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Count Alex's Wins
09-06-2012, 02:04 AM
Nice to see Kent bringing the axe down one last time.

Take care, Babb.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/05/3798740/chiefs-have-money-to-burn-and.html

Chiefs linebacker Tamba Hali’s locker was unoccupied Wednesday. Defensive backs Kendrick Lewis and Brandon Flowers practiced, but they were in shorts. Hope inflated that linebacker Derrick Johnson and others could play in Sunday’s regular-season opener against Atlanta, but it’s too early to know.

That was the prevailing feeling Wednesday afternoon at the Chiefs’ practice facility: that no one could know how many of the six injured defenders — four of them starters — would be available when the Falcons come to town this weekend.

Feeling worry is no way to go through life, especially this early in the season. And that’s not even the worst part. The worst is that a good bit of this worry could’ve been avoided.

Injuries and unexpected circumstances happen in this league. Teams can never prepare enough for them. Surely, if general manager Scott Pioli knew four months ago that Hali would be suspended this week or Flowers would miss six weeks of practice or that seemingly no one on this team would know how to play nickel corner, he would’ve added to the roster. Maybe he would’ve even retained cornerback Brandon Carr.

Instead, the Chiefs and Pioli cut coupons on defense, and the team again has millions left over. The NFL’s players association lists the Chiefs at $26.6 million under the salary cap, second most in pro football; the league reports the Chiefs have only $16.3 million in unspent money, which would still be seventh most in the NFL

Regardless of which figure is accurate, or closer to accurate, it’s a bad look for the Chiefs to have so much excess money and a worrisome problem with depth. Personnel issues can be solved, at least in part, by spending some of that money. Pioli likes to say that there’s no correlation between victories and dollars spent during free-agency. That it’s all about finding that “right” player, with the right combination of character, brains, talent and coachability. If he’s honest, though, he’d throw in another important fact: that the “right” player is willing to sign a Chiefs-friendly deal.

That last point is, of course, the most important. Otherwise, why did Carr play Wednesday night for the Dallas Cowboys while the Chiefs continue wringing their hands about who might line up at corner against Atlanta’s Roddy White and Julio Jones?

Carr was a fifth-round draft pick in 2008 out of Grand Valley State. Back then, he was a possible contributor and a long-shot starter. Instead, Carr went on to never miss a start in four seasons.

He also never got in trouble, led the Chiefs in interceptions last year and emerged as a team leader who organized weekly dinners with other defensive backs, just so they’d establish chemistry and learn to rely on each other. He had no injury history and, when last season ended, he was only 25 years old.

So when his contract expired, what was the problem?

The only possibility in Pioli’s list of criteria was that Carr wasn’t willing to take a discounted deal to remain in Kansas City. When the Cowboys offered a five-year, $50.1 million contract, the Chiefs elected to wave goodbye to that home-grown, self-made, hard-working guy who represented all the Chiefs seemingly want in a player.

Do you know what Carr’s salary will be this year? Well, it’s $1.2 million. Sure, the Chiefs and fans have taken relief in the fact that Carr, despite his history as a good guy and a smart player, simply isn’t a $10 million-a-year talent. It’s hard to argue against that. But here’s the thing: His Cowboys contract pays him eight figures in only one of those five seasons, not including a voidable, $10 million option in 2017. During the four other seasons, Carr’s salary will average about $6.45 million. So for the most part, even Carr and Dallas agree that he isn’t worth $10 million per season.

This isn’t to say that the Chiefs should’ve overspent to keep a player they didn’t deem worthy. If Carr wasn’t the Chiefs’ kind of player — though that’s difficult to imagine — or if they thought Stanford Routt would be an upgrade at less money, then they were right to let him walk. But if they’re holding on to misplaced logic that frugal teams are smarter and better, then all those injuries suggest their decision was a mistake.

History indeed suggests that teams don’t have to rank among the NFL’s biggest spenders to reach or win in the playoffs. In six of the last 11 seasons, the team with the league’s highest payroll didn’t participate in the postseason. Super Bowl teams have traditionally ranked around the league’s spending median, at least in the last decade.

The Chiefs’ problem, though, is that they haven’t come close even to that median and won’t approach it until 2013, when teams have to spend at least 89 percent of the salary cap. Until then, they’ll keep putting a discounted product on the field, the same as they have the previous three seasons.

In August 2011, the Chiefs were $28.7 million under the cap. A year earlier, when there was no salary cap, they ranked next to last in spending. In 2009, Pioli’s first year, his team began the preseason with $30.16 million available.

Maybe there’s no correlation between spending and winning, but with two losing seasons in the last three, there doesn’t seem to be evidence that there’s no correlation between saving and losing.

And the Chiefs can slice it and spin it and distribute it any which way, but like it or not, sitting on that pile of cash, year in and year out, leaves the unmistakable feeling that they just aren’t trying as hard as they can to eliminate the worry of weeks like this, and do all they can to be winners.

SNR
09-06-2012, 02:13 AM
I really don't give a shit about Carr. He was great and one of my favorite Chiefs this team has seen in the past 10 years. I got over his departure months ago.

If Pioli doesn't give extensions or new contracts to Bowe and Albert, however, then I will absolutely buy everything Babb is saying.

I wish Babb would have put forward a theory of why Pioli thinks the thrifty way is so damn special. But whatever.

Fruit Ninja
09-06-2012, 02:14 AM
i want nothing but Mark Castle sucks articles. Thats the only ones that make me say "fuck yeah" lol

New World Order
09-06-2012, 02:15 AM
CR you just don't get it do you. Why would we want to re-sign Brandon Carr when we have Jalil Brown?!

DaneMcCloud
09-06-2012, 02:18 AM
Pioli is just following the decades long Hunt and Chiefs tradition of fucking the fans while making a profit.

Yay.

New World Order
09-06-2012, 02:22 AM
Pioli is just following the decades long Hunt and Chiefs tradition of ****ing the fans while making a profit.

Yay.



Let's be real for a second, if we owned a NFL franchise and could have homes in whatever city we wanted, could drive quarter of a million dollar cars would we really care about what our team's record is? You are still going to bring home millions no matter how bad they are

Count Alex's Wins
09-06-2012, 02:24 AM
Pioli is just following the decades long Hunt and Chiefs tradition of fucking the fans while making a profit.

Yay.

I honestly think the Patriot Way makes it even worse.

It justifies the frugal spending.

Meanwhile we have two underachieving assholes stealing $120 million in Hunt money, and the studs get fucked over because they "aren't the right fit."

And people wonder why I've gone insane.

DaneMcCloud
09-06-2012, 02:26 AM
I honestly think the Patriot Way makes it even worse.

It justifies the frugal spending.

Meanwhile we have two underachieving assholes stealing $120 million in Hunt money, and fuck over the good players.

And people wonder why I've gone insane.

They're not stealing it: It's part of the "Process".

As I've said since my NY meetings in late 2008: Hunt doesn't care. You argued with me, but I think that four years later, it's very clear.

Profit.

Munson
09-06-2012, 02:29 AM
Hunt family = cheap

DaneMcCloud
09-06-2012, 02:30 AM
Hunt family = cheap

Wow. Thanks for the insight.

Otherwise, I'd have never known. Do you have any more insider tidbits?

SNR
09-06-2012, 02:32 AM
Wow. Thanks for the insight.

Otherwise, I'd have never known. Do you have any more insider tidbits?

Okay gang...

Von Dumbass
09-06-2012, 02:41 AM
Who should the Chiefs have spent that money on? The consensus here seems to be that the Chiefs have the most talented roster in the NFL.

They did try to get a QB. He just didn't want to play in KC.

SNR
09-06-2012, 02:43 AM
Who should the Chiefs have spent that money on? The consensus here seems to be that the Chiefs have the most talented roster in the NFL.

They did try to get a QB. He just didn't want to play in KC.

Nobody ever said they were the best in the NFL. People have said the Chiefs are one of the top teams in the NFL outside of QB.

You, on the other hand, believe the Donks are stacked at every position, and it would not surprise me to hear you say the Donks have the most talented roster in the NFL.

This is, of course, false.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 02:45 AM
Who should the Chiefs have spent that money on? The consensus here seems to be that the Chiefs have the most talented roster in the NFL.

They did try to get a QB. He just didn't want to play in KC.

Consensus? Really? I don't think you will find that many feeling we have the most talented roster. Also, from what reports have indicated, Pioli dropped out of the race before it began when he found out what Manning was looking for.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 02:46 AM
I don't care that they don't spend money. I think they've built a very good team.

The problem is, was, and always will be until proven otherwise Pioli's unbelievably idiotic stubbornness to support a QB who undermines everything he has built.

DaneMcCloud
09-06-2012, 02:50 AM
I don't care that they don't spend money. I think they've built a very good team.

The problem is, was, and always will be until proven otherwise Pioli's unbelievably idiotic stubbornness to support a QB who undermines everything he has built.

