hands and then hit the ground...a drop.

It's a tough catch, for sure.

One that good wide receivers make.

They don't let a little contact force a drop.

Red Brooklyn
08-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Nice attempt. Good D. Never had full control. Not a drop.

BoneKrusher
08-13-2012, 02:40 PM
Yes he did, but No he didnt, I am not sure....

now i'm so confused.

Big Smoke
08-13-2012, 02:40 PM
It's a tough catch, for sure.

One that good wide receivers make.

They don't let a little contact force a drop.

You whine too much.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 02:40 PM
Nice attempt. Good D. Never had full control. Not a drop.

Doesn't matter, if a ball is in your hands and you don't catch it..then it's a dropped pass no excuses.

Saul Good
08-13-2012, 02:41 PM
No way is that a drop. You pause the gif where the defender hits his hand which makes it appear that he wasn't hit as hard as he was. That was a well thrown ball, but the coverage was perfect.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:41 PM
You whine too much.

Until we win a playoff game, I'm eating lots of cheese, too.

Red Brooklyn
08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Doesn't matter, if a ball is in your hands and you don't catch it..then it's a dropped pass no excuses.
Okay. My mistake.

Big Smoke
08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Until we win a playoff game, I'm eating lots of cheese, too.

Get constipated.

The Mayor
08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Drop. These are catches he makes at practice.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
You pause the gif where the defender hits his hand

I paused the gif where the ball was coming into contact, in full, with both of his palms.

Perhaps Baldwin needs stronger hands, so he doesn't drop balls in situations like this.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Okay. My mistake.

I'm not even saying he should have caught it because the defense was just about perfect but it's still a drop.

Brock
08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
It's a drop, but it's not an especially egregious one. The defender did a good job.

Big Smoke
08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
So you are giving credit to Cassel for a good throw?

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
I'm not even saying he should have caught it

I wasn't expecting him to make a tough catch like that, either.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 02:44 PM
I wasn't expecting him to make a tough catch like that, either.

/thread

Oh and get Bowe in here yesterday!

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 02:46 PM
No, Gay made a good play.

Von Dumbass
08-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Nice attempt. Good D. Never had full control. Not a drop.

If he did it would be a fumble, not a drop.

Baldwin had both hands on it, and while the defender did make a play on the ball he didn't do enough to make Baldwin miss a catch like that. You gotta have strong hands, Fitzgerald would have held on to it.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Doesn't matter, if a ball is in your hands and you don't catch it..then it's a dropped pass no excuses.

Please. If another grown man's hand is on the ball while you're trying to catch it, the ball hits the ground way more than it's caught. That's called a pass defensed, not a dropped ball according to any legitimate source who tracks these sort of things.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:48 PM
So you are giving credit to Cassel for a good throw?

I'd say the throw was a bit late, Baldwin had to wait on it. Accurate, though. Good job by Matt giving his receiver a chance to catch the ball. Good effort.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:49 PM
If another grown man's hand is on the ball

The DB didn't touch the ball, though. His hand is resting on top of Baldwin's hand.

Baldwin doesn't like contact, I guess.

Also, Baldwin has two hands. I guess his other hand couldn't help out.

Donger
08-13-2012, 02:49 PM
No, clearly not a drop.

Flachief58
08-13-2012, 02:50 PM
The defender did his job. His elbow hit JB's just as the ball was getting there. In a game of inches, it was just enough to cause the incomplete pass

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:51 PM
His elbow hit JB's

Did I miss something? Is Baldwin catching balls with his elbows these days?

This would explain a lot.

okcchief
08-13-2012, 02:53 PM
King of trolls.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 02:54 PM
The defender did his job.

Are you saying Baldwin didn't do his job?

Chocolate Hog
08-13-2012, 02:55 PM
Yes he did Bowe would have caught that.

MIAdragon
08-13-2012, 02:57 PM
Yes he did Bowe would have caught that.

Lets not get all crazy now.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 02:58 PM
The DB didn't touch the ball, though. His hand is resting on top of Baldwin's hand.

Baldwin doesn't like contact, I guess.

Also, Baldwin has two hands. I guess his other hand couldn't help out.

Doesn't matter. Catching a ball is actually a delicate operation. Strong hands don't catch balls. Soft hands catch the ball. For any action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Physics caused this ball to hit the ground.

I'm not saying strong hands aren't important for anybody who handles the ball and that it won't help secure a ball but I'm sure Baldwin's hands have sufficient strength. When you're in the act of catching and somebody comes in and swats your hand or the ball... most of those balls hit the ground no matter who is attempting that catch. It's just a stellar defensive play.

DJ's left nut
08-13-2012, 02:58 PM
It's a tough catch, for sure.

One that good wide receivers make.

They don't let a little contact force a drop.

It's a catch that elite WRs make regularly.

Good WRs make that catch about half the time and I'm fairly confident that Baldwin will do the same. In time, he'll make that catch more than half the time. I'd consider Miles Austin a good WR and he can get jarred from a ball. Bowe drops that ball with fair frequency as well. Those are good WRs.

Larry Fitzgerald doesn't drop that ball, nor does Calvin Johnson. Those are elite guys and Baldwin just isn't there yet.

I'm not going to fault him for not catching it - he shouldn't be expected to. He's not at that level just yet.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 02:58 PM
You ****ing guys kill me sometimes. We can't see what kind of grasp is on Baldwin's left arm, he appeared to lose the ball without holding it with his left hand. Baldwin could have hauled it in perhaps, if he had fought for the ball a lil more by extending to it quicker. A lesson for the young buck.

And it's a PI call, so fuck it.

tooge
08-13-2012, 02:59 PM
Yes, he did. Great defense will sometimes cause that. I will say this Gochiefs, that pass is put in there in about the only place it could be. Your Cassel bashing is only hurt by that gif

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 03:00 PM
If Flowers makes the same play, it's a good play and it's not a drop. It's a good play by Gay.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Did I miss something? Is Baldwin catching balls with his elbows these days?

This would explain a lot.

If you'll look from your hand up your arm some, you'll see that the elbow is connected there. More physics - maybe a little anatomy combined with a lot less player hating would help you accurately determine the difference between a dropped pass and a defensed pass.

okcchief
08-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Yes he did Bowe would have caught that.

Yes, because Bowe has never dropped a catchable ball.

luv
08-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Well, we know who Clay will be harping on all year.

Bearcat
08-13-2012, 03:02 PM
King of trolls.

.


#idiotsreadingtoomuchintopreseasongames

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:04 PM
If Flowers makes the same play, it's a good play and it's not a drop. It's a good play by Gay.

uh uh. that was too early on Baldwin's back. He's already draping on him when the ball arrives.

Flachief58
08-13-2012, 03:05 PM
Hold your arm straight out like JB had his, then have your mom hit your elbow, you will notice that your whole arm moves. Gay's hand made contact just AFTER his elbow did, it was an excellent defensive play

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:06 PM
it was a mugging:D

qabbaan
08-13-2012, 03:07 PM
That is not a drop.
Posted via Mobile Device

Flachief58
08-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Are you saying Baldwin didn't do his job?

