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3rd&48ers
08-27-2012, 04:57 PM
Teenagers who regularly smoke cannabis are putting themselves at risk of permanently damaging their intelligence, according to a landmark study.


Researchers found persistent users of the drug, who started smoking it at school, had lower IQ scores as adults.
They were also significantly more likely to have attention and memory problems in later life, than their peers who abstained.
Furthermore, those who started as teenagers and used it heavily, but quit as adults, did not regain their full mental powers, found academics at Kingís College London and Duke University in the US.
They looked at data from over 1,000 people from Dunedin in New Zealand, who have been followed through their lives since being born in 1972 or 1973.
Participants were asked about cannabis usage when they were 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38. Their IQ was tested at 13 and 38. In addition, each nominated a close friend or family member, who was asked about attention and memory problems.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9426205/Cannabis-smoking-permanently-lowers-IQ.html

Donger
08-27-2012, 04:59 PM
Dope: the "harmless" drug.

Bugeater
08-27-2012, 05:06 PM
Hah, what a joke, there's no fucking way it has any effect on...ummm....uhhhh....whoa dude, what was I talking about?

Inmem58
08-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Bump comes in 5.........4.......3.......2.......1.......

DaFace
08-27-2012, 05:08 PM
As far as I know, that's not new news. I've always heard that it can have negative effects on teens since their brains are still developing, but that those effects aren't seen among adults.

Shogun
08-27-2012, 05:09 PM
in b4 simplicity

Gonzo
08-27-2012, 05:10 PM
tl;dr cuz I got high.

BigRedChief
08-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Just how smart would I be if I hadn't burned trees for 10 years?

saphojunkie
08-27-2012, 05:11 PM
Dope: the "harmless" drug.

The excerpt posted in original thread is misleading.

"However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back."

Furthermore, this ONLY happened when people began smoking as an adolescent, and smoked "persistently." Define that, you ask? Okay...

"Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week."

This did not happen to people who started smoking as adults. Shocker. You mean stuff can mess with a growing child that doesn't have an affect on a full-grown adult?!

Also, the IQ drop happens at age 38. Not age 18, despite proclaiming that this study is important, because "Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a personís access to a college education..."

Tons of 38 year olds are trying to get into Northwestern, apparently.

In addition, it's a misleading thread title, as even the study admitted it's not permanent:

However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back.

To sum up:

- Have to smoke A LOT
- Have to smoke for 20 years
- Not permanent
- Reduced IQ by 8 points.
- Takes 20 years to reduce it.
- Prevents 38 year olds from getting into good school.


I don't even smoke pot. I just have an aversion to misleading "studies."

SPchief
08-27-2012, 05:11 PM
Legalize it! It does no harm!

Shogun
08-27-2012, 05:12 PM
you can get so high you cheat on your wife. but you'll never get so high you tell her. weed only let's you forget the unimportant shit folks. ROFL

LiveSteam
08-27-2012, 05:13 PM
Top gnikoms evol I

-King-
08-27-2012, 05:13 PM
The article could be about soda pop and it would pretty much be the same thing.

Persistent drinkers of soft drinks, who started drinking at school, had higher blood pressure as adults.

They were also significantly more likely to have bone, and obesity problems in later life, than their peers who abstained.

Stupid article.

stevieray
08-27-2012, 05:14 PM
...bet they don't forget the munchies!

Canofbier
08-27-2012, 05:14 PM
I was sort of expecting this to be based on some lame survey, but after a shallow analysis, this actually sounds like it came from a legitimate longitudinal study. That's a pretty significant IQ decrease, too.

I suspect that those who smoked weed heavily during their schooling years would have taken their studies less seriously on average, meaning that their brains weren't being challenged and developed to the same extent as the control group. Any other ideas on what could be a confounding variable here?

Rain Man
08-27-2012, 05:15 PM
There was a commercial on late-night television here in Denver this weekend advertising 25 percent off normal prices at a "medical marijuana" store if you presented a student ID. Meanwhile, the city council had to ban "sign spinners" standing on the street advertising "medical marijuana". The complete lack of ethics and principles in that industry is really disappointing, and they're only damaging themselves in the long run.

Donger
08-27-2012, 05:16 PM
The excerpt posted in original thread is misleading.

"However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back."

Furthermore, this ONLY happened when people began smoking as an adolescent, and smoked "persistently." Define that, you ask? Okay...

"Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week."

This did not happen to people who started smoking as adults. Shocker. You mean stuff can mess with a growing child that doesn't have an affect on a full-grown adult?!

Also, the IQ drop happens at age 38. Not age 18, despite proclaiming that this study is important, because "Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a personís access to a college education..."

Tons of 38 year olds are trying to get into Northwestern, apparently.

To sum up:

- Have to smoke A LOT
- Have to smoke for 20 years
- Not permanent - see part about quitting a year before IQ test - regain lost points. Misleading Thread Title!
- Reduced IQ by 8 points.
- Takes 20 years to reduce it.
- Prevents 38 year olds from getting into good school.


I don't even smoke pot. I just have an aversion to misleading "studies."

I didn't write the thread title. I wrote that it is a harmless drug.

saphojunkie
08-27-2012, 05:18 PM
I didn't write the thread title. I wrote that it is a harmless drug.

You added quotations. I just wanted to clear up that the "harm" alleged by this study was misleading.


Honestly I forgot I had even "quoted" you. I was more responding to the article.

Donger
08-27-2012, 05:20 PM
You added quotations. I just wanted to clear up that the "harm" alleged by this study was misleading.


Honestly I forgot I had even "quoted" you. I was more responding to the article.

Would you call pot a harmless drug?

Munson
08-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Pot heads are dumbasses?

I'm shocked! :eek:

Canofbier
08-27-2012, 05:22 PM
The excerpt posted in original thread is misleading.

"However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back."

Furthermore, this ONLY happened when people began smoking as an adolescent, and smoked "persistently." Define that, you ask? Okay...

"Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week."

This did not happen to people who started smoking as adults. Shocker. You mean stuff can mess with a growing child that doesn't have an affect on a full-grown adult?!

Also, the IQ drop happens at age 38. Not age 18, despite proclaiming that this study is important, because "Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a personís access to a college education..."

Tons of 38 year olds are trying to get into Northwestern, apparently.

In addition, it's a misleading thread title, as even the study admitted it's not permanent:

However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back.

To sum up:

- Have to smoke A LOT
- Have to smoke for 20 years
- Not permanent
- Reduced IQ by 8 points.
- Takes 20 years to reduce it.
- Prevents 38 year olds from getting into good school.


I don't even smoke pot. I just have an aversion to misleading "studies."

Keep in mind that this information isn't from some kind of pot-killing study. Longitudinal studies are done to gather information on practically everything, and this observation is one of thousands that they've made. That doesn't mean that it's not being misinterpreted (or that there isn't some kind of confounding variable), but the study itself is probably legitimate.

BigRedChief
08-27-2012, 05:26 PM
The excerpt posted in original thread is misleading.

"However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back."

Furthermore, this ONLY happened when people began smoking as an adolescent, and smoked "persistently." Define that, you ask? Okay...

"Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week."

