PDA

View Full Version : Electronics Apple overhauling its 30 pin connector


Deberg_1990
08-14-2012, 11:18 AM
:facepalm:

Only Apple.....



http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/14/apple-is-creating-an-e-waste-problem/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29


What happens when you change one port? Quite a lot, actually. Apple introduced the 30-pin iPod port on April 28, 2003. That makes the technology – a fairly streamlined solution for 2003 – nine years old and, thanks to the iPhone’s popularity, essentially ubiquitous. Now, however, as news leaks about either a 19- or 9-pin overhaul of the technology, there’s something important to consider: the install base of 30-pin devices is wild and deep and a simple change could create an e-waste problem if not properly handled.

To be clear: this new pin layout is coming and it’s coming soon. Whether it arrives in this generation or the next still remains to be seen, the sources I reached out to agreed that the switch was imminent.

Apple has sold over approximately 610 million devices with a 30-pin dock connector. There are no hard numbers on iPod dock sales available, but analysts estimate $2 to $3 billion in sales on iPod accessories per year. These are back of the envelope calculations, but assume a fourth of those are $100 docks – some are less, some are much more. That gives us about 5 million docks a year over nine years. That’s 45 million devices in essentially perfect working order that will be partially obsoleted by this move.

“Just imagine how many hotel rooms are fitted with alarm clocks that have a 30-pin dock connector,” said Arman Sadeghi, CEO of AllGreenRecycling, an e-waste handler. “Doing away with the 30-pin dock connector without developing any kind of backwards compatibility option would cause millions of pieces of accessories to become obsolete prematurely. Currently, there are tens of thousands of different devices such as chargers, alarm clocks, docking stations and other devices that work with the 30-pin connector. If this connector was replaced, it would cause a slow but very steady flow of those items coming out of use and into the ewaste stream.”

In short, Apple would relegate a great number of iPod docks to the scrap heap. Arguably, the vast majority of users, especially users using more expensive docks that connect to home entertainment systems and speakers, would invest in a small adapter that will convert a 30-pin jack to the smaller model, but a fraction of those will relegate those old docks to the junk pile. Once the 30-pin is phased out, however, there’s the secondary problem of obsolete iPods.

“The obvious problem will be with people throwing out old accessories but there is another issue as well,” said Sadeghi. “The value of Apple devices with the old connector will drop as well which will cause a large wave of those items entering the eWaste steam as well. iPods and other small devices that people have had for many years will start becoming less desirable in favor of newer versions that will have the same connector as their new iPhone. This effect may, in fact, prove to be a bigger generator of eWaste than the obsolete accessories.”

This sort of move isn’t new, but I suspect that this might be the first major mass exodus from one port architecture to another since serial connections gave way to USB and even that move took years to complete. Apple is notorious for railroading users into technologies although they usually pick the tech that eventually proves to be the winner (there’s a reason there weren’t Compact Flash card readers on earlier MacBooks before the addition of the SD card slot.) Where Apple is at fault is in the speed with which they’re going to push this through. They will sell millions of iPhones and millions of adapters, and the new port will also revitalize the stagnant accessories market. But it will also encourage long-time users to “upgrade” their docks to support the new standard (or at least spend $10 on a compatible adapter).

It’s also not Apple’s fault that accessory makers hitched their wagon to the Apple star. There was and is a lot of money to be made. But this change will change things considerably and the trash and recycling it will generate is has the potential to be more than impressive.

The real impact can be seen as negligible. Docks are made of plastic and a few magnets. In a perfect world those docks would end up at an ewaste location where they will be recycled into new products or they will end up in the garage sale and secondary market, used by millions who just don’t want to or can’t upgrade.

But in a world of increasingly scarce resources, it’s an interesting thought exercise to see what a minor change in on port on a popular phone can do to an entire ecosystem of accessories. Apple is lucky that an industry made hardware solely for their devices. Now we’re about to see what happens when that industry – and the consumers who bought into that constellation of accessories – suddenly has to shift direction.

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Are you seriously trying to criticize them for updating 10 year old technology? LOL... yeah. That's never happened before. Only Apple....

vailpass
08-14-2012, 11:34 AM
What are the benefits to this overhaul Fish?

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:39 AM
It was necessary to reduce the overall thickness of the phone. The 30 pin connector wouldn't fit the new chasis. Expect something much smaller.

And that's a good thing. The 30 pin connector never was a great fit. It's too wide and bulky, which creates a lot of pressure on the horizontal axis.

vailpass
08-14-2012, 11:40 AM
It was necessary to reduce the overall thickness of the phone. The 30 pin connector wouldn't fit the new chasis. Expect something much smaller.

And that's a good thing. The 30 pin connector never was a great fit. It's too wide and bulky, which creates a lot of pressure on the horizontal axis.

Thanks Fish.
They get that phone any thinner people will be able to chop lines with it.
Sounds like some accessories may no longer work?

Ace Gunner
08-14-2012, 11:40 AM
"But it will also encourage long-time users to “upgrade” their docks"

"Encourage". Heh.

I've used macs since '88 for my business.

"D" connectors are approximately 40 years old by design, yet they are still very popular because they are a good shake.

This is a money grab.

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:42 AM
"But it will also encourage long-time users to “upgrade” their docks"

"Encourage". Heh.

I've used macs since '88 for my business.

"D" connectors are approximately 40 years old by design, yet they are still very popular because they are a good shake.

This is a money grab.

No.

L.A. Chieffan
08-14-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm not a Apple fan by any means but they've had the same thing for TEN YEARS. Get over it.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 12:04 PM
It would be nice if they sold an adapter to convert existing accessories to the new design.

loochy
08-14-2012, 12:05 PM
usb?

qabbaan
08-14-2012, 12:18 PM
Nice "heads I win, tails you lose" in the OP.

If Apple updates their 10 year old connector, people say they just want to make you buy a new one (which is silly because you'd get one with any new device that requires it). If they stick with the old one, people say they won't abandon their proprietary technology.

The Apple connector is much more fully featured than other connectors are. It has stereo audio output, as well as dual channel line in and out. It has video out for three different standards. It communicates in USB and FireWire.

The size of the connector is antiquated today and they can eliminate 6-8 just by removing FireWire and s- video.

My guess is that they will use a shuffle-like connector in the future where the headphone jack doubles as the connector, but may e data transfer rates still need to be faster and video is still valuable through the current connector.

But, if you're a kneejerker who knows nothing about the subject, it's good message board fodder.

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 12:23 PM
Another fucking reason I'll never buy Apple.

Why not just make a simple micro USB like EVERY OTHER FUCKING ELECTRONIC DEVICE?

Fish
08-14-2012, 12:24 PM
It would be nice if they sold an adapter to convert existing accessories to the new design.

That will happen for sure.

L.A. Chieffan
08-14-2012, 12:31 PM
Another fucking reason I'll never buy Apple.

Why not just make a simple micro USB like EVERY OTHER FUCKING ELECTRONIC DEVICE?

micro usb doesnt have video or audio i dont think

Fish
08-14-2012, 12:31 PM
Another fucking reason I'll never buy Apple.

Why not just make a simple micro USB like EVERY OTHER FUCKING ELECTRONIC DEVICE?

Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

Baby Lee
08-14-2012, 12:37 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

Is USB 3 still too slow to xfer HQ data with the developments of compression tech, or are they just wedded to old protocols.

I can send 720p DD 5.1 MKV, as well as uncompressed OTA HD, over wifi to my bluray player.

Ace Gunner
08-14-2012, 12:39 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

This is a pic of the connector panel on a Mac Mini which I have used to xfer plenty of video, audio and large PS data files. http://www.shoutpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/image.jpg.

loochy
08-14-2012, 12:41 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

usb + hdmi?

Rausch
08-14-2012, 12:45 PM
Are you seriously trying to criticize them for updating 10 year old technology? LOL... yeah. That's never happened before. Only Apple....

Look how long they fought the unwinnable fight with G series (IBM/Motorola) chips...

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 12:48 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

Bullshit.

loochy
08-14-2012, 12:49 PM
Bullshit.

Dude never question the Big Apple.

Baby Lee
08-14-2012, 12:50 PM
This reminds me, anyone know the cheapest place to get a decent [or at least reliable] AC to USB adapter?

The single worst complaint I have about my Touch is that charging it requires a powered USB port.

They had an adapter at MicroCenter, but it was $30

loochy
08-14-2012, 12:51 PM
This reminds me, anyone know the cheapest place to get a AC to USB adapter?

The single worst complaint I have about my Touch is that charging it requires a powered USB port.

did you check monoprice?

Fish
08-14-2012, 12:52 PM
This is a pic of the connector panel on a Mac Mini which I have used to xfer plenty of video, audio and large PS data files. http://www.shoutpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/image.jpg.

That's a nice picture. But it's completely irrelevant.

The new iPhone has a single connection port. Not 5 different ports like what you're showing in your pic. Combine all those functions of those 5 different ports into one connector, and then it would be comparable.

The new iPhone has to have a single connector, one port, that must transfer power, multiple audio channels both in and out, video in and out in multiple formats, data transfer in and out, etc. All that has to fit into one connector while keeping all those different functions separated from each other. For the 30 pin connector, each of those 30 pins would be considered a separate "channel" so to speak. Lots of those are bunched together for a single function, but that should give you the idea.

Just micro USB doesn't provide enough separate "channels" to transfer all the stuff in and out of the iPhone. Something new had to be created.

Fish
08-14-2012, 12:54 PM
Bullshit.

LMAO... OK......

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 12:55 PM
micro usb doesnt have video or audio i dont think

Yes it can.

It does require an MHL adaptor, though.

-King-
08-14-2012, 12:58 PM
That's a nice picture. But it's completely irrelevant.

The new iPhone has a single connection port. Not 5 different ports like what you're showing in your pic. Combine all those functions of those 5 different ports into one connector, and then it would be comparable.

The new iPhone has to have a single connector, one port, that must transfer power, multiple audio channels both in and out, video in and out in multiple formats, data transfer in and out, etc. All that has to fit into one connector while keeping all those different functions separated from each other. For the 30 pin connector, each of those 30 pins would be considered a separate "channel" so to speak. Lots of those are bunched together for a single function, but that should give you the idea.

Just micro USB doesn't provide enough separate "channels" to transfer all the stuff in and out of the iPhone. Something new had to be created.

Which of those functions can't you do with a micro USB?

L.A. Chieffan
08-14-2012, 12:59 PM
Yes it can.

It does require an MHL adaptor, though.

yeah, lots of things can do other things with an adaptor.

Baby Lee
08-14-2012, 01:02 PM
Which of those functions can't you do with a micro USB?

Just struck me, my uncompressed OTA HD is stored on my MyBook. Which, although my PC's USB ports are 3.0, the Drive itself is 2.0.

1080i and DD 5.1, UNCOMPRESSED playing in real time, @ USB 2.0.

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 01:08 PM
yeah, lots of things can do other things with an adaptor.

Its not a complicated device.

Its a pass-thru. Video still passes thru the micro USB.