No, Baldwin did all he could, Gay won THE BATTLE OF INCHES

Chocolate Hog
08-13-2012, 03:08 PM
That is not a drop.
Posted via Mobile Device

If it hits your hands it is.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Ball hit him in the hands, defender made contact with his arm. It was a tough catch, but if you are gonna be billed as this PS badass, catch the ball.



Again, it was a tough catch, but it's a catch that needs to be made. It's gonna be something like 3 and 9 in the late 3rd quarter that we need a catch like that to extend a drive. It was a great throw to a tight window. Gotta catch that one.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Yes he did Bowe would have caught that.

Your mother.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:09 PM
uh uh. that was too early on Baldwin's back. He's already draping on him when the ball arrives.

Disagree. Even in the slowed gif, it's too simultaneous to throw a flag. Just a really good play on Gay's part. You can't get it any closer than that. Any flag there would have been ticky-tack.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:09 PM
DB might have gotten a finger one it, and it's in no way pass interference.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
a lot less player hating would help you accurately determine the difference between a dropped pass and a defensed pass.

It's interesting that you say this!

William Gay was credited with ZERO passes defensed for Friday's game!

http://www.nfl.com/player/williamgay/2507220/gamelogs

ChiefsCountry
08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Good defense but that's a drop.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Disagree. Even in the slowed gif, it's too simultaneous to throw a flag. Just a really good play on Gay's part. You can't get it any closer than that. Any flag there would have been ticky-tack.

Your mother. Too:D

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
In the end, it's the preseason. Who gives a shit.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:12 PM
In the end, it's the preseason. Who gives a shit.

Actually, I kinda do.

Baldwin needs to make that catch if he's going to be "The Bowe Replacement."

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 03:13 PM
good defense......

I would say it is a PD for the defender, but he did have both hands on it...Can you rule it BOTH a PD and a drop or does it have to just be one or the other? If it is JUST one or the other, I'd say PD.If not I would call it a drop with a PD for the defender.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Actually, I kinda do.

Baldwin needs to make that catch if he's going to be "The Bowe Replacement."

So now we can use the preseason to shit on guys, but can't use it to prop people up?



Got it.

Brock
08-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Actually, I kinda do.

Baldwin needs to make that catch if he's going to be "The Bowe Replacement."

I've seen Bowe drop easier passes than that.

BossChief
08-13-2012, 03:14 PM
It's clearly a pass defensed.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Cool thing about pre season, the players are more sociable with fans before the games and the tix are cheap. The other night happened to feature superb weather, so there's that:D

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
Actually, I kinda do.

Baldwin needs to make that catch if he's going to be "The Bowe Replacement."

That's assuming Bowe makes that catch.

It hit him in the hands and had there not been a defender hitting his hand at the precise time the balls gets there he brings that in. Ultimately it's a drop but that was really good defense that caused it.

Inmem58
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
If the ball hits the finger tips of a reciever it's considered catchable. I'd say yes he dropped it.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
I've seen Bowe drop easier passes than that.

True. I've also seen him make incredibly tough catches and be a freaking badass.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
I've seen Bowe drop easier passes than that.

Ya because he drops the routine passes quite a bit and just about always makes the spectacular. That's his Modus Operandi.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
Then we can use the gif of Baldwin going up over the wr and making a great catch to prop him up?



Thought it didn't matter?

LOCOChief
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
yes because Bowe never drops.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:15 PM
It's clearly a pass defensed.

NFL disagrees.

Chocolate Hog
08-13-2012, 03:16 PM
In the end, it's the preseason. Who gives a shit.

Baldwin dropped a lot of balls last year. Howcome he gets a pass but Bowe doesn't?

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:16 PM
Actually, I kinda do.

Baldwin needs to make that catch if he's going to be "The Bowe Replacement."

ya, he does.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:17 PM
It's interesting that you say this!

William Gay was credited with ZERO passes defensed for Friday's game!

http://www.nfl.com/player/williamgay/2507220/gamelogs

Yeah - due to a PF, that play never happened, moron.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:17 PM
So now we can use the preseason to shit on guys, but can't use it to prop people up?

Got it.

Not at all.

Several good performances the other night.

Looking forward to Dexter McCluster as our #3 WR.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 03:17 PM
uh uh. that was too early on Baldwin's back. He's already draping on him when the ball arrives.

Yep, and it's pass interference if it's Routt. LMAO

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Baldwin dropped a lot of balls last year. Howcome he gets a pass but Bowe doesn't?

Where am I not giving Bowe a pass?



I out right said it was a drop earlier in the thread, but in the end it's a preseason drop. Wylie dropped an easier pass that was eventually picked off.


Guys need to catch the ball.

Brock
08-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Yeah - due to a PF, that play never happened, moron.

ROFL

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:18 PM
NFL disagrees.

You're just not smart at all.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:19 PM
Yeah - due to a PF, that play never happened, moron.

Quite right you are.

We may never know.

Priest31kc
08-13-2012, 03:19 PM
It's a drop. But it would have been a GREAT catch, and it was really good defense on Gay's part.

Doesn't mean much though. Would I have liked to see him haul that in? Sure. But it doesn't mean he's not going to be a beast of a WR still.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:20 PM
Not at all.

Several good performances the other night.

Looking forward to Dexter McCluster as our #3 WR.

Did McCluster run good routes? Did he catch a ball from Cassel that, probably, was one of the better throws Matt's made as a Chief?


Again, some guys had good nights, some didn't. It's the preseason, I'm not gonna read to much into it.



Honestly I was more optimistic about the organization the team showed and the way things were ran.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 03:20 PM
Baldwin dropped a lot of balls last year. Howcome he gets a pass but Bowe doesn't?

Because during the season Bowe was suspended for four games, he still managed to lead the league in drops.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:21 PM
Baldwin dropped a lot of balls last year. Howcome he gets a pass but Bowe doesn't?

How many did Baldwin drop?

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:21 PM
I would say it is a PD for the defender, but he did have both hands on it...Can you rule it BOTH a PD and a drop or does it have to just be one or the other? r.

I feel quite confident in saying the NFL would not credit a DB with a PD if the ball hit a receiver's hands without being touched.

Typically, PDs are credited on plays where the DB impacts the ball in flight.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:22 PM
How many did Baldwin drop?

95th in drop rate.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:22 PM
I'd hate to be a teammate of some of you guys if that's a drop. Pretty ridiculously high standards.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:22 PM
Not at all.

Several good performances the other night.

Looking forward to Dexter McCluster as our #3 WR.

I must be on LSD laced with antifreeze..........

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:23 PM
I feel quite confident in saying the NFL would not credit a DB with a PD if the ball hit a receiver's hands without being touched.

