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View Full Version : Chiefs The Fatal Flaw In Romeo Crennel’s Defense


T-post Tom
08-30-2012, 12:06 AM
by Andrew Crocker (ArrowheadAddict.com)

Having been in this business for something approaching two decades, Kansas City Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel has a signature defensive scheme that has been called many things. It is called reactive. It’s called bend-but-don’t-break. It’s called technique-oriented. It’s been praised by supporters to be the ultimate team-approach to successful defense, utiliting the ability of all eleven defenders to elevate the play of all their teammates. It’s been criticized by detractors as being unaggressive, more concerned with preventing big plays than promoting big stops, playing on your heels instead of pinning your ears back.

The Two-Gap

However you term it, it truly is a unique defensive style that stands in stark contrast to almost the entirety of other NFL defensive schemes, and fewer have promoted it more successfully than Crennel.

His style is termed the “two-gap 3-4″ defense. At its base, that means you have three lineman with their hands in the dirt, typically two defensive ends that are big and strong enough to take on offensive tackles and tall enough to deter passes by the quarterback in the pocket (think of Tyson Jackson’s prototypical 6’4″, 296 lbs frame), and a humongous, bulky nose tackle that is built for getting low, absorbing punishment and administering immediate push against a hopelessly outsized center (think of Jerrell Powe’s prototypical 6’2″, 331 lbs frame). Then you have four linebackers: two passrushers on the edge (one who is a more one-dimensional pocket assaulter, and the other who is a swiss army knife of abilities), and two in the middle (one who is more of a line of scrimmage attacker, and the other who is more coverage-oriented). This earns Crennel’s defense the “3-4″ moniker, for those who didn’t already know.

But roughly half the teams in the NFL play with a 3-4 arrangment. It’s Crennel’s two-gap approach is what truly sets this defense apart from every other style in the NFL.

From the Bears’ cover 2, to the Eagle’s wide 9, to the Texans’ one-gap, to the Patriots’ hybrid, to countless other 4-3 and 3-4 teams, the name of the game is very simple for the defensive line: get upfield. The players might line-up at different points along the defensive line. They might be bigger (3-4 nose tackles), smaller (cover 2 passrushers), ends, tackles, or rushbackers. But they all want to disrupt the pocket and get upfield.

Not so with the two-gap.

Think of this as your typical offensive line:

(C Gap) RT (B Gap) RG (A Gap) C (A Gap) LG (B Gap) LT (C Gap)

This is a comprehensive listing of the “gaps” in an offensive line. The “A” gap is between the center and guard, the “B” gap is between the guard and tackle. Most defenses in the NFL tell their defensive lineman to shoot a gap, which would either penetrate the pocket or at least disrupt the offensive line’s blocking assignments. Some defenses give a defensive tackle the job of occupying blockers, or “two-gapping,” meaning they focus less on getting upfield, and focus more with minding two gaps and clogging the lanes, offensive lineman be damned.

This two-gap strategy asks every single one of its defensive lineman to do exactly that. It turns the traditional role of the defensive lineman from pocket invader to space occupying, gap eater. There’s a reason young bucks like Tyson Jackson and Dontari Poe take a long time to adjust to it, the techniques involved in this are completely different than the simple “get up and go” of more attack-oriented defensive lines. (By my count, only four other teams in the NFL share this defensive style: Ravens, Jets, Dolphins, and now the Colts.)

The complexity of all of this aside, there is one thing needed to make this work. One thing needed to turn this defensive style, unique as it is, into an offense-wrecking machine:

The defensive linemen must occupy offensive linemen.

It’s that simple. It’s the first domino for the entire scheme to make sense. If these defensive linemen can force offensive lineman to double-team them, it frees up the linebackers behind them and to their flanks to make plays. If Glenn Dorsey and Jackson play their roles properly, Tamba Hali and Justin Houston are battling tight ends and fullbacks en route to the QB, rather than massive, athletic offensive tackles. If Poe can demand maximum attention in the interior of the line, it allows Derrick Johnson to flow to the ball freely. It therefore cuts down on the amount of time secondaries have to cover receivers. It allows the safeties to clamp down open spaces faster. The key to it all is that the defensive linemen must absorb multiple offensive linemen every play.

The 2012 Preseason Chiefs Defensive Line

But it’s a delicate ecosystem. If the defensive linemen do not regularly command double- and triple-teams, then the defensive line is getting no penetration and the linebackers are battling far too much on every play. Passing lanes will be bigger, and running the ball gets easier. In other words, if the defensive line can’t work, nothing works.

That’s what the 2012 preseason is teaching us. And if the problems we’re experiencing here carry over to the regular season, it may spell either the failure of this defense in Kansas City, or even worse, it may suggest that this defense is officially too antiquated to exist anymore in the modern NFL.

But during the first preseason game hosting the Arizona Cardinals, this was not a problem. The Cardinals bought the just-now-gaining-traction notion that Dorsey and Jackson are formidable talents worthy of maximum attention, and saw our nose tackle lineup of Anthony Toribio (fairly big), Dontari Poe (huge), and Jerrell Powe (very large) and convinced themselves that double-teaming would be a necessity.

We slaughtered them. First-team, second-team, third-team. Our rushbackers racked up sacks by the quarter, the Cards couldn’t run the ball, it was glorious. It was the true example of (a.) how talented our defense is, and (b.) how this scheme can maximize teamwork to create as hostile an environment for offenses as there can be in this league.

The Rams, too, tried taking on our defensive linemen two-at-a-time for much of the first half of the Chiefs second preseason game in St. Louis. The result was a pretty fair degree of success; despite the box score, the Rams had to convert two fourth downs to score their two touchdowns. The few runs broken off by Steven Jackson were anomolies of unusually missed assignments. The base lineup of Jackson, Toribio, and Dorsey were again a bit too much for the Rams’ offensive front to handle.

The second half of the Rams game, however, is where everything took a turn.

With a second-team defensive line setup of Ropati Pitoitua, Poe, and Amon Gordon, the Rams offense decided to try an experiment: what if we just didn’t double team them at all, ever?

The results were disasterous and frustrating to watch. The Rams single-teamed all three defensive lineman for their time on the field, and constantly launched both of their guards into the Chiefs linebackers (who were already struggling to begin with). Disasterously, none of the three players, with the rare exception of Gordon, were able to free themselves from their blockers, rarely ever being able to clog anything, and runners were frequently breaking into the second level as linebackers struggled to come off their blocks.

The Rams didn’t even make a pretense of it. They understood our depth and speed on the outside, so they ran right down our throats for the first few drives, to the visible frustration of players like Poe.

In the passing game, again, none of the linemen were double-teamed. All rushbackers were snagged by tackles before they could ever get into a serious move, and blitzers were easily absorbed by whomever the Rams kept in the backfield. By stymying our linemen with one blocker, the Rams opened everything up — and shut us down.

The Seahawks, perhaps noticing this on tape, decided that they’d repeat the same formula, this time against our starters, with consistently positive results. The Seahawks simply took the risk, figuring they had no shot if they had to double-team our 1′s. They figured it would be better to gamble on the chance the defensive line would disrupt them in one-on-one’s, while banking on the fact that they probably wouldn’t.

There were a few instances in short yardage where the offensive line felt the need to double players like Dontari Poe, and virtually every time the Chiefs made them pay. But for the vast majority of the first half, the Seahawks simply ignored double-teaming, which freed up LT Russell Okung to snag Hali on the edge, and allowed the guards to assault our linebackers and safeties in the run game.

There lies a fundamental flaw here: teams are starting to simply refuse doubling our defensive linemen. If that happens, neither of our starting ends (Dorsey and Jackson) have proven able to disengage and punish offenses for their lack of respect. Toribio’s ability to demand double teams has weakened considerably in light of his injury, and Dontari Poe still has miles to go before he can harness that ability.

Only third string NT Jerrell Powe has really shown the power and burst necessary to command double teams, but if teams think their best shot is just going one-on-one with everybody, it almost doesn’t matter who you put out there. Teams will continue to gamble that your linemen won’t adjust, and the entire defense will risk exposure as a result.

Is the problem with our players? Is it with the scheme? That answer is not yet clear.

What is clear is that this has been a Jekyll and Hyde defense all preseason, and it’s likely to stay that way if Romeo Crennel can’t force offenses to respect his defensive line.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2012/08/29/the-fatal-flaw-in-romeo-crennels-defense/

crazycoffey
08-30-2012, 12:09 AM
Your mom's got a two gap. What up!

ChiefsNow
08-30-2012, 01:08 AM
In a way this makes me feel better. They were taking advantage of our rookie. He won't be a rookie forever. When he catches on, Look out. And I am talking this year.

Phobia
08-30-2012, 01:20 AM
I saw that wall-o-text and the immediate launch into x's and o's and figured I'd never make it through more than a couple paragraphs because I'm completely ADD. But this is well-written. I don't know that I agree 100% but I'll definitely take note tonight.

mdchiefsfan
08-30-2012, 01:20 AM
In a way this makes me feel better. They were taking advantage of our rookie. He won't be a rookie forever. When he catches on, Look out. And I am talking this year.

