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Deberg_1990
08-27-2012, 11:19 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/25/3775879/risk-averse-pioli-taking-some.html


Scott Pioli says he has never been inside a casino. No kidding. Forget sitting at a blackjack table or feeling the leather chair in the sports book or the thrill of the roulette wheel.
The one time he was in Las Vegas, to scout UNLV linebacker Ryan Claridge before the 2005 NFL Draft, Pioli didn’t stop and take a peek or toss down a few bucks and see where the evening took him. There was nothing for him there, and the pull that gets so many wasn’t strong enough to lure in Pioli.

“I am risk-averse,” he says.

Heck, there used to be a restaurant Pioli liked when he worked for the New England Patriots. It was attached to a dog track, and in those days, he says, he found an alternate entrance that allowed him to go directly into the restaurant.
“Never gambled in my life,” he says, then jokingly blames it on his upbringing.

Looking at the team he has assembled this year as Chiefs general manager, though, it seems Pioli is breaking tradition. Coach Romeo Crennel, whose career record as a head coach is 26-41; offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, who’s with his third team in as many seasons; quarterback Matt Cassel and running back Peyton Hillis and first-round draft pick Dontari Poe; and yeah, Pioli probably can’t say anymore that he’s never gambled, because it seems he’s going all-in with the 2012 Chiefs.

Then again …
“I don’t see these as gambles or risks,” Pioli says.
Maybe they’re not. We won’t know how they’ll play out for a few months. Or maybe they’re huge gambles that Pioli just doesn’t want to label as such, knowing how that would sound to his boss, Clark Hunt, or the people working for Pioli.

Regardless, Pioli says that where others see risk, he feels comfort. Where others see uncertainty, he sees potential. For someone who’s never entered a casino, he’s got one thing down: No one who makes a bet ever does so thinking he will lose.
________________________________________
The biggest gamble in the locker room is sitting on a chair that seems too small for him, removing tape and pads after the Chiefs’ first preseason game.
This is the trailhead for Dontari Poe, the beginning of the road and a long and uncertain journey for the 11th overall pick in this year’s draft.
“I’m learning,” Poe says.

Which is what coaches want from Poe now. Even difficult lessons, such as the ones he experienced on this night — he was handled easily by the Arizona Cardinals’ offensive linemen — are meant to be good for this 350-pounder whose canvas is mostly blank now, but who the Chiefs believe can, if given time and patience, become a masterpiece.
The same patience will be expected of Poe himself, and that will become a challenge. It already is.

“I am a competitor and I do want to jump out there quickly,” he says. “But they know if I jump out there too fast, before I’m ready, it won’t be too good on my confidence.”

The Chiefs have an interesting project in Poe. He wasn’t particularly impressive at the University of Memphis. His best amateur performance came at the NFL scouting combine, where his seemingly supernatural quickness — he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.9 seconds, compared with a 5.23 that No. 6 overall pick, Packers star and 2011 Pro Bowler B.J. Raji ran three years earlier — made an impression good enough to skyrocket up draft boards.
Reality set in months later, when Chiefs coaches realized that Poe will need time to adjust to the NFL game and the techniques he’ll need to handle professional blockers. He might not crack the starting lineup as a rookie, playing behind Anthony Toribio, and might not even be a significant contributor until the season’s second half.

“We understand that this is going to be a player who’s not going to burst onto the scene,” Pioli says.

That’s not uncommon, even among first-round nose tackles. Vince Wilfork, seen nearly a decade later as the gold standard at his position, played only about half of the Patriots’ defensive snaps his rookie year. Raji started one game as a rookie in 2009 and participated in only 36 percent of the Packers’ snaps. In the two-gap 3-4 defense, even the most-hyped rookies need time to develop. And although Poe might have further to climb than those players, considering his inexperience — he played in 35 college games, compared with Raji’s 51 at Boston College — the Chiefs see a similar upside.

Crennel and Pioli were involved in drafting Wilfork in 2004, and Crennel says one reason Wilfork became a four-time Pro Bowler is because he remained mentally strong throughout a season in which Keith Traylor, of all players, was starting in front of him.
“To his credit,” Crennel says, “he decided that he was going to do everything he could to learn it. He came along and he was a pretty good player as a result of it. His mind-set and his attitude was the thing I think that made the difference for him.”

So far, Poe has demonstrated the right attitude for what’ll be expected of him. He says he’ll continue listening to Crennel and line coach Anthony Pleasant.
“For me to not listen,” Poe says, “would be stupid on my part.”