Typically, PDs are credited on plays where the DB impacts the ball in flight.

So serious question, if the wr gets both hands on it, and the DB rips a hand away, he doesn't get a PD?


Interesting. Does the NFL actually put out anything defining how they rule on these things?

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:23 PM
How many times was Baldwin targeted last year?

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 03:24 PM
I feel quite confident in saying the NFL would not credit a DB with a PD if the ball hit a receiver's hands without being touched.

Typically, PDs are credited on plays where the DB impacts the ball in flight.

This may be true in amajority of cases, but in some cases all a defender needs to do to be credited with a PD is 'break up' the play , even shove the WR out of bounds(will still get a PD without touching the ball), so while TYPICAL ....I would say probably 30%+ are ATYPICAL.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:25 PM
95th in drop rate.

Well, that kind of ends that discussion.

philfree
08-13-2012, 03:25 PM
After watching that a few times it looks like the defender pulls Baldwins head around with his left hand. Maybe the uncalled face mask had something to do with the incompletion?

Phobia
08-13-2012, 03:26 PM
It would be interesting to poll 20 actual athletes, both DB and WR to see what they say on the matter. I'm guessing they say good defense. But I'm biased.

saphojunkie
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
God this is a bitch thread.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
So serious question, if the wr gets both hands on it, and the DB rips a hand away, he doesn't get a PD?

Interesting. Does the NFL actually put out anything defining how they rule on these things?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2128923


Pass Defended

Any pass which a defender, through contact with the football, causes to be incomplete

So in this case, no a PD would not have been credited. Contact with the football was never made.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
After watching that a few times it looks like the defender pulls Baldwins head around with his left hand. Maybe the uncalled face mask had something to do with the incompletion?

It's not conclusive but that's not a bad argument.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
It would be interesting to poll 20 actual athletes, both DB and WR to see what they say on the matter. I'm guessing they say good defense. But I'm biased.

I'll think I'll ask Reddit.

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:28 PM
95th in drop rate.

I'd like to see a game log to see if he made progress on "drops" after missing the first 5 games because he broke his hand.

Inmem58
08-13-2012, 03:28 PM
To be honest Cassel put it right there. That throw was on the money. Baldwin needs to squeeze that ball and he would have caught it. Great throw by Cassel. Tight spot, but he put it there.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:28 PM
How many times was Baldwin targeted last year? Just curious, I don't remember him dropping that many balls.

Fruit Ninja
08-13-2012, 03:31 PM
tough catch no doubt witht he dude having a hand on his hand, but supposedly them are the catches he's been making, so yeah, you expect him to make that. It was actually a really good pass.

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 03:31 PM
So in this case, no a PD would not have been credited. Contact with the football was never made.

You are selectively quoting the rules, contact with the ball is NOT a requirement:

PASSES DEFENSED — If a pass falls incomplete because of the defensive efforts of one player, that player should be credited with a pass defensed. This may come about in two principal ways. (1) A defensive player who makes contact with the football, thus preventing the intended receiver from making the catch, should be credited with a pass defensed. (2) A defensive player who tackles the intended receiver simultaneously with the arrival of the football, thus preventing the reception, should also be credited with a pass defensed.

BigMeatballDave
08-13-2012, 03:32 PM
God this is a bitch thread.

Consider the author...

philfree
08-13-2012, 03:32 PM
It's not conclusive but that's not a bad argument.

You can see the defenders white gloved hand wrap around Baldwins face then as it disapears Baldwins head turns and his body follows.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:33 PM
Its not a drop because it was never a catch to begin with. In order for it to be a catch he has to make 2 steps as he possesses the football. Or in other words a football move.

Red Brooklyn
08-13-2012, 03:33 PM
Quote:
PASSES DEFENSED — If a pass falls incomplete because of the defensive efforts of one player, that player should be credited with a pass defensed. This may come about in two principal ways. (1) A defensive player who makes contact with the football, thus preventing the intended receiver from making the catch, should be credited with a pass defensed. (2) A defensive player who tackles the intended receiver simultaneously with the arrival of the football, thus preventing the reception, should also be credited with a pass defensed.

Well there you go.

Not a drop.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:34 PM
After watching that a few times it looks like the defender pulls Baldwins head around with his left hand. Maybe the uncalled face mask had something to do with the incompletion?

Ya, I believe there was contact on the left side before the ball came. We just can't see it from this angle.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:34 PM
You are selectively quoting the rules, contact with the ball is NOT a requirement:

That's from "Boys Football Stat Definitions."

I used ESPN's NFL Stat Glossary.

I think I win.

okcchief
08-13-2012, 03:34 PM
I'd hate to be a teammate of some of you guys if that's a drop. Pretty ridiculously high standards.

This.

I have to guess most of the people making a stink over this never played football. Only Madden where that is a routine catch.

Whether its a drop or a catch it was a tough ball. Shitting all over someone for that is ridiculous. Even Fitz and Megatron don't come up with those catches every time.

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Its not a drop because it was never a catch to begin with. In order for it to be a catch he has to make 2 steps as he possesses the football. Or in other words a football move.

... Dumbest thing I've read. It wasn't a catch because it was a drop. If he made a football move it would be a fumble.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Its not a drop because it was never a catch to begin with. In order for it to be a catch he has to make 2 steps as he possesses the football. Or in other words a football move.

That's called a fumble, son. LMAO

Reerun_KC
08-13-2012, 03:35 PM
This.

I have to guess most of the people making a stink over this never played football. Only Madden where that is a routine catch.

Whether its a drop or a catch it was a tough ball. Shitting all over someone for that is ridiculous. Even Fitz and Megatron don't come up with those catches every time.

Good Post.

Chiefnj2
08-13-2012, 03:36 PM
Good D.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:36 PM
This.

I have to guess most of the people making a stink over this never played football. Only Madden where that is a routine catch.

Whether its a drop or a catch it was a tough ball. Shitting all over someone for that is ridiculous. Even Fitz and Megatron don't come up with those catches every time.

I would tend to agree.



However, if the Chiefs are gonna build him up and we get all this shit about how he's tearing up TC, catch that ball.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:36 PM
That's called a fumble, son. LMAO

fuck you dick. It wasn't a catch or a drop. It was a claython.

BigMeatballDave
08-13-2012, 03:37 PM
Its not a drop because it was never a catch to begin with. In order for it to be a catch he has to make 2 steps as he possesses the football. Or in other words a football move.

That's a fumble.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:37 PM
... Dumbest thing I've read. It wasn't a catch because it was a drop. If he made a football move it would be a fumble.

ok ok ok it was a catch and a drop.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:37 PM
That's a fumble.

I GOT 3 OF YOU SERIOUS NANCIES!!1

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 03:38 PM
That's from "Boys Football Stat Definitions."

I used ESPN's NFL Stat Glossary.

