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Tribal Warfare
08-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Crennel’s environment may be what Cassel needs (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/23/3776332/crennels-environment-might-just.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
The sample size is small and comes from in August, a month in which everything that happens in an NFL game should be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism.

But the Chiefs are quietly more than a little pleased with the play of their starting quarterback, Matt Cassel, through training camp and two preseason games. In those games, Cassel has completed 75 percent of his passes and taken the Chiefs to touchdowns on three of seven possessions and to a field goal on another.

The third game, in which Cassel and the rest of the offensive starters are likely to play their most in the preseason, is Friday. The Chiefs face the Seattle Seahawks at Arrowhead Stadium.

Cassel’s fast start may be meaningless when the Chiefs begin regular-season play Sept. 9 against Atlanta at Arrowhead. But they seem confident that Cassel’s current level of play has a good chance of continuing in the regular season.

For that, they cite a working environment for Cassel that is different under Romeo Crennel than it was under former coach Todd Haley.

It’s just not something anyone is willing to discuss in any detail on the record.

“I’m not going to answer that question,” quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn said. “That’s a loaded question.

“I will say this: I really like what’s going on because we’re all on the same page, and it’s been great.”

Cassel and the other quarterback from last season still with the Chiefs, Ricky Stanzi, had similar answers.

“The coaches are different, the atmosphere is different,” Cassel said. “We’ve got a new head coach, new players around us. You have to make adjustments every single year, and this is just another one.”

Stanzi said: “I don’t want to get into a comparison game really, to be honest with you. I don’t think it’s necessary at this point. This year and last year are different situations for me personally, being a rookie last year and this year having an offseason. Coach Crennel is on the defensive side of things, coach Haley (was) on the offensive side of things. There’s your difference.”

Haley, a receivers coach and offensive coordinator for various NFL teams before joining the Chiefs as head coach in 2009, was naturally going to be more hands-on with his quarterbacks than Crennel, who also serves as the defensive coordinator.

Occasionally, Haley may have been too hands-on. He had some sideline shouting matches with Cassel during games.

It’s no coincidence that the one strong season Cassel had while playing for Haley, in 2010 when he went to the Pro Bowl, he had offensive coordinator Charlie Weis acting as a buffer.

One of those shouting matches happened in a Dec, 26, 2010, game against Tennessee at Arrowhead Stadium. Cassel was yanked from the game in the third quarter for a couple of plays in favor of his backup, Brodie Croyle.

When Cassel got to the sideline, Haley loudly and profanely criticized Cassel in front of his teammates. He did the same thing again the next day in a team meeting.

Cassel hasn’t been the same since. He finished that season by throwing zero touchdowns and five interceptions in the final two games, against Oakland in the regular season and Baltimore in the playoffs.

Last year was also a struggle for Cassel in the nine games he played before breaking his hand.

The Chiefs fired Haley late last season and replaced him with Crennel. Since he’s the defensive coordinator as well, Crennel spends a lot of his time on that side of things.

But the head coach sets the tone, and by all appearances Crennel’s hand has been far gentler than Haley’s was. Perhaps it’s telling that the Chiefs’ other quarterback, Brady Quinn, turned down more money from the Broncos to sign with Kansas City.

Quinn played for the Cleveland Browns when Crennel was their head coach.

“He allows you to kind of do your thing out there,” Quinn said of Crennel. “The one thing he always wants is for you to protect the ball. Being a defensive guy, he knows how valuable turnovers are. Besides that, he really allows the quarterback to kind of take over and be the leader of the team.

“I’ve always enjoyed (playing for Crennel), and that’s one of the reasons I wanted to sign here.”

After making Crennel their head coach, the Chiefs focused on creating an environment in which Cassel could flourish. They hired Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator. Daboll worked with Cassel when both were with the Patriots.

The Chiefs also signed free agents in running back Peyton Hillis, tight end Kevin Boss and offensive tackle Eric Winston. All moves were aimed at making it easier for Cassel to do his job.

“I don’t like to make comparisons,” Cassel said. “I’ll focus on this year. This year has been great so far. Coach Crennel has been supportive of us. He pushes us in the right direction. He preaches technique. As a quarterback, you appreciate what he’s doing for our ball club.

“The quarterback position is a hard job to play every single year. I’m not going to say it’s easier this year versus other years. We’ll just have to see.”

Chiefs Pantalones
08-23-2012, 11:47 PM
It must be frustrating as hell to have a game manager at QB if you're a head coach. Dude probably caused Haley to get counseling looking at the game film of Cassel's fuck ups. Haley was a dumbass but I felt sorry for him. He didn't have a chance in hell. No coach does when you have a coach killer.

Douche Baggins
08-24-2012, 01:26 AM
2012 Kansas City Chiefs: IT WAS ALL HALEY'S FAULT

Fruit Ninja
08-24-2012, 02:51 AM
i was listening to the Tiecher interview on 810 a few hours ago, and he was doing nothing but apologizing for Cassel.

Guru
08-24-2012, 02:52 AM
i was listening to the Tiecher interview on 810 a few hours ago, and he was doing nothing but apologizing for Cassel.