Then it's not a very good team.

JFC, you're still a verbose and unfocused cunt. Get with it.

Von Dumbass
09-06-2012, 02:55 AM
Consensus? Really? I don't think you will find that many feeling we have the most talented roster. Also, from what reports have indicated, Pioli dropped out of the race before it began when he found out what Manning was looking for.

Maybe my post contained a bit of hyperbole but I remember reading numerous posts here during draft time about how the Chiefs had zero needs. You guys didn't want Keuchly because you guys liked Javon ****ing Belcher.

And on the Manning stuff, the last I heard Seattle and KC both made it known to the Manning camp that they were interested and Manning declined.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 02:55 AM
Then it's not a very good team.

JFC, you're still a verbose and unfocused ****. Get with it.

When your entire offensive game plan is to protect the guy at the most important position on the field, there might be an issue. Not to mention its in a league that nearly demands that the position you are protecting be strong.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 02:59 AM
Then it's not a very good team.

JFC, you're still a verbose and unfocused ****. Get with it.

Verbose? That was 2 lines.

It's stupid to argue that the problem is cheapness, when we all know that one change at QB makes the team a Super Bowl contender. The problem isn't cheapness. The problem is boneheaded loyalty to one expensive guy who undermines everything.

Coach
09-06-2012, 03:00 AM
Verbose? That was 2 lines.

It's stupid to argue that the problem is cheapness, when we all know that one change at QB makes the team a Super Bowl contender. The problem isn't cheapness. The problem is boneheaded loyalty to one expensive guy who undermines everything.

Which is why this team is not good. I think that's what Dane was addressing that this team is simply not good because of one thing, the QB issue.

If KC had Rodgers or Brady, then we'd be singing a different tune.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 03:02 AM
Verbose? That was 2 lines.

It's stupid to argue that the problem is cheapness, when we all know that one change at QB makes the team a Super Bowl contender. The problem isn't cheapness. The problem is boneheaded loyalty to one expensive guy who undermines everything.

Some of the posts weren't saying we lose because we are cheap, they were saying that we are cheap.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 03:03 AM
Which is why this team is not good. I think that's what Dane was addressing that this team is simply not good because of one thing, the QB issue.

If KC had Rodgers or Brady, then we'd be singing a different tune.

And I'm not disagreeing with Dane. I'm disagreeing with Babb, who is suggesting that the Chiefs not spending money is the problem. Especially given that the biggest mistake is an expensive guy named Matt Cassel.

Even without Cassel, the team could win without Carr. Could win without Bowe. Could probably win without Branden Albert, assuming you have an adequate replacement.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 03:06 AM
And I'm not disagreeing with Dane. I'm disagreeing with Babb, who is suggesting that the Chiefs not spending money is the problem. Especially given that the biggest mistake is an expensive guy named Matt Cassel.

Even without Cassel, the team could win without Carr. Could win without Bowe. Could probably win without Branden Albert, assuming you have an adequate replacement.

Spending some money to upgrade the depth would have helped with our possible injury situation, which is what I think the main point of the article was. Yeah he was also pointing out that while spending money doesn't equal winning, we have shown that being "smart" with it doesn't promise anything either. Pioli's issue, as pointed out, is that his QB is forcing all his other roster decisions to be perfect.

Chocolate Hog
09-06-2012, 03:08 AM
Didn't pioli try to trade Charles to the Redskins a few years ago?

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 03:11 AM
Spending some money to upgrade the depth would have helped with our possible injury situation, which is what I think the main point of the article was. Yeah he was also pointing out that while spending money doesn't equal winning, we have shown that being "smart" with it doesn't promise anything either. Pioli's issue, as pointed out, is that his QB is forcing all his other roster decisions to be perfect.

And I'm not disagreeing with your second point.

I"m disagreeing with Babb's article. This isn't a problem of cheapness. It's not a problem about not spending on depth. It's a QB issue. Period.

Coach
09-06-2012, 03:13 AM
And I'm not disagreeing with Dane. I'm disagreeing with Babb, who is suggesting that the Chiefs not spending money is the problem. Especially given that the biggest mistake is an expensive guy named Matt Cassel.

Even without Cassel, the team could win without Carr. Could win without Bowe. Could probably win without Branden Albert, assuming you have an adequate replacement.

They need to spend the money to keep the home-grown players like Carr. I would take Carr over Routt any day, any time, any place, and I wouldn't even think twice on that.

They need to spend money to upgrade the secondary as if like last year's experience never really taught them anything in terms of throwing Sabby out there (that was fucking tragic and horrible) whereas they could have prevented this problem with finding a quality decent back-up player. I didn't see anything so far that they have even addressed it.

They need to spend money to upgrade the linebackers, especially in the middle section as Greenwood and Studebaker isn't really inspiring confidence to me should one of our good players go down, God forbid.

It's about spending money WISELY, not withholding money for unknown reasons. If the Hunts want to make a PROFIT, they need to SPEND to put in a good product on the field. Also they need to ADDRESS the issues and correct it.

Spending Money on GOOD players = Good product on the field = More fans coming out to watch the games = Potential playoff games = MORE REVENUE.

That's just how I see it.

NJChiefsFan
09-06-2012, 03:15 AM
They need to spend the money to keep the home-grown players like Carr. I would take Carr over Routt any day, any time, any place, and I wouldn't even think twice on that.

They need to spend money to upgrade the secondary as if like last year's experience never really taught them anything in terms of throwing Sabby out there (that was ****ing tragic and horrible) whereas they could have prevented this problem with finding a quality decent back-up player. I didn't see anything so far that they have even addressed it.

They need to spend money to upgrade the linebackers, especially in the middle section as Greenwood and Studebaker isn't really inspiring confidence to me should one of our good players go down, God forbid.

It's about spending money WISELY, not withholding money for unknown reasons. If the Hunts want to make a PROFIT, they need to SPEND to put in a good product on the field. Also they need to ADDRESS the issues and correct it.

Spending Money on GOOD players = Good product on the field = More fans coming out to watch the games = Potential playoff games = MORE REVENUE.

That's just how I see it.

Overall I agree. Zilla is right that Cassel is problem 1-4 on this team, but even with a good QB if you have some money you can probably do better than Pioli has in having some depth on the team. I don't care that we have cap room, but we have never had depth under Pioli and depth guys on 1-2 year deals aren't impossible to find.

Guru
09-06-2012, 03:18 AM
I don't care that they don't spend money. I think they've built a very good team.

The problem is, was, and always will be until proven otherwise Pioli's unbelievably idiotic stubbornness to support a QB who undermines everything he has built.

What is Contradiction?

Fruit Ninja
09-06-2012, 03:26 AM
qb's can carry good teams,good teams without a qb dont last long.

This shit is getting old with no qb. Its like no matter what the Chiefs do, most fans realize there is nothing to get excited about if the qb sucks.

I just dont get why some people ego's are so big they think they can do it with a shitty qb. That interview pissed me off so much when he said its ok for cassel to dink and dunk. Its ok if other guys are covered, but its not ok when other guys arent. Just take a fucking look at Clayton's gif's. Cassel drinking and dunking when 10-15 yards down field the wr is wide fucking open.

Also, Pioli said that Mannings camp NEVER returned their calls. The Chiefs didnt drop out of anything, they rang the doorbell and no one answered when they were on the other side of the damn door looking through the peephole. lol

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 03:35 AM
What is Contradiction?

I don't know what's so hard about this.

The problem isn't cheapness. It's an expensive guy named Matt Cassel. Cutting him might even save the Chiefs money.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2012, 03:40 AM
Overall I agree. Zilla is right that Cassel is problem 1-4 on this team, but even with a good QB if you have some money you can probably do better than Pioli has in having some depth on the team. I don't care that we have cap room, but we have never had depth under Pioli and depth guys on 1-2 year deals aren't impossible to find.

On the depth issue, few teams have it, and teams with true depth didn't build it through expensive free agents. They built it through the draft. I love the idea of having a pipeline of young backups with potential to be future starters (even if risky) vs. a backup who's either a washed up veteran, a career backup, or a backup getting paid starter money. The Chiefs are slowly building their depth through the draft. In 2-3 years, I think they'll have very good depth, and depth won't be a problem in the future for a while. It's not just the Patriot Way. It's the Steeler way. It's the Eagles way. It's the way of teams that compete year in and year out vs. teams who are good for a few years then fizzle out.

Again, apart from the QB, the team is very much on the road to being a great and deep supporting cast to support a QB who undermines how good they can be.

Guru
09-06-2012, 03:55 AM
Funny, I seem to remember a bunch of reports on how the Chiefs drafted for depth this year. Looks like it was in all the wrong places now. Gotta love hindsight. heh

the Talking Can
09-06-2012, 05:28 AM
Clark is cheap?


how dare you, Kent Babb....go to the nearest Dollar General Store and apologize to him right now

-King-
09-06-2012, 07:02 AM
How has ANYTHING pointed out that letting Carr go was a mistake? Brown starting has nothing to do with Carr cause Carr never played LCB before. Carr had a very average game last night.