I think I win.

you didnt use the entire quote....COntact with the ball is NOT needed...If you shove a receiver out of bounds before his feet come down with the ball - YOU GET A PASS DEFENSE

if you tackle the guy the moment he touches the ball and the ball comes loose such that it is an incomplete pass.....YOU GET A PD.....

There is no need to touch the ball to get a PD...

YOU FAIL

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:38 PM
I would tend to agree.



However, if the Chiefs are gonna build him up and we get all this shit about how he's tearing up TC, catch that ball.

Making a "circus catch" is not the same as making a catch that is perfectly defended.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:39 PM
Making a "circus catch" is not the same as making a catch that is perfectly defended.

A circus catch is a wide umbrella. It can cover the great catch getting feet in bounds, or making a catch that is perfectly defended.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:39 PM
I'd hate to be a teammate of some of you guys if that's a drop. Pretty ridiculously high standards.

Eh, Baldwin had to come back to this pass. He could have extended and used his body as a shield. Baldwin is known for using his body, just he is not quite ready for the speed of defenders at this level. He's not playing full speed yet, which is a bit disappointing considering the circumstances.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Eh, Baldwin had to come back to this pass. He could have extended and used his body as a shield. Baldwin is known for using his body, just he is not quite ready for the speed of defenders at this level. He's not playing full speed yet, which is a bit disappointing considering the circumstances.

Dumbest shit i've ever read.



Extended his body? To catch it with his body?

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:41 PM
Its what happens when you eat too much popcorn

Inmem58
08-13-2012, 03:41 PM
Its not a drop because it was never a catch to begin with. In order for it to be a catch he has to make 2 steps as he possesses the football. Or in other words a football move.

Then that would be considered a fumble.

Inmem58
08-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Great throw by Cassel

ThaVirus
08-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Good throw. Good effort. Great defense.

I'm well aware that the defender was draped over him, but it hit him in the hands and he didn't haul it in.. So I'd call it a drop.

Given the context of the game I don't really give a shit. In a tight one I'll expect him to bring that one in though.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:42 PM
How many times was Baldwin targeted last year? Just curious, I don't remember him dropping that many balls.

51 targets
21 catches
6 drops

Catch % 112th. (4th from last)
Drop % 95th (last)

okcchief
08-13-2012, 03:43 PM
I would tend to agree.



However, if the Chiefs are gonna build him up and we get all this shit about how he's tearing up TC, catch that ball.

If he cant make the play routinely then point taken. If its one target in a preseason game and he can't make the grab it's just one tough catch he didn't come up with.

Baldwin will make great catches this season. I'm not worried about that. This is just a trolling attempt. Go Chiefs has a hard on to defend Bowe at every turn and can't wait to shit on Baldwin

Flachief58
08-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Eh, Baldwin had to come back to this pass. He could have extended and used his body as a shield. Baldwin is known for using his body, just he is not quite ready for the speed of defenders at this level. He's not playing full speed yet, which is a bit disappointing considering the circumstances.

damn dude :facepalm:

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:43 PM
you didnt use the entire quote....

Yes I did.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2128923


PD Pass Defended

Any pass which a defender, through contact with the football, causes to be incomplete

That's all the text there is, son.

CoMoChief
08-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Did he drop it? Yes.

Did he drop it because of good defense? Yes.

You would like for him to make that grab, but it's a tough call. 7 or 8 times out of 10 I'd bet he makes that grab.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:45 PM
Reddit NFL is weighing in.

The internet will judge you, Jon Baldwin.

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/y5vnq/is_this_a_drop_by_jon_baldwin_please_yay_or_nay/

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 03:47 PM
That's all the text there is, son.

Its from a fantasy football thing....

The quote I used is an actual NFL offical responding via e-mail to how they score the actual stat.

If you ever watched ANY football, you'd be aware that CB's/LB's/S's get PD's all the time without touching the ball.

QuikSsurfer
08-13-2012, 03:47 PM
I didn't think there was any question.. He dropped the ball and I thought that when I saw it live.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:47 PM
51 targets
21 catches
6 drops

Catch % 112th. (4th from last)
Drop % 95th (last)

Well, he was targeted alot by Tyler Palko, so we can take that for what it's worth.


51 targets isn't very many either.

BossChief
08-13-2012, 03:49 PM
Baldwin dropped a lot of balls last year. Howcome he gets a pass but Bowe doesn't?Who hasn't given Bowe a pass on his drops? Only dumbshits who only watch the Chiefs and espn expect wide outs to catch everything. Most of the best receivers in the game are towards the top of the kist of dropped passes EVERY YEAR.

As far as Baldwin goes, I am giving him more leeway than most concerning last year because of Thomas Jones either breaking JBs hand or at least his thumb...that will effect any receivers ability to catch the ball.

The play in the op is a good pass into tight coverage that gets knocked loose. It happens...even to the best receivers.

Baldwins hands in college were phenomenal.

Yeah - due to a PF, that play never happened, moron.
hahaha

Owned, again.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:49 PM
The quote I used is an actual NFL offical responding via e-mail to how they score the actual stat.

Bullshit.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:49 PM
51 targets isn't very many either.

Honestly makes you wonder if he can get open.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Add in that Baldwin did have a broken thumb last year.

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Honestly makes you wonder if he can get open.

This coming from a dude that has made gifs of him wide open.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:51 PM
Honestly makes you wonder if he can get open.

:facepalm:

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 03:52 PM
This coming from a dude that has made gifs of him wide open.

Baldwin has issues getting open, and Cassel can't even find him when he is open.

Oh, man. :evil:

Molitoth
08-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Not a drop I would complain about, but Elite WR's catch that.

jd1020
08-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Not a drop I would complain about, but Elite WR's catch that.

100% of the time?

That was a perfectly defended pass. Baldwin probably makes that catch more than he drops it.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:54 PM
its not a drop. nor a catch.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Dumbest shit i've ever read.



Extended his body? To catch it with his body?

WR's use the body as a shield by "extending" the arms & shoulders to catch the ball.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:55 PM
WR's use the body as a shield by "extending" the arms & shoulders to catch the ball.

Yeah



It looks to be a little too far out in front to extend.

O.city
08-13-2012, 03:57 PM
The biggest thing you guys are overlooking, is that Cassel made a good throw into a tight window.



Congrats on that.

Johnny Vegas
08-13-2012, 03:58 PM
anything in slow motion makes it look easier than it was in real live action. shit was defended good. I'm sure momentum of the defenders arm forced the ball out as they were going down.

DaWolf
08-13-2012, 04:00 PM
Defender made a nice play to force the issue...

penguinz
08-13-2012, 04:01 PM
Why don;t you show it in real time speed?

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 04:03 PM
Yeah



It looks to be a little too far out in front to extend.

He might have made the move to the ball sooner. He was blocking for the run out there and I liked that, I would like to see him play quicker during his routes.

Pawnmower
08-13-2012, 04:06 PM
Bullshit.

