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Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 10:58 AM
According to Fox Sports. No story, just a link to a slide show with a paragraph about each.

Yes Castle is one of them.

Discuss.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/quarterbacks-under-most-pressure-to-meet-expectations-082112#tab=photo-title=Head+of+the+class&photo=31277114

jd1020
08-23-2012, 11:01 AM
I would have added Peyton to that list.

He just got released by the only team he's ever played for because of recurring neck problems. Missed all of last season and hasn't been impressive compared to his standards so far in Denver. And they drafted Osweiler in the 2nd.

Dicky McElephant
08-23-2012, 11:02 AM
Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens

Flacco is a top-five quarterback, his agent, Joe Linta, said as he began negotiations with the Ravens on a new contract this offseason. Flacco certainly has all the physical attributes and a deep (and, more important, familiar) supporting cast around him. This is primed to be a breakout year. You’re going to see more no-huddle offense this year as the Ravens hand more responsibility of the play-calling to Flacco. Flacco showcased his skills in the AFC title game against New England as he passed for 306 yards and two TDs. The next step is for Flacco to make those types of performances commonplace.

Mark Sanchez, New York Jets

Sanchez seemingly regressed last season, the first of his three seasons as a pro that he didn't lead the Jets to the AFC title game. An offseason that could have been spent solely dissecting how Sanchez can get his development back on track was overshadowed by the Jets' addition of Tim Tebow. The media circus that followed hasn’t changed the fact Sanchez plays behind an inferior line with few weapons at receiver or in the backfield. And having to now look over his shoulder at Tebow certainly won't help, either.

Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys

Romo is an easy target for the Cowboys’ .500 record in 2011 — a season that ended without a playoff berth. (Truth be told, the defense should get at least some of the blame.) The fact remains, however, that Romo has maneuvered the Cowboys out of the first round just once since he took over as QB in 2006. "I'm still advancing," Romo told FOXSportsSouthwest.com this summer. "I still think the ceiling is still there, and I'm learning new things all the time."

Matt Schaub, Houston Texans

The tools are definitely there for Schaub — at least when he stays on the field. He missed the final six regular-season games in 2011 after a foot injury. His season also were cut short in 2007 (concussion, shoulder injury) and 2008 (knee injury). "There was a little bit of rust," Schaub told FOXSportsHouston.com about his return to practice this offseason. "That's worn off now, so we're just back in a groove." If he stays there, the Texans could be set for the franchise’s most promising season, and maybe Schaub can shake that "injury-prone" label in the process — and in a contract year, no less.

Carson Palmer, Oakland Raiders

The architects of Palmer's acquisition from Cincinnati are no longer around, but the current regime has high hopes for the two-time Pro Bowl selection. Palmer, whose career peaked six years ago with the Bengals, is looking to resurrect a career under a new offense that calls for more rollouts and zone blocking. "He has great poise, great leadership," first-year Raiders coach Dennis Allen told FOXSports.com. "He already has a command for the offense. I think he's done a nice job working with some of the young receivers in trying to get them on the same page."

Sam Bradford, St. Louis Rams

The expectations of being the No. 1 overall pick, as Bradford was, come with the caveat that the team that selected you got that pick for a reason. Bradford, taken first overall in 2010, was sacked 36 times last season and would have vied for the “most sacked” designation had he not suffered a high ankle sprain that forced him out of six games. The Rams, with a new head coach (Jeff Fisher) and new offensive coordinator (Brian Schottenheimer), are an improved team, and Bradford will be expected to help raise the franchise to at least respectability.

Josh Freeman, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Freeman impressed in 2010, his first full season as a starter, when he tossed 25 TDs with just six interceptions. But the Kansas State product went full reverse last season with 16 touchdowns and 22 picks as the Bucs lost their final 10 games. He slimmed down about 20 pounds in the offseason, so a leaner Freeman will attempt to maneuver the Bucs into the playoffs for the first time since 2007.

Kevin Kolb, Arizona Cardinals

Kolb might not even be chosen the starter, a jarring realization when you figure in how much the franchise has committed to him. (Kolb agreed to a since-restructured five-year contract worth $63.5 million after he was acquired in the summer of 2011 from the Philadelphia Eagles for CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second-round pick in this year’s draft.) Kolb muddled through his first season as a starter, and his play so far this preseason has left open the very real possibility that John Skelton could take the snaps in Week 1.

Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs

This will be Cassel’s fourth season since he left New England after a stellar season filling in for injured Tom Brady. He’s shown in the years since he can be more than just a guy who can adequately carry a clipboard, at least before a broken hand cost him the final seven games of last season. With the Chiefs predicted by some to win the AFC West, Cassel will have to at least hang in there against the division's two favorites and their starting QBs in Denver (Peyton Manning) and San Diego (Philip Rivers).

Michael Vick, Philadelphia Eagles

Durability, not talent, has been the knock on Vick going back to his Atlanta Falcons days. He has played all 16 games in a regular season only once (2006 with Atlanta). He missed three starts last season and has left both preseason games in 2012 with injuries. (X-rays on his ribs were negative after he left Monday night’s game against New England.) At 32, Vick certainly isn’t getting any younger. That not only means it takes longer to heal, but his window (along with that of the Eagles and coach Andy Reid) is closing.


There you go.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 11:03 AM
I would have added Peyton to that list.

Good point.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 11:03 AM
There you go.

Thanks for highlighting my fail heh.

Scorp
08-23-2012, 11:14 AM
Mark Castle is a Pro Bowl QB! Matt Casshole not so much.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 11:15 AM
We have to draft a 1st round QB next year. All the pieces are in place.

Scorp
08-23-2012, 11:17 AM
We have to draft a 1st round QB next year. All the pieces are in place.

Pffffftt, blasphemy! Tightwads at 1 Arrowhead Drive will never move up from the middle of the pack to get a legitimate number 1.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Call it what ever you want. But now is the time. We know what Cassel is. Quinn isnt anything to write home about and Stanzi is complete garbage.

Marcellus
08-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Pffffftt, blasphemy! Tightwads at 1 Arrowhead Drive will never move up from the middle of the pack to get a legitimate number 1.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

A 1st round QB would be cheaper than the one we have now. $ is not the issue.

Some of you regurgitate the same dumb arguments without even thinking about it. The rookie wage scale took $ out of the equation last year.

suds79
08-23-2012, 11:33 AM
We have to draft a 1st round QB next year. All the pieces are in place.

Yep.

This mindset has allowed me to let go some of my extreme dislike for Matt Cassel.

If Matt fails or is just average? (highly likely) Then you have the QBOTF there to take the reins next year.

If he somehow plays really good? Then you're not forcing yourself to play a rookie QB in a year or two down the road. Instead you'll have a seasoned guy ready to take over.

Deberg_1990
08-23-2012, 11:38 AM
We have to draft a 1st round QB next year. All the pieces are in place.

We do? The cruel irony here is that alot of fans are expecting us to have a great year. If that happens we wont have a shot at a top tier guy and most likely Cassel had a good year.


so do you want the team to have a bad year or a good one Chiefs fans?

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 11:52 AM
We do? The cruel irony here is that alot of fans are expecting us to have a great year. If that happens we wont have a shot at a top tier guy and most likely Cassel had a good year.


so do you want the team to have a bad year or a good one Chiefs fans?

We want the team to have a great year while Cassel is mauled in an unfortunate schmelting accident.

Frosty
08-23-2012, 11:54 AM
We have to draft a 1st round QB next year. All the pieces are in place.

I just know they are going to pick a corner in the 1st next year to replace Carr.

SNR
08-23-2012, 11:54 AM
Geno Smith plz

Big Smoke
08-23-2012, 11:59 AM
Um. If some of these guys are "under the gun", please feel free to ship them off to KC. Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, or Matt Schaub please.

Scorp
08-23-2012, 12:00 PM
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

A 1st round QB would be cheaper than the one we have now. $ is not the issue.

Some of you regurgitate the same dumb arguments without even thinking about it. The rookie wage scale took $ out of the equation last year.

I am not talking $$$$. I am talking about giving up two firsts and whatever else to move up in the draft to pick at number 1 or 2. I just don't believe the Clark's will ever do that.

mr. tegu
08-23-2012, 12:12 PM
Um. If some of these guys are "under the gun", please feel free to ship them off to KC. Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, or Matt Schaub please.

The only one I would want is Bradford. Schaub is always hurt and Flacco is no better than Cassel.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 12:16 PM
We do? The cruel irony here is that alot of fans are expecting us to have a great year. If that happens we wont have a shot at a top tier guy and most likely Cassel had a good year.


so do you want the team to have a bad year or a good one Chiefs fans?

I want the franchise to get this fanbase a franchise qb under center.

You dont have to lose to get a franchise QB, Where does it state that in the NFL Franchise handbook?

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Um. If some of these guys are "under the gun", please feel free to ship them off to KC. Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, or Matt Schaub please.

Flacco can stay in Bmore.

bevischief
08-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Just anyone who can play better than Cassel and can play for a long time.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 12:33 PM
The only one I would want is Bradford. Schaub is always hurt and Flacco is no better than Cassel.

Bradford has a lot to prove this year. Unless he turns it on, he's in danger of acquiring the mediocre tag too...

Agree with you on the other two, though.

McWickedson
08-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Bradford is no where near decent. Rams will be looking for another quarterback in two years.

Omaha
08-23-2012, 12:39 PM
Misleading thread title!!!!!!! I feel ripped off. There were only 10.

milkman
08-23-2012, 12:42 PM
Bradford has a lot to prove this year. Unless he turns it on, he's in danger of acquiring the mediocre tag too...

Agree with you on the other two, though.

Flacco show some signs of making a step up last year.

This year is going to be the year for him to really step it up and show everyone that he's a guy that has the necessary mental tools to lead his taem to the SB, rather than be a guy that rides the talent around him to a couple of playoff wins.

I don't think there's enough talent surrounding Bradford for him to prove himself this year.

His rookie season, though, I think we saw a guy that has the ability to elevate the talent around him.

That Rams team is going to lose a lot of games, but I think, if he stays healhty, it will be in spite of Bradford's efforts.

royr17
08-23-2012, 01:04 PM
I disagree, the receivers that Bradford has had to throw to since entering the NFL are horrible, put him on a team like Kansas City with the talent that we have on offense and he will blossom like a flower.

Point blank with any QB if you dont have a good surrounding cast around them you cant expect things to be pretty.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 01:08 PM
Misleading thread title!!!!!!! I feel ripped off. There were only 10.

Well hell you're right. It said 11 images I guess but they have Sanchez on there twice. Damn east coast bias.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 01:12 PM
Flacco show some signs of making a step up last year.