Fish
08-14-2012, 01:08 PM
Look:

http://image.pinout.net/pinout_USB_files/pinout-microUSB.png

http://www.getusb.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/040611a.jpg

Now you tell me...... can you see the discrepancy?

A lot of what you think is happening on that micro USB cable is actually done by the board of the device, and not the port. For what Apple is doing, there's no way in hell to make it work using micro USB.

L.A. Chieffan
08-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Its not a complicated device.

Its a pass-thru. Video still passes thru the micro USB.

like i said, im not an apple fanboi but the connector they use is an all-in-one. it needs NO adaptor to do ANYTHING. Is there any other port on a phone that can do that?

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 01:18 PM
like i said, im not an apple fanboi but the connector they use is an all-in-one. it needs NO adaptor to do ANYTHING. Is there any other port on a phone that can do that?

What does it need to do, other than transfer data?

Micro USB will charge my phone while I transfer files from a PC.

Fish
08-14-2012, 01:28 PM
What does it need to do, other than transfer data?

Micro USB will charge my phone while I transfer files from a PC.

LMAO.... well... a lot actually.... but judging from your previous responses, I don't think you'd understand the explanation. Let's just say that the separate piping method that they use has many advantages in power consumption, adaptability, and reliability.

Ace Gunner
08-14-2012, 01:29 PM
That's a nice picture. But it's completely irrelevant.

The new iPhone has a single connection port. Not 5 different ports like what you're showing in your pic. Combine all those functions of those 5 different ports into one connector, and then it would be comparable.

The new iPhone has to have a single connector, one port, that must transfer power, multiple audio channels both in and out, video in and out in multiple formats, data transfer in and out, etc. All that has to fit into one connector while keeping all those different functions separated from each other. For the 30 pin connector, each of those 30 pins would be considered a separate "channel" so to speak. Lots of those are bunched together for a single function, but that should give you the idea.

Just micro USB doesn't provide enough separate "channels" to transfer all the stuff in and out of the iPhone. Something new had to be created.

I am a recording engineer. I work with audio and video projects and use USB or FW when I stream to/from external drives all the time.

When I record a drummer, I often use 12 channels & mics to do so, sometimes 16 channels and it is all streamed using USB A/B. It is all handled using USB shake.

It used to be FW was a more robust shake, but USB has become proficient too.

loochy
08-14-2012, 01:31 PM
LMAO.... well... a lot actually.... but judging from your previous responses, I don't think you'd understand the explanation. Let's just say that the separate piping method that they use has many advantages in power consumption, adaptability, and reliability.

don't forget proprietary connector sellability

qabbaan
08-14-2012, 01:39 PM
don't forget proprietary connector sellability

The connector comes with the device. As a convenient bonus, all their devices for a decade have been using the same connector, so many people have a few lying around.

I don't think connectors are going to matter so much in the future, because data will move via wireless, and charging can be accomplished without a separate port, such as is done by the new iPod shuffle.

Fish
08-14-2012, 01:42 PM
don't forget proprietary connector sellability

Of course. But the purpose of the proprietary connector is not solely for monetary reasons. It gives them a lot more engineering control over backward/forward compatibility and future implementations. It's actually quite an amazing feat that the 30 pin connector lasted this long, while the devices that use it have gone through such dramatic hardware changes.

And don't forget that you can always find a 3rd party knockoff 30 pin adapter for <$5.

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 01:43 PM
LMAO.... well... a lot actually.... but judging from your previous responses, I don't think you'd understand the explanation. Let's just say that the separate piping method that they use has many advantages in power consumption, adaptability, and reliability.

Typical Apple Fanboi condescending reply.

Eat shit.

qabbaan
08-14-2012, 01:45 PM
I am a recording engineer. I work with audio and video projects and use USB or FW when I stream to/from external drives all the time.

When I record a drummer, I often use 12 channels & mics to do so, sometimes 16 channels and it is all streamed using USB A/B. It is all handled using USB shake.

It used to be FW was a more robust shake, but USB has become proficient too.

The first few iPods had FireWire as an option (as you know I am sure, but for the benefit of others...). At the time, FireWire was much faster than USB. Today as USB standards have progressed, there is no demand for FireWire.

The 30 pin connector was not some effort at fragmentation by Apple, it was an effort to allow several devices to consolidate to a single port.

People aren't connecting printers with parallel or serial cables anymore, either. Once a decade, moving to a new standard that is modern is acceptable for a hardware manufacturer, IMO. Hardly a cash grab.

We now return you to the guys who probably complain that you can't connect devices to your TV anymore with those y-plugs you needed a Phillips screwdriver to attach...

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Snake oil.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 02:06 PM
Typical Apple Fanboi condescending reply.

Eat shit.

I don't even like Apple (I'm a Microsoft fanboy) and what he is saying makes sense to me.

Per usual, you are too stupid to get it.

Fish
08-14-2012, 02:08 PM
I am a recording engineer. I work with audio and video projects and use USB or FW when I stream to/from external drives all the time.

When I record a drummer, I often use 12 channels & mics to do so, sometimes 16 channels and it is all streamed using USB A/B. It is all handled using USB shake.

It used to be FW was a more robust shake, but USB has become proficient too.

Transferring audio from an external drive to a computer is very different.

Think of it like comparing COAX cable to HDMI cable when connected to a flatscreen TV. COAX has a single wire that transmits all data(video/audio) at once, that is separated by the TV receiver when it gets there. HDMI has separate pins corresponding to different data, that is sent separately. Both cables do the same thing, transmit video and audio. But COAX sends the data in one single chunk, while HDMI splits it up into different manageable channels.

COAX, by sending all data at once, requires a lot more work to be done by the TV receiver. That translates into more energy consumption and reliance on the receiver to do all the work.

rocknrolla
08-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Another ****ing reason I'll never buy Apple.

Why not just make a simple micro USB like EVERY OTHER ****ING ELECTRONIC DEVICE?

THIS!

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 02:27 PM
I fucking hate Apple.

They changed their pin configuration on their iPods a few years back, so my non-Apple docking stations no longer charge iPods of any generation and last I checked, there is no adapter.

I got sucked into the iPhone 4s bullshit last year and absolutely hate that piece of battery hogging shit.

Fuck Apple.

Baby Lee
08-14-2012, 02:30 PM
Transferring audio from an external drive to a computer is very different.

Think of it like comparing COAX cable to HDMI cable when connected to a flatscreen TV. COAX has a single wire that transmits all data(video/audio) at once, that is separated by the TV receiver when it gets there. HDMI has separate pins corresponding to different data, that is sent separately. Both cables do the same thing, transmit video and audio. But COAX sends the data in one single chunk, while HDMI splits it up into different manageable channels.

COAX, by sending all data at once, requires a lot more work to be done by the TV receiver. That translates into more energy consumption and reliance on the receiver to do all the work.

Why do you think D/A conversion and A/V separation consumes more energy on one device rather than another?

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 02:32 PM
I fucking hate Apple.

They changed their pin configuration on their iPods a few years back, so my non-Apple docking stations no longer charge iPods of any generation and last I checked, there is no adapter.

I got sucked into the iPhone 4s bullshit last year and absolutely hate that piece of battery hogging shit.

Fuck Apple.

I like their mobile products.

I despise their desktop/laptops.

DaFace
08-14-2012, 02:33 PM
Is there an official reason why Apple refuses to adopt standards in their technologies? Seems like that would avoid a ton of headaches with stuff like this.

DaFace
08-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

Micro HDMI can, can't it?

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 02:36 PM
I like their mobile products.

I despise their desktop/laptops.

That's cool. We have an iPad 2 and 3, two iPhones, two iTouches and several iPod of different vintage.

I feel like the iPads are just toys, the iTouches mini versions of the iPad, and the iPhones virtually worthless. I greatly preferred my Blackberry 9750 (or whatever it was) over the iPhone 4s due to the size, ease of keyboard use and service (although that's slightly unfair because T-Mobile is a million times better than Sprint in SoCal).

And their desktops and laptops are way overpriced garbage. Upgrades are virtually impossible and I think their OS is a clunky and crappy.

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 02:37 PM
Is there an official reason why Apple refuses to adopt standards in their technologies? Seems like that would avoid a ton of headaches with stuff like this.

Yes, there is: Steve Jobs is a dick, even in death.

Silock
08-14-2012, 02:39 PM
I fucking hate Apple.

They changed their pin configuration on their iPods a few years back, so my non-Apple docking stations no longer charge iPods of any generation and last I checked, there is no adapter.

I got sucked into the iPhone 4s bullshit last year and absolutely hate that piece of battery hogging shit.

Fuck Apple.

What kind of times are you seeing on your battery?

Mine easily lasts 2 days, and that's with a lot of web surfing. The only time it gets really bad is when I'm streaming data over "4G." I can go from 100% - 80% with an hour and a half of streaming 610 sports. That may have more to do with the app than anything else, though.

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 03:17 PM
What kind of times are you seeing on your battery?

Mine easily lasts 2 days, and that's with a lot of web surfing. The only time it gets really bad is when I'm streaming data over "4G." I can go from 100% - 80% with an hour and a half of streaming 610 sports. That may have more to do with the app than anything else, though.

A half a day battery life, at most. My wife experiences the same thing. And this is with double tapping and shutting down open programs and with Suri off.

I'm surprised you're is so much better. When did you purchase it?

|Zach|
08-14-2012, 03:35 PM
The final rulings are in.

Thread - 1
Dave - 0

Good job. Good effort.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 03:35 PM
Is there an official reason why Apple refuses to adopt standards in their technologies? Seems like that would avoid a ton of headaches with stuff like this.

It's difficult to differentiate your product from the competition (and charge a premium) when it's the same.

Frazod
08-14-2012, 03:37 PM
I'm fine with my current iPhone 4. And I simply find it impossible to believe that this Suri thing works the way the commercials show. I can have an actual meaningful conversation with my phone? Yeah, right.

In any event, I'll hold off until an adapter is created or I can buy the cords on monoprice. Either that or I'll switch to another device. Fuck these greedy scumbags.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 03:37 PM
A half a day battery life, at most. My wife experiences the same thing. And this is with double tapping and shutting down open programs and with Suri off.

I'm surprised you're is so much better. When did you purchase it?

I get about a day of battery life.

Thankfully i'm near a charger at my job, my car, and at home, so that's never been an issue.

Siri, at this point in time, is worthless to me. Anytime I :hmmm: and try to use it for something useful, it says it can't do it.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm fine with my current iPhone 4. And I simply find it impossible to believe that this Suri thing works the way the commercials show. I can have an actual meaningful conversation with my phone? Yeah, right.

In any event, I'll hold off until an adapter is created or I can buy the cords on monoprice. Either that or I'll switch to another device. Fuck these greedy scumbags.

Siri is actually much slower than it is in the commercials.

I think monoprice will sell the cables on the cheap so i'm not too worried about that.

Frazod
08-14-2012, 03:40 PM
Siri is actually much slower than it is in the commercials.

