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View Full Version : Football What is Jim Harbaugh doing right?


Rain Man
09-17-2012, 12:13 PM
He has a quarterback who's not the most skilled guy in the world.

He's got some high draft picks in the front seven on defense.

His best player is an inside linebacker.

He's got a pretty good running back.

He's got a very good wide receiver who's not the most savvy guy on the block. (You can apply that to either Crabtree or Moss, I suspect.)



Is this sounding familiar? And if so, why are the 49ers winning while the Chiefs are...the Chiefs? What's he doing differently?

L.A. Chieffan
09-17-2012, 12:14 PM
He knows what hes doing and hes not shoving brisket in to his mouth 24/7?

Dave Lane
09-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Scott Pioli and lackey Romeo Crennel

lcarus
09-17-2012, 12:17 PM
His team is good in the trenches on both sides of the ball. You can do basically anything when your offensive and defensive lines are dominant. The Chiefs lines basically suck.

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 12:17 PM
He has a quarterback who's not the most skilled guy in the world.

He's got some high draft picks in the front seven on defense.

His best player is an inside linebacker.

He's got a pretty good running back.

He's got a very good wide receiver who's not the most savvy guy on the block. (You can apply that to either Crabtree or Moss, I suspect.)



Is this sounding familiar? And if so, why are the 49ers winning while the Chiefs are...the Chiefs? What's he doing differently?

Its early, but he appears to be a young Schottenheimer.

Dave Lane
09-17-2012, 12:17 PM
If Pioli doesn't spend the last year trying to undermine a coach and worked with him trying to take some chances with a up and coming team, we aren't having this discussion.

I was thrilled with the Pioli hire after the previous regime, but be careful what you wish for.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 12:18 PM
What's he doing differently?

First off, he comes from a family of coaches. His Dad was a coach at Western Kentucky and he interned there during his NFL offseasons. Secondly, he was a successful college and NFL QB that commanded and deserved respect.

Not only did he intern at WK, his first real head coaching gig was at San Diego, which has never been a football powerhouse. He brought in good players and they bought into his program. After a few years of success, he duplicated that model at Stanford, where he brought a "Brain" school into national attention with Andrew Luck and a solid, fundamentally sound football program.

Jed Yorke trusts him. Trent Baalke trusts him. He doesn't get involved in anything other than coaching. He's a tough guy with high expectations and players respect him because they know he's been there but also that his coaching formula works.

At the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football.

Johnny Vegas
09-17-2012, 12:18 PM
he's not about theatrics. he's about results and has an infectious personality to play hard for. the Harbaugh'llers have a coaching pedigree that breeds success.

mcaj22
09-17-2012, 12:18 PM
he's got 5 GOOD LBers

2 of the best MLBers currently in the game that never leave the field, ever. (this is a very rare combo in the NFL where two MLBers can stay on the field for every down, so it makes their pass defense more exotic and different looks in terms of coverage and blitzing. Unlike the Chiefs where for whatever fucking reason we have to drop Eric Berry as an extra safety LBer. Whoever thought thats a good idea needs to be fired.)

also have a young beast pass rusher and two very good serviceable OLBers.

and he two very good ball hawking/tackling safeties with range.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Its early, but he appears to be a young Schottenheimer.

What?

LMAO

What a fucking insult.

KC Tattoo
09-17-2012, 12:19 PM
His front 7 on D > than our front 7 on D

His defense has shown up and make those tackles which are a good way to stop the offense from advancing the ball.

His qb Alex Smith hasn't shit himself.

I just named three things for ya Rain Man.

mcaj22
09-17-2012, 12:19 PM
they have crazy blocking schemes when they run the ball as well, so many shifts and so many guys pulling and knocking guys on their ass blindly to set up those traps they like to run.