This did not happen to people who started smoking as adults. Shocker. You mean stuff can mess with a growing child that doesn't have an affect on a full-grown adult?!

Also, the IQ drop happens at age 38. Not age 18, despite proclaiming that this study is important, because "Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a personís access to a college education..."

Tons of 38 year olds are trying to get into Northwestern, apparently.

In addition, it's a misleading thread title, as even the study admitted it's not permanent:

However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back.

To sum up:

- Have to smoke A LOT
- Have to smoke for 20 years
- Not permanent
- Reduced IQ by 8 points.
- Takes 20 years to reduce it.
- Prevents 38 year olds from getting into good school.


I don't even smoke pot. I just have an aversion to misleading "studies."I'll just call BS on all the imperical data. I can then claim I'm a idiot now because I smoked pot as a teenager. :harumph:

Fish
08-27-2012, 05:30 PM
I smoked too much pot as a teen. Where is my disability check?

KCUnited
08-27-2012, 05:31 PM
Invest EVERYTHING in Gold and Silver!!1!

Hydrae
08-27-2012, 05:33 PM
That is scary. I was 18 when I started smoking and have been a nearly daily smoker ever since. Today I turn 52 so that is 33-34 years with more days stoned than not.

Oh, BTW, I am going to college and carrying a 3.85 GPA with 6 classes left to graduation with a BSIT. I must have been uber smart all those years ago.

Discuss Thrower
08-27-2012, 05:34 PM
Weed lowers IQ yet alcohol causes numerous variants of cancer, impairs users' decision making, ruins families and kills people in auto accidents on a routine basis.

Marijuana is clearly the biggest problem here, no question.

Fish
08-27-2012, 05:36 PM
That is scary. I was 18 when I started smoking and have been a nearly daily smoker ever since. Today I turn 52 so that is 33-34 years with more days stoned than not.

Oh, BTW, I am going to college and carrying a 3.85 GPA with 6 classes left to graduation with a BSIT. I must have been uber smart all those years ago.

Well yeah, but it took you 34 years to graduate college. So...... about that.. :D

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
08-27-2012, 05:36 PM
That is scary. I was 18 when I started smoking and have been a nearly daily smoker ever since. Today I turn 52 so that is 33-34 years with more days stoned than not.

Oh, BTW, I am going to college and carrying a 3.85 GPA with 6 classes left to graduation with a BSIT. I must have been uber smart all those years ago.

Well, damn man, it must have affected you some. I mean, it's taken you 35 years to graduate college . . . .o:-)

CoMoChief
08-27-2012, 05:36 PM
better ban milk, cheese and other dairy products because it can lead to clogged arteries.

Buck
08-27-2012, 05:40 PM
Where can I get some of that Dunedin, NZ weed? Sounds bomb.

the Talking Can
08-27-2012, 05:40 PM
weed is the reason so many people die in drunk driving accidents...

Bearcat
08-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Just how smart would I be if I hadn't burned trees for 10 years?

You might know the difference between your and you're?

We'll never know.

3rd&48ers
08-27-2012, 05:47 PM
I knew this would start a shit storm, thats why I posted it

mikey23545
08-27-2012, 05:50 PM
The article could be about soda pop and it would pretty much be the same thing.



Stupid article.

That is scary. I was 18 when I started smoking and have been a nearly daily smoker ever since. Today I turn 52 so that is 33-34 years with more days stoned than not.

Oh, BTW, I am going to college and carrying a 3.85 GPA with 6 classes left to graduation with a BSIT. I must have been uber smart all those years ago.

Weed lowers IQ yet alcohol causes numerous variants of cancer, impairs users' decision making, ruins families and kills people in auto accidents on a routine basis.

Marijuana is clearly the biggest problem here, no question.

better ban milk, cheese and other dairy products because it can lead to clogged arteries.

weed is the reason so many people die in drunk driving accidents...


LMAO

So the BB potheads jump in to add empirical proof for the study...LMAO

Bump
08-27-2012, 05:52 PM
what a bullshit article. Those are straight up lies, plenty of other studies tell the contrary. Propaganda?

Shogun
08-27-2012, 05:53 PM
what a bullshit article. Those are straight up lies, plenty of other studies tell the contrary. Propaganda?

Like I said, I'm waiting for Simplicity to show up to let us know if this study is legit or not. I WILL ONLY BELIEVE HIM.

planetdoc
08-27-2012, 05:55 PM
Would you call pot a harmless drug?

every drug, and every substance (including H20, O2, and marijuana) can have a negative effect based on dosage and delivery.

Others have already mentioned some potential limitations of this study. I have some more to add:

1. recall bias - participants were "asked about usage", and designated individual were "asked about memory/attention"

2. small sample size - 1/20 started using MJ before 18yrs which = 50 individuals (initial population 1000). They are basing their conclusion about the effect of MJ to IQ on essentially 50 individuals. too small.

3. MAJOR confounding variable: smoke. This study only looked at pot SMOKERS. Although smoking is the most common means of consuming, MJ can also be vaped and eaten (edibles). It could very well be the SMOKE that is causing issues (reducing oxygen exchange in lungs, affecting arteries, etc) and not MJ specifically. I would be interested to see how this compares to ciggarette smokers, MJ vaporized, and eaten MJ.

To me it seems like common sense to avoid inhaling smoke of any kind 4x/wk for 20yrs

Bump
08-27-2012, 05:58 PM
every drug, and every substance (including H20, O2, and marijuana) can have a negative effect based on dosage and delivery.

Others have already mentioned some potential limitations of this study. I have some more to add:

1. recall bias - participants were "asked about usage", and designated individual were "asked about memory/attention"

2. small sample size - 1/20 started using MJ before 18yrs which = 50 individuals (initial population 1000). They are basing their conclusion about the effect of MJ to IQ on essentially 50 individuals. too small.

3. MAJOR confounding variable: smoke. This study only looked at pot SMOKERS. Although smoking is the most common means of consuming, MJ can also be vaped and eaten (edibles). It could very well be the SMOKE that is causing issues (reducing oxygen exchange in lungs, affecting arteries, etc) and not MJ specifically. I would be interested to see how this compares to ciggarette smokers, MJ vaporized, and eaten MJ.

To me it seems like common sense to avoid inhaling smoke of any kind 4x/wk for 20yrs

it's known by scientists and many others that the smoke from the weed actually helps prevent lung cancer and other types of head and neck cancers, not cause it! The studies show that people who smoke weed regularly have a lower chance at getting lung cancer than someone who doesn't smoke anything at all.

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 05:59 PM
LMAO

So the BB potheads jump in to add empirical proof for the study...LMAO

And yet of all the people you quoted, you're the biggest dumbass....

Anyway, this isn't new news, like DaFace said.

I had to have this conversation with a pre-teen just a few weeks ago. Apparently he had some friends who've discovered that smoking pot makes you cool (sarcasm btw, for the non-potheads who are too stupid to pick up on it).