The organization, coaches and Poe won’t be the only ones who’ll be asked for patience. Fans already understand that sometimes a first-round pick isn’t a sure thing; now they’ll have to see that time is necessary to form an accurate reading of Poe’s future.

Years ago, Crennel was part of a New York Giants staff that drafted defensive lineman Eric Dorsey in the first round. Later, Crennel asked Dorsey how long it took him to simply understand what was being asked of him. Dorsey replied that he couldn’t speak the NFL language until three quarters of his first season was gone.

“Whether it takes that long for Dontari,” Crennel says, “I don’t know.”
That’s asking a lot of fans, who expect an instant impact from a first-rounder. But much like most of what you see inside a casino, that’s just not reality.
________________________________________
The best way to scout a gamble is to consider the loss potential. Can you live without that twenty that’s burning a hole in your pocket? Can you pay your electric bill if this hand goes sideways?

If the worst-case scenario happens for the Chiefs, and Crennel fails and Daboll’s offense doesn’t work and Cassel struggles and Poe never develops, then this team could finish last in the AFC West again. Cassel would likely be given up on, Poe would be given more time amid growing frustration, and Crennel and Daboll would each begin the 2013 season on the hot seat.

But the most pressure, if not the same job-security issues, lay on Pioli’s shoulders. All of these choices were ultimately his, and he says he’s aware of the stakes.

“There’s a lot of people,” he says, “depending on me making the right decisions.”
Pioli was hired in 2009, and he was seen as a miracle worker. He had three Super Bowl rings from his time in New England, had been selected executive of the decade by a magazine, and talked about changing a culture of losing in Kansas City.

Success has come far more slowly than expected, and many of Pioli’s decisions and management methods have been criticized. This is a season in which he needs a sure thing to curb the frustration of two losing seasons in his three years, one failed head coach in Todd Haley, and a quarterback in Cassel who in some circles is one of the most unpopular athletes in town.

That’s not life in the NFL, though, and in the GM’s office, there are always risks to take. Pioli might not like them or even acknowledge them as gambles, but that’s what they are.
“I’ve been right, and I’ve been wrong,” he says. “Just like all of us in life, sometimes we’re right, sometimes we’re wrong. I believe in making the best decision based on the information. I believe in gathering the information.

“When you make those decisions, you definitely feel that you’re right, and then time will tell.”

Despite a few setbacks, Pioli is still playing with house money. But this season could show us a lot about whether Pioli will begin 2013 still in the black, or learn that feeling those of us who have been to casinos know so well: that you just wish you had that last play to do over.

stonedstooge
08-27-2012, 11:27 AM
Never got him into a casino because they couldn't get him out of the titty bar.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Chew on a bag of dicks, Scott.

DaFace
08-27-2012, 11:31 AM
Maybe he should learn that you have to take risks at QB once in a while or you'll be stuck in mediocrity forever.

milkman
08-27-2012, 11:35 AM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.

Pioli never left his comfort zone, and the fact that he didn't, and still hasn't, and likely never will, is the reason the Chiefs will likely never b ethe team that we all hope they can be.

ChiefsCountry
08-27-2012, 11:49 AM
The fat fuck doesn't take risks, yet he is risking his whole career on a worthless fucking backup QB from USC that he found at a pro day and wants to make him look smarter than everybody else. Fuck Pioli and his ego.

Bewbies
08-27-2012, 11:50 AM
No shit, the only risk he's taken was Haley, and even he was connected to the fucking tree...

notorious
08-27-2012, 11:51 AM
When has he taken ONE risk?

Deberg_1990
08-27-2012, 11:51 AM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.



I get what your saying here, that they were safe because he already knew these guys.

But the story is trying to say they were not safe choices because they have had no prior success in their current positions....as a HC and an offensive coodinator.

SDKCCHIEFS
08-27-2012, 12:00 PM
speaking of risks. should we take a look at vince young?

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 12:28 PM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.

Pioli never left his comfort zone, and the fact that he didn't, and still hasn't, and likely never will, is the reason the Chiefs will likely never b ethe team that we all hope they can be.

Yep.

DJ's left nut
08-27-2012, 12:38 PM
I read 4 sentences, remembered that Brady Goddamn Quinn was the competition for his pet quarterback and couldn't read any more.

Fuck you Scott. Fuck you in the face. I hate you more that I ever hated Carl Peterson. You are a worthless dicksmoke that will kill this franchise until you leave it.

Here's a risk you should take: Leaping into a fire. A very large, hot fire that is fueled by AIDS and rape.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 12:43 PM
This must be why Clark hired him.

