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Fat Elvis
08-29-2012, 10:41 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-student-says-attackers-stapled-lips-shut-222337099--abc-news-topstories.html

A 19-year-old college student who was attending a party near Michigan State University early Sunday morning said he was beaten and his lips were stapled together after his attackers asked if he was Jewish, according to police.

Zachary Tennen told police that while he was at a party in East Lansing, Mich., two men punched him after he told them he was Jewish when they asked.

Tennen's mother told the Indianapolis Star newspaper that the two men raised their arms "in a Nazi salute, chanting 'Heil Hitler,'" before attacking Tennen. They then allegedly stapled his lips together, forcing a staple into his gums, according to the report.

Tennen told police that the men also said they were part of the Klu Klux Klan, according to Michigan State University's school newspaper, The State.

According to that report, Tennen awoke from being knocked out and took a cab to a local hospital. He notified East Lansing police of the incident later Sunday morning.

The Tennens did not return calls from ABC News for comment.

According to the Indianapolis Star report, Tennen is now recuperating from surgery at home in Oakland County, Michigan.

Poll to follow.


The East Lansing police department said in a statement to ABC News today that they do not believe the assault was a hate crime. Police said they had interviewed two witnesses and identified a potential suspect, and the investigation was ongoing.

lcarus
08-29-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah that's a hate crime

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 10:46 AM
The East Lansing PD are fucking morons.

ChiefButthurt
08-29-2012, 10:46 AM
YES.....This is why they manufactured the electric chair.

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 10:47 AM
Time to send this thread to DC.

If the victim has been Muslim, the two men would be on Death Row by now.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2012, 10:49 AM
It depends on how much more paperwork the officers have to fill out if it's a hate crime or not. More than 1 form, no hate crime.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 10:53 AM
What's the definition of a hate crime?

MIAdragon
08-29-2012, 10:54 AM
Not sure how that's even disputable.

DaFace
08-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Yes, but that's assuming the statements from the victim and the mom are true. I'm always a bit skeptical when the only ones cited in an article are clearly going to be biased - especially when this happened at a party with lots of people around. I'd certainly want more information before the guy was charged.

MIAdragon
08-29-2012, 10:55 AM
What's the definition of a hate crime?

Hate crime
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, sex, or gender identity.


[1] A hate crime is a category used to described bias-motivated violence: "assault, injury, and murder on the basis of certain personal characteristics: different appearance, different color, different nationality, different language, different religion."

[2] "Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).

[3] A hate crime law is a law intended to prevent bias-motivated violence. Hate crime laws are distinct from laws against hate speech in that hate crime laws enhance the penalties associated with conduct that is already criminal under other laws, while hate speech laws criminalize a category of speech.

blaise
08-29-2012, 10:59 AM
I'm guessing the police know something more than what's in that story.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:00 AM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 11:01 AM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...

Please stop being reasonable.

seclark
08-29-2012, 11:02 AM
"According to the Indianapolis Star report, Tennen is now recuperating from surgery at home in Oakland County, Michigan."

surgery??? didn't they have one of these?

tooge
08-29-2012, 11:02 AM
If indeed it was because he was jewish, then yes. Otherwise, just a routing mouth stapling incident.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:02 AM
Yes, but that's assuming the statements from the victim and the mom are true. I'm always a bit skeptical when the only ones cited in an article are clearly going to be biased - especially when this happened at a party with lots of people around. I'd certainly want more information before the guy was charged.

Good call.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:04 AM
Hate crime
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, sex, or gender identity.


[1] A hate crime is a category used to described bias-motivated violence: "assault, injury, and murder on the basis of certain personal characteristics: different appearance, different color, different nationality, different language, different religion."

[2] "Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).

[3] A hate crime law is a law intended to prevent bias-motivated violence. Hate crime laws are distinct from laws against hate speech in that hate crime laws enhance the penalties associated with conduct that is already criminal under other laws, while hate speech laws criminalize a category of speech.

I was unclear. I know what it is in general. I was wondering what the specific definition was in this jurisdiction.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:09 AM
Please stop being reasonable.

