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Silock
09-07-2012, 10:07 AM
Can I just put primer on the paper before I mud over it, or do I have to go to Sherwin Williams and get this Gardz stuff? I already have the primer, so one less trip would be great.

penguinz
09-07-2012, 10:15 AM
Yes. Just make sure you use a quality Primer such as Killz

Brock
09-07-2012, 10:24 AM
Why would you primer it before you mud?

Silock
09-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Why would you primer it before you mud?

Because the paper is exposed . . .

Silock
09-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Yes. Just make sure you use a quality Primer such as Killz

That's what I have.

mikeyis4dcats.
09-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Yoo prime before you PAINT, not finish.

Kilz is not necessary unless there is something on the drywall that could bleed through (oil, marking pen, etc.).

A standard drywall primer is fine, available at any home or paint store.

Brock
09-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Because the paper is exposed . . .

Do you mean the paper is ripped? Drywall paper is made to take mud. You may need to watch some DIY videos before doing this.

mikeyis4dcats.
09-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Because the paper is exposed . . .

you mean the paper is torn?

http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/images/torn-drywall-paper.jpg

If so, you need to carefully and cleanly cut out that area of paper with a utility knife so that only the damage layers of the brown paper are removed. You want to end up with a clean, smooth brown surface that looks like toilet paper roll. Then you DO need to seal it with an oil base primer such as Kilz.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 11:09 AM
Home Depot also offers paint with primer

Luke Warm
09-07-2012, 11:19 AM
White out....scotch tape.

You're welcome.

Silock
09-07-2012, 11:46 AM
you mean the paper is torn?

http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/images/torn-drywall-paper.jpg

If so, you need to carefully and cleanly cut out that area of paper with a utility knife so that only the damage layers of the brown paper are removed. You want to end up with a clean, smooth brown surface that looks like toilet paper roll. Then you DO need to seal it with an oil base primer such as Kilz.

Yes, this is my problem. I cut out the paper that is torn, but I can't get it much smoother without taking off more paper. I'm using 220 grit. Do I need finer grit? Wet sand it?

Phobia
09-07-2012, 11:53 AM
Seal it up with the primer at this point. That will harden the last little bits and it will sand better for you. Do not wet sand torn drywall paper. That's just going to make a bigger mess.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 11:58 AM
Seal it up with the primer at this point. That will harden the last little bits and it will sand better for you. Do not wet sand torn drywall paper. That's just going to make a bigger mess.

Why not throw some mud on there?

Just a question from a non-professional, not a disagreement.

Phobia
09-07-2012, 12:16 PM
Why not throw some mud on there?

Just a question from a non-professional, not a disagreement.

For the same reason you can't wet-sand it. Mud is going to moisten the torn paper and make it a mess. It won't sit down and dry properly without being sealed first.

In some cases, it will work - like if you're putting a heavy coat of mud on top that mud will harden and probably be fine but if you're just skimming, the paper will bubble, separate from the gypsum, and never sit flat for a nice finish.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 12:18 PM
For the same reason you can't wet-sand it. Mud is going to moisten the torn paper and make it a mess. It won't sit down and dry properly without being sealed first.

In some cases, it will work - like if you're putting a heavy coat of mud on top that mud will harden and probably be fine but if you're just skimming, the paper will bubble, separate from the gypsum, and never sit flat for a nice finish.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 12:44 PM
Home Depot also offers paint with primer
It's garbage. Primer and paint are two different products that do two different things, and that stuff doesn't do either of them well.

mikeyis4dcats.
09-07-2012, 04:29 PM
Yes, this is my problem. I cut out the paper that is torn, but I can't get it much smoother without taking off more paper. I'm using 220 grit. Do I need finer grit? Wet sand it?

you shouldn't be sanding it, just peeling off the layers.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 04:33 PM
It's garbage. Primer and paint are two different products that do two different things, and that stuff doesn't do either of them well.

That's good to know. I recently had a paint contractor recommend it but we went with Killz and Dunn-Edwards paint (which was excruciatingly expensive).