I don't believe in lying to teens so i had to be honest with him and let him know that pot isn't the devil and it can be fun (he's going to try it at some point, it's inevitable like drinking a beer), but he needs to stay away from it while he's in school. It was a difficult conversation to have. Trying not to lie to the kid about it, while trying to convince him that he doesn't need that shit in his life either.

griZZly64
08-27-2012, 05:59 PM
you can get so high you cheat on your wife. but you'll never get so high you tell her. weed only let's you forget the unimportant shit folks. ROFL

Since when does weed increase your chances of cheating on your wife? I think you're mistakign it with alcohol. Or you're just another one of the sheep.

Hydrae
08-27-2012, 06:00 PM
it's known by scientists and many others that the smoke from the weed actually helps prevent lung cancer and other types of head and neck cancers, not cause it! The studies show that people who smoke weed regularly have a lower chance at getting lung cancer than someone who doesn't smoke anything at all.

Yes but those who smoke both pot and cigs have a much higher risk of smoke related cancers.

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 06:02 PM
Also, who's to say the weed caused them to get slightly dumber? Judging by the populous on this forum, simply getting older can make you stupider.

Donger
08-27-2012, 06:23 PM
it's known by scientists and many others that the smoke from the weed actually helps prevent lung cancer and other types of head and neck cancers, not cause it! The studies show that people who smoke weed regularly have a lower chance at getting lung cancer than someone who doesn't smoke anything at all.

LMAO

Shogun
08-27-2012, 06:24 PM
Since when does weed increase your chances of cheating on your wife? I think you're mistakign it with alcohol. Or you're just another one of the sheep.

Lol. It's part of a Joe Rogan standup show. I was doing it by memory and fucking it up. Loosen your jeans there buddy.

Good listen. http://comedians.jokes.com/joe-rogan/videos/joe-rogan---pot-protects-important-memories

Donger
08-27-2012, 06:25 PM
every drug, and every substance (including H20, O2, and marijuana) can have a negative effect based on dosage and delivery.

Others have already mentioned some potential limitations of this study. I have some more to add:

1. recall bias - participants were "asked about usage", and designated individual were "asked about memory/attention"

2. small sample size - 1/20 started using MJ before 18yrs which = 50 individuals (initial population 1000). They are basing their conclusion about the effect of MJ to IQ on essentially 50 individuals. too small.

3. MAJOR confounding variable: smoke. This study only looked at pot SMOKERS. Although smoking is the most common means of consuming, MJ can also be vaped and eaten (edibles). It could very well be the SMOKE that is causing issues (reducing oxygen exchange in lungs, affecting arteries, etc) and not MJ specifically. I would be interested to see how this compares to ciggarette smokers, MJ vaporized, and eaten MJ.

To me it seems like common sense to avoid inhaling smoke of any kind 4x/wk for 20yrs

You didn't answer my question.

Ace Gunner
08-27-2012, 06:30 PM
so that's why there is so many stupid drunks.

Pitt Gorilla
08-27-2012, 06:32 PM
Would you call pot a harmless drug?You appear to be the only person that has noted that in this thread. Are you typically this obtuse?

Brock
08-27-2012, 06:32 PM
[Dr. Carl] Sagan was a user and advocate of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[58][59] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[60][61][62] Not long after his death, widow Ann Druyan had gone on to preside over the board of directors of NORML, a foundation dedicated to reforming cannabis laws.[63]

Frazod
08-27-2012, 06:33 PM
I doubt if it lowers IQ as much as reading R8ers' posts.

planetdoc
08-27-2012, 06:35 PM
You didn't answer my question.

harmless = without harm.

Depending on dosage and delivery there is no drug or substance (including H20, O2, and marijuana) that is completely without harm.

MahiMike
08-27-2012, 06:41 PM
That's stoopid man.

Brock
08-27-2012, 06:41 PM
Would you call pot a harmless drug?

The psychotropic components of marijuana are harmless, yes.

Donger
08-27-2012, 06:43 PM
You appear to be the only person that has noted that in this thread. Are you typically this obtuse?

Some people are on record here claiming that MJ is a harmless drug.

Donger
08-27-2012, 06:44 PM
harmless = without harm.

Depending on dosage and delivery there is no drug or substance (including H20, O2, and marijuana) that is completely without harm.

I know.

Donger
08-27-2012, 06:45 PM
The psychotropic components of marijuana are harmless, yes.

Really? What is one is driving?

mikey23545
08-27-2012, 06:48 PM
And yet of all the people you quoted, you're the biggest dumbass....

Anyway, this isn't new news, like DaFace said.

I had to have this conversation with a pre-teen just a few weeks ago. Apparently he had some friends who've discovered that smoking pot makes you cool (sarcasm btw, for the non-potheads who are too stupid to pick up on it).

I don't believe in lying to teens so i had to be honest with him and let him know that pot isn't the devil and it can be fun (he's going to try it at some point, it's inevitable like drinking a beer), but he needs to stay away from it while he's in school. It was a difficult conversation to have. Trying not to lie to the kid about it, while trying to convince him that he doesn't need that shit in his life either.


A pre-teen came to you for advice?

Was it while you were watching big, sweaty, roided-up men prancing around wearing short-shorts on television?

Brock
08-27-2012, 06:49 PM
Really? What is one is driving?

What one chooses to do while under the influence has nothing to do with the health effects of the substance itself, just as drunk driving doesn't make alcohol the problem. The problem you describe is human behavior.

Shogun
08-27-2012, 06:50 PM
Really? What is one is driving?

Lol this is heading somewhere retarded.

Simplicity
08-27-2012, 06:55 PM
Smoking is for gays. Like Bump.

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 06:56 PM
A pre-teen came to you for advice?

Was it while you were watching big, sweaty, roided-up men prancing around wearing short-shorts on television?

Another homophobic rebuttal. You're so in the closet it's not even funny.

What's even funnier is that you mention "big sweaty, roided up men prancing around wearing shorts on television" as if it were suppose to be a dis......on a football forum. Jackass. Just goes to show how stupid you are.

Thank god your generation is phasing out.

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Weed is Gud
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Weed is bad
Posted via Mobile Device

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 06:58 PM
Weed is bad
Posted via Mobile Device

What is weed? /Donger

mikey23545
08-27-2012, 06:58 PM
Another homophobic rebuttal. You're so in the closet it's not even funny.

What's even funnier is that you mention "big sweaty, roided up men prancing around wearing shorts on television" as if it were suppose to be a dis......on a football forum. Jackass. Just goes to show how stupid you are.

Thank god your generation is phasing out.

And thank God your generation who look up to professional wrestlers as your heroes is taking over...LMAO

Luke Warm
08-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Another homophobic rebuttal. You're so in the closet it's not even funny.

What's even funnier is that you mention "big sweaty, roided up men prancing around wearing shorts on television" as if it were suppose to be a dis......on a football forum. Jackass. Just goes to show how stupid you are.

Thank god your generation is phasing out.

LMAO

Luke Warm
08-27-2012, 07:02 PM
And thank God your generation who look up to professional wrestlers as your heroes is taking over...LMAO

What makes you think that's funny?

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 07:02 PM
And thank God your generation who look up to professional wrestlers as your heroes is taking over...LMAO

I love how you just make shit up to sound funny....and it's still not funny.