Even if you don't buy it (which I can't say I blame you for), turn off your 'troll' for one second and think to some normal PD situations....there are plenty of them where contact with the ball doesn't happen.

Sully
08-13-2012, 04:06 PM
If the QB throws a ball, and while his arm is in motion, it is hit by a d-lineman, then sails and is intercepted... It's an interception.
In much the same way I have no problem calling this a "drop" without adding the subtext that it was a poor play by Baldwin. The DB made a play and forced a "drop" that a very small percentage of athletes would have caught. No big deal. Absolutely no indication of Baldwin's ability other than to say he's not one of the greatest in the game.

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 04:06 PM
The biggest thing you guys are overlooking, is that Cassel made a good throw into a tight window.



Congrats on that.

STFU

Dave Lane
08-13-2012, 04:08 PM
It's a tough catch, for sure.

One that good wide receivers make.

They don't let a little contact force a drop.

That was more than a little contact. That ball gets dropped 9 out of 10 times.

DJ's left nut
08-13-2012, 04:09 PM
This.

I have to guess most of the people making a stink over this never played football. Only Madden where that is a routine catch.


Stranger still are the number of people that are parroting 'coach-speak'.

I've admitted it before - I'm the only person on CP that wasn't All-Conference, All-World in high school. I was fairly lousy most days. As such, I heard many a coach say "If you can get a hand on it, you can catch it..."

This is absolute horse-shit. This is stuff coaches say to instill the attitude in a player that the ball is theirs and they should attack any ball that's near them because if they can get there, they can catch it.

It does not mean that they expect you to catch every ball that hits your hands. How often did Cassel throw behind a guy last season who had to contort himself into some odd pretzel-shape to get his hands on the ball, only to get hit in the kidneys and lose it. Drop? Of course not; he got his hands on a ball and it got knocked out. Shit happens; the other guy is getting paid to play this game as well.

That play wasn't a drop. Nor was it a ball he "has to catch". That was a ball that 90% of the guys in the NFL do not catch more often than not and a ball that another highly paid, highly athletic person knocked from his possession. Holding him to a Larry Fitzgerald standard is just stupid. Fitz is going to the HOF some day - I think we can call him his own breed of cat.

Baldwin's going to be a very good WR some day. A merely good WR is not simply expected to bring that ball in every time.

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 04:10 PM
I wasn't expecting him to make a tough catch like that, either.

LMAO Don't fall for the troll guys.

What are you expecting out of Baldwin, and his crappy hands this season Clay?

Amnorix
08-13-2012, 04:12 PM
Not a drop. Pass defensed.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 04:15 PM
What are you expecting out of Baldwin, and his crappy hands this season Clay?

I don't have a clue.

The propaganda from One Arrowhead is he's a freak who's going to go off like Bowe did in 2010.

My response:

http://iwtbi.ytmnd.com/

Dave Lane
08-13-2012, 04:16 PM
Not a drop. Pass defensed.

Correct answer.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Why don;t you show it in real time speed?

We're trying to figure out where the bullet hit Kennedy's skull.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 04:24 PM
lol

http://i.imgur.com/OFGct.jpg

DeezNutz
08-13-2012, 04:28 PM
Stranger still are the number of people that are parroting 'coach-speak'.

I've admitted it before - I'm the only person on CP that wasn't All-Conference, All-World in high school. I was fairly lousy most days. As such, I heard many a coach say "If you can get a hand on it, you can catch it..."

This is absolute horse-shit. This is stuff coaches say to instill the attitude in a player that the ball is theirs and they should attack any ball that's near them because if they can get there, they can catch it.

It does not mean that they expect you to catch every ball that hits your hands. How often did Cassel throw behind a guy last season who had to contort himself into some odd pretzel-shape to get his hands on the ball, only to get hit in the kidneys and lose it. Drop? Of course not; he got his hands on a ball and it got knocked out. Shit happens; the other guy is getting paid to play this game as well.

That play wasn't a drop. Nor was it a ball he "has to catch". That was a ball that 90% of the guys in the NFL do not catch more often than not and a ball that another highly paid, highly athletic person knocked from his possession. Holding him to a Larry Fitzgerald standard is just stupid. Fitz is going to the HOF some day - I think we can call him his own breed of cat.

Baldwin's going to be a very good WR some day. A merely good WR is not simply expected to bring that ball in every time.

Inarticulate dumbass. :shake:

aturnis
08-13-2012, 04:42 PM
I don't have a clue.

The propaganda from One Arrowhead is he's a freak who's going to go off like Bowe did in 2010.

My response:

http://iwtbi.ytmnd.com/

Propaganda? Pioli and Crennel's aren't the ones on twitter telling the tales of his ridiculous catches from camp. It's reporters and fans. Chill dude. You're getting too involved in this Pioli hate of yours. It's become an obsession.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 04:44 PM
Propaganda? Pioli and Crennel's aren't the ones on twitter telling the tales of his ridiculous catches from camp. It's reporters and fans. Chill dude. You're getting too involved in this Pioli hate of yours. It's become an obsession.

You should watch the video with Josh Looney and Mitch Holthus taking shit on Jeff Chadiha for writing a pro-Bowe piece.

The organization is spinning this, big time, like they don't need Bowe.

DaFace
08-13-2012, 04:45 PM
I wouldn't call it a drop. He never had a great grab on it in the first place, then the defender pushes his arms down so that he couldn't bring the ball into his chest. Looks like a combination of iffy throw and good defense to me.

mcaj22
08-13-2012, 04:46 PM
iffy throw? that's one of the best throws considering the window i've ever seen from that turd Cassel.

any other time from Cassel that would be an interception right to the defender. He put it in the only place the WR had a chance, and that's all that you can ask for from an average turd stain QB.

DaFace
08-13-2012, 04:47 PM
iffy throw? that's one of the best throws considering the window i've ever seen from that turd Cassel.

any other time from Cassel that would be an interception right to the defender. He put it in the only place the WR had a chance, and that's all that you can ask for from an average turd stain QB.

Well, I guess I meant "throw that was not easy to catch" rather than "bad throw." Cassel got it as close as he could've, but there just wasn't much of a window there.

mcaj22
08-13-2012, 04:51 PM
Well, I guess I meant "throw that was not easy to catch" rather than "bad throw." Cassel got it as close as he could've, but there just wasn't much of a window there.

yea why that was his option to make a pass is a whole other argument. I'd like to see the full field on that play to see what player was actually wide open that Cassel still stuck to the double covered first read trying to force a pass lol

L.A. Chieffan
08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
A drop is a drop, doesn't matter if it got knocked out its still a drop. Having said that, there are different levels of drops.

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 04:55 PM
I don't have a clue.

The propaganda from One Arrowhead is he's a freak who's going to go off like Bowe did in 2010.