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 04:42 PM
That's good to know. I recently had a paint contractor recommend it but we went with Killz and Dunn-Edwards paint (which was excruciatingly expensive).
Yikes, I would be wary of any contractor who uses that stuff. I suppose it's not a bad alternative for do-it-yourselfers or for rental property where the results aren't as important, but as a professional I would never use it again.

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Good choice Dane.

I had to fire a painter who refused to use anything but paint/primer on my brand new drywall.

Looked like shit
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:04 PM
Yikes, I would be wary of any contractor who uses that stuff. I suppose it's not a bad alternative for do-it-yourselfers or for rental property where the results aren't as important, but as a professional I would never use it again.

Yeah, we didn't use him.

But JFC, is paint as expensive there as it is here? It was $42 dollars a gallon plus tax. I used to get the same brand for $26 dollars a gallon just a few years ago.

They blamed it on freight costs but really?

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:05 PM
Good choice Dane.

I had to fire a painter who refused to use anything but paint/primer on my brand new drywall.

Looked like shit
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, good to know. Yeah, on new drywall, my experience has been that Killz is the best move.

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 05:07 PM
Yeah, we didn't use him.

But JFC, is paint as expensive there as it is here? It was $42 dollars a gallon plus tax. I used to get the same brand for $26 dollars a gallon just a few years ago.

They blamed it on freight costs but really?
Paint is fucking expensive
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Wow, good to know. Yeah, on new drywall, my experience has been that Killz is the best move.

Yep we did every inch.

Then painted all of it.

Not me though. I will never touch a paint brush again. professionals.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 05:19 PM
Yeah, we didn't use him.

But JFC, is paint as expensive there as it is here? It was $42 dollars a gallon plus tax. I used to get the same brand for $26 dollars a gallon just a few years ago.

They blamed it on freight costs but really?
Oil based paints jumped way up a few years back but water based have been pretty stable, I pay just under $20/gal for a decent eggshell finish interior paint. Semi glosses and exterior paints are a buck or so more a gallon. I still get it at contractor price though.

JoeyChuckles
09-07-2012, 05:20 PM
I nominate this thread for Hall of Boring.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:22 PM
Oil based paints jumped way up a few years back but water based have been pretty stable, I pay just under $20/gal for a decent eggshell finish interior paint. Semi glosses and exterior paints are a buck or so more a gallon. I still get it at contractor price though.

I paid $42 dollars for a gallon of Dunn-Edward satin and that same price for eggshell, which believe it or not, was the discounted contractor rate.

Home Depot paint is about $28 dollars a gallon but the overwhelming majority of paint contractors out here hate it.

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Wow, good to know. Yeah, on new drywall, my experience has been that Killz is the best move.
Kilz2 works ok, but I normally use flat finish wall paint, it has better build. Throw about a quart or so of water in a gallon and it spreads out real nice. One coat of that and two coats of eggshell/semi gloss over it and you'll get a great finish.

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 05:26 PM
I paid $42 dollars for a gallon of Dunn-Edward satin and that same price for eggshell, which believe it or not, was the discounted contractor rate.

Home Depot paint is about $28 dollars a gallon but the overwhelming majority of paint contractors out here hate it.
I've had issues with that Behr crap HD sells, I'm not a fan. I think they also have Glidden paints which I would recommend using if going there. I've never heard of Dunn-Edwards, it's probably a higher-end brand. I haven't had enough customers willing to pay for high end paints to know if they're worth the extra money or not.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:28 PM
Yep we did every inch.

Then painted all of it.

Not me though. I will never touch a paint brush again. professionals.
Posted via Mobile Device

Me, either.

Back in 2004, during the first round of remodeling, I paid $200 to have a 21x21 room painted (for the second time, I might add). My wife didn't like the color she chose, so I called the paint contractor and asked him how much it would cost to repaint.

The answer was $200 dollars.

Well, in my infinite wisdom, I said fuck that, bought all the supplies and paint and decided to do it myself.

My wife chose a very deep purple color for our then Entertainment Room (pool table, bar, etc.) in eggshell. For the life of me, I couldn't get the paint rollers from not streaking and looking like a newly mowed yard with lines after each and every roll.

