PDA

View Full Version : Football Quarterback Development: When Practice Reports Are Useless


Dave Lane
08-18-2012, 08:36 AM
“A lot of times you learn from your mistakes. You know, you gotta make the mistakes to learn from them,” he said. “And you never know how tight a window is until you throw it, and it was too tight. You try to force a ball into certain areas and then you learn from it, you say, ‘I can’t do that.’ You install new plays and you try to run them over and over and you try to identify all the problems where they come up and then really make good decisions.

“We’re out here running a ton of plays every day, 75, 80 plays a day,” he continued. “Believe me, they’re not all perfect, there’s a lot of learning every day in a lot of the situational stuff that we do. All of it is a good learning experience, whether Ryan or Brian are in there taking the snap, I’m paying attention to see what I would do if I was in there and vice versa. And that’s the only way to play football, you can’t sit here and only concentrate when you’re in. You gotta learn from every day on the field, every rep in practice, mentally and then physically when you get a chance to go out and do it, you gotta try to execute it as best you can.”

-Tom Brady talking about the value of taking risks and making mistakes in practice.

This quote from Field Yates’ piece posted yesterday on ESPN’s New England Patriots Report is a perfect example of why readers have to be careful about what beat reporters and analysts observe at practice.

When it comes to assessing the performance of an individual player, practice is indeed sometimes just practice. Journalists, bloggers, and other media don’t have readers, listeners, and viewers standing over their shoulders critiquing every move as they prepare drafts or rehearse scripts or notes of what they intend communicate. Most individuals are given the freedom to prepare in private to create a polished product refined through trial and error, honing of technique, and taking risks to understand the dynamics of the project at hand.

Trent Edwards went from a risk taker with promise to depth chart fodder afraid to fail.

Lasting success comes from repeatedly taking the risks to fail. Perhaps the biggest reason for Tom Brady’s success is his decision-making. I read Chris Brown’s essay in his excellent book Smart Football where he concludes that good and bad decision-making at the quarterback position is too difficult to gauge when evaluating the future prospects of a young quarterback. Brown’s conclusion is based on part with Brady saying he doesn’t know why he does what he does in such a short period of time. I agree with a lot of Brown’s conclusions in this essay.

However, I think Brady’s quote at the top of this piece indicates something that perhaps even Brady hadn’t thought about when he said the things that Brown analyzed in the past. Brady is willing to take risks to fail. Test every angle. Take note of each failure and look for what he can and can’t do with a play call, a defense, a formation, and a passing window.

The first-day quarterback prospects that we’ve seen fail miserably are the ones that have lost their capacity to embrace risk. Trent Edwards, John Beck, and David Carr were all confident pocket passers willing to throw the ball down field and into tight windows as college passers and even early in their pro careers. Somewhere along the way, they had this willingness to embrace risk beaten out of them by opposing defenses and/or coaches. They lost the will to continue failing until they experienced success.

Most practice reports that feature quarterback work are analysis of completions, interceptions, touchdowns, and quality of a throw. When we learn about development, it’s generally in vague terms:

He’s miles from where he was last year.
He’s seeing the field better.
His decisions are quicker.

If we get the last two bullet points, we’re lucky. Yet, I’m not indicting beat writers. There’s a lot happening at practice and not a lot of time to analyze it all. I’m reminding readers that the analysis of practice, preseason, and the regular season is filled with valuable clues as well as red herrings. Because there is such a large component to the game that takes place before the snap and between the quarterback’s ear holes, progress is harder to see. In that sense, quarterbacks are a lot like icebergs.

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2012/08/16/quarterback-development-when-practice-reports-are-useless/

Dave Lane
08-18-2012, 08:38 AM
I see Stanzi ablity / desire to take risks good based on the article and well not so much for Matt.

Coogs
08-18-2012, 08:51 AM
I see Stanzi ablity / desire to take risks good based on the article and well not so much for Matt.

I agree. That is why I think the ball thrown down the left sideline last Friday that was overthrown by 10 yards was a throw away... not a bad throw. Rather than try to fit it in a tight throw under pressure from the defensive line, I believe he has learned that the play just didn't feel right, so live to see another play. And 5 of his other 6 passes were good calculated risk passes that were all a whisker away from being potentially big plays... a couple of which were.

The one ball that had to be thrown away behind the line of scrimmage doesn't really fit into this equation, but was not that bad of play either. Don't take the sack. Don't force the Int.

Anxious to see him tonight. Might even get a series with the #1's the way it sounds. :toast:

mikey23545
08-18-2012, 09:08 AM
I agree. That is why I think the ball thrown down the left sideline last Friday that was overthrown by 10 yards was a throw away... not a bad throw. Rather than try to fit it in a tight throw under pressure from the defensive line, I believe he has learned that the play just didn't feel right, so live to see another play. And 5 of his other 6 passes were good calculated risk passes that were all a whisker away from being potentially big plays... a couple of which were.

