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LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I know Javier Arenas is our nickle guy... But when we drafted him, to me he had potentional to be a good Cb. Why was he still playing nickle and not cb? Is he not our number 3 guy?

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:33 AM
javier arenas is not and will never be an outside cover corner

that was blatantly obvious when Pioli reached for him with a 2nd round pick lol

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:34 AM
javier arenas is not and will never be an outside cover corner

that was blatantly obvious when Pioli reached for him with a 2nd round pick lol

Was he not at Alabama?

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:35 AM
I know we drafted him a lot for return reasons.. But he should be that solid depth at cb we lacked yesterday.

Von Dumbass
09-10-2012, 09:35 AM
“What blows me away with the Chiefs — when they drafted (Javier) Arenas, Kareem Jackson was the No. 1 corner on the other side (at Alabama). When they drafted Jalil Brown in the fourth round, he was No. 2 behind Jimmy Smith (at Colorado). (DeQuan) Menzie was No. 2 behind Dre Kirkpatrick (at Alabama). Stanford Routt was No. 2 behind Nnamdi Asomugha (with the Raiders). I can’t figure out why Kansas City likes No. 2 corners so much, but it’s definitely a trend and hard to understand.”

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/09/09/insider-parcells-poor-drafts-drained-dolphins

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:36 AM
javier arenas is not and will never be an outside cover corner

that was blatantly obvious when Pioli reached for him with a 2nd round pick lol

This has nothing to do with it.

You want an honest answer?

It's because RaC has a thing about not moving his corners. If you are a LCB, you will stay at LCB, no matter how depleted our RCB is.

Same goes for Nickel.

Has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with the scheme.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:36 AM
Was he not at Alabama?

lol Alabama is not the NFL?

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:36 AM
I know Javier Arenas is our nickle guy... But when we drafted him, to me he had potentional to be a good Cb. Why was he still playing nickle and not cb? Is he not our number 3 guy?
because he is very limited about who he can cover

WR can't be too big or too fast or Arenas is in trouble


although i don't suppose he would be any worse than Reeves at this point. :doh!:

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:37 AM
This has nothing to do with it.

You want an honest answer?

It's because RaC has a thing about not moving his corners. If you are a LCB, you will stay an LCB, no matter how depleted our RCB is.

Same goes for Nickel.

Has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with the scheme.

that makes no sense whatsoever

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:38 AM
lol Alabama is not the NFL?

No shit. If he was an outside cb at bama, he can be one for the Chiefs, especially since he is talented.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Was he not at Alabama?

He played outside and inside at Alabama. Last preseason Romeo tried him on the outside and it didn't go well. He's really not very fast. he is a great returner and the best blitzing CB to come out since Ronde Barber.

As for #2 CBs, there is alot of tape on them because they get thrown at more than the other guy. They are easy to grade. I have no problem with us taking these guys where we took them. Arenas has been a good 2nd round pick imo.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:38 AM
that makes no sense whatsoever

It doesn't have to make sense to you.

It's the truth.

RaC doesn't move his corners despite injury.

You can bitch about where he was drafted all day long.

He's a nickel, and he'll stay a nickel, even if that means Reeves has to play.

That's the way Rac does it.

If what YOU said made sense, then Routt would've been in Flowers spot.

Ace Gunner
09-10-2012, 09:39 AM
He's returning and covering punts. He is good at the nickel/dime position. I think this team needs to fix the RDE/ROLB/RILB positions. If you can't get to the QB and your main cover backer is too often out of position during big plays, you can't really play with the big big boys. And those were the big boys yesterday, Julio J and White put on a show of speed and how it will kill.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:39 AM
No shit. If he was an outside cb at bama, he can be one for the Chiefs, especially since he is talented.

he's like smaller and slower than Brandon Flowers, who struggles against big and fast WRs himself sometimes as is. lol

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:39 AM
because he is very limited about who he can cover

WR can't be too big or too fast or Arenas is in trouble


although i don't suppose he would be any worse than Reeves at this point. :doh!:

Thats my point. Why not try, kid was a good cb for bama, why not atleast try.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:39 AM
No shit. If he was an outside cb at bama, he can be one for the Chiefs, especially since he is talented.

Once again, it's not the player, It's RaC.

He doesn't like swapping his DB's.