Of course he was. It is this years rally cry.

milkman
08-24-2012, 04:44 AM
Awwwwww......Did poor little Matty Melt need a hug?

|Zach|
08-24-2012, 04:46 AM
It must be frustrating as hell to have a game manager at QB if you're a head coach. Dude probably caused Haley to get counseling looking at the game film of Cassel's **** ups. Haley was a dumbass but I felt sorry for him. He didn't have a chance in hell. No coach does when you have a coach killer.

This is dumb.

Marcellus
08-24-2012, 06:05 AM
This place bashed the fuck out of Haley, when the KC Star does it or the players do, its now just an excuse.

LMAO

milkman
08-24-2012, 06:10 AM
This place bashed the **** out of Haley, when the KC Star does it or the players do, its now just an excuse.

LMAO

I supported Haley.

I still feel that he ha sthe potential to be a very good HC, though I recognize he has to grow up.

I was hoping that he would grow up on the job, but that won't happen now, obviously.

But, if your QB can't stand up to the pressure from your head coach, then how the hell can we expect him to stand up to the pressure of games that really matter?

Do I expect Cassel to fluorish under the softer hand of Crennel in the regular season?

Absolutely, which is why I have said that I expect him to put up pretty good numbers.

But, as I've said numerous times, I also expect him to melt when the pressure to perform is on.

Marcellus
08-24-2012, 06:17 AM
I supported Haley.

I still feel that he ha sthe potential to be a very good HC, though I recognize he has to grow up.

I was hoping that he would grow up on the job, but that won't happen now, obviously.

But, if your QB can't stand up to the pressure from your head coach, then how the hell can we expect him to stand up to the pressure of games that really matter?

Do I expect Cassel to fluorish under the softer hand of Crennel in the regular season?

Absolutely, which is why I have said that I expect him to put up pretty good numbers.

But, as I've said numerous times, I also expect him to melt when the pressure to perform is on.

I m not blaming Haley for all of Cassel's failures. I was a Haley supporter right up until he kept starting Palko.

Cassel doesn't seem to be tough enough to stand on his own in that type of environment though so maybe the change will do him some good.

I just think its funny how the people that want to have something to bitch about all the time argue both sides of the argument depending on what the story is.

|Zach|
08-24-2012, 06:19 AM
But, if your QB can't stand up to the pressure from your head coach, then how the hell can we expect him to stand up to the pressure of games that really matter?



Most of what you said is reasonable and I agree with it but...I feel like you are mischartectarizing what seems to have been a toxic situation with pressure.

Sure, athletes need to perform under tough and pressure filled conditions. They get paid a shit ton of money to do just that. In the Chiefs case it felt more like this weird unpredictable side show with OC's getting fired out of nowhere trust being tenuous at best.

Nobody wins in a workplace environment that is toxic.

So when we see articles talking about how (from the outside looking in) the situation seems more even keeled and productive instead of chaotic and constantly changing the "poor Matt" responses comes off as silly to me.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 06:19 AM
This place bashed the **** out of Haley, when the KC Star does it or the players do, its now just an excuse.

LMAO

You know why?

Because the people that bashed Haley (and he ABSOLUTELY deserved it) also realize that Haley wasn't/isn't 100% of the problem.

The Star, and especially Teicher, seem to be okay with the current staff and front office blaming EVERYTHING on Haley.

"The crazy guy is gone, everything is fixed!"

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 06:22 AM
Nobody wins in a workplace environment that is toxic.

Absolutely.

Just keep in mind that the current environment is (allegedly) no longer toxic because Scott has COMPLETELY removed any source of dissension in the staff. He hired a buddy, who hired a former buddy, and on and on and on.

That kind of system, while not outwardly dysfunctional in public, is just as prone to FAILURE, especially in a highly-competitive arena like professional sports.

|Zach|
08-24-2012, 06:24 AM
Absolutely.

Just keep in mind that the current environment is (allegedly) no longer toxic because Scott has COMPLETELY removed any source of dissension in the staff. He hired a buddy, who hired a former buddy, and on and on and on.

That kind of system, while not outwardly dysfunctional in public, is just as prone to FAILURE, especially in a highly-competitive arena like professional sports.

That absolutely could be. I liked Haley...I agree with what milkman said about him...wanting him to grow into the job a bit more.

the Talking Can
08-24-2012, 06:28 AM
poor Matt...


it's rough...I bet Rothlessraper will be the worst QB in the league now that Haley is hurting his fee fees...

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-24-2012, 06:48 AM
I really feel like Crennel is the man for the job. We are lucky the way it went down last year and that he got another shot. Crennel is going to listen and that's what Cassel needs. I think he wanted an offensive coordinator that would listen to Cassel and simply ask him what he wants to do and taylor the playbook to his skill set. Letting him change the plays tells me this theory is correct.

