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Pasta Giant Meatball
09-03-2012, 06:00 PM
over actual starting 3 down players it isnt. Taking Arenas before guys like Terrance Cody, Sean Lee, Pat Angerer, Brandon Spikes, Ben Tate, is a laughable joke.

Cody's a 3 down player :rolleyes: All that fat POS has done is bellyflop on Charles in a playoff game

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Yeah, this is definitely not a big game.

This is an NFC powerhouse taking a road trip to take a shit on an AFC bottom feeder.

I don't think they should be taking any road game for granted. Make them one dimensional.

BossChief
09-03-2012, 06:08 PM
Jalil Brown? Ricky Stanzi? Jerrell Powe? Allen Bailey? Dexter McCluster? Cameron Sheffield?

JAKE O'CONNELL? TYSON JACKSON?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

You think Pioli hit on those picks?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

Cleanup on aisle homer, BossChief has made a mess.

For players in their second and third years, they contributed quite a bit, actually.

Like I said in the top line "solid contributors that are still on the team"

Tell ya what...

Give me 5 teams in the NFL that had better draft classes over that time period.

Now, dance.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-03-2012, 06:09 PM
The guy pimps the shit out of marginal players on other teams. It's pretty funny seeing him bag on someone else.

JASONSAUTO
09-03-2012, 06:11 PM
The guy pimps the shit out of marginal players on other teams. It's pretty funny seeing him bag on someone else.
He's a loser
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief
09-03-2012, 06:14 PM
contributors? what have they contributed exactly? 3/4s if this list have done nothing good in terms of legitimate NFL production in their careers yet. Absolutely nothing. Pure homerism to crown these guys already even as even role players

You have no idea how the NFL works, do you?

If a team gets 2 starters out of a draft, its a successful draft.

We got 3 starters already out of the 2011 class in Baldwin, Hudson and Houston...3 more out of the 2010 class in Berry, Lewis and Asamoah (and arguably 3 more that could be considered starters in DMC, Arenas and Moeaki) and out of the 2009 class, he got Jackson, Succop and Belcher.

Anyone that thinks thats not a good 3 year stretch of drafting, doesnt know what they are talking about.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-03-2012, 06:15 PM
The bust rate for 2nd rounders is 50 percent. 3rd round? 70

BossChief
09-03-2012, 06:22 PM
If I have some extra time to burn someday, Im gonna go through every single 2nd and 3rd round pick the league has had over the last 15 years and see what percentage of them are even in the NFL after 3 years.

Then, how many of them are starters after 3 years.

Then, how many are probowl quality players after 5.

I bet the numbers would astonish the majority of this board.

Saccopoo
09-03-2012, 07:53 PM
Jalil Brown? Ricky Stanzi? Jerrell Powe? Allen Bailey? Dexter McCluster? Cameron Sheffield?

JAKE O'CONNELL? TYSON JACKSON?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

You think Pioli hit on those picks?

Yep.

Jackson is one of the better 3-4 defensive ends in the league right now.

McCluster has been the featured guy this past preseason in the Chiefs offense and played well.

Brown, Powe, Bailey and Stanzi are just starting their second year after a first year that didn't have a training camp, and saw a head coaching change. Brown and Bailey contributed last year in situational play and were effective. Powe has looked the best of all the NT on the roster this preseason.

It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen through free agency. The past three drafts have been superb in filling in the holes and getting better talent on this team.

You want a reason to bitch about shitty drafts? Go look at the 20 years previous to Pioli and see how many of those guys in those drafts stuck around after a couple of years.

It's refreshing to see our draft picks develop within the system and stick around. It's a good way to build a quality team.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 08:04 PM
ROFL

The only guy I'd take over Arenas out of those guys is Cody.

BTW...calling Cody or Spikes a "3 down player" is a ****ing joke and shows your inability to understand your own comment.

You wouldn't take lee over arenas? I like arenas but I really disagree with that. Laughing at the idea is even more out of control.

all those guys start

at real NFL positions and not a part time gadget 2nd string position

Gadget position? Tate is a three down starter? No.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 08:09 PM
Yep.

Jackson is one of the better 3-4 defensive ends in the league right now.

McCluster has been the featured guy this past preseason in the Chiefs offense and played well.

Brown, Powe, Bailey and Stanzi are just starting their second year after a first year that didn't have a training camp, and saw a head coaching change. Brown and Bailey contributed last year in situational play and were effective. Powe has looked the best of all the NT on the roster this preseason.

It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen through free agency. The past three drafts have been superb in filling in the holes and getting better talent on this team.

You want a reason to bitch about shitty drafts? Go look at the 20 years previous to Pioli and see how many of those guys in those drafts stuck around after a couple of years.

It's refreshing to see our draft picks develop within the system and stick around. It's a good way to build a quality team.


I will not deny that Pioli hasn't done a solid job rounding out the roster, but where is the drafting genius that everyone thought was Pioli? All of our impact players/bonafied stars are all from the previous regime with the exception of 1.

Flowers, Bowe, Carr last year, Hali, Charles, DJ are all from the previous regime, and 4 of those players made all pro type impacts within their first 2 seasons.

The only all pro Pioli has picked out of his 3 drafts has been Berry.

BossChief
09-03-2012, 08:15 PM
I will not deny that Pioli hasn't done a solid job rounding out the roster, but where is the drafting genius that everyone thought was Pioli? All of our impact players/bonafied stars are all from the previous regime with the exception of 1.

Flowers, Bowe, Carr last year, Hali, Charles, DJ are all from the previous regime, and 4 of those players made all pro type impacts within their first 2 seasons.

The only all pro Pioli has picked out of his 3 drafts has been Berry.

Carr, Hali and DJ weren't much more than just potential in 2009. This regime either developed them or completely turned their careers around.

Give credit to the previous regime for Flowers, Charles and Bowe though...no doubt.

OctoberFart
09-03-2012, 08:17 PM
The early lines have Atlanta favored at -2 to -2.5 in most places.

They must really consider Arrowhead to be a touchdown's difference, 'cause I would've expected the line to be more like -9.

Well they would be 7.5 favorites at home. Lines have been consistent at -1 to -1.5. This is the easiest bet of week 1.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 08:17 PM
I will not deny that Pioli hasn't done a solid job rounding out the roster, but where is the drafting genius that everyone thought was Pioli? All of our impact players/bonafied stars are all from the previous regime with the exception of 1.

Flowers, Bowe, Carr last year, Hali, Charles, DJ are all from the previous regime, and 4 of those players made all pro type impacts within their first 2 seasons.

The only all pro Pioli has picked out of his 3 drafts has been Berry.

BB hasn't been killing it either. They seem to have been best together plus they got some luck. Pioli kills himself with the qb issue. If he fixes that the rest of his moves get more light plus probably improve with a better qb around them.

OctoberFart
09-03-2012, 08:18 PM
Sorry back on track here. I say run the ball 35 times and we win.

If you do that your P will have double digit punts.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 08:49 PM
If we can limit Cassel's attemps to 5 or below we will win this game, no doubt.

O.city
09-03-2012, 09:55 PM
I will not deny that Pioli hasn't done a solid job rounding out the roster, but where is the drafting genius that everyone thought was Pioli? All of our impact players/bonafied stars are all from the previous regime with the exception of 1.

Flowers, Bowe, Carr last year, Hali, Charles, DJ are all from the previous regime, and 4 of those players made all pro type impacts within their first 2 seasons.

The only all pro Pioli has picked out of his 3 drafts has been Berry.

Who was all pro within 2 seasons?


Maybe Bowe. Maybe.


This is something i've been thinking about with all the "the core guys are from Peterson" talk.

They are, no arguing that. However, this is Pioli's 4th year at the helm. So at best, this is the 4th year in the league for some of his picks and 3rd year from some, so on and so on.

Some of his picks have the potential to become cornerstones(Houston, Berry obviously, Baldwin, Poe, Hudson, Asamoah, Jackson, etc). Potential. They are still young pups in the league, we have no idea what they will become yet.

However, in my opinion, there in-lies the problem with Pioli's formula he seems to be using here. He's tried to build up the overall talent of the team and done a pretty good job of it. Has drafted some guys that have potential to become stars in the league and some guys who aren't still in the league, so yeah of course he's missed on some picks. But, by building the team first and not having the QB, it makes it much tougher. If you have the "Guy" at qb, you can still win games and keep your job while this young talent you have done your homework on and drafted grows into what you vision them becoming.

Pioli might have done a great job putting together this roster, but if they don't win now, he's not likely to be around when the real fruit comes to bear, so to say. Which is why it seems like the bass ackwards way of doing things.

Look at the Lions. Roster for Roster, I'd say we would stack up pretty favorably and likely be ahead in some areas.

But they have a star at QB. Legit gunslinging star, who can carry them while they continue to build the roster into what they want. It's that part that Pioli seems to be really great at doing. He's built a talented, while unproven at alot of places, roster. He just went about it the wrong way, if that makes any sense.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 10:03 PM
If you are a gm in this league going after a qb at all costs and then building the roster has a better chance of working out quicker than building and then getting the qb. Obviously police tried getting the qb but it should have been a 1 yr trial. He continues to make his job harder waiting for a chance in the draft instead of making one no matter the cost.

O.city
09-03-2012, 10:05 PM
If you are a gm in this league going after a qb at all costs and then building the roster has a better chance of working out quicker than building and then getting the qb. Obviously police tried getting the qb but it should have been a 1 yr trial. He continues to make his job harder waiting for a chance in the draft instead of making one no matter the cost.

This is where you come to an impass. You want to keep building the roster by not giving up picks, but without the right QB, what exactly are you building for.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 10:10 PM
Who was all pro within 2 seasons?