After a few days, more money spent on rollers, etc., I gave up. I'd blown $150 dollars trying to do it myself and decided to call the paint contractor.

Me: Hey Kenny, I'm having issues with streaking. How much to paint the room? There are several coats of paint, so coverage won't be an issue. Just the streaks.

Kenny: $200 dollars!

Bottom line, I spent $350 dollars to paint a room that would have cost $200 if I had left it to the professionals.

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 05:30 PM
I nominate this thread for Hall of Boring.
It's about as exciting as watching paint dry.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:30 PM
I've had issues with that Behr crap HD sells, I'm not a fan. I think they also have Glidden paints which I would recommend using if going there. I've never heard of Dunn-Edwards, it's probably a higher-end brand. I haven't had enough customers willing to pay for high end paints to know if they're worth the extra money or not.

Thanks for the Glidden tip! We have essentially two individual paint companies out here: Frazee and Dunn-Edwards. All of the paint contractors I've interviewed over the years prefer the Dunn-Edwards and so far, it's help up extremely well, even the exterior (which was painted 9+ years ago and hasn't faded in the strong SoCal sun).

Anyway, both Frazee and Dunn-Edwards are expensive, so I generally stick with what's recommended.

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 05:33 PM
Lol. I painted the whole interior of the house a couple years ago.
I absolutely hated every fucking minute of it. Never thought about killing my self either before our after that but was contemplating it then. Lol( not really but you ger it)

When the addition was ready to paint I hired a guy who sucked, fired him and was going to tackle it and a car got towed in, the guy was broke I fixed it for him and we got to bullshitting around, lo and behold he was a painter. Trade out ftmfw
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:39 PM
Lol. I painted the whole interior of the house a couple years ago.
I absolutely hated every fucking minute of it. Never thought about killing my self either before our after that but was contemplating it then. Lol( not really but you ger it)

When the addition was ready to paint I hired a guy who sucked, fired him and was going to tackle it and a car got towed in, the guy was broke I fixed it for him and we got to bullshitting around, lo and behold he was a painter. Trade out ftmfw
Posted via Mobile Device

Nice!

Bugeater
09-07-2012, 05:54 PM
Lol. I painted the whole interior of the house a couple years ago.
I absolutely hated every fucking minute of it. Never thought about killing my self either before our after that but was contemplating it then. Lol( not really but you ger it)

When the addition was ready to paint I hired a guy who sucked, fired him and was going to tackle it and a car got towed in, the guy was broke I fixed it for him and we got to bullshitting around, lo and behold he was a painter. Trade out ftmfw
Posted via Mobile Device
Yeah, and I'd think about killing myself if I ever tried rebuilding an engine with my Craftsman socket set. Pretty much any task can be frustrating if you don't know what you're doing and you don't have the right tools. There's only one brand of brush I will buy, and I only use lamb's wool rollers. Anything else will make you tear your hair out.

JASONSAUTO
09-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Yeah, and I'd think about killing myself if I ever tried rebuilding an engine with my Craftsman socket set. Pretty much any task can be frustrating if you don't know what you're doing and you don't have the right tools. There's only one brand of brush I will buy, and I only use lamb's wool rollers. Anything else will make you tear your hair out.

I know. Lol.

Actually anything that had to do with wood butchering makes me feel the suicidal twinge...
Posted via Mobile Device

cdcox
09-07-2012, 06:31 PM
Yeah, I used the Gardz stuff and it worked great. It seals better than a regular primer. Then you can mud over it and taper it perfectly in with the rest.

Over-Head
09-07-2012, 10:16 PM
For the same reason you can't wet-sand it. Mud is going to moisten the torn paper and make it a mess. It won't sit down and dry properly without being sealed first.

In some cases, it will work - like if you're putting a heavy coat of mud on top that mud will harden and probably be fine but if you're just skimming, the paper will bubble, separate from the gypsum, and never sit flat for a nice finish.