Make no mistake, this is Cassel's last shot. This is probably Crennel's last shot at being a HC. If Pioli doesn't win this year, he is probably out. There is alot riding on the focal points of the team. The organization has done everything in it's power to give Cassel his best chance to succeed this year. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder and I believe he'll just say "**** it" and let go. I think you will see a different leader and a guy who just lets it rip. This will not be the Cassel of the past and a large part of the reason will be because Romeo knows what the in **** he's doing. Cassel is an average QB but Haley definately ****ed him up. He had no faith in him and it can't work that way. The HC and the QB need to have their destinies innertwined.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 06:52 AM
I really feel like Crennel is the man for the job. We are lucky the way it went down last year and that he got another shot. Crennel is going to listen and that's what Cassel needs. I think he wanted an offensive coordinator that would listen to Cassel and simply ask him what he wants to do and taylor the playbook to his skill set. Letting him change the plays tells me this theory is correct.

Make no mistake, this is Cassel's last shot. This is probably Crennel's last shot at being a HC. If Pioli doesn't win this year, he is probably out. There is alot riding on the focal points of the team. The organization has done everything in it's power to give Cassel his best chance to succeed this year. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder and I believe he'll just say "**** it" and let go. I think you will see a different leader and a guy who just lets it rip. This will not be the Cassel of the past and a large part of the reason will be because Romeo knows what the in **** he's doing.

I sincerely hope you're right but I'm not holding my breath.

This is too eerily similar to Carl hiring Herm. I'm not at all convinced Romeo is anything more than a solid "yes man" for Pioli and big brother for the players.

I want to have hope but I see it ending in heartbreak. We'll be just good enough to get everybody excited and then they'll collapse.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-24-2012, 07:00 AM
I sincerely hope you're right but I'm not holding my breath.

This is too eerily similar to Carl hiring Herm. I'm not at all convinced Romeo is anything more than a solid "yes man" for Pioli and big brother for the players.

I want to have hope but I see it ending in heartbreak. We'll be just good enough to get everybody excited and then they'll collapse.

Maybe you are right to some extent? However, I think Romeo is different than Herm. Romeo will bring consistancy and the players will be in football shape. He's also alot better than Herm at the x's and o's. What I do know is that at this point, Pioli is going to do what is in his best interest to keep his job. That includes going with Crennel and Cassel imo.

It's going to be different this year. This is the year boys. We have the horses and we are due. We are going to make a serious run and I would almost guarantee a playoff win.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2012, 07:03 AM
This place bashed the **** out of Haley, when the KC Star does it or the players do, its now just an excuse.

LMAO

QFT....

Ironic isnt it? The hyprocrosy runs rampant around here....

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-24-2012, 07:07 AM
QFT....

Ironic isnt it? The hyprocrosy runs rampant around here....

Yep. I think it's more about the Star's hate for Pioli. It's the way he closed them off and shut them out. They knew Haley sucked but they needed him because they had nothing. It got so bad that they were almost making shit up.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2012, 07:09 AM
The Star, and especially Teicher, seem to be okay with the current staff and front office blaming EVERYTHING on Haley.


The current staff and players are being asked loaded questions. For the most part their collective reply has been "I'm not getting into it, things are smoother this year." They could be a lot more blunt especially when over half the Chief fans believed and/or still believed the dumbass rumor that Haley took Cassel under his wing and was the reason for his 'success' in 2010.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:09 AM
Yep. I think it's more about the Star's hate for Pioli. It's the way he closed them off and shut them out. They knew Haley sucked but they needed him because they had nothing. It got so bad that they were almost making shit up.

Kent Babb? Yes. The Star? Not at all.

Teicher LOVES Pioli and won't say a bad word about any of them.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:12 AM
The current staff and players are being asked loaded questions. For the most part their collective reply has been "I'm not getting into it, things are smoother this year." They could be a lot more blunt especially when over half the Chief fans believed and/or still believed the dumbass rumor that Haley took Cassel under his wing and was the reason for his 'success' in 2010.

I wish I could go out and find the quote now but a couple of weeks ago Pioli OFFERED the "Haley excuse" (I think it might have been in his interview with Jack Harry now that I think about it). The question was about the cohesion of the current staff and Pioli came right out and bashed Haley. The only thing he didn't do was explicitly say his name.

He's not always being asked loaded questions. That's BS.

This isn't an either/or situation. The truth, as usual, lies right smack in the middle.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2012, 07:12 AM
Kent Babb? Yes. The Star? Not at all.

Teicher LOVES Pioli and won't say a bad word about any of them.

Which is sad, unless someone is bashing the Chiefs, Pioli or Cassel then they just dont know what they are talking about.

Any praise by anybody deserved or not, is not well received on this message board. If you want to be cool poster or a media writer that is "in the know" then you have to present opinions that are nothing but negative in nature..

That is why so many around here swing from Whitlocks sweaty nut sack.

Dave Lane
08-24-2012, 07:17 AM
2012 Kansas City Chiefs: IT WAS ALL HALEY'S FAULT

No shit he probably caused global warming too

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:19 AM
Which is sad, unless someone is bashing the Chiefs, Pioli or Cassel then they just dont know what they are talking about.

Any praise by anybody deserved or not, is not well received on this message board. If you want to be cool poster or a media writer that is "in the know" then you have to present opinions that are nothing but negative in nature..

That is why so many around here swing from Whitlocks sweaty nut sack.

How about we examine things with a critical eye and try to be objective?

It's unfortunate, but more often than not, with THIS franchise, being realistic results in being negative.

That's what happens when you haven't won a playoff game in nearly two decades.

