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View Full Version : Football Saints: Bounty Bans Overturned


QuikSsurfer
09-07-2012, 02:55 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8349080/sources-suspensions-jonathan-vilma-smith-scott-fujita-anthony-hargrove-overturned-arbitration-panel

Suspensions for four players connected to the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal have been overturned by a three-man arbitration panel, sources tell ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

The ruling should clear Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Scott Fujita and Anthony Hargrove to start the season.

"Victory is mine!!!! -stewie griffin," Vilma tweeted Friday afternoon.

The panel's decision affects the players only, not suspended coaches Gregg Williams, Sean Payton and Joe Vitt.
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Detoxing
09-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Damnit.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 02:57 PM
Right on.

Goodell should be ashamed of himself.

QuikSsurfer
09-07-2012, 02:57 PM
::sigh:: -- I'm going to the Chiefs/Saints game on week 3... Should be a fun game to watch with my family of Saints fans.

Dicky McElephant
09-07-2012, 02:58 PM
Goodell looks like EVEN MORE of a douche now.

-King-
09-07-2012, 02:58 PM
ROFL

Goodell got owned.

Deberg_1990
09-07-2012, 03:00 PM
Nice!

Chief Roundup
09-07-2012, 03:05 PM
Good for the players.

Count Alex's Losses
09-07-2012, 03:06 PM
0-3

KC Tattoo
09-07-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm all for "sticking it to the man" but this is bad timing for us. Damn.

Good for them, bad for us.

Hog Farmer
09-07-2012, 03:09 PM
This is bullshit . They should at least be banned for the third game of the season !

O.city
09-07-2012, 03:13 PM
Don't really care about Vilma, he's kinda shit now. Smith is good tho.

New World Order
09-07-2012, 03:19 PM
Good for them bad for us

O.city
09-07-2012, 03:21 PM
Vilma to the PUP, Smith could start playing sooner than later.

Micjones
09-07-2012, 03:21 PM
They were part of one of the worst league scandals in quite some time, but they'll play.
Tamba gets caught with a joint and he'll sit? Fuck that noise.

alpha_omega
09-07-2012, 03:21 PM
What about the coach(es)?

lcarus
09-07-2012, 03:23 PM
They were part of one of the worst league scandals in quite some time, but they'll play.
Tamba gets caught with a joint and he'll sit? Fuck that noise.

Its bullshit

-King-
09-07-2012, 03:26 PM
They were part of one of the worst league scandals in quite some time, but they'll play.
Tamba gets caught with a joint and he'll sit? Fuck that noise.

There was no proof that they did anything.
Posted via Mobile Device

Micjones
09-07-2012, 03:30 PM
There was no proof that they did anything.
Posted via Mobile Device

I know. Still!
:banghead:

vailpass
09-07-2012, 03:31 PM
There was no proof that they did anything.
Posted via Mobile Device

Agreed. At least not anything that every single team does and has done for years. I understand and agree with the reasons Goodell needs to limit the league's exposure but even his powers don't allow him to act with impunity.

durtyrute
09-07-2012, 03:32 PM
You falsely accuse someone of something and after they are cleared of all charges, you face no repercussions. Man, you gotta love it!

vailpass
09-07-2012, 03:33 PM
You falsely accuse someone of something and after they are cleared of all charges, you face no repercussions. Man, you gotta love it!

If they signed a contract agreeing to it then there is no issue.

Brock
09-07-2012, 03:39 PM
Sorry, Big Red.

durtyrute
09-07-2012, 03:40 PM
If they signed a contract agreeing to it then there is no issue.

Agreeing to what?

vailpass
09-07-2012, 03:44 PM
Agreeing to what?

The CBA, the discipline process, and the powers of the Commissioner enumerated therein.

