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View Full Version : Chiefs We still feel the sting of Herm and the King...


Tuckdaddy
08-30-2012, 07:59 PM
that's why we have depth issues. It's taken four years to find starters and a few good back ups after being left a roster with nothing but practice squad players on it.

Big Smoke
08-30-2012, 08:00 PM
Sofa King?

BWillie
08-30-2012, 08:01 PM
I ac5ually always loved Carl....he's done better than Pioli ...hell almost all of oour good players are from king carl

The Bad Guy
08-30-2012, 08:08 PM
Yeah, this is bullshit. Most of the good players on this team were drafted by Carl and Herm. I hated them both, but blaming them 4 seasons after their departure is garbage.

Nightfyre
08-30-2012, 08:10 PM
I ac5ually always loved Carl....he's done better than Pioli ...hell almost all of oour good players are from king carl

What
The
Fuck


That is some nostalgic bullshit if I've ever read it.

NWTF
08-30-2012, 08:22 PM
What
The
****


That is some nostalgic bullshit if I've ever read it.

No, thats actually true. Most of the key players on this team were drafted under Carl and Herm. It is what it is. Pioli hasnt done horrible, but he hasnt done well either. Hes not quite the guru GM he was made out to be.

Nightfyre
08-30-2012, 08:23 PM
I'm referring to anyone who claims they loved Carl. That's a load of crap. Everyone - literally everyone - wanted him fired, and rightfully so.

NWTF
08-30-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm referring to anyone who claims they loved Carl. That's a load of crap. Everyone - literally everyone - wanted him fired, and rightfully so.

Yeah your right on that.

NJChiefsFan
08-30-2012, 09:03 PM
I ac5ually always loved Carl....he's done better than Pioli ...hell almost all of oour good players are from king carl

1 playoff win in 15 plus years is a better average than 0 in 3 years. If that is the level you are cool with, good for you. Must not be as stressful having not seen a winner ever(unless you are 50+ years old).

tredadda
08-30-2012, 10:20 PM
that's why we have depth issues. It's taken four years to find starters and a few good back ups after being left a roster with nothing but practice squad players on it.

And they had nothing to do with our biggest weakness, the guy under center.

Shaid
08-30-2012, 10:22 PM
A lot of good players here from Herm. I do think Pioli has started building good depth but if we don't have a good QB, it doesn't mean much.

Bacon Cheeseburger
08-30-2012, 10:23 PM
My favorite part of the season is the stupid postgame threads we get each week from Pete and Tuckdaddy. I always look forward to them.

SNR
08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
We have depth issues because we're still a young fucking team with young fucking players.

Christ, what's you people's solution? DRAFT DEPTH! Oh, you mean more young guys? BRILLIANT!

There's nothing fucking wrong with our depth, assholes. It takes time.

Jesus fuck.

New World Order
08-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Yeah, this is bullshit. Most of the good players on this team were drafted by Carl and Herm. I hated them both, but blaming them 4 seasons after their departure is garbage.


Couldn't agree more, not that I love King Carl but c'mon, let's be realistic. Pioli has done a solid job rounding out the roster, but when it comes to our true impact franchise players there is no comparison


Hali, Flowers, Jamaal Charles, DJ, Bowe vs Berry, Mccluster..... Cassel?

RunKC
08-30-2012, 10:40 PM
Pioli is eerily reminding me of King Carl. Drafting shitty DL, signing garbage QB's from other teams, hiring old coaches without giving them a good coordinator on the other side of the ball. Yikes.

TEX
08-30-2012, 10:41 PM
that's why we have depth issues. It's taken four years to find starters and a few good back ups after being left a roster with nothing but practice squad players on it.