This year is going to be the year for him to really step it up and show everyone that he's a guy that has the necessary mental tools to lead his taem to the SB, rather than be a guy that rides the talent around him to a couple of playoff wins.

I agree. You can probably say the same thing about Matt Ryan.

Solid but not spectacular. And considering both teams have taken considerable steps to surround them with talent, they both need to make "the leap" this year or risk being labelled as game managers.

I don't think there's enough talent surrounding Bradford for him to prove himself this year.

His rookie season, though, I think we saw a guy that has the ability to elevate the talent around him.

That Rams team is going to lose a lot of games, but I think, if he stays healhty, it will be in spite of Bradford's efforts.

I somewhat agree with this. His WRs and offensive line have been off-and-on adequate but mostly just atrocious. His biggest problem is that he's having trouble staying healthy. In all, St Louis is a REALLY hard place to evaluate a QB right now given the state of the team and one has to wonder if Jeff Fisher's style might have a detrimental impact on Bradford as well.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 01:12 PM
Well hell you're right. It said 11 images I guess but they have Sanchez on there twice. Damn east coast bias.

They put Sanchez on there twice because he's THAT bad.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 01:14 PM
A 1st round QB would be cheaper than the one we have now. $ is not the issue.



Exactly.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 01:16 PM
They put Sanchez on there twice because he's THAT bad.

That's what I was thinking. He's under twice as big a gun now because the holy spirit is looking over his shoulder.

reschief
08-23-2012, 01:21 PM
Did I miss it? Where's Phillip Rivers on this list? I mean, after the year he had last year and somehow Norv still being the head coach for an obviously declining team? If Rivers doesn't perform this year . . .

jd1020
08-23-2012, 01:23 PM
Did I miss it? Where's Phillip Rivers on this list? I mean, after the year he had last year and somehow Norv still being the head coach for an obviously declining team? If Rivers doesn't perform this year . . .

ROFL

L.A. Chieffan
08-23-2012, 01:39 PM
If Cassell leads this team to the playoffs this season you have to admit that the experiment has been a success and he deserves a multi-year extension.

Even if for some reason he doesnt and the year is not a COMPLETE disaster he should be be back for next season regardless because how cheap he is.

Deberg_1990
08-23-2012, 01:42 PM
You dont have to lose to get a franchise QB, Where does it state that in the NFL Franchise handbook?

YOur right, you dont...but thats the most popular way. The other way is bring in a FA. What gets overlooked alot around here is Pioli wanted Manning. Unfortunately, Manning wanted nothing to do with KC. My guess is Pioli isnt as sold on Cassel as alot of people think.

L.A. Chieffan
08-23-2012, 01:42 PM
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

A 1st round QB would be cheaper than the one we have now. $ is not the issue.

Some of you regurgitate the same dumb arguments without even thinking about it. The rookie wage scale took $ out of the equation last year.

Cassells contract next season: 7.5 Million
1st pick quarterback contract: approx 15 million

jd1020
08-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Cassells contract next season: 7.5 Million
1st pick quarterback contract: approx 15 million

...

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 01:49 PM
Cassells contract next season: 7.5 Million


that's too much money for a QB who can only fling it 3-7 yards consistently..

but if these passes start translating into wins, now that could be a different story..

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 01:49 PM
IF Bradford is the Franchise Qb that people say he is, he doesnt need talent around him. He will elevate the players around him to his level.

Franchise QB's dont need the talent excuse. Its hyprocritcal to say otherwise.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 01:53 PM
IF Bradford is the Franchise Qb that people say he is, he doesnt need talent around him. He will elevate the players around him to his level.

Franchise QB's dont need the talent excuse. Its hyprocritcal to say otherwise.

Even franchise QBs need ADEQUATE talent. Bradford's offensive line has been HORRIBLE.

So horrible that they consider Barry Richardson an UPGRADE.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 01:55 PM
So horrible that they consider Barry Richardson an UPGRADE.

yep, that's bad.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Even franchise QBs need ADEQUATE talent. Bradford's offensive line has been HORRIBLE.

So horrible that they consider Barry Richardson an UPGRADE.

Fair enough. But you have been her long enough to understand what I am saying.

Chiefnj2
08-23-2012, 01:57 PM
What gets overlooked alot around here is Pioli wanted Manning.

What you are saying is that Pioli has a thing for QBs that can't throw over 15 yards?

milkman
08-23-2012, 01:57 PM
IF Bradford is the Franchise Qb that people say he is, he doesnt need talent around him. He will elevate the players around him to his level.

Franchise QB's dont need the talent excuse. Its hyprocritcal to say otherwise.

Did someone drill a hole in your head and pour cement, or is that just a birth defect?

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Fair enough. But you have been her long enough to understand what I am saying.

i agree with you.
Montana elevated the players around him in 93 when he was at the end of his Career.
he took JJ Birden, Willie Davis and Keith Cash as his primary receivers to the AFC CG.
not elite players there.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 02:00 PM
i agree with you.
Montana elevated the players around him in 93 when he was at the end of his Career.
he took JJ Birden, Willie Davis and Keith Cash as his primary receivers to the AFC CG.
not elite players there.

His line was decent, though.

CoMoChief
08-23-2012, 02:01 PM
Did I miss it? Where's Phillip Rivers on this list? I mean, after the year he had last year and somehow Norv still being the head coach for an obviously declining team? If Rivers doesn't perform this year . . .

Well, he did throw a lot of INT's last season.

But he also threw for 4600yds and 27TD's with a 63 comp%, I wouldn't ever consider Rivers to be on the hot seat because of what he's been able to do over the past 3-4 yrs or so.

Norv on the other hand.....I'm just really surprised he's still a HC in the league to be honest. His teams are the poster child for shitty starts and digging themselves into a hole.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 02:04 PM
His line was decent, though.

It just depends on the discussion to fit ones agenda during the conversation.

You hear here all the time that a franchise qb makes the line and wr's better. Then you will turn around and hear that a franchise qb needs better talent around him, etc...

It also depends on who you are talking about... QB A = fans like him vs QB B fans hate him will determine what side of the fence they are on.

WhiteWhale
08-23-2012, 02:04 PM
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

A 1st round QB would be cheaper than the one we have now. $ is not the issue.

Some of you regurgitate the same dumb arguments without even thinking about it. The rookie wage scale took $ out of the equation last year.

Yup, and because of that more teams are going to be willing to take chances on QB's.

That means that QB's are going to start being picked higher and more often and a team will likely have to give up more to move up and get one.

Tannehill is a great example. I doubt he goes top 10 under the old CBA. Now guys like that are going to be going higher.

I'm all for going and getting a QB. Just pointing out a consequence of the new CBA that you didn't mention. I"m sure you're aware though.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 02:04 PM
Did someone drill a hole in your head and pour cement, or is that just a birth defect?

No, just have read too many of your posts.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 02:05 PM
His line was decent, though.

yep, John Alt, Will Shields, Tim Grunhard, and Dave Szott.
that's a pretty impressive Line.

Chiefnj2
08-23-2012, 02:07 PM
i agree with you.
Montana elevated the players around him in 93 when he was at the end of his Career.
he took JJ Birden, Willie Davis and Keith Cash as his primary receivers to the AFC CG.
not elite players there.

What people fail to remember is that Krieg started 5 or 6 games that year. Montana elevated players, but it wasn't all him.

milkman
08-23-2012, 02:09 PM
It just depends on the discussion to fit ones agenda during the conversation.

You hear here all the time that a franchise qb makes the line and wr's better. Then you will turn around and hear that a franchise qb needs better talent around him, etc...

It also depends on who you are talking about... QB A = fans like him vs QB B fans hate him will determine what side of the fence they are on.

Big strong guys, like Ben Roethlisberger, can overcome the lack of a decent line.

Guys with mobility that can make plays with the arm outside the pocket, like Aaron Rodgers, can also overcome the lack of a decent line.

Tom Brady is one of the best I've ever seen at pocket mobility, but he still needs a line that can provide him pocket that he work in.

But every QB needs talent elswhere on the roster to lead his team to the SB.

I have said it again and again, give me a top 10 defense and a franchise QB, and I will take my chances.

But that's a simplistic way of saying that you need a QB and talent surrounding that QB to win.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 02:11 PM
What people fail to remember is that Krieg started 5 or 6 games that year. Montana elevated players, but it wasn't all him.

but Krieg failed in Buffalo when it counted most after Montana went out with a concussion.

milkman
08-23-2012, 02:12 PM
No, just have read too many of your posts.

I see.

Trying to read my posts to get an understanding of the complexities of football caused your brain to fossilize.

I'll try to make things simpler for you in the future.

milkman
08-23-2012, 02:15 PM
What people fail to remember is that Krieg started 5 or 6 games that year. Montana elevated players, but it wasn't all him.

Kreig started 5 games and finished with a 3-2 record.

WhiteWhale
08-23-2012, 02:15 PM
Big strong guys, like Ben Roethlisberger, can overcome the lack of a decent line.

Guys with mobility that can make plays with the arm outside the pocket, like Aaron Rodgers, can also overcome the lack of a decent line.

Tom Brady is one of the best I've ever seen at pocket mobility, but he still needs a line that can provide him pocket that he work in.

But every QB needs talent elswhere on the roster to lead his team to the SB.

I have said it again and again, give me a top 10 defense and a franchise QB, and I will take my chances.

But that's a simplistic way of saying that you need a QB and talent surrounding that QB to win.

Exactly.

I don't see what's so hard about this.

If you surround a QB with more talent, his performance improves. Always.

It's not like a QB being great will suddenly turn a cast of undrafted scrubs into hall of famers. Chances are they will just make him look bad. Top that with a bad defense where the QB is under pressure to constantly make plays and he's going to press and force passes.

If you have a quality QB with a mediocre offensive cast and a great defense, that QB will find a way because he's not under pressure to score 30 points a game. He'll avoid mistakes and score enough to win more often than not.

If you surround your franchise QB with hot garbage, you're not going to a SB. I don't care how good he is.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 02:15 PM
I see.

Trying to read my posts to get an understanding of the complexities of football caused your brain to fossilize.

I'll try to make things simpler for you in the future.

Thanks Bro!

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 02:16 PM
give me a top 10 defense and a franchise QB, and I will take my chances.



:clap:

vailpass
08-23-2012, 02:16 PM
Um. If some of these guys are "under the gun", please feel free to ship them off to KC. Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, or Matt Schaub please.

Right? I'd take Romo, Schaub, Bradford in a minute.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 02:16 PM
It just depends on the discussion to fit ones agenda during the conversation.

You hear here all the time that a franchise qb makes the line and wr's better. Then you will turn around and hear that a franchise qb needs better talent around him, etc...

It also depends on who you are talking about... QB A = fans like him vs QB B fans hate him will determine what side of the fence they are on.