I'm printing that and putting it up on my fridge...

Just Passin' By
08-29-2012, 11:14 AM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...

Excellent post. Now, off to DC with this thread.

LVNHACK
08-29-2012, 11:22 AM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...


:thumb:

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 11:27 AM
What's the definition of a hate crime?

Trolling?

Frazod
08-29-2012, 11:33 AM
If indeed it was because he was jewish, then yes. Otherwise, just a routing mouth stapling incident.

Whenever I get attacked with a stapler, I always prefer it if the attackers are Jews.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Trolling?

No. You?

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Whenever I get attacked with a stapler, I always prefer it if the attackers are Jews.

I always avoid the Japanese in the workplace.

Which, honestly, is kind of easy 'cause I work in a prison...

Frazod
08-29-2012, 11:38 AM
I always avoid the Japanese in the workplace.

Which, honestly, is kind of easy 'cause I work in a prison...

It's probably fairly easy to find Jesus, though. :D

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 11:44 AM
No. You?

What's the definition of a hate crime? Really?

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:46 AM
It's probably fairly easy to find Jesus, though. :D

Nah, he's not there.

But Muhammad is real popular...

listopencil
08-29-2012, 11:47 AM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...

Yup. I agree. Intent should have merit in homicide cases, but "hate crime" is dangerously close to "though crime." Too close for comfort in my opinion. Just enforce the laws that were already on the books, thank you very much.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:47 AM
Really?

Yeah, really. Do you have an answer or are you just jacking around?

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:49 AM
Yup. I agree. Intent should have merit in homicide cases, but "hate crime" is dangerously close to "though crime."

It's not close - it's the exact same thing.

Mohammed
08-29-2012, 11:50 AM
Nah, he's not there.

But Muhammad is real popular...

I'm a cool guy. Girls want me and guys want to be me. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

listopencil
08-29-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm a cool guy. Girls want me and guys want to be me. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

So is it "Muhammad" or "Mohammed"?

Mohammed
08-29-2012, 11:51 AM
So is it "Muhammad" or "Mohammed"?


Yes.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 11:54 AM
So is it "Muhammad" or "Mohammed"?

:eek:

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Yeah, really. Do you have an answer or are you just jacking around?

Why on Earth would you ask that?

I'm assuming you're not an idiot.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm a cool guy. Girls want me and guys want to be me. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Don't any of your wives ever tell you to shave that scruffy thing on your face?

patteeu
08-29-2012, 11:57 AM
Why on Earth would you ask that?

I'm assuming you're not an idiot.

Get lost if you don't have an answer. I've already explained why I asked it.

listopencil
08-29-2012, 11:58 AM
It's not close - it's the exact same thing.

I would admit that there are differences. If I remember correctly you can be guilty of thought crime without taking any action or even speaking. But I think the author's intent, or the point he was getting at, is the exact same thing.

Saul Good
08-29-2012, 11:59 AM
Here's betting this is a hoax. They usually are, it seems.

listopencil
08-29-2012, 11:59 AM
Don't any of your wives ever tell you to shave that scruffy thing on your face?

Or at least do the official Chiefs Planet goatee.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:00 PM
The Hitler Brothers are real?

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:00 PM
Get lost if you don't have an answer. I've already explained why I asked it.

Seems like trolling.

Most adults are clear on what a Hate crime is.

listopencil
08-29-2012, 12:02 PM
Whenever I get attacked with a stapler, I always prefer it if the attackers are Jews.

I wonder if Jewish ninjas have thrown weps that look like the star of David.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 12:07 PM
Seems like trolling.

Most adults are clear on what a Hate crime is.

OK, whatever. Do you have anything useful to add or are you just going to go on and on about this? And btw, it appears that you don't know what it is since you're refusing to offer an answer.

Rain Man
08-29-2012, 12:08 PM
No.

I think it's pretty clear if you brutally attack someone "hate" is pretty much implied.

Why can't America ever just be even?

We've gone from a black man being 3/5ths a person to a protected class worth 3/5ths the time.