I think monoprice will sell the cables on the cheap so i'm not too worried about that.

I assume it would be too traumatized to talk to me after getting cussed out 50 times a day.

Fish
08-14-2012, 04:12 PM
A half a day battery life, at most. My wife experiences the same thing. And this is with double tapping and shutting down open programs and with Suri off.

I'm surprised you're is so much better. When did you purchase it?

There's something wrong with your situation. What is your charging method?

Fish
08-14-2012, 04:32 PM
This page probably explains everything much better than I'm able...

USB is undeniably elegant. When you plug a USB device into your computer, the drivers for that device are automatically loaded and your PC suddenly knows how to talk with it. Even to an average person, those USB pins make perfect sense. What else would you want a connector to do besides move data and power in and out of a device?

The problem with USB, though, is that it was designed as a protocol to standardize PC peripherals: keyboards, mice, digital cameras, printers, disk drives, that sort of thing. In other words, USB expects that you’ll be using a traditional desktop computer to load drivers to access an accessory.

The problem with USB is that it expects you’ll be using a traditional desktop computer at one end.

And that’s the problem. Your iPhone, your iPad, your iPod… sure, these are all computers, but they don’t load drivers. In conventional desktop computing terms, these are still accessories. So how do you get one accessory to talk to another accessory without drivers?

That’s where Apple’s 30-Pin Dock Connector comes in. It allows an iPhone, an iPad or an iPod to talk directly to compatible accessories, no drivers required. It’s the soul of Apple’s billion-dollar iPod, iPhone and iPad accessory empire. And it’s secretly one of the best inventions Apple’s ever made.


When Apple first debuted the original iPod back in 2001, it didn’t use the 30-Pin Apple Dock Connector we all know and hate/love today… it used Firewire, Apple’s own answer to USB, to pump juice and data from a Mac into their portable music player. Starting in 2003, though, Apple suddenly dropped the standard Firewire connector and adopted the proprietary 30-Pin Apple Dock Connector they use today.

The reason Apple did this was simple: the iPod had become such an iconic device, such an extension of self for so many people, that accessory makers were clamoring to be able to build iPod-compatible hardware. By switching to a proprietary Dock Connector, Apple could not only allow accessory makers to easily make their devices communicate with an iPod without drivers, they could also launch a profitable “Made for iPod” licensing business.

By switching to 30 pins, Apple allowed accessories to easily communicate with iPods without drivers, launching a profitable “Made for iPod” licensing business.

The 30-Pin Dock Connector is what allowed Apple to turn the iPod, then the iPhone and iPad, into the hub of so many people’s digital lives. Thanks to the Apple Dock Connector, we have cars that can speak with our iPhones or iPads, televisions that can suck movies from our iPods and display them 50-inches high, and an endless and affordable array of iPod-compatible toys, peripherals, accessories and speaker docks.

We’ve already seen that a USB connector only has four pins: two for data, one for power and one for ground. It’s up to a connected computer to be able to load drivers to be smart and powerful enough to translate the data coming from a USB device into a format it can actually work with.

The 30-Pin Apple Dock Connector works quite differently, though. Each pin has a specific function, and all a compatible accessory needs to do is watch what data is coming through the specific pins it needs to provide that device’s functionality.

Think of the Apple Dock Connector like a lock, and a compatible accessory like a key. In any lock, there are a number of tumblers; for a key to open that lock, it needs to be precisely cut so that its ridges trip those tumblers and then unlock, say, a door or a box.

That’s how the 30-Pin Apple Dock Connector works. While two of those thirty pins do provide USB data-in and data-out for the purposes of syncing, the rest have very specific functions. The result is that if you plug your iPhone into, say, a speaker dock, the speaker dock’s connector is configured so that it only trips the pins it needs: in this case, audio out and power in. An accessory made to display video from your iPod classic on your TV, on the other hand, will be configured to only watch the video out and audio out pins. And so on.

It’s actually extremely elegant. The original 30-Pin Dock Connector was a remarkably future-proof design, and Apple has added functionality to many of the blank pins over time; until now, there’s a pin for nearly every function an accessory could possibly want to provide. The benefits for accessory makers are huge, because they don’t have to make devices with power-hungry CPUs to try to figure out and translate all of the data coming in and out of an iDevice into a format it can actually use.

After nine years, it’s in Apple’s vested interest to make make a smaller, better Dock Connector.

But there’s a catch. While the Apple Dock Connector has lasted almost a decade without a significant design change, it’s one of the bulkiest components of an iPhone or iPad. That makes the Dock Connector a big bottleneck when it comes to slimming down future iPhones and iPads and giving them better battery life. After nine years, it’s in Apple’s vested interest to make a smaller, better Dock Connector.

The 30-Pin Apple Dock Connector is one of the most efficient, versatile, future-proof and forward-thinking gadgets Apple has ever made. Even today, the principle behind the Apple Dock Connector is inherently sound, and much more empowering to both accessory makers and consumers alike than micro USB. As a bonus, because it’s a proprietary standard, Apple makes a tidy sum licensing the technology to third parties.

It’s a fantastic invention… so fantastic that, even after ten years, Apple has no reason to abandon it. The only thing they need to do to keep the Dock Connector relevant is slim it down by ditching the pins no one needs anymore. And once Apple does that with the iPhone 5, expect the new, slimmer, 19-Pin Apple Dock Connector to last another ten years… until we finally ditch tethering our iDevices to other gadgets once and for all.

Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/178093/the-future-of-apples-dock-connector-feature/#glugmzUsVPiGmKZT.99

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 04:55 PM
I don't even like Apple (I'm a Microsoft fanboy) and what he is saying makes sense to me.

Per usual, you are too stupid to get it.

Kill yourself.

Hateful fucking douche.

Baby Lee
08-14-2012, 05:13 PM
This page probably explains everything much better than I'm able...

So basically the connector is teh rxxors because

it can be plugged into cheapo dummy hardware

it can be plugged into hardware that runs old tech like composite, S-video and analog audio [the latter, btw, could be done by the headphone jack]

it proprietary so Apple can collect fees from vendors

it loads all the power consumption jobs onto the portable device with a non-removable battery

it'll be phased out someday when Apple catches up with the rest of the world.

When latched to an external device, Apple's portable tech is basically a data storage medium.

With WiFi and/or Ethernet, there's no reason not to dock your device to a PC and send the signal to point of use hardware.

And its not true that a PC is demanded, my cheapo blu-ray player accepts both memory sticks and my portable HD plugged directly into the USB onboard, besides accepting WiFi from the PC.

morphius
08-14-2012, 05:23 PM
This has been about the only thing I've been jealous of as an android user, i'd be shocked if they didn't have an adapter for it. If they start a trend of changing it and not having an adapter it will bite them in the butt a bit, the question is, how much. Automobiles, home stereo's, etc are not things people are wanting to trade out because Apple decided to change their plug.

Saulbadguy
08-14-2012, 07:19 PM
Kill yourself.

Hateful fucking douche.

It's not my fault that you are on the wrong side of nearly every single argument as of late.

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Read the reply above yours before capslocking like a whiny child. Micro USB can't transmit the required amount of data protocols for these devices. It's insufficient for what Apple does.

That's completely false. Look at Samsung and HTC which have implemented MHL over a microUSB connector.

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 07:41 PM
Yes it can.

It does require an MHL adaptor, though.

Samsung, htc, etc it's built in.

I can plug my current phone or even my OLD phone directly into my monitor for video and sound.
(and it charges at the same time)

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Look:

http://image.pinout.net/pinout_USB_files/pinout-microUSB.png

http://www.getusb.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/040611a.jpg

Now you tell me...... can you see the discrepancy?

A lot of what you think is happening on that micro USB cable is actually done by the board of the device, and not the port. For what Apple is doing, there's no way in hell to make it work using micro USB.

You ready for a tech beat down? :D I'll give you a chance to back off this line of thinking before I put the hammer down....

Guru
08-14-2012, 07:52 PM
:popcorn:

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 07:53 PM
From a pure technical aspect... there are some slight advantages to having a proprietary solution like Apple has. That is FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the inconvenience of it. The ONLY reason they can get away with it at all is because #1 they were the only major successful player int he iPod space so their proprietary bullshit became the de facto standard. and #2 most Apple users (even the ones that THINK they are tech savvy) are NOT tech savvy enough to reject Apple's bullshit excuses for why they don't use STANDARDS like the rest of the world.

*rant*
Seriously, Fuck Apple.. and Sony too.. they try to pull this shit as well. USE THE FUCKING STANDARDS ASSHOLES. Steve Jobs can go to hell... ooops too late.
*/rant*

Fish
08-14-2012, 07:59 PM
You ready for a tech beat down? :D I'll give you a chance to back off this line of thinking before I put the hammer down....

LOL... yeah OK. If you think so. Read the entire article in my last post, and tell me if your opinion changes.

The design of the 30 pin connecter is about efficiency.

The original 30-Pin Dock Connector was a remarkably future-proof design, and Apple has added functionality to many of the blank pins over time; until now, there’s a pin for nearly every function an accessory could possibly want to provide. The benefits for accessory makers are huge, because they don’t have to make devices with power-hungry CPUs to try to figure out and translate all of the data coming in and out of an iDevice into a format it can actually use.

Apple basically gave accessory makers a defined pinout board. Driver free.

If you're an accessory creator, the following makes it incredibly efficient to create devices and support that have direct access to only the data you care about, and zero overhead of data that is irrelevant to its function. In no way can you understate the importance of that. And the future version will be just as future-proof, because the concept is so solid.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3382/originalfb.jpg

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 08:21 PM
LOL... yeah OK. If you think so. Read the entire article in my last post, and tell me if your opinion changes.

The design of the 30 pin connecter is about efficiency.

Apple basically gave accessory makers a defined pinout board. Driver free.

If you're an accessory creator, the following makes it incredibly efficient to create devices and support that have direct access to only the data you care about, and zero overhead of data that is irrelevant to its function. In no way can you understate the importance of that. And the future version will be just as future-proof, because the concept is so solid.


I read your posts... and they make excellent points... back in 2003. Hell maybe even 2004. There is ZERO reason to stay proprietary now.

The cost (in dollars and power) of USB controller chips is negligible. You don't need a "power hungry CPU." That is just ridiculous.

If you want to argue that "back in the day" it was necessary... I will let that slide... but if you argue that it is necessary NOW.. you are dead wrong(from a technical standpoint).

BigMeatballDave
08-14-2012, 08:25 PM
It's not my fault that you are on the wrong side of nearly every single argument as of late.

Just because you don't agree, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Fish
08-14-2012, 08:37 PM
I read your posts... and they make excellent points... back in 2003. Hell maybe even 2004. There is ZERO reason to stay proprietary now.

The cost (in dollars and power) of USB controller chips is negligible. You don't need a "power hungry CPU." That is just ridiculous.

If you want to argue that "back in the day" it was necessary... I will let that slide... but if you argue that it is necessary NOW.. you are dead wrong(from a technical standpoint).