Maybe Bowe. Maybe.


This is something i've been thinking about with all the "the core guys are from Peterson" talk.

They are, no arguing that. However, this is Pioli's 4th year at the helm. So at best, this is the 4th year in the league for some of his picks and 3rd year from some, so on and so on.

Some of his picks have the potential to become cornerstones(Houston, Berry obviously, Baldwin, Poe, Hudson, Asamoah, Jackson, etc). Potential. They are still young pups in the league, we have no idea what they will become yet.

However, in my opinion, there in-lies the problem with Pioli's formula he seems to be using here. He's tried to build up the overall talent of the team and done a pretty good job of it. Has drafted some guys that have potential to become stars in the league and some guys who aren't still in the league, so yeah of course he's missed on some picks. But, by building the team first and not having the QB, it makes it much tougher. If you have the "Guy" at qb, you can still win games and keep your job while this young talent you have done your homework on and drafted grows into what you vision them becoming.

Pioli might have done a great job putting together this roster, but if they don't win now, he's not likely to be around when the real fruit comes to bear, so to say. Which is why it seems like the bass ackwards way of doing things.

Look at the Lions. Roster for Roster, I'd say we would stack up pretty favorably and likely be ahead in some areas.

But they have a star at QB. Legit gunslinging star, who can carry them while they continue to build the roster into what they want. It's that part that Pioli seems to be really great at doing. He's built a talented, while unproven at alot of places, roster. He just went about it the wrong way, if that makes any sense.


Flowers, Bowe, and Charles are 3 players who looked to be future stars within their first 2 seasons.

I am not denying Pioli has done a solid job rounding out the roster, but there are some things that bother me, picking a solid 3/4 DE with the third pick in the draft. Let me ask you something, would you have picked him first? Because we were not that far off.

Signing Matt Cassel to a long term deal and giving him Drew Brees money overshadows anything Pioli has done.

Remember, as to rounding out the roster I give him some credit, but building the foundation he has failed, and failed hard. Everyone acts like we have a good roster. Why? Where is the depth? Our backups continue to get killed during the preseason. It is sad to think that in our 4th season we are still struggling with depth issues most notably the CB position. I guess Pioli didn't learn last year.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 10:10 PM
This is where you come to an impass. You want to keep building the roster by not giving up picks, but without the right QB, what exactly are you building for.

There is no question giving up picks will probably hurt short term but I think odds are, nearly guaranteed if you hit on the qb, you will be better quicker. I would take an average team with a very good qb over a very good roster with an average qb. I would take it without blinking.

O.city
09-03-2012, 10:11 PM
There is no question giving up picks will probably hurt short term but I think odds are, nearly guaranteed if you hit on the qb, you will be better quicker. I would take an average team with a very good gm over a very good roster with an average qb. I would take it without blinking.

I assume you meant average team with good QB?

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 10:14 PM
I assume you meant average team with good QB?

Yeah.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 10:14 PM
There is no question giving up picks will probably hurt short term but I think odds are, nearly guaranteed if you hit on the qb, you will be better quicker. I would take an average team with a very good gm over a very good roster with an average qb. I would take it without blinking.


Most of the teams in the NFL that are successful have drafted qb's either in the first or second round.

O.city
09-03-2012, 10:15 PM
Yeah, I would too.



But I'd really like to have a great team with a great QB.


I'm not as down on Pioli as some but I'm also not as high on him as some. He's done a pretty solid job building the roster, but without the QB it might prove to be an exercise in futility.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 10:17 PM
Yeah, I would too.



But I'd really like to have a great team with a great QB.


I'm not as down on Pioli as some but I'm also not as high on him as some. He's done a pretty solid job building the roster, but without the QB it might prove to be an exercise in futility.

His mistakes, or perhaps his non-hits if you will, have been magnified by not having a qb.

O.city
09-03-2012, 10:18 PM
He has had some mistakes, but like Boss pointed out, he's actually done a great job drafting guys.

He just hasn't gotten the bus driver yet.

Chiefshrink
09-03-2012, 10:19 PM
Their offensive line sucks.

Their defense is soft and looks like the worst tackling defense in the league.

They have no MLB.

They have no safeties.

Ryan chokes in big games.

He's 0-2 when starting the season on the road.

The Falcons have never won at Arrowhead.

You know, BlackBob, as a therapist I expose denial everyday and for a moment here as I initially read your post I thought to myself, "BlackBob is not in denial he raises legit points UNTIL I was reminded who our QB is with Lewis and Hali out with Flowers and Toribio very gimpy and questionable.

Good try though man!!! For a moment there I was positive and that moment was a brief sigh of relief but then reality hit:doh!: But sincerely I thank you for that brief moment of fresh air:D

BossChief
09-03-2012, 10:27 PM
Its not just drafting guys, either.

He has done a good job getting us talent via free agency, too.

Hillis
Boss
Winston
Routt
Lilja (as a stop gap)
Weigmann (stop gap)
Breaston
Elam
Draughn
maneri
Pitoitua
Smith

I know Im missing somebody, but thats not a bad list of free agent talent he has signed.

O.city
09-03-2012, 10:29 PM
As a Chiefs fan, we all better pray to you can add



Cassel (stop gap) to the list.



I can't for the life of me believe that Pioli, a guy who has a pretty good eye for talent, think Matt Cassel is a legit leader.

BossChief
09-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Cassel is a good leader, he just isnt a good quarterback at this level.

NJChiefsFan
09-03-2012, 10:37 PM
It's true he hasn't really passed over a ton of replacements, although there have been some. This yr won't be different if we get a low 20 s high teens pick. At some point he is going to have to force the issue

Count Alex's Losses
09-03-2012, 11:19 PM
arguably 3 more that could be considered starters in DMC, Arenas and Moeaki)

This is why people make fun of you for being a homer and a blowjob artist for Scott Pioli.

DMC is a #4 WR.

Arenas is a NCB who played 382 snaps last year.

Those guys don't play a starter's role, nor do they even have the talent to start. At any position.

TEX
09-03-2012, 11:23 PM
He has had some mistakes, but like Boss pointed out, he's actually done a great job drafting guys.

He just hasn't gotten the bus driver yet.

Tha G.M. just can't swing and miss on a QB and HC. IMO, he's done it twice with the HC.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 11:24 PM
Its not just drafting guys, either.

He has done a good job getting us talent via free agency, too.

Hillis
Boss
Winston
Routt
Lilja (as a stop gap)
Weigmann (stop gap)
Breaston
Elam
Draughn
maneri
Pitoitua
Smith

I know Im missing somebody, but thats not a bad list of free agent talent he has signed.


Some of these guys have not even played for us yet. What about depth? We are still struggling with depth despite what we went through last year. For having 4 offseasons that is nothing to brag about.

Routt? Really? You forgot to list Matt Cassel

Count Alex's Losses
09-03-2012, 11:26 PM
The bust rate for 2nd rounders is 50 percent. 3rd round? 70

So Pioli, the highest paid GM in football, is excused from picking Dexter McCluster. Got it.

BigMeatballDave
09-03-2012, 11:27 PM
Tha G.M. just can't swing and miss on a QB and HC. IMO, he's done it twice with the HC.

I'm not concerned about HC as much as QB.

QB is FAR more important.

See Tony Dungy.

Saccopoo
09-03-2012, 11:29 PM
Yeah, I would too.



But I'd really like to have a great team with a great QB.


I'm not as down on Pioli as some but I'm also not as high on him as some. He's done a pretty solid job building the roster, but without the QB it might prove to be an exercise in futility.

Who do you want him to take the past three years?

Sanchez? Clausen? Weeden?

Let's be serious, the Chiefs, under Pioli, really haven't had the opportunity to pick a first rounder that wasn't a complete reach.

I'm all for picking a QB in the first round, but let's get a good QB versus reach for a project.

Next year is the year. You've got four guys who'll get graded out as first round prospects. Cassel's contract is over in 2014. The media is now putting on the full press for a QB. So's the fan base. The 2013 draft is the one where a really good QB is going to be there for the Chiefs and it won't be a reach.

Deberg_1990
09-03-2012, 11:34 PM
Who do you want him to take the past three years?

Sanchez? Clausen? Weeden?

Let's be serious, the Chiefs, under Pioli, really haven't had the opportunity to pick a first rounder that wasn't a complete reach.

I'm all for picking a QB in the first round, but let's get a good QB versus reach for a project.

Next year is the year. You've got four guys who'll get graded out as first round prospects. Cassel's contract is over in 2014. The media is now putting on the full press for a QB. So's the fan base. The 2013 draft is the one where a really good QB is going to be there for the Chiefs and it won't be a reach.


So you expect the Chiefs to be bad again and draft top 10 again? That's the only way they get a top QB. And even that's iffy. I've stopped worrying so much about who they draft. None of us can change anything anyways.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigMeatballDave
09-03-2012, 11:35 PM
So you expect the Chiefs to be bad again and draft top 10 again? That's the only way they get a top QB. And even that's iffy. I've stopped worrying so much about who they draft. None of us can change anything anyways.
Posted via Mobile Device

All 4 QBs won't be drafted top 10.

New World Order
09-03-2012, 11:37 PM
Who do you want him to take the past three years?

Sanchez? Clausen? Weeden?

Let's be serious, the Chiefs, under Pioli, really haven't had the opportunity to pick a first rounder that wasn't a complete reach.

I'm all for picking a QB in the first round, but let's get a good QB versus reach for a project.

Next year is the year. You've got four guys who'll get graded out as first round prospects. Cassel's contract is over in 2014. The media is now putting on the full press for a QB. So's the fan base. The 2013 draft is the one where a really good QB is going to be there for the Chiefs and it won't be a reach.


