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View Full Version : Chiefs Daboll has to prove it again...


petegz28
08-13-2012, 04:49 PM
I liked the playcalling Friday night. It was agressive, well tempoed and the execution was crisp. Biggest improvement I saw in the playcalling to the last 5, yes 5 years was the lack of sideways passing. We started throwing the ball sideways a lot when Solari took over at OC and it just got worse from there.

We heard over the years that Cassel was only capable of the sideways pass. We threw it sideways once a series at least. Perhaps Daboll figures if he don't call the sideways routes then Cassel can't throw it sideways?

That being said I think we need to see it again and again throughout the pre-season. The Rams will be a bit more agressive with it being game #2 and at their house. I want to see more slants, screens and posts. Then again if Hilis and Charles tear it up then **** it, don't throw the damn ball!

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-13-2012, 04:51 PM
NFC West. Won't count./cp

petegz28
08-13-2012, 04:53 PM
NFC West. Won't count./cp

I know you're being sarcastic but given that it's pre-season I don't care. In fact maybe it's better because we can get some rythm executing. Anyhow, we dominated the Cards as we should have and we should dominate the Rams as well. DV always used to say "you have to keep losing teams losing". Haley couldn't do it, pre-season or otherwise.

CoMoChief
08-13-2012, 04:55 PM
I think this offense will be better simply because Haley isn't in one ear while the OC is in the other saying 2 different things. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind closed door or what is being said in the headset, but judging how we would always be rushing to the line to snap the ball with 7-8 seconds left on the playclock, I'm guessing Haley was a real problem on the headset.

Having a more well defined game plan and coaches being on the same page will only help this team.

L.A. Chieffan
08-13-2012, 04:55 PM
Just move the chains

petegz28
08-13-2012, 04:56 PM
I think this offense will be better simply because Haley isn't in one ear while the OC is in the other saying 2 different things. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind closed door or what is being said in the headset, but judging how we would always be rushing to the line to snap the ball with 7-8 seconds left on the playclock, I'm guessing Haley was a real problem on the headset.

Having a more well defined game plan and coaches being on the same page will only help this team.

Wait a second. You mean getting to the line with like 15-20 seconds makes a difference than getting to the line with 7-8????

petegz28
08-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Just move the chains

The last time I can recall us being effective going sideways was with Kimble Anders and then it wasn't a whole lot of the sideways we saw under Haley.

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:00 PM
Of the passes Cassel completed Friday night, the only one we haven't seen before with regularity was the big gainer to McCluster.

Everything else was stuff we did with regularity under Haley.

So please don't mislead people.

L.A. Chieffan
08-13-2012, 05:00 PM
The last time I can recall us being effective going sideways was with Kimble Anders and then it wasn't a whole lot of the sideways we saw under Haley.

New England goes sideways a lot. Hell Vermeils offense was all about it.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:01 PM
Of the passes Cassel completed Friday night, the only one we haven't seen before with regularity was the big gainer to McCluster.

Everything else was stuff we did with regularity under Haley.

So please don't mislead people.

We also saw the sidways pass to the WR for no yards once a series under Haley. The difference between Haley and Daboll was Haley ran the same passes Daboll did when it was 3rd and forever as opposed to Daboll doing it on 1st and 10.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:02 PM
New England goes sideways a lot. Hell Vermeils offense was all about it.

I don't remember a ton of sideways under DV and don't recall NE running a ton of sideways. I am not talking about slants or 5 yard outs. I am talking about that snap the ball, turn and fire to the WR who never takes a step forward before making the catch.

|Zach|
08-13-2012, 05:03 PM
That being said I think we need to see it again and again throughout the pre-season. The Rams will be a bit more agressive with it being game #2 and at their house. I want to see more slants, screens and posts. Then again if Hilis and Charles tear it up then **** it, don't throw the damn ball!