My response:

http://iwtbi.ytmnd.com/

He's no Devard Darling that's for sure.ROFL

L.A. Chieffan
08-13-2012, 04:59 PM
He's no Devard Darling that's for sure.ROFL

Sick burn

DJ's left nut
08-13-2012, 05:11 PM
Well, I guess I meant "throw that was not easy to catch" rather than "bad throw." Cassel got it as close as he could've, but there just wasn't much of a window there.

The most exciting part of that play is that Cassel threw it at all.

I've complained for the entire duration of Cassel's tenure that he doesn't have an accurate barometer of "NFL Open." He's looked for guys that are running with 3 strides of separation and no safety over top. If a guy isn't flat out uncovered, he's not going to throw the ball to him.

It's why he only threw 7 picks in 2010 and it's why our passing attack has been largely crap under his charge. 'Open' in the NFL often means nothing more than the ability to take the chance that Cassel took with that throw.

There are going to be times that ball isn't caught. Hell, there are going to be times that he mis-fires and its picked. But in the end, if he's doing that on 3rd and 9 instead of dumping it off to his FB for a 2 yrd gain, the offense will be much much better for it.

That's the kind of throw that I'm excited to see him even attempting, let alone executing.

It was a very good throw from Cassel, an A effort from Baldwin and just a damn nice play from Gay to knock it away.

Oh well. You tip your cap to Gay, punt the ball and make certain he realizes that he's going to have to do that all day because there are no free lunches here. The next 3rd and 9, his timing may not be quite that sharp when Cassel fires the ball into that window.

Inmem58
08-13-2012, 05:11 PM
Great throw by Castel

Detoxing
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
The most exciting part of that play is that Cassel threw it at all.

I've complained for the entire duration of Cassel's tenure that he doesn't have an accurate barometer of "NFL Open." He's looked for guys that are running with 3 strides of separation and no safety over top. If a guy isn't flat out uncovered, he's not going to throw the ball to him.

It's why he only threw 7 picks in 2010 and it's why our passing attack has been largely crap under his charge. 'Open' in the NFL often means nothing more than the ability to take the chance that Cassel took with that throw.

There are going to be times that ball isn't caught. Hell, there are going to be times that he mis-fires and its picked. But in the end, if he's doing that on 3rd and 9 instead of dumping it off to his FB for a 2 yrd gain, the offense will be much much better for it.

That's the kind of throw that I'm excited to see him even attempting, let alone executing.

It was a very good throw from Cassel, an A effort from Baldwin and just a damn nice play from Gay to knock it away.

Oh well. You tip your cap to Gay, punt the ball and make certain he realizes that he's going to have to do that all day because there are no free lunches here. The next 3rd and 9, his timing may not be quite that sharp when Cassel fires the ball into that window.

And lets not forget about his protection either. Cassel had all freaking day to make that throw.

kysirsoze
08-13-2012, 05:24 PM
It's not a fucking drop. Saying "he should have caught it" doesn't make it a drop. It's a drop when it is completely the fault of the receiver. He could have pulled it off, but it was defensed. Grats to GoChiefs for stirring the pot over nothing, though.

Sorter
08-13-2012, 05:29 PM
He's no Devard Darling that's for sure.ROFL

ROFL

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-13-2012, 05:31 PM
Looked like a hell of a throw and a nice defensive play.

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 05:31 PM
ROFL

Been lurking a while eh?

Sorter
08-13-2012, 05:39 PM
Been lurking a while eh?

Haha, nobody forgets the awesomeness of Devard Fucking Darling.


Nobody. :shake:

ReynardMuldrake
08-13-2012, 05:40 PM
Calling it a drop is not fair to Baldwin. It was a well-defensed ball.

Subtract the defender, he makes that catch. It's not a drop.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:41 PM
Drop or not, it was a well placed pass between 2 defenders and only where Baldwin could grab it. In real time I thought it was maybe a pass he shouldn't have made. In slow motion the pass was great, still not sure if he should have made it but he gave Baldwin a chance. The defender played it well and didn't allow Baldwing to control the ball and pull it in.

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Haha, nobody forgets the awesomeness of Devard ****ing Darling.


Nobody. :shake:

Did you know that Clayton used to tell us all about how awesome "DVD" was going to be.

Shaid
08-13-2012, 06:04 PM
How the hell is that not a drop? Two hands on the ball, bring the damn thing in. The guys supposed to have the talent of a #1 WR. If it was Bowe we'd have everyone calling it a drop. I don't see how it's even questioned.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 06:04 PM
Its from a fantasy football thing....

The quote I used is an actual NFL offical responding via e-mail to how they score the actual stat.

If you ever watched ANY football, you'd be aware that CB's/LB's/S's get PD's all the time without touching the ball.

Feels a little bit like arguing politics in DC, huh? I don't think watching football is the barometer here. Obviously, Clay watches a lot of football. I think that 90% of your "good defense" votes are gonna be guys who have suited up at some point and either defended passes or caught them. Anybody who hasn't really doesn't have a complete understanding of how any small counter-attack can cause a pass to hit the ground through no fault of the WR.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 06:10 PM
How the hell is that not a drop? Because that implies that Baldwin screwed up, which he absolutely did not. Two hands on the ball, bring the damn thing in. The guys supposed to have the talent of a #1 WR. If it was Bowe we'd have everyone calling it a drop. I don't see how it's even questioned.

You don't see how it's questioned because you've never tried to catch a 60 MPH football with a 220 lbs guy draped on your back slapping at your hands.

Shaid
08-13-2012, 06:13 PM
After watching that a few times it looks like the defender pulls Baldwins head around with his left hand. Maybe the uncalled face mask had something to do with the incompletion?

This is something I didn't see and gives Baldwin a small bit of leeway. I still want to see him catch it but it is tougher.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 06:15 PM
If the QB throws a ball, and while his arm is in motion, it is hit by a d-lineman, then sails and is intercepted... It's an interception.
In much the same way I have no problem calling this a "drop" without adding the subtext that it was a poor play by Baldwin. The DB made a play and forced a "drop" that a very small percentage of athletes would have caught. No big deal. Absolutely no indication of Baldwin's ability other than to say he's not one of the greatest in the game.

That's fair. But for most people "drop" has a negative connotation. Clearly, he didn't catch the ball. But if we're trying to assign some blame, about 3% of the blame falls to Baldwin while 97% of the "blame" is on Gay.

WhiteWhale
08-13-2012, 06:21 PM
I've never seen a fan want a player to fail so badly. I mean the idea that Baldwin could be good is just devastating him. The horror... the horror.

unlurking
08-13-2012, 06:21 PM
Has anyone posted a gif from another angle?

Can't tell where the defender's left hand is. Almost looks like it was in front of Baldwin's face just before the ball got there, maybe hitting his facemask.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 06:27 PM
Jason Madson‏@Jason_Madson

Baldwin just punted from the 45 yard line. It died at the 2. He can do it all. #ChiefsCamp

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Ball hit both his palms cleanly, but he didn't screw up! Nope! Any contact whatsoever means it's not his fault. LMAO

William Gay is 5-10, 190 lbs, BTW. If that.