I just don't get why everyone is pissed about letting him go right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

Marcellus
09-06-2012, 07:05 AM
The article isn't bad but he ends it by basically saying it means nothing and this is a pretty stupid statement.

....there doesn’t seem to be evidence that there’s no correlation between saving and losing.

There doesn't seem to be evidence that there isn't a correlation? That's great journalism right there. That's Claytard level writing.

BoneKrusher
09-06-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't care that they don't spend money. I think they've built a very good team.

The problem is, was, and always will be until proven otherwise Pioli's unbelievably idiotic stubbornness to support a QB who undermines everything he has built.

i agree 100%.
the 60 million spent on Cassel was wasted.

-King-
09-06-2012, 07:10 AM
i agree 100%.
the 60 million spent on Cassel was wasted.

Whoa. Groundbreaking info here guys.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefs Pantalones
09-06-2012, 07:13 AM
Carl Peterson's 30 year plan here says this article is classless and deranged.

BoneKrusher
09-06-2012, 07:17 AM
Whoa. Groundbreaking info here guys.
Posted via Mobile Device

damn straight.

Hog Farmer
09-06-2012, 07:19 AM
We have the youngest team in the league, thats why our salaries are lower. When you have a shitload of 30 year olds they are in their 3rd contract. I still wish we would have retained Carr and added Routt

BoneKrusher
09-06-2012, 07:24 AM
I still wish we would have retained Carr and added Routt

yep, that would have givin' the Chiefs a secondary to fear.

jspchief
09-06-2012, 07:26 AM
If heís honest, though, heíd throw in another important fact: that the ďrightĒ player is willing to sign a Chiefs-friendly deal.

/thread

Deberg_1990
09-06-2012, 07:29 AM
The Popular opinion is that Carr wanted to leave for the Cowboys anyways, so im not sure just throwing money at him would have kept him in KC. Is there a link on him wanting to leave for Dallas??


Chiefs have pretty decent depth at alot of positions. Just throwing a bunch of money around because you can doesnt really solve everything. Every team in the league has depth issues somewhere on their team. Theres just not enough talented players to go around and fill up 32 NFL teams.

As many of us have stated over and over.....If you have a top tier QB, it will disguise alot of other problem areas in your team.

jspchief
09-06-2012, 07:30 AM
We have the youngest team in the league, thats why our salaries are lower. When you have a shitload of 30 year olds they are in their 3rd contract. I still wish we would have retained Carr and added RouttThe way Routt's deal was structured, we could have easily tagged Carr and had 1 year to determine which of the 2 CBs was a better fit.

But that would have meant actually putting Bowe to ink, which takes us back to the "Chiefs always need a Chiefs friendly contract" issue.

jspchief
09-06-2012, 07:33 AM
Just throwing a bunch of money around because you can doesnt really solve everything. Every team in the league has depth issues somewhere on their team. Theres just not enough talented players to go around and fill up 32 NFL teams.
I tend to agree with this. Our lack of depth isn't really a spending issue as much as a lack of talent evaluation issue.

And what we are currently experiencing may be more related to the team's overall youth movement more than anything.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:35 AM
The Popular opinion is that Carr wanted to leave for the Cowboys anyways, so im not sure just throwing money at him would have kept him in KC. Is there a link on him wanting to leave for Dallas?

Carr grew up a Cowboys fan. I've read comments from him here and elsewhere that being a Cowboy was his dream.

-King-
09-06-2012, 07:35 AM
The way Routt's deal was structured, we could have easily tagged Carr and had 1 year to determine which of the 2 CBs was a better fit.

But that would have meant actually putting Bowe to ink, which takes us back to the "Chiefs always need a Chiefs friendly contract" issue.

Who said they do?

Jerry Jones himself said that he overpaid for Carr.
Posted via Mobile Device

jspchief
09-06-2012, 07:40 AM
Who said they do?

Jerry Jones himself said that he overpaid for Carr.
Posted via Mobile DeviceWell, the article that this thread is about.

And Jones said they paid market value.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-06-2012, 07:46 AM
Well, I see where Babb is coming from but I think there is another side to the story. With the new CBA, there going to be a spending cap minimum. I think tams have to spend 90% of their salary in the first year and then it goes up 1-2% each year until it tops off at 95-99%. This year, KC got to roll their excess 2011 money into their 2012 money and use it like it was savings. I'm not sure how many times it will roll over but, the 2011 unspent money wasn't wasted. With the new cba the rookie contracts are smaller so that the vets can get bigger paychecks. I think some guys will be getting new contracts soon. I think Albert is a lock but, I don't think we'll resign Bowe. I think they will just tag him this year and next year and pay him a ton over those two years. This way they can push a player who hasn't been very consistent over his career.

What bothers me is the way Pioli waits until the last minute. Last year, Carr was tendered with a first round pick. He should have gotten a contract long before that and I think he would have stayed. Sure, he grew up a Dallas fan but he had good friends here. He would have stayed if he had been offered a contact long before Dallas was in the picture. I don't think any player in the league was ascending like Carr was when he left here. Pioli let a home grown clean consistent player with a ton of talent walk. However, it's his style and he did it with Ty Law and Asante Samuel too. It's easy to see he values different positions more than others. I understand he gave Flowers a contract because most think Flowers was better but, I do not. Flowers has peaked as a player and Pioli saw that Carr was going to make alot more money in the future. Anyway, I am over it.

Right now he is doing the same exact thing with Belcher who is also tendered this year. I hope he gets a contract. Pioli better take care of business and get some of these guys re-signed.

-King-
09-06-2012, 07:46 AM
Well, the article that this thread is about.

And Jones said they paid market value.

That was a backtrack after he'd already admitted to overpaying.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120404-jerry-jones-admits-cowboys-overpaid-for-cornerback-brandon-carr.ece
Posted via Mobile Device

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-06-2012, 07:49 AM
That was a backtrack after he'd already admitted to overpaying.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120404-jerry-jones-admits-cowboys-overpaid-for-cornerback-brandon-carr.ece
Posted via Mobile Device

Ask him that again this morning. Carr has exceeded every expectation of everyone in Dallas.

JD10367
09-06-2012, 07:57 AM
I honestly think the Patriot Way makes it even worse.

It justifies the frugal spending.

Meanwhile we have two underachieving assholes stealing $120 million in Hunt money, and the studs get ****ed over because they "aren't the right fit."

And people wonder why I've gone insane.

It's difficult to figure how much a team truly spends due to bonuses and other crap, but this link (I assume for last season?) shows that, in whatever regard they figure out these numbers, the Chiefs are 13th and the Patriots are 23rd.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/new-england-patriots/salary/67054?q=new-england-patriots

BigRock
09-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Babb nails Pioli good. But several items in his description of financial numbers are a clever use of smoke and mirrors and/or just poorly informed.

suds79
09-06-2012, 08:03 AM
Just throwing a bunch of money around because you can doesnt really solve everything.

I don't think anybody is really asking for that. I would think they're asking just not to be in the bottom 5 or so in terms of the cap every single year. That's not asking too much.

Could have had Carr & Bowe. Wasn't an either or situation and that's what makes me upset.

BoneKrusher
09-06-2012, 08:49 AM
Could have had Carr & Bowe. Wasn't an either or situation and that's what makes me upset.

agreed.

tredadda
09-06-2012, 08:52 AM
I really don't give a shit about Carr. He was great and one of my favorite Chiefs this team has seen in the past 10 years. I got over his departure months ago.

If Pioli doesn't give extensions or new contracts to Bowe and Albert, however, then I will absolutely buy everything Babb is saying.

I wish Babb would have put forward a theory of why Pioli thinks the thrifty way is so damn special. But whatever.

Well, he was outstanding last night in his debut as the #1 CB for Dallas against the Giants. His loss wouldn't have bothered me if money was tight or if we were saving up for Bowe and Albert and Dorsey. So far we have nothing long term with Bowe or Albert, or Dorsey and we have tons of cap space to spend..........still

-King-
09-06-2012, 08:53 AM
Ask him that again this morning. Carr has exceeded every expectation of everyone in Dallas.

ROFL How? Cause he played average yesterday? Cause he for burned by Dominic Hixon a couple times?
Posted via Mobile Device

tredadda
09-06-2012, 08:54 AM
Carr grew up a Cowboys fan. I've read comments from him here and elsewhere that being a Cowboy was his dream.

Money talks. Pay him market value and he would have still been playing in the red and gold.

tredadda
09-06-2012, 08:55 AM
ROFL How? Cause he played average yesterday? Cause he for burned by Dominic Hixon a couple times?
Posted via Mobile Device

No he didn't. He is no Revis, but he was anything but average last night.