Dave Lane
08-24-2012, 07:21 AM
I really feel like Crennel is the man for the job. We are lucky the way it went down last year and that he got another shot. Crennel is going to listen and that's what Cassel needs. I think he wanted an offensive coordinator that would listen to Cassel and simply ask him what he wants to do and taylor the playbook to his skill set. Letting him change the plays tells me this theory is correct.

Make no mistake, this is Cassel's last shot. This is probably Crennel's last shot at being a HC. If Pioli doesn't win this year, he is probably out. There is alot riding on the focal points of the team. The organization has done everything in it's power to give Cassel his best chance to succeed this year. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder and I believe he'll just say "**** it" and let go. I think you will see a different leader and a guy who just lets it rip. This will not be the Cassel of the past and a large part of the reason will be because Romeo knows what the in **** he's doing. Cassel is an average QB but Haley definately ****ed him up. He had no faith in him and it can't work that way. The HC and the QB need to have their destinies innertwined.


Cassel has balls the size of BBs. No way he sacks up for anything. He gets rattled all the time, is extremely timid and very limited in his mental and physical approach to the game. Other than that he's fine.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2012, 07:23 AM
Cassel has balls the size of BBs. No way he sacks up for anything.

Not true. The guy is tough as nails. He blocks. He'll get into scrums to protect teammates. Play hurt. Return from surgery quickly. Physically he's pretty tough. Mentally in game pressure, not so much.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2012, 07:27 AM
How about we examine things with a critical eye and try to be objective?

It's unfortunate, but more often than not, with THIS franchise, being realistic results in being negative.

That's what happens when you haven't won a playoff game in nearly two decades.

My son wasnt even born the last time they won.

Reerun_KC
08-24-2012, 07:28 AM
Cassel has balls the size of BBs. No way he sacks up for anything. He gets rattled all the time, is extremely timid and very limited in his mental and physical approach to the game. Other than that he's fine.

no offense bro, but now you are just making shit up to support your stance..

Questioning Cassels toughness and leadership is the last thing we should.

He has his faults but being tough and loyal to his teammates isnt one of them.

WV
08-24-2012, 07:32 AM
I'd just love to see Cassels decision making become consistently better and more concise, we all know he's pretty much peaked physically we just need him to be smarter on the field. If Crennel can help with this then great, but I just hope another year of better than usual mediocrity doesn't mean Cassel gets more time.

milkman
08-24-2012, 07:32 AM
no offense bro, but now you are just making shit up to support your stance..

Questioning Cassels toughness and leadership is the last thing we should.

He has his faults but being tough and loyal to his teammates isnt one of them.

Loyalty and leadership are not the same thing.

I don't believe there's any question about Cassel's loyalty.

As for his toughness, yeah, he'll get out and block, he'll jump in a scrum to protect teammates, but his balls shrivel up in the face of pressure, even when that pressure is only in his mind.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:37 AM
Well, the bottom line is that all of the excuses are out the window.

The Chiefs official representatives - Mitch, Trent Green, etc. - have spent the preseason REPEATEDLY mentioning that Daboll's offense is this great thing because it allows Cassel to call plays at the line, plays the HE is comfortable with.

There has been at least one occasion (that my mushy brain can remember) this preseason where Cassel checked the play at the line and audibled into a running play on THIRD DOWN - the play ultimately came up short and they were forced to punt.

Cassel has the COMPLETE freedom now to tweak the offense at the line and COMPLETELY AVOID the situations (aka pressure) that cause him to piss down his leg. The interesting thing to see will be whether or not the plays he calls allow them to MOVE THE CHAINS.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-24-2012, 07:41 AM
Kent Babb? Yes. The Star? Not at all.

Teicher LOVES Pioli and won't say a bad word about any of them.

He's kissing ass for a story imo.

Ace Gunner
08-24-2012, 07:41 AM
I really feel like Crennel is the man for the job. We are lucky the way it went down last year and that he got another shot. Crennel is going to listen and that's what Cassel needs. I think he wanted an offensive coordinator that would listen to Cassel and simply ask him what he wants to do and taylor the playbook to his skill set. Letting him change the plays tells me this theory is correct.

Make no mistake, this is Cassel's last shot. This is probably Crennel's last shot at being a HC. If Pioli doesn't win this year, he is probably out. There is alot riding on the focal points of the team. The organization has done everything in it's power to give Cassel his best chance to succeed this year. He'll play with a chip on his shoulder and I believe he'll just say "**** it" and let go. I think you will see a different leader and a guy who just lets it rip. This will not be the Cassel of the past and a large part of the reason will be because Romeo knows what the in **** he's doing. Cassel is an average QB but Haley definately ****ed him up. He had no faith in him and it can't work that way. The HC and the QB need to have their destinies innertwined.


As mild mannered as Romeo is, he is almost as unforgiving with his players as Haley is. It's just that he doesn't blow a gasket the way Haley does, but he will pull the trigger just about the same time as Haley would.

The systems used by these men are very much coach driven -- they don't rely on top performers as much as well coached performers, hence the "right 53 is not neccessarily the best players, but the right players" explanations of how they choose personnel.