And of course, neither side makes their argument in such simplistic terms...

Methinks you're just trying to be difficult. :p

Chiefnj2
08-23-2012, 02:17 PM
but Krieg failed in Buffalo when it counted most after Montana went out with a concussion.

Not really.

First, those Buffalo teams were loaded with talent. A much better team than KC. Second, Buffalo had 229 yards rushing compared to KC who had about 50. IIRC DT was pulled because Buffalo was running right at him and were picking up huge chunks.

Finally, Montana's final stats were 9 of 23 with 0 TD and 1 INT. Krieg was 16 of 29 with 0 TD and 1 INT. It wasn't like Montana was having a good day when he went down.

WhiteWhale
08-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Not really.

First, those Buffalo teams were loaded with talent. A much better team than KC. Second, Buffalo had 229 yards rushing compared to KC who had about 50. IIRC DT was pulled because Buffalo was running right at him and were picking up huge chunks.

Finally, Montana's final stats were 9 of 23 with 0 TD and 1 INT. Krieg was 16 of 29 with 0 TD and 1 INT. It wasn't like Montana was having a good day when he went down.

True, but I remember a lot of dropped passes in that game.

I clearly remember Kimble Anders dropping an easy TD pass from Montana...

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 02:19 PM
And of course, neither side makes their argument in such simplistic terms...

Methinks you're just trying to be difficult. :p

Not at all, Just saying both sides of the argument are used when talking about a franchise QB.

Its really nothing more than someones personal opinion when it comes to the QB position.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 02:19 PM
Not really.

First, those Buffalo teams were loaded with talent. A much better team than KC. Second, Buffalo had 229 yards rushing compared to KC who had about 50. IIRC DT was pulled because Buffalo was running right at him and were picking up huge chunks.

Finally, Montana's final stats were 9 of 23 with 0 TD and 1 INT. Krieg was 16 of 29 with 0 TD and 1 INT. It wasn't like Montana was having a good day when he went down.

couldnt remember the stats thanks for posting.
that's the best the Chiefs have done in my lifetime. as a KC Chief fan (making it to the Championship Game.)

vailpass
08-23-2012, 02:19 PM
If Cassell leads this team to the playoffs this season you have to admit that the experiment has been a success and he deserves a multi-year extension.

Even if for some reason he doesnt and the year is not a COMPLETE disaster he should be be back for next season regardless because how cheap he is.

I enjoy watching you work.

Frosty
08-23-2012, 02:22 PM
Not really.

First, those Buffalo teams were loaded with talent. A much better team than KC. Second, Buffalo had 229 yards rushing compared to KC who had about 50. IIRC DT was pulled because Buffalo was running right at him and were picking up huge chunks.

Finally, Montana's final stats were 9 of 23 with 0 TD and 1 INT. Krieg was 16 of 29 with 0 TD and 1 INT. It wasn't like Montana was having a good day when he went down.

I kind of remember Kreig coming into one of the playoff games while the Chiefs were down quite a bit and leading the team on a TD drive and then Montana came back in and tied it up. The Pittsburgh game?

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 02:24 PM
Not at all, Just saying both sides of the argument are used when talking about a franchise QB.

Its really nothing more than someones personal opinion when it comes to the QB position.

Not really opinion at all.

Great QBs elevate the play of those around them. But they can't turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Pretty simple really.

WhiteWhale
08-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Not at all, Just saying both sides of the argument are used when talking about a franchise QB.

Its really nothing more than someones personal opinion when it comes to the QB position.

You're saying that people use whichever argument is convenient.

I think you're right.

Although I think both arguments can be used legitimately if one is willing to actually look at the players he's supported by.

This is my opinion, and I don't care who agrees. If you have a stacked offense, then there are probably 40 QB's you can win with. The major problem is that you can't stack teams like that anymore without sacrificing somewhere else. That philosophy won Joe Gibbs quite a few rings prior to the modern FA era.

Obviously it's better to have 1 guy (a QB) making the other 10 look better than they are rather than 10 guys making a QB look good. One has a much longer shelf life.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 02:27 PM
You're saying that people use whichever argument is convenient.

I think you're right.

Although I think both arguments can be used legitimately if one is willing to actually look at the players he's supported by.

This is my opinion, and I don't care who agrees. If you have a stacked offense, then there are probably 40 QB's you can win with. The major problem is that you can't stack teams like that anymore without sacrificing somewhere else. That philosophy won Joe Gibbs quite a few rings prior to the modern FA era.

Obviously it's better to have 1 guy (a QB) making the other 10 look better than they are rather than 10 guys making a QB look good. One has a much longer shelf life.

Yup.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 02:30 PM
I kind of remember Kreig coming into one of the playoff games while the Chiefs were down quite a bit and leading the team on a TD drive and then Montana came back in and tied it up. The Pittsburgh game?

yeah, Krieg was streaky.
when he was Bad he was Bad but When he was on he was hard to beat.

Bump
08-23-2012, 02:42 PM
I would have added Peyton to that list.

He just got released by the only team he's ever played for because of recurring neck problems. Missed all of last season and hasn't been impressive compared to his standards so far in Denver. And they drafted Osweiler in the 2nd.

they released him because he's old and they sucked so much without him they couldn't pass on Luck.

vailpass
08-23-2012, 02:44 PM
they released him because he's old and they sucked so much without him they couldn't pass on Luck.

Yep. Lucky sons of bitches.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-23-2012, 02:51 PM
If Cassell leads this team to the playoffs this season you have to admit that the experiment has been a success and he deserves a multi-year extension.

Even if for some reason he doesnt and the year is not a COMPLETE disaster he should be be back for next season regardless because how cheap he is.

Ahem,

Fuck AND No.

whoman69
08-23-2012, 03:12 PM
If Cassell leads this team to the playoffs this season you have to admit that the experiment has been a success and he deserves a multi-year extension.

Even if for some reason he doesnt and the year is not a COMPLETE disaster he should be be back for next season regardless because how cheap he is.

If Cassel doesn't at least lead this team to a playoff win, he shouldn't even come back next year, let alone get an extention.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 03:17 PM
If Cassel doesn't at least lead this team to a playoff win, he shouldn't even come back next year, let alone get an extention.

i Totally Agree.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 03:24 PM
If Cassel doesn't at least lead this team to a playoff win, he shouldn't even come back next year, let alone get an extention.

Agree.

Actually I want a complete over haul of the qb department. No Cassel, Quinn or Stanzi...

Otter
08-23-2012, 03:28 PM
Agree.

Actually I want a complete over haul of the qb department. No Cassel, Quinn or Stanzi...

Quinn seems like a good replacement for Todd Colllins but everything else I agree. Don't forget the coaches that been developing these turds for 40 years while we're at it.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 03:37 PM
Agree.

Actually I want a complete over haul of the qb department. No Cassel, Quinn or Stanzi...

i wouldn't be s fast on Quinn.
that TD to Horne in last weeks game vs the Rams was a thing of beauty, the kind of play a QB needs to make to loosen a defense.
i'd like to see him play with the first string before he gets cut loose.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 03:39 PM
i wouldn't be s fast on Quinn.
that TD to Horne in last weeks game vs the Rams was a thing of beauty, the kind of play a QB needs to make to loosen a defense.
i'd like to see him play with the first string before he gets cut loose.

No. There is nothing worth seeing...


I dont want to see him play in KC, ever. Same with Stanzi. Dude can take his drain clogging hair and head to the CFL or Arena League.

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 03:41 PM
No. There is nothing worth seeing...


I dont want to see him play in KC, ever. Same with Stanzi. Dude can take his drain clogging hair and head to the CFL or Arena League.

whatever
i know i 've yet to see Cassel make that kind of throw to a WR with authority in two preseason games with first string players.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 03:46 PM
whatever
i know i 've yet to see Cassel make that kind of throw to a WR with authority in two preseason games with first string players.

So? He sucks, we all know that.... Quinn made one throw, BFD. Quinn isnt a long term or short term answer either.

I would rather draft a QB and clean house this offseason regardless of what happens.

Time to shit or get off the pot.

SNR
08-23-2012, 03:46 PM
If Cassel doesn't at least lead this team to a playoff win, he shouldn't even come back next year, let alone get an extention.

Hey man give him a break he has to put up with shitty wide reci-... no...

Well his offensive line... well... okay...

Okay, but seriously, it's not like he ever had the support of fantastic running ba-...

Well, fine. But imagine the pressure of trying to win games when you've got a super shitty defense like... we.. do...

Umm.... BOWE DROPS STUFF!

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Hey man give him a break he has to put up with shitty wide reci-... no...

Well his offensive line... well... okay...

Okay, but seriously, it's not like he ever had the support of fantastic running ba-...

Well, fine. But imagine the pressure of trying to win games when you've got a super shitty defense like... we.. do...

Umm.... BOWE DROPS STUFF!

here we go again.

Chiefnj2
08-23-2012, 04:12 PM
Hey man give him a break he has to put up with shitty wide reci-... no...

Well his offensive line... well... okay...

Okay, but seriously, it's not like he ever had the support of fantastic running ba-...

Well, fine. But imagine the pressure of trying to win games when you've got a super shitty defense like... we.. do...

Umm.... BOWE DROPS STUFF!

In KC when has Cassel had all those pieces in place?

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 04:13 PM
In KC when has Cassel had all those pieces in place?

He drops stuff dammit!!!!:cuss:

ERMAGERD!!!!

BoneKrusher
08-23-2012, 04:14 PM
In KC when has Cassel had all those pieces in place?

my biggest problem with Cassel is the checkdowns, he just cant seem to get the ball to a WR like i saw Quinn make.

SNR
08-23-2012, 04:31 PM
In KC when has Cassel had all those pieces in place?
2010 and 2011.

Last year was more than adequate. He had a LT protecting his blindside and lots of different options to throw to. His RBs were broke dick, but a QB shouldn't expect a perfect team around him. Because there hardly is one.

Of course the asterisk next to last year was Todd Haley fucking up Cassel. That's pretty impressive actually considering how fucked up Cassel was to begin with.

SNR
08-23-2012, 04:33 PM
Bowe drops passes and flexes in front of the camera. He's practically Hitler.

MahiMike
08-23-2012, 04:41 PM
I would have added Peyton to that list.

He just got released by the only team he's ever played for because of recurring neck problems. Missed all of last season and hasn't been impressive compared to his standards so far in Denver. And they drafted Osweiler in the 2nd.

nah, he's not under the gun. He's just....done.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 04:43 PM
nah, he's not under the gun. He's just....done.

I wouldn't say he is done. I just don't think his leash is as slack as Favre's was when he was exiting the game.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 04:45 PM
No. There is nothing worth seeing...