Andy Dalton, Michael Vick, Russell Wilson Tj Yates, Josh Freeman off of the top of my head.

Cassel has shown without a run game he is ineffective, I would rather have any of the qb's above than Cassel

Deberg_1990
09-03-2012, 11:37 PM
All 4 QBs won't be drafted top 10.

Probably true. But to have a decent shot at a top guy you have to be bad. Aaron Rodgers only happen once in a blue moon.
Posted via Mobile Device

Saccopoo
09-03-2012, 11:38 PM
So you expect the Chiefs to be bad again and draft top 10 again? That's the only way they get a top QB. And even that's iffy. I've stopped worrying so much about who they draft. None of us can change anything anyways.
Posted via Mobile Device

No, I expect one of those four guys to be there when the Chiefs pick. Barkley, Wilson, Smith or Jones. Near identical skill sets that would really fit with the team and coaching staff as it now stands. And you can throw Glennon into the mix if he has a big year. He's a very nice player as well.

Four, possibly five, QB's that are first round material. The Chiefs will have the opportunity to get one and with Cassel's contract expiring in 2014 and Quinn and Stanzi's lacklusterness, the media and fan pressure, solid young players at most positions, it's gonna happen. I'm smelling QB in 2013 for the Chiefs.

Count Alex's Losses
09-03-2012, 11:58 PM
Pioli is not going to pick a QB.

He made zero effort to replace or push Cassel this past offseason when it made a mountain of sense to do so.

Would have been really easy to sign Kyle Orton and have him waiting in the wings if Cassel started 0-3 again.

Russell Wilson or Nick Foles would have been excellent picks. Both offer far more potential, and have more ability than Quinn or Stanzi.

Pioli just isn't interested in any other QBs.

He's got his guy.

Only way to get rid of Cassel is to get rid of Pioli. I firmly believe that.

BigMeatballDave
09-03-2012, 11:59 PM
Pioli is not going to pick a QB.

He made zero effort to replace or push Cassel this past offseason when it made a mountain of sense to do so.

Would have been really easy to sign Kyle Orton and have him waiting in the wings if Cassel started 0-3 again.

Orton LMAO

Come on, man.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Orton is a lot better than Quinn. No one can argue than that.

This is easily a 10-6/11-5 team with Kyle Orton.

With Cassel? Might be a 7 or 8 win team.

Sign Kyle Orton and you at least present the picture that you tried to find a viable alternative.

Quinn was a BS signing that only true fans put any value in.

New World Order
09-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Orton LMAO

Come on, man.



Orton threw for more YPG and passing first downs, had a better rating and record than Cassel did in 2011 with the Chiefs. He did that with about 6 days worth of practice with a team he had never played with before. Even if he didn't start here he would of been a viable backup to Cassel.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:05 AM
God dammit.

I swear to god I am not New World Order.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Andy Dalton, Michael Vick, Russell Wilson Tj Yates, Josh Freeman off of the top of my head.

Cassel has shown without a run game he is ineffective, I would rather have any of the qb's above than Cassel

C'mon man.

If the Chiefs picked any of those guys in the first or second round, this place would have imploded and I wouldn't have touched Dog Killer with a ten foot pole when he was parolled.

That those guys worked out, and Dalton, Wilson and Freeman all have more to prove regardless, is irrelevant. Freeman was a reach and Dalton, Wilson and Yates aren't/weren't first round talents. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are really lucky as the Colts were this draft.

However, there are four, maybe five guys this next draft who are basically the same player. All very good QB's. One should be available when the Chiefs pick. If they don't, they don't, but the opportunity to grab a real first round guy is going to be there this next draft. Or it should. You never know what lunatic team trades up or whathaveyou, but in a straight forward draft, this is going to be the Chiefs best opportunity to get a graded out first round guy since Aaron Rogers and Brady Quinn. (Though, oddly enough, we now have Quinn. Maybe the team is okay with/agrees with Coogs and thinks he's the QBOTF.)

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 12:12 AM
Orton threw for more YPG and passing first downs, had a better rating and record than Cassel did in 2011 with the Chiefs. He did that with about 6 days worth of practice with a team he had never played with before. Even if he didn't start here he would of been a viable backup to Cassel.

LMAO You're comparing him to Cassel?

Not a good measuring stick.

Yes, Orton played well, but struggled in the red zone.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 12:13 AM
Orton is a lot better than Quinn. No one can argue than that.

This is easily a 10-6/11-5 team with Kyle Orton.

With Cassel? Might be a 7 or 8 win team.

Sign Kyle Orton and you at least present the picture that you tried to find a viable alternative.

Quinn was a BS signing that only true fans put any value in.

Holy shit. Did you watch any of Dallas' preseason games? Orton was fucking atrocious. Beyond bad.

Fuck that noise.

Quinn is a total upgrade to that pile of monkey shit.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 12:14 AM
God dammit.

I swear to god I am not New World Order.

I don't know...you both have the same rep. LMAO

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 12:15 AM
Orton is a lot better than Quinn. No one can argue than that.

This is easily a 10-6/11-5 team with Kyle Orton.

With Cassel? Might be a 7 or 8 win team.

Sign Kyle Orton and you at least present the picture that you tried to find a viable alternative.

Quinn was a BS signing that only true fans put any value in.

His red zone play was garbage.

I'm not gonna argue about this because he was not the answer.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Holy shit. Did you watch any of Dallas' preseason games? Orton was fucking atrocious. Beyond bad.

Fuck that noise.

Quinn is a total upgrade to that pile of monkey shit.

Based on several years of NFL play, Orton drops nuclear bombs on Brady Quinn's Hiroshima and/or Nagasaki.

Fuck preseason.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 12:18 AM
Holy shit. Did you watch any of Dallas' preseason games? Orton was fucking atrocious. Beyond bad.

Fuck that noise.

Quinn is a total upgrade to that pile of monkey shit.

Orton's problem is he just doesn't give a shit.

That's why he went to Dallas.

Didn't have to worry about competing for a starting job and got a nice contract.

New World Order
09-04-2012, 12:26 AM
C'mon man.

If the Chiefs picked any of those guys in the first or second round, this place would have imploded and I wouldn't have touched Dog Killer with a ten foot pole when he was parolled.

That those guys worked out, and Dalton, Wilson and Freeman all have more to prove regardless, is irrelevant. Freeman was a reach and Dalton, Wilson and Yates aren't/weren't first round talents. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are really lucky as the Colts were this draft.

However, there are four, maybe five guys this next draft who are basically the same player. All very good QB's. One should be available when the Chiefs pick. If they don't, they don't, but the opportunity to grab a real first round guy is going to be there this next draft. Or it should. You never know what lunatic team trades up or whathaveyou, but in a straight forward draft, this is going to be the Chiefs best opportunity to get a graded out first round guy since Aaron Rogers and Brady Quinn. (Though, oddly enough, we now have Quinn. Maybe the team is okay with/agrees with Coogs and thinks he's the QBOTF.)



You (Or someone else) asked who I would rather have at qb and I told you.

We both know Pioli won't pick a qb in the first round. I agree it's a great idea but it will not happen.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 12:39 AM
You (Or someone else) asked who I would rather have at qb and I told you.

We both know Pioli won't pick a qb in the first round. I agree it's a great idea but it will not happen.

I'm not talking about hindsight you tool. There was no way that anyone was taking any of those guys for this team before they were drafted. And Vick was a total coach killer, let alone canines.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-04-2012, 09:54 AM
Tell Orton the reward is a bottle of jack and he may lead the team to 11 wins.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 10:57 AM
You can find a guy like Arenas in the 3rd or 4th round.

He was overdrafted, period.

Maybe if he brought Hester-like value to the return game, he'd be worth that pick. He doesn't.

So what DB was taken in the 3rd or 4th round of that draft that is better than Arenas, and has the 3rd highest PR av. in the league?
Arenas also played 60% of the teams defensive snaps last season, so he's nearly considered a starter, and a well above average one.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 11:01 AM
So Pioli, the highest paid GM in football, is excused from picking Dexter McCluster. Got it.

Show me one GM in the league who hit a home run with every pick. They don't exist. Pioli has drafted as well as any GM in the league, and if you don't agree, I'd like to see a couple of examples.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Oh, and are you taking my bet or not?, I'll even allow you to start, and post in the Gif'd up thread, as long as I can post in that thread as well if i lose. That will at least be able to stop you from shitting in every thread.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Show me one GM in the league who hit a home run with every pick. They don't exist. Pioli has drafted as well as any GM in the league, and if you don't agree, I'd like to see a couple of examples.

I'm too lazy, but someone should compare the Chiefs drafts from 09-11 with Baltimore(De Costa) and Atlanta(Dimitroff).

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm too lazy, but someone should compare the Chiefs drafts from 09-11 with Baltimore(De Costa) and Atlanta(Dimitroff).

I would bet that we have added a comparable amount of quality starters as those teams have, and those teams also have some guys that didn't pan out as well. We have very very few players who have actually completely washed out. McCluster was over drafted, but it's not as if he is a complete wash out.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 11:19 AM
I would bet that we have added a comparable amount of quality starters as those teams have, and those teams also have some guys that didn't pan out as well. We have very very few players who have actually completely washed out. McCluster was over drafted, but it's not as if he is a complete wash out.

Overall, I'm pleased with Pioli's drafts.

Were he's failed is Cassel.

Detoxing
09-04-2012, 11:41 AM
So Pioli, the highest paid GM in football, is excused from picking Dexter McCluster. Got it.

Ha. Didn't take you long, did it?

What other McCluster bets you still have on the table?

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 11:44 AM
Ha. Didn't take you long, did it?

What other McCluster bets you still have on the table?