The points are just as relevant today. Because they planned so well, this form factor was able to last 9 years. Only physical size is preventing it from continuing its usefulness.

USB controller chips are irrelevant. Because they transfer bulk data through one pipe(Data+), and leave it up to the CPU of the receiving device to decode everything and extract only the relevant information pertaining to its function. Splitting the data into only the applicable pieces you need has been the standard for evolution of just about all forms of data transfer. All technology has developed more pipes and multiple processors to reduce overall load. Multi core processors are a perfect example. Divide and conquer algorithm.

And one of the reasons that they're reducing the size is indeed because it's no longer necessary to port so many protocols independently. That's not a surprise. In regards to the 30 pin connector, firewire support is no longer necessary. That's how they easily cut down to 19 pins.

DaFace
08-14-2012, 08:49 PM
Nerd fight!

Fish
08-14-2012, 08:53 PM
Nerd fight!

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3929/nerddorkfightglasses463.jpg

My bow tie hides multiple blades bitch......

Silock
08-14-2012, 09:02 PM
A half a day battery life, at most. My wife experiences the same thing. And this is with double tapping and shutting down open programs and with Suri off.

I'm surprised you're is so much better. When did you purchase it?

Wow, that really sucks. Maybe it has something to do with Sprint and searching for cell towers? I dunno.

I bought my first one on pre-order, so it was in the first batch of shipments that came in. It also had great battery life, but I accidentally dropped it in a glass of Kool-Aid and killed it. Thank god I purchased AppleCare plus and got a new one. But the battery life on it is the same as the old one. My wife's doesn't have any battery issues, either, and she's on it all day long for work.

Have you tried calibrating the battery with the Battery Doctor app?

Silock
08-14-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm fine with my current iPhone 4. And I simply find it impossible to believe that this Suri thing works the way the commercials show. I can have an actual meaningful conversation with my phone? Yeah, right.

In any event, I'll hold off until an adapter is created or I can buy the cords on monoprice. Either that or I'll switch to another device. Fuck these greedy scumbags.

It's not as good as the commercials portray, but it's not as bad as you'd think, either.

I only use Siri when I'm driving, so that I don't have to look down at the screen to type and take my eyes off the road. It works very well for that.

Fish
08-14-2012, 09:06 PM
Also interesting relating Apple...

Per their patent activity... Kinda cool...

Why Apple Will Turn to Holograms (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-07/why-apple-will-turn-to-holograms#p1)

Look around your office hallway or college campus and you’ll see people holding interactive panes of glass. Smartphones and tablets, so revolutionary a few years ago, are quickly becoming commodities. Apple (AAPL) is now locked in a fierce patent battle with Samsung over tablet designs—a sure sign that, whoever is right, touchscreens are converging into gadgets that look like everything else.

So as Apple prepares to launch its next iPhone in September, with a slightly bigger screen, here is a prediction—Apple devices will soon project holograms like you’ve never seen. This is not mere speculation, but insight based on Apple’s patents, recent acquisitions, and the business imperative to do something to break free of the tablet clutter.

In November 2010, Apple patented a three-dimensional display system that would “mimic a hologram” without requiring special glasses. The patent narrative is fascinating, noting that one current market gap in screen technology is the ability of a device to project stereoscopic 3D images to multiple viewers at the same time.

Apple proposed an elegant solution: match a forward-facing camera/sensor that tracks the location of different viewers’ eyes, similar to how Microsoft’s (MSFT) Kinect monitors body movements or new digital cameras recognize human faces, with a screen that can send out beams of light at different angles. Voilà! Each eye of each viewer receives a different angle of the image, and suddenly Princess Leia would appear to beam out of R2-D2 and float in the air.

I know what you’re thinking—3D screens have been around for a while, but consumers have not flocked to them. Overall, television sales are in a slump (LCD sales were down 3 percent worldwide in the first quarter after years of 20 percent growth), and consumers who recently upgraded to flat panels did not rush out to buy the 3D versions manufacturers dreamed would goose the market. Even 3D tech that doesn’t require glasses has not sold well; Nintendo (NTDOY) sales of its 3DS gaming device, which floats images without glasses, were so anemic in 2011 that it dropped the price from $250 to $170 just five months after launch.

If 3D has been such a yawn, why would Apple get involved? There are three main reasons.

Apple is the second-mover that makes failed first-mover ideas work. Apple lifted the idea for the mouse from Xerox, streamlined it, coated the rotating ball in rubber so it would be quiet on a desktop, and dropped the price. Apple launched its touchscreen iPhone and iPad years after Microsoft tried to go to market in 2002 with a pen-based Tablet PC. Apple redesigns technology to remove the rough edges, and consumerså respond in droves. Toshiba is now selling a 55-inch 3D television in Asia that doesn’t require glasses for viewing the effect. Do you think Apple will let such advances in screen technology pass it by?

Second, Apple’s hologram technology will be different—and completely realistic. The Apple patent states, “Each viewer could be presented … with complete freedom of movement … without the need for special viewing goggles or headgear.”

Read that as the hologram will remain realistic even if you and your friends move around the room, and you won’t look like a doofus watching it. The Apple patent also explains how the monitoring sensor would pick up and replicate ambient lighting in the room—creating, say, a projection of a business colleague floating at your conference table with light from the window gleaming in her hair.

Finally, in perhaps its most unique trick, the Apple hologram system would detect who is watching, and be able to display different images to different people. The patent says “individual observers … can be uniquely identified based upon distinctive personal characteristics (e.g., height, shoulder width, distinctive outline, etc.),” allowing outbound beamed projections to be changed for each observer. This would enable everything from private holograms to personalized advertising. In business video calls, you could project yourself in a suit for the upper executives in the room and a more relaxed view of yourself in jeans for the younger tech hipsters.

Apple must forge a new direction, because not only will its patent lawyers have difficulty claiming rights to all tablet designs, the touchscreen may soon be obsolete. Walt Disney (DIS), not known for being a gadget leader, recently announced its R&D division has developed “swept frequency capacitive sensing” that turns virtually any material into a touchscreen. Called Touché, the system would allow couches, doorknobs, clothing, and even water to sense your movement or finger swipes, making touchscreens irrelevant. If you can type on a tabletop, the need for a tablet may disappear.

Beyond its 3D patent, Apple has acquired 3D modeling businesses such as C3 Technologies and Poly9, both known for building photorealistic images of the world. C3 Technologies, for instance, used declassified military technology and aerial photography to model any potential mountain, building, or home in three dimensions—reportedly accurate to within 6 inches. Apple’s upcoming map apps could be more interesting than you expect.

Apple also has a monetary incentive to chase 3D: True screen differentiation would boost sales of all Apple products. Apple could finally break into the television market and own the living room; holography could unlock revenue streams from business communications, with Apple “reality projection” videoconferencing making Skype look like a telegraph. Apple has been rumored for years to be developing real TV sets, but needs a way to break into the saturated big-screen market. If its holography were to top Toshiba’s design, there surely would be interest.

As tablets become commodities, it’s not hard to predict the design battle will move from hardware to the virtual visual realm. Even Sir Jonathan Ive can take glass panes only so far. I don’t know if an iPhone 5 will hold holograms, but eventually Apple will serve us 3D images—because while anyone can copy a glass tablet, not everyone can make the world float in your hand.

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 10:12 PM
The points are just as relevant today. Because they planned so well, this form factor was able to last 9 years. Only physical size is preventing it from continuing its usefulness.

USB controller chips are irrelevant. Because they transfer bulk data through one pipe(Data+), and leave it up to the CPU of the receiving device to decode everything and extract only the relevant information pertaining to its function. Splitting the data into only the applicable pieces you need has been the standard for evolution of just about all forms of data transfer. All technology has developed more pipes and multiple processors to reduce overall load. Multi core processors are a perfect example. Divide and conquer algorithm.

And one of the reasons that they're reducing the size is indeed because it's no longer necessary to port so many protocols independently. That's not a surprise. In regards to the 30 pin connector, firewire support is no longer necessary. That's how they easily cut down to 19 pins.

Your knowledge of this subject is not so good... based on what you seem to be trying to grasp at... you'd think this
http://www.cutedigi.com/images/parallel_cable.jpg
should never have been replaced!

btw.. no one is talking about USB as the actual BUS just using the USB connector (like MHL does) so your argument which was ridiculously wrong technically also fails on the fact that it simply doesn't apply.

Oh and your USB info is woefully out of date.. the CURRENT standard is the 11-pin USB 3 micro.. as used by the Samsung Galaxy sIII and any newer phones. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB_3.0_Micro_B_plug.svg

Fish
08-14-2012, 10:24 PM
Your knowledge of this subject is not so good... based on what you seem to be trying to grasp at... you'd think this
http://www.cutedigi.com/images/parallel_cable.jpg
should never have been replaced!

btw.. no one is talking about USB as the actual BUS just using the USB connector (like MHL does) so your argument which was ridiculously wrong technically also fails on the fact that it simply doesn't apply.

Oh and your USB info is woefully out of date.. the CURRENT standard is the 11-pin USB 3 micro.. as used by the Samsung Galaxy sIII and any newer phones. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB_3.0_Micro_B_plug.svg

Yes the Parallel protocol was perfect. That's exactly what I meant.

USB3 micro is only 11 pins. That won't work.

Silock
08-14-2012, 10:26 PM
Hey, who gives a shit, really? If you get a new device, you'll get the new connector. If you don't, you won't have to worry about it.

What's the big deal? Every phone is going out of date eventually.

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 10:31 PM
Hey, who gives a shit, really? If you get a new device, you'll get the new connector. If you don't, you won't have to worry about it.

What's the big deal? Every phone is going out of date eventually.

The big deal is that it is proprietary bullshit. Which DOES make it a money grab and a blatant attempt to lock people into a format that only works with their licensed products. YAY! Let's all by bullshit Sony products so we can use their shitty memory sticks instead of what everyone else uses.

micro USB 3 (as a connector) can do everything you need to get done...

Fish
08-14-2012, 10:38 PM
Hey, who gives a shit, really? If you get a new device, you'll get the new connector. If you don't, you won't have to worry about it.

What's the big deal? Every phone is going out of date eventually.

Apple is a shitty greedy company for using the same adapter for every single one of their mobile devices over a 9 year period of technology change. Providing nearly seamless driver free connectivity to an entire host of media interfaces throughout those 9 years. This is a terrible thing.

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 10:47 PM
There's something wrong with your situation. What is your charging method?

I allowed the phone to completely die for the first month before charging. Now, I don't charge until it reaches 20% battery life. It's used mainly for email through the Exchange server, some Safari and Facebook and of course, the phone itself.

I don't get reception through Sprint in my home, so it's rarely on here because it's worthless. I always connect to a wireless connection when available, although Wireless Detection is turned off.

My wife has the same exact issue with her phone, as do most people I know that have the iPhone 4s. Any insight or advice would be welcome.

WoodDraw
08-14-2012, 10:58 PM
USB3 micro is only 11 pins. That won't work.

Aren't the current leaks of Apple's new design 9 pin?