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:40 AM
he's like smaller and slower than Brandon Flowers, who struggles against big and fast WRs himself sometimes as is. lol

He is more talented than the reeves.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:41 AM
he's like smaller and slower than Brandon Flowers, who struggles against big and fast WRs himself sometimes as is. lol

And how many Big, fast strong WR's have you seen him play against?

You honestly think that's the reason Arenas wasn't playing in Flowers spot?

That is retarded.

If what i said WASN'T true, then Routt would've been in Flowers spot.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Thats my point. Why not try, kid was a good cb for bama, why not atleast try.
because i think they want to go with guys that have the potential to become good cover corners.

Arenas has physical limitations that will problem never allow him to cover certain guys.

As for Reeves, i have no idea why that worthless POS is on the field, other than a bunch of injuries.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
i dont know if you watched the game yesterday but it's not like Julio Jones or Roddy White and friends where lining up in the same spots themselves either.

They were beating everyone, left and right side. Harry Douglas even got in on the fucking action. So just like everyone else, Javier Arenas got beat by Douglas, White or Jones at least a couple times. It doesnt matter if he is in the Nickel or on the outside, they lined up in front of him and still beat him

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
because i think they want to go with guys that have the potential to become good cover corners.

Arenas has physical limitations that will problem never allow him to cover certain guys.

As for Reeves, i have no idea why that worthless POS is on the field, other than a bunch of injuries.

BS BS BS.

They didn't draft him so high if they didn't think he could be a good cover corner. And he has been a good nickel back.

They drafted him to be a Nickel, and they want him to stay at that position. RaC has NEVER moved his DB's around. It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with not disrupting his scheme.

Rain Man
09-10-2012, 09:43 AM
I like Arenas a lot. I know he's small, but it seems like he's got great coverage skills. However, it seems like the slot receivers are the ones where you need a guy like Arenas who is quick more than fast.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
i dont know if you watched the game yesterday but it's not like Julio Jones or Roddy White and friends where lining up in the same spots themselves either.

They were beating everyone, left and right side. Harry Douglas even got in on the ****ing action. So just like everyone else, Javier Arenas got beat by Douglas, White or Jones at least a couple times. It doesnt matter if he is in the Nickel or on the outside, they lined up in front of him and still beat him
you forgot to add lol

Chiefnj2
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
Detox has answered the question correctly several times.

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:45 AM
I think at half, your adjustment is you put the most talented cb you have left on Jones. And JA is more talented than the other guys. I felt at the time we drafted him for depth, not just to be a nickle guy.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:45 AM
i dont know if you watched the game yesterday but it's not like Julio Jones or Roddy White and friends where lining up in the same spots themselves either.

They were beating everyone, left and right side. Harry Douglas even got in on the ****ing action. So just like everyone else, Javier Arenas got beat by Douglas, White or Jones at least a couple times. It doesnt matter if he is in the Nickel or on the outside, they lined up in front of him and still beat him

Ok.....but what does that have to do with Arenas not playing on the outside?

RaC doesn't move them. Whether that's a good strategy or not doesn't change the fact that Arenas playing nickel has very little to do with whether or not he could play outside better than reeves.

It's stupid Monday morning over reactionary crap.

I swear, people don't think straight after a loss.

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:46 AM
BS BS BS.

They didn't draft him so high if they didn't think he could be a good cover corner. And he has been a good nickel back.

They drafted him to be a Nickel, and they want him to stay at that position. RaC has NEVER moved his DB's around. It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with not disrupting his scheme.

I agree and believe what your saying... I just dont agree with it.. Lol

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 09:46 AM
I think at half, your adjustment is you put the most talented cb you have left on Jones. And JA is more talented than the other guys. I felt at the time we drafted him for depth, not just to be a nickle guy.

RaC has never done it here that way.

Not sure what to tell ya.

LiL stumppy
09-10-2012, 09:47 AM
Ok.....but what does that have to do with Arenas not playing on the outside?

RaC doesn't move them. Whether that's a good strategy or not doesn't change the fact that Arenas playing nickel has very little to do with whether or not he could play outside better than reeves.

It's stupid Monday morning over reactionary crap.

I swear, people don't think straight after a loss.

And as a side note, im not overreacting. I knew this was going to be a problem with lewis flowers and hali out.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:47 AM
Ok.....but what does that have to do with Arenas not playing on the outside?

RaC doesn't move them. Whether that's a good strategy or not doesn't change the fact that Arenas playing nickel has very little to do with whether or not he could play outside better than reeves.