I think they carry like 5 TEs and they also put offensive lineman at TE a lot too

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 12:20 PM
First off, he comes from a family of coaches. His Dad was a coach at Western Kentucky and he interned there during his NFL offseasons. Secondly, he was a successful college and NFL QB that commanded and deserved respect.

Not only did he intern at WK, his first real head coaching gig was at San Diego, which has never been a football powerhouse. He brought in good players and they bought into his program. After a few years of success, he duplicated that model at Stanford, where he brought a "Brain" school into national attention with Andrew Luck and a solid, fundamentally sound football program.

Jed Yorke trusts him. Trent Baalke trusts him. He doesn't get involved in anything other than coaching. He's a tough guy with high expectations and players respect him because they know he's been there but also that his coaching formula works.

At the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football.

I never thought he was all the great a QB, but he was definately hard nosed and got the most out of his limited abilities. Sounds like his football teams.

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 12:20 PM
What?

LMAO

What a ****ing insult.

Thats why i said its early. He hasnt won anything yet. Marty won some playoff games early in his career too. I mainly meant they both have that same hard nosed style and their teams reflect that.

htismaqe
09-17-2012, 12:21 PM
At the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football.

Yep.

That's why the Chiefs look so bad right now. Everybody in the stadium - the fans, the players, the beer guy - knows the team is being coached by boobs and run by a GM that cares more about trivial details and being right than winning games.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 12:23 PM
Thats why i said its early. He hasnt won anything yet. Marty won some playoff games early in his career too. I mainly meant they both have that same hard nosed style and their teams reflect that.

Give me a break, Dude.

Jim Harbaugh took over San Diego University and they went 11-1 in two consecutive seasons. He took Stanford to the Orange Bowl won a BCS bowl. He successfully recruited and coached up the best quarterback prospect since Peyton Manning.

In his first season in the NFL as a head coach, he was one fumble from the Super Bowl and his team is 2-0 to start his second season.

He's nothing like a Schottemheimer, Brian, Marty or Kurt.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Its early, but he appears to be a young Schottenheimer.

When did Marty shove a coach out his way on the way out of somebody else's stadium?

Ya. That's one difference. A big difference imo. Marty was tough, but he didn't know how to win with offense, only defense.

Jim H is a former pro QB, so there's that. And if you want to know how much of an asshole he is about winning, talk with his brother, or Sean Salsbury, or Rich Gannon -- those guys know him and they damn near scrapped every day when these guys were young.

Molitoth
09-17-2012, 12:24 PM
at the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football

I agree. And Making a qb change would cause a spark.

Bowser
09-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Collinsworth last night kept pointing out how the Niners D could do so many things because their two inside linebackers don't come off the field in nickel. Apparently that is huge for the type of defense they run, not to mention those guys just don't miss tackles.

As far as their offense goes, being a former succesful QB would pay dividends with helping a guy work through his issues.

Besically, Harbaugh is just a hell of a coach.

Inmem58
09-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Without SFs defense they would be shit. Defense wins championships. We don't have a defenses, we have young guys who don't know how to keep the foot on the gas. We have quitters.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-17-2012, 12:25 PM
He has a quarterback who's not the most skilled guy in the world.

He's got some high draft picks in the front seven on defense.

His best player is an inside linebacker.

He's got a pretty good running back.

He's got a very good wide receiver who's not the most savvy guy on the block. (You can apply that to either Crabtree or Moss, I suspect.)



Is this sounding familiar? And if so, why are the 49ers winning while the Chiefs are...the Chiefs? What's he doing differently?

You forgot about all of the o-line draft picks. Also, he has leaders like Frank Gore and Patrick Willis. Those guys are vocal and produce.

Bowser
09-17-2012, 12:25 PM
I never thought he was all the great a QB, but he was definately hard nosed and got the most out of his limited abilities. Sounds like his football teams.

He was a near catch on a hail mary away from beating the Steelers and playing in the Super Bowl.

mcaj22
09-17-2012, 12:26 PM
Harbaugh literally stands in the huddle every play and calls it like he's the QB still lol

they were talking about that last night too, he's never just standing on the sidelines.