If McCluster gets 40 catches, I have his sig for 6 months. If he gets 50, I have it for a year, If he gets under 20, he has mine for a year, and that all starts after he loses his 300 touches for Charles bet with Boss.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Doesn't he get tired of Dex owning his ass? It's like Homer reaching for the donut and getting shocked over and over and over and over...

tooge
09-04-2012, 11:49 AM
I t hink the chiefs will lose. In fact, I think they lose convincingly. Maybe by 10 to 13 pts. However, I think that Daboll showed in the first and last preseason games that this team will be capable of running the ball when they make it a gameplan to do so. This game, perhaps more than any other will depend on keeping Matt Ryan off the field as much as possible. The entire advantage of the Falcons is in their top ten passing attack vs our depleted pass defense for this game. If the chiefs run the ball like I think they can, they can control the time of possession perhaps 33 to 27 minutes or better. If they do that, then I could see a scenario where they keep it fairly close, but I still see them losing.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Doesn't he get tired of Dex owning his ass? It's like Homer reaching for the donut and getting shocked over and over and over and over...

He wants to be right about Dex being garbage so bad but he's just not. The guy was over drafted. He needs to just get over that fact, and realize, that he can and will be productive. Like I was saying about he, and Arenas. People are so mad about where they were drafted, that they just can't let themselves realize that they are not bad players. Especially Arenas. With the health of our secondary, people should be thanking God that we have Arenas. He may be the 2nd best CB on our roster at this point.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 12:35 PM
If McCluster gets 40 catches, I have his sig for 6 months. If he gets 50, I have it for a year, If he gets under 20, he has mine for a year, and that all starts after he loses his 300 touches for Charles bet with Boss.

If the Chiefs win 10, none of this matters because he won't be around for a yr.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:39 PM
Arenas also played 60% of the teams defensive snaps last season, so he's nearly considered a starter, and a well above average one.

This was already debunked.

He played 382 snaps.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:40 PM
Oh, and are you taking my bet or not?, I'll even allow you to start, and post in the Gif'd up thread, as long as I can post in that thread as well if i lose. That will at least be able to stop you from shitting in every thread.

No.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:42 PM
Doesn't he get tired of Dex owning his ass? It's like Homer reaching for the donut and getting shocked over and over and over and over...

I won my Dex bet with KC Tat.

I'll win this next one.

#4 wideouts don't get 40 catches.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 12:43 PM
He wants to be right about Dex being garbage so bad but he's just not. The guy was over drafted. He needs to just get over that fact, and realize, that he can and will be productive.

It remains to be seen.

Outside of preseason games, where he has done precious little to be honest, he has done nothing in this league.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Yeah racking up 800 total yards in a season is doing "nothing".

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:29 PM
They were garbage yards. This has already been discussed.

His garbage yards and inability to make plays as a RB is why he is no longer a RB.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:42 PM
No.

So you're not so sure we're gonna get nuked by ATL huh?
Troll.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:42 PM
This was already debunked.

He played 382 snaps.

How many snaps did the Defense have??

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:43 PM
They were garbage yards. This has already been discussed.

His garbage yards and inability to make plays as a RB is why he is no longer a RB.

Oh Bull fucking SHIT.

Garbage yards? Give me a fucking break.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:45 PM
How many snaps did the Defense have??

Over 1,000.

Try reading the thread. LMAO

Or just realizing that 60 snaps x 16 = a large number

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:46 PM
Oh Bull fucking SHIT.

Garbage yards? Give me a fucking break.

Yes, garbage yards.

Yards that any brokedick RB could have gained.

He is not a special player with the ball in his hands. Not particularly fast or elusive at all.

Now that he's been removed from the RB depth chart, because he sucked as a RB, we'll see if he can improve as a WR.

He'll get about 10 snaps a game as a #4 WR to do that. LMAO

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:47 PM
I cannot WAIT for this team to snuff you outta here.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Over 1,000.

Try reading the thread. LMAO

Or just realizing that 60 snaps x 16 = a large number

You have over 120,000 posts. 106,000 more than me, and probably 75,000 more than some of the most active posters. I have 2 jobs and a kid. I can't read every thread.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:53 PM
You could read this thread. You know, the one you're trying to post in? LMAO

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:54 PM
I cannot WAIT for this team to snuff you outta here.

We'll be 1-3 in a month, at best, and I'll be accepting your apologies.

Or will you continue to be obtuse?

"This team can win 9 of it's last 12 games. Look at the schedule." LMAO

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:55 PM
You could read this thread. You know, the one you're trying to post in? LMAO

Haven't read the whole thread. I actually work while I'm here. You're mom's basement has pretty low rent, I'm sure. My mortgage is 1300 a month. I have to be productive to pay the bills..

"Mom..The Meatloaf!!!"

Mr. Laz
09-04-2012, 01:55 PM
LOL@ all the people talking about how good our pass defense is

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 01:57 PM
We'll be 1-3 in a month, at best, and I'll be accepting your apologies.

Or will you continue to be obtuse?

"This team can win 9 of it's last 12 games. Look at the schedule." LMAO

You should use the word "obtuse" more.
Like I said, I love the fact that this team's success is going to be you're noose.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:58 PM
Haven't read the whole thread. I actually work. While I'm here. You're mom's basement has pretty low rent. My mortgage is 1300 a month. I have to be productive to pay the bills..

"Mom..The Meatloaf!!!"

I have a full time job. I post while working. I just stepped off a plane.

I was posting while I was on the plane.

I don't want to hear your excuses for failing at posting.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 01:59 PM
This thread started three days ago...no reason for you not to have read it before you came in here spewing ignorance....

Failtribe.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 02:00 PM
I have a full time job. I post while working. I just stepped off a plane.

I was posting while I was on the plane.

I don't want to hear your excuses for failing at posting.

I don't have to make excuses for not having 128,000 posts, and having time to read through every thread.
What is your job exactly?

Insert lie here

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 02:01 PM
LMAO

How many posts do you have in this thread now?

We're talking about one thread....you silly bitch.

Try reading something before adding ignorance to the discussion...

Anyway, glad to own you in the Arenas debate.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 02:02 PM
This thread started three days ago...no reason for you not to have read it before you came in here spewing ignorance....

Failtribe.

I left for my 2nd job right after I posted the bet that you pussed out of, and have been in and out of this one while actually WORKING today. I still haven't read it all.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 02:05 PM
I didn't puss out.

I don't want to see you removed from the forum for any length of time.

You're too much fun.

You are Batman and I am the Joker.

Some men...just want to watch Chiefsplanet burn.

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 02:17 PM
LMAO

How many posts do you have in this thread now?

We're talking about one thread....you silly bitch.

Try reading something before adding ignorance to the discussion...

Anyway, glad to own you in the Arenas debate.


You can't own anything. Your football takes are completely without merit because of all the bets you have lost, and are going to lose. You have yet to be right in any situation that you thought was important enough to place a wager on. the bet with Tattoo was ridiculous, and doesn't count and you know it. Get back to me after you actually win one of the bets you have.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2012, 02:18 PM
I have a full time job. I post while working. I just stepped off a plane.

I was posting while I was on the plane.

I don't want to hear your excuses for failing at posting.
yea ... this sounds like a load of bullshit

beach tribe
09-04-2012, 02:20 PM
I didn't puss out.

I don't want to see you removed from the forum for any length of time.

You're too much fun.

You are Batman and I am the Joker.

Some men...just want to watch Chiefsplanet burn.

good one LMAO

whoman69
09-04-2012, 02:29 PM
I tried to create an account on ESPN to do Cowherd's Eliminator challenge just to pick Atlanta in week one. This thing is as close to a lock as you can find in the NFL. All signs point to Atlanta.

Detoxing
09-04-2012, 02:31 PM
My gut feeling says Atlanta is going to blow the Chiefs out.

This coulda been a great game if half our defense wasn't sitting out.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Bullshit excuse. Bullshit excuse. Bullshit excuse.

*Yawn*

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 02:36 PM
the bet with Tattoo was ridiculous, and doesn't count and you know it..

LMAO

And predicting that a #4 WR will catch 40 balls in a run-first offense isn't ridiculous?

Shit, you think he might grab 50. LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-04-2012, 02:36 PM
I tried to create an account on ESPN to do Cowherd's Eliminator challenge just to pick Atlanta in week one. This thing is as close to a lock as you can find in the NFL. All signs point to Atlanta.

Umm, no. NFC road favorite at Arrowhead is far from a lock. They aren't in thier little Dome this week.

htismaqe
09-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Umm, no. NFC road favorite at Arrowhead is far from a lock. They aren't in thier little Dome this week.

Exactly.

I can remember a dozen times in the last 20 years that a top NFC team came in here and got beat by an inferior Chiefs team, including last year's Green Bay game.

I think Atlanta wins and my gut says by a lot. But my head is telling me history suggests otherwise.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 02:46 PM
I think Atlanta wins and my gut says by a lot. But my head is telling me history suggests otherwise.

Should I roll tape of Cassel sucking ass against the Giants and Cowboys in 2009?

That Packers game was nice, but Kyle Orton isn't walking through that door.

Nuccah
09-04-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm going to tell you how to beat my Falcons:

On Offense -

Run the fucking ball. Don't try anything to the edges, except in nickel when Asante Samuel is on the field otherwise Robinson or the OLBs will catch Charles. Go up the middle, get a blocker on Dent as he is a great tackler but doesn't shed blocks like Lofton could. If Charles is the carrier, get a blocker on the safety Moore or he will take a blow you don't want to see him take. If its Hillis, Moore is just as likely to hurt himself as Hillis.