The one ball that had to be thrown away behind the line of scrimmage doesn't really fit into this equation, but was not that bad of play either. Don't take the sack. Don't force the Int.

Anxious to see him tonight. Might even get a series with the #1's the way it sounds. :toast:


Really?

Where did you hear that?

rico
08-18-2012, 09:15 AM
Interdasting.

Coogs
08-18-2012, 09:18 AM
Really?

Where did you hear that?

I have heard it several times. Once is here...

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/17/3767234/five-things-to-look-for-in-chiefs.html

mikey23545
08-18-2012, 09:56 AM
I have heard it several times. Once is here...

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/17/3767234/five-things-to-look-for-in-chiefs.html

Thanks, Coogs.

I just wonder how good his timing with the first teamers will be since he usually never works with them (at least I assume very little).

tonyetony
08-18-2012, 10:12 AM
Why not get your second string QB some reps with the first stringers in preseason? After watching the guy running the offensive scout team (Palko) come in last year and have zero chemistry with guys who barely knew his name I'm all for it.

Not missing Haley at all. Last year at this time we were still in conditioning mode.:rolleyes:

durtyrute
08-18-2012, 10:49 AM
That is exactly why I like Stanzi. If you really watch him, you can see he has IT. He takes risks, he pushes the ball downfield, he scans the WHOLE field and throws a beautiful ball with ease. I'm not comparing him to anyone, but I really have a good feeling about him. I can not fucking wait till tonight. I hope he brings the rain, the fire, and the pain all in the same game.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-18-2012, 10:52 AM
Get the lotion ready fellas

mikey23545
08-18-2012, 11:30 AM
Get the lotion ready fellas

LMAO

Just Passin' By
08-18-2012, 11:51 AM
This portion of Brady's comments was left out of the article:

"He's open to, you know, you don't wanna come out here and throw a bunch of interceptions," he said. "But at the same time, you don't wanna, it's not a game, you wanna install things, and see how they work and try to give guys an opportunity to go up and catch the ball and make plays on the ball. You probably do some things this time of the year that you wouldn't normally do, but at the same time you're trying to make good decisions, read the coverage and get the ball to the right guy."


You can put the lotion away.

SNR
08-18-2012, 11:57 AM
This portion of Brady's comments was left out of the article:



You can put the lotion away.

"Get the ball to the right guy"

You mean like overthrowing Jamaal Charles on a panicked checkdown when Cassel's first option wasn't open?

durtyrute
08-18-2012, 11:58 AM
This portion of Brady's comments was left out of the article:



You can put the lotion away.

NEVER!!!!

Just Passin' By
08-18-2012, 12:07 PM
"Get the ball to the right guy"

You mean like overthrowing Jamaal Charles on a panicked checkdown when Cassel's first option wasn't open?

So your first reaction, when shown that the article is ignoring a big part of what Brady said, and that this is not something that should lead to a Stanzi spankfest, is to try spinning things around on Cassel.

That's ****ing pathetic.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:09 PM
So your first reaction, when shown that the article is ignoring a big part of what Brady said, and that this is not something that should lead to a Stanzi spankfest, is to try spinning things around on Cassel.

That's ****ing pathetic.

I never thought this article was supposed to be a Stanzi spankfest. Others did, but not me.

I DID turn it around on Matt Cassel because if we're going to take any of this Patriot Way garbage seriously, it bears repeating over and over again that Matt's play-it-safe style is going to get us fucked in the end.

Just Passin' By
08-18-2012, 12:10 PM
I never thought this article was supposed to be a Stanzi spankfest. Others did, but not me.

Then your post has nothing to do with the article or the replies. It's just you being an asshole. Not every thread has to turn into an assault on Cassel.

threebag02
08-18-2012, 12:14 PM
Oh Stanzi...Ooohhh Stanzi...OOOooohh Stanzi...OOOHHH STAAAAANZIII!!!!

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:15 PM
Your quote doesn't exactly refute everything said in the OP either, dumbass.

Brady is doing what Patriot assholes always do. Present both sides of the same coin as your "philosophy".

"I would say we want to build a team that can throw the ball well and throw it often. At the same time you don't want to abandon the run, because that's really important too..."

Shit like that.

Just Passin' By
08-18-2012, 12:16 PM
Your quote doesn't exactly refute everything said in the OP either, dumbass.

Brady is doing what Patriot assholes always do. Present both sides of the same coin as your "philosophy".

"I would say we want to build a team that can throw the ball well and throw it often. At the same time you don't want to abandon the run, because that's really important too..."

