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pr_capone
09-09-2012, 09:33 PM
I only watched the Chiefs game and now the Steelers game but the replacements looked a-ok. My only niggle is that they took a bit long at times but that aside I've seen nothing to really complain about.

If they continue being completely unnoticeable, I don't see any reason for the NFL to cave to the union. In fact, the longer this drags on, the more experience the replacements get, the better the position for the NFL in the battle against the union.

Bacon Cheeseburger
09-09-2012, 09:35 PM
Who was the moron who kept yapping about how the replacement refs were going to affect the outcome of games?

Scorp
09-09-2012, 09:35 PM
Who was the moron who kept yapping about how the replacement refs were going to affect the outcome of games?

Matt Casshole

KCrockaholic
09-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Unbelievable.

Brock
09-09-2012, 09:37 PM
They did fine.

BigMeatballDave
09-09-2012, 09:37 PM
Temporary refs

Deberg_1990
09-09-2012, 09:40 PM
I saw in the Cards/Seahawks game they gave the Seahawks an extra timeout when they had none left.

KCrockaholic
09-09-2012, 09:43 PM
I'm not a ref scout, but these guys don't even know some of the rules. Plus one of them lied to our faces today in front of a national audience.

Bacon Cheeseburger
09-09-2012, 09:43 PM
I saw in the Cards/Seahawks game they gave the Seahawks an extra timeout when they had none left.
Did it affect the outcome of the game?

KCrockaholic
09-09-2012, 09:44 PM
Did it affect the outcome of the game?

If Seattle had scored from the 3 yard line, then yes it very well could have. But instead they had 3 chances and failed. NFL got lucky.

Bump
09-09-2012, 10:24 PM
that no call when Julio Jones did that WR screen thing, that no call was BRUTAL. That was a blatant penalty on the offense and they got a TD instead. Not that it would have affected the outcome, cause we got our ass kicked but just saying...

clyde05
09-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Think they have been doing fine, he'll even the normal refs screw up but since these are replacement refs everybody is watching every little thing they do but nothing has changed outcome of game yet. They will prob only get better, no reason for NFL to cave to normal refs.

Johnny Vegas
09-09-2012, 10:44 PM
Seems like coaches are taking advantage of them and way more animated to sway their decision.

ghak99
09-09-2012, 11:28 PM
The timeout in the Seachicken game could have been a huge mistake.

The view of the coaching staff on the sidelines with their WTF now expressions while the refs huddle up and play with crayons trying to decide calls is hilarious. It's starting to look like a few coaches are taking advantage of their lack of knowledge and inability to handle the speed of the NFL.

I'm sure they're doing their best and they are getting better, but damn I hope they get a deal done soon. Everyone involved with the NFL deserves top shelf officiating.

A Salt Weapon
09-09-2012, 11:32 PM
I'm happy with the replacement refs for now. It will take a lot of bad calls for them to even come close to the level of incompetence exhibited by the regular refs.
I would love to see them never come back, kind of a big fuck-you for not being held accountable previously. And I think strikes are bull-shit, any worker that fails to show-up and work should be fired on the spot.
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chasedude
09-09-2012, 11:59 PM
Shannon Eastin, the first woman ref is having her hat and whistle added to Canton.

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2012/08/09/Line-judge-Shannon-Eastin-_201208092149330_660_320.JPG

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/shannon-eastin-makes-history-as-first-female-to-officiate-regular-season-game-090912

manchambo
09-10-2012, 12:01 AM
I was at the broncos game so I couldn't tell what happened when they allowed the steelers to challenge a catch after Denver had run another play. But that seemed a bit strange.

petegz28
09-10-2012, 12:02 AM
I was at the broncos game so I couldn't tell what happened when they allowed the steelers to challenge a catch after Denver had run another play. But that seemed a bit strange.

Challenge flag was thrown right before the snap

tk13
09-10-2012, 12:03 AM
I thought they did okay really for the most part. They didn't try to affect the outcome too much and let guys play.

The end of the game gaffe for the Seahawks looks like the only really bad screw up. And if the Seahawks had won the game it would've been a bigger story, no doubt.

DaneMcCloud
09-10-2012, 12:58 AM
Who cares. They may have missed shit the normal crews get and nailed shit the normal crews miss.

It all evens out.

Gravedigger
09-10-2012, 03:08 AM
When you give the Seattle Seahawks an extra timeout at the end of the game deep in Arizonas territory, when you miss a blatant low chop block on our secondary that leads to a TD play for Julio Jones, and when you can't see that Peyton Manning is no huddling to get a huge lineman caught before he gets off the field then you're not doing you job. Excuses aside, I'd rather the NFL just stop Pioliing the Refs and get the crews that have done it before. If you want see which crews have done really well and have them come in every now and then thats fine because some replacement refs have done well, but this shit is just pathetic now.

clyde05
09-10-2012, 03:58 AM
Let you know next week if they don't call The Bills LT for holding against Tamba, maybe he will finally get that call now

InChiefsHell
09-10-2012, 05:28 AM
that no call when Julio Jones did that WR screen thing, that no call was BRUTAL. That was a blatant penalty on the offense and they got a TD instead. Not that it would have affected the outcome, cause we got our ass kicked but just saying...

There was another call as well that was total BS, but I can't remember it now. I just remember at the end of the game that there was 2 calls that were pretty critical and were bullshit.

Tuckdaddy
09-10-2012, 05:44 AM
They gave Tamme a TD last night when he lost the ball in the end zone when he hit the ground. Remember the Chicago with Megaton. When that happened. He even had a knee down and then got rid of the ball because he thought the play was over. Tamme like threw the ball but they don't know the rules and it cost Pitt the game.

King_Chief_Fan
09-10-2012, 05:49 AM
The timeout in the Seachicken game could have been a huge mistake.