Some of the best players on the team were drafted by Herm and Carl. Check the roster see who drafted whom. You will be surprised...

mcaj22
08-31-2012, 04:03 AM
we wouldnt have depth issues if Pioli would just draft by BPA which he only does like half the time.

the other half the time it's midgets, awful CBs or TEs/d-line/o-line

LVNHACK
08-31-2012, 04:37 AM
Yeah, this is bullshit. Most of the good players on this team were drafted by Carl and Herm. I hated them both, but blaming them 4 seasons after their departure is garbage.


Come on bro....It works for the President...........................;)

the Talking Can
08-31-2012, 04:52 AM
pioli can't hold carl's jock

BoneKrusher
08-31-2012, 06:15 AM
Yeah, this is bullshit. Most of the good players on this team were drafted by Carl and Herm. I hated them both, but blaming them 4 seasons after their departure is garbage.

i agree
Pioli deserves props for this mess we have 4 years later.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 06:17 AM
that's why we have depth issues. It's taken four years to find starters and a few good back ups after being left a roster with nothing but practice squad players on it.

Bad post. Herm built the core of this team. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2012, 06:26 AM
Pioli is eerily reminding me of King Carl.

Ummm......maybe Carls last 10 years or so.

But the reality is, Peterson was far greater than Pioli his over his first 10 years in KC.

Peterson built the Chiefs from a loser to a winner almost instantly his first season and never looked back.

Here we are in year 4 of Pioli still talking about how we might have a losing season again....sigh.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 06:32 AM
Pioli hasn't been here ten years.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2012, 06:34 AM
Pioli hasn't been here ten years.

:facepalm:

Ace Gunner
08-31-2012, 06:36 AM
Ummm......maybe Carls last 10 years or so.

But the reality is, Peterson was far greater than Pioli his over his first 10 years in KC.

Peterson built the Chiefs from a loser to a winner almost instantly his first season and never looked back.

Here we are in year 4 of Pioli still talking about how we might have a losing season again....sigh.

Really, you should take a look at the roster CP was given to work with. He certainly did get DT and a few really good OL guys, but he lost so many good players at the same time. After '95 his drafts were terrible and that is what put the Chiefs back in the hole.

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 06:42 AM
Pioli hasn't been here ten years.

No, he hasn't been.

But let's look at it this way.

Pioli has been here 3 full seasons. In those 3 seasons he's:

1) had 1 winning record
2) fired his head coach
3) won zero playoffs games

People want to use the "he had to tear it down completely" excuse, so there's also this. Preceding Pioli the team:

1) was 2 years removed from a winning season.
2) was 2 years removed for a playoff appearance
3) had 3 winning seasons in the previous 6
4) was 5 years removed from a league-best 13-3 record and a division championship

Now compare that to Carl's first 3 years:

1) 3 winning records in 3 years
2) head coach not only made it through 3 years but ended up coaching 10
3) made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years
4) won a playoff game

And to make it a fair comparison using the "he had to tear it all down and start over" excuse, Carl had to contend with a team:

1) that had TWO winning seasons (and two 500) in the TEN years prior to his arrival.
2) had made the playoffs twice in the prior TWENTY years

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 06:42 AM
I just don't see how anyone can say this isn't the best roster we have had since 1995? I guess it will have to be proven?

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 06:43 AM
Now I have to go take a shower... :Lin:

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 06:44 AM
I just don't see how anyone can say this isn't the best roster we have had since 1995? I guess it will have to be proven?

If they don't WIN, it doesn't matter what the roster looks like. Talent on paper is meaningless.

ChiefsCountry
08-31-2012, 06:50 AM
I just don't see how anyone can say this isn't the best roster we have had since 1995? I guess it will have to be proven?

1997 team was way more talented than the 1995 team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 06:50 AM
No, he hasn't been.

But let's look at it this way.