I dont want to see him play in KC, ever. Same with Stanzi. Dude can take his drain clogging hair and head to the CFL or Arena League.

Jfc. Stanzi has only one offseason and one season under his belt. I don't know if he's god or if he's garbage. I do know that it's unreasonable to expect every qb to be guns blazing from the get go.

as I've said before, I really hope cassel doesn't start the entire season. I know with pretty good certainty he's not the answer. There's still at least a small percent of hope for stanzi. We should draft a qb next year no matter what. But every minute we waste on cassel is a minute we could have spent at least trying different options.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 04:46 PM
as I've said before, I really hope cassel doesn't start the entire season.

Why? So we can watch Quinn and Stanzi? Dumb.

SNR
08-23-2012, 04:52 PM
Why? So we can watch Quinn and Stanzi? Dumb.

Checkdowns don't win playoff games. If Cassel decides he wants to grow out of his diapers and play QB with the big boys, that's fine, but he better show me he has the balls to do it.

Until then, yes. Quinn and Stanzi BOTH have more courage than Matt does.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 04:53 PM
Checkdowns don't win playoff games. If Cassel decides he wants to grow out of his diapers and play QB with the big boys, that's fine, but he better show me he has the balls to do it.

Until then, yes. Quinn and Stanzi BOTH have more courage than Matt does.

Quinn and Stanzi don't either. Cassel is the best QB on the roster and it's not even debatable.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 04:55 PM
Why? So we can watch Quinn and Stanzi? Dumb.

If I'm playing the lottery and you gave me two options:
Option 1: 75% chance of payout on $10. 0% chance of payout of a million dollars.
Option 2: 20% chance of payout on $10. 10% chance of payout of a million dollars.

I'm taking option B every single time. I could give a shit if Cassel is going to win us 8 games, but we lose those games more respectfully. We know with good certainty what his ceiling is and it's not the Super Bowl. We don't know what Stanzi's ceiling is. And we'll never know until we give him meaningful snaps.

This isn't to promote Stanzi. This is to say we shouldn't waste a single minute with a QB who does nothing for your future.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 04:56 PM
Quinn and Stanzi don't either. Cassel is the best QB on the roster and it's not even debatable.

This.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 04:57 PM
If I'm playing the lottery and you gave me two options:
Option 1: 75% chance of payout on $10. 0% chance of payout of a million dollars.
Option 2: 20% chance of payout on $10. 10% chance of payout of a million dollars.

I'm taking option B every single time. I could give a shit if Cassel is going to win us 8 games, but we lose those games more respectfully. We know with good certainty what his ceiling is and it's not the Super Bowl. We don't know what Stanzi's ceiling is. And we'll never know until we give him meaningful snaps.

This isn't to promote Stanzi. This is to say we shouldn't waste a single minute with a QB who does nothing for your future.

Cassel is option B. Quinn and Stanzi aren't giving this team a better chance at a million dollars because Cassel is better. Sorry.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 04:57 PM
Quinn and Stanzi don't either. Cassel is the best QB on the roster and it's not even debatable.

The problem is that you care more about who is better today vs. who has the higher ceiling. If we followed your logic, there is absolutely no reason for Tannehill to start over Matt Moore.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
If I'm playing the lottery and you gave me two options:
Option 1: 75% chance of payout on $10. 0% chance of payout of a million dollars.
Option 2: 20% chance of payout on $10. 10% chance of payout of a million dollars.

I'm taking option B every single time. I could give a shit if Cassel is going to win us 8 games, but we lose those games more respectfully. We know with good certainty what his ceiling is and it's not the Super Bowl. We don't know what Stanzi's ceiling is. And we'll never know until we give him meaningful snaps.

This isn't to promote Stanzi. This is to say we shouldn't waste a single minute with a QB who does nothing for your future.

Neither Quinn nor Stanzi do anything for our future, either. It pains me to say it, but with this team, these coaches, and the situation what it is, Stanzi probably won't ever develop. It is what it is.

Even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Saying Cassel has zero chance of making it to one just isn't statistically accurate.

notorious
08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
I might stop reading threads about QB's until Cassel is gone. It's the same shit over and over.

Cassel sucks, and has ruined a pretty good team.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
The problem is that you care more about who is better today vs. who has the higher ceiling. If we followed your logic, there is absolutely no reason for Tannehill to start over Matt Moore.

You're damn right I care more about who is better today. Stanzi isn't ready. Why should I care what he might be in 5 fucking years? I don't.

L.A. Chieffan
08-23-2012, 04:59 PM
Quinn and Stanzi don't either. Cassel is the best QB on the roster and it's not even debatable.

Never has been.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:00 PM
Cassel is option B. Quinn and Stanzi aren't giving this team a better chance at a million dollars because Cassel is better. Sorry.

Cassel is not taking us to the Super Bowl. We know that with some degree of certainty because there is a mountain of playing time and evidence that indicates that he has flaws that he still not yet corrected.

Stanzi has a lot of unknown about him. Because he has the unknown, we don't know what his ceiling is. And it's pretty damn ridiculous that people have decided his ceiling before he has taken any meaningful starting snaps with this team.

You have a guy with no shot at a Super Bowl (Cassel) vs. a guy who has a longshot chance at one (Stanzi). This isn't a hard argument.

But by all means, enjoy celebrating another 9-7 season.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Stanzi has a lot known about him. We know he's not ready. Keep on pimpin that #3 spot.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Cassel is not taking us to the Super Bowl. We know that with some degree of certainty because there is a mountain of playing time and evidence that indicates that he has flaws that he still not yet corrected.

Stanzi has a lot of unknown about him. Because he has the unknown, we don't know what his ceiling is. And it's pretty damn ridiculous that people have decided his ceiling before he has taken any meaningful starting snaps with this team.

You have a guy with no shot at a Super Bowl (Cassel) vs. a guy who has a longshot chance at one (Stanzi). This isn't a hard argument.

But by all means, enjoy celebrating another 9-7 season.

Again, suggesting that Cassel has NO chance, when history suggests otherwise, isn't being objective.

At all.

If Stanzi or Quinn have "a chance" so does Cassel. You know why? Because NONE of them are going to win it by themselves.

L.A. Chieffan
08-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Cassel is not taking us to the Super Bowl. We know that with some degree of certainty because there is a mountain of playing time and evidence that indicates that he has flaws that he still not yet corrected.

Stanzi has a lot of unknown about him. Because he has the unknown, we don't know what his ceiling is. And it's pretty damn ridiculous that people have decided his ceiling before he has taken any meaningful starting snaps with this team.

You have a guy with no shot at a Super Bowl (Cassel) vs. a guy who has a longshot chance at one (Stanzi). This isn't a hard argument.

But by all means, enjoy celebrating another 9-7 season.
If Matt Hasselbeck and Rex Grossman can do it, Cassell can do it.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Stanzi has a lot known about him. We know he's not ready. Keep on pimpin that #3 spot.

Eli Manning and Philip Rivers looked a hell of a lot rougher than Stanzi did at this point in his career. JFC. This is why we'll never develop a QB. If we're willing to accept a mediocre QB instead of taking a risk on a developmental one.

It's a different story if you talked about a mediocre QB with upside. We're not. We're talking about a mediocre QB with the upside to be above-mediocre.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Fucking Alex Smith should have been in the SB and that was just last year.

J Diddy
08-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Cassel is not taking us to the Super Bowl. We know that with some degree of certainty because there is a mountain of playing time and evidence that indicates that he has flaws that he still not yet corrected.

Stanzi has a lot of unknown about him. Because he has the unknown, we don't know what his ceiling is. And it's pretty damn ridiculous that people have decided his ceiling before he has taken any meaningful starting snaps with this team.

You have a guy with no shot at a Super Bowl (Cassel) vs. a guy who has a longshot chance at one (Stanzi). This isn't a hard argument.

But by all means, enjoy celebrating another 9-7 season.

Everything I needed to know about Stanzi I found out already. He isn't the answer and, quite frankly, the only attraction to him is in his unknowns. However, what I do know is that he is very much not ready, if he will ever be.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Eli Manning and Philip Rivers looked a hell of a lot rougher than Stanzi did at this point in his career. JFC. This is why we'll never develop a QB. If we're willing to accept a mediocre QB instead of taking a risk on a developmental one.

It's a different story if you talked about a mediocre QB with upside. We're not. We're talking about a mediocre QB with the upside to be above-mediocre.

Oh boy! Now we are comparing 2 QB's who were THE guys and were pegged as franchise QB's to some 5th rounder from Iowa.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:05 PM
Again, suggesting that Cassel has NO chance, when history suggests otherwise, isn't being objective.

At all.

If Stanzi or Quinn have "a chance" so does Cassel. You know why? Because NONE of them are going to win it by themselves.

Obviously I'm being facetious.

But the standard I've always set isn't whether Cassel can take you to the Super Bowl. It's whether an average QB could do the same thing as Cassel in that same scenario. That's the problem. At this point, the bar isn't for Stanzi to be Eli Manning. The bar is that with a half a season, he can be better than Cassel. That's not unreasonable in the least.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:05 PM
I might stop reading threads about QB's until Cassel is gone. It's the same shit over and over.

Cassel sucks, and has ruined a pretty good team.

This times 100000000000000000000

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2012, 05:05 PM
Again, suggesting that Cassel has NO chance, when history suggests otherwise, isn't being objective.

At all.

If Stanzi or Quinn have "a chance" so does Cassel. You know why? Because NONE of them are going to win it by themselves.

History says a 7th round pick ins't going to win a Super Bowl.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:06 PM
Eli Manning and Philip Rivers looked a hell of a lot rougher than Stanzi did at this point in his career. JFC. This is why we'll never develop a QB. If we're willing to accept a mediocre QB instead of taking a risk on a developmental one.

It's a different story if you talked about a mediocre QB with upside. We're not. We're talking about a mediocre QB with the upside to be above-mediocre.

Dude, I am an Iowa fan. Stanzi is one of the best QBs to ever play there.

Comparing him to Eli Manning is flat laughable.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:06 PM
Again, suggesting that Cassel has NO chance, when history suggests otherwise, isn't being objective.

At all.

If Stanzi or Quinn have "a chance" so does Cassel. You know why? Because NONE of them are going to win it by themselves.

Introducing logic into a Cassel discussion is like sand papering a bobcats ass in a phone booth...

The end result isnt what you'd hoped for.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:07 PM
Oh boy! Now we are comparing 2 QB's who were THE guys and were pegged as franchise QB's to some 5th rounder from Iowa.

I'm talking about the idea that people "know what we have already."

Bull-fucking-shit. If Rivers and Eli, two elite prospects, are going to struggle embarrassingly in their first snaps as a pro, then why should we give up on Stanzi if he struggles too.