All crime is hate.

Only now is all hate a crime. WHY you kill should be considered and evaluated. The punishment should not be decided by the victim but by the act...

While I think what is reported is a hate crime according to my perception of the definition, I agree with this post and don't think hate crimes should exist as a special category. You either attack someone or you don't. The 'why' shouldn't really matter.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:09 PM
OK, whatever. Do you have anything useful to add or are you just going to go on and on about this?

I'm curious why an adult would need to ask what a hate crime is?

My 13 yr old son knows what a hate crime is.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:10 PM
I'm curious why an adult would need to ask what a hate crime is?

My 13 yr old son knows what a hate crime is.

Why are you being an asshole about this? Are the requirements for a hate crime the same in every jurisdiction?

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:10 PM
And btw, it appears that you don't know what it is since you're refusing to offer an answer.

I know what it is.

You asked the question, I didn't.

Saul Good
08-29-2012, 12:12 PM
I'm curious why an adult would need to ask what a hate crime is?

My 13 yr old son knows what a hate crime is.

Then why don't you educate us or shut the fuck up? I don't see anyone else getting apoplectic over the notion that everyone may not view the definition of a hate crime in exactly the same manner.

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Why are you being an asshole about this? Are the requirements for a hate crime the same in every jurisdiction?

First of all, this is Chiefsplanet. Asking about technicalities like the legal definition of a hate crime in a particular jurisdiction is a little over-the-top.

I mean, I realize we have a lot of smart/crazy fuckers here, but I highly doubt we've got too many people that know the specifics of hate crime legislation in Michigan.

Second, isn't the whole hate crime deal a federal issue anyway?

blaise
08-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Seems like trolling.

Most adults are clear on what a Hate crime is.

I doubt most prosecutors are even clear about when they should use it as a charge.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:15 PM
While I think what is reported is a hate crime according to my perception of the definition, I agree with this post and don't think hate crimes should exist as a special category. You either attack someone or you don't. The 'why' shouldn't really matter.

The "WHY" always should.

The color of the victim shouldn't.

If it does you have, flat out, equated the value of a person and specific ethnicity...

BIG_DADDY
08-29-2012, 12:17 PM
Hate crimes are lame. If you did that to anyone the reason why you did it isn't really important.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:18 PM
LMAO

Panties.

They're in a twist.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Hate crimes are lame. If you did that to anyone the reason why you did it isn't really important.

Yep.

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 12:18 PM
LMAO

Panties.

There in a twist.

THEY'RE.

Thank you.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:19 PM
First of all, this is Chiefsplanet. Asking about technicalities like the legal definition of a hate crime in a particular jurisdiction is a little over-the-top.

I mean, I realize we have a lot of smart/crazy ****ers here, but I highly doubt we've got too many people that know the specifics of hate crime legislation in Michigan.

Second, isn't the whole hate crime deal a federal issue anyway?

Howdy htis. Yep, this place is crawling with lawyers and other smart critters. There is at least one attorney in this conversation and at least one poster acting like one.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:20 PM
LMAO

Panties.

They're in a twist.

Then take them off before your wife catches you.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:21 PM
THEY'RE.

Thank you.

Obligatory grammar post...

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 12:21 PM
Howdy htis. Yep, this place is crawling with lawyers and other smart critters. There is at least one attorney in this conversation and at least one poster acting like one.

There's a half dozen attorneys here that I know of.

How many of them are intimately familiar with hate crime laws in this particular jurisdiction in Michigan, though? Probably few, if any.

Regardless of the rest of the discussion, Pat's original question ("What's the definition of a hate crime?") DOES seem like an attempt to be deliberately obtuse rather than a legitimate question.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:22 PM
Then take them off before your wife catches you.

I was trolling pat.

Then everyone's vagina started bleeding.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:25 PM
There's a half dozen attorneys here that I know of.

How many of them are intimately familiar with hate crime laws in this particular jurisdiction in Michigan, though? Probably few, if any.

Regardless of the rest of the discussion, Pat's original question ("What's the definition of a hate crime?") DOES seem like an attempt to be deliberately obtuse rather than a legitimate question.