This always happens on here. At first its like "well we gotta see them play\coach" then its all "well yea they did it for one game we gotta see it more in the preseason" which transitions to "we need to see this when it actually counts"

Which all of that is true but...do any of us really feel any preseason stuff that we see is predictive for regular season. I feel like the proof is in the pudding...and absolutely no pudding gets served until games count.

|Zach|
08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
I don't remember a ton of sideways under DV

wut

Mr. Laz
08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
we have to see everything each week

Crennel,Daboll,offense,defense,special teams


the finish line isn't until the end of the season

|Zach|
08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
Of the passes Cassel completed Friday night, the only one we haven't seen before with regularity was the big gainer to McCluster.

Everything else was stuff we did with regularity under Haley.

So please don't mislead people.

Yea, because you thought he was going to rewrite the rules of football and do things the world has never seen?

Munson
08-13-2012, 05:04 PM
I want to see Baldwin more involved in the passing game this week.

LOCOChief
08-13-2012, 05:05 PM
Funny how good players make coaching look good, but I like the vertical pass game as well and hope it sticks around.

Of course it can't be proven one way or another at this point but I think this team is more talented than any Chiefs team in the last 25+ years.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:06 PM
This always happens on here. At first its like "well we gotta see them play\coach" then its all "well yea they did it for one game we gotta see it more in the preseason" which transitions to "we need to see this when it actually counts"

Which all of that is true but...do any of us really feel any preseason stuff that we see is predictive for regular season. I feel like the proof is in the pudding...and absolutely no pudding gets served until games count.

If we were the Pats or the Saints I agree. Given the way we have looked the last 5 years (3-17) in the pre-season at least, if not longer then I'd say yes, things tend to be bit more telling. I do want to see it again. I want to see the consistency. I want to see Daboll say "this is how we roll".

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Yea, because you thought he was going to rewrite the rules of football and do things the world has never seen?

Not at all.

Just correcting Frankie. He thinks we did stuff Haley never did.

Those short out patterns to McCluster were a Haley favorite.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:10 PM
wut

I don't. Not the kind of sideways we saw with Haley. Could I be wrong? Sure but I just don't recall that being the play that was called every series like that shotgun draw was.

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:10 PM
We also saw the sidways pass to the WR for no yards once a series under Haley. The difference between Haley and Daboll was Haley ran the same passes Daboll did when it was 3rd and forever as opposed to Daboll doing it on 1st and 10.

I have news for you.

The Patriots, with Cassel, ran those WR screens all the fucking time.

With great success, actually.

Sideways passes can be effective when the players executing them don't suck.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:10 PM
Not at all.

Just correcting Frankie. He thinks we did stuff Haley never did.

Those short out patterns to McCluster were a Haley favorite.

Yeah but Haley ran then 1-2 yards deep if that. The shortest pass Cassel completed, save the screen, was 8 yards down field, not 8 yards sideways.

Coogs
08-13-2012, 05:11 PM
If we were the Pats or the Saints I agree. Given the way we have looked the last 5 years (3-17) in the pre-season at least, if not longer then I'd say yes, things tend to be bit more telling. I do want to see it again. I want to see the consistency. I want to see Daboll say "this is how we roll".

I agree. And even though it is maddning to have negative plays, I wouldn't mind seeing a holding penalty or something against us so we have something like a 2nd and 16 situation. Can we overcome some adversity?

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:11 PM
Yeah but Haley ran then 1-2 yards deep if that.

No. That is wrong. Should I show you a fucking GIF?

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:12 PM
No. That is wrong. Should I show you a ****ing GIF?

:facepalm:

Yes, Clay..show us 1 play so we can pretend that is the tell all.

headsnap
08-13-2012, 05:12 PM
Not at all.

Just correcting Frankie...

you calling pete Frankie? LMAOLMAOLMAO

Mr. Laz
08-13-2012, 05:13 PM
Funny how good players make coaching look good, but I like the vertical pass game as well and hope it sticks around.

Of course it can't be proven one way or another at this point but I think this team is more talented than any Chiefs team in the last 25+ years.
The players are not significantly different from last year.