DJ's left nut
09-06-2012, 09:00 AM
Let's be real for a second, if we owned a NFL franchise and could have homes in whatever city we wanted, could drive quarter of a million dollar cars would we really care about what our team's record is? You are still going to bring home millions no matter how bad they are

Honestly - what else would you care about?

You have more money than you can spend in 3 lifetimes, making a shitload more probably isn't top billing.

On the other hand, you're one of 30 people in the world that own a football team. Some of the others are the most ego-centric people in the known universe. There are oil tycoons, media barons, captains of industry - alpha dogs, all of them.

Do you really want to be the guy that owns the joke of a franchise that gets slapped around every season? When ownership meetings start and Bob Kraft is sitting with the Mara's and the Rooney's and even Jerry Jones - is that really a table your mediocre at best franchise has entitled you to sit at?

I think we underestimate the real drive of these owners. They don't care about making more money - they care about beating the other owners. I know I would.

In the end, Clark's just a feckless pussy that can't pull it off. It's not profit motive, it's that the winners in this league are owned by Alpha Males and Clark's just a guy that fell into daddy's money.

HemiEd
09-06-2012, 09:05 AM
Well, the article that this thread is about.

And Jones said they paid market value.

I am pretty sure JJ said they paid "retail."

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 09:10 AM
For whatever reason, probably money, KC wasn't an option for Carr. In an interview he gave he said that after the first day with Dallas they hadn't yet made an offer and he said to his agent "what am I going to do now?" He didn't say "hey, I always have KC as an option or fallback."

Hoover
09-06-2012, 09:12 AM
The only thing that fans can bitch about in regards to the Chiefs having money left to burn is the inability to sign Bowe to a long term contract. Carr had one foot out the door and we already locked up or #1 CB. It happens.

I also think that not giving Bowe a huge multi year deal might be a very wise move. I love the guy, but I don't think we should break the bank on him. The Bowe saga reminds me a lot of how the Pats dealt with Deion Branch.

I view the money that the Chiefs have as a good thing. I hope Pioli locks up Albert and maybe Dorsey during the season.

KCUnited
09-06-2012, 09:17 AM
The Carr dreamed of playing for Dallas as a reason he didn't re-sign with the Chiefs is laughable. It was purely due to his unwillingness to take a hometown discount. Nick Wright did an interview with him where he stated he was willing to sign long term prior to the 2011 season. I can't find a link to the interview, but it's referenced here:

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/1/16/2709368/brandon-carr-could-leave-kansas-city-chiefs-for-detroit-lions

"I don't really want to talk about contracts. If everything works out the way, you know, that it should, I will be in a Kansas City Chiefs uniform, but at the end of the day it's going to be my decision to make. It's going to be a hard one. It's not going to be easy. I've been out here four years and I have a lot of things established here and a lot of friendships and -- on the field -- getting a lot of things done."

Wright also gave an interview to Shan Sharif on Dallas radio referencing that interview and personal conversations he had with Carr.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2FdY%2FdE%2FdY%2FZYEY_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561707005723849360_Auww9RChC61BlUWR7gOI2EqP0&podcast_name=Nick+Wright+of+610+SportsRadio+in+Kansas+City&podcast_artist=KRLD-FM%2C+105.3+The+Fan&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.DALLAS

Hoover
09-06-2012, 09:23 AM
The Carr dreamed of playing for Dallas as a reason he didn't re-sign with the Chiefs is laughable. It was purely due to his unwillingness to take a hometown discount. Nick Wright did an interview with him where he stated he was willing to sign long term prior to the 2011 season. I can't find a link to the interview, but it's referenced here:

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/1/16/2709368/brandon-carr-could-leave-kansas-city-chiefs-for-detroit-lions

"I don't really want to talk about contracts. If everything works out the way, you know, that it should, I will be in a Kansas City Chiefs uniform, but at the end of the day it's going to be my decision to make. It's going to be a hard one. It's not going to be easy. I've been out here four years and I have a lot of things established here and a lot of friendships and -- on the field -- getting a lot of things done."

Wright also gave an interview to Shan Sharif on Dallas radio referencing that interview and personal conversations he had with Carr.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2FdY%2FdE%2FdY%2FZYEY_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561707005723849360_Auww9RChC61BlUWR7gOI2EqP0&podcast_name=Nick+Wright+of+610+SportsRadio+in+Kansas+City&podcast_artist=KRLD-FM%2C+105.3+The+Fan&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.DALLAS
I love fans who expect players to say that the Chiefs are tight wads and the organization that drafted them suck.

royr17
09-06-2012, 09:23 AM
Who should the Chiefs have spent that money on? The consensus here seems to be that the Chiefs have the most talented roster in the NFL.

They did try to get a QB. He just didn't want to play in KC.

He would have if the chiefs had put up the money he got in denver, it was all about the money and there was no way in hell they were wanting to give up that type of money for a qb that is one hit away from being retired.

SNR
09-06-2012, 09:33 AM
Maybe my post contained a bit of hyperbole but I remember reading numerous posts here during draft time about how the Chiefs had zero needs. You guys didn't want Keuchly because you guys liked Javon ****ing Belcher.

And on the Manning stuff, the last I heard Seattle and KC both made it known to the Manning camp that they were interested and Manning declined.

We didn't want Kuechly because he's not a fucking QB

Von Dumbass
09-06-2012, 09:34 AM
He would have if the chiefs had put up the money he got in denver, it was all about the money and there was no way in hell they were wanting to give up that type of money for a qb that is one hit away from being retired.

Tennessee offered more money than Denver did. And the contract Manning signed is basically three separate contracts. It is a one year deal, followed by a two year deal, followed by another two year deal. If Manning doesn't pass a physical in 2013 and 2015 Denver is off the hook for the remainder of the contract. I don't foresee that being an issue though.

O.city
09-06-2012, 09:36 AM
If only we would have poured that money into depth at the Cb spot, having good depth like the SB winning Giants do. Oh wait..... It's just a fact that you aren't going to have solid depth everywhere. Last year, our safety situation was a mess. So we went and grabbed Elam and drafted Menzie, moved Daniels to safety. Now, we lose our starting FS and we seem to be ok at that spot.


If you wanna look at where that money should have been spent or should be spent, should be at locking up our own and garnering as many pass rushers as we can. Would have liked to have resigned Carr, sure. But thats in the past.

Gotta use that money to lock up Albert and Bowe and possibly Dorsey. Hopefully, we will eventually have a franchise qb that is gonna cost a little coin. Doubtful, but hopeful.

Von Dumbass
09-06-2012, 09:43 AM
We didn't want Kuechly because he's not a ****ing QB

I remember the argument against Kuechly was that he wasn't a thumper and that Belcher is a better fit for the Chiefs.

I honestly can't remember who you guys had a hard-on for after the RG3 trade. Some of you guys wanted Tannehill but I think most of the people here thought there was no way Pioli would trade up to get him.

KCUnited
09-06-2012, 09:44 AM
I love fans who expect players to say that the Chiefs are tight wads and the organization that drafted them suck.

It's almost as amusing as fans who believe their team isn't in the running for a guy they drafted because of a childhood dream. It's obvious the Chiefs didn't value Carr as much as Carr felt he was worth, that's fine, but when you find yourself light at that position and notoriously operating well under the cap, articles are going to get written.

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 09:47 AM
I honestly can't remember who you guys had a hard-on for after the RG3 trade. .

Can't give up picks for RG3. They are too valuable. It's too risky. And it's a good thing with all those draft picks starting on Sunday for KC.

SNR
09-06-2012, 09:52 AM
I remember the argument against Kuechly was that he wasn't a thumper and that Belcher is a better fit for the Chiefs.

I honestly can't remember who you guys had a hard-on for after the RG3 trade. Some of you guys wanted Tannehill but I think most of the people here thought there was no way Pioli would trade up to get him.

See? Whatever we did in that draft would have just created a logjam at the position. Like a team with lots of talented players on it.

If that first pick wasn't a QB, it was just going to be a giant clusterfuck regardless of who we took.

We ended up taking a guy at position of need who sucks. I would much rather have had Kuechly, but now that we know the Panthers would have overdrafted the fuck out of him like they did, he sure as fuck wasn't worth a trade up.

DaFace
09-06-2012, 09:57 AM
Maybe my post contained a bit of hyperbole but I remember reading numerous posts here during draft time about how the Chiefs had zero needs. You guys didn't want Keuchly because you guys liked Javon ****ing Belcher.

And on the Manning stuff, the last I heard Seattle and KC both made it known to the Manning camp that they were interested and Manning declined.

Have you ever considered the possibility that, perhaps, those posts are reactionary? If you refuse to be anything close to realistic in your discussions of the Broncos, why should anyone else engage you in serious discussions about the Chiefs?