The difference is, I'm saying I don't know what we have in Stanzi. He could be really bad. And I acknowledge and always have acknowledged that he's a longshot.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm talking about the idea that people "know what we have already."

Bull-****ing-shit. If Rivers and Eli, two elite prospects, are going to struggle embarrassingly in their first snaps as a pro, then why should we give up on Stanzi if he struggles too.

The difference is, I'm saying I don't know what we have in Stanzi. He could be really bad. And I acknowledge and always have acknowledged that he's a longshot.

Because Stanzi was selected in the 5th ****ing round and wasn't an elite prospect. There's a huge difference. If you can't see the difference between the #1 pick and a 5th round pick then you are a ****ing moron.

Stanzi has to earn his shot on the field and he hasn't earned shit but the back seat.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:08 PM
Obviously I'm being facetious.

But the standard I've always set isn't whether Cassel can take you to the Super Bowl. It's whether an average QB could do the same thing as Cassel in that same scenario. That's the problem. At this point, the bar isn't for Stanzi to be Eli Manning. The bar is that with a half a season, he can be better than Cassel. That's not unreasonable in the least.

I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that Stanzi will never be better than Cassel, if for no other reason that he's not ever going to earn the right to play.

This is a conservative front office and staff when it comes to QB. He's not ever going to look like Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. So far, he hasn't even looked like Cassel.

buddha
08-23-2012, 05:08 PM
Oh boy! Now we are comparing 2 QB's who were THE guys and were pegged as franchise QB's to some 5th rounder from Iowa.

Exactly.

And for the record, both Rivers and Manning showed more fortitude and more general signs that they had "it" than has Stanzi in very limited play. In fact, Rivers showed enough to chase Drew Brees out of town.

Those comparisons aren't going anywhere.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Dude, I am an Iowa fan. Stanzi is one of the best QBs to ever play there.

Comparing him to Eli Manning is flat laughable.

I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning.

I am talking about people saying that they know what we have in Stanzi because they saw three preseason games in meaningless snaps. Same people who said Cassel turned everything around and was held back by Haley because he had two good starts in meaningless games against vanilla defenses.

The idea that we know what we have in a QB because of preseason games is outright laughable. Just as it was outright laughable that Giants fans and Chargers fans were scared shitless because their young QBs completely shit their pants in the early-going. I think people forget how bad Eli and Rivers looked in their first starts. They were really, really bad.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm talking about the idea that people "know what we have already."

Bull-****ing-shit. If Rivers and Eli, two elite prospects, are going to struggle embarrassingly in their first snaps as a pro, then why should we give up on Stanzi if he struggles too.

The difference is, I'm saying I don't know what we have in Stanzi. He could be really bad. And I acknowledge and always have acknowledged that he's a longshot.

ROFL

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:12 PM
History says a 7th round pick ins't going to win a Super Bowl.

The same number of 5th round picks and 7th round picks have won Super Bowls.

Any guess as to what that number is?

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:12 PM
I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning.

I am talking about people saying that they know what we have in Stanzi because they saw three preseason games in meaningless snaps. Same people who said Cassel turned everything around and was held back by Haley because he had two good starts in meaningless games against vanilla defenses.

The idea that we know what we have in a QB because of preseason games is outright laughable. Just as it was outright laughable that Giants fans and Chargers fans were scared shitless because their young QBs completely shit their pants in the early-going. I think people forget how bad Eli and Rivers looked in their first starts. They were really, really bad.

And neither were 5th round picks...

IF you are going to compare Stanzi to someone, you need to compare him to 5th round QB's that are still starting in the league...

It would be like comparing Terrance Copper to Jerry Rice if he only have the chance to prove himself.

WTF do you think these teams are doing during training camp and practice? Playing lawn darts? Shit they have been evaluating him for some time now. What more do you need?

buddha
08-23-2012, 05:13 PM
I'm talking about the idea that people "know what we have already."

Bull-****ing-shit. If Rivers and Eli, two elite prospects, are going to struggle embarrassingly in their first snaps as a pro, then why should we give up on Stanzi if he struggles too.

The difference is, I'm saying I don't know what we have in Stanzi. He could be really bad. And I acknowledge and always have acknowledged that he's a longshot.

Stanzi crumbles like a house of cards whenever a rusher is nearby. What more do you need to see? Do you think he might "grow out of that"?

The only mistake the front office made was not realizing this sooner and finding a better prospect to develop.

This has nothing to do with Iowa Football...I really couldn't care less. Any Chiefs fan should want what is best for KC, period. The amount of misplaced Stanzi hope/love on this site has been suffocating. Enough already! Time to deal in reality. Cassel is the guy for now and Brady Quinn is the back up. We need to get f'ing serious about finding and grooming a real QB of the future and very f'ing soon!

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:13 PM
Because Stanzi was selected in the 5th ****ing round and wasn't an elite prospect. There's a huge difference. If you can't see the difference between the #1 pick and a 5th round pick then you are a ****ing moron.

Stanzi has to earn his shot on the field and he hasn't earned shit but the back seat.

I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning, smart ass.

I'm talking about how even an elite prospect like Eli Manning looked like complete dog shit in his first few snaps. If Eli Manning looked like ass, why should we expect Stanzi to be throwing 3 TDs in his first stint?

What I'm asking is if you give Stanzi 6 full games with meaningful snaps, how much would he improve? None of us know that. Except for you, because you're convinced that two preseasons of limited snaps tells you everything you need to know about a QB.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:14 PM
I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning.

I am talking about people saying that they know what we have in Stanzi because they saw three preseason games in meaningless snaps. Same people who said Cassel turned everything around and was held back by Haley because he had two good starts in meaningless games against vanilla defenses.

The idea that we know what we have in a QB because of preseason games is outright laughable. Just as it was outright laughable that Giants fans and Chargers fans were scared shitless because their young QBs completely shit their pants in the early-going. I think people forget how bad Eli and Rivers looked in their first starts. They were really, really bad.

Eli and Rivers were high draft picks and got millions of dollars right off the bat.

Unfortunately for Stanzi, there is absolutely ZERO reason to give him the same number of chances those guys got.

There's a reason they were top guys and he was a 5th-round afterthought.

He's going to have to earn his playing time and to this point, he just hasn't done it.

J Diddy
08-23-2012, 05:15 PM
Introducing logic into a Cassel discussion is like sand papering a bobcats ass in a phone booth...

The end result isnt what you'd hoped for.


i don't know what result you would look for in sand papering a bobcats ass in a phone booth.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:15 PM
And neither were 5th round picks...

IF you are going to compare Stanzi to someone, you need to compare him to 5th round QB's that are still starting in the league...

It would be like comparing Terrance Copper to Jerry Rice if he only have the chance to prove himself.

WTF do you think these teams are doing during training camp and practice? Playing lawn darts? Shit they have been evaluating him for some time now. What more do you need?

I'm not comparing his upside and abilities to Eli Manning. I'm comparing him to an undrafted QB, Matt Cassel.

In terms of evaluation. The Chiefs have been evaluating Cassel for 3 years. Pioli has had, what, 7 years? How much more do you need there to prove he's NOT the answer?

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:15 PM
I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning, smart ass.

I'm talking about how even an elite prospect like Eli Manning looked like complete dog shit in his first few snaps. If Eli Manning looked like ass, why should we expect Stanzi to be throwing 3 TDs in his first stint?

What I'm asking is if you give Stanzi 6 full games with meaningful snaps, how much would he improve? None of us know that. Except for you, because you're convinced that two preseasons of limited snaps tells you everything you need to know about a QB.

If you aren't comparing them then why the **** do you keep comparing them?

I bolded and underlined the part that is the reason Stanzi gets less opportunity than Eli Manning and Philip Rivers. Stanzi was not and is not an elite prospect.

ChiefsCountry
08-23-2012, 05:16 PM
The same number of 5th round picks and 7th round picks have won Super Bowls.

Any guess as to what that number is?

I know its none. I'm also not on the Stanzi wagon either for the same reason. Our best shot is actually with Brady Quinn.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:16 PM
I'm not comparing him to Eli Manning, smart ass.

I'm talking about how even an elite prospect like Eli Manning looked like complete dog shit in his first few snaps. If Eli Manning looked like ass, why should we expect Stanzi to be throwing 3 TDs in his first stint?

What I'm asking is if you give Stanzi 6 full games with meaningful snaps, how much would he improve? None of us know that. Except for you, because you're convinced that two preseasons of limited snaps tells you everything you need to know about a QB.

No GM in his right might would risk his career to give some 5th round QB meaningful snaps, just to see if he would improve...

Dead man walking...

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:16 PM
I'm talking about how even an elite prospect like Eli Manning looked like complete dog shit in his first few snaps. If Eli Manning looked like ass, why should we expect Stanzi to be throwing 3 TDs in his first stint?

Dude, nobody is expecting him to throw even 1 TD, let alone 3.

But we do expect him to not pirouette and DROP THE BALL every time he gets pressured.

He's making DUMB mistakes right now, enough of them that he doesn't DESERVE another look until he corrects them.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:16 PM
i don't know what result you would look for in sand papering a bobcats ass in a phone booth.

:shrug:
me either...

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:18 PM
Eli and Rivers were high draft picks and got millions of dollars right off the bat.

Unfortunately for Stanzi, there is absolutely ZERO reason to give him the same number of chances those guys got.

There's a reason they were top guys and he was a 5th-round afterthought.

He's going to have to earn his playing time and to this point, he just hasn't done it.

And why doesn't that theory also apply to Cassel? After all his mediocre play over time, shouldn't there be a point where he has to earn playing time too? Why does the young, unproven guy have to climb a mountain to earn a starting job where the veteran, provenly mediocre guy has to prove beyond a miserably reasonable doubt that he no longer deserves the job?

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:20 PM
And why doesn't that theory also apply to Cassel? After all his mediocre play over time, shouldn't there be a point where he has to earn playing time too? Why does the young, unproven guy have to climb a mountain to earn a starting job where the veteran, provenly mediocre guy has to prove beyond a miserably reasonable doubt that he no longer deserves the job?

Cassel is the best QB on the roster. He's earned the snaps because he is better. Until someone shows they can be better than Cassel then no one deserves the snaps more than him.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:20 PM
I know its none. I'm also not on the Stanzi wagon either for the same reason. Our best shot is actually with Brady Quinn.

I am okay with Quinn.

At least with Quinn, there is some element of upside. There is zero element of upside with Cassel. I'm not a fan of winning meaningless games while we learn nothing new about the most important guy for our long-term future.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:21 PM
And why doesn't that theory also apply to Cassel? After all his mediocre play over time, shouldn't there be a point where he has to earn playing time too? Why does the young, unproven guy have to climb a mountain to earn a starting job where the veteran, provenly mediocre guy has to prove beyond a miserably reasonable doubt that he no longer deserves the job?