Brock
09-17-2012, 12:26 PM
He has a competitive fire and he knows how to get others to feel it too.

CoMoChief
09-17-2012, 12:29 PM
49ers have the best front 7 in football.

They have a ton of receiving weapons in the passing game and have 2 good RB's and he's been able to develop a former 1st round talent.

the Talking Can
09-17-2012, 12:30 PM
he really works the hips and gets up in there

cdcox
09-17-2012, 12:34 PM
Alex D. Smith destroyer of worlds.

KC Tattoo
09-17-2012, 12:34 PM
First off, he comes from a family of coaches. His Dad was a coach at Western Kentucky and he interned there during his NFL offseasons. Secondly, he was a successful college and NFL QB that commanded and deserved respect.

Not only did he intern at WK, his first real head coaching gig was at San Diego, which has never been a football powerhouse. He brought in good players and they bought into his program. After a few years of success, he duplicated that model at Stanford, where he brought a "Brain" school into national attention with Andrew Luck and a solid, fundamentally sound football program.

Jed Yorke trusts him. Trent Baalke trusts him. He doesn't get involved in anything other than coaching. He's a tough guy with high expectations and players respect him because they know he's been there but also that his coaching formula works.

At the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football.

His father was a mudder, his mudder was a mudder

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/mball_051987/kramer.jpg
Getty up

Sorter
09-17-2012, 12:36 PM
He's got a very good wide receiver who's not the most savvy guy on the block. (You can apply that to Moss, I suspect.)



I disagree. McDaniels, Brady, and Belichick have all remarked at how intelligent and competent Randy was. They also have said they were surprised how quickly he picked up their playbook and his own insights on defenses, coverages, and players.

Moss does stupid stuff and makes you want to yank your hair out but he's definitely not stupid. I don't know if that is what you meant by savvy (probably you meant more about his actions and personality), but in terms of practical intelligence in relation to football, Randy is top-tier by all accounts.

Sorter
09-17-2012, 12:41 PM
They tackle much better, are better in coverage on D, both safeties are excellent in run support and not bad in coverage, and they use an aggressive, 1-gap 3-4 defensive front.

IMO, you make this team play the 1-gap, draft a solid ILB talent to replace Belcher(dismal coverage skills), move Poe to DE and start Powe, you could get somewhere.

Nzoner
09-17-2012, 12:45 PM
First off, he comes from a family of coaches. His Dad was a coach at Western Kentucky and he interned there during his NFL offseasons. Secondly, he was a successful college and NFL QB that commanded and deserved respect.


Speaking of family I wonder if Pioli ever talks to his FIL Bill Parcells about football,because I'd have to think Bill is :rolleyes:

Brock
09-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Speaking of family I wonder if Pioli ever talks to his FIL Bill Parcells about football,because I'd have to think Bill is :rolleyes:

"I told you to stay in Belichick's pocket, dummy."

htismaqe
09-17-2012, 12:51 PM
They tackle much better, are better in coverage on D, both safeties are excellent in run support and not bad in coverage, and they use an aggressive, 1-gap 3-4 defensive front.

IMO, you make this team play the 1-gap, draft a solid ILB talent to replace Belcher(dismal coverage skills), move Poe to DE and start Powe, you could get somewhere.

yep

Sorter
09-17-2012, 12:51 PM
"I wish Todd was my son-in-law"

DMAC
09-17-2012, 12:57 PM
He knows what hes doing and hes not shoving brisket in to his mouth 24/7?

LMAO

Rain Man
09-17-2012, 01:02 PM
49ers starting lineup compared to Chiefs. Compare them and be fair.

QB - Alex Smith vs. Matt Cassel. Smith is better, but it's not like he's a franchise guy. He's average.