Don't wanna waste the Hunt fortune.

That's earmarked for soccer...

TEX
08-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Cassel is more of a risk than Poe. We know Cassel can't play.

TEX
08-27-2012, 12:48 PM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.

Pioli never left his comfort zone, and the fact that he didn't, and still hasn't, and likely never will, is the reason the Chiefs will likely never b ethe team that we all hope they can be.

I get your point - but the article was saying that they were risks because they haven't won anything in thier rolls now.

-King-
08-27-2012, 12:59 PM
Fuck pioli. Fuck having the most talented team we've had in decades. Rabble rabble rabble!
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
08-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 01:27 PM
**** pioli. **** having the most talented team we've had in decades. Rabble rabble rabble!
Posted via Mobile Device

Talent on paper is just that...

qabbaan
08-27-2012, 01:29 PM
Fuck pioli. Fuck having the most talented team we've had in decades. Rabble rabble rabble!
Posted via Mobile Device

We've got a pretty nice sports car with Cassel the Menace driving it.

lcarus
08-27-2012, 01:32 PM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.

Pioli never left his comfort zone, and the fact that he didn't, and still hasn't, and likely never will, is the reason the Chiefs will likely never b ethe team that we all hope they can be.

By hiring Crennel and DaBoll, he's risking that I don't come down to One Arrowhead Drive with a flamethrower.

-King-
08-27-2012, 01:50 PM
We've got a pretty nice sports car with Cassel the Menace driving it.

Doesn't change what I said.
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
08-27-2012, 02:10 PM
Talent on paper is just that...

That's the GMs job. Get the most talent on the roster as possible and few can deny that Pioli has done that. He screwed up the Cassel trade, but that in itself was a big risk.
Posted via Mobile Device

notorious
08-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Talent on paper is just that...

This.


I will believe it when I see it.

BoneKrusher
08-27-2012, 02:45 PM
This.


I will believe it when I see it.

yeah, it sure wasn't on the field last Friday night.

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 02:57 PM
That's the GMs job. Get the most talent on the roster as possible and few can deny that Pioli has done that. He screwed up the Cassel trade, but that in itself was a big risk.
Posted via Mobile Device

And what objective measure do you have of that?

Lots of people say this team is loaded with talent but the results on the field suggest otherwise...

B_Ambuehl
08-27-2012, 02:58 PM
That's the GMs job. Get the most talent on the roster as possible and few can deny that Pioli has done that. He screwed up the Cassel trade, but that in itself was a big risk.
Posted via Mobile Device

Except he didn't get even half of that talent on the roster. But, like he did in New England, he's getting credit for it. Albert, Bowe, Charles, Dorsey, DJ, Hali, Flowers, and Carr (who Pioli mismanaged) aren't his doing. He did get Berry but you'd expect after 4 drafts he'd be able to get at least one impact player. It'll be interesting to see if Pioli goes down with Cassell or comes up with a bunch of excuses for sticking with him for 4 years.

It's funny how much Cassell and Pioli have in common. Both of them have become rich on reputation and who they were associated with, rather than substance.

-King-
08-27-2012, 03:06 PM
Except he didn't get even half of that talent on the roster. But, like he did in New England, he's getting credit for it. Albert, Bowe, Charles, Dorsey, DJ, Hali, Flowers, and Carr (who Pioli mismanaged) aren't his doing. He did get Berry but you'd expect after 4 drafts he'd be able to get at least one impact player. It'll be interesting to see if Pioli goes down with Cassell or comes up with a bunch of excuses for sticking with him for 4 years.

It's funny how much Cassell and Pioli have in common. Both of them have become rich on reputation and who they were associated with, rather than substance.

Asomoah
Lilja
Winston
Hillis
Breaston
Baldwin
Berry
Routt
Belcher
Houston
Jackson
Lewis
McCluster
Moeaki
Boss
Hudson


All key contributors to this team. All impact players. To say Pioli hasn't done anything is idiotic. This team was one of the least talented teams in the NFL when Pioli came. And now people are saying that the Chiefs have one of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL.

DTLB58
08-27-2012, 03:19 PM
Maybe he should learn that you have to take risks at QB once in a while or you'll be stuck in mediocrity forever.

Yep. The risk he is taking is surrounding all this talent with a High School QB.

MahiMike
08-27-2012, 03:21 PM
huh? Seattle starts a rookie QB over a free agent they just gave $10M to and this writer thinks Pioli has balls?