Not really. They are taking advantage of our DEs by not double teaming them. Our DEs need to be able to get push in the event that they are in these situations.

B_Ambuehl
08-30-2012, 01:38 AM
That article was written by someone that really doesn't understand the defensive scheme or offensive blocking assignments, but the basic premise is roughly accurate. Moreso that style of 3-4 could be considered somewhat outdated, and not so much because we have bad talent. It's a conservative defense that doesn't beat itself, but but its design really isn't set up to wreck opposing offenses either.

T-post Tom
08-30-2012, 01:45 AM
That article was written by someone that really doesn't understand the defensive scheme or offensive blocking assignments, but the basic premise is roughly accurate. Moreso that style of 3-4 could be considered somewhat outdated, and not so much because we have bad talent. It's a conservative defense that doesn't beat itself, but but its design really isn't set up to wreck opposing offenses either.

What part of the 3-4 scheme doesn't the author understand?

nstygma
08-30-2012, 03:11 AM
i stopped at utiliting

B_Ambuehl
08-30-2012, 03:44 AM
What part of the 3-4 scheme doesn't the author understand?

Well for one their are a lot more variabilities in what the down lineman do than he went into. It helps to better understand offensive blocking assignments. You'll rarely if ever see all 3 down lineman in a 3-4 getting double teamed on any given running play.

Just because a defensive lineman is getting double teamed doesn't make him a bad-ass in the offenses eyes, and just because he's being single blocked doesn't mean he's a wuss.

It's just the way offensive blocking schemes are drawn up.

A defensive lineman at the point of attack will generally draw a double team whether he's any good or not - particularly if they line up anywhere inside the tackles. Generally they'll be a double team at the point of attack, then one of the o lineman will slide to the linebacker. Good linebackers negate this by running thru the hole before the O-lineman can slide off and block them. Steeler linebackers always put on a clinic on this. They get in the backfield before the O lineman can get on them. The Chiefs O-line under Vermeil was GREAT at sliding off point of attack blocks and getting to the linebackers.

I doubt if the tidbit on the seahawks blocking strategy had anything to do with the chiefs defense, or their personnel, but was just the way their blocking assignments were drawn up based on the look the chiefs front showed based on alignment. When he was in Denver McDouche would often start games doing odd things with his o lineman on running plays to confuse a defense and get some easy yards, but generally speaking the assignments for any given play don't change from opponent to opponent near as much as what a lot of people think.

Chiefs=Good
08-30-2012, 04:47 AM
I would also like to add that our defense does not often get to dictate if a lt has to take on hali. Hes cleary out best passs rusher and more often than not will see a lt.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 05:41 AM
"The defensive linemen must occupy offensive linemen"

No.

If it were stated "At it's worst, the defensive linemen must occupy offensive linemen" then I'd let it go.

"If Glenn Dorsey and Jackson play their roles properly, Tamba Hali and Justin Houston are battling tight ends and fullbacks en route to the QB, rather than massive, athletic offensive tackles"

If this were all that was required of the DL and the Chiefs rushed 2 OLB's from that, it'd mean this defense has a 5 man pass rush, which is just plain bullshit.

This is a defense with a 3 man line. A 3 man defensive line. Get that, folks. Keep it.

During run plays, these linemen are required to stop then run by clogging gaps, and if they get double teamed, they are still supposed to get off the block and make the play. During pass situations these DL make pressure and sack the QB. See Leonard Marshall, RDE/NYG and R Seymour, RDE/Pats. Hell, look up the stats on all those DL and you will see they could get after the QB.

If you have good players that can handle these positions, you will see any one of these linemen move up field and make the play behind the LOS, a tackle for a loss.

The only difference in this style is that your DL is expected to do with 3 men what other teams do with 4. Really, it is that simple from the front of the defense. Of course, we rarely see a DL in this defense that is a known pass rusher because it takes a real special player for this to happen. Like this guy;

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FAABWqhNvtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

8th year player Leonard Marshall, RDE and sack maniac in this defense. ALL 3 DL collapse the pocket forcing Montana to scramble. ROLB Lawrence Taylor was lined up LOLB during this play and he releases TE Brent Jones while playing the QB scramble, but the pressure came straight up the middle from those 3 DL.

This is not a sub package but the base 34 NYG defense -- the exact same defense the Chiefs currently run.

Your ROLB is your blitzer. He rushes the pass play and will also fall back in pass coverage. It just depends on the game situation. During this NYG play, LT was assigned the QB spy. He waited for Joe to make his move and then he made his move toward Montana, but whiffed and Marshall caught Montana from behind. But note where Marshall came from -- he was 5 yards deep into the backfield when he fell down and got back up to make this tackle.

You need the right players for this defense. Then it works real well. Until then, the excuses for this DL will continue. They are excuses, not strategies like this guy suggests.

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 06:02 AM
I think it's funny when fans think they know defensive player responsibility on every down. Heck, they don't even always know what their responsibility is at times (see blown coverage in Seattle last week).

“Back when we drafted him, I mentioned that he might have more of an impact as a third-down player than a first- and second-down player because the techniques that we use on first and second are so different than what he has been used to,’’ coach Romeo Crennel said. “On third down, they’re more like what he was doing in college. He showed some flashes that he could do some things, particularly in the one-on-one situation, so that’s why we put him there in that pass-rush area.’’

That was Crennel's statement yesterday. From his statement, KC DL might not two gap on known passing downs.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 06:14 AM
You can't define Romeo's system as easily is this guy tries to. I understand it a little bit but, it's not black and white. In the last couple of games we continually rushed 5. The three down linemen and the two OLBs. We were trying to get one on one match ups all game. Again, it was very vanilla and Romeo was trying to do this.

In the first game against Arizona, we showed some things. We blitzed the MLBs and the safeties quite a bit. Other than that, we ran a different blitz maybe twice a game against Seattle and St. Louis.

Here's the basis of his defense in a nutshell. On running plays, you want the d-linemen to take up two guys, shed tackles, and make the stop. Mostly, you want them to take two so the MLB or safeties can make the tackle. The OLBs either come around the back to make the tackle or they stay put.

On Passing downs, their job is to make sure the OLB gets one vs. one blocking. That might mean taking two blockers and it might mean taking one. If we call a play that where the MLBs, safties, or corners blitz, the d-linemen's goal is to occupy as many blockers as possible so that they may run freely at the QB.

This guy is wrong. No one has figured jack shit out. We just aren't showing anything and the coaches are making it tough on our players.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 06:16 AM
You guys realize that KC doesn't often 2 gap on passing downs right?

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 06:25 AM
The rule to remember is that the object is to get the OLBs one on one in passing downs.

If we aren't rushing the anyone else and it is 5 vs. 5 (3 d-linemen and 2 OLBs), 90% of the time the d-line's job is to rush the QB.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 06:31 AM
The rule to remember is that the object is to get the OLBs one on one in passing downs.

If we aren't rushing the anyone else and it is 5 vs. 5 (3 d-linemen and 2 OLBs), 90% of the time the d-line's job is to rush the QB.

We're not in our base 34 on 'passing downs'.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 06:43 AM
We're not in our base 34 on 'passing downs'.

Sometimes we are. Again, you can't define what Romeo is doing. Against Atlanta, you will probably hardly see the 3-4 at all. Also, passing downs aren't only on 3rd down. If they were, they wouldn't call them passing downs. For example, 2nd and 11is a passing down more often than not

keg in kc
08-30-2012, 06:46 AM
The only "fatal flaw" I see is basing the entire article on something that happened in the second half of a preseason game, as if that's somehow an indication of anything.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 07:00 AM
wouldn't it be easier to send everyone after the QB and be alert to stop the RB on their way?
just sayin'.

Deberg_1990
08-30-2012, 07:03 AM
They fatal flaw of this defense is we need more talented defensive linemen and its shame we spent such high picks and money on ones who underperform.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 07:07 AM
They fatal flaw of this defense is we need more talented defensive linemen and its shame we spent such high picks and money on ones who underperform.

maybe it's the LSU connection?

jspchief
08-30-2012, 07:22 AM
You guys realize that KC doesn't often 2 gap on passing downs right?The problem is every down is a passing down in today's NFL. If you're waiting until 3rd and long to put in your sub package that's effective against the pass, you're going to see your D get torched by 1st and 2nd down passes.

It happened to us a lot last year. I'm not going to pretend to know what Crennel is asking his guys to do on individual plays. What I do know is the effectiveness of our edge rushers is greatly diminished because the interior line rarely collapses the pocket. How often do we see Hali getting around his guy only to have the QB step up into a nice pocket to complete his pass? And not only does it make Hali's job tougher, it makes the QB's job easier. When the opposing QB doesn't have to worry about what's directly in front of him, it makes it easier to focus downfield.