Pioli has been here 3 full seasons. In those 3 seasons he's:

1) had 1 winning record
2) fired his head coach
3) won zero playoffs games

People want to use the "he had to tear it down completely" excuse, so there's also this. Preceding Pioli the team:

1) was 2 years removed from a winning season.
2) was 2 years removed for a playoff appearance
3) had 3 winning seasons in the previous 6
4) was 5 years removed from a league-best 13-3 record and a division championship

Now compare that to Carl's first 3 years:

1) 3 winning records in 3 years
2) head coach not only made it through 3 years but ended up coaching 10
3) made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years
4) won a playoff game

And to make it a fair comparison using the "he had to tear it all down and start over" excuse, Carl had to contend with a team:

1) that had TWO winning seasons (and two 500) in the TEN years prior to his arrival.
2) had made the playoffs twice in the prior TWENTY years

It was a different game. Building a defense meant something. You could win with the run. it wasn't a QB driven league.

I never had anything against CP. When he left it was time for him to go. Pioli bombed on Haley. Cassel has been OK. I still believe he's the best we could get aside from Andy Dalton.

If we have a losing season this year, Pioli and Crennel will be gone and I would be fine with that.

I believe we are deeper than ever. We are in a position to win now. I like what Pioli has done with the roster and the coaches. Have you ever heard the old saying that "the most successful people are also the biggest failures?" People who are really successful fail bigtime before they get there.

I see Romeo and Scott doing great things this year. The Chiefs will be good. We are deeper than ever and Romeo has prepared this team for adversity and that was the biggest problem last season. I think you will be pleasently suprised.

ptlyon
08-31-2012, 06:52 AM
1997 team was way more talented than the 1995 team. With Gannon and not Grbac that is.
Posted via Mobile Device

FYP

ChiefsCountry
08-31-2012, 06:56 AM
FYP

Thats a myth. Grbac put up better stats than Gannon and the team had the same winning percentage with both.

GordonGekko
08-31-2012, 06:57 AM
I ac5ually always loved Carl....he's done better than Pioli ...hell almost all of oour good players are from king carl

Lol for realz?

The guy had 3 decades of being the GM to bring a championship, couldn't even win the conference in that time. Total waste. There were a few highlights, Tony G., Derrick Thomas, and Priest, and he brought in a few good FA's, Willie Roaf and again Priest come to mind, but I wonder how much Vermeil factored in to those decisions. The fact that he could never get us a franchise caliber QB in that time is startling. Check that, we had a franchise QB in Gannon who was let go. :banghead::doh!:

Mr. Flopnuts
08-31-2012, 06:59 AM
Yeah, this is bullshit. Most of the good players on this team were drafted by Carl and Herm. I hated them both, but blaming them 4 seasons after their departure is garbage.

I wonder how Tuckdaddy feels about Democrats who still blame Bush.


TO THE DC!!!!

GordonGekko
08-31-2012, 07:00 AM
By the way, every NFL team has depth issues.

notorious
08-31-2012, 07:01 AM
Pioli is eerily reminding me of King Carl. Drafting shitty DL, signing garbage QB's from other teams, hiring old coaches without giving them a good coordinator on the other side of the ball. Yikes.

Don't make me bump my "Carl Peterson Part Deux" thread dating back to the Cassel trade.



If you want to bump it to remind everyone how stupid they were, be my guest.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203355&highlight=carl+peterson+part+deux

qabbaan
08-31-2012, 07:02 AM
I just don't see how anyone can say this isn't the best roster we have had since 1995? I guess it will have to be proven?

I'm just gawping. Don't mind me.

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 07:02 AM
It was a different game. Building a defense meant something. You could win with the run. it wasn't a QB driven league.

Wait. What?

Sorry but this is the biggest BS excuse I've seen yet.

By saying the above, you're actually making the case against Pioli WORSE.

You keep saying in every thread that this is the most talented team since 1995 and then you turn around and try to defend Pioli by saying he's been deliberately building a team to fail.

Sometimes I wonder if you realize what you are saying.

I believe we are deeper than ever. We are in a position to win now. I like what Pioli has done with the roster and the coaches. Have you ever heard the old saying that "the most successful people are also the biggest failures?" People who are really successful fail bigtime before they get there.