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:00 PM
I allowed the phone to completely die for the first month before charging. Now, I don't charge until it reaches 20% battery life. It's used mainly for email through the Exchange server, some Safari and Facebook and of course, the phone itself.

I don't get reception through Sprint in my home, so it's rarely on here because it's worthless. I always connect to a wireless connection when available, although Wireless Detection is turned off.

My wife has the same exact issue with her phone, as do most people I know that have the iPhone 4s. Any insight or advice would be welcome.

You don't get reception through Sprint at home, but that's your carrier? When phones can't establish a consistent connection with their network, they tend to freak the fuck out and overwork themselves searching for a network non stop. Have you tested it somewhere where you have good provider coverage? Is that the only carrier available?

If you have an Exchange account set up, it will try Push notification. If you don't have a consistent connection to your provider, that would probably be bad. You could test some things with turning off Data, or Push notification for e-mail, etc. But I'd bet it's the fact that your provider is spotty where you spend the most time out of the day.

Also, do you overcharge the battery? Leaving it plugged in overnight, past the point that the battery is 100%? That can be really bad for the battery as well to leave it plugged in past full charge.

AustinChief
08-14-2012, 11:06 PM
Apple is a shitty greedy company for using the same adapter for every single one of their mobile devices over a 9 year period of technology change. Providing nearly seamless driver free connectivity to an entire host of media interfaces throughout those 9 years. This is a terrible thing.

Yes they are a shitty company for not using STANDARDS. Any tech company ..especially hardware... that doesn't use available standards (that can do the job) are assholes.

I never complained about the original connector... one can argue that it was necessary because there wasn't anything else at the time .. one would be an idiot and wrong.. but that's not the topic. The topic is the CURRENT switch from a shitty proprietary connector to ANOTHER shitty proprietary connector... when they could just as easily adopt a standard.

DaneMcCloud
08-14-2012, 11:07 PM
You don't get reception through Sprint at home, but that's your carrier? When phones can't establish a consistent connection with their network, they tend to freak the fuck out and overwork themselves searching for a network non stop. Have you tested it somewhere where you have good provider coverage? Is that the only carrier available?

If you have an Exchange account set up, it will try Push notification. If you don't have a consistent connection to your provider, that would probably be bad. You could test some things with turning off Data, or Push notification for e-mail, etc. But I'd bet it's the fact that your provider is spotty where you spend the most time out of the day.

Also, do you overcharge the battery? Leaving it plugged in overnight, past the point that the battery is 100%? That can be really bad for the battery as well to leave it plugged in past full charge.

I'm pretty sure that Push is off and I leave my phone off at home as well. My wife's is on 24-7 due to the nature of her work, so she charges it a few times a day due to necessity.

The reason we have Sprint is because of the Family Discount Plan. Saving more than a $100 dollars a month over T-mobile sounded good in theory, until we actually used their service.

Thanks for the input! :)

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:16 PM
Yes they are a shitty company for not using STANDARDS. Any tech company ..especially hardware... that doesn't use available standards (that can do the job) are assholes.

I never complained about the original connector... one can argue that it was necessary because there wasn't anything else at the time .. one would be an idiot and wrong.. but that's not the topic. The topic is the CURRENT switch from a shitty proprietary connector to ANOTHER shitty proprietary connector... when they could just as easily adopt a standard.

The number of Apple appliances exceeds the number of components that are adopting STANDARDS. They don't really need compliance. It doesn't serve them any profitable advantage. That's an emotionless asshole corporate Apple response, but it's the truth. And they have the user base saturation to be able to demand a connector change and get away with it. And of course, there will be an adapter available to use existing 30 pin connectors with the new 19 pin connectors.

Fish
08-14-2012, 11:32 PM
You ready for a tech beat down? :D I'll give you a chance to back off this line of thinking before I put the hammer down....

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3929/nerddorkfightglasses463.jpg

Hammer deflected. +15 :D

Guru
08-15-2012, 05:23 AM
You don't get reception through Sprint at home, but that's your carrier? When phones can't establish a consistent connection with their network, they tend to freak the **** out and overwork themselves searching for a network non stop. Have you tested it somewhere where you have good provider coverage? Is that the only carrier available?

If you have an Exchange account set up, it will try Push notification. If you don't have a consistent connection to your provider, that would probably be bad. You could test some things with turning off Data, or Push notification for e-mail, etc. But I'd bet it's the fact that your provider is spotty where you spend the most time out of the day.

Also, do you overcharge the battery? Leaving it plugged in overnight, past the point that the battery is 100%? That can be really bad for the battery as well to leave it plugged in past full charge.
I was under the impression that todays batteries were designed in a way that you couldn't overcharge them.

Bob Dole
08-15-2012, 05:43 AM
Are you seriously trying to criticize them for updating 10 year old technology? LOL... yeah. That's never happened before. Only Apple....

Bob Dole is still pissed that there is no way to connect his iPod Nano to the parallel port on his Compaq 486DX.

Silock
08-15-2012, 09:53 AM
The big deal is that it is proprietary bullshit. Which DOES make it a money grab and a blatant attempt to lock people into a format that only works with their licensed products. YAY! Let's all by bullshit Sony products so we can use their shitty memory sticks instead of what everyone else uses.

micro USB 3 (as a connector) can do everything you need to get done...

Even if it is proprietary, why does it matter? My PC doesn't have a floppy drive any longer... Should I be pissed about that? Point is that things change. Even standards die out. How is this really any different, except that it's made by Apple?

Silock
08-15-2012, 09:56 AM
I allowed the phone to completely die for the first month before charging. Now, I don't charge until it reaches 20% battery life. It's used mainly for email through the Exchange server, some Safari and Facebook and of course, the phone itself.

I don't get reception through Sprint in my home, so it's rarely on here because it's worthless. I always connect to a wireless connection when available, although Wireless Detection is turned off.

My wife has the same exact issue with her phone, as do most people I know that have the iPhone 4s. Any insight or advice would be welcome.

You don't have to wait so long to charge it. Mine charges nearly all the time when I'm at home or in the car. You can't overcharge the battery, so I wouldn't worry about that. It trickle charges once the levels hit 100%.

Also, the more you use any battery, the less life it will have, so any time you can charge it will prolong the life of it.

AustinChief
08-15-2012, 12:05 PM
The number of Apple appliances exceeds the number of components that are adopting STANDARDS. They don't really need compliance. It doesn't serve them any profitable advantage. That's an emotionless asshole corporate Apple response, but it's the truth. And they have the user base saturation to be able to demand a connector change and get away with it. And of course, there will be an adapter available to use existing 30 pin connectors with the new 19 pin connectors.


Are you fucking insane? The number of components adopting standards outweighs Apple by a fucking immense margin. How many phones use micro USB versus apple's shitty connector? If you're talking about gadgets that connect to an iPod, then you're right... but who the fuck cares. iPods are dying off as people use their phones as mp3 players.

I've shown conclusively that there is no legitimate reason other then typical Apple bullshit involved yet you continue to defend them... you are a true believer!

Keep living in the past while Apple settles into its comfortable sub 20% share.

Btw iPads are now well under 50% (if you include all tablets...ie white box)

AustinChief
08-15-2012, 12:11 PM
Even if it is proprietary, why does it matter? My PC doesn't have a floppy drive any longer... Should I be pissed about that? Point is that things change. Even standards die out. How is this really any different, except that it's made by Apple?

I included Sony in my rant. proprietary crap is bad for the consumer. period. floppy drives became obsolete... micro usb is far from being analogous to any outdated tech. If Apple gave a shit about the consumer it would work with the industry instead of against it. Look at IBM, Intel and even Microsoft in recent years.

the Talking Can
08-15-2012, 12:30 PM
throw some gas on this fire

flash done with android devices, or vice versa...

Adobe is pulling its Flash Player plug-in from Android's Google Play store.

It follows a decision to halt development of the software for mobile devices.

Although Adobe is no longer actively developing the player for Android, Blackberry or Symbian devices - and never released it for Apple iOS or Windows Phone handsets - it has said it would continue to offer security updates and bug fixes for existing versions until September 2013.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19267140

Fish
08-15-2012, 12:38 PM
throw some gas on this fire

flash done with android devices, or vice versa...



http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19267140

Ohh Emm Gee y'all! How awful! Evil Android taking away half the internet. The nerve of those guys...

Pitt Gorilla
08-15-2012, 12:43 PM
throw some gas on this fire

flash done with android devices, or vice versa...



http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19267140Didn't we have an entire thread dedicated to Mac products not carrying flash?

Fish
08-15-2012, 12:43 PM
Are you fucking insane? The number of components adopting standards outweighs Apple by a fucking immense margin. How many phones use micro USB versus apple's shitty connector? If you're talking about gadgets that connect to an iPod, then you're right... but who the fuck cares. iPods are dying off as people use their phones as mp3 players.

I've shown conclusively that there is no legitimate reason other then typical Apple bullshit involved yet you continue to defend them... you are a true believer!

Keep living in the past while Apple settles into its comfortable sub 20% share.

Btw iPads are now well under 50% (if you include all tablets...ie white box)

The bolded is not true bud. You're just trying to be difficult.

And regarding the iPad market share, it's still a very long way from 15%. It will be more than a little ironic that the Android tablet you buy me when I win our bet won't have a new version of Flash available.

Silock
08-15-2012, 12:48 PM
Look at IBM, Intel and even Microsoft in recent years.

None of them became the biggest company in the world /shrug

I'm just saying that I own PCs for my computing needs, and some Apple mobile devices. None of the proprietary connectors have ever negatively affected my life or the way I use my Apple products with my PC.

I guess I just don't get it.

WoodDraw
08-15-2012, 12:50 PM
I'm all for standards, but Apple doesn't want to standardize. It benefits by keeping it's iPod/iPhone/iPad products distinct. It won't do anything to hurt it's brand.

If the argument is that Apple should have kept it's old connector vs. the new one, that's nonsense. It's not unreasonable to expect companies to update their technology once a decade.

If the argument is that Apple should have adopted USB, I can buy that. But won't happen.


Also, yes - fuck Sony. 100x.

the Talking Can
08-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Didn't we have an entire thread dedicated to Mac products not carrying flash?

yeah, too lazy to find it....but seem to like to argue about it

BigMeatballDave
08-15-2012, 01:37 PM
Also, do you overcharge the battery? Leaving it plugged in overnight, past the point that the battery is 100%? That can be really bad for the battery as well to leave it plugged in past full charge.
This is not true for any Android phone I've had.

Pitt Gorilla
08-15-2012, 01:58 PM
yeah, too lazy to find it....but seem to like to argue about itHere it is:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=222464

DaneMcCloud
08-15-2012, 02:19 PM
Have you tried calibrating the battery with the Battery Doctor app?

No, I haven't. Is that an installed feature or a download? Thanks for the response! :)

AustinChief
08-15-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm all for standards, but Apple doesn't want to standardize. It benefits by keeping it's iPod/iPhone/iPad products distinct. It won't do anything to hurt it's brand.