Whether it's by design, or the front 3 aren't getting it done, the current incarnation of our defense isn't working very well. Something has to change to make that pocket a less comfortable place for the QB, and we can't just rely on changing it in obvious passing downs.

King_Chief_Fan
08-30-2012, 07:41 AM
They fatal flaw of this defense is we need more talented defensive linemen and its shame we spent such high picks and money on ones who underperform.

yup...pre-season look at the D says uh oh.

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 07:56 AM
Right now the fatal flaw is injuries, lack of depth and a small amount of ganja.

There's actually a chance that a guy who hasn't played football in 3 years will be starting at CB week 1 against the Falcons.

thabear04
08-30-2012, 09:30 AM
That article was written by someone that really doesn't understand the defensive scheme or offensive blocking assignments, but the basic premise is roughly accurate. Moreso that style of 3-4 could be considered somewhat outdated, and not so much because we have bad talent. It's a conservative defense that doesn't beat itself, but but its design really isn't set up to wreck opposing offenses either.

It was by Andrew Crocker from Arrowhead Addict

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 09:39 AM
didn't read that whole dam thing, but i assume ....


that i agree with disliking the fact that a 2-gap 3-4 scheme basically sacrifices 3 guys to make the other 8 guys better. It's like playing 11 vrs 8 and it seems to put the defense at a disadvantage.

from the snap of the ball on each play, you know you aren't getting a pass rush from 3 or the 4 guys on the DLine. Big sacrifice.

xztop12
08-30-2012, 09:40 AM
interesting post it highlights why its so imperative that we get good front 3... which im not sure we have now.

Frosty
08-30-2012, 09:44 AM
The Seahawks, perhaps noticing this on tape, decided that they’d repeat the same formula, this time against our starters, with consistently positive results.

Just wanted to point out that Seattle really didn't face the Chiefs' starting d-line. Jackson barely played (first series only, iirc), Toribio went out early with an ankle injury and Dorsey went out later with a knee.

It does show that either the backups don't know the scheme completely yet or just aren't very talented.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 09:47 AM
You guys realize that KC doesn't often 2 gap on passing downs right?

If you are referring to the 2 DL alignments -- yes, those guys are two gapping at the snap. If the QB is in his gap with no blocker then ya, the DL is expected to shoot and tackle. But not leaving his gaps.

Also, Romeo only cooks up these 2 DL schemes when he needs to. Meaning, when he doesn't have the players he needs to just run base 3 DL, he will replace a DL player with a LB or DB etc.

But that is not how this defense normally lines up.

Buckweath
08-30-2012, 10:15 AM
??? This Chiefs defense was the 4th best defense (without Berry) for the second half of last season and you come here and say the defense has a fatal flaw.. I expect great things from this defense. I really hope it's a top 5 unit and at worst it is a top 10 unit IMO.

Pawnmower
08-30-2012, 10:26 AM
Essentially all that needs to happen for this 'weakness' to be a strength is the defensive lineman disengage with the single-team block and MAKE A ****ING PLAY. (if the 'weakness' is that we get single covered)....Shoudn't a PLAYMAKER be able to bust a single team?

It's really no different than when we were playing a 4-3, in a way....we have NO ****ING PRESSURE on the passer most of the time....

Especially with Hali being held constantly and no one ****ing calling it.....

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 10:30 AM
??? This Chiefs defense was the 4th best defense (without Berry) for the second half of last season and you come here and say the defense has a fatal flaw.. I expect great things from this defense. I really hope it's a top 5 unit and at worst it is a top 10 unit IMO.

4 of the last 5 games were against Hanie, Sanchez, Palmer and Tebow - not exactly murderers row of QBs.

Priest31kc
08-30-2012, 10:31 AM
Once we get Flowers & Lewis back...we should be fine.

We looked like total shit in the preseason and the first couple of games last year defensively...and then we were one of the best defenses in the NFL the 2nd half of the year w/out Berry....

Yes, its concerning that our defense has games ever since Romeo got here that we look like the worst defensive unit in the game...but we're not. Every defense has bad games, and those are the games where you need a QB to win it for you.

We were what, 11th & 12th in yards allowed the last 2 years? I see us around there again this year. We lost Carr, but thats it. Routt as our #2 is not that huge of a difference, and it will not cause us to be any worse IMO.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 10:33 AM
4 of the last 5 games were against Hanie, Sanchez, Palmer and Tebow - not exactly murderers row of QBs.

Ryan will kill us if we sit back and let him. I would feel much better with Flowers in there but, we gotta knock the shit out of Ryan. That's the bottom line. We gotta run the ball, control the clock, and put pressure on Ryan.

Canofbier
08-30-2012, 10:33 AM
This has been an educational thread.

OctoberFart
08-30-2012, 10:33 AM
If you don't have absolute stud players 2 gap D's will allow offenses to get huge plays as soon as someone guesses on a gap.

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 10:33 AM
If you are referring to the 2 DL alignments -- yes, those guys are two gapping at the snap. If the QB is in his gap with no blocker then ya, the DL is expected to shoot and tackle. But not leaving his gaps.

Also, Romeo only cooks up these 2 DL schemes when he needs to. Meaning, when he doesn't have the players he needs to just run base 3 DL, he will replace a DL player with a LB or DB etc.

But that is not how this defense normally lines up.

As soon as the D-line recognizes pass they are rushing the passer. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about..as usual.

And Romeo only plays sub packages when he doesn't have good enough players to stay in his base package???? facepalm

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 10:38 AM
Ryan will kill us if we sit back and let him. I would feel much better with Flowers in there but, we gotta knock the shit out of Ryan. That's the bottom line. We gotta run the ball, control the clock, and put pressure on Ryan.

Yup. Control the ground, and rush the passer. That's what we gotta do.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 10:42 AM
Essentially all that needs to happen for this 'weakness' to be a strength is the defensive lineman disengage with the single-team block and MAKE A ****ING PLAY. (if the 'weakness' is that we get single covered)....Shoudn't a PLAYMAKER be able to bust a single team?

It's really no different than when we were playing a 4-3, in a way....we have NO ****ING PRESSURE on the passer most of the time....

Especially with Hali being held constantly and no one ****ing calling it.....
sure it's different

The defensive line don't get to attack with their first step. They deliberately have to engage the Oline to protect the linebackers. Most good pass rushing Dlineman live off the leverage and penetration they get off the first step.

It's way harder to beat an Olineman once you have already locked up with them.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2012, 10:55 AM
Crennel and his defense was exposed in the Baltimore playoff game... Enuff said.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 11:01 AM
Crennel and his defense was exposed in the Baltimore playoff game... Enuff said.

Really? The defense was good but they couldn't get off the field. The offense couldn't score.

Was RAC exposed or were the players exposed? Flowers gave up two catches and Carr gave up no catches. Flacco had to go the TEs. The linebackers got exposed and they were tired.

Mostly, the offense could do nothing.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 11:02 AM
Judging a team's scheme based upon preseason games is about as stupid as it gets.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2012, 11:05 AM
Really? The defense was good but they couldn't get off the field. The offense couldn't score.

Was RAC exposed or were the players exposed? Flowers gave up two catches and Carr gave up no catches. Flacco had to go the TEs. The linebackers got exposed and they were tired.

Mostly, the offense could do nothing.

Yeah really... The simple fact that they ignored Heap all day long. They couldnt stop the run, they couldnt stop Heap. Flacco was untouched most of the day...

The defense couldnt stop anything... Anytime they were in 3rd and whatever. Flacco would just dump it to a wide open Heap....

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 11:05 AM
The D is way too inconsistent.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Judging a team's scheme based upon preseason games is about as stupid as it gets.
i don't think people are judging it by this preseason.

I think they are judging it by the scheme itself and this preseason is just another example of the weakness of that scheme.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2012, 11:08 AM
The D is way too inconsistent.
They were, They barely had any 3 and outs... BMore controlled the DL all day...

As black bob said, they couldnt stop a run away baby stroller, therefore they couldnt get off the field.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 11:10 AM
??? This Chiefs defense was the 4th best defense (without Berry) for the second half of last season and you come here and say the defense has a fatal flaw.. I expect great things from this defense. I really hope it's a top 5 unit and at worst it is a top 10 unit IMO.

Apparently, he didn't get the memo about how this defense has been front and center in winning 5 championships.

Blackbob is correct -- this defense will look tons better when the regular season is in progress. They are indeed a top 15 defense. The scheme, coaching and play calling is going to transform these losers once again.

But, like Tex said, it won't be a top 5 defense until these players can do the things they are being asked to do during pre season. You can mask weakness with your play calls and scheme -- your coaching. But you can't fool the good teams. They will expose your players.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 11:12 AM
Your linebackers should look awesome in this scheme. Check that ... the linebackers HAVE to look awesome in this scheme. If you going to sacrifice 3 Dlineman to protect the linebackers they better dam well kick ass.

Hali has looked great
DJ has been very productive
Belcher hasn't been good enough imo
Houston has shown promise

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 11:12 AM
Judging a team's scheme based upon preseason games is about as stupid as it gets.