I see Romeo and Scott doing great things this year. The Chiefs will be good. We are deeper than ever and Romeo has prepared this team for adversity and that was the biggest problem last season. I think you will be pleasently suprised.

How so? They've built a team around a mediocre QB and are hoping to run the ball and play defense.

You just said that Carl had the advantage because building a defense actually meant something and now it's a more QB-driven league.

You can't have it both ways.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-31-2012, 07:02 AM
If they don't WIN, it doesn't matter what the roster looks like. Talent on paper is meaningless.

The San Diego Chargers are gonna punch you in the face!!!

Deberg_1990
08-31-2012, 07:03 AM
By the way, every NFL team has depth issues.

This ^^^

Nearly every playoff team last year had an average defense. Its all about the QB in todays game. If you have the QB, he will disguise alot of flaws in other parts of your team.

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 07:03 AM
Thats a myth. Grbac put up better stats than Gannon and the team had the same winning percentage with both.

Don't bother. It's been proven over and over and over. People just don't want to see the truth.

Gannon is a folk hero in Chiefs nation.

ChiefsCountry
08-31-2012, 07:04 AM
Check that, we had a franchise QB in Gannon who was let go.

This a myth. Grbac was better than Gannon during Gannon's time in Kansas City.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 07:06 AM
Wait. What?

Sorry but this is the biggest BS excuse I've seen yet.

By saying the above, you're actually making the case against Pioli WORSE.

You keep saying in every thread that this is the most talented team since 1995 and then you turn around and try to defend Pioli by saying he's been deliberately building a team to fail.

Sometimes I wonder if you realize what you are saying.



How so? They've built a team around a mediocre QB and are hoping to run the ball and play defense.

You just said that Carl had the advantage because building a defense actually meant something and now it's a more QB-driven league.

You can't have it both ways.

I made my case fine. You just really hate Pioli and that's OK. I hated Haley that much and I understand. If we don't win, I'll eat crow.

ChiefsCountry
08-31-2012, 07:08 AM
And please quit saying 1995 was our best team. It was 1997 by far. Top rated defense and top 5 offense that year. 1995 won by fluke wins.

BigMeatballDave
08-31-2012, 07:19 AM
This a myth. Grbac was better than Gannon during Gannon's time in Kansas City.

Actually, it was VERY close in 97.

Grbac 79.1
Gannon 79.8

Either way, Marty fucked up not staying with Gannon for the playoffs.

Grbac was awful in 98.

Solid in 2000.

htismaqe
08-31-2012, 07:19 AM
I made my case fine. You just really hate Pioli and that's OK. I hated Haley that much and I understand. If we don't win, I'll eat crow.

That's a cop out and you know it.

You flat-out contradicted yourself, you can't chalk that up to anything about me, regardless of how I feel about Pioli.

BigMeatballDave
08-31-2012, 07:24 AM
By the way, every NFL team has depth issues.

Yep.

Its just not as glaring on teams with elite QBs.

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 07:27 AM
That's a cop out and you know it.

You flat-out contradicted yourself, you can't chalk that up to anything about me, regardless of how I feel about Pioli.

You are taking it to the extreme. You have to be able to run the ball and play good defense to be a playoff contender. I'm not saying those things have no value. I'm saying the game has changed.

There's a ton of things that you aren't thinking of. How about the salary cap? There wasn't one then. How about the way that CBs play receivers. Back then, they were all over them. CP would have kept Carr over Bowe back then. All I am saying is that CP and Pioli weren't given the same hand and it is to early to say that CP did more.

I like the way we look on on paper. I like some things I have seen in the preseason. I like what Pioli has done.

Deberg_1990
08-31-2012, 07:35 AM
You have to be able to run the ball and play good defense to be a playoff contender. I'm not saying those things have no value. I'm saying the game has changed.



you just contradicted yourself again. You have to run and play good defense but the game has changed???

Spongeblack Bobtard
08-31-2012, 07:47 AM
you just contradicted yourself again. You have to run and play good defense but the game has changed???