The view of the coaching staff on the sidelines with their WTF now expressions while the refs huddle up and play with crayons trying to decide calls is hilarious. It's starting to look like a few coaches are taking advantage of their lack of knowledge and inability to handle the speed of the NFL.

I'm sure they're doing their best and they are getting better, but damn I hope they get a deal done soon. Everyone involved with the NFL deserves top shelf officiating.

and the ref responsible manned up and noted on ESPN this morning that he made an error. Ever hear a regular ref do that?

acesn8s
09-10-2012, 05:58 AM
Yep, Ed Hochuli has never fucked up a call. The old refs have never had a bad call against the Chiefs either. And they have never ever huddled up to decide what the correct call should be. REPLACE THE REPLACEMENTS BECAUSE ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE! For God's sake don't anybody try to go back and look up a thread that might hint at a bad call versus the Chiefs because it doesn't exist. Any attempt to show such a thread is voodoo magic.

notorious
09-10-2012, 06:27 AM
Keep the new guys.

Von Dumbass
09-10-2012, 06:49 AM
Replacement refs seemed affected by crowd -- calling 26 more penalties against the road teams (104) than the home teams (78) thus far.
https://twitter.com/RickGosselinDMN/status/245138505800507392

I thought the replacements did a good job as well. They missed some calls, but so do the regular refs.

JD10367
09-10-2012, 06:50 AM
The only difference between the replacements and the old refs is that the new guys need more time to get used to the job. Reffing ain't playing; you don't have different levels of physical abilities that are obvious. It's not like, "Oh, this replacement ref is obviously a bench guy, he can't see as good as Hochuli and he's dumber too." For the most part, they got plays right. In some cases, they made mistakes that could've impacted the game. (For example, against the Pats they could've called a couple of PI calls that changed the scoring.) But that happens week in and week out. The increased use of replay marginalizes the refs more than in the past anyway, so they don't need perfect refs out there, just competent ones who can eyeball fouls midplay (holding, PI, facemask, etc.,.). Every week that goes by without major reffing problems is another nail in the old refs' coffins. I bet the NFL's phone rings this week, and the refs' association starts whining like a dumped b/f who wants their chick back. "Hey, um... I'm really sorry... can we talk? I'd like another chance, baby..."

acesn8s
09-10-2012, 06:50 AM
https://twitter.com/RickGosselinDMN/status/245138505800507392

I thought the replacements did a good job as well. They missed some calls, but so do the regular refs.Blasphemy! Jerome Boger has never missed a call.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 07:13 AM
Challenge flag was thrown right before the snap

No it wasn't. further we got over the goalline on the 1st and goal from the one.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 07:15 AM
Who cares. They may have missed shit the normal crews get and nailed shit the normal crews miss.

It all evens out.

Yep...its the same for everybody.

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 07:28 AM
No it wasn't. further we got over the goalline on the 1st and goal from the one.

Yes, it was. There was video that clearly showed this.

Why are you crying? You won. STFU

notorious
09-10-2012, 07:30 AM
Tomlin was a dumbass and threw it a millisecond before the snap.

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 07:31 AM
They gave Tamme a TD last night when he lost the ball in the end zone when he hit the ground. Remember the Chicago with Megaton. When that happened. He even had a knee down and then got rid of the ball because he thought the play was over. Tamme like threw the ball but they don't know the rules and it cost Pitt the game.

I noticed this too. Everyone seemed to ignore it.

notorious
09-10-2012, 07:39 AM
I noticed this too. Everyone seemed to ignore it.

They let it go like they should of with Megatron.

I hope the NFL pulled their head out fo their ass when it comes to that stupid rule.

A Salt Weapon
09-10-2012, 07:52 AM
and the ref responsible manned up and noted on ESPN this morning that he made an error. Ever hear a regular ref do that?
Spot on! That ref showed integrity, made a mistake and manned up to it. The old refs would've slunk away after the game and never mentioned it. That alone is enough to keep the replacements as far as I'm concerned.
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sedated
09-10-2012, 07:53 AM
I don’t think the officiating has been good at all. The reason nobody notices the refs is because they aren’t calling anything except obvious stuff. WRs are getting mauled. Illegal blocks are being missed.

And this one to the list: the punt return TD in the Steelers/Broncos game only happened because of an obvious block in the back that wasn’t called.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 07:53 AM
Yes, it was. There was video that clearly showed this.

Why are you crying? You won. STFU

That ball was hiked before that fucking flag was seen. Those refs were bad. That was the 7th gaff of the night.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 07:55 AM
I noticed this too. Everyone seemed to ignore it.

No. He extended the ball over the goalline with control. Once that happened it was a touchdown. Its very different from the Johnson catch you are refering to.

memyselfI
09-10-2012, 07:57 AM
The scab guys at Arrowhead didn't call holding until someone reminded them that it's in the penalty book.

HemiEd
09-10-2012, 08:05 AM
No it wasn't. further we got over the goalline on the 1st and goal from the one.

yes it was

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 08:06 AM
That ball was hiked before that fucking flag was seen. Those refs were bad. That was the 7th gaff of the night.

You're wrong.

Again, stop crying. You won.

HemiEd
09-10-2012, 08:07 AM
I don’t think the officiating has been good at all. The reason nobody notices the refs is because they aren’t calling anything except obvious stuff. WRs are getting mauled. Illegal blocks are being missed.

And this one to the list: the punt return TD in the Steelers/Broncos game only happened because of an obvious block in the back that wasn’t called.

I agree, I thought the refs sucked in a couple games.

scho63
09-10-2012, 08:09 AM
what I noticed in about 90% of the games is that the penalties were way down, the refs are letting them play a little more.