If the argument is that Apple should have kept it's old connector vs. the new one, that's nonsense. It's not unreasonable to expect companies to update their technology once a decade.

If the argument is that Apple should have adopted USB, I can buy that. But won't happen.


Also, yes - fuck Sony. 100x.

Yep, this is all I'm saying.. and yet again.. fuck Sony.

AustinChief
08-15-2012, 08:46 PM
The bolded is not true bud. You're just trying to be difficult.

And regarding the iPad market share, it's still a very long way from 15%. It will be more than a little ironic that the Android tablet you buy me when I win our bet won't have a new version of Flash available.

I actually can't find EXACT figures but the white-box segment of JUST ANDROID tablets is set to outsell iPads this year... the problem is... then you have to add in all OTHER tablet sales and the only place I know of to get that info charges like $1000 for the reports. My best guess is that it will be close to 20-25% because Microsoft was too slow to get in the game.. they are going to be almost a full year behind what I thought.

Oh and I think the cutoff was 17% but yeah at this pace it should be close but it looks like you may win. If you're lucky, the timing might work out where Google has their next Nexus out by then!

Silock
08-15-2012, 10:52 PM
No, I haven't. Is that an installed feature or a download? Thanks for the response! :)

It's a download, but totally worth it, IMO.

patteeu
08-16-2012, 08:34 AM
I assume it would be too traumatized to talk to me after getting cussed out 50 times a day.

You can have Siri refer to you as "Appliance Killer" if you want. That will probably keep her appropriately respectful.

AustinChief
09-10-2012, 12:15 AM
and here we have pics of Apple's new NINE pin connector .. yes, that's right two pins less than microUSB3. So even though KCFish's "mo pins equals mo better!" argument was complete bullshit from the get go... it now falls completely apart.

Assuming the pics are accurate and the rumors are correct as well.. the new connector is the same size as microusb and the only advantage is that it appears to be reversible. Of course on the negative side is the issue that NO OTHER COMPANY IN THE FUCKING WORLD uses it.

http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/cable-nouvel-iphone-5-41.jpg

On an semi-related note... it appears that Apple will FINALLY get 4G with the iPhone 5. I have read a number of articles this week that basically are fawning over Apple for this move and how awesome they are. um, I have had 4g phones for THREE YEARS now. It's beyond amazing that anyone would give them credit for finally catching up.

The media fascination with Apple is annoying as hell. They are down to a 16% share of the market and if Microsoft doesn't screw up that will probably fall to the 10-15% range in the next few years. Android has FOUR times the market share and receives LESS media attention. That is just insane.

Great Expectations
09-10-2012, 07:37 AM
The media fascination with Apple is annoying as hell. They are down to a 16% share of the market and if Microsoft doesn't screw up that will probably fall to the 10-15% range in the next few years. Android has FOUR times the market share and receives LESS media attention. That is just insane.

I plan on switching from an iphone to android.

Once there is a single phone out there that has a comparable market share of the iPhone it will probably get similar attention.

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 11:44 AM
bump for discussion of the now official new connector.

L.A. Chieffan
09-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Its called Lightning. Another 100 Billion for Apple

What else is there to discuss?

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 12:10 PM
Its called Lightning. Another 100 Billion for Apple

What else is there to discuss?

I want to hear the excuses made by fanbois for why they didn't just use micro usb3... like everyone else.

Pitt Gorilla
09-12-2012, 04:19 PM
I want to hear the excuses made by fanbois for why they didn't just use micro usb3... like everyone else.They don't want/have to.

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 04:21 PM
They don't want/have to.

Well, they were earlier in this thread...

It's a piece of shit move by Apple that is simply proprietary nonsense and hope it backfires. Unfortunately the fanbois will gargle down any hot load that Apple shoots their way and nary a grumble will be heard.

Pitt Gorilla
09-12-2012, 04:23 PM
Well, they were earlier in this thread...

It's a piece of shit move by Apple that is simply proprietary nonsense and hope it backfires. Unfortunately the fanbois will gargle down any hot load that Apple shoots their way and nary a grumble will be heard.I think you may have misunderstood; Apple doesn't want/have to use another standard.

I'm trying to figure out why it gets your panties in such a bunch. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, fine. Like you said, the market will sort it out, as it always has.

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 04:30 PM
I think you may have misunderstood; Apple doesn't want/have to use another standard.

I'm trying to figure out why it gets your panties in such a bunch. If you don't like it, fine. If others do, fine. Like you said, the market will sort it out, as it always has.

pet peeve. I bitch about Sony for the same crap just as much. I'm a huge standards guy.

But yes, you are being realistic about why Apple is doing. Others have made bogus claims that it was a necessary advancement that was superior to any standard out there.

Pitt Gorilla
09-12-2012, 04:32 PM
pet peeve. I bitch about Sony for the same crap just as much. I'm a huge standards guy.

But yes, you are being realistic about why Apple is doing. Others have made bogus claims that it was a necessary advancement that was superior to any standard out there.Perhaps is it. I just can't imagine giving a **** one way or the other.

jd1020
09-12-2012, 04:38 PM
bump for discussion of the now official new connector.

Don't care, do not buy apple trash.

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 04:41 PM
Perhaps is it. I just can't imagine giving a **** one way or the other.

Like I said. just a pet peeve regarding using standards in electronics/computing. I don't expect anyone else to give 1 shit, much less 2

DaveNull
09-12-2012, 04:46 PM
As for why the company is changing the dock connector that has been on nearly all iPhones and iPods since 2003, Schiller said it simply wasn’t possible to build products as thin as the new iPhones and iPods without changing the cord. Hence, the new “Lightning” connector.

Micro USB might not have achieved this goal. Looking at that Lighting (terrible name) plug the connections are on the outside instead of inside on the micro USB.

Still really annoying after the 30 pin has become essentially ubiquitous.

AustinChief
09-12-2012, 04:59 PM
Micro USB might not have achieved this goal. Looking at that Lighting (terrible name) plug the connections are on the outside instead of inside on the micro USB.

Still really annoying after the 30 pin has become essentially ubiquitous.

The form factor is only a matter of choice. MicroUSB would do the job just fine if Apple was willing to go with the STANDARD form factor. their only excuse is that they REALLY feel that having a reversible plug is THAT important.

NewChief
09-13-2012, 05:33 AM
pet peeve. I bitch about Sony for the same crap just as much. I'm a huge standards guy.

But yes, you are being realistic about why Apple is doing. Others have made bogus claims that it was a necessary advancement that was superior to any standard out there.

It's the American way! Rugged individualism and lack of conformity to standards. Freaking socialists wanting to drag everyone down to the same level and make us all the same. Apple is keeping the American Dream and capitalism alive and well. Like they say, "It's as American as Apple pie."

:evil:

Bob Dole
09-13-2012, 05:37 AM
bump for discussion of the now official new connector.

Bob Dole read an article that implied the devices come with a Thunderbolt adapter. (Gizmodo maybe?)

Saulbadguy
09-13-2012, 05:42 AM
I do like the fact that it's reversible.

htismaqe
09-13-2012, 06:59 AM
Like I said. just a pet peeve regarding using standards in electronics/computing. I don't expect anyone else to give 1 shit, much less 2

I give a shit.

Now I have to get back to studying for my CCDP. :D

KCUnited
09-13-2012, 09:57 AM
Question(s) for you guys.

I am up for an upgrade on my iphone. I am itunes heavy and have all my music stored there. I am a hard collector and still buy CD's and vinyl and import them into my itunes, I don't buy/download digital albums or 1 song here or there, I buy whole hard copies and import them to itunes to put on my phone.

This connector thing has me a bit annoyed plus my wife has an android that has me somewhat impressed. My question(s) is, can an android phone work with itunes, or is there a more ideal player/storage system for android? Also any suggestions on a more optimal player/storage/phone relationship are appreciated.

TIA.

Fish
09-13-2012, 10:11 AM
Question(s) for you guys.

I am up for an upgrade on my iphone. I am itunes heavy and have all my music stored there. I am a hard collector and still buy CD's and vinyl and import them into my itunes, I don't buy/download digital albums or 1 song here or there, I buy whole hard copies and import them to itunes to put on my phone.

This connector thing has me a bit annoyed plus my wife has an android that has me somewhat impressed. My question(s) is, can an android phone work with itunes, or is there a more ideal player/storage system for android? Also any suggestions on a more optimal player/storage/phone relationship are appreciated.

TIA.

Yes, Android phones can work with iTunes. It's not very difficult, and there's a bunch of programs that will help with it. Here's instructions that might help get you started: http://ipod.about.com/od/advanceditunesuse/a/Itunes-Android-What-Works-And-What-Does-Not.htm

But a better solution would probably be dumping iTunes altogether if you're going with Android. There's lots of apps that will transfer your iTunes music library to something else. I'd really recommend Google Music. You can upload some 25,000 songs. Just download the Google Music manager (http://support.google.com/googleplay/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1229970) for either Windows or OS X, and tell it to gobble up your iTunes library. It takes forever, but it will copy all music in your iTunes library to the Google Music cloud. Which can then be played from any device with an internet connection, iOS, Android, OS X, Windows, whatever. It works really really well. It's a pain uploading all your music, because it can take several days depending on how much music you have. But once it's in Google, it works great. I think it's a better solution than Apple's cloud music service.

Fish
09-13-2012, 11:07 AM
So Apple made this connector a lot more simplified than I thought they would. And they sacrificed quite a bit just for the sake of size.

Lightning, as the new connector is called, is described as "all-digital", which seems more obfuscatory than necessary. The basic conceit of this new connector is that at any point in time, not all the pins of the 30-pin connector were active. So, if a particular use case involved the charging pins and some audio pins, or the charging pins and USB pins, why not design a system that provides just enough pins for any given use case. The iPhone senses what pins are being requested and some on-device signaling sends the necessary bits over the available pins.

As an added design feature, the connector is reversible, so you'll never fumble with figuring out what way to put it in, as is so common with USB connectors.

There's much that we still need to dig into with this new connector, but we do know what it is almost surely not. This isn't a faster interface.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6282/apple-introduces-new-8pin-dock-connector-dubs-it-lightning

So instead of piping everything separately on its own pin like they could with the 30 pin connector, they now have to use processing power to monitor each pin for what type of activity is being sent. Which almost completely negates the advantage that the 30 pin connector had. And in doing so, they lost a bunch of functionality that was possible with the 30 pin connector. They're using additional system resources to monitor pins because of shared usage, which makes accessory manufacturers create adapters that are more complicated because they also have to monitor pins for the correct data.

You can find this on Apple's site regarding the new Lightning adapter: “Video and iPod Out not supported.” WTF? Dicks...

That's because it no longer has separate piping or sufficient pins to allow for it. That's pretty disappointing. This new adapter is not really faster at all. And naming it Lightning is just short of hilariously sad.

L.A. Chieffan
09-13-2012, 11:24 AM
If Kc Fish has turned we've lost all hope...

Baby Lee
09-13-2012, 11:30 AM
If Kc Fish has turned we've lost all hope...