HB - Frank Gore vs. Jamaal Charles. Gore is more proven, but if Jamaal's knee is fine I'd prefer Jamaal.

FB - Bruce Miller vs. Peyton Hillis. I think that's how this comparison goes. Hillis by a mile if you want a fullback who can also run and catch.

WR - Michael Crabtree vs. Dwayne Bowe. Honestly, I think I'd prefer Bowe, but I'm fine to call this a wash. Do other people want to make an argument for Crabtree?

WR - Randy Moss vs. Steve Breaston. (Shrug.)

TE - Vernon Davis vs. Boss/Moeaki. Um...Davis. Pretty easy call.

LT - Joe Staley vs. Branden Albert. Is Staley better than Albert? They both seem like solid non-stars.

LG - Mike Iupati vs. Ryan Lilja. Iupati.

C - Jonathan Goodwin vs. Rodney Hudson. Hudson's young. Is Goodwin better right now?

RG - Alex Boone vs. Jon Asamoah. It seems like Asamoah is the better choice now, though both have a high ceiling.

RT - Anthony Davis vs. Eric Winston. Winston seems like a clear choice.

K - David Akers vs. Ryan Succop. Gotta take Akers, to be honest.

P - Andy Lee vs. Dustin Colquitt. I know nothing about Lee, other than some vague recollection that he was once the lead singer of Rush.

KR/PR - Ted Ginn vs. Javier Arenas. I like Arenas, but Ginn seems to have more big play ability.

FS - Dashon Goldson vs. Kendrick Lewis (when healthy). Goldson is a clear pick.

SS - Donte Whitner vs. Eric Berry. Berry is a clear pick.

CB - Carlos Rogers vs. Brandon Flowers. I'm loyal to Flowers if he can stay on the field.

CB - Tarrell Brown vs. Stanford Routt. I have no idea who Tarrell Brown is.

OLB - Ahmad Brooks vs. Justin Houston. I was impressed by Brooks last night. I like Houston, but Brooks looked beastly.

OLB - Aldon Smith vs. Tamba Hali. The press clippings point toward Hali, but Smith seems good.

ILB - Patrick Willis vs. Derrick Johnson. The press clippings point toward Willis, but DJ is a pro bowler.

ILB - Navorro Bowman vs. Javon Belcher. I like Belcher, but Bowman eats Honey Cinnamon Belchers for breakfast.

LDE - Ray McDonald vs. Tyson Jackson. I've never heard of either of these guys.

RDE - Justin Smith vs. Glenn Dorsey. Two high draft picks. Smith seemed to be Dorsey when he was in Cincy, but now he appears to be a guy who does it all. Smith wins.

NT - Isaac Sopoaga vs. Dontari Poe (or Anthony Toribio). Sopoaga has the experience, so he probably wins. Does Dontari have the ceiling to pass him? I would think so.


I look at the SF roster and the KC roster, and where's the big difference between a team that went to the conference championship last year and a team that's on track to go 0-17?

Bane
09-17-2012, 01:05 PM
He has one hell of a hand shake!

htismaqe
09-17-2012, 01:05 PM
I look at the SF roster and the KC roster, and where's the big difference between a team that went to the conference championship last year and a team that's on track to go 0-17?

Ah, a rhetorical question...

Bane
09-17-2012, 01:07 PM
49ers starting lineup compared to Chiefs. Compare them and be fair.

QB - Alex Smith vs. Matt Cassel. Smith is better, but it's not like he's a franchise guy. He's average.

HB - Frank Gore vs. Jamaal Charles. Gore is more proven, but if Jamaal's knee is fine I'd prefer Jamaal.

FB - Bruce Miller vs. Peyton Hillis. I think that's how this comparison goes. Hillis by a mile if you want a fullback who can also run and catch.

WR - Michael Crabtree vs. Dwayne Bowe. Honestly, I think I'd prefer Bowe, but I'm fine to call this a wash. Do other people want to make an argument for Crabtree?