I think the preseason performance of the first string on below-average teams is indicative of problems they might have in the regular season.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 11:15 AM
the biggest problem with Romeo's defense is they're going up against Cassel everyday.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Your linebackers should look awesome in this scheme. Check that ... the linebackers HAVE to look awesome in this scheme. If you going to sacrifice 3 Dlineman to protect the linebackers they better dam well kick ass.

Hali has looked great
DJ has been very productive
Belcher hasn't been good enough imo
Houston has shown promise

I think you're underselling DJ quite a bit. His biggest problem was not being disciplined. And he's completely fixed that.

Outside of that, I absolutely agree.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 11:15 AM
I think the preseason performance of the first string on below-average teams is indicative of problems they might have in the regular season.

Was the Lions 4-0 preseason indicative of their 0-16 season? Teams aren't game planning in the preseason. Players are trying new things in the preseason. Weak players aren't being supported in the preseason.

It's the fucking preseason.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 11:18 AM
I think you're underselling DJ quite a bit. His biggest problem was not being disciplined. And he's completely fixed that.

Outside of that, I absolutely agree.should i have dropped to my knees and sucked his virtual dick?

I said he has been 'very productive' ... what more do you want?


nlm

Reerun_KC
08-30-2012, 11:19 AM
the biggest problem with Romeo's defense is they're going up against Cassel everyday.
Yet they still look like ass...

WTF?

Lightrise
08-30-2012, 11:30 AM
by Andrew Crocker (ArrowheadAddict.com)

Having been in this business for something approaching two decades, Kansas City Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel has a signature defensive scheme that has been called many things. It is called reactive. It’s called bend-but-don’t-break. It’s called technique-oriented. It’s been praised by supporters to be the ultimate team-approach to successful defense, utiliting the ability of all eleven defenders to elevate the play of all their teammates. It’s been criticized by detractors as being unaggressive, more concerned with preventing big plays than promoting big stops, playing on your heels instead of pinning your ears back.

The Two-Gap

However you term it, it truly is a unique defensive style that stands in stark contrast to almost the entirety of other NFL defensive schemes, and fewer have promoted it more successfully than Crennel.

His style is termed the “two-gap 3-4″ defense. At its base, that means you have three lineman with their hands in the dirt, typically two defensive ends that are big and strong enough to take on offensive tackles and tall enough to deter passes by the quarterback in the pocket (think of Tyson Jackson’s prototypical 6’4″, 296 lbs frame), and a humongous, bulky nose tackle that is built for getting low, absorbing punishment and administering immediate push against a hopelessly outsized center (think of Jerrell Powe’s prototypical 6’2″, 331 lbs frame). Then you have four linebackers: two passrushers on the edge (one who is a more one-dimensional pocket assaulter, and the other who is a swiss army knife of abilities), and two in the middle (one who is more of a line of scrimmage attacker, and the other who is more coverage-oriented). This earns Crennel’s defense the “3-4″ moniker, for those who didn’t already know.

But roughly half the teams in the NFL play with a 3-4 arrangment. It’s Crennel’s two-gap approach is what truly sets this defense apart from every other style in the NFL.

From the Bears’ cover 2, to the Eagle’s wide 9, to the Texans’ one-gap, to the Patriots’ hybrid, to countless other 4-3 and 3-4 teams, the name of the game is very simple for the defensive line: get upfield. The players might line-up at different points along the defensive line. They might be bigger (3-4 nose tackles), smaller (cover 2 passrushers), ends, tackles, or rushbackers. But they all want to disrupt the pocket and get upfield.

Not so with the two-gap.

Think of this as your typical offensive line:

(C Gap) RT (B Gap) RG (A Gap) C (A Gap) LG (B Gap) LT (C Gap)

This is a comprehensive listing of the “gaps” in an offensive line. The “A” gap is between the center and guard, the “B” gap is between the guard and tackle. Most defenses in the NFL tell their defensive lineman to shoot a gap, which would either penetrate the pocket or at least disrupt the offensive line’s blocking assignments. Some defenses give a defensive tackle the job of occupying blockers, or “two-gapping,” meaning they focus less on getting upfield, and focus more with minding two gaps and clogging the lanes, offensive lineman be damned.

This two-gap strategy asks every single one of its defensive lineman to do exactly that. It turns the traditional role of the defensive lineman from pocket invader to space occupying, gap eater. There’s a reason young bucks like Tyson Jackson and Dontari Poe take a long time to adjust to it, the techniques involved in this are completely different than the simple “get up and go” of more attack-oriented defensive lines. (By my count, only four other teams in the NFL share this defensive style: Ravens, Jets, Dolphins, and now the Colts.)

The complexity of all of this aside, there is one thing needed to make this work. One thing needed to turn this defensive style, unique as it is, into an offense-wrecking machine:

The defensive linemen must occupy offensive linemen.

It’s that simple. It’s the first domino for the entire scheme to make sense. If these defensive linemen can force offensive lineman to double-team them, it frees up the linebackers behind them and to their flanks to make plays. If Glenn Dorsey and Jackson play their roles properly, Tamba Hali and Justin Houston are battling tight ends and fullbacks en route to the QB, rather than massive, athletic offensive tackles. If Poe can demand maximum attention in the interior of the line, it allows Derrick Johnson to flow to the ball freely. It therefore cuts down on the amount of time secondaries have to cover receivers. It allows the safeties to clamp down open spaces faster. The key to it all is that the defensive linemen must absorb multiple offensive linemen every play.

The 2012 Preseason Chiefs Defensive Line

But it’s a delicate ecosystem. If the defensive linemen do not regularly command double- and triple-teams, then the defensive line is getting no penetration and the linebackers are battling far too much on every play. Passing lanes will be bigger, and running the ball gets easier. In other words, if the defensive line can’t work, nothing works.

That’s what the 2012 preseason is teaching us. And if the problems we’re experiencing here carry over to the regular season, it may spell either the failure of this defense in Kansas City, or even worse, it may suggest that this defense is officially too antiquated to exist anymore in the modern NFL.

But during the first preseason game hosting the Arizona Cardinals, this was not a problem. The Cardinals bought the just-now-gaining-traction notion that Dorsey and Jackson are formidable talents worthy of maximum attention, and saw our nose tackle lineup of Anthony Toribio (fairly big), Dontari Poe (huge), and Jerrell Powe (very large) and convinced themselves that double-teaming would be a necessity.

We slaughtered them. First-team, second-team, third-team. Our rushbackers racked up sacks by the quarter, the Cards couldn’t run the ball, it was glorious. It was the true example of (a.) how talented our defense is, and (b.) how this scheme can maximize teamwork to create as hostile an environment for offenses as there can be in this league.

The Rams, too, tried taking on our defensive linemen two-at-a-time for much of the first half of the Chiefs second preseason game in St. Louis. The result was a pretty fair degree of success; despite the box score, the Rams had to convert two fourth downs to score their two touchdowns. The few runs broken off by Steven Jackson were anomolies of unusually missed assignments. The base lineup of Jackson, Toribio, and Dorsey were again a bit too much for the Rams’ offensive front to handle.

The second half of the Rams game, however, is where everything took a turn.

With a second-team defensive line setup of Ropati Pitoitua, Poe, and Amon Gordon, the Rams offense decided to try an experiment: what if we just didn’t double team them at all, ever?

The results were disasterous and frustrating to watch. The Rams single-teamed all three defensive lineman for their time on the field, and constantly launched both of their guards into the Chiefs linebackers (who were already struggling to begin with). Disasterously, none of the three players, with the rare exception of Gordon, were able to free themselves from their blockers, rarely ever being able to clog anything, and runners were frequently breaking into the second level as linebackers struggled to come off their blocks.

The Rams didn’t even make a pretense of it. They understood our depth and speed on the outside, so they ran right down our throats for the first few drives, to the visible frustration of players like Poe.

In the passing game, again, none of the linemen were double-teamed. All rushbackers were snagged by tackles before they could ever get into a serious move, and blitzers were easily absorbed by whomever the Rams kept in the backfield. By stymying our linemen with one blocker, the Rams opened everything up — and shut us down.

The Seahawks, perhaps noticing this on tape, decided that they’d repeat the same formula, this time against our starters, with consistently positive results. The Seahawks simply took the risk, figuring they had no shot if they had to double-team our 1′s. They figured it would be better to gamble on the chance the defensive line would disrupt them in one-on-one’s, while banking on the fact that they probably wouldn’t.

There were a few instances in short yardage where the offensive line felt the need to double players like Dontari Poe, and virtually every time the Chiefs made them pay. But for the vast majority of the first half, the Seahawks simply ignored double-teaming, which freed up LT Russell Okung to snag Hali on the edge, and allowed the guards to assault our linebackers and safeties in the run game.