Don't, under any circumstance, try comebacks, curls, or out-routes at Samuels or Grimes. You run a significant chance of a pick by Grimes or a pick 6 by Asante. Only elite QBs can pull those throws off on them. Play action and slants are probably your best bets. The starting CB trio of Asante, Robinson, and Grimes gave up a total of 111 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 INTs on Post and Corner routes last year, so might consider abandoning that option.

In pass protection, double Abraham and keep a close eye on Robinson. With Nolans scheme, blitzes will come from everywhere, but Moore & Robinson are especially dangerous as blitzers. Babineaux will get occasional pressure, and Peria Jerry has looked dominant so far this offseason, frequently the first player off the ball (although that has led to these replacement refs calling absurd offside penalties). He has not learned to use his hands well yet, his burst is his biggest asset.

On Defense -

The offensive line is not as big a mess as people try to make it out to be. There are, however, two weak links - Sam Baker at LT although he has looked significantly improved this preseason and Reynolds at RG who looks his usual horrid self. Don't put your best pass rusher against Clabo at RT, as he is rated by PFF as one of the best pass blocking RT's in the NFL.

Against the running game - it is all on your front 7. You won't get help from your safeties without getting completely burned by either Jones or White on a PA. None of our 'backs are particularly effective to the outside. Can catch Turner in the backfield, as he has lost a significant amount of burst. Rodgers, however, will find the creases if you try to catch him in the backfield.

Koetter's scheme is a lot more complicated than Mularkey's. The biggest problem Atlanta's OL had in the past was the absolute refusal to run screens to slow down the pass rush. This is now a big emphasis by Koetter and has been very effective throughout the preseason leading Matt Ryan to not even be touched before the 3rd game against Miami.

Matt Ryan's deep ball is still a work in progress. However, Jones must be double covered at all times as it usually takes more than one more to take him down and his open field speed is excellent (ran a 4.3x 40 with a fractured foot). White is more of a possession receiver, but can get open down field against slower/less experienced corners.

Douglas is a total wildcard. He might show up, he might not. We might look at him, we might not. Nobody ever really knows.

TG will be his usual self. Don't let Ryan have the time to find him as he is usually the 3rd option now.

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 05:37 PM
Don't, under any circumstance, try comebacks, curls, or out-routes at Samuels or Grimes.

LMAO

That's all our QB can do. That and hit 2-yard drag patterns and slants.

The starting CB trio of Asante, Robinson, and Grimes gave up a total of 111 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 INTs on Post and Corner routes last year, so might consider abandoning that option.

We abandon that option against every defense.

mcaj22
09-04-2012, 05:43 PM
yea those CBs are going to jump at every piece of crap stationary route pass Cassel throws

definitely at least 2 picks for Cassel and probably a fumble for giggles as well. He will let some turd sack him because he will get rattled once he throws his first pick. Then he will go to the bench and do something stupid out of frustration like not put a fucking hat on correctly without looking like an idiot. And thus our season in a nutshell is the Snowballing Cassel Gameday Approach

Count Alex's Losses
09-04-2012, 05:45 PM
yea those CBs are going to jump at every piece of crap stationary route pass Cassel throws

definitely at least 2 picks for Cassel and probably a fumble for giggles as well. He will let some turd sack him because he will get rattled once he throws his first pick. Then he will go to the bench and do something stupid out of frustration like not put a fucking hat on correctly without looking like an idiot. And thus our season in a nutshell is the Snowballing Cassel Gameday Approach

http://pichars.org/store/8339_original_YesJackNicholson.gif

This would be a perfect game.

Especially if Dexter catches about 7 balls for 36 yards, and we score 13 points.

O.city
09-04-2012, 05:49 PM
You actually want us to lose?


I get being pessimistic but why be a fan at all

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 05:50 PM
But they have a star at QB. Legit gunslinging star, who can carry them while they continue to build the roster into what they want. It's that part that Pioli seems to be really great at doing. He's built a talented, while unproven at alot of places, roster. He just went about it the wrong way, if that makes any sense.

And I ask again, who was he supposed to take at QB that would have justified the pick?

We weren't getting Stafford. We weren't getting Bradford. We weren't getting Luck or Griffin.

So...Sanchez? Tebow? Clausen? Weeden?

You dont' pick a QB just to pick a QB. You don't reach for a position just to pick that said position. And if they picked up a guy like Dalton, Foles, Wilson, etc., there is about a 98.9% chance that they were going to be second or third string anyway.

Especially when you had a quarterback on roster who was fresh off a Pro Bowl appearance in 2010.

They picked up Stanzi because he represented the best pick for the team right then and there. Other than that, you could argue that the guys they picked were better players for the team needs versus a QB at the various spots.

However, as Cassel is nearing the end of his contract (2014), Quinn hasn't necessarily distinguished himself and Stanzi is only a second year guy, I can see them looking at the position earnestly in the 2013 draft where there are four, maybe five guys who will end up with first round grades, not including the potential juniors who could, which might be up to three that would receive high draft grades as well. It's a monster QB class just considering the seniors.

They/he (Pioli) has ignored the QB position because he really didn't need to address it to this point because Cassel is a decent (not great) QB who had a Pro Bowl level season in 2010 and there really wasn't a guaranteed starter stud that they could have selected when they have picked the past three drafts. That's going to change this next draft - possibly.

OnTheWarpath58
09-04-2012, 05:51 PM
You don't reach for a position just to pick that said position.

Yet that's exactly what they did regarding Tyson Jackson.

O.city
09-04-2012, 05:57 PM
At this point in time, the nfl is all about the qb. You can't sit around and wait for one, gotta be proactive


So there wasn't a guy available when we picked, there were guys available via trading picks etc

OnTheWarpath58
09-04-2012, 06:08 PM
At this point in time, the nfl is all about the qb. You can't sit around and wait for one, gotta be proactive


So there wasn't a guy available when we picked, there were guys available via trading picks etc

Exactly this.

I'm sick of the excuses:

"QB X, Y and Z weren't available."

"This place would have gone nuts had we "reached" on QB A, B or C."

"QB D, E and F are shitty with their current teams, therefore they would have been shitty here."

"The QB class of [insert year here] is better anyway, I guarantee Pioli will take one then."

It's all bullshit.

RGIII supposedly wasn't available to the Redskins.

Who gives a shit if people here shit bricks if we "reach" for a QB? If he pans out, no one will be bitching. If he doesn't, we try again. I'd rather try and fail 10 times with QB's than take even one Tyson Jackson.

No one has any clue how other QB's would have played here, or for that matter, how the rest of their career will turn out. Some of you have declared young QB's busts after one poor season - even if it was preceded by a phenomenal one.

Enough with the bullshit excuses. Grow a pair, and take a QB in R1.

And if you fail, do it again until you succeed.

Brock
09-04-2012, 06:24 PM
And I ask again, who was he supposed to take at QB that would have justified the pick?

We weren't getting Stafford. We weren't getting Bradford. We weren't getting Luck or Griffin.

So...Sanchez? Tebow? Clausen? Weeden?

You dont' pick a QB just to pick a QB. You don't reach for a position just to pick that said position. And if they picked up a guy like Dalton, Foles, Wilson, etc., there is about a 98.9% chance that they were going to be second or third string anyway.

Especially when you had a quarterback on roster who was fresh off a Pro Bowl appearance in 2010.





Joe Flacco? I realize that's pre-Pioli.

Also, this team reaches for players all the time. It's silly and pretentious to act like they haven't done it over and over.

O.city
09-04-2012, 06:27 PM
Onthewp is pretty much right, save for the keep tryin thing. You may not get many chances if you go all in on a qb and fail but gotta have the nuts to try

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 06:49 PM
Onthewp is pretty much right, save for the keep tryin thing. You may not get many chances if you go all in on a qb and fail but gotta have the nuts to try

You try when the opportunity presents itself. You don't reach for mediocrity.

The Jackson argument is one that Pioli wins. We didn't have a true five tech on this roster when he came in and Jackson was the best potential for that position in that draft. And guess what? He's now playing like one of the best five techs in the league and the stats back him up.

At this point I sure as hell would rather have Jackson versus Sanchez. And this place would have went freaking ballistic if they picked Freeman at #3.

In fact, as it stands, I think you take only Clay Matthews and possibly BJ Raji over Jackson in that draft.

In 2010, we were not getting Bradford no matter how much you wanted to pony up. So, do you reach for Tebow over Eric Berry?

In 2011, quarterbacks went quick and a lot went much earlier than was anticipated. Were you willing to forgo Jon Baldwin and Rod Hudson to trade up for Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

In 2012, we were not getting Luck. Indy wasn't going to trade that pick for five full drafts. Griffin commanded a lot of picks...would you be willing to give up Poe, Allen and a shot at someone like Wilson, Jones, Smith or Bray in 2013?
Would you have been happy to give up multiple picks to move up for Tannehill and forgo the chance at previously said QB's in 2013?

It's about building a team, not mortaging your future on a position because we haven't picked that position in the first round in a while.

You all need to be a bit more objective and rational.

Brock
09-04-2012, 06:50 PM
Griffin commanded a lot of picks...would you be willing to give up Poe, Allen and a shot at someone like Wilson, Jones, Smith or Bray in 2013?
.

Is this a serious question?

mcaj22
09-04-2012, 06:52 PM
i would have been more excited about this season if it was Russel Wilson instead of the raw turd offensive lineman project we drafted.

I'm glad Pioli has a hard on for d-line and o-line in the draft.

the Talking Can
09-04-2012, 06:54 PM
You try when the opportunity presents itself. You don't reach for mediocrity.

The Jackson argument is one that Pioli wins. We didn't have a true five tech on this roster when he came in and Jackson was the best potential for that position in that draft. And guess what? He's now playing like one of the best five techs in the league and the stats back him up.