Romeo was not kind when he pulled Palko for Orton, he basically said during his first HC presser last season that Palko was terrible and needed to siddown and that was that.

I can't stand Matt Cassel, but I can't fault anything about him so far this season. Cassel, as I said in another thread recently, is perhaps the most consistent player so far this pre season. I would not attribute this to Haley's firing, but instead see this as a natural progression for Cassel, who is entering season four with this team. The system has been the same, tweaked gently by each new OC and Cassel continues to progress, mechanically -- I'll wait until the season is rolling before I judge Cassel's strategic progress. I agree with you on Cassel's situation -- this season could be his last if he falters.

RC and Pioli will get another season regardless unless something really goes wrong, in which case Pioli could change coaches, but 34 defense coords are few and I don't think this year will unravel, just underwhelm.

I think they still have consistency problems stopping the run, pass rushing (though it should improve some with Houston's growth in the system) and short ydg/3rd down offense which are the strengths of better teams. But it is go time for this staff and I'm confident RC will continue to pull the trigger on players that under perform.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 07:42 AM
He's kissing ass for a story imo.

Did I ever suggest otherwise?

Not everybody at the Star has an anti-Pioli agenda. Whether or not he's kissing as is irrelevant. He's defended the Chiefs at every juncture this offseason.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-24-2012, 07:44 AM
Cassel has balls the size of BBs. No way he sacks up for anything. He gets rattled all the time, is extremely timid and very limited in his mental and physical approach to the game. Other than that he's fine.

I agree about the mental approach. His leadership has been his worst quality in my opinion. It's do or die for Cassel. Kill or be killed. Now or never. He has to step up his leadership now if he wants to continue to be an NFL QB. I had no faith that it could be done until I saw Alex Smith last year.

DTW, I hear you htismage. We are saying the same thing.

bevischief
08-24-2012, 08:01 AM
Maybe you are right to some extent? However, I think Romeo is different than Herm. Romeo will bring consistancy and the players will be in football shape. He's also alot better than Herm at the x's and o's. What I do know is that at this point, Pioli is going to do what is in his best interest to keep his job. That includes going with Crennel and Cassel imo.

It's going to be different this year. This is the year boys. We have the horses and we are due. We are going to make a serious run and I would almost guarantee a playoff win.


Hope you are right.

CoMoChief
08-24-2012, 08:11 AM
2012 Kansas City Chiefs: IT WAS ALL HALEY'S FAULT

Well.....what HC treated their camp like a 3-week walkthrough, then ended up not being prepared for reg season play? HALEY

Who was in favor of playing Tyler Palko for 4 games? HALEY

- Now, what other options were there? We had him, Stanzi or Orton on a few days of practice. You can make the argument that given what we had in the cupboard, Orton on even 1 day of practice would be better than trotting out Stanzi or Palko.

If Orton played those games against the Bears, Steelers, and Jets we're not even talking about this and Orton is probably our starting QB because we would have gone to the playoffs.

Haley was way in over his head as a HC and that's a fact. Was everything Haley's fault? No. The injuries weren't, though Moeaki's technically was because no starter should ever be playing in the 4th qtr of a 4th preseason game, esp a starter that has so much value on the offense. That's just stupid.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2012, 08:14 AM
I'm more worried about the defense. The offense will be a run first, take what the defense gives you and KC has the personnel to run it well.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 08:15 AM
I'm more worried about the defense. The offense will be a run first, take what the defense gives you and KC has the personnel to run it well.

Yep. That's what made the 2nd game so freaking alarming.

The Rams were coming off an AWFUL game. They made our supposedly stout defense look like spreadable cream cheese...

CoMoChief
08-24-2012, 08:17 AM
Maybe you are right to some extent? However, I think Romeo is different than Herm. Romeo will bring consistancy and the players will be in football shape. He's also alot better than Herm at the x's and o's. What I do know is that at this point, Pioli is going to do what is in his best interest to keep his job. That includes going with Crennel and Cassel imo.

It's going to be different this year. This is the year boys. We have the horses and we are due. We are going to make a serious run and I would almost guarantee a playoff win.

I sure hope so but I'm not counting on it. There's a lot of IF's on this team

IF Cassel can improve (this is the most important)
IF Hillis can bounce back to his former self
IF Charles can stay healthy
IF Berry can stay healthy
- I'd include Moeaki but we signed Boss and can be used as insurance if need be
IF the NT position has finally been addressed
IF Routt can somewhat makeup for the loss of Carr (I think we're all going to be sorry over this signing)
IF Hudson can come in at center this season as the new starter and be effective at a new position.

CoMoChief
08-24-2012, 08:21 AM
Yep. That's what made the 2nd game so freaking alarming.

The Rams were coming off an AWFUL game. They made our supposedly stout defense look like spreadable cream cheese...

That was a very vanilla defense we played. We hardly blitzed....lots of nickle/dime 3 or 4 man rushes and Bradford had all day to throw. What alarmed me was the secondary play when Flowers isn't on the field. In their defense, they can't cover when the QB has all day to throw, but still...it was bad, the safeties came up to the LOS and bit on every PA...it was just a bad night for the passing defense.