WR - Randy Moss vs. Steve Breaston. (Shrug.)

TE - Vernon Davis vs. Boss/Moeaki. Um...Davis. Pretty easy call.

LT - Joe Staley vs. Branden Albert. Is Staley better than Albert? They both seem like solid non-stars.

LG - Mike Iupati vs. Ryan Lilja. Iupati.

C - Jonathan Goodwin vs. Rodney Hudson. Hudson's young. Is Goodwin better right now?

RG - Alex Boone vs. Jon Asamoah. It seems like Asamoah is the better choice now, though both have a high ceiling.

RT - Anthony Davis vs. Eric Winston. Winston seems like a clear choice.

K - David Akers vs. Ryan Succop. Gotta take Akers, to be honest.

P - Andy Lee vs. Dustin Colquitt. I know nothing about Lee, other than some vague recollection that he was once the lead singer of Rush.

KR/PR - Ted Ginn vs. Javier Arenas. I like Arenas, but Ginn seems to have more big play ability.

FS - Dashon Goldson vs. Kendrick Lewis (when healthy). Goldson is a clear pick.

SS - Donte Whitner vs. Eric Berry. Berry is a clear pick.

CB - Carlos Rogers vs. Brandon Flowers. I'm loyal to Flowers if he can stay on the field.

CB - Tarrell Brown vs. Stanford Routt. I have no idea who Tarrell Brown is.

OLB - Ahmad Brooks vs. Justin Houston. I was impressed by Brooks last night. I like Houston, but Brooks looked beastly.

OLB - Aldon Smith vs. Tamba Hali. The press clippings point toward Hali, but Smith seems good.

ILB - Patrick Willis vs. Derrick Johnson. The press clippings point toward Willis, but DJ is a pro bowler.

ILB - Navorro Bowman vs. Javon Belcher. I like Belcher, but Bowman eats Honey Cinnamon Belchers for breakfast.

LDE - Ray McDonald vs. Tyson Jackson. I've never heard of either of these guys.

RDE - Justin Smith vs. Glenn Dorsey. Two high draft picks. Smith seemed to be Dorsey when he was in Cincy, but now he appears to be a guy who does it all. Smith wins.

NT - Isaac Sopoaga vs. Dontari Poe (or Anthony Toribio). Sopoaga has the experience, so he probably wins. Does Dontari have the ceiling to pass him? I would think so.


I look at the SF roster and the KC roster, and where's the big difference between a team that went to the conference championship last year and a team that's on track to go 0-17?


Damn!:banghead: After reading that I think they'd beat us 66-0.

Rain Man
09-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Alex D. Smith destroyer of worlds.

Well, hey. Sandbox Simulations was correct, weren't they? Smith is the difference maker.

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 01:09 PM
Damn!:banghead: After reading that I think they'd beat us 66-0.

No doubt today they would. How much have thiers and our roster changed from 2 seasons ago when we whipped them? It doesnt appear to be all that much. Coaching makes all the difference in the world.

Bane
09-17-2012, 01:10 PM
No doubt today they would. How much have thiers and our roster changed from 2 seasons ago when we whipped them? It doesnt appear to be all that much. Coaching makes all the difference in the world.

:thumb:

Cephalic Trauma
09-17-2012, 01:15 PM
I never thought he was all the great a QB, but he was definately hard nosed and got the most out of his limited abilities. Sounds like his football teams.

Limited abilities on that team? I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously.

Rain Man
09-17-2012, 01:16 PM
Damn!:banghead: After reading that I think they'd beat us 66-0.

Why? In all seriousness, where do you see the big talent differences?

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 01:18 PM
Limited abilities on that team? I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously.

Hes gotten the most out of Alex Smith correct?

Sorter
09-17-2012, 01:22 PM
Why? In all seriousness, where do you see the big talent differences?

The biggest differences?