I'll be gun barrel straight with you: I don't know what the exact definitions of a hate crime are. The concept has always seemed nebulous to me.

The OP asks us to decide whether the listed story is a hate crime. In order to answer that you need to know the required elements. I was wondering the same thing when I saw Pat had asked.

Since it's related directly to the question in the OP I don't see how my asking would have been trolling.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:26 PM
THEY'RE.

Thank you.You know what bothers me the most when it comes to grammer?

A LOT of people here are violators of this.

When people use OF instead of HAVE.

Examples: Would OF Could OF

OF is incorrect.

:D

blaise
08-29-2012, 12:26 PM
I bet the cops think he made it up.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:26 PM
I was trolling pat.

Then everyone's vagina started bleeding.

Collateral vagina damage is a favorable bonus of good trolling.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:27 PM
You know what bothers me the most when it comes to grammer?

A LOT of people here are violators of this.

When people use OF instead of HAVE.

Examples: Would OF Could OF

OF is incorrect.

:D

grammar

Setsuna
08-29-2012, 12:27 PM
Yes it has to be. When they ask you a question, and then proceed to do something drastic like that then yes. If he said no, they'd probably still beat the crap out of him.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:28 PM
I bet the cops think he made it up.

The Jew angle? What interest would he have in that? Wouldn't that compound the problem?

listopencil
08-29-2012, 12:29 PM
<center>THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931</center>

750.147b Ethnic intimidation.
Sec. 147b.
(1) A person is guilty of ethnic intimidation if that person maliciously, and with specific intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person's race, color, religion, gender, or national origin, does any of the following:
(a) Causes physical contact with another person.
(b) Damages, destroys, or defaces any real or personal property of another person.
(c) Threatens, by word or act, to do an act described in subdivision (a) or (b), if there is reasonable cause to believe that an act described in subdivision (a) or (b) will occur.
(2) Ethnic intimidation is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.
(3) Regardless of the existence or outcome of any criminal prosecution, a person who suffers injury to his or her person or damage to his or her property as a result of ethnic intimidation may bring a civil cause of action against the person who commits the offense to secure an injunction, actual damages, including damages for emotional distress, or other appropriate relief. A plaintiff who prevails in a civil action brought pursuant to this section may recover both of the following:
(a) Damages in the amount of 3 times the actual damages described in this subsection or $2,000.00, whichever is greater.
(b) Reasonable attorney fees and costs.

History: Add. 1988, Act 371, Eff. Mar. 30, 1989
Popular Name: Ethnic Intimidation
Popular Name: Hate Crimes


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28agdr32455xtowg55ekzbxq34%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetMCLDocument&objectname=mcl-750-147b

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:30 PM
I'll be gun barrel straight with you: I don't know what the exact definitions of a hate crime are. The concept has always seemed nebulous to me.

The OP asks us to decide whether the listed story is a hate crime. In order to answer that you need to know the required elements. I was wondering the same thing when I saw Pat had asked.

Since it's related directly to the question in the OP I don't see how my asking would have been trolling.

I thought it was obvious.

Asked him if he was a Jew, then assault him.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 12:32 PM
grammar

ROFL

I'm blaming that on my phone...

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:36 PM
While I think what is reported is a hate crime according to my perception of the definition, I agree with this post and don't think hate crimes should exist as a special category. You either attack someone or you don't. The 'why' shouldn't really matter.

I'm losing you.

"WHY" IS important. It should be, is now, and should always be.

But the person I (hypothetically) kill being black, white, asian, mexican, eastern european baltic mixed...

Why? Why would who I killed matter?

Look at it this way: Let's say an 8 year old black girl goes missing. Weeks go by. They find her body mangled and it's clear she was raped. Keep in mind that prime time TV doesn't care about dead black kids. They don't sell adds.

Your lawyer says "Well, you have X and Y and Z to charge him with. If the guy was white or latino we could add the hate crime legislation that would put him away for life but we can't. He'll probably get 20 and serve 10."