It's stupid Monday morning over reactionary crap.

I swear, people don't think straight after a loss.

and how do you know Arenas can play the outside better than Reeves or Brown or whatever bum they put on the outside?

because they picked him in the 2nd round over signing Reeves off the street? You dont. My argument is it doesnt matter if Arenas was on the outside or in the nickel Julio Jones and Roddy White would have shit all over him regardless of where they moved him

He's a 5'9 midget who is slow, he's not going to cover 6'4 Julio Jones who can jump out of the stadium no matter where you think he could line up in RACs defense

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 09:49 AM
BS BS BS.

They didn't draft him so high if they didn't think he could be a good cover corner. And he has been a good nickel back.

They drafted him to be a Nickel, and they want him to stay at that position. RaC has NEVER moved his DB's around. It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with not disrupting his scheme.
i understand ... but IT'S BOTH issues

1. RAC does not move his CB's around

2. Arenas is not a guy you can be matched up against just anyone


Crennel refuses to control the matchups by moving CB's around so IF they use Arenas then offenses can target him by putting a big,fast fly route type receiver up against Arenas.

Arenas can't cover certain guys and Crennel refuses to control the matchups so they are just not using Arenas.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 09:51 AM
your argument is "Rac does not move his CBs around"

*Rac converts Travis Daniels a CB and moves him to STARTING FS.*


lol derp. So I dont buy that scheme garbage for a second. If the dude had a skillset, he would be moved.

Chiefnj2
09-10-2012, 09:52 AM
And this reminds me, to all the people who were against drafting Barron last year (should he have been available), eat a bag of dicks.

Sorter
09-10-2012, 10:00 AM
the best blitzing CB to come out since Ronde Barber.


Charles Woodson says go fuck yourself.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 10:05 AM
your argument is "Rac does not move his CBs around"

*Rac converts Travis Daniels a CB and moves him to STARTING FS.*


lol derp. So I dont buy that scheme garbage for a second. If the dude had a skillset, he would be moved.
the only problem is that even with Carr and Flowers, Crennel refused to move the guys around for the best matchup.

Flowers is a better matchup for certain types of receivers, so is Carr.

They are different types of players and yet Crennel let the offense control the matchups every game then too.

He just doesn't move guys

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 10:16 AM
your argument is "Rac does not move his CBs around"

*Rac converts Travis Daniels a CB and moves him to STARTING FS.*


lol derp. So I dont buy that scheme garbage for a second. If the dude had a skillset, he would be moved.

:facepalm: wow.

Converting Travis Daniels to safety....yeah, that totally debunks what i said.....

You act as if this were a theory that i just made up.

It's not a theory, IT'S WHAT HE DOES YOU TARD.

Chiefnj2
09-10-2012, 10:18 AM
your argument is "Rac does not move his CBs around"

*Rac converts Travis Daniels a CB and moves him to STARTING FS.*


lol derp. So I dont buy that scheme garbage for a second. If the dude had a skillset, he would be moved.

Obviously the neural synapsis' don't fire with precision.

Look at Romeo's depth chart. When somebody goes down look who replaces them (hint its the guy directly behind them on the list - Flowers, Brown, Reeves).

htismaqe
09-10-2012, 10:18 AM
the only problem is that even with Carr and Flowers, Crennel refused to move the guys around for the best matchup.

Flowers is a better matchup for certain types of receivers, so is Carr.

They are different types of players and yet Crennel let the offense control the matchups every game then too.

He just doesn't move guys

Romeo is stubborn to a fault. And his defensive philosophy is dated. Not a good combination...

DJ's left nut
09-10-2012, 10:23 AM
I know Javier Arenas is our nickle guy... But when we drafted him, to me he had potentional to be a good Cb. Why was he still playing nickle and not cb? Is he not our number 3 guy?

You were wrong about his potential - the end.

Arenas was a nice little 4th round talent that we took in the 2nd. The 2nd is where you're supposed to take guys that have the potential to develop into legitimate outside Corners, but we didn't.

Instead we took a short guy with average speed, stiff hips and mediocre acceleration because we could also have him return punts. He's no more capable of doing a credible job on an island that Reeves is.

He was another bad Pioli pick.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 10:24 AM
the only problem is that even with Carr and Flowers, Crennel refused to move the guys around for the best matchup.

Flowers is a better matchup for certain types of receivers, so is Carr.