If this defense is going to be good, we have to blitz the QB...from all sides, from all positions. It's that simple. We don't have the kind of DT's that get a lot of pressure on the QB. We have to send LB's.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2012, 08:23 AM
That was a very vanilla defense we played. We hardly blitzed....lots of nickle/dime 3 or 4 man rushes and Bradford had all day to throw. What alarmed me was the secondary play when Flowers isn't on the field. In their defense, they can't cover when the QB has all day to throw, but still...it was bad, the safeties came up to the LOS and bit on every PA...it was just a bad night for the passing defense.

If this defense is going to be good, we have to blitz the QB...from all sides, from all positions. It's that simple. We don't have the kind of DT's that get a lot of pressure on the QB. We have to send LB's.

Romeo hardly blitzes in regular season, or so it seems.

Lewis and Berry both had bad nights, especially Lewis.

One of the things that surprised me the most watching the game was Hudson's lack of mobility on some running plays where he had to pull. In college he was great on the move. I don't know if it was an off night, or maybe he put on some weight and lost some mobility.

InChiefsHell
08-24-2012, 08:28 AM
Regarding Cassel's whole career in KC, I do believe that you have to take into account that he had 4 coordinators in 4 years, and one of them was his asshole head coach. I'm sure it made it very hard for him to concentrate and to do the right thing.

Having said that, a QB is supposed to be the toughest mental giant on a team, and at the end of it all, that is where Cassel is weakest. Mechanics are solid, toughness is unquestionable, but mentally he is very "rattle-able" and that makes him weak as a starter.

Perhaps Romeo can foster that confidence and mental toughness that Cassel needs, but it's obviously not something that comes naturally to him. So we'll see. I'm pulling for him of course, but I pull for anyone in a Chiefs uni.

Except Palko. That shit was unbearable.

milkman
08-24-2012, 08:30 AM
Regarding Cassel's whole career in KC, I do believe that you have to take into account that he had 4 coordinators in 4 years, and one of them was his asshole head coach. I'm sure it made it very hard for him to concentrate and to do the right thing.

Having said that, a QB is supposed to be the toughest mental giant on a team, and at the end of it all, that is where Cassel is weakest. Mechanics are solid, toughness is unquestionable, but mentally he is very "rattle-able" and that makes him weak as a starter.

Perhaps Romeo can foster that confidence and mental toughness that Cassel needs, but it's obviously not something that comes naturally to him. So we'll see. I'm pulling for him of course, but I pull for anyone in a Chiefs uni.

Except Palko. That shit was unbearable.

Cassel's mechanics might be solid now, but they never have been before.

And when the real bullets start flying, then in all likelyhood, like many before him, he will return to his old bad habits.

Micjones
08-24-2012, 09:01 AM
Well, the bottom line is that all of the excuses are out the window.

The Chiefs official representatives - Mitch, Trent Green, etc. - have spent the preseason REPEATEDLY mentioning that Daboll's offense is this great thing because it allows Cassel to call plays at the line, plays the HE is comfortable with.

There has been at least one occasion (that my mushy brain can remember) this preseason where Cassel checked the play at the line and audibled into a running play on THIRD DOWN - the play ultimately came up short and they were forced to punt.

Cassel has the COMPLETE freedom now to tweak the offense at the line and COMPLETELY AVOID the situations (aka pressure) that cause him to piss down his leg. The interesting thing to see will be whether or not the plays he calls allow them to MOVE THE CHAINS.

I don't think we can take that one play and extract anything meaningful from it.
He'll guess wrong. Just as Daboll will from time to time.

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 09:05 AM
I don't think we can take that one play and extract anything meaningful from it.
He'll guess wrong. Just as Daboll will from time to time.

It wasn't that he guessed wrong, it's that he defaulted to something ultra-conservative.

It wasn't 3rd and like 3, it was 3rd and like 6. And he called a running play.

I'm not suggesting that he'll do that every time. But it will be interesting to see if he does it enough to really stifle the offense.

Dave Lane
08-24-2012, 09:14 AM
Not true. The guy is tough as nails. He blocks. He'll get into scrums to protect teammates. Play hurt. Return from surgery quickly. Physically he's pretty tough. Mentally in game pressure, not so much.

For taking risks on downfield passes is what I'm talking about.

Dave Lane
08-24-2012, 09:16 AM
Cassel's mechanics might be solid now, but they never have been before.

And when the real bullets start flying, then in all likelyhood, like many before him, he will return to his old bad habits.

Castles mechanics while maybe better are not solid, he still splays his legs apart like he's trying to do the high hurdles.

Douche Baggins
08-24-2012, 09:22 AM
It was Haley's fault...all Haley's fault...

http://i.imgur.com/1ad9A.gif

http://i.imgur.com/dlN5J.gif

d3c0y55
08-24-2012, 09:26 AM
He hired a buddy, who hired a former buddy, and on and on and on.

That kind of system, while not outwardly dysfunctional in public, is just as prone to FAILURE, especially in a highly-competitive arena like professional sports.

Completely Agree.

BossChief
08-24-2012, 09:27 AM
Cassel's mechanics might be solid now, but they never have been before.

And when the real bullets start flying, then in all likelyhood, like many before him, he will return to his old bad habits.

Everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth

Mike Tyson

Douche Baggins
08-24-2012, 09:29 AM
This is all fucking hilarious considering Matt had two of his best games EVER as a Chief last year with Haley screaming profanities at him during the game.....Minnesota and San Diego...where you could actually legit reason that Cassel was a big part of the team winning....which doesn't fucking happen often because usually we just rush for 200 yards.

the Talking Can
08-24-2012, 09:47 AM
to summarize: Cassel was too exhausted from crying to perform optimally..

HemiEd
08-24-2012, 09:54 AM
I really want to believe that Cassel will have a good year, and the padded room they have developed for him, will lead to ultimate success.

But the bigger body of evidence shows that he lacks the composure, pocket presence, arm strength, and he sucks.

Show me, when the hits are for real please.

Micjones
08-24-2012, 09:56 AM
It wasn't that he guessed wrong, it's that he defaulted to something ultra-conservative.

It wasn't 3rd and like 3, it was 3rd and like 6. And he called a running play.

I'm not suggesting that he'll do that every time. But it will be interesting to see if he does it enough to really stifle the offense.

Okay, he made a bad offensive choice.
It's going to happen from time to time, but again it was one play.

He could've checked out of a 3rd & 15 in the same game.
He didn't. He threw a dart and converted the down.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-24-2012, 09:59 AM
This is dumb.

I know right.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-24-2012, 10:01 AM
I supported Haley.

I still feel that he ha sthe potential to be a very good HC, though I recognize he has to grow up.

I was hoping that he would grow up on the job, but that won't happen now, obviously.

But, if your QB can't stand up to the pressure from your head coach, then how the hell can we expect him to stand up to the pressure of games that really matter?

Do I expect Cassel to fluorish under the softer hand of Crennel in the regular season?

Absolutely, which is why I have said that I expect him to put up pretty good numbers.

But, as I've said numerous times, I also expect him to melt when the pressure to perform is on.

I think with the positive atmosphere around him it will improve his play. I think there's trust there that there wasn't with Haley. But as Parker noted it can go both ways. Hopefully he breaks out and proves everyone wrong and has a great year. I think with the talent around him he's gonna play better than he did in 08 and 10. JMO though.

suds79
08-24-2012, 10:07 AM
Who knows. Some players respond to being challenged. Some respond to a different approach.

Maybe Matt is just of the ladder and things could be better.

I think what is vastly understated in what has helped Matt IMO is the ability to change plays. Matt can't do anything about his physical skill set. It is what it is. But if you allow him to help make plays by making a smart call and getting into a play that could work over something that won't, that could help make up some of the difference.

Cautiously curious to see more in how this develops this year... Still doesn't change that we need to take a QB round 1 next year but I'm optimistic for this year.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2012, 10:16 AM
It wasn't that he guessed wrong, it's that he defaulted to something ultra-conservative.

It wasn't 3rd and like 3, it was 3rd and like 6. And he called a running play.

I'm not suggesting that he'll do that every time. But it will be interesting to see if he does it enough to really stifle the offense.

Bad choice or bad execution on the play?

QBs are always damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they throw to a covered WR that is past the sticks on 3rd and long then "they forced the ball". If they throw short of the sticks and hope for some YAC "they checked down."

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 10:33 AM
Okay, he made a bad offensive choice.
It's going to happen from time to time, but again it was one play.

He could've checked out of a 3rd & 15 in the same game.
He didn't. He threw a dart and converted the down.

He threw short of the marker and his receiver converted the down.

It's eventually going to become an issue.

Rausch
08-24-2012, 10:34 AM
Tons of people there singing Haley's praises...

htismaqe
08-24-2012, 10:34 AM
Bad choice or bad execution on the play?

QBs are always damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they throw to a covered WR that is past the sticks on 3rd and long then "they forced the ball". If they throw short of the sticks and hope for some YAC "they checked down."

Both.

But the problem is that he checked into a play that requires perfect execution in order to just convert.

You have to play the percentages, especially when running an offense like this that is predicated on precious inches.

Douche Baggins
08-24-2012, 10:42 AM
We have run twice on third down in passing situations this preseason.

Neither play resulted in a first down.

However, Charles wasn't carrying the ball on either play.

Also, Charles got hurt on a third and 4 situation last year where we ran the ball. :facepalm:

THAT'S RIGHT, BLAME MATT CASSEL'S SUCKNESS FOR JAMAAL CHARLES GETTING HURT.

bevischief
08-24-2012, 11:04 AM
This is all ****ing hilarious considering Matt had two of his best games EVER as a Chief last year with Haley screaming profanities at him during the game.....Minnesota and San Diego...where you could actually legit reason that Cassel was a big part of the team winning....which doesn't ****ing happen often because usually we just rush for 200 yards.

Every one was having career games against Minnesota last year... It sucked having to watch that crap last year.

whoman69
08-24-2012, 12:49 PM
If Cassel needs his mommy out there to hold his hand, he may not have the temperment to be an NFL QB. I'll take out the may not and replace that with doesn't.

MahiMike
08-24-2012, 01:42 PM
poor Matt...


it's rough...I bet Rothlessraper will be the worst QB in the league now that Haley is hurting his fee fees...