If I have lost Kc Fish, I have lost middle America.

Saulbadguy
09-13-2012, 11:36 AM
So...

Pros:
Reversible. I like that, especially when i'm trying to plug my phone in while drunk.

Cons:
Have to use a stupid adapter to get my old chargers to work. I'm 75% sure my cheap Monoprice adapters will work with the adapter but you never know.


Overall, a pretty big FAIL.

Saulbadguy
09-14-2012, 05:54 AM
PRETTY BIG CON HERE:

They are charging $29 for an adapter. TWENTY-NINE FUCKING DOLLARS

Also, not guaranteed to work with older dock speakers. I mean. What?

Guru
09-14-2012, 05:56 AM
Of course they are. It's their way.

DaveNull
09-16-2012, 09:04 AM
People keep asking why Apple didn’t opt for the micro-USB connector. The answer is simple: that connector isn’t smart enough. It has only 5 pins: +5V, Ground, 2 digital data pins, and a sense pin, so most of the dock connector functions wouldn’t work – only charging and syncing would.

- Source (http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/13/boom-2/?utm_source=loopinsight.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+loopinsight%2FKqJb+%28The+Loop%29)

Dave Lane
09-16-2012, 09:09 AM
I don't give a shit and I'll pre-order my iPhone 5 today. I like the iPhone for alot of reasons but jailbreak/free apps is the biggest reason to me.

AustinChief
09-16-2012, 12:34 PM
- Source (http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/13/boom-2/?utm_source=loopinsight.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+loopinsight%2FKqJb+%28The+Loop%29)

Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

Baby Lee
09-16-2012, 02:31 PM
Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

That post has a bajillion edits already and remains full of fail.

It's the KC Chiefs of Mac blog posts.

Zebedee DuBois
09-16-2012, 04:05 PM
Well, I am finally entering the smart phone world. I ordered 4x iPhone4 for a dollar each and got them to waive the activation fees. yeah..2 generations behind. I simply do not care.

BigMeatballDave
09-16-2012, 09:00 PM
jailbreak/free apps is the biggest reason to me.

If you like that, why not Android?

There is FAR more development out there for Android.

Dave Lane
09-16-2012, 09:14 PM
If you like that, why not Android?

There is FAR more development out there for Android.

Do they have a jailbreak to allow getting paid apps free? For testing purposes of course. o:-)

AustinChief
09-16-2012, 09:19 PM
Do they have a jailbreak to allow getting paid apps free? For testing purposes of course. o:-)

We call it ROOTING not jailbreaking.. since Androids don't start out in "jail" like iPhones do. :D And Android has a far higher percentage of free apps to begin with.

htismaqe
09-17-2012, 09:50 AM
We call it ROOTING not jailbreaking.. since Androids don't start out in "jail" like iPhones do. :D And Android has a far higher percentage of free apps to begin with.

I was going to say. I have dozens of free apps on my Androids, including the 1 that isn't rooted (it's my work phone).

-King-
09-17-2012, 09:57 AM
Do they have a jailbreak to allow getting paid apps free? For testing purposes of course. o:-)

You don't even have to root the phone to get free paid apps. Just download the apk file online and install it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Great Expectations
09-17-2012, 08:07 PM
What are the chances of bricking it when rooting?Drinkel gonna get his swerve on.

Shag
09-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

The iPhone 5 is only USB 2.0, so technically, it's correct. Whether they should have gone with 3.0 is a different story...

AustinChief
09-17-2012, 08:50 PM
The iPhone 5 is only USB 2.0, so technically, it's correct. Whether they should have gone with 3.0 is a different story...

Well not really. He is talking about the usb spec not being able to handle certain amperages or not having enough pins. Neither of which really would be dependent on actually utilizing USB 3.0 just utilizing the connection form factor and the charging spec.

Fish
09-17-2012, 10:21 PM
Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

What are you talking about? The MicroUSB connector everyone is familiar with only has 5 pins.

You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.

The microUSB adapter that just about all other phones use, including the revered Galaxy SIII looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img155/1489/microusb.jpg

That's the adapter that everybody is whining about the iPhone 5 not using. But that is a 5 pin adapter. Here's the pinout:

http://imageshack.us/a/img99/2028/microusbb.jpg

5 pins. Apple lost functionality going down to 8 pins, which was stupid in my opinion. But they still needed more than 5 pins. That's what the author is saying.

USB 3 micro does not have 11 pins. What you're likely thinking of is the 10 pin USB 3 Micro B. Which looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/8734/800pxusb30microbplug.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img339/8751/microusb3b.jpg

That's your 10(11ish?) pin connector. But how many devies currently use that? That's what you're arguing with, but that's not what other devices currently use.

And you are also wrong about the amperage part too. MicroUSB like the beloved format everybody wanted, can only transmit 900mA of current.

A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0. There are two types of devices: low-power and high-power. A low-power device draws at most 1 unit load, with minimum operating voltage of 4.4 V in USB 2.0, and 4 V in USB 3.0.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power

The iPad requires 2A of current. MicroUSB does not and cannot provide that, as pointed out above. For reference, the Galaxy SIII requires 700mA.

That blog writer made some stupid errors in writing, which has been pointed out, and the author corrected them. But he does have a point about most of that. You should post an apology on that poor guy's site for hammering on him.

AustinChief
09-17-2012, 11:14 PM
What are you talking about? The MicroUSB connector everyone is familiar with only has 5 pins.

You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.

The microUSB adapter that just about all other phones use, including the revered Galaxy SIII looks like this:


That's the adapter that everybody is whining about the iPhone 5 not using. But that is a 5 pin adapter. Here's the pinout:


5 pins. Apple lost functionality going down to 8 pins, which was stupid in my opinion. But they still needed more than 5 pins. That's what the author is saying.

USB 3 micro does not have 11 pins. What you're likely thinking of is the 10 pin USB 3 Micro B. Which looks like this:


That's your 10(11ish?) pin connector. But how many devies currently use that? That's what you're arguing with, but that's not what other devices currently use.

And you are also wrong about the amperage part too. MicroUSB like the beloved format everybody wanted, can only transmit 900mA of current.


The iPad requires 2A of current. MicroUSB does not and cannot provide that, as pointed out above. For reference, the Galaxy SIII requires 700mA.

That blog writer made some stupid errors in writing, which has been pointed out, and the author corrected them. But he does have a point about most of that. You should post an apology on that poor guy's site for hammering on him.

NO I am not talking about the 5 pin usb. I AM talking about the micro-b usb3 11 pin connector. YES not many devices are using it yet, BUT it is backwards compatible and a STANDARD that more and more devices are using when they need the extra pins. I was lead to believe that certain models of the SIII were using it but if not, who cares? The STANDARD is new but gaining adoption and plenty of devices ARE out there and most importantly.. it's a fucking industry STANDARD.

There was NO REASON for Apple to go with a proprietary connector. PERIOD. Need more pins? Use SuperSpeed micro-b. (and get 2 extra pins for the trouble)

And you are DEAD wrong on amperage. My touchpad pulls 2.2A.. over an OLD USB connector. So, once again you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The problem is getting the power WHILE also communicating. Which USB3.0 (micro-b) will let you do at 1.5A. Plenty. And why even bring up the iPad? it doesn't use the new connector yet so claiming it will need some theoretical amperage is dumb, they could easily set the next model to take in 1.5 while communicating and more when only charging.


You seem to confuse me with those saying it should be the old USB connector. Nope. Use the NEW standard (if you have to) and you'd still be backward compatible with only slight loss of functionality. Instead they introduce an unnecessary proprietary connector.

You can NOT find a technical reason (besides reversibility) that makes sense. Sorry, it just doesn't exist.

AustinChief
09-17-2012, 11:23 PM
You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.


And seriously, fuck off for telling me I posted misinformation. I posted the following...
You REALLY need to do your research BEFORE writing an article on a topic. You’re woefully unprepared and ignorant regarding USB 3.0; a standard that is almost 4 years old now. USB 3.0 can support data speeds of 5 Gbit/s and charge at 1.5A while communicating. It can max out at 5A charging.
There is no TECHNICAL excuse for Apple not to have made the switch.

USB3.0 is almost 4 years old - check
5 Gbit/s - check
charge at 1.5A (with plug/play communication) - check
max at 5A - check

...btw you didn't see many devices jump to use the new connector because they simply don't need the extra bandwidth. If Apple HAS to have more pins.. the standard has been out there for 4 years... use it.

AustinChief
09-17-2012, 11:26 PM
And since you clearly need the technical help.. it's 10 pins + shield which (for those of us with more knowledge of the subject) equals 11 pins.

BigMeatballDave
09-17-2012, 11:35 PM
What are the chances of bricking it when rooting?Drinkel gonna get his swerve on.

Depends on the phone.

What do you have?

Fish
09-17-2012, 11:46 PM
NO I am not talking about the 5 pin usb. I AM talking about the micro-b usb3 11 pin connector. YES not many devices are using it yet, BUT it is backwards compatible and a STANDARD that more and more devices are using when they need the extra pins. I was lead to believe that certain models of the SIII were using it but if not, who cares? The STANDARD is new but gaining adoption and plenty of devices ARE out there and most importantly.. it's a fucking industry STANDARD.

There was NO REASON for Apple to go with a proprietary connector. PERIOD. Need more pins? Use SuperSpeed micro-b. (and get 2 extra pins for the trouble)

And you are DEAD wrong on amperage. My touchpad pulls 2.2A.. over an OLD USB connector. So, once again you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The problem is getting the power WHILE also communicating. Which USB3.0 (micro-b) will let you do at 1.5A. Plenty. And why even bring up the iPad? it doesn't use the new connector yet so claiming it will need some theoretical amperage is dumb, they could easily set the next model to take in 1.5 while communicating and more when only charging.


You seem to confuse me with those saying it should be the old USB connector. Nope. Use the NEW standard (if you have to) and you'd still be backward compatible with only slight loss of functionality. Instead they introduce an unnecessary proprietary connector.

You can NOT find a technical reason (besides reversibility) that makes sense. Sorry, it just doesn't exist.

Ohh. So you wanted Apple to adopt a different new connector, that would have also required all current Apple users to buy new peripherals and adapters and hypothetically put millions of accessory manufacturers out of business? Essentially putting current Apple device owners in the exact same predicament that they're bitching about now? You admit the standard is not new, just like Apple's Lightning.

You were confusing 5 pin microUSB with 10pin microUSB B through the entire thread.

I want to hear the excuses made by fanbois for why they didn't just use micro usb3... like everyone else.

micro usb is far from being analogous to any outdated tech. If Apple gave a shit about the consumer it would work with the industry instead of against it. Look at IBM, Intel and even Microsoft in recent years.

The form factor is only a matter of choice. MicroUSB would do the job just fine if Apple was willing to go with the STANDARD form factor. their only excuse is that they REALLY feel that having a reversible plug is THAT important.