STILL the same ****en idiot "wanna be know it all" you'll always portrayed your self to be" Stick to General contracting and let the PROFESSIONALS answer this question Philamina

Hit it with a quick set powder mud like CGC sheetrock 90 or the USA equilivant, , level it with a coat of mud, then skim it wih a thin coat of mud . Lightly Sand in between coats by the way.

While Phil is "trying" to answer your question, he hasen';t a ****en clue.
Once the paper is exposed, there's really nothing you can do but build it up to surface level.
IF he ACTUALLY knew what he was talking about he would see from your pic, the gypsum ISNT expoced, even if it was, it wouldn't matter.

WHY??

Simple, today's "mud" products are calcium based, as opposed to "pre" 1960 Morter based plaster products, which would require a bonding agent, and multiple bonding coats
.
Prime, then cover it with a "wiz roller" of finish, second coat it with the same technique, then finish the whole wall.
depending on your choice of finish I'd recommend Benjamin Moore "Ben" series, or Aura.

IF you were to follow Philimeanas advice you'd be re-gyprocking the whole dam wall. But then general contractors rarley know what the fuck is going on anyways

Any further questions feel free to ask me through email jeffchildsceilingmaster@gmail.com

jspchief
09-07-2012, 10:29 PM
STILL the same ****en idiot "wanna be know it all" you'll always portrayed your self to be" Stick to General contracting and let the PROFESSIONALS answer this question Philamina

Hit it with a quick set powder mud like CGC sheetrock 90 or the USA equilivant, , level it with a coat of mud, then skim it wih a thin coat of mud . Lightly Sand in between coats by the way.

While Phil is "trying" to answer your question, he hasen';t a ****en clue.
Once the paper is exposed, there's really nothing you can do but build it up to surface level.
IF he ACTUALLY knew what he was talking about he would see from your pic, the gypsum ISNT expoced, even if it was, it wouldn't matter.

WHY??

Simple, today's "mud" products are calcium based, as opposed to "pre" 1960 Morter based plaster products, which would require a bonding agent, and multiple bonding coats
.
Prime, then cover it with a "wiz roller" of finish, second coat it with the same technique, then finish the whole wall.
depending on your choice of finish I'd recommend Benjamin Moore "Ben" series, or Aura.

IF you were to follow Philimeanas advice you'd be re-gyprocking the whole dam wall. But then general contractors rarley know what the fuck is going on anyways

Any further questions feel free to ask me through email jeffchildsceilingmaster@gmail.com

Lol I don't have comment on this post other than the reference to quick set mud. A few years back I bought some shit to level out some damage from removing wallpaper. It set so god damn fast I couldn't get it from the bucket to the wall without it setting up. Crazy stuff.

acesn8s
09-07-2012, 10:34 PM
Oil based paints jumped way up a few years back but water based have been pretty stable, I pay just under $20/gal for a decent eggshell finish interior paint. Semi glosses and exterior paints are a buck or so more a gallon. I still get it at contractor price though.Can I get some from ya?

Over-Head
09-07-2012, 10:36 PM
It set so god damn fast I couldn't get it from the bucket to the wall without it setting up. Crazy stuff.
Thats why you hire a pro, who's used to working with it.
I use 20, 45, and 90min set up compounds buy the bag full every week.
A slow week for me is ONLY 15 OR 20 (30lb) bags

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 10:39 PM
Hit it with a quick set powder mud like CGC sheetrock 90 or the USA equilivant, , level it with a coat of mud, then skim it wih a thin coat of mud. Lightly Sand in between coats by the way.

That's nice info, Dude. But wasn't your response a little harsh? Or am I missing something that happened between you two?

Glad you're doing well.

Over-Head
09-07-2012, 10:44 PM
That's nice info, Dude. But wasn't your response a little harsh? Or am I missing something that happened between you two?

Glad you're doing well.
the KING of harsh chastising some one else???...Go back to hollyweird

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 10:46 PM
the KING of harsh chastising some one else???...Go back to hollyweird

If you're going to be an asshole, take some of that 20 and shove it up your stupid fucking Raider ass, you fucking retarded, drunk, drugged-out Canuck.

Still hittin' the pipe?