Von Dumbass
09-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Have you ever considered the possibility that, perhaps, those posts are reactionary? If you refuse to be anything close to realistic in your discussions of the Broncos, why should anyone else engage you in serious discussions about the Chiefs?

If my post makes sense then I don't see why you couldn't have a serious discussion.

I don't think I have been unrealistic lately about the Broncos. Most of my Broncos related posts have just been links. Anything I post about Denver ends up in discussion about Manning's "broken" neck anyways.

-King-
09-06-2012, 10:17 AM
The Carr dreamed of playing for Dallas as a reason he didn't re-sign with the Chiefs is laughable. It was purely due to his unwillingness to take a hometown discount. Nick Wright did an interview with him where he stated he was willing to sign long term prior to the 2011 season. I can't find a link to the interview, but it's referenced here:

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/1/16/2709368/brandon-carr-could-leave-kansas-city-chiefs-for-detroit-lions

"I don't really want to talk about contracts. If everything works out the way, you know, that it should, I will be in a Kansas City Chiefs uniform, but at the end of the day it's going to be my decision to make. It's going to be a hard one. It's not going to be easy. I've been out here four years and I have a lot of things established here and a lot of friendships and -- on the field -- getting a lot of things done."

Wright also gave an interview to Shan Sharif on Dallas radio referencing that interview and personal conversations he had with Carr.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2FdY%2FdE%2FdY%2FZYEY_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561707005723849360_Auww9RChC61BlUWR7gOI2EqP0&podcast_name=Nick+Wright+of+610+SportsRadio+in+Kansas+City&podcast_artist=KRLD-FM%2C+105.3+The+Fan&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.DALLAS

How many free agents have EVER said that they're not looking to re-sign?

Did you really expect Carr to say (WHILE a member of the Chiefs), "I'm not looking to sign a long term contract here, I want to go to Dallas ASAP"? Of Course not.
Posted via Mobile Device

O.city
09-06-2012, 10:18 AM
Albert Pujols was always going to be a Cardinal and Lebron loved Cleveland.

beach tribe
09-06-2012, 10:20 AM
It may not be such a bad thing that the year that we have no choice but to spend big dollars, we will have big dollars to spend.
We will have our choice of FAs, and there will be no reason for us to not go after them.
I still believe that Carr was leaving no matter what, but we better damn well lock up Albert, and Bowe, and whoever else deserves to get paid, or I'm going to start having a problem with Pioli.
I'd also like to see Dorsey get extended during this season.

beach tribe
09-06-2012, 10:23 AM
It's almost as amusing as fans who believe their team isn't in the running for a guy they drafted because of a childhood dream. It's obvious the Chiefs didn't value Carr as much as Carr felt he was worth, that's fine, but when you find yourself light at that position and notoriously operating well under the cap, articles are going to get written.

I think had we offered Carr 50.1 million Dallas would have still out bid us for him. When Jerreh wants a player bad enough he's gonna out bid whoever else is in the running.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-06-2012, 10:26 AM
You don't pay 2 corners 50m

Setsuna
09-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Carr all but shut down Cruz. He was invisible outside of his 4 catches and 2+ drops.

Hoover
09-06-2012, 10:28 AM
You don't pay 2 corners 50m
This.

You can't over invest in one position.

O.city
09-06-2012, 10:29 AM
All but shut him down? Cruz dropped 3 balls, that if he catches, he probably has 9 catches for about 100 yards. Not all were on Carr, but a few were.


Carr didn't have a bad night, but he wasn't shut down. Like DJ said in another thread, he was better than they had and good enough.

beach tribe
09-06-2012, 10:29 AM
Carr all but shut down Cruz. He was invisible outside of his 4 catches and 2+ drops.

So, without the drops, he has 6 catches. That's not invisible.

Manning also missed a TD pass on a play that Carr was burned on.

O.city
09-06-2012, 10:30 AM
Cruz, according to ESPN had 6 catches and 50 some or 60 some yards.


I don't want to bash on Carr, he's a good-great player. But he wasn't great last night. Not bad but not great.

beach tribe
09-06-2012, 10:30 AM
All but shut him down? Cruz dropped 3 balls, that if he catches, he probably has 9 catches for about 100 yards. Not all were on Carr, but a few were.


Carr didn't have a bad night, but he wasn't shut down. Like DJ said in another thread, he was better than they had and good enough.

Yup.

Brock
09-06-2012, 10:32 AM
Carr all but shut down Cruz. He was invisible outside of his 4 catches and 2+ drops.

:LOL: Idiot.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Cruz, according to ESPN had 6 catches and 50 some or 60 some yards.


I don't want to bash on Carr, he's a good-great player. But he wasn't great last night. Not bad but not great.

I believe it was Nicks that had a big reception on a blown coverage by Carr. Carr did a great job to recover and then mis-timed his jump, resulting in a big play.

KCUnited
09-06-2012, 10:41 AM
How many free agents have EVER said that they're not looking to re-sign?

Did you really expect Carr to say (WHILE a member of the Chiefs), "I'm not looking to sign a long term contract here, I want to go to Dallas ASAP"? Of Course not.
Posted via Mobile Device

Of course not, just like I expect him to say he's always dreamed of playing for Dallas, people gravitate to what they want to believe, but at the end of the day it was about money and not some childhood dream.

The play and health of Routt can put it all to bed. The discomforting point in the article is that it looks like players are going to have to take discounted deals to re-sign. Carr walked, reports were that the talks with Bowe were never all that close, the whole time operating well under the cap.

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 10:44 AM
I love how Chief fans are going to talk themselves into Carr being a crappy player.

Setsuna
09-06-2012, 10:44 AM
:LOL: Idiot.

How am I an idiot when Cruz gave me shit on my fantasy teams? You can GTFO and get bent. Carr shut that halfy down in my book. Fuck yall.

Pestilence
09-06-2012, 10:45 AM
How am I an idiot when Cruz gave me shit on my fantasy teams? You can GTFO and get bent. Carr shut that halfy down in my book. Fuck yall.

And this is why people don't take other people who play Fantasy Football seriously...



OMG...he didn't get me 40 points.....he was shutdown!

TEX
09-06-2012, 10:46 AM
I've said it since day 1 that letting Carr walk was the DUMBEST thing KC did in a long time. They had a chance to have one of the best, built from the draft CB tandems in the NFL, and they chose another course. Some say you can't have "that" much $$$ tied to one position these days. I say why the hell not if it's really good? If you have a clear advantage - keep it - the cost was not "that" much for the advantage it provided. Especially when you are close to building a contender. Why risk taking a step backwards???

Before anyone chimes in with the "Carr wanting to be a Cowboy all his life explination", that certainly is true, BUT Carr would have stayed in KC. There is nothing wrong with this issue having two truths. When that is the case - money usually decides the issue and it did here. How do I know? Because I personally asked him. (Long story but the short of it is I work for the City of Houston in the Mayor's Office of Special Events and we visited Dallas and were taken on a tour of the new Texas Stadium and got to meet some of the players. We did the same with Dallas City officials here in Houston with the Texans.) Anyway, Carr told me that he was "Low - Balled" from the beginning and told that it was non-negotiatiable. It was basically a take-it-or-leave- it type of conversation. So, after it, he knew where he "wanted" to go - and did on the first day he could. Make no mistake - he gave the Chiefs the first chance.

I really think that the reason for all the left over $$$ since Pioli arrived is that it's the Patriot Way to find "bargains", but more than that, I think Clark Hunt issued a directive to be cheap (save when you can) - Maybe it's because Lamar has passed and there are more family interests getting more of the profits now? But it's not just on the salary cap side of the business There are other "cheap" issues that come to mind. For example, been to training camp lately? Sure has changed. It costs to park and you're way far off from the team. Everything is tied to money. Maybe its all a way to get back what the family personally invested into re-vamping Arrowhead. Who knows? Just seems a bit odd.

Reerun_KC
09-06-2012, 10:49 AM
And this is why people don't take other people who play Fantasy Football seriously...



OMG...he didn't get me 40 points.....he was shutdown!

YOU fuck nut, I have to agree with you now... Madden and Fantasy football has brought out the retard in a sports fan...

Pestilence
09-06-2012, 10:50 AM
YOU fuck nut, I have to agree with you now... Madden and Fantasy football has brought out the retard in a sports fan...

Feels dirty....doesn't it?

-King-
09-06-2012, 10:53 AM
I love how Chief fans are going to talk themselves into Carr being a crappy player.

I don't think he's crappy. But I also don't think hes significantly better than Routt.
Posted via Mobile Device

Reerun_KC
09-06-2012, 10:54 AM
Feels dirty....doesn't it?

Like sleeping with the devil....o:-)

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 10:55 AM
I love how Chief fans are going to talk themselves into Carr being a crappy player.

It's Chiefsplanet.

It's not possible that he's just a good player. He's either a HoFer or he sucks.