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 03:26 PM
Asomoah
Lilja
Winston
Hillis
Breaston
Baldwin
Berry
Routt
Belcher
Houston
Jackson
Lewis
McCluster
Moeaki
Boss
Hudson


All key contributors to this team. All impact players. To say Pioli hasn't done anything is idiotic. This team was one of the least talented teams in the NFL when Pioli came. And now people are saying that the Chiefs have one of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL.

Outside of Eric Berry, the bonafide STARS on this team - Flowers, Hali, DJ, Charles, and Bowe - were here when Pioli got here.

Pioli has proven that he's good at rounding out a team. He can get the "mortar". But when it comes to laying the actual "bricks", he's been nothing short of awful.

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 03:27 PM
"One of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL" should be good for more than having 2 losing seasons out of 3 and no playoff wins.

Even Carl Peterson did better than that.

DTLB58
08-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Asomoah
Lilja
Winston
Hillis
Breaston
Baldwin
Berry
Routt
Belcher
Houston
Jackson
Lewis
McCluster
Moeaki
Boss
Hudson


All key contributors to this team. All impact players. To say Pioli hasn't done anything is idiotic. This team was one of the least talented teams in the NFL when Pioli came. And now people are saying that the Chiefs have one of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL.

-Routt will suck ass on this D write it down.
-Moeaki made his name with one (1) freaking catch against the Niners.
-I would have drafted Belcher's replacement this season instead of Poe.
-If McCluster produces in Daboll's offense like he has in the Pre-season he may be worth it, if not, that 2nd rd pick was wasted.

Just my 2 cents.

milkman
08-27-2012, 03:50 PM
That's the GMs job. Get the most talent on the roster as possible and few can deny that Pioli has done that. He screwed up the Cassel trade, but that in itself was a big risk.
Posted via Mobile Device

Trading for Cassel was the safe route.

He knew Cassel better than any QB he could have drafted, and he had "produced" in the NFL.

He didn't want take the risk of selecting a QB in the draft.
That had more potential bust factor than bringing in the guy that he was already familiar and comfortable with.

The big problem, as close as he was to the situation, he still didn't see how much Josh McDumbass did to hide Cassel's limitations, and the guys since, not even Charlie Weis, have been able to hide them nearly as well, due in large part to the fact that the Chiefs did not have the talent surrounding that the Patriots did.

-King-
08-27-2012, 04:01 PM
"One of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL" should be good for more than having 2 losing seasons out of 3 and no playoff wins.

Even Carl Peterson did better than that.

We're talking about this season.

Bewbies
08-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Outside of Eric Berry, the bonafide STARS on this team - Flowers, Hali, DJ, Charles, and Bowe - were here when Pioli got here.

Pioli has proven that he's good at rounding out a team. He can get the "mortar". But when it comes to laying the actual "bricks", he's been nothing short of awful.

This is a good way to put it. Good at the mortar, terrible at the bricks.

WhiteWhale
08-27-2012, 04:22 PM
Wow.

Gambling and taking risks are NOT the same.

When you gamble, the odds favor the house. When you take a risk, the odds favor you, but there's a pretty big chance of failure.

Being risk averse is cowardly. Not being a gambler is just smart.

WhiteWhale
08-27-2012, 04:23 PM
Outside of Eric Berry, the bonafide STARS on this team - Flowers, Hali, DJ, Charles, and Bowe - were here when Pioli got here.

Pioli has proven that he's good at rounding out a team. He can get the "mortar". But when it comes to laying the actual "bricks", he's been nothing short of awful.

I really like this analogy.

htismaqe
08-27-2012, 04:52 PM
We're talking about this season.

Considering that this season hasn't happened yet, the ONLY things you can draw upon to suggest that he's built a "talented" team are

1) past seasons or
2) this pre-season

So far, there's absolutely nothing to suggest he's built a super-talented team.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-27-2012, 04:56 PM
Translated: I'm going to play it safe and make Clark a lot of money and stick around for 20 years just like Carl.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2012, 04:56 PM
And what objective measure do you have of that?

Lots of people say this team is loaded with talent but the results on the field suggest otherwise...

Outside of Eric Berry, the bonafide STARS on this team - Flowers, Hali, DJ, Charles, and Bowe - were here when Pioli got here.

Pioli has proven that he's good at rounding out a team. He can get the "mortar". But when it comes to laying the actual "bricks", he's been nothing short of awful.

"One of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL" should be good for more than having 2 losing seasons out of 3 and no playoff wins.

Even Carl Peterson did better than that.