There lies a fundamental flaw here: teams are starting to simply refuse doubling our defensive linemen. If that happens, neither of our starting ends (Dorsey and Jackson) have proven able to disengage and punish offenses for their lack of respect. Toribio’s ability to demand double teams has weakened considerably in light of his injury, and Dontari Poe still has miles to go before he can harness that ability.

Only third string NT Jerrell Powe has really shown the power and burst necessary to command double teams, but if teams think their best shot is just going one-on-one with everybody, it almost doesn’t matter who you put out there. Teams will continue to gamble that your linemen won’t adjust, and the entire defense will risk exposure as a result.

Is the problem with our players? Is it with the scheme? That answer is not yet clear.

What is clear is that this has been a Jekyll and Hyde defense all preseason, and it’s likely to stay that way if Romeo Crennel can’t force offenses to respect his defensive line.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2012/08/29/the-fatal-flaw-in-romeo-crennels-defense/

This isn't good. Frankly the Rams picking up on this was very smart and likely to spread throughout the league. It's early, but for the scheme I say the gig is up.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Yet they still look like ass...

WTF?

it's misleading them.
they think they're really good...
then they face a really good QB and it's lights out.

Reerun_KC
08-30-2012, 11:34 AM
it's misleading them.
they think they're really good...
then they face a really good QB and it's lights out.

You actually believe what you are saying?

vailpass
08-30-2012, 11:34 AM
Your mom's got a two gap. What up!

LMAO

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 11:39 AM
Yeah really... The simple fact that they ignored Heap all day long. They couldnt stop the run, they couldnt stop Heap. Flacco was untouched most of the day...

The defense couldnt stop anything... Anytime they were in 3rd and whatever. Flacco would just dump it to a wide open Heap....

There were sacks -- Belcher had two sacks. That game was close until late 3rd qtr. The offense was mostly to blame for that loss. I know Heap tore them up, but he didn't run it up on them. It was 13 - 7 late 3rd qtr. Once Jamaal got pounced and I believe he was hurt, the whole team eventually wilted. It just took a qtr for it to happen.

They got beat by the RB and TE, the underneath plays you all hate the Chiefs to use. Here's a good breakdown video;

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81d9f01c/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Chiefs-recap

Note what was said about that Ravens defensive line and how those BFF's get in there and clog it all up during run plays, but they are quick enough they can create pressure and TFL's. They are two gappers that few teams can handle. That is not the case in KC.


And here's the game highlights;

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81d92589/Wild-card-Playoffs-Ravens-vs-Chiefs-highlights

Notice how it was certain breakdowns that lost this game. A missed assignment by DJ on RB Rice for the TD, a botched block by Casey W caused a fourth and 1 hand off to Jamaal to go negative, turnovers galore.

Bottom line was as the media said -- they were outmatched by an experienced, better football team.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 11:49 AM
And here's the game highlights;

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81d92589/Wild-card-Playoffs-Ravens-vs-Chiefs-highlights
.

Good post man. Ultimately, they were just to experienced.

Also, anyone who says Waters sucked in 2010 should watch him in those highlights....

man, I can't wait to watch the real deal.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
You actually believe what you are saying?

i'm so confused, you got a Prozac?ROFL

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Good post man. Ultimately, they were just to experienced.

Also, anyone who says Waters sucked in 2010 should watch him in those highlights....

man, I can't wait to watch the real deal.

It will only take about 15 minutes to completely kill your enthusiasm too...about the time you realize that this is Buffalo 2011 all over again...

Chief Roundup
08-30-2012, 11:59 AM
They fatal flaw of this defense is we need more talented defensive linemen and its shame we spent such high picks and money on ones who underperform.

That is the reason that both of our DE were in the top 10 in the league last year IIRC.

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 12:02 PM
"The Seahawks, perhaps noticing this on tape, decided that they’d repeat the same formula, this time against our starters, with consistently positive results."

"But for the vast majority of the first half, the Seahawks simply ignored double-teaming, which freed up LT Russell Okung to snag Hali on the edge, and allowed the guards to assault our linebackers and safeties in the run game."

This is where I call bullshit. Tyson Jackson may not have played more than 2 series and Toribio went down early.

For the first 3 Seattle possessions (not including Wilson scrambles) the Seahawks rushed the ball 12 times for 36 yards, or 3.0 ypc. That's good run D by the starters.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 12:03 PM
It will only take about 15 minutes to completely kill your enthusiasm too...about the time you realize that this is Buffalo 2011 all over again...

I would feel better with Flowers and Hali out there but, I think we will be prepared for Atlanta. Win or lose, I won't lose my enthusiasm. It's a long season.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 12:04 PM
For the first 3 Seattle possessions (not including Wilson scrambles) the Seahawks rushed the ball 12 times for 36 yards, or 3.0 ypc. That's good run D by the starters.

Exactly. :toast:

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 12:04 PM
This isn't good. Frankly the Rams picking up on this was very smart and likely to spread throughout the league. It's early, but for the scheme I say the gig is up.

Good lord. Yup. The gig is up. You're as dumb as the guy who wrote this.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:05 PM
I would feel better with Flowers and Hali out there but, I think we will be prepared for Atlanta. Win or lose, I won't lose my enthusiasm. It's a long season.

Even longer when they hold your hope right up to the point they get blown out in the first round of the playoffs.

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 12:05 PM
It will only take about 15 minutes to completely kill your enthusiasm too...about the time you realize that this is Buffalo 2011 all over again...

Is that what you're expecting??

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:07 PM
That is the reason that both of our DE were in the top 10 (against the run) in the league last year IIRC.

FYP

that is part of the schemem DE,NT,DE sacrifice rushing the passer to protect the linebackers and focus on defending the run.

In a 2-gap scheme the pass rush primarily comes from the linebackers.

ROLB(Hali) all the time
zone blitzing the passer for the rest


Since Crennel doesn't like to blitz much our pass rush lives and dies with Hali.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Is that what you're expecting??

Yep.

This team is built for it.

The league revolves around scoring points, and fast. So we do the opposite. Brilliant!

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 12:08 PM
Yep.

This team is built for it.

The league revolves around scoring points, and fast. So we do the opposite. Brilliant!

i think they kill us again as well.
they will score, we cant
SOS.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 12:09 PM
That is the reason that both of our DE were in the top 10 in the league last year IIRC.

In one catagory -- run defense.

This 34 defense scheme works, anyone saying it doesn't needs to spend more time with what it really looks like, not this crap being halfway done by a host of veteran players that never could pull their head out their dumb ass.

These players need to get it straight starting tonight:cuss::cuss::cuss: Go Chiefs:)

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Even longer when they hold your hope right up to the point they get blown out in the first round of the playoffs.

I disagree. I think we win a playoff game this year. We are due. I understand your "if I don't expect too much I won't get let down" approach. However, I think we will be good. I think you'll be the one let down when we lose the AFC Championship at home.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Yep.

This team is built for it.

The league revolves around scoring points, and fast. So we do the opposite. Brilliant!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand a thread about defense turns into an offensive bitch thread.

Brilliant!

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 12:12 PM
You guys are crazy. This is going to be the best offense we have had since 2003. On paper, it's a better all around offense. We aren't going to have problems scoring points this year.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:12 PM
I disagree. I think we win a playoff game this year. We are due. I understand your "if I don't expect too much I won't get let down" approach. However, I think we will be good. I think you'll be the one let down when we lose the AFC Championship at home.

ROFL

First of all, if we make it to the AFC Championship game, I'm not going to be disappointed.

This team isn't built to compete with top-flight offenses. Every defense, even vaunted ones like SF and Baltimore, have bad days. You can't win consistently in the NFL scoring less than 20 points a week.

Make no mistake about it, I don't ROOT for this team to lose. I just recognize that changes are, they will.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:14 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand a thread about defense turns into an offensive bitch thread.

Brilliant!

I'm not bitching about the offense.

I'm bitching about the whole TEAM.

In many ways, Romeo's defense is designed to bend but not break. That means they're going to be on the field a lot.

Combine that with an offense that specializes in the 3-and-out and you end up with a defense that simply CANNOT be top 10 - it's not mathematically or physically possible.

BigMeatballDave
08-30-2012, 12:15 PM
You guys are crazy. This is going to be the best offense we have had since 2003. On paper, it's a better all around offense. We aren't going to have problems scoring points this year.

It SHOULD be, but I have no faith in Cassel.

I was saying 10 wins.

I'm not sure about that now.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 12:15 PM
ROFL

First of all, if we make it to the AFC Championship game, I'm not going to be disappointed.

This team isn't built to compete with top-flight offenses. Every defense, even vaunted ones like SF and Baltimore, have bad days. You can't win consistently in the NFL scoring less than 20 points a week.

Make no mistake about it, I don't ROOT for this team to lose. I just recognize that changes are, they will.