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:05 PM
What one chooses to do while under the influence has nothing to do with the health effects of the substance itself, just as drunk driving doesn't make alcohol the problem. The problem you describe is human behavior.

Some here also claim that driving under the influence of pot isn't an issue.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question: is pot a harmless drug? Yes or no?

mikey23545
08-27-2012, 07:05 PM
I love how you just make shit up to sound funny....and it's still not funny.


http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1640/cmpunkblowsakiss.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/cmpunkblowsakiss.jpg/)

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 07:06 PM
Some here also claim that driving under the influence of pot isn't an issue.

Some? or Bump? Don't get it twisted.

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 07:07 PM
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1640/cmpunkblowsakiss.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/cmpunkblowsakiss.jpg/)

That one was funny, haha.

But you're still a homophobe that has to deep throat chicken bones to feel more like a man, one post isn't going to change that.

Funny pic though. I laughed.

Detoxing
08-27-2012, 07:09 PM
Some here also claim that driving under the influence of pot isn't an issue.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question: is pot a harmless drug? Yes or no?

Are prescription drugs harmless drugs?

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:10 PM
Some? or Bump? Don't get it twisted.

I believe there were a few others, but I could be wrong.

BigRedChief
08-27-2012, 07:10 PM
What one chooses to do while under the influence has nothing to do with the health effects of the substance itself, just as drunk driving doesn't make alcohol the problem. The problem you describe is human behavior.On this we agree. The problem is not the pot or the alcohol, its the users abuse of the drug. They want sit in their living room and drink a six pack or smoke a bud, should not be a big deal.

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:10 PM
Are prescription drugs harmless drugs?

No.

Brock
08-27-2012, 07:12 PM
Some here also claim that driving under the influence of pot isn't an issue.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question: is pot a harmless drug? Yes or no?

If it is smoked, it is most likely as dangerous or more dangerous than tobacco. If it is eaten or otherwise ingested, yes, quite harmless.

planetdoc
08-27-2012, 07:16 PM
Some people are on record here claiming that MJ is a harmless drug.

They likely are speaking in the relative sense and not in absolutes.

Most would consider water to be relatively harmless, yet individuals have died from water intoxication (documented cases). Thus water is not absolutely harmless.

Compared to Alcohol, cigarette, and acetomenophen (among other legal OTC substances), I can confidently say that MJ use is relatively harmless. That doesnt mean it is an absolutely harmless drug.

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:18 PM
If it is smoked, it is most likely as dangerous or more dangerous than tobacco. If it is eaten or otherwise ingested, yes, quite harmless.

Does ingesting by means other than smoking it also drop IQ?

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:19 PM
They likely are speaking in the relative sense and not in absolutes.

Most would consider water to be relatively harmless, yet individuals have died from water intoxication (documented cases). Thus water is not absolutely harmless.

Compared to Alcohol, cigarette, and acetomenophen (among other legal OTC substances), I can confidently say that MJ use is relatively harmless. That doesnt mean it is an absolutely harmless drug.

Yes, I know.

AustinChief
08-27-2012, 07:19 PM
If it is smoked, it is most likely as dangerous or more dangerous than tobacco. If it is eaten or otherwise ingested, yes, quite harmless.

I wouldn't say "quite".. more accurate to say "mostly" harmless. It has serious chemical effects of the brain.. just like alcohol... neither is proven to cause serious long term effects in adult brains unless abused ridiculously.

I have no problem with weed but I hate the people who scream about it being natural and healthy and what not without being REASONABLE about the issue. They are JUST AS BAD as the reefer madness/gateway drug folks.

(I'm not saying there is no such thing as a gateway drug, but that is more sociological then a function of the substance itself)

Brock
08-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Does ingesting by means other than smoking it also drop IQ?

It doesn't drop IQ.

AustinChief
08-27-2012, 07:20 PM
They likely are speaking in the relative sense and not in absolutes.

Most would consider water to be relatively harmless, yet individuals have died from water intoxication (documented cases). Thus water is not absolutely harmless.

Compared to Alcohol, cigarette, and acetomenophen (among other legal OTC substances), I can confidently say that MJ use is relatively harmless. That doesnt mean it is an absolutely harmless drug.

Well put.

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:21 PM
It doesn't drop IQ.

What happens when it is burned and inhaled that makes it so?

AustinChief
08-27-2012, 07:22 PM
It doesn't drop IQ.

I certainly don't trust this "study" but it could conceivably STUNT IQ in a non-permanent fashion. (and I don't mean just when a person is high.. we KNOW that stunts IQ)

Now, I'm not saying it DOES.. it'd be an incredibly difficult study to perform accurately. But we can't say it doesn't, we can say there is no substantial proof it does.

I know, I'm picking nits at this point.

Brock
08-27-2012, 07:23 PM
What happens when it is burned and inhaled that makes it so?

It doesn't make any difference to a person's IQ whether it's smoked or not. The smoking aspect of it has the usual effects that smoking has on anyone. It's harmful to the cardiopulmonary system and contains carcinogens.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-27-2012, 07:24 PM
Makes you dumb

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:24 PM
It doesn't make any difference to a person's IQ whether it's smoked or not. The smoking aspect of it has the usual effects that smoking has on anyone. It's harmful to the cardiopulmonary system and contains carcinogens.

I see. So, you completely dispute the OP?

Brock
08-27-2012, 07:28 PM
I see. So, you completely dispute the OP?

I suspect you're high, Captain Obvious.

Setsuna
08-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Bump will rage and then cap it off with a smoking session.

Bump
08-27-2012, 07:33 PM
LMAO

laughing at your own ignorance? look it up.


I have a secret for you people. The media is most definitely controlled by one thing! money!

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:34 PM
I suspect you're high, Captain Obvious.

No, I just wanted an honest answer. Seems I have it.

Donger
08-27-2012, 07:34 PM
laughing at your own ignorance? look it up.


I have a secret for you people. The media is most definitely controlled by one thing! money!

Yes, I know. It's a big conspiracy, man.

Johnny Vegas
08-27-2012, 07:36 PM
The real question is how are these teachers effectively teaching our children? These teachers that are having sexual relations with their students are not helping. Seems like kids are more into sexting, partying, and spending mom and dads money as they drive a BMW to school. The ones with the pot in school are the ones with the money that came from mom and dad. Its the lifestyle that eventually is the culprit. If you're having fun why even go to school? Thats the mentality.

mlyonsd
08-27-2012, 07:47 PM
it does wut?

Canofbier
08-27-2012, 07:49 PM
I certainly don't trust this "study" but it could conceivably STUNT IQ in a non-permanent fashion. (and I don't mean just when a person is high.. we KNOW that stunts IQ)

Now, I'm not saying it DOES.. it'd be an incredibly difficult study to perform accurately. But we can't say it doesn't, we can say there is no substantial proof it does.

I know, I'm picking nits at this point.

Again, I'm not sure why people are doubting the study itself. This is a longitudinal study, where they collect a bunch of information from a bunch of people over a long period of time. These kinds of studies are common and essential to modern public health. They usually follow the guidelines of a good study pretty well, as they are expensive to do and require a large time investment.