And regarding your old Touchpad pulling 2.2A, that's because it's plugged into a wall adapter. Which doubles up pins to use for power and allows for higher amperage charging. Data pins aren't used when plugged into a charging adapter, and that allows for additional pins to be used for sending another line of power. You're not getting 2.2A from USB 5 pin to USB 5 pin. Hence the communication aspect.

I bring up the iPad, because it cannot be charged by being plugged into a computer's USB port. Because it requires too much amperage. It can only charge when you plug the USB port into the iPad wall charger, which doubles up unused pins to use for increased amps. That's the only way it can currently charge. The next iPad will use the Lightning adapter as well. Apple wanted to consolidate the adapters and have Lightning be the future. As stupid as I think that is, they couldn't have used MicroUSB if they wanted to consolidate. And MicroUSB 3 vB would be no different than switching to Lightning.

Fish
09-17-2012, 11:52 PM
And seriously, fuck off for telling me I posted misinformation. I posted the following...


USB3.0 is almost 4 years old - check
5 Gbit/s - check
charge at 1.5A (with plug/play communication) - check
max at 5A - check

...btw you didn't see many devices jump to use the new connector because they simply don't need the extra bandwidth. If Apple HAS to have more pins.. the standard has been out there for 4 years... use it.

You know damn good and well that the blog author was not talking about comparing Apple Lightning connector to the USB3 Micro V3 11 pin connector. You were confusing the two and talking about qualities of both through the entire thread. And it's clear the blog author wasn't talking about the 11pin connector. That's not what the general populace is enraged about and you know it.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 12:01 AM
Ohh. So you wanted Apple to adopt a different new connector, that would have also required all current Apple users to buy new peripherals and adapters and hypothetically put millions of accessory manufacturers out of business? Essentially putting current Apple device owners in the exact same predicament that they're bitching about now? You admit the standard is not new, just like Apple's Lightning.

You were confusing 5 pin microUSB with 10pin microUSB B through the entire thread.


NO.. YOU may have been confusing the connectors. I have not been. My only fault is assuming all Galaxy SIII's use the new connector. Mea Culpa. BUT don't you dare try to fucking tell me what I WAS thinking or saying. I happen to know this subject, I don't just look up shit on wikipedia. Earlier in the thread, before we knew the pin count... I argued that it could all be accomplished via usb connectors (yes, even 2.0)... and that is still true. BUT since you failed to grasp the concept that "mo pin does NOT equal mo better" I have moved on to something you SHOULD be able to comprehend. It does not invalidate what I posted earlier but the fact that the NEW Apple connector has FEWER pins than one of the standards for USB (micro-b 3.0) COMPLETELY invalidates your entire argument.

AND YES if Apple needs a new connector then use the STANDARD that everyone else will be using and is compatible with the old STANDARD connector as well. I have no problem with them changing connectors. I have never said otherwise. I have a problem that they didn't adopt a STANDARD one instead of another proprietary piece of shit. No TECHNICAL reason for them not to.


And regarding your old Touchpad pulling 2.2A, that's because it's plugged into a wall adapter. Which doubles up pins to use for power and allows for higher amperage charging. Data pins aren't used when plugged into a charging adapter, and that allows for additional pins to be used for sending another line of power. You're not getting 2.2A from USB 5 pin to USB 5 pin. Hence the communication aspect.

I bring up the iPad, because it cannot be charged by being plugged into a computer's USB port. Because it requires too much amperage. It can only charge when you plug the USB port into the iPad wall charger, which doubles up unused pins to use for increased amps. That's the only way it can currently charge. The next iPad will use the Lightning adapter as well. Apple wanted to consolidate the adapters and have Lightning be the future. As stupid as I think that is, they couldn't have used MicroUSB if they wanted to consolidate. And MicroUSB 3 vB would be no different than switching to Lightning.

And this entire two paragraphs of nonsense means what? YES I know it is pulling 2.2 from the wall without communication.. I stated as much by showing that the new standards allow for 1.5A AND 5A depending on if you are communicating or not.

And you end by making NO SENSE whatsoever. WHY exactly could they not use USB 3.0 micro-B for the new phone and the next iPad?

They could pull 1.5A to charge while plugged into a computer and 5A from the wall. The form factor is small/thin enough... and it has enough of your oh so valuable pins.

So in short... we agree that it is fine for Apple to change form factors after 10 years. No problem there. We agree that Apple users will bitch about it no matter what and they'll just have to deal. Where you seem to be getting STUCK is that you are making excuses for them NOT adopting an established standard(USB 3.0 micro-b) when there is NO TECHNICAL excuse out there.

FAIL.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 12:04 AM
You know damn good and well that the blog author was not talking about comparing Apple Lightning connector to the USB3 Micro V3 11 pin connector. You were confusing the two and talking about qualities of both through the entire thread. And it's clear the blog author wasn't talking about the 11pin connector. That's not what the general populace is enraged about and you know it.

I know exactly what he was saying and he FAILED because he was either ignorant (I gave him the benefit of the doubt) or a misleading liar by not mentioning USB 3.0 micro-b.

AND you are dead wrong. People are outraged at yet another proprietary connector. If Apple had brought out a micro-b connector.. you'd still get outrage from some.. but many would point out A)it's a standard, even if you may not be familiar with it yet and B)it's backwards compatible with existing cables/devices/etc (although of course you'd lose some functionality or speed... which is funny because that is EXACTLY what is happening with the new connector anyway)

Maybe I'm wrong and Apple users are so stupid that I'm misreading their outrage. If so, sorry, I gave them the benefit of the doubt as well.

Fish
09-18-2012, 12:11 AM
I would have had no problems seeing them switch to the 11 pin USB3 connector. That's not my argument. That would have been better than what they chose.

But you posted on that guy's blog the following:

But you still fail to address how my post proves your assertion that a usb connection wouldn’t be adequate due to either pin count or charging reqs. Both of those assertions are false. Apple could have used a USB3 connector without any loss of functionality(unless you are just THAT enamored with the idea that the plug is reversible). fact is, this was a move to stay proprietary simply for the sake of staying proprietary. I have yet to see ONE solid technical justification for it.

The guy was talking about the 5 pin MicroUSB connector in his article. It was clear that he was. He stated it directly in his article:

People keep asking why Apple didn’t opt for the micro-USB connector. The answer is simple: that connector isn’t smart enough. It has only 5 pins: +5V, Ground, 2 digital data pins, and a sense pin

Yet you replied questioning his pin count. Read both quotes. How much more obvious can it be? You jumped his ass when you were talking about the 11 pin adapter, and he was clearly talking about the 5 pin, which is what everyone is in an uproar over.

Whatever man. This is getting stupid.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 12:18 AM
The guy was talking about the 5 pin MicroUSB connector in his article. It was clear that he was. He stated it directly in his article:



Yet you replied questioning his pin count. Read both quotes. How much more obvious can it be? You jumped his ass when you were talking about the 11 pin adapter, and he was clearly talking about the 5 pin, which is what everyone is in an uproar over.

Whatever man. This is getting stupid.

The guy obviously didn't know his shit and his error of omission proved that. YES he was talking about an old 5 pin connector but by NOT mentioning that an 11-pin connector existed and was a standard he was either being misleading or ignorant. It's pretty clear from his multiple mistakes that he simply didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

To say.. "well you can't use a standard because it's not good enough" and then quote a full revision back (over 4 years past being the current standard) is misleading (AT BEST). He should have FIRST educated himself on the subject then SECOND educated his readers. He did neither and got his ass jumped. Now more people will know he is talking out of his ass and should be taken with a grain of salt.

AND fact is he was just completely wrong on charging specs, regardless of connector.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 12:20 AM
I would have had no problems seeing them switch to the 11 pin USB3 connector.

And here we agree. They picked a proprietary adapter for NO TECHNICAL reasons. It's a money grab. If they pull it off, it makes sense financially. BUT they risk pissing people off who know better... AND Europe is really not gonna like it. (They are huge on USB.. pretty sure it's law.. no joke)

Fish
09-18-2012, 12:30 AM
The guy obviously didn't know his shit and his error of omission proved that. YES he was talking about an old 5 pin connector but by NOT mentioning that an 11-pin connector existed and was a standard he was either being misleading or ignorant. It's pretty clear from his multiple mistakes that he simply didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

To say.. "well you can't use a standard because it's not good enough" and then quote a full revision back (over 4 years past being the current standard) is misleading (AT BEST). He should have FIRST educated himself on the subject then SECOND educated his readers. He did neither and got his ass jumped. Now more people will know he is talking out of his ass and should be taken with a grain of salt.

AND fact is he was just completely wrong on charging specs, regardless of connector.

If you would have made any effort to show the distinction between the 2 formats in your rant on his page, I might be more inclined to believe you. But you confused the two just like you did in this discussion. The guy clearly flubbed some points, and I already admitted that. But you introduced the 10pin connector when it wasn't discussed at all. The guy even admitted that he didn't mention a thing about USB3, and that wasn't what he was talking about. He also admitted his ignorance on the amperage:

Note that this refers to individual pins; I’ve been told that several devices manage to get around this by some trick or other, but I couldn’t find any standard for doing so.

That trick he's talking about is using multiple pins not used for data, to transmit power. Doubling up pins like I mentioned above.

You jumped him for something he admitted ignorance to.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 12:36 AM
If you would have made any effort to show the distinction between the 2 formats in your rant on his page, I might be more inclined to believe you. But you confused the two just like you did in this discussion. The guy clearly flubbed some points, and I already admitted that. But you introduced the 10pin connector when it wasn't discussed at all. The guy even admitted that he didn't mention a thing about USB3, and that wasn't what he was talking about. He also admitted his ignorance on the amperage:



That trick he's talking about is using multiple pins not used for data, to transmit power. Doubling up pins like I mentioned above.

You jumped him for something he admitted ignorance to.
ok #1 it's ELEVEN.. THIS ONE GOES TO ELEVEN! (you count the shield in the pin count generally)

#2 I'M not confusing anything. Yes, I shouldn't have assumed everyone would keep up... I could have made it clearer... but a lot of this is stuff I just assume people in tech should know. Yes he admitted he didn't mention USB3... my point is that he should have. He clearly just doesn't know his shit and it shows.

#3 I would give him a pass on charging but some of what he posted and never corrected is just flat out wrong and obviously just misread crap from wikipedia. He goes back and corrects that and he gets a pass.

Fish
09-18-2012, 12:44 AM
In the same way that the Apple connector is a 9 pin.... Tip ground.....

It's too bad Apple is arrogant and tries to influence tech that other people already developed, to "better" it for their own illogical manners . I'm not denying that.

But Apple Lightning is much smaller than 11pin USB3, and they knew they could get away with it.

Ehh.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 01:06 AM
But Apple Lightning is much smaller than 11pin USB3,



Don't forget REVERSIBLE!!!! (actually, that is the only part about it that I find cool. shhh don't repeat that)

Great Expectations
09-18-2012, 07:45 AM
Depends on the phone.

What do you have?

Thinking about getting a Note II when they are released in Oct.

I have a iPhone 4 now, it is jailbroken.