Considering that this season hasn't happened yet, the ONLY things you can draw upon to suggest that he's built a "talented" team are

1) past seasons or
2) this pre-season

So far, there's absolutely nothing to suggest he's built a super-talented team.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/clap%20clap%20clap/grand/00982873_clap_gif.gif

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2012, 05:12 PM
Wow, this thread is filled with new information.

:rolleyes:

O.city
08-27-2012, 05:46 PM
So question.


If the stars were already here, what was Pioli supposed to do about that? Trade away Carl's stars so he could bring in his own?


How many legit stars does each team in the NFL have?

chiefzilla1501
08-27-2012, 06:42 PM
-Routt will suck ass on this D write it down.
-Moeaki made his name with one (1) freaking catch against the Niners.
-I would have drafted Belcher's replacement this season instead of Poe.
-If McCluster produces in Daboll's offense like he has in the Pre-season he may be worth it, if not, that 2nd rd pick was wasted.

Just my 2 cents.

I am not by any means a pioli fan. But you're wrong on most of these points.

jspchief
08-27-2012, 08:45 PM
The idea that hiring Crennel and DaBoll were risks is laughable.

Those are the safe choices.

Pioli never left his comfort zone, and the fact that he didn't, and still hasn't, and likely never will, is the reason the Chiefs will likely never b ethe team that we all hope they can be. /thread

notorious
08-27-2012, 08:47 PM
"One of the best 2-53 rosters in the NFL" should be good for more than having 2 losing seasons out of 3 and no playoff wins.

Even Carl Peterson did better than that.

We are not as good as nearly everyone on CP thinks we are.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-27-2012, 08:53 PM
We are not as good as nearly everyone on CP thinks we are.
How good does everyone on CP think we are? I think we're average at best.

notorious
08-27-2012, 08:55 PM
How good does everyone on CP think we are? I think we're average at best.

Nearly everyone.


Some people on here (and in real life) think that we would be Super Bowl favorites with a competent QB.

jspchief
08-27-2012, 08:58 PM
So question.


If the stars were already here, what was Pioli supposed to do about that? Trade away Carl's stars so he could bring in his own?


How many legit stars does each team in the NFL have?Of course not. That's ridiculous.

But the fact remains there is a segment of fans that go on about the team that Pioli has built. Pointing out that he wasn't the source of most of the stars is just a counterpoint to the idea that he's responsible for this team's talent.

The reality is, Pioli knocked one out of the park on Eric Berry. After that, it's a lot of guys getting by mostly on fan hype.

People were talking about the addition of Winston putting us in the discussion for best Oline in the league, but in truth Asamoah is getting by on the hype of his rookie season and Hudson is 95% unknown. That's just one example of how people are prematurely inflating the value of Chiefs players.

Pioli has rounded out a really bad roster with a bunch of starter quality guys. But "starter quality" just means they are good enough to start. It doesn't mean they are exceptional NFL players. There just isn't enough evidence to support the notion that Pioli has brought in a bunch of exceptional players.

jspchief
08-27-2012, 08:59 PM
How good does everyone on CP think we are? I think we're average at best. "Most talented team in a long time" is a quote you'll see thrown around a lot.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Nearly everyone.


Some people on here (and in real life) think that we would be Super Bowl favorites with a competent QB.

"Most talented team in a long time" is a quote you'll see thrown around a lot.
Eh, I see both those statements fairly often but I still don't think they're a majority. At least I hope they're not.

notorious
08-27-2012, 09:39 PM
Eh, I see both those statements fairly often but I still don't think they're a majority. At least I hope they're not.

I over-stated. CP does that to me sometimes.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-27-2012, 09:47 PM
I over-stated. CP does that to me sometimes.
I don't know, you could be right. I'd start a poll but I'm tired and lacking ambition at the moment.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2012, 09:49 PM
"Most talented team in a long time" is a quote you'll see thrown around a lot.

I think it's pretty hard to argue that it's not the most talented team the Chiefs have fielded in a long time. But it really doesn't matter when Matt Cassel is your quarterback, because he will find a way to lose games the Chiefs should win.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 09:56 PM
How good does everyone on CP think we are? I think we're average at best.

Matt Cassel makes them average.

Do you think this is a SB team with a legit QB?

mcaj22
08-27-2012, 09:56 PM
So question.


If the stars were already here, what was Pioli supposed to do about that? Trade away Carl's stars so he could bring in his own?


How many legit stars does each team in the NFL have?

I think we are on the bottom end in terms of core "star" players. You have to put the homerism aside though to see that.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2012, 09:57 PM
Matt Cassel makes them average.

