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View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs already telegraphing the run/pass playcall by formation.


Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 07:59 PM
Great video from AP breaking this down.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mu8zSilqaD0?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cliffs:

33 snaps out of shotgun

27 were passes

Better fix that, Brian Duhball.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-12-2012, 08:00 PM
Interesting, but one game is not a trend.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:01 PM
Interesting, but one game is not a trend.

Agreed.

But this, combined with the majority of our plays on first down being runs, are potentially disastrous trends.

Buck
09-12-2012, 08:02 PM
Uhh...I would say that's the normal ratio for shotgun snaps. Plus when playing from behind means you're gonna pass it more.

BigRock
09-12-2012, 08:02 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/q0ib.jpg

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:03 PM
If you're almost 70% completion out of shotgun then what is to bitch about?

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Yeah, that drove me nuts during the Herm regime. Hopefully it gets better next week, I'll be watching it closely.

Papi
09-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Uhhh we were playing from behind and the shotgun formation is traditionally a passing formation.... I don't see the issue.

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:04 PM
Did anyone see the standard Haley draw ran by the Steelers over and over and over again Sunday night?

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:04 PM
Uhh...I would say that's the normal ratio for shotgun snaps. Plus when playing from behind means you're gonna pass it more.

When the defense knows that you only run when the QB is under center...guess what happens to your running game.

And what happened to our running game in this game?

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:05 PM
If you're almost 70% completion out of shotgun then what is to bitch about?

We didn't score in the second half.

Papi
09-12-2012, 08:05 PM
When the defense knows that you only run when the QB is under center...guess what happens to your running game.

And what happened to our running game in this game?

Valid point, but we weren't gonna be running much in the 2nd half regardless.

Buck
09-12-2012, 08:05 PM
When the defense knows that you only run when the QB is under center...guess what happens to your running game.

And what happened to our running game in this game?

You didn't post the number of passes from under center at all.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-12-2012, 08:06 PM
If you're almost 70% completion out of shotgun then what is to bitch about?

Because the other 30% were for losses or turnovers.....seems right until further examination. Cassel'd again.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:06 PM
Valid point, but we weren't gonna be running much in the 2nd half regardless.

Maybe if our running game hadn't been stuffed, we would have scored a TD on the first drive instead of missing a field goal.

Ever think of that?

DA_T_84
09-12-2012, 08:06 PM
Uhh...I would say that's the normal ratio for shotgun snaps. Plus when playing from behind means you're gonna pass it more.

THIS

No shit we were going to start passing. I'd be more inclined to buy into this presentation if homeboy at least mentioned this in the video.

He doesn't take into account game situations.... down, distance, score.... you know, all the things that go into play calling.

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
We didn't score in the second half.

That had a little to do with a missed FG, a blindside shot on our QB and a tipped but very, very catchable pass that was intercepted plus another INT when it was well over.

And we did score in the 2nd half, just when it didn't matter

chiefzilla1501
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Uhh...I would say that's the normal ratio for shotgun snaps. Plus when playing from behind means you're gonna pass it more.

It's not normal for 28 of 34 of your under center snaps being run plays.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
You didn't post the number of passes from under center at all.

We had 67 plays from scrimmage.

34 came under center.

29 were runs.

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
All I know is for the last several years people bitched that we constantly ran the draw our of the shotgun. Sunday, Cassel completes almost 70% of his passes from the shotgun and we bitch about that.

Papi
09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
Maybe if our running game hadn't been stuffed, we would have scored a TD on the first drive instead of missing a field goal.

Ever think of that?

Well I don't know that the trend had been established by that point in the game so I can't say for sure. I mostly think about how much I want a real qb.

tk13
09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
This really is a bigger story than Cassel but everyone has a foaming rabid obsession about Cassel. We know what Cassel is... the real underachievement was the parts of our offense that were supposed to be really good got shut down. And it sure wasn't because Cassel was struggling so they could focus on the run. Completely outcoached in the 2nd half... far more concerning than Cassel chucking a broken screen play at someone's feet.