They did miss a HUGE block in the back call in the GB-SF game on the punt return for TD

notorious
09-10-2012, 08:11 AM
I said this in another thread:

The refs are going to let them play. The NFL wants as little attention towards the refs as possible.

A blown non-call is a lot less noticable than a blown call.

Amnorix
09-10-2012, 08:12 AM
Let you know next week if they don't call The Bills LT for holding against Tamba, maybe he will finally get that call now


No calls on holds is one very noticeable difference with the replacement refs, according to what I've read.

But yeah, other than the Seattle timeout thing, they by and large did a pretty credible job. Let me put it this way -- they didn't make any more mistakes than a normal NFL crew, from what I could tell.

Thank God for instant replay however. In the Pats/Titans game they had some bad calls that got reversed on instant replay and rightly so. They had a Pats CB as intercepting a ball that he sure as hell SHOULD have intercepted, but in fact he never held it long enough to control it before he dropped it. They also scrweed up the play where the Titans' WR and QB got hurt, ruling a clear non-catch a fumble.

It was a bit of a bang-bang play, but that play should've been blown dead immediately and then Locker wouldn't've been hurt on the ensuing effort to tackle the Pats defensive player carrying the ball.

Amnorix
09-10-2012, 08:12 AM
what I noticed in about 90% of the games is that the penalties were way down, the refs are letting them play a little more.

They did miss a HUGE block in the back call in the GB-SF game on the punt return for TD


Peter King said in MMQB today that the average number of calls per game was 13.something, which is 1 per game MORE than last year's opening week average of 12.something.

:shrug:

notorious
09-10-2012, 08:14 AM
Peter King said in MMQB today that the average number of calls per game was 13.something, which is 1 per game MORE than last year's opening week average of 12.something.

:shrug:

That's a good thing. If they are making more calls yet it's not as noticable, they are doing a decent job.

Amnorix
09-10-2012, 08:18 AM
That ball was hiked before that fucking flag was seen. Those refs were bad. That was the 7th gaff of the night.


Is there a reason why you use teh word "seen" and not "thrown"?

Because, you know, the rule probably refers to thrown.

And you won, so jeez, relax.

notorious
09-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Is there a reason why you use teh word "seen" and not "thrown"?

Because, you know, the rule probably refers to thrown.

And you won, so jeez, relax.

The announcers stated that the ref needs to "see" the flag.



They are wrong often, so take it for what it's worth.

htismaqe
09-10-2012, 08:25 AM
I wonder if anybody that thinks the refs in the Chiefs game were "good" saw that we almost lost Stanford Routt to a knee injury on an illegal pick play...

Mojo Jojo
09-10-2012, 08:30 AM
The crew at the Green Bay game was a disaster...the NFL was embarrassed because that was the A game. Hope they are working on a deal today.

Frosty
09-10-2012, 08:40 AM
The crew at the Green Bay game was a disaster...the NFL was embarrassed because that was the A game. Hope they are working on a deal today.

Yeah, that was bad. They were calling EVERYTHING on GB and missing a lot of stuff on SF, including some very obvious false starts.

Phobia
09-10-2012, 08:47 AM
I wonder if anybody that thinks the refs in the Chiefs game were "good" saw that we almost lost Stanford Routt to a knee injury on an illegal pick play...

I think pick plays are a regular part of any team's playbook simply because refs don't really see it very often. I don't have a major problem with them missing it. The regular refs miss it a whole lot more often than they call it.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 08:48 AM
I don't think that they've been great, but there weren't any issues bad enough that I think they altered the outcome of the games much this week.

Like anyone, I hope they get things worked out fairly soon, but I'm willing to put up with it for a bit in hopes of getting some positive long-term changes made.

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 08:48 AM
Is there a reason why you use teh word "seen" and not "thrown"?

Because, you know, the rule probably refers to thrown.

And you won, so jeez, relax.

Because the ref has to see the flag.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 08:49 AM
Because the ref has to see the flag.

My guess is that the refs assumed that they just didn't see it in time because they aren't as good at keeping an eye out for that stuff. I don't really have an issue with it - I think it's kind of cheap that teams can try to keep a challenge from being made by hurrying up to snap the ball anyway.

htismaqe
09-10-2012, 08:51 AM
I think pick plays are a regular part of any team's playbook simply because refs don't really see it very often. I don't have a major problem with them missing it. The regular refs miss it a whole lot more often than they call it.

When a guy looks like a Chinese Olympic platform diver because the WR went at his legs, they call it....

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 08:52 AM
Now we need a challenge to see if the challenge flag comes out in time.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:32 AM
Who was the moron who kept yapping about how the replacement refs were going to affect the outcome of games?
King was one of them

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:34 AM
They did ok ... they pretty much let them play.

missed a few here and there

regular officials miss stuff every game too

Garcia Bronco
09-10-2012, 09:36 AM
My guess is that the refs assumed that they just didn't see it in time because they aren't as good at keeping an eye out for that stuff. I don't really have an issue with it - I think it's kind of cheap that teams can try to keep a challenge from being made by hurrying up to snap the ball anyway.

Ultimately it helped us out based on how things worked out, but it was 1 of 6 huge gaffs in favor of the Steelers. I felt like the Bronocs were playing two teams and they beat them both.

I don't know if it's cheap but it clearly wasn't a fumble and it gave the Steelers a rest, which was my biggest issue.

jjjayb
09-10-2012, 09:39 AM
And last year, after EVERY game, EVERY message board for EVERY NFL team had people complaing about refs. What's different this year? Nothing. Refs will always mess up, whether they are replacement refs or regular refs. The NFL won't bend on this and I don't blame them.

notorious
09-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Ultimately it helped us out based on how things worked out, but it was 1 of 6 huge gaffs in favor of the Steelers. I felt like the Bronocs were playing two teams and they beat them both.