He's earned the playing time by default. He's far and away the best QB on the roster.

Now if you want to argue about why Pioli hasn't rectified that situation, I'm with you.

But given what we have at the QB position right now, Cassel is EASILY the best QB on the roster and it's not even close.

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:22 PM
I am okay with Quinn.

At least with Quinn, there is some element of upside. There is zero element of upside with Cassel. I'm not a fan of winning meaningless games while we learn nothing new about the most important guy for our long-term future.

Then Quinn is going to have to unseat Cassel which from reports he is failing to do.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:22 PM
Flacco is no better than Cassel.

Apart from that whole throwing for 300 yards in the AFC Championship game thing...

Reerun_KC
08-23-2012, 05:22 PM
He's earned the playing time by default. He's far and away the best QB on the roster.

Now if you want to argue about why Pioli hasn't rectified that situation, I'm with you.

But given what we have at the QB position right now, Cassel is EASILY the best QB on the roster and it's not even close.

Has to be done next year.

At least needs to draft a legit prospect in round 1 or 2.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:26 PM
What people fail to remember is that Krieg started 5 or 6 games that year. Montana elevated players, but it wasn't all him.

And this is why I slam Pioli so much for not bringing in a good backup QB.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Cassel is the best QB on the roster. He's earned the snaps because he is better.

He hasn't earned his snaps. He has been given a SHITLOAD more chances than any other QB would have in his same exact situation. Given the amount of chances he's gotten, he's at a breaking point where he should be fighting for his job. But he's not.

It's fucking ridiculous to judge a guy as being better because he was given chances, reps, and years and years of experience. Jon Kitna was better than a LOT of QBs during his career. That doesn't mean earned the right to start because he was decidedly mediocre given multiple opportunities.

SNR
08-23-2012, 05:29 PM
Cassel crumbles like a house of cards whenever a rusher is nearby.

FYP.

Stanzi is the QB on this roster least likely to crumble in the face of pressure.

However, let that not be an endorsement of betting our future on him. If our first round pick next year is not a QB, Pioli needs to be fucking fired. No more "bargains". Reach if you have to. Pay out the ass in a trade. Just fucking fix it. No more 2nd round picks who have everything but the arm. No more 3rd round picks with fantastic size yet can't hit the broad side of a barn. No more 4th round picks who need to retool their footwork and technique.

And DEFINITELY no fucking Landry Jones.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:29 PM
He hasn't earned his snaps. He has been given a SHITLOAD more chances than any other QB would have in his same exact situation. Given the amount of chances he's gotten, he's at a breaking point where he should be fighting for his job. But he's not.

It's ****ing ridiculous to judge a guy as being better because he was given chances, reps, and years and years of experience. Jon Kitna was better than a LOT of QBs during his career. That doesn't mean earned the right to start because he was decidedly mediocre given multiple opportunities.

STFU

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:30 PM
He hasn't earned his snaps. He has been given a SHITLOAD more chances than any other QB would have in his same exact situation. Given the amount of chances he's gotten, he's at a breaking point where he should be fighting for his job. But he's not.

It's ****ing ridiculous to judge a guy as being better because he was given chances, reps, and years and years of experience. Jon Kitna was better than a LOT of QBs during his career. That doesn't mean earned the right to start because he was decidedly mediocre given multiple opportunities.

He's absolutely earned his snaps, by default. He's the best QB on the roster, hands down.

The coaches aren't going to start Stanzi because Stanzi simply isn't better than Cassel, it's as simple as that.

If you want to blame someone, blame Pioli.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:30 PM
Then Quinn is going to have to unseat Cassel which from reports he is failing to do.

The problem is that the Chiefs walked into the season with the tightly held belief that Cassel was the starter until someone proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise.

And that's the big part of the problem. This should have been an open competition from the get-go. INstead, Pioli told Quinn flat-out that he's not the starter.

I wanted to see a fair QB competition, instead of a competition where the starter has to drop significantly and the backup has to rise significantly in order to see a switch.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:30 PM
Jon Kitna is a pretty good comparison for what Cassel's NFL career will end up being.

$60 milllion for Matt Kitnassel.

:facepalm:

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:31 PM
The problem is that the Chiefs walked into the season with the tightly held belief that Cassel was the starter until someone proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise.

And that's the big part of the problem. This should have been an open competition from the get-go. INstead, Pioli told Quinn flat-out that he's not the starter.

I wanted to see a fair QB competition, instead of a competition where the starter has to drop significantly and the backup has to rise significantly in order to see a switch.

Even if it was a fair competition Cassel has won.

STFU

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:32 PM
FYP.

Stanzi is the QB on this roster least likely to crumble in the face of pressure.

I watched EVERY snap of Stanzi's in college. Each and every single one. Based on that, I would agree with you.

But so far in this preseason, he's done exactly the opposite of what you say. He's crumbled in the face of pressure repeatedly, on damn near every play.

However, let that not be an endorsement of betting our future on him. If our first round pick next year is not a QB, Pioli needs to be ****ing fired. No more "bargains". Reach if you have to. Pay out the ass in a trade. Just ****ing fix it.

Yep.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-23-2012, 05:32 PM
Quinn and Stanzi don't either. Cassel is the best QB on the roster and it's not even debatable.

Welp, it's settled then; Pioli can't pick QB's for jack OR shit.

I might stop reading threads about QB's until Cassel is gone. It's the same shit over and over.

Cassel sucks, and has ruined a pretty good team.

QFT. The weakest link. Period.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:33 PM
The problem is that the Chiefs walked into the season with the tightly held belief that Cassel was the starter until someone proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise.

And that's the big part of the problem. This should have been an open competition from the get-go. INstead, Pioli told Quinn flat-out that he's not the starter.

I wanted to see a fair QB competition, instead of a competition where the starter has to drop significantly and the backup has to rise significantly in order to see a switch.

In a truly fair competition, Cassel wins 99 times out of 100. Sad but true.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:34 PM
In a truly fair competition, Cassel wins 99 times out of 100. Sad but true.

If you put Quinn repeatedly in practice with Baldwin, Moeaki, Bowe, Charles, the starting offensive line, etc..... Don't you think that gives a much fairer edge, vs. spending all your practices with the #2's and #3's?

I mean, fuck, Cassel's entire offense has been built around throwing to tight ends and running backs this offseason.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:36 PM
In a truly fair competition, Cassel wins 99 times out of 100. Sad but true.

Some people just wont get it. We need a QB in the worst way. Doesn't change the fact that Cassel is the best we have. Quinn is not better and neither is Stanzi. Stanzi MAY develop into something down the line but he is clearly the 3rd best QB on the roster, as of today, and no one is going to throw away a season because a 3rd string QB MAY develop into something years from now.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:36 PM
He's absolutely earned his snaps, by default. He's the best QB on the roster, hands down.

The coaches aren't going to start Stanzi because Stanzi simply isn't better than Cassel, it's as simple as that.

If you want to blame someone, blame Pioli.

That's not the way most teams approach that. Tannehill is not a better QB than Matt Moore. But he's earned the starting job.

Look, I get that Stanzi is a much bigger longshot than Tannehill. But the idea that a raw QB shouldn't beat out an experienced QB because he's not as good today makes it impossible for an average veteran QB to ever lose his job. The question is whether Quinn or Stanzi with reps and meaningful snaps can play as well as Cassel by mid-season, if not better. I think there is tremendous potential to do that.

SNR
08-23-2012, 05:36 PM
I watched EVERY snap of Stanzi's in college. Each and every single one. Based on that, I would agree with you.

But so far in this preseason, he's done exactly the opposite of what you say. He's crumbled in the face of pressure repeatedly, on damn near every play.
He crumbled under pressure in one game.

Last year's preseason (just watch the Bucs and Ravens game to see how he extended plays and sacrificed his body to make time for throws) and his college career say differently.

I'm not judging Steve Breaston's future as a WR on this year's preseason games because his past says different. Same goes for Ricky. The Rams game was SOME problem- either he was unfamiliar with the playbook, rattled from the pressure of the moment, or hell... maybe he wasn't in the game 100% mentally. I don't know WTF it was, but that wasn't the Ricky Stanzi I saw last year or at Iowa.

That being said, it must never happen again, or else it will be believed that that's the QB he really is.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:38 PM
That's not the way most teams approach that. Tannehill is not a better QB than Matt Moore. But he's earned the starting job.

Look, I get that Stanzi is a much bigger longshot than Tannehill. But the idea that a raw QB shouldn't beat out an experienced QB because he's not as good today makes it impossible for an average veteran QB to ever lose his job. The question is whether Quinn or Stanzi with reps and meaningful snaps can play as well as Cassel by mid-season, if not better. I think there is tremendous potential to do that.

Why should any QB beat someone out when they aren't better?

Osweiler is going to be in Denver a lot longer than Peyton Manning. Why is he not starting? He's raw and was drafted in the 2nd.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:38 PM
He's crumbled in the face of pressure repeatedly, on damn near every play.


Not even close to true.

Dude was fine in his first game.

In the second game he "crumbled" when a guy SLAMMED HIM IN THE HELMET right after he completed his drop. Just about every QB in the league does that.

The worst thing Stanzi has done this preseason is hold the ball too long once.

He hasn't been good enough to take anyone's job, but saying he's been a disaster is not accurate.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:41 PM
Why should any QB beat someone out when they aren't better?

Osweiler is going to be in Denver a lot longer than Peyton Manning. Why is he not starting? He's raw and was drafted in the 2nd.

Give me a fucking break. I am not in favor of starting Quinn or Stanzi over Peyton Manning, a guy with upside to take the team to the Super Bowl. I'm talking about starting them in favor of Cassel, a guy whose upside is to be a huge longshot to win the Super Bowl.

And again, your argument is completely predicated around the idea that veterans with experience who play mediocrely should be favored over young guys who play mediocre today but could play very well with experience.

SNR
08-23-2012, 05:42 PM
I'll laugh pretty hard if the coaching staff blindsides everyone and chooses Stanzi as the #2 QB.

SNR
08-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Give me a fucking break. I am not in favor of starting Quinn or Stanzi over Peyton Manning, a guy with upside to take the team to the Super Bowl. I'm talking about starting them in favor of Cassel, a guy whose upside is to be a huge longshot to win the Super Bowl.

And again, your argument is completely predicated around the idea that veterans with experience who play mediocrely should be favored over young guys who play mediocre today but could play very well with experience.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chiefzilla1501 again.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:43 PM
Give me a ****ing break. I am not in favor of starting Quinn or Stanzi over Peyton Manning, a guy with upside to take the team to the Super Bowl. I'm talking about starting them in favor of Cassel, a guy whose upside is to be a huge longshot to win the Super Bowl.