RedNeckRaider
09-07-2012, 03:54 PM
I heard several people on sports talk trashing Vilma saying he should back off and take his medicine. Good for him and the rest of the players. King Roger needed to be knocked down a notch or two. I am all for holding players to a higher standard, but this commissioner was suffering from a God complex~

Bump
09-07-2012, 04:36 PM
They were part of one of the worst league scandals in quite some time, but they'll play.
Tamba gets caught with a joint and he'll sit? **** that noise.

when you think of it that way..............ya, fuck that shit.

whoman69
09-07-2012, 04:43 PM
The ruling does not permanently void their suspensions. They may have only gotten a reprieve.

ChiefsNow
09-07-2012, 04:48 PM
Kill the head and the body will die.

Tuckdaddy
09-07-2012, 04:57 PM
Can't say I like this. Grown men are expected to know the difference between right and wrong, not hide behind the "Our boss told us to do it" They did wrong and everyone knows they did wrong. Coaches admitted it and the league can prove it. None of them went to their own defense at all.

These are adults and think for themselves. Letting them play just gives players an excuse to get out of shit they do to violate rules. "My coach said to take steroids." "Ok, it's not your fault, we will punish him". Where does itn stop if they are not held accoutable for their own actions?

This is a bad decision.

vailpass
09-07-2012, 05:01 PM
Can't say I like this. Grown men are expected to know the difference between right and wrong, not hide behind the "Our boss told us to do it" They did wrong and everyone knows they did wrong. Coaches admitted it and the league can prove it. None of them went to their own defense at all.

These are adults and think for themselves. Letting them play just gives players an excuse to get out of shit they do to violate rules. "My coach said to take steroids." "Ok, it's not your fault, we will punish him". Where does itn stop if they are not held accoutable for their own actions?

This is a bad decision.

If the league could prove it they would do so.

I don't think they did anything wrong. I wouldn't have a problem with it if the players got a pool of money together and paid out to whoever took a QB or RB or whoever out of a game.
So what? It's a blood sport. This isn't college ball.

O.city
09-07-2012, 05:12 PM
If a Steeler goes low into Manning and shreds a knee, I'd think that tune would change.

Tuckdaddy
09-07-2012, 05:33 PM
If a Steeler goes low into Manning and shreds a knee, I'd think that tune would change.

I was thinking the same thing. Bloodsport? if you intentionally go after a player in a certain spot to put him out of the game then it's wrong. No question. Saints are guilty as hell and those guys are liars saying that had nothing to do with it.


Silence and Integrity are not the same thing. Vilma and Scotty F never learned that just like the admin at Penn Sate never learned it either.

DaneMcCloud
09-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Can't say I like this. Grown men are expected to know the difference between right and wrong, not hide behind the "Our boss told us to do it" They did wrong and everyone knows they did wrong. Coaches admitted it and the league can prove it. None of them went to their own defense at all.

These are adults and think for themselves. Letting them play just gives players an excuse to get out of shit they do to violate rules. "My coach said to take steroids." "Ok, it's not your fault, we will punish him". Where does itn stop if they are not held accoutable for their own actions?

This is a bad decision.

I don't think you understand the ruling. Goodell overstepped his bounds and it's likely that these players will be suspended again, just without the pretense of "Premeditation" and salary cap implications.

vailpass
09-07-2012, 05:46 PM
If a Steeler goes low into Manning and shreds a knee, I'd think that tune would change.

If you're talking to me, not at all. This type of motivation has gone on in every locker room in the NFL for years. It's just another means to hype them up. Doesn't make them dirty, just another way to get the pre-game pump going.
The pussificaition of the NFL is not an attractive thing to me.

vailpass
09-07-2012, 05:47 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Bloodsport? if you intentionally go after a player in a certain spot to put him out of the game then it's wrong. No question. Saints are guilty as hell and those guys are liars saying that had nothing to do with it.


Silence and Integrity are not the same thing. Vilma and Scotty F never learned that just like the admin at Penn Sate never learned it either.