I don't know if it's cheap but it clearly wasn't a fumble and it gave the Steelers a rest, which was my biggest issue.

Pittsburgh always get the breaks.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
And last year, after EVERY game, EVERY message board for EVERY NFL team had people complaing about refs. What's different this year? Nothing. Refs will always mess up, whether they are replacement refs or regular refs. The NFL won't bend on this and I don't blame them.yep


by the middle of this season we won't be able to tell the difference between these refs and the previous group.

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
Ultimately it helped us out based on how things worked out, but it was 1 of 6 huge gaffs in favor of the Steelers. I felt like the Bronocs were playing two teams and they beat them both.

I don't know if it's cheap but it clearly wasn't a fumble and it gave the Steelers a rest, which was my biggest issue.

:deevee:

notorious
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
yep


by the middle of this season we won't be able to tell the difference between these refs and the previous group.

The only difference I can see now is when they get on the mic to announce the penalty.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:45 AM
The only difference I can see now is when they get on the mic to announce the penalty.
and they are much slower at the process


but that will improve with time

manchambo
09-10-2012, 10:29 AM
They gave Tamme a TD last night when he lost the ball in the end zone when he hit the ground. Remember the Chicago with Megaton. When that happened. He even had a knee down and then got rid of the ball because he thought the play was over. Tamme like threw the ball but they don't know the rules and it cost Pitt the game.

No you just don't understand the rules. Tamme caught the ball on the field and went into the end zone so it was a TE the instant he crossed the goal line. He didn't need to establish possession in the endzone.

Rausch
09-10-2012, 10:36 AM
To me the biggest difference was I don't remember a lot of bad calls - instead there were a lot of no calls.

I think the NFL told them "when in doubt don't call it."

By no means did the refs cost us the game or give an unfair influence one way or the other but as the season goes on I do believe there will be games and teams that really get hosed.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 10:39 AM
No you just don't understand the rules. Tamme caught the ball on the field and went into the end zone so it was a TE the instant he crossed the goal line. He didn't need to establish possession in the endzone.
yep

1. catch in the ball in the endzone

2. catch before the endzone and step over the line


rules are completely different

KChiefer
09-10-2012, 11:45 AM
Yeah, that was bad. They were calling EVERYTHING on GB and missing a lot of stuff on SF, including some very obvious false starts.

For got about that. Yeah, GB stopped playing thinking the refs HAD to call that. The refs didn't and GB got burnt!

DaFace
09-10-2012, 11:50 AM
No you just don't understand the rules. Tamme caught the ball on the field and went into the end zone so it was a TE the instant he crossed the goal line. He didn't need to establish possession in the endzone.

To clarify, that's only true if he'd already established possession elsewhere on the field. In other words, if it was a diving catch where he caught it in midair at the 1 yard line and dropped it when he hit the ground in the end zone, that's still not a TD - you have to control it through hitting the ground.

The difference is that Tamme has already established control on the 1 yard line. In essence, it was a catch and a fumble, but the fumble doesn't matter since he was already in the end zone.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 11:54 AM
yep

1. catch in the ball in the endzone

2. catch before the endzone and step over the line


rules are completely different

Eh, not really. People just get confused about how they're applied.

KChiefer
09-10-2012, 11:55 AM
http://www.thenation.com/blog/169593/why-are-nfl-refs-locked-out-its-all-game

Kluwe's AWESOME!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000058578/article/vikings-chris-kluwe-not-high-on-replacement-refs


Vikings' Chris Kluwe not high on replacement refs

A cursory search of the Internet is bound to turn up Chris Kluwe's opinion on something. Wednesday gave us the Minnesota Vikings punter's take on replacement officials.

"The replacement refs are bad. There's no way around it. None!" Kluwe wrote to Deadspin editor Tommy Craggs. "Whether it's the pressure of live television on the sport's largest stage, or just an inability to do the job, these guys are making football increasingly painful to watch as a player, and I'm certain it's just as frustrating for the fans. It's like watching a Lamborghini roll around on eight-inch spare tires. Not good."

More Kluwe goodness:

» "It seems as if, after every call, all 35 refs come sprinting in to discuss the merits of Kafka's '(The) Metamorphosis' as it relates to the economy of Bangladesh, and just when you think they've finally figured it out, they reconvene for Round 2. Then Round 3."

» "I am slightly curious how the TV networks are going to handle eight-hour games. I bet we get cut for 'Heidi.'"

("Heidi," of course, is the TV movie NBC infamously aired over the end of a rollicking Jets-Raiders clash in 1968. This would never happen today.)

» "I haven't personally seen it, but I've heard of coaches berating the replacement refs in other games and getting penalty flags picked up. I'm sure that won't be a problem in a real game, though. I can't picture Belichick or Harbaugh losing his (mind) at a ref if he thought it would give his team a tactical advantage. Totally out of character."

» "They missed a call so badly that the replay official called down from the booth and made them review the play so they could assess a penalty. That's not really allowed in the rulebook, but I guess we're just winging it, at this point."

» "We walked out for a punt, and my long snapper didn't feel like going over to the other hash. What did he do? He told the ref, "No, you have the ball in the wrong place. Move it over here." And what did the ref do? HE MOVED THE BALL. No! Bad ref!"

Replacement officials will debut in games that count when the Dallas Cowboys meet the New York Giants on Wednesday night. No talks are scheduled betweeen the NFL and locked-out officials at this time. Buckle up.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 11:55 AM
To clarify, that's only true if he'd already established possession elsewhere on the field. In other words, if it was a diving catch where he caught it in midair at the 1 yard line and dropped it when he hit the ground in the end zone, that's still not a TD - you have to control it through hitting the ground.