Do you think this is a SB team with a legit QB?

Why wouldn't it be? If the Chiefs had Brady or Eli or Rodgers or Stafford or even Cutler, this team would be a Super Bowl favorite.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 09:59 PM
Some people on here (and in real life) think that we would be Super Bowl favorites with a competent QB.

Well, who do you consider competent?

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:00 PM
Why wouldn't it be? If the Chiefs had Brady or Eli or Rodgers or Stafford or even Cutler, this team would be a Super Bowl favorite.

I agree. This team is a solid QB away. That's it.

Some think you need to be loaded with talent.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-27-2012, 10:01 PM
Matt Cassel makes them average.

Do you think this is a SB team with a legit QB?
I'm not sold on the defense. If they play consistently well this year then I think the argument could be made. But at this point, no.

notorious
08-27-2012, 10:03 PM
Well, who do you consider competent?


According to CP, nearly every QB that isn't on our current roster.


I kid, I kid.

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2012, 10:04 PM
According to CP, nearly every QB that isn't on our current roster.


I kid, I kid.
I wouldn't want hanie
Posted via Mobile Device

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:04 PM
Most SB winning teams now typically only have few star players.

notorious
08-27-2012, 10:05 PM
If we could get someone that can hit a receiver in stride from 10 yards we would find out how much talent this team has. Something that simple would tell us a LOT.

Cassel is so horrible that it's impossible to gauge.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm not sold on the defense. If they play consistently well this year then I think the argument could be made. But at this point, no.

Eh. The Pats lousy D made it to the SB.

A good D is overrated in this era.

Look at Baltimore. Good D every season. What has it gotten them?

BryanBusby
08-27-2012, 10:08 PM
Eh. The Pats lousy D made it to the SB.

and both times they've made it with a lousy D, they lost to team that had a good one.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:11 PM
and both times they've made it with a lousy D, they lost to team that had a good one.

Doesn't matter. They were close games.

You'd have an argument if the Giants rolled them.

BryanBusby
08-27-2012, 10:15 PM
It doesn't matter how close it was, they still lost.

You seem to be holding the Patriots up as some kind of standard, like you should be able to pluck a future first ballot Hall of Famer out of the draft with a good success rate.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:32 PM
It doesn't matter how close it was, they still lost.

You seem to be holding the Patriots up as some kind of standard, like you should be able to pluck a future first ballot Hall of Famer out of the draft with a good success rate.

The Giants won because of Eli, not their D.

As I have already mentioned, what has Baltimore's good D gotten them?

Their SB win was in a different era.

I'll give you the Colts. Their D was very good once the post season rolled around when they won it.

BryanBusby
08-27-2012, 10:39 PM
The Giants got there in the first place because of the Defense and you're dumb if you think that Super Bowl win had little or nothing to do with the Defense.

-King-
08-27-2012, 10:44 PM
The Giants got there in the first place because of the Defense and you're dumb if you think that Super Bowl win had little or nothing to do with the Defense.

Pssst...the Giants were 25th in points allowed.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 10:45 PM
The Giants got there in the first place because of the Defense and you're dumb if you think that Super Bowl win had little or nothing to do with the Defense.

I'm saying this isn't 20 yrs ago. Or 15 yrs ago.

Defense isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

An elite QB that can chuck it downfield and score, is.

The old adage of "Defense wins Championships" no longer applies.

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Pssst...the Giants were 25th in points allowed.

Don't go using facts now.
Posted via Mobile Device

BryanBusby
08-27-2012, 10:48 PM
Pssst...the Giants were 25th in points allowed.
The Giants constantly under achieve during the regular season.

I'm saying this isn't 20 yrs ago. Or 15 yrs ago.

Defense isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

An elite QB that can chuck it downfield and score, is.

The old adage of "Defense wins Championships" no longer applies.
Except that it does and it took something that resembled Defense for teams like the Colts, Packers and Saints to actually win one.

Chocolate Hog
08-27-2012, 10:48 PM
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn99/dademo88/mj-laughing.gif

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 11:00 PM
The Giants constantly under achieve during the regular season.


Except that it does and it took something that resembled Defense for teams like the Colts, Packers and Saints to actually win one.

Which would you rather have?

An elite QB, or a top 5 D?

milkman
08-27-2012, 11:05 PM
Pssst...the Giants were 25th in points allowed.

The Giants struggled through injuries during the season, but got healthy in the late stages of the season, through the playoffs.

They won because they had a defense that was playing at it's peak.