At this point I sure as hell would rather have Jackson versus Sanchez. And this place would have went freaking ballistic if they picked Freeman at #3.

In fact, as it stands, I think you take only Clay Matthews and possibly BJ Raji over Jackson in that draft.

In 2010, we were not getting Bradford no matter how much you wanted to pony up. So, do you reach for Tebow over Eric Berry?

In 2011, quarterbacks went quick and a lot went much earlier than was anticipated. Were you willing to forgo Jon Baldwin and Rod Hudson to trade up for Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

In 2012, we were not getting Luck. Indy wasn't going to trade that pick for five full drafts. Griffin commanded a lot of picks...would you be willing to give up Poe, Allen and a shot at someone like Wilson, Jones, Smith or Bray in 2013?
Would you have been happy to give up multiple picks to move up for Tannehill and forgo the chance at previously said QB's in 2013?

It's about building a team, not mortaging your future on a position because we haven't picked that position in the first round in a while.

You all need to be a bit more objective and rational.

would i give up poe for Griffin?

LMAOLMAO

you're applying the famous Chiefsplanet risk double standard

drafting a QB is risky

drafting an under achieving NT from a shitty conference is not risky

bottom line: we've spent 3 top eleven picks on the DL...and a 2nd on a backup QB

it's not defensible

Detoxing
09-04-2012, 06:56 PM
i would have been more excited about this season if it was Russel Wilson instead of the raw turd offensive lineman project we drafted.

I'm glad Pioli has a hard on for d-line and o-line in the draft.

Those O-linemen actually had a pretty good Preseason and showed flashes. Im kinda excited about them. The same way i was excited about Hudson last season.

Regarding the Wilson thing:

The Chiefs missed. As did 31 other teams. An un expected player emerges every year, bfd.

This fanbase, and likely Pioli, thought Stanzi would be our Wilson. Back to the drawing board with that one apparently.

Wish we woulda made a poll before the draft: Stanzi vs Wilson.

Remind me to do that with this coming draft so we can put an end to this revisionist shit.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 07:18 PM
i would have been more excited about this season if it was Russel Wilson instead of the raw turd offensive lineman project we drafted.

I'm glad Pioli has a hard on for d-line and o-line in the draft.

Only because he had a great preseason. If he doesn't blow up, or if Seattle did what every other team in the league would have done and put him behind the veteran, you wouldn't even know this guys name. The Wilson argument is bullshit. I didn't see a single person going apeshit that we didn't take this guy in the second or third round.

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 07:22 PM
would i give up poe for Griffin?

LMAOLMAO

you're applying the famous Chiefsplanet risk double standard

drafting a QB is risky

drafting an under achieving NT from a shitty conference is not risky

bottom line: we've spent 3 top eleven picks on the DL...and a 2nd on a backup QB

it's not defensible

Not just Poe. What did the Skins give up for Griffin? Three first round picks and a second.

He better be Joe Montana for that to pay off.

It's completely defensible.

the Talking Can
09-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Not just Poe. What did the Skins give up for Griffin? Three first round picks and a second.

He better be Joe Montana for that to pay off.

It's completely defensible.

yeah..much more important to have jackson and poe and mccluster...

like i said...this is old news, same shit we've heard from chiefs fans for decades...

"oh no! it risky!"

Caseyguyrr
09-04-2012, 07:26 PM
I'm extremely nervous for Sunday, keep having flashbacks of the horrifying opener from last year

Saccopoo
09-04-2012, 08:41 PM
yeah..much more important to have jackson and poe and mccluster...

like i said...this is old news, same shit we've heard from chiefs fans for decades...

"oh no! it risky!"

It's not risky to pick a QB in the first round.

It's risky to pick a QB in the first round just to pick one.

Like I said, the timing is right for one next draft. It's deep, the top four senior QB prospects are all very good QB's who are near identical in most comparable traits.

If they get the opportunity to get one next year and don't, I'm going to have a bit of a problem then, but I'm not going to bitch about missing out on picking Tebow, Sanchez, Clausen or even Freeman at this point just because we need to pick that position in the first round.

NJChiefsFan
09-04-2012, 09:08 PM
Yet that's exactly what they did regarding Tyson Jackson.

Great point. Probably why it was ignored by the person you were talking to.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2012, 09:21 PM
Not just Poe. What did the Skins give up for Griffin? Three first round picks and a second.

He better be Joe Montana for that to pay off.

It's completely defensible.

If you do not take a chance, you have no chance.

New World Order
09-04-2012, 09:26 PM
I'm not talking about hindsight you tool. There was no way that anyone was taking any of those guys for this team before they were drafted. And Vick was a total coach killer, let alone canines.



We took Tyson Jackson

NJChiefsFan
09-04-2012, 09:27 PM
We took Tyson Jackson

That point was already ignored.

mr. tegu
09-05-2012, 06:46 PM
Interesting stat from Mitch earlier today. Last season Falcons were 31st in converting on third down and were 29th on stopping the opponents on third down.

Count Alex's Losses
09-05-2012, 07:10 PM
Interesting stat from Mitch earlier today. Last season Falcons were 31st in converting on third down and were 29th on stopping the opponents on third down.

This is a lie, or something.

Atlanta's offense was 6th in third down conversion rate.

Defense was 29th, though.

O.city
09-05-2012, 07:11 PM
Still can't get over how a supposed fan of a team, cheers for them to lose.

Ace Gunner
09-05-2012, 07:15 PM
Yet that's exactly what they did regarding Tyson Jackson.

Maybe. I don't think so.

I look at this pick as the guy they felt had the most attributes of all the available players (both defensive & offensive) for the type of systems they run.

O.city
09-05-2012, 07:15 PM
Clay you have a negative attitude, like Eeyore.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-05-2012, 07:17 PM
Still can't get over how a supposed fan of a team, cheers for them to lose.

Lol it's not that. He's just trolling the crap out of you guys. He wants us to win just as much we do. It's easy to see.

Ace Gunner
09-05-2012, 07:18 PM
And oh BTW for those (many) of you who follow football by way of braille, Tyson has played pretty good through pre season.

O.city
09-05-2012, 07:20 PM
Tyson?

BigMeatballDave
09-05-2012, 07:30 PM
And oh BTW for those (many) of you who follow football by way of braille, Tyson has played pretty good through pre season.

LOL

Count Alex's Losses
09-05-2012, 07:35 PM
Still can't get over how a supposed fan of a team, cheers for them to lose.

We must lose to win.

O.city
09-05-2012, 07:41 PM
Lose so we can blow up what we have now, bring in another GM that you will lose hope for? I'd love to have that happen.

Ace Gunner
09-05-2012, 07:48 PM
We must lose to win.

I am giving your address to Todd Haley:D

New World Order
09-05-2012, 09:51 PM
Clay you have a negative attitude, like Eeyore.



Clay is a realist about this team, as we all should be. (I am looking at you Black Bob)

Marcellus
09-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Clay is a realist about this team, as we all should be. (I am looking at you Black Bob)

Eat a dick.

JASONSAUTO
09-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Clay is a realist about this team, as we all should be. (I am looking at you Black Bob)
Go fuck your daddy
Posted via Mobile Device

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-05-2012, 10:09 PM
Clay is a realist about this team, as we all should be. (I am looking at you Black Bob)

Clay is a gambler and foolish about this. If we lose a bunch of games, it will screw up the chemistry of the team that has been built throughout the rebuild. It will be ugly this time and we will be rebuilding the rebuild and that is bad news. No quarterback is lock and the "first round QB is a must" idea is flawed. KC will be good this year. I think if Eric Berry read what Clay wrote he would punch him in the face. The players just voted Cassel captain and they did it for a reason. They believe in the guy and I think they take pride in being a team that is not built around one player. The "suck for Luck" philoiphy would bomb with KC's players. It would be 1000% against everything they have been taught here. It would be 1000% the opposite of what Clark is building. We are trying to win constantly.

O.city
09-05-2012, 10:09 PM
Are you 12?

New World Order
09-05-2012, 10:17 PM
Clay is a gambler and foolish about this. If we lose a bunch of games, it will screw up the chemistry of the team that has been built throughout the rebuild. It will be ugly this time and we will be rebuilding the rebuild and that is bad news. No quarterback is lock and the "first round QB is a must" idea is flawed. KC will be good this year. I think if Eric Berry read what Clay wrote he would punch him in the face. The players just voted Cassel captain and they did it for a reason. They believe in the guy and I think they take pride in being a team that is not built around one player. The "suck for Luck" philoiphy would bomb with KC's players. It would be 1000% against everything they have been taught here.



Since 2005 all but one super bowl winning team drafted quarterbacks in the first round, the exception being Drew Brees who was drafted with the first pick in the second round.

Canofbier
09-05-2012, 10:22 PM
You try when the opportunity presents itself. You don't reach for mediocrity.

The Jackson argument is one that Pioli wins. We didn't have a true five tech on this roster when he came in and Jackson was the best potential for that position in that draft. And guess what? He's now playing like one of the best five techs in the league and the stats back him up.

At this point I sure as hell would rather have Jackson versus Sanchez. And this place would have went freaking ballistic if they picked Freeman at #3.

In fact, as it stands, I think you take only Clay Matthews and possibly BJ Raji over Jackson in that draft.

In 2010, we were not getting Bradford no matter how much you wanted to pony up. So, do you reach for Tebow over Eric Berry?

In 2011, quarterbacks went quick and a lot went much earlier than was anticipated. Were you willing to forgo Jon Baldwin and Rod Hudson to trade up for Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

In 2012, we were not getting Luck. Indy wasn't going to trade that pick for five full drafts. Griffin commanded a lot of picks...would you be willing to give up Poe, Allen and a shot at someone like Wilson, Jones, Smith or Bray in 2013?
Would you have been happy to give up multiple picks to move up for Tannehill and forgo the chance at previously said QB's in 2013?