The difference is that Tamme has already established control on the 1 yard line. In essence, it was a catch and a fumble, but the fumble doesn't matter since he was already in the end zone.
yes, but the rules about what is possession change depending on where the ball is caught.

in the regular field of play, possession is simply that ... show that you have a firm hold on the ball and look to make a football move.

in the endzone, you have to show normal possession PLUS you have to maintain possession through hitting the ground.

When it comes to the rules, catching ball before the endzone is much easier than IN the endzone.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 11:56 AM
Eh, not really. People just get confused about how they're applied.
disagree

L.A. Chieffan
09-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Once Vegas has them in their pocket it will be business as usual...

DaFace
09-10-2012, 11:59 AM
yes, but the rules about what is possession change depending on where the ball is caught.

in the regular field of play, possession is simply that ... show that you have a firm hold on the ball and look to make a football move.

in the endzone, you have to show normal possession PLUS you have to maintain possession through hitting the ground.

When it comes to the rules, catching ball before the endzone is much easier than IN the endzone.

That's not true. You have to control the ball when hitting the ground in the regular field too.

N.F.L. Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1: Going to the ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 12:03 PM
That's not true. You have to control the ball when hitting the ground in the regular field too.
no, you don't.

If you show possession and make a football move first then 'the ground can not cause a fumble'

In the endzone, making a football move etc doesn't matter nearly as much. If you go to the ground and the ball pops loose then the NBA-like continuation effect kicks in and they can call it an incompletion.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 12:04 PM
no, you don't.

If you show possession and make a football move first then 'the ground can not cause a fumble'

In the endzone, making a football move etc doesn't matter nearly as much. If you go to the ground and the ball pops loose then the NBA-like continuation effect kicks in and they can call it an incompletion.

I promise you're wrong, but don't know how else to explain it other than telling you to go dig up a bunch of old episodes of Official Review on NFL.com.

You have to establish possession no matter where you are. If you're going to the ground during a catch (no matter where you are) and haven't already established possession, you have to control the ball or it's incomplete. The ground can't cause a fumble, but it can cause an incomplete pass.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 12:07 PM
I promise you're wrong, but don't know how else to explain it other than telling you to go dig up a bunch of old episodes of Official Review on NFL.com.
agree to disagree

but the key is 'make a football move'

In the regular field of play, it applies.

In the endzone, it rarely applies.

scho63
09-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Peter King said in MMQB today that the average number of calls per game was 13.something, which is 1 per game MORE than last year's opening week average of 12.something.

:shrug:

:hmmm:

I must have missed many of the calls because the few games I was watching didn't have many penalties. Seemed like they all came in during 4th quarter garbage time and not much else.

Frosty
09-10-2012, 12:22 PM
:hmmm:

I must have missed many of the calls because the few games I was watching didn't have many penalties. Seemed like they all came in during 4th quarter garbage time and not much else.

I think the Seattle/Arizona game might have raised the average. I think each team had in the neighborhood of 13 penalties each. :doh!:

Valiant
09-10-2012, 12:35 PM
I promise you're wrong, but don't know how else to explain it other than telling you to go dig up a bunch of old episodes of Official Review on NFL.com.

You have to establish possession no matter where you are. If you're going to the ground during a catch (no matter where you are) and haven't already established possession, you have to control the ball or it's incomplete. The ground can't cause a fumble, but it can cause an incomplete pass.

Ground can cause a fumble if you are/were not touched while running with it. Catching can only cause incompletion.

Valiant
09-10-2012, 12:43 PM
I thought they did a gret job for the 5 games I watched. No worse then the regular refs. It was funny listening to the announcers, most were fair and said they did a good job. One was critical after each call, even when they got the call right. Like taking off your helmet, the only real blunder was the timeout in seatlle.

Omaha
09-10-2012, 12:46 PM
I thought there were some pretty bad non-calls on Sunday:

1. On the play where Cassel fumbled, it looked like the DE had a huge head start. He looked to be across the line before anyone on KC moved.

2. On one of the INTs, the KC receiver was being molested & the ball was tipped into the air.

Yeah, I might be a bit biased, but I thought those were pretty clear.

acesn8s
09-10-2012, 02:37 PM
I don’t think the officiating has been good at all. The reason nobody notices the refs is because they aren’t calling anything except obvious stuff. WRs are getting mauled. Illegal blocks are being missed.

And this one to the list: the punt return TD in the Steelers/Broncos game only happened because of an obvious block in the back that wasn’t called.Wholly HELL! :eek: The old refs NEVER missed a call like that before.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EXDSC9WuFOg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

DaFace
09-10-2012, 03:02 PM
Wholly HELL! :eek: The old refs NEVER missed a call like that before.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EXDSC9WuFOg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

Really, it's a matter of the frequency of issues rather than the severity. I'm definitely on the "stay the course for the long-term benefit" bandwagon of the refs dispute, but I can acknowledge that there have been a lot MORE iffy calls this week than with the normal refs.

Rain Man
09-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Someone brought up the point in an earlier thread that the replacement refs are probably under orders to go easy on the penalties, on the theory that an uncalled penalty is better for the PR machine than an erroneous called penalty. I know that our game had only a couple of penalties called; how were the other games on penalties?

A Salt Weapon
09-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Vikings' Chris Kluwe not high on replacement refs

While he makes a few points, I will take everything he says with a grain of salt, he's sticking up for the union refs and nothing more. It's more a matter of politics to him than gameplay.
Posted via Mobile Device

Idahojim
09-10-2012, 06:33 PM
What I like is that they let the players play. Not as many ticky tac calls. I say they keep them!

KChiefer
09-10-2012, 07:52 PM
Really, it's a matter of the frequency of issues rather than the severity. I'm definitely on the "stay the course for the long-term benefit" bandwagon of the refs dispute, but I can acknowledge that there have been a lot MORE iffy calls this week than with the normal refs.