This study was NOT done to vilify marijuana; they simply found the correlation between heavy pot use and IQ decrease and then reported it. One could make the argument that there are hidden variables that bring the actual causation into question, but as far as study results that you find on the internet go, this is pretty reliable.

philfree
08-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I know guys who smoked pot all through HS and they are pretty much genius to this day. Developed octane testers and and have huge paying jobs doing research for huge corporations. Me? I'm a Chiefs fan........

mlyonsd
08-27-2012, 07:53 PM
It's like anything else, if you binge it, it will make you stupid.

ThaVirus
08-27-2012, 08:09 PM
They likely are speaking in the relative sense and not in absolutes.

Most would consider water to be relatively harmless, yet individuals have died from water intoxication (documented cases). Thus water is not absolutely harmless.

Compared to Alcohol, cigarette, and acetomenophen (among other legal OTC substances), I can confidently say that MJ use is relatively harmless. That doesnt mean it is an absolutely harmless drug.

I like this guy.

Again, I'm not sure why people are doubting the study itself. This is a longitudinal study, where they collect a bunch of information from a bunch of people over a long period of time. These kinds of studies are common and essential to modern public health. They usually follow the guidelines of a good study pretty well, as they are expensive to do and require a large time investment.

This study was NOT done to vilify marijuana; they simply found the correlation between heavy pot use and IQ decrease and then reported it. One could make the argument that there are hidden variables that bring the actual causation into question, but as far as study results that you find on the internet go, this is pretty reliable.

I was going to answer the first bolded part but you basically answered your question with the second. That's pretty much my issue. I'd hate for people to start hanging their hats on these types of studies when they're really inconclusive.

AustinChief
08-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Again, I'm not sure why people are doubting the study itself.

I just haven't looked at it yet, so I don;t want to say I agree with something I have no clue about. Also, I inherently don't trust anything I see printed in a UK paper (Sorry Donger). They are the worst at printing garbage.. even the so called reputable ones. The study may be a-ok.. I simply don't have a clue.. hence my doubtful tone at the moment.

Canofbier
08-27-2012, 08:13 PM
I like this guy.



I was going to answer the first bolded part but you basically answered your question with the second. That's pretty much my issue. I'd hate for people to start hanging their hats on these types of studies when they're really inconclusive.

That's just it; the newspaper is making the claim, not the study. Because of the nature of the study, I tend to believe its statistics, but not necessarily the conclusions that people may try to make off of them.

CoMoChief
08-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Inhaling any kind of smoke is bad for you. But there are other ways to consume it. Smoking tabacco and cigarettes are much more harmful for your body anyways, yet they're legal, it's not anything you haven't heard before.

notorious
08-27-2012, 08:30 PM
Nearly every pothead I have known is absent minded.

tiptap
08-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Maybe we should include the longitudal studies about alcohol and cancer. And maybe include LSD use and increased IQ.

planetdoc
08-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Again, I'm not sure why people are doubting the study itself. This is a longitudinal study...

Every study has limitations. Just because this study is longitudinal doesnt make it reliable and valid. People should carefully examine the article:
infam.antville.org/static/infam/files/pnas.pdf

For example, although the population followed is has an even mix of male and female New Zeelanders, what is the ethnic breakdown? THe original Dunedin study population has few "non-whites." We already know "drugs" can have different effects on ethnic groups (such as betaBlockers on Whites vs Blacks)

Cohort studies (such as this one) have a number of inherent limitations.
In anycase, its good to read the article. The authors themselves mention some limitations of the study (as they should).

but as far as study results that you find on the internet go, this is pretty reliable....
its only reliable if others can reproduce results. In general, this is an enormous problem currently in academia (study finding that cant be reproduced). Some recently have started a "reproducability initiative."

go bowe
08-27-2012, 08:37 PM
That is scary. I was 18 when I started smoking and have been a nearly daily smoker ever since. Today I turn 52 so that is 33-34 years with more days stoned than not.

Oh, BTW, I am going to college and carrying a 3.85 GPA with 6 classes left to graduation with a BSIT. I must have been uber smart all those years ago.

i can beat that...

i'm 64 and have been smoking regularly since i was 14...

or is it that i'm 14 and have been smoking since i was 64?

whatever, but speaking of that, brb... :bong:

go bowe
08-27-2012, 08:39 PM
Well yeah, but it took you 34 years to graduate college. So...... about that.. :D

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Chief Roundup
08-27-2012, 09:11 PM
you can get so high you cheat on your wife. but you'll never get so high you tell her. weed only let's you forget the unimportant shit folks. ROFL

Uh BS not capable of being so high that you would cheat on your wife.

Braincase
08-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Did they differentiate between bunk weed & the good stuff? The crap teenagers smoke has to do some damage, but the good sh!t will elevate one to high landrons.

BillSelfsTrophycase
08-27-2012, 09:24 PM
Nearly every pothead I have known is absent minded.

What did you say?

phillip
08-27-2012, 09:30 PM
I suspect you're high, Captain Obvious.

ROFL

Bacillus Anthracis
08-27-2012, 09:41 PM
Again, I'm not sure why people are doubting the study itself. This is a longitudinal study, where they collect a bunch of information from a bunch of people over a long period of time. These kinds of studies are common and essential to modern public health. They usually follow the guidelines of a good study pretty well, as they are expensive to do and require a large time investment.

This study was NOT done to vilify marijuana; they simply found the correlation between heavy pot use and IQ decrease and then reported it. One could make the argument that there are hidden variables that bring the actual causation into question, but as far as study results that you find on the internet go, this is pretty reliable.

What struck me right off the bat is that the study doesn't mention economic circumstance or educational levels, both of which have a significant bearing on IQ test results. Generally, the poorer you are, the less educated you are and the more likely it is that you'll use illicit substances which in turn makes it less likely that you'll be well educated.

The study is a classic example of the mistake that correlation = causation (as you mentioned).

The study is getting a lot of criticism because it's not very thorough and because legalization of pot is an important social issue. When compared with the damage alcohol does to nearly every organ in the body, pot being illegal is insane. And half-assed studies like the one in the OP only work to perpetuate the problem.

BigMeatballDave
08-27-2012, 09:51 PM
Nearly every pothead I have known is absent minded.

They were likely absent-minded long before they became potheads.

listopencil
08-27-2012, 09:58 PM
[Dr. Carl] Sagan was a user and advocate of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[58][59] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[60][61][62] Not long after his death, widow Ann Druyan had gone on to preside over the board of directors of NORML, a foundation dedicated to reforming cannabis laws.[63]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/69/CosmosSagan5.jpg

Cosmos was a crappy show. It would have been a lot better if he wasn't high.

loochy
08-28-2012, 05:10 AM
Weed lowers IQ yet alcohol causes numerous variants of cancer, impairs users' decision making, ruins families and kills people in auto accidents on a routine basis.

Marijuana is clearly the biggest problem here, no question.

Alcohol was not a part of this study.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 05:48 AM
I smoke to give everybody else around me a chance. My hyper-charged intellect needs a rest every once in a while.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 05:53 AM
Did they differentiate between bunk weed & the good stuff? The crap teenagers smoke has to do some damage, but the good sh!t will elevate one to high landrons.