So you're saying that all Haley needed was Winston and Hillis to be a decent head coach? Don't forget not having Bowe yet. The player so many people say is irreplaceable.

bullshit

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:13 PM
I agree. And even though it is maddning to have negative plays, I wouldn't mind seeing a holding penalty or something against us so we have something like a 2nd and 16 situation. Can we overcome some adversity?

Not a bad idea. It's going to happen so might as well get some practice at it.

saphojunkie
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Yea, because you thought he was going to rewrite the rules of football and do things the world has never seen?

I believe he was hoping to see someone grease up the football, shove it deep up his ass, hold his breath, then shoot it out like the Human Cannonball.

Just a guess.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Haley exceled so much at the sidways pass for none yards than when they actually worked and we found ourselves in 3rd and short he had no fucking clue of what to do.

Coogs
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Not a bad idea. It's going to happen so might as well get some practice at it.

That's my thoughts. In the past, that type of thing lead directly to a punt. I want to see if Daboll and Cassel can overcome those type os situations.

LOCOChief
08-13-2012, 05:16 PM
The players are not significantly different from last year.

So you're saying that all Haley needed was Winston and Hillis to be a decent head coach? Don't forget not having Bowe yet. The player so many people say is irreplaceable.

bullshit

No actually I thought at the end of last season through the start of training camp and during AZ game the team looked more prepared than they have in a long time.

But I also think that this team has more talent than it has in 25 + years.

I'm excited for this season.

chiefzilla1501
08-13-2012, 05:20 PM
The players are not significantly different from last year.

So you're saying that all Haley needed was Winston and Hillis to be a decent head coach? Don't forget not having Bowe yet. The player so many people say is irreplaceable.

bullshit

When ou have Matt cassel as your qb and your starting rb is Jackie battle....

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 05:28 PM
Yeah but Haley ran then 1-2 yards deep if that. The shortest pass Cassel completed, save the screen, was 8 yards down field, not 8 yards sideways.

Haley sucked. What was even worse was the constant HB Draws on 3rd and 7. McCluster got to run that play far more than the screen passes and he still averaged 4.5 YPC or whatever it was.

Mr. Laz
08-13-2012, 05:29 PM
No actually I thought at the end of last season through the start of training camp and during AZ game the team looked more prepared than they have in a long time.

But I also think that this team has more talent than it has in 25 + years.

I'm excited for this season.
i understand but you said 'funny how good players make coaches look good'

Well Haley had much the same players and looked like shit

If anything i would say it's much more appropriate for us to say 'funny how good coaching lets good players actually play good'


anyway ... we should dominate against the Rams too.

A better test will be against Seattle

Green Bay will be the last game of the preseason so there is no telling who is even going to play.


Hell ... we could be a greatly improved team this year and still go 2-4 to start the season.

week 1 - Atlanta (playoff level team who has to be getting desperate)
week 2 - @Buffalo (much like us ... their house gives edge)
week 3 - @Saints (ouch, unless turmoil gets there ass)
week 4 - Chargers (first game we will be favored and it's no gimme)
week 5 - Baltimore (at arrowhead, but always tough)
week 6 - @Tampa Bay (have no idea what they are going to be but road game)

some serious shit to state the season ... might only be favored in 1 game out of the beginning 6.

Mr. Laz
08-13-2012, 05:31 PM
When ou have Matt cassel as your qb and your starting rb is Jackie battle....
the starting QB is still Matt Cassel and Haley is the one who put DMC at running back etc.

Haley was a POS

mdchiefsfan
08-13-2012, 05:36 PM
NFC West. Won't count./cp

hahaha

DTLB58
08-13-2012, 05:38 PM
The Rams D-Line should be somewhat of a challenge. They do have some players that can pass rush.

Steven Jackson looked fresh and healthy against the Colts Sunday.

Sam Bradford is an upgrade over Skelton and Kolb or whoever the Cards trotted out there.

Gotta play UP to your opponent.

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:39 PM
Haley sucked. What was even worse was the constant HB Draws on 3rd and 7.