What I'm wondering is what's the long-term benefit?

If and when the NFL/owners wins this lock-out, they'll be saving themselves a whopping $60K-100K per team per year. The Chiefs could pay their part in that 230 times over with the money they didn't spend in the cap this year.

I get that owners shouldn't just give the refs whatever they want, but creating controversy in your sport, to save what is chump change to an owner, when the NFL at a pinnacle of success/profit is a needless risk imo.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 07:59 PM
What I'm wondering is what's the "long-term benefit?"

If and when the NFL/owners wins this lock-out, they'll be saving themselves a whopping $60K-100K per team per year. The Chiefs could pay their part in that 230 times over with the money they didn't spend in the cap this year.

I get that owners shouldn't just give the refs whatever they want, but creating controversy in your sport, to save what is chump change to an owner, when the NFL at a pinnacle of success/profit is a needless risk imo.

There's more than money at stake. The NFL wants to make at least some refs full-time employees and have extra crews so that they can 1) train n00bs and 2) have backups to go in when someone's underperforming. The refs don't want to have anything to do with either of those.

KChiefer
09-10-2012, 08:07 PM
There's more than money at stake. The NFL wants to make at least some refs full-time employees and have extra crews so that they can 1) train n00bs and 2) have backups to go in when someone's underperforming. The refs don't want to have anything to do with either of those.

So the NFL wants to pay them less while making them train someone that can replace them. I think many employees would have a problem with that.

KCTitus
09-10-2012, 08:08 PM
I thought they did okay really for the most part. They didn't try to affect the outcome too much and let guys play.

For all the bellyaching by the talking heads on ESPN and other media about the refs, I found the above to be true. They let them play for the most part.

Frankly, over the years, I have tired of the refs becoming a bigger and bigger part of the game. Ed Hochuli and his crew are the worst at impacting games. During one KC/SD game his crew called KC for 15 holding penalties, and zero against SD. That's just not possible.

Since that time, I have felt the regular crews did play favorites with the glamor teams and would give those teams the benefit of the doubt on close calls.

These refs have no agenda and it was clear. While Atlanta was reaming KC, at least the referees weren't piling on.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 08:08 PM
So the NFL wants to pay them less while making them train someone that can replace them. I think many employees would have a problem with that.

Sure. But it'd be better for the game, which is all we - as fans - should care about.

Rausch
09-10-2012, 08:11 PM
Ed Hochuli and his crew are the worst at impacting games. During one KC/SD game his crew called KC for 15 holding penalties, and zero against SD. That's just not possible.

He is, by far, the worst.

You will never see him call a game that he does not have a huge impact on. The guy ALWAYS has more than one controversial call and always has a call that decides the game.

To me not seeing him is the only positive out of all this...

KChiefer
09-10-2012, 08:39 PM
Sure. But it'd be better for the game, which is all we - as fans - should care about.

Fair enough. A better product is a good thing. But pay them for it and pay them well. So many people in the NFL get the money they're owed even when they're a total failure. And that's in 7/8-figures, not 5/6-figures.

DaFace
09-10-2012, 08:40 PM
Fair enough. A better product is a good thing. But pay them for it and pay them well. So many people in the NFL get the money they're owed even when they're a total failure. And that's in 7/8-figures, not 5/6-figures.

Yeah, that's what needs to happen IMO. The full-time and extra-crew things get implemented, but the refs get paid much more to make up for it.

Fruit Ninja
09-10-2012, 08:41 PM
yeah, not see'ing alot of ticky tacky fouls is great. That shit happens way to much with regular ref's. That shit pisses me off to no end.

BigMeatballDave
09-10-2012, 08:45 PM
For all the bellyaching by the talking heads on ESPN and other media about the refs, I found the above to be true. They let them play for the most part.

Frankly, over the years, I have tired of the refs becoming a bigger and bigger part of the game. Ed Hochuli and his crew are the worst at impacting games. During one KC/SD game his crew called KC for 15 holding penalties, and zero against SD. That's just not possible.

Since that time, I have felt the regular crews did play favorites with the glamor teams and would give those teams the benefit of the doubt on close calls.

These refs have no agenda and it was clear. While Atlanta was reaming KC, at least the referees weren't piling on.Holy shit!

When was this? Refresh my memory.

KC Jones
09-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Holy shit!

When was this? Refresh my memory.

Apparently I remembered it wrong - 1999? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-10-04/sports/9910040174_1_elvis-grbac-four-times-chiefs-chargers

I will say that the replacement refs missed a lot of potential calls. I could have sworn I saw Albert jump offsides and they let it slide. If anything maybe Hali will get held even worse this year.

morphius
09-10-2012, 10:08 PM
I was never all that impressed with the regular refs, screwed up PI calls was the norm, missing choke holding, etc, etc. Are these guys great, no, but the others were blowing calls with instant replay as well so I can't say that I miss them.

tk13
09-11-2012, 07:49 PM
According to Deadspin, the head linesman from the Browns/Eagles game last week is officiating a 7th grade game in Oklahoma tonight.

http://deadspin.com/5942447/the-head-linesman-from-sundays-browns+eagles-game-is-currently-refereeing-a-7th+grade-game-in-oklahoma

DaFace
09-11-2012, 07:54 PM
According to Deadspin, the head linesman from the Browns/Eagles game last week is officiating a 7th grade game in Oklahoma tonight.

http://deadspin.com/5942447/the-head-linesman-from-sundays-browns+eagles-game-is-currently-refereeing-a-7th+grade-game-in-oklahoma

Meh...not sure why that matters.

Garcia Bronco
09-11-2012, 08:55 PM
That's not true. You have to control the ball when hitting the ground in the regular field too.