Over-Head
09-07-2012, 10:47 PM
If you're going to be an asshole, take some of that 20 and shove it up your stupid ****ing Raider ass, you ****ing retarded, drunk, drugged-out Canuck.

Still hittin' the pipe?

yep,,,,,havent changed a bit have ya...stone cold sober by the way...How about you?

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 10:49 PM
yep,,,,,havent changed a bit have ya...stone cold sober by the way...How about you?

How about me? I've never had an issue with drugs or alcohol.

And how could I go back to Hollyweird when I never left?

Phobia
09-07-2012, 10:50 PM
Obviously, you're the expert and I'll defer to your expert opinion, Jeff. That picture wasn't from the OP. The general advice I gave is fine for a DIY homeowner albeit not nearly as good as yours. I still don't understand the venom but you're a grown man and I'm not gonna try to win your heart. Glad to see you're alive and kicking.

Phobia
09-07-2012, 10:52 PM
That's nice info, Dude. But wasn't your response a little harsh? Or am I missing something that happened between you two?

Glad you're doing well.

Heh. Yeah, it was. I missed it too. I found out on facebook he apparently disagreed with something I did or thought I lied about something and left the Planet forever. I don't understand it but that's okay, I guess.

Silock
09-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Wow, this thread sure got weird.

Anyway, I was concerned about the paper not being sealed because I tried to use some joint compound on one area, and the paper just seemed like it absorbed all the moisture and it took forever for the mud to dry (5+ hours, when the rest of it set and sanded in 20 minutes).

I was under the impression that that was a bad thing. Am I wrong? I honestly have no clue. Obviously, just going on with quick set instead of taking an extra sealing step seems like it would be far less work, as I'm going to have to sand and mud it a couple of times at least, anyway.

I'm just as confused now as when I started the thread . . .

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 11:53 PM
I'm just as confused now as when I started the thread . . .

Although I'm not a professional, I've spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars remodeling my home.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure you're okay.

:D

Silock
09-07-2012, 11:57 PM
Here's a couple of pics of what I'm concerned about.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg121/Silock99/EE85DFC8-454E-44D4-8EF4-12F165201B3F-16701-000022EC2F60ED10.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg121/Silock99/4A17DC14-9746-4065-9169-660161B2E08D-16701-000022EC25710EEC.jpg

Phobia
09-07-2012, 11:58 PM
Dude - Overhead is a guy who has done this stuff professionally for decades. It's all he does. Yeah, he's going to have some techniques that work better for him. The average joe isn't going to want to play with speed mud. The technique I suggested for you is a novice-friendly method of dealing with your problem. As long as you have to shredded paper cleaned up to the best of your ability, it will work fine. I've done it.

Or you could just hire Jeff to fly down and fix it. He's incredibly talented with mud. Probably one of the best artisans in North America.

Silock
09-07-2012, 11:58 PM
Although I'm not a professional, I've spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars remodeling my home.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure you're okay.

:D

!!

That's a lot of dollars. I've spent maybe 20 grand, and that's being generous and including a 3D projector lol

Phobia
09-08-2012, 12:00 AM
Clean that paper up a little better with a utility knife blade before you seal it up.

DaneMcCloud
09-08-2012, 12:04 AM
!!

That's a lot of dollars. I've spent maybe 20 grand, and that's being generous and including a 3D projector lol

If you're really concerned about it (which I wouldn't be), cut that piece out, replace it with new drywall and be done with it.

Good luck!

Silock
09-08-2012, 12:05 AM
Yeah, I haven't worked too hard on that particular area yet. That's just what I'm looking at tackling tomorrow.

Groves
09-08-2012, 05:45 AM
There's only one brand of brush I will buy, and I only use lamb's wool rollers. Anything else will make you tear your hair out.

Out with it, Bug.

Nice to see Over-head, too. You been working all night on custom jobs again? Cranky.

rad
09-08-2012, 07:34 AM
I had this problem a while back and I hit it with a little anti-freeze.

If you don't have some handy, just siphon some blinker fluid out of your car, it's basically the same stuff.