This is wrong for 1,000 reasons...

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 12:39 PM
You know what bothers me the most when it comes to grammer?

A LOT of people here are violators of this.

When people use OF instead of HAVE.

Examples: Would OF Could OF

OF is incorrect.

:D

I was just messing witcha. I don't give a fug about it really...

Rain Man
08-29-2012, 12:39 PM
I bet the cops think he made it up.

The cops are questioning him, but his lips are sealed.

mikey23545
08-29-2012, 12:39 PM
It's a crime. I doubt it would hurt any less if it had been done by two other Jews.

Frazod
08-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Hate crimes are lame. If you did that to anyone the reason why you did it isn't really important.

God knows I wanted to do it to my ex-wife a time or two.

Alright, the current one too. :evil:

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:42 PM
I thought it was obvious.

Asked him if he was a Jew, then assault him.

What if his girlfriend had just been raped at that party and she told him she knew the rapist was the only jew at that party?

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:43 PM
It's a crime. I doubt it would hurt any less if it had been done by two other Jews.

You piece of $3it jew-nazi-black-hindu-fucking-a-horse-male-news-reporter-@$$hole!

Why'd you change your avatar!?!?!

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 12:43 PM
I'm losing you.

"WHY" IS important. It should be, is now, and should always be.

But the person I (hypothetically) kill being black, white, asian, mexican, eastern european baltic mixed...

Why? Why would who I killed matter?

Look at it this way: Let's say an 8 year old black girl goes missing. Weeks go by. They find her body mangled and it's clear she was raped. Keep in mind that prime time TV doesn't care about dead black kids. They don't sell adds.

Your lawyer says "Well, you have X and Y and Z to charge him with. If the guy was white or latino we could add the hate crime legislation that would put him away for life but we can't. He'll probably get 20 and serve 10."

This is wrong for 1,000 reasons...

I think I get what you're saying but take exception to one item in the above...

You say the "why" is important but then say that the victim's ethnicity shouldn't matter.

It's possible (as it appears to be in this case) that the victim's ethnicity IS the "why".

That being said, while ethnicity could be a motive, I absolutely 100% agree that it shouldn't affect the sentence or severity of the crime.

If someone kills someone, the severity of the crime is defined by circumstance (was it pre-meditated, was it spontaneous, was it accidental but due to negligence). They should receive any additional considerations due to things like the victim's ethnicity.

listopencil
08-29-2012, 12:44 PM
I'm losing you.

"WHY" IS important. It should be, is now, and should always be.

But the person I (hypothetically) kill being black, white, asian, mexican, eastern european baltic mixed...

Why? Why would who I killed matter?

Look at it this way: Let's say an 8 year old black girl goes missing. Weeks go by. They find her body mangled and it's clear she was raped. Keep in mind that prime time TV doesn't care about dead black kids. They don't sell adds.

Your lawyer says "Well, you have X and Y and Z to charge him with. If the guy was white or latino we could add the hate crime legislation that would put him away for life but we can't. He'll probably get 20 and serve 10."

This is wrong for 1,000 reasons...


Yeah, the "why" is critically important in homicide cases. Was it negligence, was it premeditated, was it self defense, just too many scenarios to have a simple punishment.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 12:46 PM
ROFL

I'm blaming that on my phone...

:D normally I don't do the spelling correction thing but when someone is talking about grammar and misspell it I just have to laugh. You are far from the first I've seen do it.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:52 PM
That being said, while ethnicity could be a motive, I absolutely 100% agree that it shouldn't affect the sentence or severity of the crime.

This.

If you pull a gun out and take a life I don't care what color that life is.

Why you did it, when (wartime,) and other things play in. Agreed.

But the person who gets hit by the bullet is irrelevant. You took a life.

The only factor I would be willing to allow in to sway my judgement would be age...

Saul Good
08-29-2012, 12:57 PM
I'm not saying that I agree with making a special category for hate crimes, but I understand the rationale (whereas a lot of you apparently don't).