This place has more extreme's than the X-Games.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 10:55 AM
Before anyone chimes in with the "Carr wanting to be a Cowboy all his life explination", that certainly is true, BUT Carr would have stayed in KC. There is nothing wrong with this issue having two truths.

This, this, and more this.

lcarus
09-06-2012, 10:57 AM
I don't think he's crappy. But I also don't think hes significantly better than Routt.
Posted via Mobile Device

Time will tell with Routt I guess. I don't know much about him to be honest, other than what I saw in preseason.

I just hope Arenas can progress nicely. Is there any way he can be anything other than a nickel corner? I remember I used to think Carr sucked, but he got better and better all the time and eventually became a good starting CB.

boogblaster
09-06-2012, 10:58 AM
you cant have too much depth .... spend the money it'll pay-out lata .....

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 10:58 AM
KC will benefit from the replacement refs. They don't seem to be as inclined to throw the flag on PI calls. Routt will probably get away with some contact and not be penalized for it.

Rausch
09-06-2012, 10:59 AM
So if the GM is under the cap who keeps that exra $$$?

lcarus
09-06-2012, 11:03 AM
you cant have too much depth .... spend the money it'll pay-out lata .....

Agreed. I don't agree with the notion that you can't pay 2 CBs good money.

TEX
09-06-2012, 11:06 AM
This, this, and more this.

I'm telling you, I spoke to the man for about 20 minutes. He was very cool. He knew I was a fan rather than a reporter. He has no ill feelings against Pioli or the Chiefs because he got to play for a team that he wanted to all his life, and it was a sound business decision to do so. In fact he told me that he felt blessed to have been able to become a starter so quickly when you consider when he was drafted and where he played his college ball. He felt very fortunate that KC had the courage to draft him and play him. No ill will at all even after the low offer. He said it was clear what he needed to do afterwards.

O.city
09-06-2012, 11:06 AM
Rather inves that money in more pass rushers rather than corners

Rausch
09-06-2012, 11:20 AM
:LOL: Idiot.

Carr didn't earn his bling today but he'll do fine.

He's bad about wanting to be "big splash" and after this contract he'll probably play 2 or 3 games that way before the coaches reign him in...

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-06-2012, 11:34 AM
Carr's Contract looks like this:

5 years/$50.1 Mil

2012: Base($1.2 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $3.2 Mil CAP HIT
2013: Base($14.3 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus)= $16.3 Mil CAP HIT
2014: Base($7.5 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $9.5 Mil CAP HIT
2015: Base($8.0 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $10.0 Mil CAP HIT
2016: Base($9.1 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $11.1 Mil CAP HIT
2017: Base($10 Mil) Option


Nice to see Babb Lie.

MahiMike
09-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Come on 2013. Clark is gonna hate to write those extra checks.

O.city
09-06-2012, 11:44 AM
Isn't it 89 percent of the cash cap

TEX
09-06-2012, 12:05 PM
Carr's Contract looks like this:

5 years/$50.1 Mil

2012: Base($1.2 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $3.2 Mil CAP HIT
2013: Base($14.3 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus)= $16.3 Mil CAP HIT
2014: Base($7.5 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $9.5 Mil CAP HIT
2015: Base($8.0 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $10.0 Mil CAP HIT
2016: Base($9.1 Mil) PLUS ($2 Mil Bonus) = $11.1 Mil CAP HIT
2017: Base($10 Mil) Option


Nice to see Babb Lie.

Yes, but only roughly half ($26.5 Mil) is guaranteed -

You know, Wikipedia has been known to be wrong at times too. Just saying...

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-06-2012, 12:09 PM
Yes, but only roughly half ($26.5 Mil) is guaranteed -

You know, Wikipedia has been known to be wrong at times too. Just saying...

Do you see the Cowboys cutting Carr? I don't Carr will see all 51m.

Rausch
09-06-2012, 12:11 PM
Do you see the Cowboys cutting Carr? I don't Carr will see all 51m.

No Cowboy see's year 4...

TEX
09-06-2012, 12:24 PM
Do you see the Cowboys cutting Carr? I don't Carr will see all 51m.

No, I don't. But you never know what can happen.

scho63
09-06-2012, 12:24 PM
Our team's new logo.....

TEX
09-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Our team's new logo.....


LMAO Good one!

Count Alex's Wins
09-06-2012, 03:50 PM
That's great journalism right there. That's Claytard level writing.

Kent Babb is going to work for one of the most famous, powerful and influential journalistic institutions in the WORLD. The Washington Post.

He is a slayer of all things Pioli, and I love him for what he has done during his short time in Kansas City.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-06-2012, 04:01 PM
Pioli is just following the decades long Hunt and Chiefs tradition of fucking the fans while making a profit.

Yay.

Thisthisthisthis.

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-06-2012, 04:03 PM
Pioli makes me want to start a thread called "Being a fan; what's the fucking point"?

TEX
09-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Pioli makes me want to start a thread called "Being a fan; what's the ****ing point"?

One step forward...two steps backwards...

rtmike
09-06-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm guessing Albert, Dorsey & Bowe will all walk. Egoli's drafted their hopeful replacements the past 2 years.

That is unless they sign a very friendly deal. Which means prolly less than their rookie contracts...riiight.

Detoxing
09-06-2012, 04:14 PM
I love how Chief fans are going to talk themselves into Carr being a crappy player.

this

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-06-2012, 04:18 PM
this


Yep.

O.city
09-06-2012, 04:22 PM
Listening to 810 or 610 yesterday, can't remember which. They were saying they weren't too upset about this salary cap stuff. Said the Chiefs arent in a must win now mode, SB win now mode atleast, so why push all the chips in.


Made me upset.

TEX
09-06-2012, 04:48 PM
Listening to 810 or 610 yesterday, can't remember which. They were saying they weren't too upset about this salary cap stuff. Said the Chiefs are in a must win now mode, SB win now mode atleast, so why push all the chips in.


Made me upset.

Are or are not in a must win now mode?

O.city
09-06-2012, 04:49 PM
Are not, my bad, edited.

TEX
09-06-2012, 05:07 PM
Are not, my bad, edited.

Well if you think about it - either way I could see getting upset over the situation.

O.city
09-06-2012, 06:38 PM
JACK HARRY ‏@JACKHARRYKSHB
Clark Hunt defended Chiefs salary cap today. Says the number is 16 million not 26 million. Says team managing cap the right way. 10pm on 41.

Guru
09-06-2012, 06:41 PM
ROFL How? Cause he played average yesterday? Cause he for burned by Dominic Hixon a couple times?
Posted via Mobile Device

No he didn't. He is no Revis, but he was anything but average last night.

He obviously didn't watch the game.

Chiefnj2
09-06-2012, 06:42 PM
Says team managing cap the right way.

Ha, ha.

Clarkspeak. Right way = my pocket.

stevieray
09-06-2012, 06:43 PM
they don't care....and its pathetic.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2012, 06:44 PM
JACK HARRY ‏@JACKHARRYKSHB
Clark Hunt defended Chiefs salary cap today. Says the number is 16 million not 26 million. Says team managing cap the right way. 10pm on 41.

Because sitting on $16M is something to be praised for.

LMAO

O.city
09-06-2012, 06:45 PM
If they take that 16 mil, lock up key guys this season, does it really matter to you guys? You still be pissed?

whoman69
09-06-2012, 06:51 PM
JACK HARRY ‏@JACKHARRYKSHB
Clark Hunt defended Chiefs salary cap today. Says the number is 16 million not 26 million. Says team managing cap the right way. 10pm on 41.

I think I'll trust the independent numbers. This franchise will never win a Super Bowl with Clark Hunt as owner.

DaneMcCloud
09-06-2012, 07:02 PM
If they take that 16 mil, lock up key guys this season, does it really matter?

What?

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:03 PM
Sorry Dane, got caught up with something else and didn't finish the post.



Edited.

Count Alex's Wins
09-06-2012, 07:07 PM
they don't care....and its pathetic.

You're unusually optimistic for this time of year.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:09 PM
Some of the same stuff was said this time last year, that's being said now.


"We've got this money saved to sign our free agents coming up, if it's still there this time next year I'll be pissed"


Well......................it's next year.

Deberg_1990
09-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Dane told us years ago that Clark didn't care if they won or not as long as the money keeps flowing in.
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:16 PM
Listening to 810 or 610 yesterday, can't remember which. They were saying they weren't too upset about this salary cap stuff. Said the Chiefs arent in a must win now mode, SB win now mode atleast, so why push all the chips in.


Made me upset.

That certainly couldn't have been Petro. Anymore, he sounds like many of the people that post here.

Pretty good team, pretty bad QB.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:17 PM
Dane told us years ago that Clark didn't care if they won or not as long as the money keeps flowing in.
Posted via Mobile Device

He wasn't the only one. It's been pretty obvious for over a decade that this team had an ownership problem.