Having two ILBs who are top-tier against the run and above average in man coverage. Having DEs who are elite against the run and pass. McDonald is a damn good player. Justin Smith is a better player overall than Tamba. TO get their pass rush, they have him, McDonald, Aldon, Brooks, both Willis/Bowman are good blitzers, and they have safeties that can play in coverage, in the box, and can make plays from a 2- deep shell against the run.
Their O-line is nastier than ours.

Really, the 49ers are more talented by us, but its not like every player is an all-pro. The main differences between us and them are attitude, aggressiveness, confidence, and a physical style.

Cephalic Trauma
09-17-2012, 01:28 PM
Hes gotten the most out of Alex Smith correct?

Okay...?

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, definitely one of the best in the NFC and maybe the NFL. But they have a stacked roster. They had a ton of talent on that team that underachieved 2 years ago. The main difference is they had Mike Singletary as their coach, who was one of the worst coaches in the league.

Willis, Bowman, VD, Crabs, Gore, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith etc. are all elite players, besides crabs who's still pretty solid.

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Okay...?

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, definitely one of the best in the NFC and maybe the NFL. But they have a stacked roster. They had a ton of talent on that team that underachieved 2 years ago. The main difference is they had Mike Singletary as their coach, who was one of the worst coaches in the league.

Willis, Bowman, VD, Crabs, Gore, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith etc. are all elite players, besides crabs who's still pretty solid.

Exactly my point. They were underachieveing losers before he arrived, same place the Chiefs are at now. Alex Smith is solid and has talent, but hes not All World or anything. Harbaugh wanted to replace him with Manning during the offseason.

Cephalic Trauma
09-17-2012, 01:39 PM
Exactly my point. They were underachieveing losers before he arrived, same place the Chiefs are at now. Alex Smith is solid and has talent, but hes not All World or anything. Harbaugh wanted to replace him with Manning during the offseason.

I think their underachieving had more to do with the previous coaching being inept. They have always had the talent outside of the quarterback position, but not the coaching.

I agree with the Chiefs parallel, but I don't agree with the "limited abilities" comment. The abilities were there (like us), but the coaching wasn't.

I'll give you Alex Smith though.

the Talking Can
09-17-2012, 01:45 PM
it's hard not to see the Chiefs and 49ers as mirror images...one hires a good coach, one doesn't...voila

both sucked and stocked piled high first round picks

the question is still out about our talent though...is it just misused or overrated?

a bit of both obviously, but I think it is misused on offense and overrated on defense (specifically our front 7)

what we don't have is toughness, attitude, physicality...looking at the roster comparisons my gut response to each position was that the 49er player was somehow more physical...

could be a bias based on their recent success, could just be true

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 01:45 PM
He has a quarterback who's not the most skilled guy in the world.

He's got some high draft picks in the front seven on defense.

His best player is an inside linebacker.

He's got a pretty good running back.

He's got a very good wide receiver who's not the most savvy guy on the block. (You can apply that to either Crabtree or Moss, I suspect.)






Is this sounding familiar? And if so, why are the 49ers winning while the Chiefs are...the Chiefs? What's he doing differently?

the team is litered with hihg draft picks just like the Chiefs, but the difference he's he's a better coach than anyone you've had since Marty.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:18 PM
the team is litered with hihg draft picks just like the Chiefs, but the difference he's he's a better coach than anyone you've had since Marty.

Nah, that team has veteran leaders like Willis/Smith/Gore that are good football players. The Chiefs do not have that at all because CP either whiffed on draft choices, traded them away or lost good players that would be veterans now for this team -- guys like Jared Allen & Tony G left here because this team's future was doomed by Carl.