Buck
09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
We had 67 plays from scrimmage.

34 came under center.

29 were runs.

You should post that in the OP. I thought you were bitching about 90% of shotgun snaps being passes.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
That had a little to do with a missed FG, a blindside shot on our QB and a tipped but very, very catchable pass that was intercepted plus another INT when it was well over.


And it had a lot to do with our running game getting shut down.

When your running game is shut down...sacks, interceptions, they happen.

chiefzilla1501
09-12-2012, 08:09 PM
All I know is for the last several years people bitched that we constantly ran the draw our of the shotgun. Sunday, Cassel completes almost 70% of his passes from the shotgun and we bitch about that.

I don't think this is on cassel. But it might be an indication of why Atlanta looked like they were reading our playbook in the second half. This concerns me about daboll.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:09 PM
You should post that in the OP. I thought you were bitching about 90% of shotgun snaps being passes.

I assume that people here can do simple math and simple logic.

Perhaps asking too much?

chiefzilla1501
09-12-2012, 08:10 PM
This really is a bigger story than Cassel but everyone has a foaming rabid obsession about Cassel. We know what Cassel is... the real underachievement was the parts of our offense that were supposed to be really good got shut down. And it sure wasn't because Cassel was struggling so they could focus on the run.

Cassel played fine.

But nobody is pleased at the way he handled things when things went south. And it's not the first time this has happened.

jspchief
09-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Want to see something even scarier than this trend?

If you recorded the game, go back and listen to Cassel's cadence. Listen to it on every play in which it is audible.

Papi
09-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Soooo Daboll is a moran?

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:11 PM
And it had a lot to do with our running game getting shut down.

When your running game is shut down...sacks, interceptions, they happen.

Our running game got shutdown and Cassel still converted 3rd and long. We were moving the ball even without the running game until Moeaki and Albert. Granted both plays were probably flags that didn't get thrown for PI and Offsides but nonetheless

Buck
09-12-2012, 08:11 PM
I assume that people here can do simple math and simple logic.

Perhaps asking too much?

Well some of us are on a cell phone and can't watch the video, and have no idea what it says.

You voluntarily posted cliff notes that said 27/33 shotgun snaps were passes.

When I see that, I think, "so what?"

If you're going to post cliff-notes, be thorough.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:12 PM
Well, let's see.

We were down 20-17 and 27-17.

It's acceptable, especially with Casshole as your QB, to keep running a balanced offense in these situations.

During that time period:

6 carries, 10 yards.

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:13 PM
I don't think this is on cassel. But it might be an indication of why Atlanta looked like they were reading our playbook in the second half. This concerns me about daboll.

Let's be honest, Cassel was carving shit up in the 1st half. I think RAC has already stated that they stuck with the plan since it was working. Even with the defensive adjustments Atlanta made Cassel was still moving the ball.

Perhaps Daboll should have made some adjustments but when what you had been doing was working I am not sure what you are going to adjust?

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Want to see something even scarier than this trend?

If you recorded the game, go back and listen to Cassel's cadence. Listen to it on every play in which it is audible.

Please expound, not going back and watching any more of this shit game.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-12-2012, 08:13 PM
It is something worth paying attention to. That's not a very healthy run to pass ratio on under center snaps. Not about to flip a lid, but will be watching close.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Soooo Daboll is a moran?

I think Duhball realizes Cassel isn't very good from under center.

Which has been a problem since his NE days.

Papi
09-12-2012, 08:16 PM
I think Duhball realizes Cassel isn't very good from under center.

Which has been a problem since his NE days.

Season over
/CP

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:16 PM
It is something worth paying attention to. That's not a very healthy run to pass ratio on under center snaps. Not about to flip a lid, but will be watching close.