(slackers) :shake:

Over-Head
09-09-2012, 06:43 PM
Heh. Yeah, it was. I missed it too. I found out on facebook he apparently disagreed with something I did or thought I lied about something and left the Planet forever. I don't understand it but that's okay, I guess.Again, playing spin doctor, last post I made over a year ago was to hogfarmer where I said ...."**** you, **** the chiefs, and **** the cesspool this place has become...I"m outa here.
....DAMN me and my autodiadict memory....I'll just sum it up with WHO has WHO blocked on FB Phil????

I Didin't leave ANY time limit as to when of IF I may return.
UNLIKE Dane McButt Hurt who when proven wrong and called on his shit over a year ago DID in fact post an "I'm gone forever thread....But low and behold here he is....

Over-Head
09-09-2012, 06:45 PM
If you're going to be an asshole, take some of that 20 and shove it up your stupid ****ing Raider ass, you ****ing retarded, drunk, drugged-out Canuck.

Still hittin' the pipe?

Damn didn't I perfect the "Goat boy stir em up, and watch em act predictable post".........

Too bad your such a class A fool to realise you were just played.

Silock
09-10-2012, 06:54 AM
Okay, so I sealed it on Saturday, let it dry until this morning. Just mudded it, and the paper is still bubbling up through the mud. Wtf did I do wrong?

Ace Gunner
09-10-2012, 06:57 AM
put a rug over it.

Silock
09-10-2012, 07:09 AM
put a rug over it.

You know, that would really tie the room together.

penguinz
09-10-2012, 07:52 AM
Okay, so I sealed it on Saturday, let it dry until this morning. Just mudded it, and the paper is still bubbling up through the mud. Wtf did I do wrong?Wood paneling!http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/la/060909_wood.jpg

Phobia
09-10-2012, 08:28 AM
I'll just sum it up with WHO has WHO blocked on FB Phil????


I'm guessing since you brought it up and based on one of your crazy rants above, I blocked you. But I honestly don't remember for sure. My tolerance for idiots on facebook is vastly less than here, mostly because facebook has much better tools for blocking people. I enjoy cutting nonsense and drama out of my life. If only it were as easy as facebook makes it everywhere else.

Phobia
09-10-2012, 08:31 AM
Okay, so I sealed it on Saturday, let it dry until this morning. Just mudded it, and the paper is still bubbling up through the mud. Wtf did I do wrong?

If it's actually sealed up, it's probably not bubbling through. You just have paper pushing through the surface. You have to get the paper down below the bed of mud or build the mud up. Neither is fun nor efficient.

Silock
09-10-2012, 10:23 AM
So I should just cut it out and replace the drywall? Sounds easier.

Phobia
09-10-2012, 10:27 AM
I don't think that's easier but you might. If you're at the end of your rope on this, give it a shot. But cutting it out and replacing isn't without its own challenges and tricks either. All this trouble you're having is why I carry a drywall stud on staff. She resolves all this crap and I don't have to mess with it. It's always better to let a pro handle things that require years of skills development. TV shows make it look easy. It's not. Not in the slightest.

Silock
09-10-2012, 10:51 AM
So how would I get the paper below the bed of mud? Maybe I'm not mudding correctly. Maybe I didn't put it on thickly enough.

DaneMcCloud
09-10-2012, 11:29 AM
UNLIKE Dane McButt Hurt who when proven wrong and called on his shit over a year ago DID in fact post an "I'm gone forever thread....But low and behold here he is....

What the fuck are you talking about? You can barely spell or put together coherent sentences. I think you're the only person that can understand your gibberish.

Good luck with that, Asshole.

DaneMcCloud
09-10-2012, 11:30 AM
Damn didn't I perfect the "Goat boy stir em up, and watch em act predictable post".........

Too bad your such a class A fool to realise you were just played.

Yeah, I'm the fool.

LMAO

All that crack has made you delusional, Newfie.

Over-Head
09-11-2012, 03:46 PM
Okay, so I sealed it on Saturday, let it dry until this morning. Just mudded it, and the paper is still bubbling up through the mud. Wtf did I do wrong?


Ok, so you descided to "seal it" then mud it, with some kind of paint...(sorry, but about the WORST thing you could have done), and now it’s bubbling through.