BIG_DADDY
09-17-2012, 02:19 PM
it's hard not to see the Chiefs and 49ers as mirror images...one hires a good coach, one doesn't...voila

both sucked and stocked piled high first round picks

the question is still out about our talent though...is it just misused or overrated?

a bit of both obviously, but I think it is misused on offense and overrated on defense (specifically our front 7)

what we don't have is toughness, attitude, physicality...looking at the roster comparisons my gut response to each position was that the 49er player was somehow more physical...

could be a bias based on their recent success, could just be true

Everyone became much tougher since Harbaugh took over. Singletary preached about toughness but Harbaugh actually got it. The first thing I would say about Harbaugh is that he is not a players coach. The second thing I would say is the players believe he can take them to the big dance. That belief got much stronger with their instant success and the rest is history. The Chiefs once again have hired a players coach in Crennel that is fucking up the team the same way Herm did. Nobody believes in him and there is no accountability. The Chiefs are not even in football shape which is why we look like we are moving in slow motion. YOu would think we would have learned from Herm but apparently not.

BIG_DADDY
09-17-2012, 02:21 PM
Nah, that team has veteran leaders like Willis/Smith/Gore that are good football players. The Chiefs do not have that at all because CP either whiffed on draft choices, traded them away or lost good players that would be veterans now for this team -- guys like Jared Allen & Tony G left here because this team's future was doomed by Carl.

Willis is great, Gore is decent and Smith is just OK. I have no idea what you are talking about. YOu put Harbaugh in here last offseason we have a completely different team.

Brock
09-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Willis is great, Gore is decent and Smith is just OK. I have no idea what you are talking about. YOu put Harbaugh in here last offseason we have a completely different team.

Smith isn't just okay. Either one of them.

EDIT: I'm referring to the defensive players. It took me a minute to even think about their QB.

Pestilence
09-17-2012, 02:24 PM
He utilizes a defense that attacks instead of sitting back and giving the offense 5-6 yards a play.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:24 PM
Willis is great, Gore is decent and Smith is just OK. I have no idea what you are talking about. YOu put Harbaugh in here last offseason we have a completely different team.

Certainly you do, but not a team like the 9ers. You would have a better POS and that is all. Harbaugh would throw guys like DJ & Dorsey out on the street personally and that my friend is the point that went over your head..

Deberg_1990
09-17-2012, 02:26 PM
The Chiefs do not have that at all because CP either whiffed on draft choices, traded them away or lost good players that would be veterans now for this team -- guys like Jared Allen & Tony G left here because this team's future was doomed by Carl.

Sorry, im not going to blame this years lack of success on moves made 3 or 4 years ago.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 02:27 PM
Certainly you do, but not a team like the 9ers. You would have a better POS and that is all. Harbaugh would throw guys like DJ & Dorsey out on the street personally and that my friend is the point that went over your head..

If he were like that then he would have dumped Alex Smith, IMO.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:28 PM
He utilizes a defense that attacks instead of sitting back and giving the offense 5-6 yards a play.

It is so you to miss the all out blitz plays the Chiefs used yesterday. Like 50 blitzes you missed. But hey, I have come to expect that crap from you.

htismaqe
09-17-2012, 02:29 PM
If he were like that then he would have dumped Alex Smith, IMO.

Exactly.

Harbaugh would take guys like DJ and Dorsey and \

1) use them correctly and
2) demand accountability from them

He makes guys like DJ better.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:29 PM
If he were like that then he would have dumped Alex Smith, IMO.

Smith has some tools. He's just an airhead like DJ, but not near as football stupid.

Anyway, I see you are another fan that thinks good QB's are in abundance on planet retard.

Chocolate Hog
09-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Harbaughs offense is able to exploit mismatches.

The defense is good at mixing it up between coverages and blitzing. It takes team forever to score on them.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:33 PM
Harbaughs offense is able to exploit mismatches.

The defense is good at mixing it up between coverages and blitzing. It takes team forever to score on them.

That's because if his guys don't execute he will. Execute them.

Sorter
09-17-2012, 02:34 PM
Willis is great, Gore is decent and Smith is just OK. I have no idea what you are talking about. YOu put Harbaugh in here last offseason we have a completely different team.