It's about building a team, not mortaging your future on a position because we haven't picked that position in the first round in a while.

You all need to be a bit more objective and rational.

would i give up poe for Griffin?

LMAOLMAO

you're applying the famous Chiefsplanet risk double standard

drafting a QB is risky

drafting an under achieving NT from a shitty conference is not risky

bottom line: we've spent 3 top eleven picks on the DL...and a 2nd on a backup QB

it's not defensible

A smart post followed by a stupid one. The realistically available QBs from two years ago haven't done anything since they were drafted by other teams. They still have a chance to improve and become something, but if we can assume that no miracle turnarounds occur, drafting them would have done absolutely nothing for the Chiefs.

As for this last draft, you're dumb if you think we had any chance at Luck. Griffin was gettable, but only if you were willing to give up more than what the Redskins did, which was already a LOT. I personally believe that Griffin III will be a good QB, but if last season and this preseason has demonstrated anything, it's that this team still lacks strong, lasting depth. Injuries are inevitable, and with the deep class of talented quarterbacks in next year's draft, I can definitely understand the choice to build depth and keep our picks for next year.

Griffin III could be a a hall of famer for all we know, but the fact of the matter is that it's far more likely that he'll end up being average or slightly above average. Football is a team sport, and Sam Bradford is proof that even a talented QB can't overcome a lack of team talent or depth. We'll hopefully have a better chance at a new franchise QB after this season because of the deep class, and at that point we'll have a stronger overall team for that player to come to. As a result, he'll have a smoother development and a better supporting cast than if we had gone all-in to trade up to #2.

Call me brainwashed if you want, but I see a team that has improved significantly in the last few years. Like it or not, both football and life can be estimated with reasonable accuracy using statistics and averages, and if you continually improve the average talent and ability of your team, probability suggests that you will have a team that will compete year after year. If and when we finally obtain a top-tier quarterback to lead this generally talented team leading us to make continual runs deep into the playoffs, all of you constant whiners will look stupid. Either way, this team's arrow is pointed up, and to claim otherwise is silly.

Canofbier
09-05-2012, 10:26 PM
Since 2005 all but one super bowl winning team drafted quarterbacks in the first round, the exception being Drew Brees who was drafted with the first pick in the second round.

You're citing the wrong statistic. Instead, why don't you tell us the fraction of quarterbacks taken in the first round that have won supoerbowls? Oh, does that particular number not suppor your point?

New World Order
09-05-2012, 10:36 PM
You're citing the wrong statistic. Instead, why don't you tell us the fraction of quarterbacks taken in the first round that have won supoerbowls? Oh, does that particular number not suppor your point?



Most teams in the league that are successful have qb's drafted in the first or second round. I would much rather try and fail then stick with Dink and Dunk Cassel

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-05-2012, 10:37 PM
Since 2005 all but one super bowl winning team drafted quarterbacks in the first round, the exception being Drew Brees who was drafted with the first pick in the second round.

Brady won in 2005 and he wasn't a first rounder. It's all relative man. If I go back in history, I'm sure there are other positions that these teams have in common that were first round picks. How many Superbowl winners had a first round CB? How many Superbowl winners had a first round receiver? How many had a first round pass rusher? See what I mean?

Also, how do you reasonably factor in the guys who have won more than one Superbowl?


If you are going to do this the right way, you need to use both the winning and losing Superbowl Quarterbacks. Or, even the top four from the championship games each year. What some are trying to prove is that you need to have a first round QB to be a good teaam right? I mean the losing superbowl teams are still good teams right? If you are going by that theory, it's about making the championship game.

Winning the Superbowl is the goal and I understand that. However, there have only been 46 Superbowls and there have been hundreds - maybe thousands of quarterbacks that played in the NFL. When you look at those first round QBs on the list, most of them won more than one Superbowl or Championship before Superbowls existed. Most of those guys are Hall of Famers.

The point is that we need to research this much further before we can definativley say that a first round QB is the key to success.

New World Order
09-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Brady won in 2005 and he wasn't a first rounder. It's all relative man. If I go back in history, I'm sure there are other positions that these teams have in common that were first round picks. How many Superbowl winners had a first round CB? How many Superbowl winners had a first round receiver? How many had a first round pass rusher? See what I mean?

Also, how do you reasonably factor in the guys who have won more than one Superbowl?


If you are going to do this the right way, you need to use both the winning and losing Superbowl Quarterbacks. Or, even the top four from the championship games each year. What some are trying to prove is that you need to have a first round QB to be a good teaam right? I mean the losing superbowl teams are still good teams right? If you are going by that theory, it's about making the championship game.

Winning the Superbowl is the goal and I understand that. However, there have only been 46 Superbowls and there have been hundreds - maybe thousands of quarterbacks that played in the NFL. When you look at those first round QBs on the list, most of them won more than one Superbowl or Championship before Superbowls existed. Most of those guys are Hall of Famers.

The point is that we need to research this much further before we can definativley say that a first round QB is the key to success.



That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

NJChiefsFan
09-05-2012, 10:47 PM
Brady won in 2005 and he wasn't a first rounder. It's all relative man. If I go back in history, I'm sure there are other positions that these teams have in common that were first round picks. How many Superbowl winners had a first round CB? How many Superbowl winners had a first round receiver? How many had a first round pass rusher? See what I mean?

Also, how do you reasonably factor in the guys who have won more than one Superbowl?


If you are going to do this the right way, you need to use both the winning and losing Superbowl Quarterbacks. Or, even the top four from the championship games each year. What some are trying to prove is that you need to have a first round QB to be a good teaam right? I mean the losing superbowl teams are still good teams right? If you are going by that theory, it's about making the championship game.

Winning the Superbowl is the goal and I understand that. However, there have only been 46 Superbowls and there have been hundreds - maybe thousands of quarterbacks that played in the NFL. When you look at those first round QBs on the list, most of them won more than one Superbowl or Championship before Superbowls existed. Most of those guys are Hall of Famers.

The point is that we need to research this much further before we can definativley say that a first round QB is the key to success.

Well we need to get one from somewhere. Are qb isn't gonna do it. He can have the career year you predict, he still won't get us to the Super Bowl. We are just wasting the talent we have.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-05-2012, 10:53 PM
That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

NJChiefsFan
09-05-2012, 10:59 PM
I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

But youdo need one. If u don't have a qb who can win a playoff gm you don't have much of a chance. People reference SF, well there qb had to win them that saints gm. Sorry but natty isn't doing that. Plus if smith steps up in the giants gm they probably avoid the fumble in OT. Point is we need a real qb to get where we eventually want to go in this league. Hoping a marginal qb will take us there is as big a risk as getting a new one, and has/will waste as much time.

BossChief
09-06-2012, 01:18 AM
That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

New World Order
09-06-2012, 01:29 AM
Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.



The problem is Cassel has shown limited ability in sitting back in the pocket and making throws. I don't think Joe Flacco is the greatest qb of all time but we have seen him sit in shotgun and deliver the football, for example he ran the 2 minute drill and came from behind to beat Pittsburgh, one of the best defenses in the NFL. Cassel's throws as we all know come from the running game/PA. Our defense has not shown on a consistent basis that they are good enough to carry an average QB, we don't have a Ravens D.

Count Alex's Losses
09-06-2012, 01:29 AM
No we won't, because our defense isn't and won't be as good as those teams.

This is a 8-12 defense, tops, not a top 5 defense.

And Cassel doesn't beat winning teams.

Flacco beat 7 last season ALONE.

Count Alex's Losses
09-06-2012, 01:34 AM
Flacco has 20 wins against teams with winning records for his career, including playoff wins.

Cassel has 5.

Would you like to know more? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

New World Order
09-06-2012, 01:37 AM
Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.




Cassel only has 1 win against a winning team in a Chiefs uniform, that was Pitt in 09. Why should I believe that will change? As CR mentioned we do not have a top 5 d. We do not have anyone to play in the middle on the defensive line, our CB depth is absolutely awful, and our best d player is out week 1.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-06-2012, 01:37 AM
Flacco has 20 wins against teams with winning records for his career, including playoff wins.

Cassel has 5.

Would you like to know more? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

Yes, If i don't like Flacco what should I like about Cassel?

Count Alex's Losses
09-06-2012, 01:46 AM
Yes, If i don't like Flacco what should I like about Cassel?

Absolutely nothing.

Joe Flacco is superior to Matt Cassel in every way.

Every fucking way.

Count Alex's Losses
09-06-2012, 01:47 AM
Cassel only has 1 win against a winning team in a Chiefs uniform, that was Pitt in 09. Why should I believe that will change? As CR mentioned we do not have a top 5 d. We do not have anyone to play in the middle on the defensive line, our CB depth is absolutely awful, and our best d player is out week 1.

HOLD!

He actually has two.

You need to study your textbook. (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

Note: neither of those teams were playoff qualifiers, and he played like dogshit in one of those games.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 01:49 AM
Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

Can Cassel play a game like Smith played against NO in the playoffs? No.

New World Order
09-06-2012, 01:53 AM
HOLD!

He actually has two.

You need to study your textbook. (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

Note: neither of those teams were playoff qualifiers, and he played like dogshit in one of those games.



Ah ha you are right, and he threw for 68 yards in that SD game, what a hot shit qb.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:23 AM
I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

Football is a game of percentages.

No, first round QBs aren't automatically good.