No dude. He made a move with the ball. He extended it into the endzone. It was a touchdown. The only people I've heard clean it wasn't is right here on this thread.

DaFace
09-11-2012, 08:56 PM
No dude. He made a move with the ball. He extended it into the endzone. It was a touchdown. The only people I've heard clean it wasn't is right here on this thread.

Not sure what you're saying - I agree that it was 100% clean.

A Salt Weapon
09-11-2012, 10:28 PM
They cleaned the ball, why?
Posted via Mobile Device

pr_capone
09-11-2012, 10:35 PM
According to Deadspin, the head linesman from the Browns/Eagles game last week is officiating a 7th grade game in Oklahoma tonight.

http://deadspin.com/5942447/the-head-linesman-from-sundays-browns+eagles-game-is-currently-refereeing-a-7th+grade-game-in-oklahoma

No different than a police officer taking on a second job as a grocery store rent-a-cop. The man had either already made a commitment to this game and kept his word, is capitalizing on his celebrity and who can blame him, or just needs the money.

KCrockaholic
09-16-2012, 08:53 AM
nick wright ‏@getnickwright
So if ESPN doesn't alert the NFL we got a tried and true Saints fan reffing one of their games? Well, that's just fantastic.

nick wright ‏@getnickwright
...and not just a tried and true Saints fan. A dummy as well. A guy who thought he could flaunt his allegiance on Facebook.

John P. Lopez ‏@LopezOnSports
Here is the officiating crew for Texans-Jags. I see nothing wrong.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A26_ixICIAAqm-M.jpg

KCrockaholic
09-16-2012, 09:00 AM
Rich Eisen ‏@richeisen
Unbelievable that a game that already features an interim to an interim head coach now features a replacement for a replacement ref.

Chiefshrink
09-16-2012, 09:09 AM
I get that it is refreshing to allow the players to play, but you watch, as soon as a big market media darling of the sports world gets hosed to the point of a loss all hell breaks loose on these replacement refs:thumb: The key here is there hasn't been anything significant happen YET that would warrant immediate replacement (pun intended:p) But it's coming I assure you:thumb:


Anybody see that illegal pick the Falcons ran allowing them a TD? That pissed me off they didn't see that. It's okay to let the players play as long as it doesn't go against your team:rolleyes:

KCTitus
09-16-2012, 09:15 AM
Apparently I remembered it wrong - 1999? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-10-04/sports/9910040174_1_elvis-grbac-four-times-chiefs-chargers

I will say that the replacement refs missed a lot of potential calls. I could have sworn I saw Albert jump offsides and they let it slide. If anything maybe Hali will get held even worse this year.

I thought it was in 2004 or 2005...I know that several of the holding calls were declined because the actual offensive play didnt move the ball forward. It was 13 or 15 holding penalties called, but ultimately 3 or 4 were declined. I looked on nfl.com and football reference for the exact game/game book and since the NFL doesnt keep track of penalties, it's nearly impossible to tell today.

In any event, Ed Hoculi's crew was the worst and for all the clamor about these referees, I dont see anything worse than what his crew and a few others did to KC. It had become evident over the last few years, that if the team was not a glamor team, they did not get the benefit of the doubt on calls and ticky tack, drive-ending penalties were the norm.

KC has regularly received the 'brown' end of the stick when it came to bad calls...so much so, that during the Gunther era went three straight weeks receiving letters from the league office apologizing for bad/missed calls.

All that said, its up to the team to overcome and I understand that, but when the team consistently gets bad calls against them, it makes success just that much harder.

I frankly dont care if the regular refs ever come back. Im not missing them.

*edit* Frankly, it's my opinion that all the ESPN/Media clamor for the regular refs is exactly because they favor the media darling teams.

Marcellus
09-16-2012, 09:16 AM
Rich Eisen ‏@richeisen
Unbelievable that a game that already features an interim to an interim head coach now features a replacement for a replacement ref.

LMAO

chefsos
09-16-2012, 09:26 AM
I saw the story about the ref who's a Saints' fan and my first thought is that it's got to be pretty much impossible to find officials who AREN'T fans of a particular team. I mean, these guys are involved in football pretty heavily; certainly many are former players. They can't live in a vacuum. I guess this guy just made it too apparent.

Deberg_1990
09-16-2012, 09:34 AM
I saw the story about the ref who's a Saints' fan and my first thought is that it's got to be pretty much impossible to find officials who AREN'T fans of a particular team. I mean, these guys are involved in football pretty heavily; certainly many are former players. They can't live in a vacuum. I guess this guy just made it too apparent.

My thoughts as well, but i guess this guy was a little too open about where his loyalty fell. He made posts about his team on social networking sites.

DaFace
09-16-2012, 09:40 AM
I saw the story about the ref who's a Saints' fan and my first thought is that it's got to be pretty much impossible to find officials who AREN'T fans of a particular team. I mean, these guys are involved in football pretty heavily; certainly many are former players. They can't live in a vacuum. I guess this guy just made it too apparent.

Did something actually happen to the guy, or just twitter outrage?

Pablo
09-16-2012, 10:06 AM
Did something actually happen to the guy, or just twitter outrage?He was removed from his assignment as side judge for Saints v. Panthers. Didn't say if he was re-assigned or anything.

Mr. Laz
09-16-2012, 10:22 AM
so does that mean that Hoculi won't be able to ref anymore Donk games?

DaFace
09-16-2012, 02:39 PM
It may just be the games I'm watching this week, but the replacements are looking quite a bit more shaky to me this week.

YayMike
09-16-2012, 03:08 PM
there were some absolutely horrible calls in the Ravens/Eagles game that cannot even be explained in text. they need the real officials back REALLY badly before they cost a team a game.