Did you like the draw we ran on the second third down of the game last Friday? ROFL

That didn't get a first down? ROFLROFLROFL

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:39 PM
you calling pete Frankie? LMAOLMAOLMAO

Shit...honest mistake. LMAO

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:43 PM
Haley was in over his head. And for some reason I think he let his personal feelings about Cassel get in the way. E.G. Daddy telling him he couldn't win with Cassel or whatever. A good coah can make turn make the best of what he has, sorta how Weis did.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Did you like the draw we ran on the second third down of the game last Friday? ROFL

That didn't get a first down? ROFLROFLROFL

Haven't watched it yet. Maybe it worked because Haley didn't call it? Daboll probably isn't as predictable as that horrible POS of a coach. One thing is for sure, Daboll won't force his offense on anyone. He will play to the players strengths like Weis did. We won't be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole this year.

LOCOChief
08-13-2012, 05:51 PM
If anything i would say it's much more appropriate for us to say 'funny how good coaching lets good players actually play good'



Agreed.

The personel is much the same with some key additions like Hillis and Winstrom. But the developement of some of those same guys is becoming evident. Potential doesn't mean shit if not realized.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-13-2012, 05:52 PM
When ou have Matt cassel as your qb and your starting rb is Jackie battle....

How anyone can still defend Haley after the way the team started last year is beyond me....and then the Jets game happened. What a fucking embarrasment.

dirk digler
08-13-2012, 05:53 PM
duh

petegz28
08-13-2012, 05:55 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HEUigHo9gLE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 05:58 PM
Haven't watched it yet. Maybe it worked because Haley didn't call it?

Plenty of Haley's draws worked.

That sprint draw was actually pretty lethal with Charles.

Not so much with Dex, TJ 2.0.

Gee, wonder why.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 06:00 PM
Plenty of Haley's draws worked.

That sprint draw was actually pretty lethal with Charles.

Not so much with Dex, TJ 2.0.

Gee, wonder why.

Charlie Weis?

DaneMcCloud
08-13-2012, 06:01 PM
This is new information

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Plenty of Haley's draws worked.

That sprint draw was actually pretty lethal with Charles.

Not so much with Dex, TJ 2.0.

Gee, wonder why.

Sorry man but the HB Draws are part of what got him fired. Charles rarely ran those draws. Depsite Dex running the majority of them, he still managed to find plays elsewhere.

Are you defending Haley?

dirk digler
08-13-2012, 06:04 PM
This is new information

lol

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 06:15 PM
Sorry man but the HB Draws are part of what got him fired. Charles rarely ran those draws.

He ran them all the fucking time in 2010.

You people. LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-13-2012, 06:39 PM
Clay is right about the draws. Charles was deadly on them in 2010. It is a damn lethal play with the right player and he fits the bill.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 06:42 PM
Clay is right about the draws. Charles was deadly on them in 2010. It is a damn lethal play with the right player and he fits the bill.

Fair enough. What's it say when you keep calling that same play with Jones and Battle?

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-13-2012, 06:44 PM
Fair enough. What's it say when you keep calling that same play with Jones and Battle?

Bad playcall on 3rd and 5 plus with those guys. With Charles though, I have no problem at all with an occasional draw in that situation.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 06:44 PM
Bad playcall on 3rd and 5 plus with those guys. With Charles though, I have no problem at all with an occasional draw in that situation.

I have no problem with the occasional draw either. But we beat it to death.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-13-2012, 06:53 PM
Did you like the draw we ran on the second third down of the game last Friday? ROFL

That didn't get a first down? ROFLROFLROFL

You are talking about the one to Draugn (sp?) right? That was not a draw. It was a HB sweep out of the shotgun formation. There was no delay and the QB never brought the ball up. It was just a hand off and was completely different.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2012, 07:28 PM
I liked the playcalling Friday night. It was agressive, well tempoed and the execution was crisp. Biggest improvement I saw in the playcalling to the last 5, yes 5 years was the lack of sideways passing. We started throwing the ball sideways a lot when Solari took over at OC and it just got worse from there.

We heard over the years that Cassel was only capable of the sideways pass. We threw it sideways once a series at least. Perhaps Daboll figures if he don't call the sideways routes then Cassel can't throw it sideways?