As long as it is a clean hit there is nothing wrong with taking someone out. This is football.
How do you know the Saints are guilty as hell? Do you have evidence the rest of us, including the arbitration panel, haven't seen?

Dirty Bird
09-07-2012, 05:50 PM
Still missing Sean Payton and Vitt for 6 games. They're not going anywhere.

kstater
09-07-2012, 05:56 PM
NFLPA: The NFL doesn't care about player safety.

NFLPA: Don't suspend players for intentionally trying to hurt other players.

Tuckdaddy
09-07-2012, 06:11 PM
I don't think you understand the ruling. Goodell overstepped his bounds and it's likely that these players will be suspended again, just without the pretense of "Premeditation" and salary cap implications.

I understand the ruling but and maybe he really didn't have enough evidence actually on those players to punish them that harshly. What gets me is that it's a proven fact through evidence and coaches admissions that they had a bounty program for more that one year but players new nothing and had nothing to do with it. That is pretty stupid for anyone to believe.

They all new it and particiapted at some level and now are getting a pass for it. Vilma and Fujita just to name two are liars.

Brock
09-07-2012, 06:12 PM
Still missing Sean Payton and Vitt for 6 games. They're not going anywhere.

You better hope so. They've pretty much owned you guys the past several years.

Tuckdaddy
09-07-2012, 06:16 PM
As long as it is a clean hit there is nothing wrong with taking someone out. This is football.
How do you know the Saints are guilty as hell? Do you have evidence the rest of us, including the arbitration panel, haven't seen?

They were paying players to take out other players. Clean or not didn't matter. If they hit the guy and he had to not continue the game, then they were rewarded. THE COACHES SAID SO and no player went to thier own defense with the commish or said otherwise. Do I need any more evidence? Vilma went to bat for himself when they suspended him becasue he was accused of forking over money to the program.

The program was there and that's not a myth. I don't see Peyton going to court, why is that?

vailpass
09-07-2012, 06:23 PM
They were paying players to take out other players. Clean or not didn't matter. If they hit the guy and he had to not continue the game, then they were rewarded. THE COACHES SAID SO and no player went to thier own defense with the commish or said otherwise. Do I need any more evidence? Vilma went to bat for himself when they suspended him becasue he was accused of forking over money to the program.

The program was there and that's not a myth. I don't see Peyton going to court, why is that?

One guy says one thing and another guy says different. That's all the evidence you need?

Again, as long as they aren't advocating illegal hits there is zero wrong with a bounty system. It's just another way of motivating team mates to play hard.
I'm sure soccer doesn't have any bounty programs, that might be the gentler experience some are seeking.

Tuckdaddy
09-07-2012, 08:48 PM
One guy says one thing and another guy says different. That's all the evidence you need?

Again, as long as they aren't advocating illegal hits there is zero wrong with a bounty system. It's just another way of motivating team mates to play hard.
I'm sure soccer doesn't have any bounty programs, that might be the gentler experience some are seeking.

So the video of Williams talking before the SF game was what? He advocated them to purposely hit an ACL and ankle of Crabtree and Davis. He was advocating trying to hit a player with targeting a certain body part. Not to mention him telling them hit Gores head sideways. Not to knock him sideways but his head. This was more than just a pump up the players speech, it stated specific players and body parts.

Nothing wrong with any of this? Really? You think they are not guilty but they are.

Brock
09-07-2012, 08:55 PM
So the video of Williams talking before the SF game was what? He advocated them to purposely hit an ACL and ankle of Crabtree and Davis. He was advocating trying to hit a player with targeting a certain body part. Not to mention him telling them hit Gores head sideways. Not to knock him sideways but his head. This was more than just a pump up the players speech, it stated specific players and body parts.

Nothing wrong with any of this? Really? You think they are not guilty but they are.

How does the coach being recorded saying something serve as evidence against the players? I'm certain the whole organization is guilty, but that's not really proof of anything.