Dane's just one of the early ones who had the stones to say it.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:17 PM
I get the thought that we are young and have some young money on the books, but we have youngs guys at second contracts that are walking or needing to be paid. Also understand that we probably aren't contenders yet.


But we are at the point where we might have to spend to become contenders.

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:19 PM
I get the thought that we are young and have some young money on the books, but we have youngs guys at second contracts that are walking or needing to be paid. Also understand that we probably aren't contenders yet.


But we are at the point where we might have to spend to become contenders.

Which is why some of us are so pessimistic. This team has been at this crossroads a few times in the past 20 years and they've never made the moves that needed to be made. Just enough to be good, not enough to be GREAT.

tredadda
09-06-2012, 07:19 PM
If they take that 16 mil, lock up key guys this season, does it really matter to you guys? You still be pissed?

You mean like Bowe who they had to franchise tag due to their inability to sign? If they resign Dorsey while letting Bowe walk I will be pissed. Bowe is far better and more valuable to this team than Dorsey.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:21 PM
Which is why some of us are so pessimistic. This team has been at this crossroads a few times in the past 20 years and they've never made the moves that needed to be made. Just enough to be good, not enough to be GREAT.

Well, what we really need to do to become great, IMO, doesn't have much to do with spending as much as it does in drafting.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:22 PM
Chiefs fans have had their heart ripped out so many times. Other franchises jsut don't understand.

Bowser
09-06-2012, 07:22 PM
If they take that 16 mil, lock up key guys this season, does it really matter to you guys? You still be pissed?

You understand that we had enough cap space to have locked up Bowe and Carr before this season, and still had enough left over to go after another player, right? Maybe even get Albert locked up, too.

The cheapness of this team and how they hang on the mythical cap has been talked to death around here. It's pathetic that we keep not only going back to it, but how people try to actually justify the Chiefs being cheapskates (not necessarily you O City).

I know I couldn't give shit one if the Chiefs dumped 100 million into their starting corners, ESPECIALLY considering how much cap space we had, and neither should anyone else. If it strengthens the team, you do it. And letting Carr walk in favor of Routt was NOT strengthening this team. That we still have all this cap space left over is just an absolute joke.

tredadda
09-06-2012, 07:23 PM
I get the thought that we are young and have some young money on the books, but we have youngs guys at second contracts that are walking or needing to be paid. Also understand that we probably aren't contenders yet.


But we are at the point where we might have to spend to become contenders.

As long as we are obsessed with the crappy QB we have we need to drop as much cash as we can on our young talent. He needs as much protection as our salary cap can afford.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:24 PM
Well, if the number really is 16, how much of that was rolled over from last year?

htismaqe
09-06-2012, 07:27 PM
Well, what we really need to do to become great, IMO, doesn't have much to do with spending as much as it does in drafting.

Actually, it does have to do with spending. I know everybody hates the fact that Cassel got a "$60M contract" but the fact is, the guaranteed money was pretty small compared to the top-flight QBs in the league.

The Chiefs are really good at laying at contracts that LOOK big but really aren't. The guys that they shell out ridiculous money for are guys like Tyson Jackson. A 5T defensive end with 2 career sacks counts nearly $15M against the cap...

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:28 PM
I get the Carr argument, he was young homegrown talent. 100 mil in corners, like Bowser said doesn't bother me. It's not my money.


But with the way the NFL is set up these days, if I'm going to pour money into a single group on defense, it's pass rushers. Tamba and Houston are a good start, hopefully Poe, Powe and Bailey can turn into something, but we don't know yet.


Thats the position to stockpile.

O.city
09-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Actually, it does have to do with spending. I know everybody hates the fact that Cassel got a "$60M contract" but the fact is, the guaranteed money was pretty small compared to the top-flight QBs in the league.

The Chiefs are really good at laying at contracts that LOOK big but really aren't. The guys that they shell out ridiculous money for are guys like Tyson Jackson. A 5T defensive end with 2 career sacks counts nearly $15M against the cap...

I was talking more about drafting a home grown star qb, but I yes, you are correct.


I'd venture to say that Jackson will be cut or restructured.

tredadda
09-06-2012, 07:33 PM
I get the Carr argument, he was young homegrown talent. 100 mil in corners, like Bowser said doesn't bother me. It's not my money.


But with the way the NFL is set up these days, if I'm going to pour money into a single group on defense, it's pass rushers. Tamba and Houston are a good start, hopefully Poe, Powe and Bailey can turn into something, but we don't know yet.


Thats the position to stockpile.

Pass rushers are great but two things to consider.

1. We run a 3-4, not a 4-3 and our D-Ends are expected to stop the run, not rush the passer.

2. In our defense only 2 pass rushers play at any time, any extras come in during certain situations, but sit other than that as depth. We have two good pass rushers already, Carr would have started every down (barring injury). We would have gotten more value for him than an additional pass rusher IMO.

Count Alex's Wins
09-06-2012, 07:34 PM
Chiefs fans have had their heart ripped out so many times. Other franchises jsut don't understand.

A few more years and we will understand what Cleveland Browns fans feel like.

DTLB58
09-06-2012, 07:37 PM
I really don't give a shit about Carr. He was great and one of my favorite Chiefs this team has seen in the past 10 years. I got over his departure months ago.

If Pioli doesn't give extensions or new contracts to Bowe and Albert, however, then I will absolutely buy everything Babb is saying.

I wish Babb would have put forward a theory of why Pioli thinks the thrifty way is so damn special. But whatever.

Pioli told Clark in his interview that my parents taught me a long time ago, just because you have some extra money in your pocket doesn't mean you have to spend it.

Game, Set, Match Mr. Pioli. Job is your's Sir.

DTLB58
09-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Let's be real for a second, if we owned a NFL franchise and could have homes in whatever city we wanted, could drive quarter of a million dollar cars would we really care about what our team's record is? You are still going to bring home millions no matter how bad they are

If it were me? YES! Cause I LOVE football and I HATE losing.

And also, Lamar Hunt drove a Ford Fiesta not a quarter of a million dollar car.
He thought it was silly to spend lots of money of something like cars.

BigRock
09-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Dane told us years ago that Clark didn't care if they won or not as long as the money keeps flowing in.
Which is exactly why he kept Carl and the never-ending cycle of "Veterans! Retreads!! 9-7!!! True fans filling the stadium!!!!" in place.

Fucking Clark.

O.city
09-06-2012, 08:12 PM
Pass rushers are great but two things to consider.

1. We run a 3-4, not a 4-3 and our D-Ends are expected to stop the run, not rush the passer.

2. In our defense only 2 pass rushers play at any time, any extras come in during certain situations, but sit other than that as depth. We have two good pass rushers already, Carr would have started every down (barring injury). We would have gotten more value for him than an additional pass rusher IMO.

I get that, but Houston and Hali aren't playing every snap. Like Tuck and Osi don't play every snap.


We have some guys with ability, they need to just continue to get better.

whoman69
09-06-2012, 08:22 PM
Pass rushers are great but two things to consider.

1. We run a 3-4, not a 4-3 and our D-Ends are expected to stop the run, not rush the passer.

2. In our defense only 2 pass rushers play at any time, any extras come in during certain situations, but sit other than that as depth. We have two good pass rushers already, Carr would have started every down (barring injury). We would have gotten more value for him than an additional pass rusher IMO.

To a point. They don't always have the luxery of playing against the run. If you have three lineman that can't rush and a LB that can't rush or cover, you have 4 worthless players on the field every passing down in your base defense. That's a recipe to get beat.

stonedstooge
09-06-2012, 09:27 PM
I thought Clark would come out and argue that its 36 million not 26. The only people that will hold him accountable are his fellow owners. Just because they instituted a salary floor because of Clark, doesn't mean he won't try to find a way to manipulate his numbers. Clark and David Glass laugh their asses off over raping Kansas City in the professional sports arena

BossChief
09-06-2012, 09:54 PM
I am pretty sure JJ said they paid "retail."
He only said they "paid retail" AFTER he said they "overpaid"

It was a retraction.

Within a few minutes of signing, he went on NFLN and said he always wanted to be a Dallas Cowboy since he was a kid.

He also said that he was offered contracts and visits from a few other teams and didnt ever even think about leaving Dallas.

BigRock
09-07-2012, 10:26 AM
Babb's story has been amended with an Editor's Note.

Despite being as much as $26.6 million under the salary cap, according to figures supplied by the NFL Players Association, the Chiefs rank first in the league in cash spending for defense and third for all players in 2012. Also, details reported in this column regarding cornerback Brandon Carr’s contract with the Dallas Cowboys omitted that he received a $10 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $50.1 million deal, making his total earnings for 2012 $11.2 million.

Doesn't change the fact that they still had available money to spend under the cap. But it makes the latter half of the column an even bigger mess than it already was.

And third in spending probably deserves its own thread.

TEX
09-07-2012, 11:17 AM
He only said they "paid retail" AFTER he said they "overpaid"

It was a retraction.