Shaid
08-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Because that implies that Baldwin screwed up, which he absolutely did not.

He did drop the ball, the level of screw up can be questioned because it's a tough catch but it is a screw up.

You don't see how it's questioned because you've never tried to catch a 60 MPH football with a 220 lbs guy draped on your back slapping at your hands.

I've also never been drafted in the first round of the NFL draft and been paid millions of dollars to make catches like that either. I give him some leeway based on the uncalled face mask but the defender never touched the ball and he had two hands on it. You want to be an NFL receiver, you'd better bring it in.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 06:30 PM
Ball hit both his palms cleanly, but he didn't screw up! Nope! Any contact whatsoever means it's not his fault. LMAO

And look at the defenders arm on Baldwin's arm. I'm sure he wasn't trying to keep Baldwin from catching it or anything.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 06:36 PM
He did drop the ball, the level of screw up can be questioned because it's a tough catch but it is a screw up.

I've also never been drafted in the first round of the NFL draft and been paid millions of dollars to make catches like that either. I give him some leeway based on the uncalled face mask but the defender never touched the ball and he had two hands on it. You want to be an NFL receiver, you'd better bring it in.

Nor have I, obviously. But it's easy to sit on the couch criticizing a player. I don't care if the defender was 110 lbs, if he has a hand in the middle of a catch attempt, the WR is going to lose most of those battles. Do you know how many times I've had similar balls slapped away or slapped them away? Why do you think DB's are coached to swipe at the receiver's hands? It's because it makes a big difference.

LoneWolf
08-13-2012, 06:42 PM
I paused the gif where the ball was coming into contact, in full, with both of his palms.

Perhaps Baldwin needs stronger hands, so he doesn't drop balls in situations like this.

The bigger question is, who gives a shit? Maybe you can show Baldwin how to strengthen his hands to where he never drops a ball. You've obviously strengthened your lips sufficiently that they never drop a ball once it is in their grip.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 06:57 PM
Sup, Jon. Heard you had problems with defenders hitting your arms and shit when you're trying to catch a ball. U mad?

http://i.imgur.com/iKePd.gif

Phobia
08-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Sup, Jon. Heard you had problems with defenders hitting your arms and shit when you're trying to catch a ball. U mad?

http://i.imgur.com/iKePd.gif

I don't think you can be helped.

JASONSAUTO
08-13-2012, 07:01 PM
Nor have I, obviously. But it's easy to sit on the couch criticizing a player. I don't care if the defender was 110 lbs, if he has a hand in the middle of a catch attempt, the WR is going to lose most of those battles. Do you know how many times I've had similar balls slapped away or slapped them away? Why do you think DB's are coached to swipe at the receiver's hands? It's because it makes a big difference.

You have killed it this thread. Djln too.

pretty sure it was mentioned in a conversation with clay earlier about it bring a no play in the first place, yet he does all this like he didn't know, he is the biggest troll
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
08-13-2012, 07:02 PM
Make the call.

http://i.imgur.com/Lz1Gr.gif

.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
08-13-2012, 07:02 PM
The db slaps his hands, it happens.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
08-13-2012, 07:04 PM
Pretty sure gay has him by the facemask all the way to the ground, too
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-13-2012, 07:07 PM
Pretty sure gay has him by the facemask all the way to the ground, too
Posted via Mobile Device

What? So all opposing players are now gay?


















:evil:

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 07:13 PM
You have killed it this thread. Djln too.

pretty sure it was mentioned in a conversation with clay earlier about it bring a no play in the first place, yet he does all this like he didn't know, he is the biggest troll
Posted via Mobile Device

How many passes does Baldwin need to drop this preseason before we start to get concerned?

JASONSAUTO
08-13-2012, 07:18 PM
How many passes does Baldwin need to drop this preseason before we start to get concerned?

Let's decide that when he gets his first drop...
Posted via Mobile Device

petegz28
08-13-2012, 07:19 PM
Sup, Jon. Heard you had problems with defenders hitting your arms and shit when you're trying to catch a ball. U mad?

http://i.imgur.com/iKePd.gif

Where's the easy passes Bowe dropped? Probably don't want to show them.

DaneMcCloud
08-13-2012, 07:20 PM
How many passes does Baldwin need to drop this preseason before we start to get concerned?

LMAO

Should I mark this day as the beginning, middle or end of your menstral cycle?

Guru
08-13-2012, 07:20 PM
no

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 07:21 PM
Sup, Jon. Heard you had problems with defenders hitting your arms and shit when you're trying to catch a ball. U mad?

http://i.imgur.com/iKePd.gif

don't compare pass plays that are inside the zone of allowable contact with plays that happen beyond the zone of allowable contact.

Chiefnj2
08-13-2012, 07:26 PM
I don't see how anyone can classify that as a drop as opposed to a perfectly defended ball.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 07:26 PM
don't compare pass plays that are inside the zone of allowable contact with plays that happen beyond the zone of allowable contact.

Are you trying to say Jesuson Baldwin can't hit a curveball?

petegz28
08-13-2012, 07:30 PM
Are you trying to say Jesuson Baldwin can't hit a curveball?

No, but he can't punt like a mutha!

Shaid
08-13-2012, 07:32 PM
Nor have I, obviously. But it's easy to sit on the couch criticizing a player. I don't care if the defender was 110 lbs, if he has a hand in the middle of a catch attempt, the WR is going to lose most of those battles. Do you know how many times I've had similar balls slapped away or slapped them away? Why do you think DB's are coached to swipe at the receiver's hands? It's because it makes a big difference.

ok, there are really 2 questions in this thread obviously. First, the question on whether it's a drop or not. I think it's a drop, a tough catch but a drop nonetheless.

The second part of this thread is obviously trying to determine if Baldwin is worthy of being called a #1 receiver or not. I still think the guy has the ability to be that, whether or not this was a drop. It's extremely early in the evaluation process but I am hopeful that Baldwin will end out the year as a stud. He's flashed, he just need to be consistent and get a little stronger.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 07:33 PM
ok, there are really 2 questions in this thread obviously. First, the question on whether it's a drop or not. I think it's a drop, a tough catch but a drop nonetheless.

The second part of this thread is obviously trying to determine if Baldwin is worthy of being called a #1 receiver or not. I still think the guy has the ability to be that, whether or not this was a drop. It's extremely early in the evaluation process but I am hopeful that Baldwin will end out the year as a stud. He's flashed, he just need to be consistent and get a little stronger.

I've seen Bowe drop much easier passes, so what's that say?

DaFace
08-13-2012, 07:40 PM
Sup, Jon. Heard you had problems with defenders hitting your arms and shit when you're trying to catch a ball. U mad?

http://i.imgur.com/iKePd.gif

Gonna post some Bobby Sippio highlights and claim that makes him a #1 WR next?

Ace Gunner
08-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Are you trying to say Jesuson Baldwin can't hit a curveball?