Bacon Cheeseburger
09-16-2012, 03:11 PM
there were some absolutely horrible calls in the Ravens/Eagles game that cannot even be explained in text. they need the real officials back REALLY badly before they cost a team a game.
:rolleyes:

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-16-2012, 03:12 PM
there were some absolutely horrible calls in the Ravens/Eagles game that cannot even be explained in text. they need the real officials back REALLY badly before they cost a team a game.

Yeah Flacco is calling them out

YayMike
09-16-2012, 03:14 PM
:rolleyes:

they ruled a turnover on the final drive of the game when vick threw an incomplete pass clear as day.

they called roughing the passer when the LB was clearly pushed into the QB.

i am watching the redskins/lambs game and they are clearly confused on what to do.

do you....feel differently that these guys suck?

KCTitus
09-16-2012, 03:19 PM
...do you....feel differently that these guys suck?

The 'regular' refs suck...they're no worse than what is on the field today. I had to laugh, the holding call on NE late in the game -- there is NO way that call is made with the 'regular' refs. NE doesnt get game changing holding calls typically called against them.

These refs make mistakes, the 'regular' refs make mistakes...only in this instance, the mistakes dont always favor the same teams.

ghak99
09-16-2012, 05:01 PM
they ruled a turnover on the final drive of the game when vick threw an incomplete pass clear as day.

I found it amusing the ref who finally made the call was the one who got to go under the hood and determine... he was an idiot. LMAO

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-16-2012, 05:09 PM
Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira

I'm officially over it. The regular refs need to get back on the field. Enough is enough.

Setsuna
09-16-2012, 05:10 PM
That call in the Pitt game is the dagger.

morphius
09-16-2012, 05:13 PM
there were some absolutely horrible calls in the Ravens/Eagles game that cannot even be explained in text. they need the real officials back REALLY badly before they cost a team a game.
The good thing is that with the replacements they can get rid of the bad ones. With the regulars you were just stuck with their crappy calling for the season.

scorpio
09-16-2012, 05:17 PM
Steelers/Jets is the worst officiated game I've ever seen

KChiefer
09-16-2012, 05:20 PM
That call in the Pitt game is the dagger.

The P.I call that was supposed to be roughing even though it was a legal hit??? Yeah, that was WHACK!

But it won't cost PIT the game so it's all good right, replacement ref supporters???

Are the RRs getting a lot of calls right because of review? Yes, but I'm tired of seeing these guys make super late calls and /or wrong calls only to have replay bail them out.

If you think these games are played just as smoothly as before, you're kidding yourself.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-16-2012, 05:35 PM
Sage Rosenfels ‏@SageRosenfels18

Replacement refs are a mess today. What owners and fans don't realize is the calls they are missing that you only can see from the field.

BryanBusby
09-16-2012, 05:38 PM
The Unnecessary Roughness call in the Seahawks/Cowboys game where Bruce Carter got called for barely touching Russell Wilson while he was rolling out of bounds, while this was ignored (on the same fucking play)......

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/547/080/GoldenTate_TrucksSeanLee_original.gif

Shit was just atrocious.

Bump
09-16-2012, 05:43 PM
that TD that Jackson should have got in that Rams game was embarrassing to the NFL.

KChiefer
09-16-2012, 06:13 PM
SNF pregame just showed a Jet getting tackled 15 yards downfield...no flag...no biggie.

Bwana
09-16-2012, 06:20 PM
The Unnecessary Roughness call in the Seahawks/Cowboys game where Bruce Carter got called for barely touching Russell Wilson while he was rolling out of bounds, while this was ignored (on the same ****ing play)......

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/547/080/GoldenTate_TrucksSeanLee_original.gif

Shit was just atrocious.


Yeah, I caught that live. How in the fuck do you miss that? I have a feeling Roger won't miss it when the NFL reviews it on Monday. :evil: I bet that was at least a 15K hit.

Valiant
09-16-2012, 06:23 PM
There were way more bad calls this week then last.. But still shit the regular guys get wrong..

I agree with the above poster.. The media teams are finally getting calls against them.. I will take the replacements over the regular for that fact alone..

BryanBusby
09-16-2012, 06:24 PM
There were way more bad calls this week then last.. But still shit the regular guys get wrong..

I agree with the above poster.. The media teams are finally getting calls against them.. I will take the replacements over the regular for that fact alone..
You really don't comprehend how bad they are. I never seen a game where the road team got fucked so hard on a ball spot that the home crowd was chanting bullshit for their cause.

Rams Fan
09-16-2012, 06:26 PM
Redskins-Rams game was terrible on both sides.

KChiefer
09-16-2012, 08:57 PM
Looks like the refs in SNF don't know when a QB's entire leg, including his knee and ass, is down, it's a sack and they should blow the whistle.

Frazod
09-16-2012, 08:58 PM
Heh. The ref just said "Glame Cock" LMAO

ghak99
09-17-2012, 09:03 PM
Looks like they're putting on a good show tonight.

MagicHef
09-17-2012, 10:23 PM
The amazing Tony Carter managed to commit pass interference without actually touching the receiver.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-18-2012, 09:03 PM
Incarcerated Bob Incarcerated Bob ‏@incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: NFL quietly (or so they thought)deployed Security personal 2investigate a "GAMBLING" #Ref - Betting games #NoNo

tk13
09-18-2012, 09:08 PM
Incarcerated Bob is a rock solid source.

Supposedly LeSean McCoy said one of the officials told him he was on the guy's fantasy football team.

-King-
09-19-2012, 01:42 PM
Yeah, I caught that live. How in the fuck do you miss that? I have a feeling Roger won't miss it when the NFL reviews it on Monday. :evil: I bet that was at least a 15K hit.

It's a good hard block block.