WHY??

Well, it’s really rather simple, when you understand that a sheet of Gyproc is made from a composit calcium compound surounded on BOTH sides by TWO sheets of paper. The first being the "bonding "page"", the second being the top face sheet, which is made with 70% glue to try and STOP moisture saturation.

This is also why they created "Blue Board" for bathrooms.

See it’s a a weird relationship between drywall and paint....They realy dsont like each other. Thats why PRIMER is such a fast drying product, it drys so fast it doesnt have a chance to soak all the way through, BUT creates a "water proof" seal for the finish coat to be applied.
. Think about what happens when you spill water on paper??? Thats exactly what your doing when you "paint" drywall.

The pic’s your showing, show that the "water barrier" coat of paper has been ripped off, what’s left is the "bonding" paper which holds the gypsum retain it’s shape in a "sheet" form.

By Painting it with ANY kind of paint what you did was allow small amounts to seep between the TWO layers of paper surrounding the torn area...thus resulting in loosening the adhesion of the double layer of paper.

Now add to this the fact that ANY home regardless of how well you clean it, will have air born particles, these particles, IE: animal hair, cooking oders, hair car products, smoke (not just ciggs, but cooking) etc, etc, etc, land on painted surfaces, and create a berrier which DOESNT like paintor mud products.

The exposed paper would have had a better adhesion than ANY paint you could have put on top of it.

BUT...Since you did take the advice of others and "paint/prime" it...you’ve lost some of that adhesion, not to mention compounded the problem. As mud and paint although will adhere together, really don’t like to "dance".

At this point, what you need to do is...

Cut out the effected area, if possible, (but not really super important)...try not to go all the way through to the gypsum.
If ya do no biggie...

Hit it with any kind of quick set "mud" compound, and wipe it tight to the surface.
If you don’t think you’re able to mix this up,,,then just go with a commercial brand of per mixed drywall mud., let it sit over night.

Lightly sand, then hit it again, you want to add aprox: a 32<SUP>nd</SUP> of an inch
thick coat, let it sit until dry.....lightly sand,
hit it a 3<SUP>rd</SUP> time...finish sand

then SEAL it with a product like Benjamin Moor’s "Fresh Start" which is a water damage/Stain sealer...this will NATURALIZE these aforementioned air born oils and particles which don’t like plaster or paint.
Once that primer is dry...finish with what ever top coat you choose.
 
 
 
Your welcome.

Over-Head
09-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I'm the fool.

LMAO

All that crack has made you delusional, Newfie.
As I said...The King of HARSH...go play in the traffic.

Silock
09-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Ok, so you descided to "seal it" then mud it, with some kind of paint...(sorry, but about the WORST thing you could have done), and now itís bubbling through.

WHY??

Well, itís really rather simple, when you understand that a sheet of Gyproc is made from a composit calcium compound surounded on BOTH sides by TWO sheets of paper. The first being the "bonding "page"", the second being the top face sheet, which is made with 70% glue to try and STOP moisture saturation.

This is also why they created "Blue Board" for bathrooms.

See itís a a weird relationship between drywall and paint....They realy dsont like each other. Thats why PRIMER is such a fast drying product, it drys so fast it doesnt have a chance to soak all the way through, BUT creates a "water proof" seal for the finish coat to be applied.
. Think about what happens when you spill water on paper??? Thats exactly what your doing when you "paint" drywall.

The picís your showing, show that the "water barrier" coat of paper has been ripped off, whatís left is the "bonding" paper which holds the gypsum retain itís shape in a "sheet" form.

By Painting it with ANY kind of paint what you did was allow small amounts to seep between the TWO layers of paper surrounding the torn area...thus resulting in loosening the adhesion of the double layer of paper.

Now add to this the fact that ANY home regardless of how well you clean it, will have air born particles, these particles, IE: animal hair, cooking oders, hair car products, smoke (not just ciggs, but cooking) etc, etc, etc, land on painted surfaces, and create a berrier which DOESNT like paintor mud products.

The exposed paper would have had a better adhesion than ANY paint you could have put on top of it.