Exactly.

Life, all life, is about balance.

Of course high quality cheeba suppresses your intellect.

It also unlocks parts of your brain you never knew existed.

http://bangkokjungle.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/cedar-mountain-solar-logo.jpg%3Fw%3D265%26h%3D300

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 05:55 AM
I know guys who smoked pot all through HS and they are pretty much genius to this day. Developed octane testers and and have huge paying jobs doing research for huge corporations. Me? I'm a Chiefs fan........

I tend to think one is a genius or one is not.

Whether you smoke bud or not really doesn't matter in the end.

Nzoner
08-28-2012, 06:34 AM
I'm trying to recall if I ever smoked or not.

loochy
08-28-2012, 07:37 AM
OK guys face it: there might be something bad about weed. I know it shatters your belief system, but there are very few, if any, things that don't carry some sort of negative that goes along with the positive.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 07:39 AM
OK guys face it: there might be something bad about weed. I know it shatters your belief system, but there are very few, if any, things that don't carry some sort of negative that goes along with the positive.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8858581&postcount=116

loochy
08-28-2012, 07:41 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8858581&postcount=116

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080423/Stars/Harold-Kumar-Neil-Patrick_l.jpg

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 07:44 AM
http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080423/Stars/Harold-Kumar-Neil-Patrick_l.jpg

Precisely.

Big Smoke
08-28-2012, 08:08 AM
Never tried it before. Soon I'll be starting a state job so I don't want to risk losing that either. Legalize it and stuff?

WhiteWhale
08-28-2012, 08:20 AM
I question the validity of IQ tests in general. I've taken five and there's a 47 point difference in my lowest and highest scores.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 08:22 AM
I question the validity of IQ tests in general. I've taken five and there's a 47 point difference in my lowest and highest scores.

Well duh.

When you take it high and then take it again sober, that's what happens.

Fat Elvis
08-28-2012, 08:26 AM
Did they differentiate between bunk weed & the good stuff? The crap teenagers smoke has to do some damage, but the good sh!t will elevate one to high landrons.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dULOjT9GYdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
08-28-2012, 08:32 AM
I question the validity of IQ tests in general. I've taken five and there's a 47 point difference in my lowest and highest scores.

159 to 206?

WhiteWhale
08-28-2012, 08:33 AM
Well duh.

When you take it high and then take it again sober, that's what happens.

Let me put this in a self depreciating way.

I once scored 184 on an IQ test.

That makes me one of the smartest men alive... and that's ridiculous. I'm not even one of the smartest guys on this forum.

159 to 206?

137 to 184.

I can assure you I'm much closer to the lower number. I've met geniuses, and I'm not one of them. I just thought the tests were easy.

Donger
08-28-2012, 08:34 AM
Let me put this in a self-deprecating way.

I once scored 184 on an IQ test.

That makes me one of the smartest men alive... and that's ridiculous. I'm not even one of the smartest guys on this forum.

FYP, unless of course, you actually are depreciating.

WhiteWhale
08-28-2012, 08:36 AM
FYP, unless of course, you actually are depreciating.

Well, I just got out of surgery. I am pretty high.

Radar Chief
08-28-2012, 08:37 AM
I smoke to give everybody else around me a chance. My hyper-charged intellect needs a rest every once in a while.

http://rlv.zcache.com/medicated_for_your_protection_tshirt-re94c63d665304a97931e892fbd962135_f0cz4_216.jpg?max_dim=328

Donger
08-28-2012, 08:38 AM
Well, I just got out of surgery. I am pretty high.

LMAO

loochy
08-28-2012, 08:42 AM
I guess this study proves that Frankie never smoked weed.

Chief Faithful
08-28-2012, 08:54 AM
As far as I know, that's not new news. I've always heard that it can have negative effects on teens since their brains are still developing, but that those effects aren't seen among adults.

Great, I was scared there for a minute.

Earthling
08-28-2012, 09:07 AM
Teenagers who regularly smoke cannabis are putting themselves at risk of permanently damaging their intelligence, according to a landmark study.


Researchers found persistent users of the drug, who started smoking it at school, had lower IQ scores as adults.

As opposed to those who started smoking it someplace other than school?
Also, is it just me or does smoking pot make anyone else want to rape and kill?

Mr. Laz
08-28-2012, 09:08 AM
no wonder the collective IQ of this place has been dropping ever year

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:10 AM
no wonder the collective IQ of this place has been dropping ever year

2-shay!

dmahurin
08-28-2012, 09:11 AM
Well duh.

When you take it high and then take it again sober, that's what happens.

If you study high, and take the test high, you'll get high scores.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:13 AM
If you study high, and take the test high, you'll get high scores.

If you study high...wait, when was the test again...what, it started 15 minutes ago! BAH! :cuss:

Brock
08-28-2012, 09:13 AM
Teenagers who regularly smoke cannabis are putting themselves at risk of permanently damaging their intelligence, according to a landmark study.


Researchers found persistent users of the drug, who started smoking it at school, had lower IQ scores as adults.
They were also significantly more likely to have attention and memory problems in later life, than their peers who abstained.
Furthermore, those who started as teenagers and used it heavily, but quit as adults, did not regain their full mental powers, found academics at Kingís College London and Duke University in the US.
They looked at data from over 1,000 people from Dunedin in New Zealand, who have been followed through their lives since being born in 1972 or 1973.
Participants were asked about cannabis usage when they were 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38. Their IQ was tested at 13 and 38. In addition, each nominated a close friend or family member, who was asked about attention and memory problems.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9426205/Cannabis-smoking-permanently-lowers-IQ.html

What IQ measurements were used? What do they mean by "heavy usage"? How did they confirm usage or abstention? Did they simply ask the test subects? Did they control for other drug usage, including alcohol? How did dummies get into Duke University?

This study looks like crap.

alnorth
08-28-2012, 09:14 AM
I will accept that there could be a correlation, but they haven't proven a direct link. For that, they'd need to take a random group of people, make them all smoke cigarettes in a double-blind study, and half of them would contain MJ.

I believe the cause here is apathy, lack of drive, and laziness. If you don't use your brain, and you just stay home, watch TV, play COD, and drool all day, you might become less sharp over time. These types of people probably are more likely to smoke dope. Driven people who exercise their mind and want a career have no choice but to abstain from illegal drugs. If you stop using drugs, there's a reason for that, maybe you decided you need to clean up your act, study, go to college, learn a trade, or whatever, and I'd think that regular mental stimulation would cause this observed "recovery".

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:15 AM
What IQ measurements were used? What do they mean by "heavy usage"? How did they confirm usage or abstention? Did they simply ask the test subects? Did they control for other drug usage, including alcohol? How did dummies get into Duke University?

This study looks like crap.

Other drug usage was assumed. After all, pot is a gateway drug and all potheads move on to other drugs.

Brock
08-28-2012, 09:16 AM
Other drug usage was assumed. After all, pot is a gateway drug and all potheads move on to other drugs.

That's true, I moved on to expensive beer. :D

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:17 AM
Driven people who exercise their mind and want a career have no choice but to abstain from illegal drugs.