If I go out and get in a bar fight and shoot someone, that's murder. If I go out looking for blacks or gays or what have you in order to kill them, that is murder as well, but it's also something more. I am attempting to threaten/intimidate an entire group of people.

I can throw a rope on a black guy's lawn, and it's littering. If I tie that rope into a noose, it's something more serious.

Just Passin' By
08-29-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm not saying that I agree with making a special category for hate crimes, but I understand the rationale (whereas a lot of you apparently don't).

If I go out and get in a bar fight and shoot someone, that's murder. If I go out looking for blacks or gays or what have you in order to kill them, that is murder as well, but it's also something more. I am attempting to threaten/intimidate an entire group of people.

I can throw a rope on a black guy's lawn, and it's littering. If I tie that rope into a noose, it's something more serious.

You're making assumptions that are false more often than not.

Rausch
08-29-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm not saying that I agree with making a special category for hate crimes, but I understand the rationale (whereas a lot of you apparently don't).

If I go out and get in a bar fight and shoot someone, that's murder. If I go out looking for blacks or gays or what have you in order to kill them, that is murder as well, but it's also something more.

Why?

vailpass
08-29-2012, 01:02 PM
I'm not saying that I agree with making a special category for hate crimes, but I understand the rationale (whereas a lot of you apparently don't).

If I go out and get in a bar fight and shoot someone, that's murder. If I go out looking for blacks or gays or what have you in order to kill them, that is murder as well, but it's also something more. I am attempting to threaten/intimidate an entire group of people.

I can throw a rope on a black guy's lawn, and it's littering. If I tie that rope into a noose, it's something more serious.

If I go out looking for a woman to rape am I attempting to intimidate all women? That may be the end result. If so, is it a hate crime?

Rausch
08-29-2012, 01:03 PM
If I go out looking for a woman to rape am I attempting to intimidate all women? That may be the end result. If so, is it a hate crime?

There you go.

Did Ed Gein get charged with an ate crime?...

Saul Good
08-29-2012, 01:10 PM
If I go out looking for a woman to rape am I attempting to intimidate all women? That may be the end result. If so, is it a hate crime?

Are you trying to intimidate women? Probably not.

If you beat up a gay guy for spilling a drink on you, it's probably not a hate crime. If you seek out a gay guy, hold him down and carve "death to queers" into his chest, it is a threat against not only the person directly involved but to others as well.

I'm guessing you would look at a situation in which a guy burns down a church for insurance money differently than if some imam burned down a church as an act of jihad. It's the same act, but it's not the same thing.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 01:11 PM
I'm not saying that I agree with making a special category for hate crimes, but I understand the rationale (whereas a lot of you apparently don't).

If I go out and get in a bar fight and shoot someone, that's murder. If I go out looking for blacks or gays or what have you in order to kill them, that is murder as well, but it's also something more. I am attempting to threaten/intimidate an entire group of people.

I can throw a rope on a black guy's lawn, and it's littering. If I tie that rope into a noose, it's something more serious.

Agreed

vailpass
08-29-2012, 01:11 PM
Are you trying to intimidate women? Probably not.

If you beat up a gay guy for spilling a drink on you, it's probably not a hate crime. If you seek out a gay guy, hold him down and carve "death to queers" into his chest, it is a threat against not only the person directly involved but to others as well.

I'm guessing you would look at a situation in which a guy burns down a church for insurance money differently than if some imam burned down a church as an act of jihad. It's the same act, but it's not the same thing.

I see your point. The distinction doesn't seem to make enough difference to warrant an additional set of penalties.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2012, 01:12 PM
:D normally I don't do the spelling correction thing but when someone is talking about grammar and misspell it I just have to laugh. You are far from the first I've seen do it.

:) The irony was too good to pass...

whoman69
08-29-2012, 01:22 PM
What's the definition of a hate crime?

Why? So you can tear it apart?

Quick easy def is a crime against someone because of a particular group they belong to whether that be race, religion, sexual orientation.

vailpass
08-29-2012, 01:30 PM
Why? So you can tear it apart?

Quick easy def is a crime against someone because of a particular group they belong to whether that be race, religion, sexual orientation.