That being said I think we need to see it again and again throughout the pre-season. The Rams will be a bit more agressive with it being game #2 and at their house. I want to see more slants, screens and posts. Then again if Hilis and Charles tear it up then **** it, don't throw the damn ball!



daboll doesn't have to prove shit in preseason......because its preseason.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-13-2012, 07:29 PM
daboll doesn't have to prove shit in preseason......because its preseason.
Posted via Mobile Device

Completely disagree

Count Zarth
08-13-2012, 07:34 PM
You are talking about the one to Draugn (sp?) right? That was not a draw. It was a HB sweep out of the shotgun formation. There was no delay and the QB never brought the ball up. It was just a hand off and was completely different.

Couldn't remember, thanks.

Still a running play on third down, which drove anyone here nuts when we ran it under Haley and it didn't work.

The fact we did it in our first preseason game with a brand new OC is a pretty good sign of who our QB is. We've been doing it for three years. Nothing new, again.

ChiefGator
08-13-2012, 07:40 PM
It could also be they decided they were in four down territory and tried a running play hoping it would get the first down. It did not, but they got it on a Cassel sneak on fourth down.

petegz28
08-13-2012, 07:43 PM
daboll doesn't have to prove shit in preseason......because its preseason.
Posted via Mobile Device

Horse



Shit


They all have to prove something. We have been 3-17 in preseason the last 5 years. 2 of those years we made it to the playoffs. One of those years it was because we won and 3 other teams on the bubble lost at home.

In other words, sucking at the lowliest levels of suck in the pre-season "generaly" don't translate into good things for the regular season.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-14-2012, 06:16 AM
Couldn't remember, thanks.

Still a running play on third down, which drove anyone here nuts when we ran it under Haley and it didn't work.



True that. Hopefully, it's not a sign of things to come and it was just putting some pressure on Draughn to get the first. Too bad he didn't.

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 07:37 AM
I don't remember a ton of sideways under DV and don't recall NE running a ton of sideways. I am not talking about slants or 5 yard outs. I am talking about that snap the ball, turn and fire to the WR who never takes a step forward before making the catch.

I hate that play more than just about anything. We would do that shit all of the fucking time and I think it only worked twice.

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 07:39 AM
In another thread, I said I wanted us to look like a real NFL team, not like the high school JV team we've been fielding in the preseason for the last ten years. We did it for that game now let's carry it over to the next one.

ptlyon
08-14-2012, 07:44 AM
I hate that play more than just about anything. We would do that shit all of the ****ing time and I think it only worked twice.

I may not be remembering correctly, but I think the only time last year, and maybe ever, that we did an actual slant play, was against the colts. It worked, and never did it again. Stupid.

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 07:50 AM
I may not be remembering correctly, but I think the only time last year, and maybe ever, that we did an actual slant play, was against the colts. It worked, and never did it again. Stupid.

I've been wondering that shit for years. "What the fuck happened to the slants?"

ptlyon
08-14-2012, 07:55 AM
I've been wondering that shit for years. "What the **** happened to the slants?"

I think they are doable even by Cassels standards

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 08:01 AM
I think they are doable even by Cassels standards

Cassel can throw the slants, we just never called them really. I really hope we completely remove the WR bubble screen from the playbook. That shit rarely works, yet it would be called like 6 times a game.

Big Smoke
08-14-2012, 08:01 AM
I think slants typically get receivers knocked the fuck out. I do remember that play though, it was a slant to Bowe that went for a TD.

Big Smoke
08-14-2012, 08:02 AM
Cassel can throw the slants, we just never called them really. I really hope we completely remove the WR bubble screen from the playbook. That shit rarely works, yet it would be called like 6 times a game.

Bubble screen < dog shit

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-14-2012, 08:14 AM
The bubble is a damn popular play around the league. You guys even watch other games?

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 08:44 AM
The bubble is a damn popular play around the league. You guys even watch other games?

Everyone has seen it with other teams and it can work from time to time. BUT, when you do it 6 times a game and it didn't work one time, you might want to do something else.