Two elite QBs battling for each team.

The difference was defense.

milkman
08-27-2012, 11:07 PM
Which would you rather have?

An elite QB, or a top 5 D?

If you can give me a 10 10 D, and a top 10 QB, I'll take my chances against any team in the league.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 11:12 PM
The Giants struggled through injuries during the season, but got healthy in the late stages of the season, through the playoffs.

They won because they had a defense that was playing at it's peak.

Two elite QBs battling for each team.

The difference was defense.

The main difference was NY was able to run the ball.

Not a big difference in offensive stats.

milkman
08-27-2012, 11:20 PM
The main difference was NY was able to run the ball.

Not a big difference in offensive stats.

The Patriots were one of the top 2 or 3 offenses in the league.

The Giants were able to keep that offense in check.

The fact that they were able to do that was the difference.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 11:58 PM
The Patriots were one of the top 2 or 3 offenses in the league.

The Giants were able to keep that offense in check.

The fact that they were able to do that was the difference.

While this is true, my point is still valid.

You just do not need a top D to win.

You do need a top QB, however.

mcaj22
08-28-2012, 12:06 AM
lol what

the top 4 defenses were in the playoffs last year and were all proven winners.

some of them were a dropped catch or a muffed punt away from advancing. By playing good defense, losing to "elite" QBs by a small margin

New World Order
08-28-2012, 12:10 AM
Which would you rather have?

An elite QB, or a top 5 D?



Now, an elite qb, 10 years ago a top 5 D.

But it really doesn't matter, we dont have either. We have no defensive line and no second corner.

mcaj22
08-28-2012, 12:15 AM
Houston, Baltimore, San Fran, Cincy, Pittsburgh were all top 10 defenses last year and were all tough competition in the regular season as well as took their games down to the wire in the playoffs except for the young inexperience Cincy who were just out manned.

Houston rode a fucking FIFTH ROUND ROOKIE QB INTO THE PLAYOFFS ON THEIR DEFENSE'S BACK. A FIFTH ROUND PICK. And they almost made it to the AFC Championship. And we cant do shit with Matt Cassel.

New World Order
08-28-2012, 12:18 AM
Houston, Baltimore, San Fran, Cincy, Pittsburgh were all top 10 defenses last year and were all tough competition in the regular season as well as took their games down to the wire in the playoffs except for the young inexperience Cincy who were just out manned.

Houston rode a ****ing FIFTH ROUND ROOKIE QB INTO THE PLAYOFFS ON THEIR DEFENSE'S BACK. A FIFTH ROUND PICK. And they almost made it to the AFC Championship. And we cant do shit with Matt Cassel.



With Matt Cassel it doesn't matter what kind of d we have, we are doomed for mediocrity at best with him as our starting qb. Baltimore has always had a good d for the last 10 years just never a capable qb, and now they have one (Well somewhat, its debatable)

mcaj22
08-28-2012, 12:21 AM
i get that Baltimore has a good D and a whatever QB and cant get over the hump

but at least their team is consistent and in front of the hump. They can get to the fucking hump. Winning seasons every year and a playoff lock. I just want to see the Chiefs fucking win. Not wonder if we will sneak 10-6 or 9-7 one year and then 5-10 the next. It would be nice to have a QB or Defense that can get us 11 or 12 wins every year and then wonder how we can stack up in the playoffs

New World Order
08-28-2012, 12:35 AM
i get that Baltimore has a good D and a whatever QB and cant get over the hump

but at least their team is consistent and in front of the hump. They can get to the ****ing hump. Winning seasons every year and a playoff lock. I just want to see the Chiefs ****ing win. Not wonder if we will sneak 10-6 or 9-7 one year and then 5-10 the next. It would be nice to have a QB or Defense that can get us 11 or 12 wins every year and then wonder how we can stack up in the playoffs


Well a solid qb did get them over the hump. They were 1 catch away from the SB. Same can be said for us if we had a solid qb (Which isn't really an easy thing to do especially after investing so much in $hithed)

BigMeatballDave
08-28-2012, 01:31 AM
lol what

the top 4 defenses were in the playoffs last year and were all proven winners.

some of them were a dropped catch or a muffed punt away from advancing. By playing good defense, losing to "elite" QBs by a small margin

Lol all you want.

You aren't winning shit without a legit QB. I don't care how good your D is.

I never said D doesn't matter. I said its not as important as the QB.

New World Order
08-28-2012, 03:10 AM
Lol all you want.

You aren't winning shit without a legit QB. I don't care how good your D is.