I know driven, successful people who smoke pot. I know lots of lazy people who don't. Whether or not they partake has absolutely no impact on whether people are driven or not.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:18 AM
That's true, I moved on to expensive beer. :D

I got some of this the other day.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWBHtewZvANQMm96lhnuEZybtdIo87VO6PFutA3hZGazuOFGxO

alnorth
08-28-2012, 09:18 AM
I know driven, successful people who smoke pot. I know lots of lazy people who don't. Whether or not they partake has absolutely no impact on whether people are driven or not.

You know a few exceptions which prove the rule.

You can't tell me that pot use is not correlated at all with success and drive.

Fish
08-28-2012, 09:20 AM
I got some of this the other day.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWBHtewZvANQMm96lhnuEZybtdIo87VO6PFutA3hZGazuOFGxO

That's one of my favorites...

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:20 AM
You know a few exceptions which prove the rule.

You can't tell me that pot use is not correlated at all with success and drive.

I know TONS of unsuccessful, lazy people that don't smoke pot.

If you want to suggest that lazy people who lack ambition are more likely to smoke pot, I'll hear it.

If you want to suggest that pot CAUSES otherwise ambitious people to become lazy, that's bunk.

You're either lazy or you're not.

Brock
08-28-2012, 09:24 AM
That's just because the successful driven ones can afford cocaine.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:27 AM
That's just because the successful driven ones can afford cocaine.

Good point.

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Coming from heaviest producing area in the country I don't need a study to tell me that people who smoke a lot of weed are not that sharp. Growing up with an overabundance of it around and seeing what it did to a kid who tried it for the first time and seeing what that same kid was like as a pothead two years later made a uige impression. All of that said I know people who are extremely successful who smoke it but I would say it is more of a rare occasion sort of thing.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:36 AM
Coming from heaviest producing area in the country I don't need a study to tell me that people who smoke a lot of weed are not that sharp. Growing up with an overabundance of it around and seeing what it did to a kid who tried it for the first time and seeing what that same kid was like as a pothead two years later made a uige impression. All of that said I know people who are extremely successful who smoke it but I would say it is more of a rare occasion sort of thing.

In general, I look at it this way:

Drug use is a SYMPTOM, not a cause.

Unbalanced people who use drugs get more unbalanced. Normal, responsible people can use a drug like pot and not have it affect their daily lives one bit.

Of course, those people also aren't generally smoking 4 or 5 times a day because they have jobs and kids and such that require one to think clearly from time to time.

In other words, there's a difference between daily use and excessive use. And that can apply to anything, like food, for example.

Ace Gunner
08-28-2012, 09:43 AM
Coming from heaviest producing area in the country I don't need a study to tell me that people who smoke a lot of weed are not that sharp. Growing up with an overabundance of it around and seeing what it did to a kid who tried it for the first time and seeing what that same kid was like as a pothead two years later made a uige impression. All of that said I know people who are extremely successful who smoke it but I would say it is more of a rare occasion sort of thing.

I think the problem is not with pot, it's with drug use. legal drugs included. Fucking americans are turning into pharm animals. I interviewed 350 people for a marketing position last month and about 300 of them were maintaining some kind of high and most of them were pharms. It's as if these people were proud of having ADD and the scripts they use to "control" it. 90% of them were fresh out of college.

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 09:44 AM
In general, I look at it this way:

Drug use is a SYMPTOM, not a cause.

Unbalanced people who use drugs get more unbalanced. Normal, responsible people can use a drug like pot and not have it affect their daily lives one bit.

Of course, those people also aren't generally smoking 4 or 5 times a day because they have jobs and kids and such that require one to think clearly from time to time.

In other words, there's a difference between daily use and excessive use. And that can apply to anything, like food, for example.

WE are going to have to agree to disagree on the daily use thing. I think people who get faded daily are not as sharp as they would be if they didn't use.

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 09:45 AM
I think the problem is not with pot, it's with drug use. legal drugs included. ****ing americans are turning into pharm animals. I interviewed 350 people for a marketing position last month and about 300 of them were maintaining some kind of high and most of them were pharms. It's as if these people were proud of having ADD and the scripts they use to "control" it. 90% of them were fresh out of college.

I would agree with that take. I wasn't saying it was a problem as much as just noticing they are not as sharp. Legal drug abuse is a much bigger problem in this country.

Bump
08-28-2012, 09:51 AM
I got some of this the other day.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWBHtewZvANQMm96lhnuEZybtdIo87VO6PFutA3hZGazuOFGxO

that's a good brew. I like Boulder. Ever try their Mojo Rising? now that's a heck of an IIPA

I'm staying out of the weed discussion. people can choose to believe facts or gov't/corp controlled media, I'm not going to argue about it.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 09:52 AM
WE are going to have to agree to disagree on the daily use thing. I think people who get faded daily are not as sharp as they would be if they didn't use.

People who ingest high amounts of saturated fats aren't as "sharp" as they could be. People who ingest high amounts of caffeine daily are not always as "sharp" as they could be.

Everybody has something that's keeping them from being "perfect". A smart person is a smart person. Smoking pot might keep them from being "smarter" but it sure as hell won't make them dumb.

Bump
08-28-2012, 09:53 AM
People who ingest high amounts of saturated fats aren't as "sharp" as they could be. People who ingest high amounts of caffeine daily are not always as "sharp" as they could be.

Everybody has something that's keeping them from being "perfect". A smart person is a smart person. Smoking pot might keep them from being "smarter" but it sure as hell won't make them dumb.

I can accept that argument

Canofbier
08-28-2012, 09:57 AM
that's a good brew. I like Boulder. Ever try their Mojo Rising? now that's a heck of an IIPA

I'm staying out of the weed discussion. people can choose to believe facts or gov't/corp controlled media, I'm not going to argue about it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Ibonekoen/gifs/Lee_Facepalm.gif

Detoxing
08-28-2012, 09:59 AM
WE are going to have to agree to disagree on the daily use thing. I think people who get faded daily are not as sharp as they would be if they didn't use.

I agree that they aren't as sharp as they could be, but i disagree that it's only because of the weed. As Alnorth touched on, it can simply be due to not exercising the brain.

Don't you think a man straight out of school would retain more information (and score higher on an IQ test) than a man who hasn't been in school in 15+ years? Could simply not re-educating yourself and keeping yourself sharp be enough reason for a drop in IQ over the course of 15+ years?

Detoxing
08-28-2012, 10:01 AM
Everybody has something that's keeping them from being "perfect". A smart person is a smart person. Smoking pot might keep them from being "smarter" but it sure as hell won't make them dumb.

That's why this thread is silly. Those arguing against pot are suggesting that pot users are dumb, when the study doesn't even suggest that. There are too many variables as to why a persons I.Q could drop over such a large amount of time.

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 10:01 AM
People who ingest high amounts of saturated fats aren't as "sharp" as they could be. People who ingest high amounts of caffeine daily are not always as "sharp" as they could be.

Everybody has something that's keeping them from being "perfect". A smart person is a smart person. Smoking pot might keep them from being "smarter" but it sure as hell won't make them dumb.