You are taking it to the extreme. If you think I contradicted myself, I don't give a fuck. You know what I meant and if you don't, you are an idiot. It's all there.

chiefzilla1501
08-31-2012, 08:23 AM
Are you fucking kidding me? WE have a hell of a lot more depth than teams like the Packers, Saints, and the Peyton Manning led Colts. Hell, our supporting cast is a hell of a lot better than the Pats.

Take Aaron Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton away and look at the teams you have. You have teams with lousy defenses, average offensive lines, and average running games (before the Saints got Sproles).

The reason they excel is the QB.

This team would be outstanding if we just had a QB.

Sofa King
08-31-2012, 08:32 AM
Sofa King?

I don't recall complaining about depth.

Tuckdaddy
08-31-2012, 07:38 PM
My favorite part of the season is the stupid postgame threads we get each week from Pete and Tuckdaddy. I always look forward to them.

You are a fugging asshole. What post game threads? I was closing down Iraq last season you shithead. All you do in some form is bash what others say every time you type a response. This place was loaded with roster posts about how the roster was gutted down to nothing, so I am not stupid. I think some of you forget what was on the roster four years ago. Those great draft picks were unproven nothing when Pioli got here. It takes time to build depth not just fours years because not everyone you draft or bring in will be good enough to be called upon in game.

Pioli has not been perfect. Haley and Matt were his massive fugg ups but he did have a real mess to clean up.

Tuckdaddy
08-31-2012, 07:41 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? WE have a hell of a lot more depth than teams like the Packers, Saints, and the Peyton Manning led Colts. Hell, our supporting cast is a hell of a lot better than the Pats.

Take Aaron Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton away and look at the teams you have. You have teams with lousy defenses, average offensive lines, and average running games (before the Saints got Sproles).

The reason they excel is the QB.

This team would be outstanding if we just had a QB.

What? We lost Charles and couldn't run. We lost Tony M and who replaced him that was good? We lost Berry and what was that like? We are better now but all the way around the only team on your list I agree with is the Colts .Not to mention our pathedic O-line that they have been trying fix forever and day. That's not depth.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2012, 08:09 PM
What
The
Fuck


That is some nostalgic bullshit if I've ever read it.

Bullshit.

Compare Carl's first three years and four offseasons with Pioli's and get back to me.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2012, 08:11 PM
Really, you should take a look at the roster CP was given to work with. He certainly did get DT and a few really good OL guys, but he lost so many good players at the same time. After '95 his drafts were terrible and that is what put the Chiefs back in the hole.

LMAO

Gonzalez, Woods, Tongue, Horn and Edwards were all after 1995.

Urine Idiot.

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2012, 08:14 PM
It was a different game. Building a defense meant something. You could win with the run. it wasn't a QB driven league.



LMAO

Kurt Warner, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway: What do they have in common?

Well, they won a total of eight Super Bowls from 1991 - 2000. Oh, and each is a Hall of Famer (or Hall of Famer in waiting).

JFC.

:facepalm:

Brock
08-31-2012, 08:19 PM
Have you ever heard the old saying that "the most successful people are also the biggest failures?" People who are really successful fail bigtime before they get there.


Looks like Scott is an example of the inverse.

Saul Good
08-31-2012, 08:32 PM
LMAO

Gonzalez, Woods, Tongue, Horn and Edwards were all after 1995.

Urine Idiot.

Is that supposed to be an impressive list?

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2012, 08:37 PM
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?

Hall of Fame Tight End, Pro Bowlers in Edwards, Horn and Woods.

Yep, they all sucked.

Mr_Tomahawk
08-31-2012, 08:39 PM
lol

whoman69
08-31-2012, 08:40 PM
CP fell in love with his own greatness. He would always have that can't miss prospect with the second pick that always missed. Instead of working on team depth he was trying to find diamond in the fertilizer trough. His early success ruined him.