I never said D doesn't matter. I said its not as important as the QB.



Exactly, can anyone give me a team in the last 8 years that won the sb without a capable qb?

BryanBusby
08-28-2012, 03:29 AM
Lol all you want.

You aren't winning shit without a legit QB. I don't care how good your D is.

I never said D doesn't matter. I said its not as important as the QB.

Eh. The Pats lousy D made it to the SB.

A good D is overrated in this era.

Look at Baltimore. Good D every season. What has it gotten them?

k

Basically, you need both. Why would I pick in between a top 5 D or an elite QB, when you need good play on both sides of the ball to pull it off?

In short, you're a fucking moron.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 05:46 AM
Of course not. That's ridiculous.

But the fact remains there is a segment of fans that go on about the team that Pioli has built. Pointing out that he wasn't the source of most of the stars is just a counterpoint to the idea that he's responsible for this team's talent.

The reality is, Pioli knocked one out of the park on Eric Berry. After that, it's a lot of guys getting by mostly on fan hype.

People were talking about the addition of Winston putting us in the discussion for best Oline in the league, but in truth Asamoah is getting by on the hype of his rookie season and Hudson is 95% unknown. That's just one example of how people are prematurely inflating the value of Chiefs players.

Pioli has rounded out a really bad roster with a bunch of starter quality guys. But "starter quality" just means they are good enough to start. It doesn't mean they are exceptional NFL players. There just isn't enough evidence to support the notion that Pioli has brought in a bunch of exceptional players.

:clap:

BigMeatballDave
08-28-2012, 06:29 AM
k

Basically, you need both. Why would I pick in between a top 5 D or an elite QB, when you need good play on both sides of the ball to pull it off?

In short, you're a fucking moron.

LMAO Okay.

Show me all the teams with good defenses and no legit QBs who've won SBs the last 12 yrs.

BigMeatballDave
08-28-2012, 06:31 AM
I said a good D is overrated.

I'm talking Ravens type D.

O.city
08-28-2012, 06:54 AM
I think we are on the bottom end in terms of core "star" players. You have to put the homerism aside though to see that.

So how many stars do you need?



Look at some of the better teams around the league. They aren't all full of star guys.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 06:55 AM
So how many stars do you need?



Look at some of the better teams around the league. They aren't all full of star guys.

No team in the league is chock full of stars anymore. The SUCCESSFUL teams make sure they have a star at QB, though.

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2012, 06:56 AM
Poe was a gamble.

Geez, Romeo and daboll weren't gambles. They were hires made because of the safety and convenience of the tree. The sad part is, when pioli has looked beyond the tree for players and coaches, he has generally done very well.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 07:00 AM
Poe was a gamble.

Geez, Romeo and daboll weren't gambles. They were hires made because of the safety and convenience of the tree. The sad part is, when pioli has looked beyond the tree for players and coaches, he has generally done very well.

When has he ever looked beyond the tree?

KCinNY
08-28-2012, 07:43 AM
It's true that non-elite QBs got close last year but it really doesn't matter 'cause our D is a far cry from the Ds in Baltimore, Pitt or SF.

Furthermore, having Cassel under center gives us 0% chance of even getting a sniff of a SB.

BigMeatballDave
08-28-2012, 08:07 AM
It's true that non-elite QBs got close last year but it really doesn't matter 'cause our D is a far cry from the Ds in Baltimore, Pitt or SF.

Furthermore, having Cassel under center gives us 0% chance of even getting a sniff of a SB.

And none of those defenses were IN the SB.

It was widely accepted that NE's D was not good, or even bad, last season.

Based on last season, the Chiefs D was plenty good enough to win.

Bewbies
08-28-2012, 08:10 AM
What team could you put Aaron Rodgers on that wouldn't be in the hunt for the Super Bowl?

Now give KC the 2000 Ravens defense, do we even make the Super Bowl? Do we win a playoff game?

milkman
08-28-2012, 08:11 AM
And none of those defenses were IN the SB.

It was widely accepted that NE's D was not good, or even bad, last season.

Based on last season, the Chiefs D was plenty good enough to win.

Here's the deal.

There is absolutely no question that you can't win without a QB.

I've been banging that drum for years.

But in the last ten years, when two teams with franchise QBs meet in the SB, the team with the best defense has won.

BigMeatballDave
08-28-2012, 08:26 AM
But in the last ten years, when two teams with franchise QBs meet in the SB, the team with the best defense has won.

Fair enough, but I'm not really arguing that.

The notion that an elite D is needed to win a SB is overrated.