If I am wrong, I will eat crow. KC's offense will be a top 5 offense. You, like many here, don't give Cassel enough credit and give too much credit to what you have seen in the preseason.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 12:16 PM
I disagree. I think we win a playoff game this year. We are due. I understand your "if I don't expect too much I won't get let down" approach. However, I think we will be good. I think you'll be the one let down when we lose the AFC Championship at home.

i hope you're right but just don't see it
Call me Stevie Wonder.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:16 PM
You guys are crazy. This is going to be the best offense we have had since 2003. On paper, it's a better all around offense. We aren't going to have problems scoring points this year.

Seriously.

To be the best offense we have had since 2003, they'd have to finish SECOND in the league in points scored. Hell, the 2006 offense was 6th in points and 1st in yards. This offense won't even come close to that.

I appreciate your optimism, I really do. It's been a long time since I've had much hope in this team.

But saying this will be the best offense since 2003 is just ridiculously absurd.

Chief Roundup
08-30-2012, 12:16 PM
FYP

that is part of the schemem DE,NT,DE sacrifice rushing the passer to protect the linebackers and focus on defending the run.

In a 2-gap scheme the pass rush primarily comes from the linebackers.

ROLB(Hali) all the time
zone blitzing the passer for the rest


Since Crennel doesn't like to blitz much our pass rush lives and dies with Hali.

In one catagory -- run defense.

This 34 defense scheme works, anyone saying it doesn't needs to spend more time with what it really looks like, not this crap being halfway done by a host of veteran players that never could pull their head out their dumb ass.

These players need to get it straight starting tonight:cuss::cuss::cuss: Go Chiefs:)

Yeah right since our DE's aren't asked to rush the passer they are doing exactly what they are suppose to do. If you all want our DL to rush the passer you just as well to forget it because that is not what they are asked or are suppose to do in RAC's defense.

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 12:17 PM
It SHOULD be, but I have no faith in Cassel.

I was saying 10 wins.

I'm not sure about that now.

So you're changing your tune because of two pre-season games?

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 12:19 PM
If I am wrong, I will eat crow. KC's offense will be a top 5 offense. You, like many here, don't give Cassel enough credit and give too much credit to what you have seen in the preseason.

The Chiefs are not going to be a top 5 offense.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-30-2012, 12:20 PM
I just love it when random slapdicks write like they know as much as a 5 team Super Bowl Champion on the defensive side of the ball.

whoman69
08-30-2012, 12:21 PM
Yep.

This team is built for it.

The league revolves around scoring points, and fast. So we do the opposite. Brilliant!

Scoring points and fast depends on having a QB that can do that. The only way we can compete with Cassel is to make sure that he doesn't need to be involved in the game to win. If we are going to fall behind, Cassel is useless. The Chiefs need to be a better version of the 2010 Chiefs. Mike Wallace has more downfield plays than the whole Chiefs team for the time he has been in the league. This QB just cannot go deep or look down the field. Its going to be a tall order. In order for Daboll to be successful with his underneath passing scheme, there has to be that threat that the defense can go over the top. Otherwise defenses are playing tight on those underneath routes. Cassel needs to get faster in his decision making. He needs to have the defense respect that he can do more.

The offense has to throw out half the playbook with Matt Cassel at QB. He is nearly as limited as Tebow. Its the unholy pact that you sign.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 12:21 PM
The Chiefs are not going to be a top 5 offense.

maybe top 25?

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 12:22 PM
The Chiefs are not going to be a top 5 offense.

I WISH, and I think they will be decent, but top 5 is going to be tough. REAL tough.

BigMeatballDave
08-30-2012, 12:22 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand a thread about defense turns into an offensive bitch thread.

Brilliant!Well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

If this offense can't produce points, and are continually 3 and out, its gonna be a long season.

beach tribe
08-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

If this offense can't produce points, and are continually 3 and out, its gonna be a long season.

If we play well against GB, you're going back to your 10 win prediction?

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:24 PM
If I am wrong, I will eat crow. KC's offense will be a top 5 offense. You, like many here, don't give Cassel enough credit and give too much credit to what you have seen in the preseason.

No need for you to eat crow.

Trust me, if I'm wrong, I'll not only eat 3 or 4 helping, but I'll do it with a smile on my face and ask for more.

I'm not basing anything on this preseason. I'm basing it on much, much more than that. As for my assessment of Cassel, I'm not going to give him credit for something just about any QB in the league can do.

You put a record-setting 6.0 ypc behind about 15 guys in this league and they make Cassel look like the career backup he is.

BigMeatballDave
08-30-2012, 12:24 PM
So you're changing your tune because of two pre-season games?

Kinda, which is out of character for me.

Mostly, its due to the realization of who the QB is.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:26 PM
In many ways, Romeo's defense is designed to bend but not break. That means they're going to be on the field a lot.

Combine that with an offense that specializes in the 3-and-out and you end up with a defense that simply CANNOT be top 10 - it's not mathematically or physically possible.
agreed

i guess they are hoping to win the game through turnovers. Don't commit them on offense, get them on defense.

We are dam close to playing martyball.

imo:

if you play bend,don't break on defense you need to play to get a lead on offense.

if you play 'don't turn the ball over' on offense then you need to play aggressive 'kill 'em all' on defense.



conservative on both sides generally just means 'slow death'

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:37 PM
agreed

i guess they are hoping to win the game through turnovers. Don't commit them on offense, get them on defense.

We are dam close to playing martyball.

imo:

if you play bend,don't break on defense you need to play to get a lead on offense.

if you play 'don't turn the ball over' on offense then you need to play aggressive 'kill 'em all' on defense.



conservative on both sides generally just means 'slow death'

Yep.

Some of Marty's best defenses weren't "shut down" defenses. They'd give up a couple of plays and then bam, INT return for 45 yards.

Buckweath
08-30-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm surprised some of you are down on the defense or think it will merely be an average unit this year. Didn't you watch Chiefs football for the second half of last season, playing against some poor QBs but also elite ones in Rodgers, Brady and Big Ben.

The weak part of the defense is the Dline IMO and this year I feel good with the rotation that we'll have and Dontari Poe is definitly a plus I think.

I personnally think the Seahawks and Chiefs defenses have a good chance to be top 5 this year.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:41 PM
Yep.

Some of Marty's best defenses weren't "shut down" defenses. They'd give up a couple of plays and then bam, INT return for 45 yards.
they were "kill the QB" defenses with solid,basic coverage behind the pass rush.

If our offense ever got a lead, even a 3 point lead, the opposing offenses got nervous and ended up shitting the bed.

If our offense couldn't get a lead then they just sat back and laughed as our shitty offense struggled to move the full length of the field, 3 yards at a time.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 12:41 PM
I WISH, and I think they will be decent, but top 5 is going to be tough. REAL tough.

If the Chiefs can just get into the 10-15 range, and the defense can stay around #12 or better, they should be good enough to get in the playoffs and go from there. Hell, given the schedules the AFCW are playing, even between 16-20 on offense might be enough if the defense can stay at that #12 or above.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-30-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm surprised some of you are down on the defense or think it will merely be an average unit this year. Didn't you watch Chiefs football for the second half of last season, playing against some poor QBs but also elite ones in Rodgers, Brady and Big Ben.

The weak part of the defense is the Dline IMO and this year I feel good with the rotation that we'll have and Dontari Poe is definitly a plus I think.

I personnally think the Seahawks and Chiefs defenses have a good chance to be top 5 this year.

You're talking about some of the same people that freak out if the D allows even a first down. Watching football kills all brain cells.

Micjones
08-30-2012, 12:46 PM
You're talking about some of the same people that freak out if the D allows even a first down. Watching football kills all brain cells.

I think people are generally positive about the defense.
Seeing them taken apart by Wilson last week was disheartening though.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:47 PM
If the Chiefs can just get into the 10-15 range, and the defense can stay around #12 or better, they should be good enough to get in the playoffs and go from there. Hell, given the schedules the AFCW are playing, even between 16-20 on offense might be enough if the defense can stay at that #12 or above.
that will be the key

if we are going to be average, then we are going to have to be average EVERYWHERE and play smart.

offense needs to be solid enough to score some points and give the defense a break

defense needs to be solid and get enough turnovers to give the offense good field position

special teams CAN'T screw up

the whole team has to play smart and know how to win


even then we will get demolished against most playoff level teams

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 12:52 PM
The problem is every down is a passing down in today's NFL. If you're waiting until 3rd and long to put in your sub package that's effective against the pass, you're going to see your D get torched by 1st and 2nd down passes.

It happened to us a lot last year. I'm not going to pretend to know what Crennel is asking his guys to do on individual plays. What I do know is the effectiveness of our edge rushers is greatly diminished because the interior line rarely collapses the pocket. How often do we see Hali getting around his guy only to have the QB step up into a nice pocket to complete his pass? And not only does it make Hali's job tougher, it makes the QB's job easier. When the opposing QB doesn't have to worry about what's directly in front of him, it makes it easier to focus downfield.

Whether it's by design, or the front 3 aren't getting it done, the current incarnation of our defense isn't working very well. Something has to change to make that pocket a less comfortable place for the QB, and we can't just rely on changing it in obvious passing downs.