BUT...Since you did take the advice of others and "paint/prime" it...youíve lost some of that adhesion, not to mention compounded the problem. As mud and paint although will adhere together, really donít like to "dance".

At this point, what you need to do is...

Cut out the effected area, if possible, (but not really super important)...try not to go all the way through to the gypsum.
If ya do no biggie...

Hit it with any kind of quick set "mud" compound, and wipe it tight to the surface.
If you donít think youíre able to mix this up,,,then just go with a commercial brand of per mixed drywall mud., let it sit over night.

Lightly sand, then hit it again, you want to add aprox: a 32<SUP>nd</SUP> of an inch
thick coat, let it sit until dry.....lightly sand,
hit it a 3<SUP>rd</SUP> time...finish sand

then SEAL it with a product like Benjamin Moorís "Fresh Start" which is a water damage/Stain sealer...this will NATURALIZE these aforementioned air born oils and particles which donít like plaster or paint.
Once that primer is dry...finish with what ever top coat you choose.
 
 
 
Your welcome.

Cut it out how? With just a utility knife? Could I use my sander and just sand it down thoroughly?

Bugeater
09-11-2012, 04:29 PM
What type of primer did you use? Oil or water based?

Silock
09-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Water. It is in my basement, and I had no real way to deal with the fumes of oil-based primer. Only one very small egress window. I used Kilz 2.

Bugeater
09-11-2012, 04:49 PM
Bummer, because oil is what you probably need to use. What is likely happening is the water in the drywall mud is loosening up the paper. A solid layer of oil based primer will prevent that. 4 out of 5 times the acrylic primers will do the job, but for stubborn stuff like that you gotta go oil.

mikeyis4dcats.
09-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Water. It is in my basement, and I had no real way to deal with the fumes of oil-based primer. Only one very small egress window. I used Kilz 2.

as i posted before, you NEEDED to use OIL based primer. That is why it bubbled.

WV
09-11-2012, 06:16 PM
I'm glad over-head posted his stuff...confirmed what I would have done. Just mud it and be done with it.

Silock
09-11-2012, 07:51 PM
as i posted before, you NEEDED to use OIL based primer. That is why it bubbled.

Okay, well, any suggestions on how to use the oil primer in a non ventilated area without killing myself or my pets?

Phobia
09-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Bummer, because oil is what you probably need to use. What is likely happening is the water in the drywall mud is loosening up the paper. A solid layer of oil based primer will prevent that. 4 out of 5 times the acrylic primers will do the job, but for stubborn stuff like that you gotta go oil.

Key point. I carry spray kilz oil in a can for crap like this. Never occurred to me that he might use a water base primer because I've never really used one. My fault.

Phobia
09-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Okay, well, any suggestions on how to use the oil primer in a non ventilated area without killing myself or my pets?

I'm not certain but I think a specialty paint store has an additive that will neutralize that. Either that or just use a respirator. You can buy a respirator pretty cheaply and it's not like those fumes forever.

cdcox
09-11-2012, 10:02 PM
I used the Gardz Problem Surface Sealer. It will seal under the torn paper and won't bubble up.

Bugeater
09-11-2012, 10:48 PM
Key point. I carry spray kilz oil in a can for crap like this. Never occurred to me that he might use a water base primer because I've never really used one. My fault.
Not really, I've had plenty of success with Kilz2 in this sort of application. Once in a while I'll have to go back over some areas a few times, and once in a very great while it simply won't work and I have to break out the Original Kilz.

Phobia
09-11-2012, 11:32 PM
Not really, I've had plenty of success with Kilz2 in this sort of application. Once in a while I'll have to go back over some areas a few times, and once in a very great while it simply won't work and I have to break out the Original Kilz.

There's the rub. Lots of different techniques for various problems. Sometimes your tried and true works and sometimes it doesn't. Then you dig deeper into the bag of tricks. I the people who work with me a roadmap and point to the destination for our projects. If they are more efficient utilizing a different technique than I would use myself, that's fine with me. More than 9 ways to skin a cat... errr, I love mixing metaphors.