Shit like that.

Brady is talking about trying different plays and routes, and the like. He's not talking about saying "fuck it" and tossing the ball into triple coverage.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:18 PM
Mistakes happen all the time in practice. Boy, do they ever. And those are healthy. You want to push the limits of what your receivers and offense can do to see if they'll respond the same way in an actual game. Yet at the same time, it's important to make good throws in practice and execute plays, otherwise our receivers and backs can't practice their stuff

Both sides of the fucking mouth. Nothing to see here. Just more Patriot Way bullshit lingo.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Brady is talking about trying different plays and routes, and the like. He's not talking about saying "fuck it" and tossing the ball into triple coverage.
So what does that have to do with Stanzi (which is what YOU were responding to)

Stanzi doesn't do that shit. Some of his throws get away from him, but he never says "fuck it, I'm going to shove this throw in the 2-foot window between three defenders to Dexter McCluster"

Just Passin' By
08-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Mistakes happen all the time in practice. Boy, do they ever. And those are healthy. You want to push the limits of what your receivers and offense can do to see if they'll respond the same way in an actual game. Yet at the same time, it's important to make good throws in practice and execute plays, otherwise our receivers and backs can't practice their stuff

Both sides of the ****ing mouth. Nothing to see here. Just more Patriot Way bullshit lingo.

Yet you felt the need to take a dig at Cassel when it had nothing to do with the article or the comments. Just more SNR bullshit lingo? That's the kind of garbage that's making the football threads here all but unreadable.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:24 PM
Yet you felt the need to take a dig at Cassel when it had nothing to do with the article or the comments. Just more SNR bullshit lingo? That's the kind of garbage that's making the football threads here all but unreadable.

Yes. Because Cassel fucking sucks. I guarangoddamntee that if there's one thing holding us back from winning a playoff game this year, it's his sorry cautious ass throwing checkdowns against a vicious Ravens defense.

Fuck Matt Cassel.

Coogs
08-18-2012, 12:25 PM
Oh Stanzi...Ooohhh Stanzi...OOOooohh Stanzi...OOOHHH STANZI!!!!

There is a small group of us here at the Planet who are pulling for Stanzi. We see something. It may be something that is really not there, and he may never pan out.

But my guess too, is that this small group has the overall team in mind, and what he might could bring to the table that we do not have right now. I really don't get the overall vib that this group is pulling for him to succeed just to thump their/our collective chests and tell the rest of the Planet... "I told you so".

Not sure I get that same vibe from the Stanzi Haters group.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:25 PM
You probably do some things this time of the year that you wouldn't normally do, but at the same time you're trying to make good decisions, read the coverage and get the ball to the right guy."Which fucking one is it, Tom?

threebag02
08-18-2012, 12:30 PM
There is a small group of us here at the Planet who are pulling for Stanzi. We see something. It may be something that is really not there, and he may never pan out.

But my guess too, is that this small group has the overall team in mind, and what he might could bring to the table that we do not have right now. I really don't get the overall vib that this group is pulling for him to succeed just to thump their/our collective chests and tell the rest of the Planet... "I told you so".

Not sure I get that same vibe from the Stanzi Haters group.

I am all about Stanzi, he's not Matt Cassel. I can not stand Matt Cassel.

milkman
08-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Yet you felt the need to take a dig at Cassel when it had nothing to do with the article or the comments. Just more SNR bullshit lingo? That's the kind of garbage that's making the football threads here all but unreadable.

I am going to have to neg rep SNR, since he is only making the football threads here all but unreadable for you.

If he were better at what he's doing, he'd make it just unreadable for you, and your sorry ass would be gone.

Coogs
08-18-2012, 12:31 PM
I am all about Stanzi, he's not Matt Cassel. I can not stand Matt Cassel.

Sorry! I thought you were mocking us in the Stanzi camp.

SNR
08-18-2012, 12:44 PM
I am going to have to neg rep SNR, since he is only making the football threads here all but unreadable for you.

If he were better at what he's doing, he'd make it just unreadable for you, and your sorry ass would be gone.

Sorry. I'm just trying different things here in Chiefs Planet preseason mode. Seeing what will and what won't work. Testing the patience of Cassel's boyfriend in as many different ways as I can.

But at the same time, I should be making smarter decisions about what to write and what to post.

I should both sling shit at Cassel's boyfriend while honestly debating him. Yeah, that sounds right. Thanks, Patriot Way!

Dave Lane
08-18-2012, 06:08 PM
"Get the ball to the right guy"

You mean like overthrowing Jamaal Charles on a panicked checkdown when Cassel's first option wasn't open?

Or throw a screen pass into a defenders arms?