And again, your argument is completely predicated around the idea that veterans with experience who play mediocrely should be favored over young guys who play mediocre today but could play very well with experience.

Have you seen Peyton lately? Curious. He can't even throw a spiral 1/5 times.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:45 PM
If you put Quinn repeatedly in practice with Baldwin, Moeaki, Bowe, Charles, the starting offensive line, etc..... Don't you think that gives a much fairer edge, vs. spending all your practices with the #2's and #3's?

I mean, ****, Cassel's entire offense has been built around throwing to tight ends and running backs this offseason.

If Quinn had repeatedly demonstrated, while practicing with the 2's and 3's, that he deserved a chance to run with the 1's, you don't think they might try it, at least once?

At some point, the coaches' job is to get this team ready to win in the regular season. They can't spend the entire camp evaluating guys in some kind of futile hope that they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

If there's not a Super Bowl caliber on the roster, that's not the coaches' fault. That's Pioli's fault.

They've got PLENTY of familiarity with Quinn, that's why they brought him here in the 1st place. And it's also why he's currently a backup and not a starter.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:46 PM
Have you seen Peyton lately? Curious. He can't even throw a spiral 1/5 times.

And yet the Donks still pile up the passing yards.

He's fine.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:48 PM
If Quinn had repeatedly demonstrated, while practicing with the 2's and 3's, that he deserved a chance to run with the 1's, you don't think they might try it, at least once?

At some point, the coaches' job is to get this team ready to win in the regular season. They can't spend the entire camp evaluating guys in some kind of futile hope that they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

If there's not a Super Bowl caliber on the roster, that's not the coaches' fault. That's Pioli's fault.

They've got PLENTY of familiarity with Quinn, that's why they brought him here in the 1st place. And it's also why he's currently a backup and not a starter.

You don't think any of that was predicated on the idea that Pioli told Quinn flat out that he's the backup? It's not even like he said you could play very well and compete for the starting job. He told him flat-out that Cassel was the starter.

Which again goes to the idea... did Quinn never earn the right to first team reps? Or did Pioli make it very clear that that was never going to happen. It seems to me there is plenty of pressure from the top to say that it would have taken an act of god to remove Cassel from starting in game 1 this season.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:48 PM
And yet the Donks still pile up the passing yards.

He's fine.

Piling up the turnovers too.

Peyton Manning of old could barely make it through the playoffs and he was the best QB in the league. Why should I believe Peyton Manning of now can?

Don't get me wrong. I'd still take 70% of Peyton over Cassel.

mr. tegu
08-23-2012, 05:50 PM
Apart from that whole throwing for 300 yards in the AFC Championship game thing...

LMAO

That was one game against the 31st ranked pass defense in the league. Are you suggesting Flacco is NOT the reason the Ravens haven't made it to the Super Bowl recently? Because he is to the Ravens as Cassel is to the Chiefs.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Have you seen Peyton lately? Curious. He can't even throw a spiral 1/5 times.

Peyton at his absolute best is a Super Bowl QB. We know that.

Cassel at his absolute best is a borderline playoff QB... maybe not even that, in the wrong circumstances.

This isn't a hard argument here.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:51 PM
That's not the way most teams approach that. Tannehill is not a better QB than Matt Moore. But he's earned the starting job.

Look, I get that Stanzi is a much bigger longshot than Tannehill. But the idea that a raw QB shouldn't beat out an experienced QB because he's not as good today makes it impossible for an average veteran QB to ever lose his job. The question is whether Quinn or Stanzi with reps and meaningful snaps can play as well as Cassel by mid-season, if not better. I think there is tremendous potential to do that.

It absolutely is the way most teams approach it. Average veteran QBs get jobs in the NFL over and over and over again.

The only reason Tannehill is getting the nod here is because front offices always favor "their" guys. Tannehill was a high draft pick and the first draft pick of the new administration. If the competition in camp is even close, he's earned the right to compete for the starting job in the coaches' eyes. Ultimately, Philbin knows he doesn't have to win this year but he does have to win with Tannehill. He picked him and they're joined at the hip now, for better or worse.

mr. tegu
08-23-2012, 05:52 PM
And yet the Donks still pile up the passing yards.

He's fine.

Against Seattle. Funny. When Cassel does that he gets blasted because it's just Seattle but when Peyton does that with no TDs and two INTs it's a good outing.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:52 PM
Peyton at his absolute best is a Super Bowl QB. We know that.

Years ago when he could throw? Sure.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:53 PM
Years ago when he could throw? Sure.

And you are basing that on the logic that 2 preseason games tells you everything you need to know about where he'll be a quarter of the way into the season. There is at least that possibility.

There isn't that possibility with Cassel. He's a certainty in mediocrity. No upside, limited downside.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:53 PM
And again, your argument is completely predicated around the idea that veterans with experience who play mediocrely should be favored over young guys who play mediocre today but could play very well with experience.

Should be favored?

No. ARE favored.

The NFL has always been a quite conservative fraternity. That's what happens when these guys don't get a chance to think ahead. They have to win NOW.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:53 PM
LMAO

That was one game against the 31st ranked pass defense in the league. Are you suggesting Flacco is NOT the reason the Ravens haven't made it to the Super Bowl recently? Because he is to the Ravens as Cassel is to the Chiefs.

Joe Flacco played well enough to take the Ravens to the Super Bowl last year.

Call me when Cassel ever throws for 300 yards in a playoff game.

The Ravens won their division last year because of Joe Flacco, too. They swept the Steelers, and Flacco was freaking awesome in both games. He led a game-winning drive in the second one that was freaking incredible.

Don't you ever compare Joe Flacco to Matt Cassel. Flacco has actual talent, and has actually accomplished something in this league besides beating up on shitty teams.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 05:54 PM
Holy fuck, you know what Joe Flacco's record against playoff teams was last year?

7-1

In ONE YEAR Flacco had more than DOUBLE Cassel's wins against playoff teams FOR HIS CAREER.

LMAO

Flacco > Cassel

And the guy was pretty statistically productive in most of those games. At worst, he was "efficient."

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:54 PM
You don't think any of that was predicated on the idea that Pioli told Quinn flat out that he's the backup? It's not even like he said you could play very well and compete for the starting job. He told him flat-out that Cassel was the starter.

Which again goes to the idea... did Quinn never earn the right to first team reps? Or did Pioli make it very clear that that was never going to happen. It seems to me there is plenty of pressure from the top to say that it would have taken an act of god to remove Cassel from starting in game 1 this season.

Cassel's body of work is head and shoulders better than Quinn's. There's absolutely no comparison.

Pioli told Quinn he's the backup because that's precisely what he is, a backup.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:56 PM
And you are basing that on the logic that 2 preseason games tells you everything you need to know about where he'll be a quarter of the way into the season. There is at least that possibility.

There isn't that possibility with Cassel. He's a certainty in mediocrity. No upside, limited downside.

Tyson Jackson was this regime's very first pick.

If low ceiling/high floor REALLY pisses you off that much, you might as well find another team to root for.

Because they TRULY believe they can win this way.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:56 PM
And you are basing that on the logic that 2 preseason games tells you everything you need to know about where he'll be a quarter of the way into the season. There is at least that possibility.

There isn't that possibility with Cassel. He's a certainty in mediocrity. No upside, limited downside.

Umm. Peyton isn't simply trying to shake off rust. He's trying to shake of fucking nerve damage.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:58 PM
Should be favored?

No. ARE favored.

The NFL has always been a quite conservative fraternity. That's what happens when these guys don't get a chance to think ahead. They have to win NOW.

The problem is... if you exclude teams with elite, franchise QBs, KC is one of less than 5 teams that hasn't taken a chance on a first round QB in the past 10 years. (no, getting Quinn at basement prices doesn't count).

So I don't agree that this is true. Teams are taking chances at QBs and they're starting guys like Gabbert and Tannehill way before they're ready. KC is going against the trend here in their outright refusal to displace a mediocrely performing QB or at least bring in competition to do so (vs. bringing in a backup and declaring that guy as the definite backup).

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 05:58 PM
Umm. Peyton isn't simply trying to shake off rust. He's trying to shake of ****ing nerve damage.

There is a possibility with Peyton. Even if he's not 100%.

There is no possibility with Cassel.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 05:59 PM
The problem is... if you exclude teams with elite, franchise QBs, KC is one of less than 5 teams that hasn't taken a chance on a first round QB in the past 10 years. (no, getting Quinn at basement prices doesn't count).

So I don't agree that this is true. Teams are taking chances at QBs and they're starting guys like Gabbert and Tannehill way before they're ready. KC is going against the trend here in their outright refusal to displace a mediocrely performing QB or at least bring in competition to do so (vs. bringing in a backup and declaring that guy as the definite backup).

That isn't Cassel's fault. Nor is it relevant to why Cassel is starting over Quinn and/or Stanzi.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 05:59 PM
There is a possibility with Peyton. Even if he's not 100%.

There is no possibility with Cassel.

This is where you are wrong.

It's unlikely the Chiefs win in the playoffs with Cassel. It's more likely the Chiefs win with Cassel than with Quinn or Stanzi.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 06:00 PM
Cassel's body of work is head and shoulders better than Quinn's. There's absolutely no comparison.

Pioli told Quinn he's the backup because that's precisely what he is, a backup.

Quinn doesn't have very much starting experience. Which again begs the question, given his past experiences, if you give him some real NFL snaps can he fast-track development to become better than Cassel? I think he absolutely can.

Is Quinn better than Cassel today? No. But given that Cassel has had a bajillion chances to gain that experience, it's hard for an inexperienced guy to be.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 06:02 PM
This is where you are wrong.

There is a minimal chance assuming everything falls into place and Cassel has an outstanding performance from his supporting cast. And that again falls under the notion that Quinn couldn't develop his way with meaningful snaps into a QB that could do the exact same thing if not better (win games in a support, game manager role). It's a tremendous longshot.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 06:03 PM
There is a minimal chance assuming everything falls into place and Cassel has an outstanding performance from his supporting cast. And that again falls under the notion that Quinn couldn't develop his way with meaningful snaps into a QB that could do the exact same thing if not better (win games in a support, game manager role). It's a tremendous longshot.

Quinn has been in the league for 5 fucking years and dumped by 2 teams. He's a fucking bust.

htismaqe
08-23-2012, 06:04 PM
Quinn doesn't have very much starting experience. Which again begs the question, given his past experiences, if you give him some real NFL snaps can he fast-track development to become better than Cassel? I think he absolutely can.