They are different types of players and yet Crennel let the offense control the matchups every game then too.

He just doesn't move guys

I dont think Dallas or the Jets do that either? Carr stayed on the left side all night. Revis stays on the left. I think Pittsburgh might move their CBs around, maybe not.

Is it a 3-4 thing? Do 43 teams move their CBs around more? I'm not sure I can think of a team that swaps their outside CBs. I think the argument is more can Javier Arenas the individual be an outside cover guy or is he strictly limited to being a nickel more so than it is, Romeo does not move guys. Some guys that play the nickel can bump outside and play the outside, I'm not sure every team has a guy like that as their 3rd CB though. So the question is, can Arenas do it? I think if Routt would go down with an injury they would have no choice to try then right?

But it's a double edged sword, at the same time if you move Arenas to the outside on a passing down, then who plays the nickel? Jacques Reeves? Either way the nickel or the outside gets beat like a drum.

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 10:27 AM
I dont think Dallas or the Jets do that either? Carr stayed on the left side all night. Revis stays on the left. I think Pittsburgh might move their CBs around, maybe not.



No.

Reevis shadows players all over the field. Wherever they line up a #1 WR is where Reevis goes most of the time.

Dallas moved Carr around a bit in wk 1 as well.

mcaj22
09-10-2012, 10:27 AM
Obviously the neural synapsis' don't fire with precision.

Look at Romeo's depth chart. When somebody goes down look who replaces them (hint its the guy directly behind them on the list - Flowers, Brown, Reeves).

based off your comments here then:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/depth-chart.html

I'm going off of your "HINT" you just gave to me and I am looking at what name is listed behind Stanford Routt at RCB on the depth chart. And low and behold look who it is, Javier Arenas!

htismaqe
09-10-2012, 10:29 AM
Is it a 3-4 thing? Do 43 teams move their CBs around more?

No, and it's not a zone/man thing either. It's about matchups.

Gunther was a LCB/RCB guy too...

Detoxing
09-10-2012, 10:31 AM
I understand what RaC is thinking by not moving his DB's around....i'm just not 100% sure i agree with it.

We'll use Arenas as an example.

He's been playing Nickel since he's been in the league. He practices as Nickel and plays at Nickel.

If you were to move him from Nickel to the outside, he would be using a different technique, he would have to adjust, and he might still be a liability because of it.

AND you create another hole at Nickel.

So instead of having 1 hole, you now have 2.

I get that.....but.....you gotta adjust.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 10:47 AM
No, and it's not a zone/man thing either. It's about matchups.

Gunther was a LCB/RCB guy too...
i hate it

You are basically allowing the offense to dictate which WR they think we be best against which defender.

idiotic to give them that edge

laziness because they don't want to take the time to teach the DB's how to adjust when they move.

htismaqe
09-10-2012, 10:55 AM
i hate it

You are basically allowing the offense to dictate which WR they think we be best against which defender.

idiotic to give them that edge

laziness because they don't want to take the time to teach the DB's how to adjust when they move.

I hate most everything about this defense unfortunately. It's too passive.

The NFL is slanted today towards passing offenses. We talk about it here every day when talking about QBs.

What's lost in that discussion is what it has done to defenses. The days of the shut down defense are gone. You're going to give up yards.

You've got to be willing to take risks and generate turnovers. It's the only way to win IMO.

Rausch
09-10-2012, 11:18 AM
I hate most everything about this defense unfortunately. It's too passive.


You can't win with a passive 3-4. A passive 3-4 is like saying vegetarian lion.

The whole point of the 3-4 is to be able to attack an offense with multiple angles/players.

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 11:39 AM
I hate most everything about this defense unfortunately. It's too passive.

The NFL is slanted today towards passing offenses. We talk about it here every day when talking about QBs.

What's lost in that discussion is what it has done to defenses. The days of the shut down defense are gone. You're going to give up yards.

You've got to be willing to take risks and generate turnovers. It's the only way to win IMO.

You can't win with a passive 3-4. A passive 3-4 is like saying vegetarian lion.

The whole point of the 3-4 is to be able to attack an offense with multiple angles/players.these

Mr. Laz
09-10-2012, 11:49 AM
The problem is we can keeping hiring new head coaches or changing schemes. We aren't going to fire Pioli yet either.

The best thing we could do right now is hire a defensive 'consultant' that also uses the 3-4 scheme and then let him gradually tweak and take it over.