I don't think fats or caffein are an accurate analogy but I get your point.

I still think having it illegal is a much bigger issue than legalizing it. Just saying.

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 10:05 AM
I agree that they aren't as sharp as they could be, but i disagree that it's only because of the weed. As Alnorth touched on, it can simply be due to not exercising the brain.

Don't you think a man straight out of school would retain more information (and score higher on an IQ test) than a man who hasn't been in school in 15+ years? Could simply not re-educating yourself and keeping yourself sharp be enough reason for a drop in IQ over the course of 15+ years?

All those things come into play. I don't give a shit about the article I don't need it to know that people who smoke too much weed are not as sharp as they are when they are not toking out.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 10:05 AM
I agree that they aren't as sharp as they could be, but i disagree that it's only because of the weed. As Alnorth touched on, it can simply be due to not exercising the brain.

Don't you think a man straight out of school would retain more information (and score higher on an IQ test) than a man who hasn't been in school in 15+ years? Could simply not re-educating yourself and keeping yourself sharp be enough reason for a drop in IQ over the course of 15+ years?

Define "exercising" the brain.

I would argue that the concept isn't black and white at all.

For example, under the influence, a person might be worse at math but better at playing the piano. That might be due to visualizing the keys differently - maybe their approach to the piano when sober is too rigid or mathematical. It also might be due to the absence of some inhibition that is present when the person is sober.

The human brain is supremely complex. At any given time, we're using just a small percentage of it.

I would argue that people who smoke high-THC strains are actually ARE exercising their brains, they're just exercising different parts of it.

htismaqe
08-28-2012, 10:13 AM
I don't think fats or caffein are an accurate analogy but I get your point.

I still think having it illegal is a much bigger issue than legalizing it. Just saying.

I chose saturated fats because they've been shown to cause metabolic reactions that in turn lead to lower brain function, ie. the after-lunch "crash".

boogblaster
08-28-2012, 12:00 PM
cannabis didnt hurt me .. i still slobber correctly .....

loochy
08-28-2012, 12:03 PM
:hmmm: Are people dumb because they smoke pot or do they smoke pot because they are dumb? :hmmm:

tiptap
08-28-2012, 12:26 PM
What about the climb in IQ testing through time. EVERY generation scores better than the previous one. It can be seen even across just a decade of age difference. IQ tests have to be re normalized to deal with this. Stangely the rise has nothing to do with language or math skills. It has to do with patterning processes. It cuts across all cultures.

whoman69
08-28-2012, 12:51 PM
Just wondering if they've done a similar study for alcohol at a young age.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-28-2012, 02:29 PM
:hmmm: Are people dumb because they smoke pot or do they smoke pot because they are dumb? :hmmm:

People are just dumb.


I smoked weed every day for ten years. It was from age 18 to 28. That was ten years ago. I love it. I have a job that drug tests regularly and that's why I had to quit. I smoke it maybe once a year now right after I get tested.

The only area I think if effected me was in my ability to spell. I was a much stronger speller before I smoked pot. It didn't hurt me anywhere else. My memory is good. My math is good. Everything else is OK.

It was worth it.

loochy
08-28-2012, 03:13 PM
Just wondering if they've done a similar study for alcohol at a young age.

the effects of alcohol are well documented and rather well known

whoman69
08-28-2012, 03:37 PM
the effects of alcohol are well documented and rather well known

So what's the difference between pot, which is illegal and looked down upon, and alcohol?

CoMoChief
08-28-2012, 03:41 PM
People are just dumb.


I smoked weed every day for ten years. It was from age 18 to 28. That was ten years ago. I love it. I have a job that drug tests regularly and that's why I had to quit. I smoke it maybe once a year now right after I get tested.

The only area I think if effected me was in my ability to spell. I was a much stronger speller before I smoked pot. It didn't hurt me anywhere else. My memory is good. My math is good. Everything else is OK.

It was worth it.

lol wut ?

CoMoChief
08-28-2012, 03:42 PM
So what's the difference between pot, which is illegal and looked down upon, and alcohol?

$$$$

loochy
08-28-2012, 03:45 PM
So what's the difference between pot, which is illegal and looked down upon, and alcohol?

What do you mean by "what is the difference"? Alcohol is alcohol. Pot is a plant. They are different things with different effects.

Flachief58
08-28-2012, 03:54 PM
I had something really clever to say, but I forgot what it was.

Flachief58
08-28-2012, 03:58 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t7rtVX0bcj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

NSFW

BIG_DADDY
08-28-2012, 04:37 PM
I had something really clever to say, but I forgot what it was.

LMAO

mr. tegu
08-28-2012, 05:15 PM
Let me put this in a self depreciating way.

I once scored 184 on an IQ test.

That makes me one of the smartest men alive... and that's ridiculous. I'm not even one of the smartest guys on this forum.



137 to 184.

I can assure you I'm much closer to the lower number. I've met geniuses, and I'm not one of them. I just thought the tests were easy.

Were these actual Weschler IQ tests given by a professional?

And I will add that studies have proven significant increases in scores if repeated within a few weeks of taking one. After about six months though people score basically the exact same.

MOhillbilly
08-28-2012, 05:16 PM
Who gives a fuck? If poeple do or don't wanna smoke more power to em.

memyselfI
08-28-2012, 06:06 PM
Television, namely the reality show genre, permanently lowers IQ more than pot ever will...

RippedmyFlesh
08-28-2012, 06:25 PM
Were these actual Weschler IQ tests given by a professional?

And I will add that studies have proven significant increases in scores if repeated within a few weeks of taking one. After about six months though people score basically the exact same.

At 18 you are coming off years of taking tests to pass classes.
At 38 unless you are going back to school you won't be taking tests
on a regular basis. I would think that alone may make you score slightly higher at 18.

bevischief
08-28-2012, 07:20 PM
then the soap

mr. tegu
08-28-2012, 08:02 PM
At 18 you are coming off years of taking tests to pass classes.
At 38 unless you are going back to school you won't be taking tests
on a regular basis. I would think that alone may make you score slightly higher at 18.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what I said. But anyways, IQ test can account for what you mentioned because they measure both crystalized and fluid intelligence. Crystalized is the one that is going to be affected by experience, knowledge and acquired/learned skills. Fluid intelligence is different in that it shows ability to solve novel problems independent of acquired skills by identifying patterns and relationships. The subtests of the IQ test can easily show if one of these skills is deficient or superior.

JohnnyHammersticks
08-28-2012, 08:12 PM
Although I'm certainly in favor of ending the ridiculous prohibition of marijuana, I don't advocate anyone under 18 using it. All the more reason to end prohibition. Marijuana prohibition has proven to be the worst possible system when it comes to protecting teens, driving marijuana into the underground market where proof of age is not required and where other illegal drugs might be available. In a regulated system, marijuana sales will be taken off the streets and put behind a counter where age restrictions are strictly enforced. There is evidence that regulating marijuana works. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, marijuana use among Colorado high school students declined from 2009 to 2011, the time during which the state began regulating medical marijuana sale. Meanwhile, it increased nationwide, where no such regulations were implemented.