Is Quinn better than Cassel today? No. But given that Cassel has had a bajillion chances to gain that experience, it's hard for an inexperienced guy to be.

It's the age-old problem - how can someone become "experienced" without ever being put into a position to gain said experience?

Look, if it were close, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it's not. Quinn is light years away from where Cassel is, especially when it comes to this offense.

They brought in Daboll for a reason - pound the ball, spread it around with short passes, and don't turn it over. It's the same formula as 2010. And for that formula, Cassel is 1000 times better than Quinn. I absolutely agree with you that Cassel has proven he can't make the big play. But Cassel has also proven that he can avoid the big mistake. In his albeit short playing career, Quinn hasn't shown that. Quite the opposite actually.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 06:05 PM
Quinn has been in the league for 5 ****ing years and dumped by 2 teams. He's a ****ing bust.

Cassel has been starting for almost 5 fucking years and has experience on top of that and still tops off as mediocre.

I'm not saying he's the answer. But Cassel has a body of work that says he's DEFINITELY not the answer.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 06:05 PM
Cassel has been starting for almost 5 ****ing years and has experience on top of that and still tops off as mediocre.

I'm not saying he's the answer. But Cassel has a body of work that says he's DEFINITELY not the answer.

This is like a never ending circle of stupid. I'm done.

Good luck. Have fun. Etc...

boogblaster
08-23-2012, 06:22 PM
as the circle-jerks

pimpchief
08-23-2012, 06:28 PM
The only one I would want is Bradford. Schaub is always hurt and Flacco is no better than Cassel.

Flacco is a pretty his quarterback, I've been watching him, he really adapts well to games.

whoman69
08-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Because Stanzi was selected in the 5th ****ing round and wasn't an elite prospect. There's a huge difference. If you can't see the difference between the #1 pick and a 5th round pick then you are a ****ing moron.

Stanzi has to earn his shot on the field and he hasn't earned shit but the back seat.

If I have a quarterback that I know is a fail, why does the unknown quarterback have to earn his shot? We can bang our heads against the wall and hope Cassel will get better despite evidence he still plays the same as he did when he got to KC. Or when Cassel fails again, we can try something else.

Its pretty clear Stanzi isn't ready now, but why stick with Cassel just because he got his shot four years ago and we haven't found someone else to replace him because Pioli isn't really trying to do that? The one on the short leash should be Cassel. If we get to the middle of the season and are struggling, Cassel should be benched. If Stanzi isn't deemed ready yet, go with Quinn. Don't stay with the sinking ship. There's no need to stay with Cassel just so we can finish 7-9 again.

If Cassel is the best we have right now, the bar is set. It should be playoffs and a playoff victory or he's gone. Its pretty harsh to say Stanzi is a bust in his first real training camp when he hasn't had any time with the first unit. I can give all the excuses for Stanzi that Cassel has gotten all these years. Stanzi was a 5th, Cassel was a 7th who probably wouldn't have been even drafted by any other team. He's Pioli's baby, but if Cassel can't cut it, you gotta let that go.

milkman
08-23-2012, 07:57 PM
****ing Alex Smith should have been in the SB and that was just last year.

No, fucking Alex Smith should not have been in the SB.

1 for 13 in third down passing in the NFC Championship game.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 08:01 PM
No, ****ing Alex Smith should not have been in the SB.

1 for 13 in third down passing in the NFC Championship game.

Both QBs sucked in that game. Smith had 2 impressive TD drives and the only reason they weren't in the SB was because they muffed 2 punts and lost them both.

milkman
08-23-2012, 08:07 PM
Both QBs sucked in that game. Smith had 2 impressive TD drives and the only reason they weren't in the SB was because they muffed 2 punts and lost them both.

Eli Manning made two huge third down conversions when they had to have them.

Alex Smith failed in every opportunity.

The fumbled punts are pointed to as the reason for the loss, but the bottom line is that, when either team needed to have their QB come up big against an outstanding defense, only one did, and that QB went to the SB.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 08:16 PM
Eli Manning made two huge third down conversions when they had to have them.

Alex Smith failed in every opportunity.

The fumbled punts are pointed to as the reason for the loss, but the bottom line is that, when either team needed to have their QB come up big against an outstanding defense, only one did, and that QB went to the SB.

Not sure how Smith failed at every opportunity. He led a game leading drive late in the 3rd. Only to watch the lead slip away as Eli was given back the ball on a muffed punt. Then he led a game tying FG drive. Only to have that wiped out by another muffed punt at the end of the game and they never got the ball back.

But, w/e. Alex Smith failed...

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 08:22 PM
So what do you guys think about Matt Cassel vs. Quinn/Stani? I'm surprised I haven't seen anything posted about it.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 08:22 PM
So what do you guys think about Matt Cassel vs. Quinn/Stani? I'm surprised I haven't seen anything posted about it.

I think we should all end each others misery.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-23-2012, 08:24 PM
I think we should all end each others misery.

:)

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 08:44 PM
Flacco is 27-36 for 266 yards tonight.

Suck it, Cassel.

SNR
08-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Flacco is 27-36 for 266 yards tonight.

Suck it, Cassel.
Christ. There is no "I know it's just preseason" thing to be said here.

One half of play and he puts that up. The fact that it's preseason makes it even MORE impressive and even more damning of the defense he was facing.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Not sure how Smith failed at every opportunity. He led a game leading drive late in the 3rd. Only to watch the lead slip away as Eli was given back the ball on a muffed punt. Then he led a game tying FG drive. Only to have that wiped out by another muffed punt at the end of the game and they never got the ball back.

But, w/e. Alex Smith failed...

Cool.

Then let's build off this formula.

While the majority of Super Bowl berths and victories are won by a handful of elite QBs, by all means our goal should be to build a superb team around a mediocre QB in the hopes of lucking into becoming the Bears or the Ravens.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2012, 09:19 PM
Christ. There is no "I know it's just preseason" thing to be said here.

One half of play and he puts that up. The fact that it's preseason makes it even MORE impressive and even more damning of the defense he was facing.

He played most of the third quarter, too.

It's still impressive.

If Cassel ever threw 36 passes in 3 quarters we'd be down by 21.

BossChief
08-23-2012, 09:27 PM
In a truly fair competition, Cassel wins 99 times out of 100. Sad but true.

Who knows?

Give Stanzi Cassels pocket and weapons and put Cassel on the group Stanzi has played with and who knows what happens.

Hard to say either way being that the team doesn't want anybody but Cassel to have any looks with the first teamers.

I do agree that Stanzi hasn't earned that right, yet...but I also think he has gotten a raw deal on the field so far, too.

Lets not act as if Cassel would be doing any better under the pressure Stanzi has seen in every game he has played in so far.

We have seen what happens to Cassel under pressure....even the kind of pressure he imagines and isn't really there.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 09:29 PM
Cool.

Then let's build off this formula.

While the majority of Super Bowl berths and victories are won by a handful of elite QBs, by all means our goal should be to build a superb team around a mediocre QB in the hopes of lucking into becoming the Bears or the Ravens.

Point me in the direction of the elite QB on our roster. Til then STFU

Cassel is our best option. Deal with it.

BossChief
08-23-2012, 09:30 PM
Eli Manning made two huge third down conversions when they had to have them.

Alex Smith failed in every opportunity.

The fumbled punts are pointed to as the reason for the loss, but the bottom line is that, when either team needed to have their QB come up big against an outstanding defense, only one did, and that QB went to the SB.

Its a testament to how good the rest of the team was that they should have made it to the superbowl despite Alex Smith.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Point me in the direction of the elite QB on our roster. Til then STFU

Cassel is our best option. Deal with it.

I can point you to one QB who has had a million and a half legit chances to be the answer and has failed. And then I can point you to the one gullible guy on this thread that thinks that on the million and first chance, he's going to start showing something.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 09:36 PM
I can point you to one QB who has had a million and a half legit chances to be the answer and has failed. And then I can point you to the one gullible guy on this thread that thinks that on the million and first chance, he's going to start showing something.

You have yet to give me a name of the elite QB on the Chiefs roster.

http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 09:40 PM
You have yet to give me a name of the elite QB on the Chiefs roster.

http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

I never said we had an elite QB.

I've said there is one QB who is definitively not the answer. And two guys who have an outside shot of being the answer, and a decent shot at being better than Cassel.

You're acting like they have some big bar to cross. No. They have to prove to be better than Matt Cassel. And with a few games under the belt, that is absolutely achievable.

Why do they have to be an elite QB to justify replacing a mediocre QB with no upside?

And why do you insist that these backups with few snaps to prove they're worthless have a huge mountain to climb to replace a starter with a million snaps that proves definitively that he's worthless?

jd1020
08-23-2012, 09:41 PM
I never said we had an elite QB.

I've said there is one QB who is definitively not the answer. And two guys who have an outside shot of being the answer, and a decent shot at being better than Cassel.

You're acting like they have some big bar to cross. No. They have to prove to be better than Matt Cassel. And with a few games under the belt, that is absolutely achievable.

Why do they have to be an elite QB to justify replacing a mediocre QB with no upside?

And why do you insist that these backups with few snaps to prove they're worthless have a huge mountain to climb to replace a starter with a million snaps that proves definitively that he's worthless?

Exactly. Until they do...

http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 10:06 PM
Exactly. Until they do...

http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

It's always funny when people use empathic clipart to back up an argument nobody else agrees with.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 10:09 PM
It's always funny when people use empathic clipart to back up an argument nobody else agrees with.

Nobody agrees with?

Pretty sure you were/are the only one saying that Cassel shouldn't be the starter with the current list of QB's on the roster.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2012, 10:15 PM
Nobody agrees with?

Pretty sure you were/are the only one saying that Cassel shouldn't be the starter with the current list of QB's on the roster.

I think you need to take a look around.

jd1020
08-23-2012, 10:19 PM
I think you need to take a look around.

.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:32 AM
I never said we had an elite QB.

I've said there is one QB who is definitively not the answer. And two guys who have an outside shot of being the answer, and a decent shot at being better than Cassel.

You're acting like they have some big bar to cross. No. They have to prove to be better than Matt Cassel. And with a few games under the belt, that is absolutely achievable.

Why do they have to be an elite QB to justify replacing a mediocre QB with no upside?

And why do you insist that these backups with few snaps to prove they're worthless have a huge mountain to climb to replace a starter with a million snaps that proves definitively that he's worthless?

They have to show SOMETHING in practice and so far Stanzi hasn't done that. How hard is that to understand?

He doesn't have to be all-world. He just has to flash enough to get them to say "wow, we should run him with the 1's just to see".

In camp, he would follow every sweet touch pass with a pick, kind of like his junior year at Iowa. He's not doing enough to WARRANT getting a look at this point, plain and simple.