-King-
09-07-2012, 08:57 PM
NFLPA: The NFL doesn't care about player safety.

NFLPA: Don't suspend players for intentionally trying to hurt other players.

Do you have any proof that they tried doing that? Any videos of cheap shots? Anything?
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
09-07-2012, 08:59 PM
So the video of Williams talking before the SF game was what? He advocated them to purposely hit an ACL and ankle of Crabtree and Davis. He was advocating trying to hit a player with targeting a certain body part. Not to mention him telling them hit Gores head sideways. Not to knock him sideways but his head. This was more than just a pump up the players speech, it stated specific players and body parts.

Nothing wrong with any of this? Really? You think they are not guilty but they are.

What does any of this have to do with the players?
Posted via Mobile Device

L.A. Chieffan
09-07-2012, 09:00 PM
Goodell thinks hes GODell....amirite?

-King-
09-07-2012, 09:17 PM
League’s internal memo suggests that suspensions will be re-issued

Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2012, 9:22 PM EDT

Many are painting the decision to wipe out the bounty suspensions imposed against Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, Saints defensive end Will Smith, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove as a slam-dunk win for the players.

While it was a victory on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.

Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).

It’s likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred — and that there should be significant punishment for it.

“Nothing in today’s decision contradicts any of the facts found in the investigation into this matter, or absolves any player of responsibility for conduct detrimental,” Pash writes. “Nor does the decision in any way suggest what discipline would be appropriate for conduct that lies within the authority of the Commissioner. Per the panel’s direction, the Commissioner will promptly reconsider the matter and make a determination of the appropriate discipline consistent with the standards set forth in today’s decision. All clubs will be advised when that decision is made.”

It would be a surprise if the outcome is anything other than what it already was: a full season for Vilma, four games for Smith, three games for Fujita, and eight games for Hargrove.
Posted via Mobile Device

notorious
09-07-2012, 09:18 PM
Having a repeal go back to the guy that dealt punishment is fucking retarded anyway.


Why did the players union agree to that garbage?

MahiMike
09-07-2012, 09:38 PM
Awesome. My saints pick to be 1st team to host their own SB looking better.

aturnis
09-07-2012, 11:00 PM
League’s internal memo suggests that suspensions will be re-issued

Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2012, 9:22 PM EDT

Many are painting the decision to wipe out the bounty suspensions imposed against Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, Saints defensive end Will Smith, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove as a slam-dunk win for the players.

While it was a victory on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.

Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).

It’s likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred — and that there should be significant punishment for it.

“Nothing in today’s decision contradicts any of the facts found in the investigation into this matter, or absolves any player of responsibility for conduct detrimental,” Pash writes. “Nor does the decision in any way suggest what discipline would be appropriate for conduct that lies within the authority of the Commissioner. Per the panel’s direction, the Commissioner will promptly reconsider the matter and make a determination of the appropriate discipline consistent with the standards set forth in today’s decision. All clubs will be advised when that decision is made.”

It would be a surprise if the outcome is anything other than what it already was: a full season for Vilma, four games for Smith, three games for Fujita, and eight games for Hargrove.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fantastic. These include layers deserve what they get and Goodell is right in his decision to suspend them. Maybe change the length of some of the suspensions (Vilma), but that's it.

BryanBusby
09-08-2012, 01:09 AM
Do you have any proof that they tried doing that? Any videos of cheap shots? Anything?
Posted via Mobile Device

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sq7gVv7I4MA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fhgrqETk_JQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Yeah, Fujita "slipped" his shoulder right into his knee. (I know the quality on this one sucks, but it doesn't have gay music at least!)

DaneMcCloud
09-08-2012, 01:11 AM
League’s internal memo suggests that suspensions will be re-issued

.

I don't think you understand the ruling. Goodell overstepped his bounds and it's likely that these players will be suspended again, just without the pretense of "Premeditation" and salary cap implications.