The only thing that worries me is that Daboll fears Cassel isn't very good at dropping back and is better in the shotgun. Other than that there may have very well been a reason for doing what we did.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:21 PM
Running almost every time you're under center probably does make play action more effective, though. LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-12-2012, 08:23 PM
Good point, lol.

jspchief
09-12-2012, 08:25 PM
Please expound, not going back and watching any more of this shit game.

I'm sure you can guess.

He uses the exact same count and cadence every fucking snap.

"Omaha, Omaha, hike!"

Daru
09-12-2012, 08:31 PM
I think Duhball realizes Cassel isn't very good from under center.

Which has been a problem since his NE days.

Yes his strikes have been awful since always but Daboll is OK. OK because look at scores from last season. You witness? Its increase up arrow.
Daboll presented 24 points against Falcons. That is good Daboll. Daboll already scored more that game than Chiefs did in 14 games last year you see?
24 is good for win. Bad defense and awful strikes by Cassel but thats usual always. Loss because of Cassel sucks always.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:35 PM
I'm sure you can guess.

He uses the exact same count and cadence every fucking snap.

"Omaha, Omaha, hike!"

Oh, well yeah.

Seems like that's on every fucking play, though.

Casshole should go live in Omaha and retire since he talks about it so much.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Yes his strikes have been awful since always but Daboll is OK. OK because look at scores from last season. You witness? Its increase up arrow.

Daboll presented 24 points against Falcons. That is good Daboll. Daboll already scored more that game than Chiefs did in 14 games last year you see?
24 is good for win. Bad defense and awful strikes by Cassel but thats usual always.

Loss because of Cassel sucks always.

LMAO

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:36 PM
Running almost every time you're under center probably does make play action more effective, though. LMAO

Like this ?

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Yeah, baby. Fucking DMC.

Munson
09-12-2012, 08:38 PM
I'm sure you can guess.

He uses the exact same count and cadence every ****ing snap.

"Omaha, Omaha, hike!"

I could've sworn he also said "Obama Obama" on one or two snaps.

Baconeater
09-12-2012, 08:38 PM
Yes his strikes have been awful since always but Daboll is OK. OK because look at scores from last season. You witness? Its increase up arrow.
Daboll presented 24 points against Falcons. That is good Daboll. Daboll already scored more that game than Chiefs did in 14 games last year you see?
24 is good for win. Bad defense and awful strikes by Cassel but thats usual always. Loss because of Cassel sucks always.
http://oi49.tinypic.com/2m60g8p.jpg

jspchief
09-12-2012, 08:38 PM
Oh, well yeah.

Seems like that's on every fucking play, though.

Casshole should go live in Omaha and retire since he talks about it so much.

Point is, when you don't change up your cadence, its easy for defenders to jump the snap.

He doesn't do it early in the game. But later when he starts pressing, he does. It's like he mentally shuts down (as if we didn't know that).

Baconeater
09-12-2012, 08:39 PM
Oh, well yeah.

Seems like that's on every fucking play, though.

Casshole should go live in Omaha and retire since he talks about it so much.
I don't want that fuckface here.

Munson
09-12-2012, 08:43 PM
Yes his strikes have been awful since always but Daboll is OK. OK because look at scores from last season. You witness? Its increase up arrow.
Daboll presented 24 points against Falcons. That is good Daboll. Daboll already scored more that game than Chiefs did in 14 games last year you see?
24 is good for win. Bad defense and awful strikes by Cassel but thats usual always. Loss because of Cassel sucks always.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9cgoc4Vfe1revsmeo1_500.gif

petegz28
09-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Yes his strikes have been awful since always but Daboll is OK. OK because look at scores from last season. You witness? Its increase up arrow.
Daboll presented 24 points against Falcons. That is good Daboll. Daboll already scored more that game than Chiefs did in 14 games last year you see?
24 is good for win. Bad defense and awful strikes by Cassel but thats usual always. Loss because of Cassel sucks always.

I agree 24 should be a win. We probably needed to score and should have scored a little more but as you state, when the defense never stops the other team it's rather moot

threebag02
09-12-2012, 09:27 PM
You didn't post the number of passes from under center at all.