Within a few minutes of signing, he went on NFLN and said he always wanted to be a Dallas Cowboy since he was a kid.

He also said that he was offered contracts and visits from a few other teams and didnt ever even think about leaving Dallas.

True - but he gave KC the first chance, via talks, and they did not offer what he wanted. In fact he said that the Chiefs basically said this is what we're offering you - take it or leave it - So, he left it and moved on. There are two truths here. True - he listened to KC first. True he always wanted to play for Dallas. Money made the decision - not any childhood loyalty issue.

Chiefnj2
09-07-2012, 11:20 AM
Pioli doesn't pay top money for talent.

saphojunkie
09-07-2012, 11:33 AM
Pass rushers are great but two things to consider.

1. We run a 3-4, not a 4-3 and our D-Ends are expected to stop the run, not rush the passer.

2. In our defense only 2 pass rushers play at any time, any extras come in during certain situations, but sit other than that as depth. We have two good pass rushers already, Carr would have started every down (barring injury). We would have gotten more value for him than an additional pass rusher IMO.

1. Even our DE should be getting pass rush. Yes. Please don't start with the "they only stop the run" thing. The Patriots DE got sacks. Richard Seymour got 8 sacks twice as the RDE for New England. Sack totals for him in NE:

3.0
5.5
8.0
5.0
4.0
4.0
1.5
8.0

2. Poe needs to be a pass rusher. Dorsey should be a pass rusher. Jackson should be a pass rusher. Everyone should be getting pressure on passing downs.

If Poe gets pressure up the middle, then Routt will be very effective. I think that must have been the thinking. Carr isn't worth that much money, because with greater QB pressure, a cheaper CB will be as effective.

We'll see if that pans out.

WhiteWhale
09-07-2012, 11:35 AM
Babb's story has been amended with an Editor's Note.



Doesn't change the fact that they still had available money to spend under the cap. But it makes the latter half of the column an even bigger mess than it already was.

And third in spending probably deserves its own thread.

All this really means is that we don't have a lot of 'dead money' in our cap.

That can be viewed several ways based on the narrative you want:

Clark is cheap narrative = We don't take chances and play it safe. We don't cut our losses on highly drafted or invested upon mistakes.

Clark is not cheap narrative = Pioli simply doesn't make a whole lot of 'shot myself in the fucking foot' type of FA signings that hurt your team and your bottom line.

Chances are there's truth to both, but this is Chiefsplanet and everything is black and white here right? :D

Deberg_1990
09-07-2012, 11:36 AM
If Poe gets pressure up the middle, then Routt will be very effective. I think that must have been the thinking. Carr isn't worth that much money, because with greater QB pressure, a cheaper CB will be as effective.

We'll see if that pans out.

Its been pretty obvious for awhile now that Pioli values linemen both defensive and offensive above nearly everything else.

BossChief
09-07-2012, 07:59 PM
Babb's story has been amended with an Editor's Note.



Doesn't change the fact that they still had available money to spend under the cap. But it makes the latter half of the column an even bigger mess than it already was.

And third in spending probably deserves its own thread.

If true, this deserves it's own thread.

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 08:58 PM
Babb's story has been amended with an Editor's Note.



Doesn't change the fact that they still had available money to spend under the cap. But it makes the latter half of the column an even bigger mess than it already was.

And third in spending probably deserves its own thread.
I surprised by this...
Posted via Mobile Device

Baconeater
09-07-2012, 09:03 PM
Pioli doesn't pay top money for talent.
Yep, he only pays top money for no-talent assclowns.

BigRock
09-07-2012, 10:35 PM
All this really means is that we don't have a lot of 'dead money' in our cap.

That can be viewed several ways based on the narrative you want:

Clark is cheap narrative = We don't take chances and play it safe. We don't cut our losses on highly drafted or invested upon mistakes.

Clark is not cheap narrative = Pioli simply doesn't make a whole lot of 'shot myself in the fucking foot' type of FA signings that hurt your team and your bottom line.

Chances are there's truth to both, but this is Chiefsplanet and everything is black and white here right? :D

It's difficult to retcon "Third in the league in spending" into a narrative that your owner is cheap.

One can certainly make the argument that Pioli should be smarter in spending it, or that he should have spent more to improve the depth on the team. Had Babb left it at that, he would have been fine.

-King-
09-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Yep, he only pays top money for no-talent assclowns.

Like Hali.

That fucking bum.

-King-
09-07-2012, 10:57 PM
And third in spending probably deserves its own thread.

If true, this deserves it's own thread.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmury6Y5jc1qbjcuj.gif

BossChief
09-07-2012, 10:58 PM
As far as the salary cap goes, if we didnt roll over unused cap space from last year we would be OVER the cap, currently.

Chiefshrink
09-07-2012, 11:42 PM
I wish Babb would have put forward a theory of why Pioli thinks the thrifty way is so damn special. But whatever.

Bellichek didn't give the $$ to Asante Samuel:shrug:

I'm sure the Patriot model is that their only a certain amount of key positions that you truly pay and all other positions you can find at a cheaper price and get just as good of play. Maybe he doesn't believe in paying 2 shutdown corners? In his model maybe you only pay one?

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-08-2012, 02:18 PM
Which is why some of us are so pessimistic. This team has been at this crossroads a few times in the past 20 years and they've never made the moves that needed to be made. Just enough to be good, not enough to be GREAT.

And it's not like it can't be done. I don't trust the Hunts one damned bit anymore.

tk13
09-08-2012, 02:22 PM
Bellichek didn't give the $$ to Asante Samuel:shrug:

I'm sure the Patriot model is that their only a certain amount of key positions that you truly pay and all other positions you can find at a cheaper price and get just as good of play. Maybe he doesn't believe in paying 2 shutdown corners? In his model maybe you only pay one?

We continue to have 100 post threads complaining about this every other day... so I don't know why I continue to say this. But:

CORNERBACKS DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

Look at the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Giants, etc. Most people can't name most of the CB's on their championship teams. Because pass rush is way more important. Especially in a league today where CBs can't breathe on the WRs. The only team with a superstar corner to win recently was probably the Packers... and Charles Woodson is a great great CB. He also happens to be good at rushing the passer... and they had a good pass rush to begin with. Teams who overpay at the CB position usually don't have success. Look at when the Chiefs got both Surtain and Law and built the defense around it. Or the Eagles doing it last year. It doesn't work. It's not a Patriot thing at all.

Marcellus
09-08-2012, 03:20 PM
As far as the salary cap goes, if we didnt roll over unused cap space from last year we would be OVER the cap, currently.

Is this accurate?

Baconeater
09-08-2012, 03:22 PM
Like Hali.

That fucking bum.
He's not going to do us a damn bit of good tomorrow.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-08-2012, 04:22 PM
We continue to have 100 post threads complaining about this every other day... so I don't know why I continue to say this. But:

CORNERBACKS DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

Look at the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Giants, etc. Most people can't name most of the CB's on their championship teams. Because pass rush is way more important. Especially in a league today where CBs can't breathe on the WRs. The only team with a superstar corner to win recently was probably the Packers... and Charles Woodson is a great great CB. He also happens to be good at rushing the passer... and they had a good pass rush to begin with. Teams who overpay at the CB position usually don't have success. Look at when the Chiefs got both Surtain and Law and built the defense around it. Or the Eagles doing it last year. It doesn't work. It's not a Patriot thing at all.

tk bringing the pain :clap: Don't let logic get in the way of a good bitching session though

SNR
09-08-2012, 04:45 PM
We continue to have 100 post threads complaining about this every other day... so I don't know why I continue to say this. But:

CORNERBACKS DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

Look at the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Giants, etc. Most people can't name most of the CB's on their championship teams. Because pass rush is way more important. Especially in a league today where CBs can't breathe on the WRs. The only team with a superstar corner to win recently was probably the Packers... and Charles Woodson is a great great CB. He also happens to be good at rushing the passer... and they had a good pass rush to begin with. Teams who overpay at the CB position usually don't have success. Look at when the Chiefs got both Surtain and Law and built the defense around it. Or the Eagles doing it last year. It doesn't work. It's not a Patriot thing at all.Woodson was injured the entire second half of that Super Bowl as well

BossChief
09-08-2012, 05:13 PM
Is this accurate?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7570116/nfl-plenty-cap-room-improve
The Kansas City Chiefs have $62.995 million after budgeting $24.014 million from the 2011 season.

....

The OP states we are 26 million under the cap...at most, and that figure is according to the players association.

Count Alex's Wins
09-08-2012, 05:27 PM
Look at the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Giants, etc.

Hmmm...what did those teams have that we don't....

So maybe we need another CB to make up for that.

BossChief
09-08-2012, 05:32 PM
Woodson was injured the entire second half of that Super Bowl as well

Why do you hate Brandon Carr and his family?