This will definitely be an interesting thing to watch. If Ben does poorly, it'll definitely look bad for Haley. Steelers are the team to beat in the AFC.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Steelers are the team to beat in the AFC.

No. Not even close.

Lightrise
08-24-2012, 02:10 PM
I supported Haley.

I still feel that he ha sthe potential to be a very good HC, though I recognize he has to grow up.

I was hoping that he would grow up on the job, but that won't happen now, obviously.

But, if your QB can't stand up to the pressure from your head coach, then how the hell can we expect him to stand up to the pressure of games that really matter?

Do I expect Cassel to fluorish under the softer hand of Crennel in the regular season?

Absolutely, which is why I have said that I expect him to put up pretty good numbers.

But, as I've said numerous times, I also expect him to melt when the pressure to perform is on.

I see everything you said the same way. I would rather have kept Haley, dumped Cassel and forced Pioli to be the bad guy over the Cassel experiment.

chiefzilla1501
08-24-2012, 03:11 PM
I think with the positive atmosphere around him it will improve his play. I think there's trust there that there wasn't with Haley. But as Parker noted it can go both ways. Hopefully he breaks out and proves everyone wrong and has a great year. I think with the talent around him he's gonna play better than he did in 08 and 10. JMO though.

I never root against the Chiefs. I don't root against our players either, except when the team is so stubborn about proving they're right on a player that they don't look at those guys realistically. Sadly, the only way Matt Cassel doesn't become the starting QB is if he gets injured or he throws more INTs than TDs.

But what's going to happen is Cassel will have a solid year. Because he's an adequate starter who will be asked to do virtually nothing except make a few safe passes. The front office will shout his praises. And the fan base will say that's alright because the team's winning games.

And never in this conversation will it ever come up that if you asked a good QB to do the same exact things Cassel will be asked to do, this team is a contender for a Super Bowl. I'm not even talking Aaron Rodgers elite. I'm talking about even second-tier QBs like Cutler, Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, etc... Those guys put us in the conversation for a Super Bowl. Sadly, we are going to be content if we barely make the playoffs.

TEX
08-24-2012, 05:10 PM
Regarding Cassel's whole career in KC, I do believe that you have to take into account that he had 4 coordinators in 4 years, and one of them was his asshole head coach. I'm sure it made it very hard for him to concentrate and to do the right thing.

Having said that, a QB is supposed to be the toughest mental giant on a team, and at the end of it all, that is where Cassel is weakest. Mechanics are solid, toughness is unquestionable, but mentally he is very "rattle-able" and that makes him weak as a starter.

Perhaps Romeo can foster that confidence and mental toughness that Cassel needs, but it's obviously not something that comes naturally to him. So we'll see. I'm pulling for him of course, but I pull for anyone in a Chiefs uni.

Except Palko. That shit was unbearable.

I agree. And I'd like to also add - except for milkman if he ever wore a Chiefs uni...

O.city
08-24-2012, 05:12 PM
I never root against the Chiefs. I don't root against our players either, except when the team is so stubborn about proving they're right on a player that they don't look at those guys realistically. Sadly, the only way Matt Cassel doesn't become the starting QB is if he gets injured or he throws more INTs than TDs.

But what's going to happen is Cassel will have a solid year. Because he's an adequate starter who will be asked to do virtually nothing except make a few safe passes. The front office will shout his praises. And the fan base will say that's alright because the team's winning games.

And never in this conversation will it ever come up that if you asked a good QB to do the same exact things Cassel will be asked to do, this team is a contender for a Super Bowl. I'm not even talking Aaron Rodgers elite. I'm talking about even second-tier QBs like Cutler, Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, etc... Those guys put us in the conversation for a Super Bowl. Sadly, we are going to be content if we barely make the playoffs.

Sam Bradford, has been shit for two years. His first year, when everyone was stroking him off, wasn't even a good year.


I think he can be good, but at this point he hasn't done anything yet.

Douche Baggins
08-24-2012, 05:31 PM
For a rookie QB, Bradford played well.

Better than Cassel last season for sure.

O.city
08-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Ok, for a rookie he played ok.



Explain last year.

O.city
08-24-2012, 05:33 PM
He averaged 6.0 yards per attempt as a rookie, playing the daunted NFC West 6 times.

Ace Gunner
08-24-2012, 05:37 PM
Ok, for a rookie he played ok.



Explain last year.

second season is often the toughest for QB's, think he was playing hurt last season too.

But you can't deny what he did to the Chiefs last week. Bradford will have a good season, I'm guessing. He looked very smooth to me.

O.city
08-24-2012, 05:40 PM
I think he will be good, but to put him in the second tier of guys just yet is a little premature.

notorious
08-24-2012, 05:52 PM
I hope that all of us are wrong and Matt makes us look like idiots this year.

I can hope in one hand and shit in the other.

JohnnyV13
08-24-2012, 11:06 PM
I hope that all of us are wrong and Matt makes us look like idiots this year.

I can hope in one hand and shit in the other.

I also can hope that Kate Upton will see this post and fall madly in love, becoming my sex slave.

Saccopoo
08-25-2012, 01:05 AM
I also can hope that Kate Upton will see this post and fall madly in love, becoming my sex slave.

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