Those are screen passes that are intercepted.

Iconic
09-12-2012, 09:44 PM
It's pretty evident what this implies... Cassel can't pass worth shit under center and Daboll realizes that. It's one of the reasons why Cassel was so successful in New England with McDaniels. Almost all his snaps where in shotgun formation in his 'breakout' year with the Pats. Unless our running game becomes hindered by this; I'm not going to worry about it.

L.A. Chieffan
09-12-2012, 10:01 PM
It always seems pretty obvious to me what type of play is going to be run just based on formation and personnel. The key is being able to execute even when they know what your running.

Discuss Thrower
09-12-2012, 10:06 PM
As long as it won't be as obvious as that stupid moose horn call from last year... Even I picked up on that.

nychief
09-12-2012, 10:11 PM
Me football genius... Me have calculator... Me have too much time on hands... Me no she football fan....Me touch self...... Even sky sad for hulk....

TheGuardian
09-12-2012, 10:15 PM
"Chiefs got behind and they started passing a lot. It was obvious they were going to pass, I mean the calls were so telegraphed once they got down by several scores."

Thanks for that knowledge bomb, captain obvious.

Chiefs=Good
09-12-2012, 10:18 PM
This is stupid. How many teams run often out of the gun? Im happy with daboll. Its our qb im worried about..

cdcox
09-12-2012, 10:24 PM
It's not normal for 28 of 34 of your under center snaps being run plays.

In terms of telegraphing plays, this is the real headline. Just horrible.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 10:50 PM
Unless our running game becomes hindered by this; I'm not going to worry about it.

Our running game was not good Sunday against ATL.

L.A. Chieffan
09-12-2012, 10:57 PM
Loss because of Cassel sucks always.

Thats funny shit right there.

Iconic
09-12-2012, 11:21 PM
Our running game was not good Sunday against ATL.

It wasn't bad either. We are ranked 5th in rushing yards right now. Irregardless, there were to many variables affecting Sundays game to come to any sort of conclusion. I'll give it two more games to see if the Offense was a result of situation or Cassel just sucking.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2012, 11:27 PM
It wasn't bad either.

It was a complete mirage.

Charles and Hillis had 23 carries.

5 of them were worth a shit.

Go and look at the game log.

Cassel struggled in the second half because we didn't run the ball well, especially on the first two possessions.

aturnis
09-13-2012, 12:21 AM
In terms of telegraphing plays, this is the real headline. Just horrible.

Maybe this is why Crennel threw a clipboard at Daboll...

:shrug:

Fairplay
09-13-2012, 12:56 AM
Could our defense be a reason why the Chiefs lost? We were playing catch-up.

NJChiefsFan
09-13-2012, 03:33 AM
Cassel struggled in the second half because we didn't run the ball well, especially on the first two possessions.

That is true. Statistically they looked good enough, but if the bad plays are in the wrong spots it really doesn't matter. The way the defense was playing, there was no good spot to have bad rushing series. Especially when the end result of not being able to rush the ball is the team being Cassel'ed.

T-post Tom
09-13-2012, 04:13 AM
Uhh...I would say that's the normal ratio for shotgun snaps. Plus when playing from behind means you're gonna pass it more.

This.

Guru
09-13-2012, 04:29 AM
Oh, well yeah.

Seems like that's on every ****ing play, though.

Casshole should go live in Omaha and retire since he talks about it so much.

Bugeater better get that shotgun out.

Guru
09-13-2012, 04:30 AM
I don't want that ****face here.

:LOL:

htismaqe
09-13-2012, 08:02 AM
33 snaps out of shotgun

27 were passes

Better fix that, Brian Duhball.

He can't run it out of the shotgun. When Haley did that, everybody cried that he was a moron.

CoMoChief
09-13-2012, 08:17 AM
It was a tale of 2 halves.

1st half we ran the ball well, and Cassel played well also. 2nd half ATL adjusted and was able to stop our running game, we made no adjustments offensively, and forced us to be one dimensional as they continued to expand their lead, we were forced to have Cassel win the game for us and we all know how that usually turns out.