You know, everyone said that last year and the year before and the defense was pretty good. 11th in points allowed. We just need to get more consistent and avoid those horrible games.

The struggles of the defense are consistently exaggerated around here simply because there are a lot of people had a previous bias against the 2 gap scheme. I know people who do that shit with every defense.

I will always say it: Schemes are over-rated. If you have the right players any scheme will work. Our base DL can't rush the passer, as you've said, and that's a problem. They have still been an above average defense for 2 straight years. They need to take that next step.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 12:53 PM
If the Chiefs can just get into the 10-15 range, and the defense can stay around #12 or better, they should be good enough to get in the playoffs and go from there. Hell, given the schedules the AFCW are playing, even between 16-20 on offense might be enough if the defense can stay at that #12 or above.

JFC, we've been there for 2 years now.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/

I want to see them improve. I'm not going to panic over a preseason game though. What I saw wasn't just a scheme problem. Elam, Routt, Berry, and Brown is not quite the secondary we'd ideally have out there and that was a huge reason Seattle bitchslapped us around. Unfortunately it appears that's gonna be the lineup against Atlanta.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 12:56 PM
JFC, we've been there for 2 years now.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/
yes, but we also played/coached stupidly

we couldn't score consistly once we got there

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 12:57 PM
You know, everyone said that last year and the year before and the defense was pretty good. 11th in points allowed. We just need to get more consistent and avoid those horrible games.

The struggles of the defense are consistently exaggerated around here simply because there are a lot of people had a previous bias against the 2 gap scheme. I know people who do that shit with every defense.

I will always say it: Schemes are over-rated. If you have the right players any scheme will work. Our base DL can't rush the passer, as you've said, and that's a problem.

I think the biggest reason people are hyper-sensitive to the defensive struggles is because everybody knows that the defense has to be nearly perfect in every game or we're in trouble.

With this offense, there's absolutely no room for errors. Hopefully Daboll can fix that somewhat.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 12:59 PM
I think the biggest reason people are hyper-sensitive to the defensive struggles is because everybody knows that the defense has to be nearly perfect in every game or we're in trouble.

With this offense, there's absolutely no room for errors. Hopefully Daboll can fix that somewhat.

I think that's absolutely true. A 10 point deficit feels insurmountable with you-know-who attempting to run the offense.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 01:00 PM
JFC, we've been there for 2 years now.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/

When the defense was #11 and the offense was #14, the team made the playoffs.

When the defense was #12 and the offense was #31, the team went 7-9 and missed the playoffs.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 01:06 PM
When the defense was #11 and the offense was #14, the team made the playoffs.

When the defense was #12 and the offense was #31, the team went 7-9 and missed the playoffs.

Correction:

When the defense was 11 and the offense was 14 the team made the playoffs but was never really considered a threat to quality teams.

When the defense was 12 and the offense was 31, we just missed the playoffs by 1 game and were not considered a threat to quality teams (though we actually beat one).

With our offense, we NEED to be dominant on defense to ever be a legit threat to the top tier teams. We need every game to be in line with the ass whipping Kc gave Aaron Rogers and the packer offense.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 01:15 PM
Correction:

When the defense was 11 and the offense was 14 the team made the playoffs but was never really considered a threat to quality teams.

When the defense was 12 and the offense was 31, we just missed the playoffs by 1 game and were not considered a threat to quality teams (though we actually beat one).

With our offense, we NEED to be dominant on defense to ever be a legit threat to the top tier teams. We need every game to be in line with the ass whipping Kc gave Aaron Rogers and the packer offense.

The Chiefs weren't considered a threat in the playoffs because they hadn't been there in a while and were a 10-6 team following a 4 win season, while the Ravens were a playoff-tested 12-4 team. Despite that, the Chiefs were battling in that game and giving the Ravens problems until Charles went down.

The overreactions on this board have gone way past absurdity.

WhiteWhale
08-30-2012, 01:21 PM
The Chiefs weren't considered a threat in the playoffs because they hadn't been there in a while and were a 10-6 team following a 4 win season, while the Ravens were a playoff-tested 12-4 team. Despite that, the Chiefs were battling in that game and giving the Ravens problems until Charles went down.

The overreactions on this board have gone way past absurdity.

We were battling in the game. We were winning at halftime. Then our offense shit the bed.

Mediocre offense and mediocre defense doesn't equal a championship team. You need something to hang your hat on. Our offense has a ceiling. Our defense has real potential. It has nothing to do with over-reacting.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 01:34 PM
We were battling in the game. We were winning at halftime. Then our offense shit the bed.

Mediocre offense and mediocre defense doesn't equal a championship team. You need something to hang your hat on. Our offense has a ceiling. Our defense has real potential. It has nothing to do with over-reacting.
yep, on this team we need a solid,average offense that takes what it's given and doesn't screw up. A defense that kicks the shit out of everyone and gives the offense a short field.

It might not be fair, but the defense needs to carry the team.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 01:37 PM
You guys are crazy. This is going to be the best offense we have had since 2003. On paper, it's a better all around offense. We aren't going to have problems scoring points this year.

That's what we expect, but the interior of this OL is suspect and obviously, the DL has disappointed. To top it all off, ST has been mediocre.

The pressure is on in KC, I'm certain this staff can feel the fans that are questioning whether this team is actually worth 3+ years investment that this staff put in.

Won't know much tonight, but it would be cool if the Chiefs can just go take care of biz out there. That would be a change in the right direction. Of course, that means the QB needs to guide this team too.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 01:58 PM
yep, on this team we need a solid,average offense that takes what it's given and doesn't screw up. A defense that kicks the shit out of everyone and gives the offense a short field.

It might not be fair, but the defense needs to carry the team.

The problem is that the NFL rulebook is basically written to PREVENT that. They want scoring, and lots of it.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 02:04 PM
We were battling in the game. We were winning at halftime. Then our offense shit the bed.

Mediocre offense and mediocre defense doesn't equal a championship team. You need something to hang your hat on. Our offense has a ceiling. Our defense has real potential. It has nothing to do with over-reacting.

The offense shit the bed when it lost its best player. That's not unusual.

However, the 2007 Giants were 14th in offense, 17th in defense, and Super Bowl champs. The 2011 Giants were 9th in offense and 25th in defense, and Super Bowl champs.

There are many ways to get to, and win the Super Bowl.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 02:07 PM
The problem is that the NFL rulebook is basically written to PREVENT that. They want scoring, and lots of it.
true ... which is why we need to be more aggressive about killing the QB.

I don't think there is much chance of the defense doing what we need without hitting the QB.

remember how we played against New England?

we went balls out and were successful for 2 1/2 quarters and then just ran out of gas. We need to do that against teams all the team. A team without a 'Tom Brady' won't be able to handle it.

Sitting back and playing prevent allows average QB's to look better than they should.

you smack sam bradford around and he looks like shit

you don't smack him around and he will kick the crap out of you


JMO

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 02:08 PM
Seriously.

To be the best offense we have had since 2003, they'd have to finish SECOND in the league in points scored. Hell, the 2006 offense was 6th in points and 1st in yards. This offense won't even come close to that.

I appreciate your optimism, I really do. It's been a long time since I've had much hope in this team.

But saying this will be the best offense since 2003 is just ridiculously absurd.

To be a top 10 offense (points scored) you need an aerial attack, or in rare cases an extremely mobile QB (Carolina and Philly). KC won't come close. But that's okay because the team isn't designed to put points on the board quickly. Grind it out, dink and dunk, minimize the number of possessions. That's the gameplan.

You can't expect Cassel to carry the team, especially when Bowe will takes weeks to get acclimated to the new system and Baldwin hasn't yet shown anything in a game.

IMHO, Daboll has called a really good offense so far. Even the first quarter against Seattle wasn't that bad with respect to playcalling. The execution of Cassel throwing high, receivers dropping the ball and Asamoah failing on two third downs is what hampered the team. Daboll was still able get a really nice long TD drive after the mis-fires.

The injuries on D is what has me concerned. Lewis isn't even that good, but his backups are horrible. Brown/Reeves is a scarey backup situation. Lets hope Toribio's ankle is okay, or there will be growing pains at DT. And, if any starting LB gets banged up the drop in talent is alarming as well.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 02:11 PM
The offense shit the bed when it lost its best player. That's not unusual.

However, the 2007 Giants were 14th in offense, 17th in defense, and Super Bowl champs. The 2011 Giants were 9th in offense and 25th in defense, and Super Bowl champs.

There are many ways to get to, and win the Super Bowl.

The Giants have Eli Manning. We have Matt Cassel.

I don't want to start another bitch thread about Cassel but let's get real here...

Chiefnj2
08-30-2012, 02:12 PM
The Giants have Eli Manning. We have Matt Cassel.

I don't want to start another bitch thread about Cassel but let's get real here...

And could consistently beat the crap out of opposing QBs in the postseason.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 02:16 PM
The offense shit the bed when it lost its best player. That's not unusual.