ROFL it was a so so play Wendler. just hold up here until we get to regular season.

BTW - that bowe catch wasn't from the playoff game.

ChiefGator
08-13-2012, 08:29 PM
Calling it a drop is not fair to Baldwin. It was a well-defensed ball.

Subtract the defender, he makes that catch. It's not a drop.

Subtract the defender, he makes that catch. Fucking A....

Phobia
08-13-2012, 08:34 PM
ok, there are really 2 questions in this thread obviously. First, the question on whether it's a drop or not. I think it's a drop, a tough catch but a drop nonetheless.

The second part of this thread is obviously trying to determine if Baldwin is worthy of being called a #1 receiver or not. I still think the guy has the ability to be that, whether or not this was a drop. It's extremely early in the evaluation process but I am hopeful that Baldwin will end out the year as a stud. He's flashed, he just need to be consistent and get a little stronger.

I haven't debated the underlying question whatsoever but I do agree with your assessment.

Still disagree that any WR can be expected to catch a ball with a hand in the mix. Sure would be nice if that happened for us but that would have been more impressive than catching a ball behind the back of a DB.

DeezNutz
08-13-2012, 08:37 PM
The most exciting part of that play is that Cassel threw it at all.

...................................................................................................

It was a very good throw from Cassel, an A effort from Baldwin and just a damn nice play from Gay to knock it away.


Looked like a hell of a throw and a nice defensive play.

These. The end.

We'll have no shortage of opportunities throughout the year to want/need to shit on Cassel; this isn't one of them.

Chiefs looked great on Friday. Enjoy it.

lcarus
08-13-2012, 08:43 PM
Nice attempt. Good D. Never had full control. Not a drop.

I agree with you. Good D

Shaid
08-13-2012, 08:43 PM
I've seen Bowe drop much easier passes, so what's that say?

So have I and I don't think anyone would debate that's been one of his biggest weaknesses.

DaneMcCloud
08-13-2012, 08:45 PM
Incomplete.

It happens.

lcarus
08-13-2012, 08:48 PM
In the end, he's gonna make some catches like that, he's gonna miss some catches like that. He'll make some even more impressive grabs than that, he'll drop some easier catches than that.

Sully
08-13-2012, 08:50 PM
That's fair. But for most people "drop" has a negative connotation. Clearly, he didn't catch the ball. But if we're trying to assign some blame, about 3% of the blame falls to Baldwin while 97% of the "blame" is on Gay.

I agree

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 08:57 PM
ROFL it was a so so play Wendler. just hold up here until we get to regular season.

BTW - that bowe catch wasn't from the playoff game.

How did you get into the green?
You are by far the dumbest ****ing poster on this board.
Tell us how much Bowe sucks again.

Bump
08-13-2012, 08:59 PM
it was pretty damn good D but an elite WR would come up with that, but it's not a drop you can be mad at.

beach tribe
08-13-2012, 09:00 PM
it was pretty damn good D but an elite WR would come up with that.

Maybe the majority of the time, but not every time.

Simplicity
08-13-2012, 09:01 PM
it was pretty damn good D but an elite WR would come up with that, but it's not a drop you can be mad at.

You know if the CB was a little taller, Cassel wouldn't of made that throw. /cp

Que Card QB
08-13-2012, 09:06 PM
He catches it, just before the defender rips his left arm down... Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

Shaid
08-13-2012, 09:23 PM
He catches it, just before the defender rips his left arm down... Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

LMAO

Simplicity
08-13-2012, 09:30 PM
Does a bear shit in the woods?

J Diddy
08-13-2012, 09:58 PM
I've seen Bowe drop much easier passes, so what's that say?

In the end zone. For the win.

BigMeatballDave
08-13-2012, 10:23 PM
In the end zone. For the win.:rolleyes:

Then he flexed...

KCtotheSB
08-13-2012, 10:29 PM
There's really a 150 post topic about one borderline play during the first preseason game?

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 10:33 PM
Incomplete.

It happens.

Sex Panther Drop King Baldwin

41.2% of the time, it works every time.

Phobia
08-13-2012, 11:07 PM
There's really a 150 post topic about one borderline play during the first preseason game?

I'm not sure it's really about a play. Seems to me it's about one idiot who types 160 WPM telling Baldwin he needs stronger hands to make that catch. Dude has never caught anything but an underhand pass from Uncle Badtouch his entire life but suddenly he thinks this is a routine catch. It's very curious. It's almost as bad as the Ryan Sims pick.

Count Alex's Losses
08-13-2012, 11:18 PM
LMAO

Aspengc8
08-14-2012, 08:02 AM
a pass deemed 'catchable' that hits the receivers hands before anything else = drop. Don't care how tight the coverage, that hit his hands before they got a hand in there.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-14-2012, 08:08 AM
No/thread

jspchief
08-14-2012, 08:13 AM
How did you get into the green?
You are by far the dumbest ****ing poster on this board.
Tell us how much Bowe sucks again.I swear to god there must be a secret society where all the worst posters gather and commit to constantly pos repping each other to keep them all in green.

Graystoke
08-14-2012, 08:14 AM
Good D. Baldwin had two defenders giving him the Dutch Rudder, so no drop pass.

Inspector
08-14-2012, 08:21 AM
After watching that a few times it looks like the defender pulls Baldwins head around with his left hand. Maybe the uncalled face mask had something to do with the incompletion?

I would agree with Mr. philfree. The more I look at it, the more it looks like his head was turned due to an uncalled facemask.

CoMoChief
08-14-2012, 08:23 AM
He dropped it, but it was obviously contested.

You would like for him to make that grab but he didn't, who cares.

At least 7/10 times I'd say he makes that catch.

King_Chief_Fan
08-14-2012, 08:25 AM
Make the call.

http://i.imgur.com/Lz1Gr.gif

nope, only a moron would say that he did

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-14-2012, 08:29 AM
Gaaaaaay!!!!/Chang

Phobia
08-14-2012, 08:29 AM
He dropped it, but it was obviously contested.

You would like for him to make that grab but he didn't, who cares.

At least 7/10 times I'd say he makes that catch.

I think you're on the generous side but other than that, I think we're thinking pretty closely. Plus I know you've played some ball so at least I can respect where you're coming from.

Phobia
08-14-2012, 08:34 AM
a pass deemed 'catchable' that hits the receivers hands before anything else = drop. Don't care how tight the coverage, that hit his hands before they got a hand in there.

I'd be more inclined to agree if he actually has a chance to pull it in to his body but that ball is incredibly vulnerable in the fingertips there. Add the other dynamics of running as fast as he can to even get to the ball along with a dive and inevitable crash to the ground and that ball just doesn't get caught very often at all.

With all due respect, you haven't posted often and I simply don't have any idea. Are you a football player or just a watcher?

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-14-2012, 04:01 PM
LMAO Now Baldwin is getting his ass reamed for the "dropsies".