This is why in today's NFL you need a franchise QB, one that can carry a team when the other things on offense don't go right.

Ace Gunner
09-13-2012, 08:22 AM
1) If Haley were still here, they would have run the ball and kept the QB under center no matter what the score is.

2) This offense is based in a run attack which opens play action, so if you are going shotgun in this system, you are running another offense altogether and if you are fail with that, well, you have lost your way.

Fritz88
09-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I saw Cassel's interception at the beginning of the fourth quarter.


there is no hope.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefnj2
09-13-2012, 09:18 AM
2nd half ATL adjusted and was able to stop our running game, we made no adjustments offensively, and forced us to be one dimensional as they continued to expand their lead, we were forced to have Cassel win the game for us and we all know how that usually turns out.

.

I don't think it is fair whatsoever to blame anything in the 2nd half on Daboll.

KC's first possession of the 2nd half they take the ball from their own 20 to Atlanta's 22. They moved the ball. Unfortunately they missed the kick.

2nd drive you have the sack and fumble within the first 3 touches. Not Daboll's fault.

3rd drive they convert a first down and then the ball is off of Moeaki's hands. Not Daboll's fault.

4th drive you have the horrible Cassel pick on the 3rd play of the drive.

5th drive TD.

Sorter
09-13-2012, 10:17 AM
I'm sure you can guess.

He uses the exact same count and cadence every ****ing snap.

"Omaha, Omaha, hike!"

It is actually Omaha, Omaha, set/blue/etc., hike/go/etc. Omaha is Patriots terminology to snap the ball when the play clock is running down. You snap it on the second sound and all shifting/motion is canceled.

Mr. Laz
09-13-2012, 10:28 AM
Did anyone see the standard Haley draw ran by the Steelers over and over and over again Sunday night?
yep

Mr. Laz
09-13-2012, 10:30 AM
Maybe this is why Crennel threw a clipboard at Daboll...

:shrug:
Crennel should of hit himself in the face with a clipboard

The defense sucked shit and lost the game for us

penguinz
09-13-2012, 10:30 AM
It wasn't bad either. We are ranked 5th in rushing yards right now. Irregardless, there were to many variables affecting Sundays game to come to any sort of conclusion. I'll give it two more games to see if the Offense was a result of situation or Cassel just sucking.http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0809/facepalm-vin-diesel-demotivational-poster-1222130415.jpg

saphojunkie
09-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Run on under-center plays.
Pas on shotgun plays.

Gee, I wonder why their defense started playing so much better in the second half?

If Crennel and Daboll don't turn things around, and I mean immediately, then this team is going 4-12 at best.

Rausch
09-13-2012, 11:13 AM
He can't run it out of the shotgun. When Haley did that, everybody cried that he was a moron.

Because he was.

And it's fucking stupid...

htismaqe
09-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Because he was.

And it's ****ing stupid...

Al Saunders did it too.

Good coordinators mix it up.

TEX
09-13-2012, 11:51 AM
Run on under-center plays.
Pas on shotgun plays.

Gee, I wonder why their defense started playing so much better in the second half?

If Crennel and Daboll don't turn things around, and I mean immediately, then this team is going 4-12 at best.

What makes you think they'll do it in KC? They didn't do it in Cleveland. In fact if you take each one's job performance separately, they really haven't accompliched much in the roles they're in now except for maybe a few good streaks here and there. Nothing that shows they can consistently build anything great.

It all goes back to why Pioli is a bad GM. Your HC and QB are your most important hires. He's blown both choices - and he's blown one choice twice.

HemiEd
09-13-2012, 11:54 AM
Point is, when you don't change up your cadence, its easy for defenders to jump the snap.

He doesn't do it early in the game. But later when he starts pressing, he does. It's like he mentally shuts down (as if we didn't know that).

Exactly, which probably explains why the OL didn't look as good in the second half.