Would that also include the Judean People's Front?

mikey23545
08-29-2012, 01:36 PM
You piece of $3it jew-nazi-black-hindu-****ing-a-horse-male-news-reporter-@$$hole!

Why'd you change your avatar!?!?!

A childhood hero of mine recently passed away, and I thought I would pay a small tribute to him for awhile.

Don't worry, you're favorite little face will be back soon...possibly in the middle of the night...:fire:

patteeu
08-29-2012, 01:44 PM
I'm curious why an adult would need to ask what a hate crime is?

My 13 yr old son knows what a hate crime is.

Well then get him on here and have him answer my question since you don't seem to be able to.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 01:47 PM
First of all, this is Chiefsplanet. Asking about technicalities like the legal definition of a hate crime in a particular jurisdiction is a little over-the-top.

I mean, I realize we have a lot of smart/crazy ****ers here, but I highly doubt we've got too many people that know the specifics of hate crime legislation in Michigan.

Second, isn't the whole hate crime deal a federal issue anyway?

There may be federal hate crimes (I don't know), but this situation would fall under the state hate crime law. I realize that most people here won't know the difference between hate crimes in Michigan and hate crimes elsewhere but someone might (or more likely, someone will figure it out for me... that's how CP works). I don't know the difference either. That's why I asked.

If the question was "should this be a hate crime", I wouldn't need to know the definition to answer it.

patteeu
08-29-2012, 01:50 PM
You know what bothers me the most when it comes to grammer?

How to spell it?

patteeu
08-29-2012, 01:52 PM
<center>THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931</center>

750.147b Ethnic intimidation.
Sec. 147b.
(1) A person is guilty of ethnic intimidation if that person maliciously, and with specific intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person's race, color, religion, gender, or national origin, does any of the following:
(a) Causes physical contact with another person.
(b) Damages, destroys, or defaces any real or personal property of another person.
(c) Threatens, by word or act, to do an act described in subdivision (a) or (b), if there is reasonable cause to believe that an act described in subdivision (a) or (b) will occur.
(2) Ethnic intimidation is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or by a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.
(3) Regardless of the existence or outcome of any criminal prosecution, a person who suffers injury to his or her person or damage to his or her property as a result of ethnic intimidation may bring a civil cause of action against the person who commits the offense to secure an injunction, actual damages, including damages for emotional distress, or other appropriate relief. A plaintiff who prevails in a civil action brought pursuant to this section may recover both of the following:
(a) Damages in the amount of 3 times the actual damages described in this subsection or $2,000.00, whichever is greater.
(b) Reasonable attorney fees and costs.

History: Add. 1988, Act 371, Eff. Mar. 30, 1989
Popular Name: Ethnic Intimidation
Popular Name: Hate Crimes


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28agdr32455xtowg55ekzbxq34%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetMCLDocument&objectname=mcl-750-147b



Thanks. If the facts alleged are accurate, it seems to fit. It would be interesting to hear the explanation for why it wasn't charged.

Chiefnj2
08-29-2012, 01:59 PM
There is an update to the story. Police interviewed witnesses and say it was a 1 punch KO. No staples, no nazi reference, etc.

htismaqe
08-29-2012, 03:36 PM
How to spell it?

That's the official Chiefsplanet spelling.

whoman69
08-29-2012, 03:48 PM
Would that also include the Judean People's Front?

Especially the Judean People's Front. But I'm sure ancient Judea had a code of hate crimes.

Saul Good
08-29-2012, 04:41 PM
Here's betting this is a hoax. They usually are, it seems.

There is an update to the story. Police interviewed witnesses and say it was a 1 punch KO. No staples, no nazi reference, etc.

Yay for Saul.

boogblaster
08-29-2012, 04:53 PM
well

threebag02
08-29-2012, 04:58 PM
This is how you know

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Al_Sharpton_Jesse_Jackson_1.jpg

SHIT JUST GOT REAL

Sorter
08-29-2012, 05:58 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9e01t1CQI1qg5fln.gif