However, the 2007 Giants were 14th in offense, 17th in defense, and Super Bowl champs. The 2011 Giants were 9th in offense and 25th in defense, and Super Bowl champs.

There are many ways to get to, and win the Super Bowl.

Yeah there are but, look how many come from behind wins they had. Eli had five 4th quarter comebacks and six game winning drives. You need a clutch QB to do it this way. Your QB has to be able to make the play when it has to be made. It's not about throwing for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs or being the best offense. It's about getting it done when it counts. Our QB hasn't done this very much.

On the opposite end of this spectrum is Aaron Rodgers. He hasn't done it much either. The year they won the Superbowl, he never trailed going into the 4th quarter. In general, when Rodgers is trailing at the end, he loses most of the time. This is the strategy we have to go by. We have to get way ahead and hold onto the lead just like Green bay did in 2010. Against Chicago in the playoffs, he almost got behind but he managed to get out of it. We need to get way ahead and hold on. The additions of Winston, Boss, and Hillis tell me this is what we are going for.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 02:16 PM
The Giants have Eli Manning. We have Matt Cassel.

I don't want to start another bitch thread about Cassel but let's get real here...

People here like to pretend that Cassel's the only QB ever to have a bad playoff game. Manning's had 2 excellent playoff runs. He's been one-and-done (0-3) in his other playoff years. His QB ratings in those 3 playoff games are 35.0, 85.6 and 40.7, with a 2/6 TD/INT comparison.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 02:21 PM
People here like to pretend that Cassel's the only QB ever to have a bad playoff game. Manning's had 2 excellent playoff runs. He's been one-and-done (0-3) in his other playoff years. His QB ratings in those 3 playoff games are 35.0, 85.6 and 40.7, with a 2/6 TD/INT comparison.

It really doesn't matter what those other 3 playoff games looked like.

He elevated his game tremendously and is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) reasons the Giants have 2 SB rings in 5 years.

Comparing Cassel to Eli Manning is laughable.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-30-2012, 02:24 PM
It really doesn't matter what those other 3 playoff games looked like.

He elevated his game tremendously and is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) reasons the Giants have 2 SB rings in 5 years.

Comparing Cassel to Eli Manning is laughable.

I agree. He's better than Peyton in my opinion. If you want to win a Superbowl, you take Eli over Peyton. If you want an MVP, take Peyton over Eli. Peyton has choked over and over in the playoffs.

It wasn't always this way though. Eli wasn't always clutch. Can it be taught? Can guys grow in this area? Alex Smith did last year. Or, was he lucky?

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 02:47 PM
It really doesn't matter what those other 3 playoff games looked like.

He elevated his game tremendously and is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) reasons the Giants have 2 SB rings in 5 years.

Comparing Cassel to Eli Manning is laughable.

First, I didn't make the comparison. You did. I just responded to it. I'd brought up the Giants as an example of a team winning the Super Bowl with mediocre offense and defense rankings.

Second, Manning was being killed in New York before he made his first SB run, which didn't come until after his first two one-and-done appearances. In that sense, it's a fair comparison.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 02:50 PM
First, I didn't make the comparison. You did. I just responded to it. I'd brought up the Giants as an example of a team winning the Super Bowl with both the offense and defense ranked outside the top 10.

Second, Manning was being killed in New York before he made his first SB run, which didn't come until after his first two one-and-done appearances. In that sense, it's a fair comparison.

ROFL

You compared the Chiefs to the Giants. The comparison between Cassel and Manning is inferred.

Gimme a break.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 02:52 PM
ROFL

You compared the Chiefs to the Giants. The comparison between Cassel and Manning is inferred.

Gimme a break.

No such comparison was implied.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2012, 02:56 PM
No such comparison was implied.
just let it go

OTW/htis is rabid to the point of insanity about Cassel ... nothing can be said to stop him about it. Nothing.

Even a hint about Cassel being anything but the worst QB in the history of the universe and he can't not respond ... just can't help himself.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 02:57 PM
No such comparison was implied.

So you're saying that you were talking about the Chiefs and Giants, they're relative rankings on both offense and defense, but specifically excluding any impact the respective QBs of those teams might have had on their rankings?

ROFL

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 02:58 PM
just let it go

OTW/htis is rabid to the point of insanity about Cassel ... nothing can be said to stop him about it. Nothing.

Even a hint about Cassel being anything but the worst QB in the history of the universe and he can't not respond ... just can't help himself.

There you go jumping to extremes again.

He compared to the Chiefs to the Super Bowl Giants.

A comparison between QBs is not only warrented, it's unavoidable.

And the only person that said anything about Cassel being the worst QB in history is YOU.

I merely said he's no Eli Manning. And he isn't.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 03:00 PM
So you're saying that you were talking about the Chiefs and Giants, they're relative rankings on both offense and defense, but specifically excluding any impact the respective QBs of those teams might have had on their rankings?

ROFL

I'm saying that I was responding to a post which read, in part,

Mediocre offense and mediocre defense doesn't equal a championship team. You need something to hang your hat on. Our offense has a ceiling. Our defense has real potential. It has nothing to do with over-reacting.

and was in no way specific to Cassel. You decided respond to that by bringing up the Cassel/Manning comparison, even while claiming you didn't want to make the thread about Cassel.

It's all on you.

htismaqe
08-30-2012, 03:01 PM
I'm saying that I was responding to a post which read, in part,



and was in no way specific to Cassel. You decided respond to that by bringing up the Cassel/Manning comparison, even while claiming you didn't want to make the thread about Cassel.

It's all on you.

You compared the Chiefs to the Giants. Are you suggesting that their performance on the field had nothing at all to do with their QBs?

Just Passin' By
08-30-2012, 03:04 PM
You compared the Chiefs to the Giants. Are you suggesting that their performance on the field had nothing at all to do with their QBs?

I didn't compare the Chiefs to the Giants. I pointed to an example of a team that had a mediocre offense and mediocre defense and still won the Super Bowl, and I did that in response to a poster who said

Mediocre offense and mediocre defense doesn't equal a championship team.

Frosty
08-30-2012, 03:06 PM
You compared the Chiefs to the Giants. Are you suggesting that their performance on the field had nothing at all to do with their QBs?

Wow. So far today you've had long arguments with BlackBob, jd1020 and now JPB. You should go and repeatedly slam your head with your car door to round out your day.



:D

Detoxing
08-30-2012, 03:07 PM
I didn't compare the Chiefs to the Giants. I pointed to an example of a team that had a mediocre offense and mediocre defense and still won the Super Bowl, and I did that in response to a poster who said

Yeah, but when push came to shove, they weren't mediocre when it counted.

BoneKrusher
08-30-2012, 03:52 PM
Yeah, but when push came to shove, they weren't mediocre when it counted.

i Believe in Eli
Eli's Clutch.

Pawnmower
08-30-2012, 04:04 PM
sure it's different



You missed my point, I wasn't saying the technique was the same, I am saying that so far the results have seemed the same...

No pressure or not enough pressure on the QB.(aside from Hali, who is a beast) Period.

Setsuna
08-30-2012, 04:05 PM
That top 10 in run defense is completely useless. This is a PASSING league now. Running be damned.

Ace Gunner
08-30-2012, 04:18 PM
That top 10 in run defense is completely useless. This is a PASSING league now. Running be damned.

according to pfr, the Chiefs defense wasn't 10th in anything;


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=pfr&url=%2Fteams%2Fkan%2F2011.htm&div=div_team_stats"></script>

Setsuna
08-30-2012, 05:03 PM
according to pfr, the Chiefs defense wasn't 10th in anything;


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=pfr&url=%2Fteams%2Fkan%2F2011.htm&div=div_team_stats"></script>

As a team yes. I think they meant their DEs were top 10 in rush defense. If that makes sense.

Jayrodt
08-30-2012, 05:14 PM
The whole idea of "this coach does this scheme" is completely overblown. There is a reason why Romeo frustrates franchise QBs like Peyton Manning and Pip Rivers, and it's not because they don't know how to deal with defensive linemen playing 2-gap. It's because Romeo game plans with the best of them. I'm not sure how many of you realize how ridiculous it is to just bracket cover Gates for an entire game when you have Phillip Rivers under center and an offense predicated on setting up the deep ball.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-30-2012, 06:31 PM
according to pfr, the Chiefs defense wasn't 10th in anything;


<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=pfr&url=%2Fteams%2Fkan%2F2011.htm&div=div_team_stats"></script>

They were a top 10 pass defense dumbass.

whoman69
08-30-2012, 07:17 PM
That top 10 in run defense is completely useless. This is a PASSING league now. Running be damned.

If you can't hold offenses under 4.0 then they can pretty much move the chains at will. Teams ran on us last year more than they passed. I think teams have found out they can pass on this defense if we are in base defense. We will see more of other teams passing on first and second downs. Dorsey and Jackson are going to need to find some way to put some pressure on the QB while Belcher will need to become better in coverage. Routt really worries me. Whoever said he would be better than Carr was trying to sell a bill of goods.