But your chances of finding a GOOD QB outside of the 1st round are about equal to your chances of being struck by lightning.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-06-2012, 07:58 AM
Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

Yep, Alex Smith gave me alot of hope last year. Before that I really felt like being a leader and taking a game on your shoulders couldn't be taught. I mean making the play when it had to be made. I think this is Cassel's biggest weakness. I think it was Alex Smith's to. You almost absolutely have to be able to do that to win a superbowl. The only other way is to flat out blow people out and never trail like Green Bay did when they won it a couple of years ago.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-06-2012, 07:59 AM
Football is a game of percentages.

No, first round QBs aren't automatically good.

But your chances of finding a GOOD QB outside of the 1st round are about equal to your chances of being struck by lightning.

But what defines a good QB? Instead of trying to find a guy that will throw for 3 million yards, we need to fine the formula for what it takes to win. If we do that, we are onto something. There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

suds79
09-06-2012, 08:06 AM
There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

You're right. Getting that franchise guy doesn't give you a SB. It makes your team eligible. From there it depends on the quality of the rest of the team, HC, etc.

But without one? No shot.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 08:16 AM
But what defines a good QB?

This is the argument of defeat - semantics.

You should just give up now.

Dirty Bird
09-06-2012, 08:25 AM
3 days till kickoff...

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 08:49 AM
But what defines a good QB? Instead of trying to find a guy that will throw for 3 million yards, we need to fine the formula for what it takes to win. If we do that, we are onto something. There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

A QB who has ability to scan the entire field, go through his progressions, and find a receiver even if he isn't the primary read. Cassel doesn't do that. He locks onto his primary guy then looks to his safety net.

A QB with the pocket presence to smell pressure and know where to slide in the pocket. Tom Brady is masterful at this. When he sense pressure, he doesn't scramble. He slides to a new spot. Cassel looked horrible behind the same offensive line that Brady and Orton got tremendous protection behind.

A QB with accuracy and touch. Eli Manning throws with precision, as with the Manningham catch. Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc... are so precise the ball is put on exactly the right shoulder based on the WR's position. Cassel almost ALWAYS throws the ball to a receiver that is open by at least 5 yards.

A QB with anticipation to throw the ball before the receiver flies open.

A QB who is enough of a deep threat. Despite teams cheating up and putting 8 in a box, Cassel has one of the worst deep pass % completion in the league.

A QB who can read the defense and react to the blitz. Defenses constantly had more blitzers than blockers, and Cassel never picked it up. And Cassel NEVER finds a hot route.

A QB who can lead a team from behind. It's been 3 years now. Cassel has allowed blowouts to happen because instead of shooting out with the other team, he wastes the first 4 possessions when the other team gets an early lead. And in 3 years, how many 2 minute comebacks has he engineered?

Sorry, but we shouldn't congratulate a QB who can thrash bad defenses and relies on a "is my primary receiver wide open, or can I check down." My standard has always been, could a very average QB do the same things as Cassel. And I'd say "yes, and probably much better."

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 09:07 AM
Flacco has 20 wins against teams with winning records for his career, including playoff wins.

Cassel has 5.

Would you like to know more? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

Defense didn't have anything to do with those wins.

Flacco has 6 fourth quarter comebacks in his career, Cassel has 5. Not a big difference.

donkhater
09-09-2012, 04:36 PM
Bump.

Remember this? It was entirely predictable.

OctoberFart
09-10-2012, 10:26 AM
Well they would be 7.5 favorites at home. Lines have been consistent at -1 to -1.5. This is the easiest bet of week 1.

I cashed that MOFO in. Can't wait to collect next time I go to vegas. Don't say I didn't try and help you guys make some cash. That was like taking free handouts from CA government.

Dayze
09-10-2012, 10:29 AM
I was close to my score prediction.
let me know if you guys need the lotto numbers for tonight.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 10:33 AM
Bump.

Remember this? It was entirely predictable.

Entirely.

We had been talking about it for weeks leading up to it. Most of us knew it was going to happen.

We knew it was going to happen, we know why it happened, therefore we should also know that yesterday's came doesn't change our prediction of this being another 8-8 to 10-6 Ball Club.

It's going to be rough early. The team will pick it up week 6+

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-10-2012, 10:50 AM
A QB who has ability to scan the entire field, go through his progressions, and find a receiver even if he isn't the primary read. Cassel doesn't do that. He locks onto his primary guy then looks to his safety net.

A QB with the pocket presence to smell pressure and know where to slide in the pocket. Tom Brady is masterful at this. When he sense pressure, he doesn't scramble. He slides to a new spot. Cassel looked horrible behind the same offensive line that Brady and Orton got tremendous protection behind.

A QB with accuracy and touch. Eli Manning throws with precision, as with the Manningham catch. Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc... are so precise the ball is put on exactly the right shoulder based on the WR's position. Cassel almost ALWAYS throws the ball to a receiver that is open by at least 5 yards.

A QB with anticipation to throw the ball before the receiver flies open.

A QB who is enough of a deep threat. Despite teams cheating up and putting 8 in a box, Cassel has one of the worst deep pass % completion in the league.

A QB who can read the defense and react to the blitz. Defenses constantly had more blitzers than blockers, and Cassel never picked it up. And Cassel NEVER finds a hot route.

A QB who can lead a team from behind. It's been 3 years now. Cassel has allowed blowouts to happen because instead of shooting out with the other team, he wastes the first 4 possessions when the other team gets an early lead. And in 3 years, how many 2 minute comebacks has he engineered?

Sorry, but we shouldn't congratulate a QB who can thrash bad defenses and relies on a "is my primary receiver wide open, or can I check down." My standard has always been, could a very average QB do the same things as Cassel. And I'd say "yes, and probably much better."

That is going to be hard to find. It's tough to find a QB with all of that. There are probably less than 20 who have all that in the history of the entire game. Leading a team from behind is what I am looking for. It's what Brady had and Russell Wilson had coming out. It's the most important thing imo. If a guy can't do that, then I would pass.

the Talking Can
09-10-2012, 11:04 AM
Their offensive line sucks.

Their defense is soft and looks like the worst tackling defense in the league.

They have no MLB.

They have no safeties.

Ryan chokes in big games.

He's 0-2 when starting the season on the road.

The Falcons have never won at Arrowhead.

another good call

Falconidae
09-11-2012, 08:20 AM
That is going to be hard to find. It's tough to find a QB with all of that. There are probably less than 20 who have all that in the history of the entire game. Leading a team from behind is what I am looking for. It's what Brady had and Russell Wilson had coming out. It's the most important thing imo. If a guy can't do that, then I would pass.

You the black bob that disappeared from the falcons messageboard after predicting a Chiefs win based on superior depth?

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-11-2012, 08:29 AM
You the black bob that disappeared from the falcons messageboard after predicting a Chiefs win based on superior depth?

If he was crying about Bowe and DJ whilst nibbling on Siler's nutsack...yep

KCUnited
09-11-2012, 08:36 AM
You the BlackBob on the Falcons board that basically claimed that Siler in for DJ wasn't a huge drop off?

You the black bob that disappeared from the falcons messageboard after predicting a Chiefs win based on superior depth?

***crickets***

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-11-2012, 08:38 AM
You the black bob that disappeared from the falcons messageboard after predicting a Chiefs win based on superior depth?

Yep. That was me. It wasn't enough and if you noticed, I didn't include Jaques Reeves on that list. Also, go **** yourself for misquoting me about Siler. I never said he wasn't a big drop off from DJ. You did asshole.

If he was crying about Bowe and DJ whilst nibbling on Siler's nutsack...yep

Way to join in the boot party pussy.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-11-2012, 08:43 AM
another good call

Pretty good imo.

Their offensive line sucks. - I still think it does. We hardly blitzed and they could not run.

Their defense is soft and looks like the worst tackling defense in the league. - They were very soft in the first half.

They have no MLB. - Dent hardly played. They lined up in the nickel almost all day.

They have no safeties. - They were owned by McCluster and the TEs just as I predicted. Moore got a lucky int. So what?

Ryan chokes in big games. - he did until this one. Like Mike Smith said, it was the greatest game in his career.

He's 0-2 when starting the season on the road. - that was true.

The Falcons have never won at Arrowhead. - that was also true

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-11-2012, 09:42 AM
Here's my response to my predictions over there... In case you give a shit.

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3954265-some-talk-from-chief-fans/page__st__360

and by the way.... **** you Falconidae

[quote name='falconidae' timestamp='1347385076' post='7022327']



No, You didn't actually say there was no drop off between DJ and Siler, however, you did talk about the quality depth your team had and used Siler replacing DJ as one of the examples and certainly implied that.

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3954265-some-talk-from-chief-fans/page__st__360

Frankie
09-11-2012, 02:10 PM
Bump.

Remember this? It was entirely predictable.

I didn't post this thread because I think the Chiefs are really inferior to Atlanta. If our healthy team plays their healthy team I very much like our chances to beat them.

What scared me here was the match up problem we were going to have with our starters missing on D. We were affected by injuries and Tamba's suspension at exactly the areas of their strength, AKA their passing game. Hence my worry. Frankly garbage time TD or not, we made the score closer than I thought it would be.

Falconidae
09-11-2012, 08:30 PM
Yep. That was me. It wasn't enough and if you noticed, I didn't include Jaques Reeves on that list. Also, go **** yourself for misquoting me about Siler. I never said he wasn't a big drop off from DJ. You did asshole.


Dude, you go onto another teams messageboard, predict a win and then disappear when your team loses. Then, when you get called on it, have the gall to be offended by having to eat some crow

And as I explained, you implied Siler wasn't a huge dropoff from DJ, and when I pointed that out, you did the little brother thing " Well, I didn't say that". No, but it was a real logical interpretation of what you said.

Tombstone RJ
09-11-2012, 09:00 PM
this thread, it delivers.