You think Justin Smith is just ok?

Brock
09-17-2012, 02:38 PM
You think Justin Smith is just ok?

Alex Smith.

Sorter
09-17-2012, 02:42 PM
Awesome. That is a relief.

Psyko Tek
09-17-2012, 02:48 PM
so the chiefs are fucked for another 5 years?

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:49 PM
Alex Smith.

I was referring to Justin Smith. Sorry for the confusion, I figured everyone knew he's a good veteran player for the niners.

Really, look around at this league now.

How many QB's have been drafted top 10 over the past 15 years that are not very good at this level? A ton of "Vince Young" types.

College has switched to a different game and the NFL is changing with it. Yet these players are not getting better coming out of college, they are getting worse and so is the NFL.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-17-2012, 02:50 PM
I like Harbaugh. He's one of my favorite coaches. I think he coached Alex Smith up but that's about it. It's speculation to think he could coach up guys like DJ imo. It reminds of when they replaced Spikes with Bowman. It's time to cut the cord imo. We just need someone who knows what they are doing.

tooge
09-17-2012, 02:52 PM
He is fiery, intense, and not afraid to get in anyones face, but he also does it professionally. Todd Haley had the same fire but lacked the professionalism and never played the game and couldn't play well with others. Crennell has the knowledge, but a lack of a fiery intense coach and is simply too nice.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:54 PM
Sorry, im not going to blame this years lack of success on moves made 3 or 4 years ago.
LMAO

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-17-2012, 02:55 PM
He is fiery, intense, and not afraid to get in anyones face, but he also does it professionally. Todd Haley had the same fire but lacked the professionalism and never played the game and couldn't play well with others. Crennell has the knowledge, but a lack of a fiery intense coach and is simply too nice.

That's a good point. I think alot of these coaches like Harabaugh and Fisher for example will get in the refs face. They will show some fire at times but they don't belittle their own players on the field. I think those days are gone. It happens in the locker room or not at all.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:56 PM
I like Harbaugh. He's one of my favorite coaches. I think he coached Alex Smith up but that's about it. It's speculation to think he could coach up guys like DJ imo. It reminds of when they replaced Spikes with Bowman. It's time to cut the cord imo. We just need someone who knows what they are doing.

I notice the DJ crowd didn't play the "He's hurted" card this week:D

ThaVirus
09-17-2012, 02:57 PM
Okay...?

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, definitely one of the best in the NFC and maybe the NFL. But they have a stacked roster. They had a ton of talent on that team that underachieved 2 years ago. The main difference is they had Mike Singletary as their coach, who was one of the worst coaches in the league.

Willis, Bowman, VD, Crabs, Gore, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith etc. are all elite players, besides crabs who's still pretty solid.

Crabtree is not elite; far from actually..

Other than that I agree.

Spongeblack Bobtard
09-17-2012, 02:58 PM
I notice the DJ crowd didn't play the "He's hurted" card this week:D

Yep... :toast:

It really is to bad we wound up with Haley instead of someone like Harabaugh. Things could really be different right now. Herm wasted our time, Haley wasted our time, and Crennel is wasting our time.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 02:59 PM
He is fiery, intense, and not afraid to get in anyones face, but he also does it professionally. Todd Haley had the same fire but lacked the professionalism and never played the game and couldn't play well with others. Crennell has the knowledge, but a lack of a fiery intense coach and is simply too nice.

Ya, because every team is the same right? No.

The difference is the niners have a talented veteran team and the Chiefs don't. They have idiot veterans like DJ & Dorsey leading the 60 zillion points allowed regime.

Setsuna
09-17-2012, 03:01 PM
Colin Kapernick is going to win a Superbowl before the Chiefs win a playoff game. Any objections to that prediction?

Sorter
09-17-2012, 03:03 PM
I was referring to Justin Smith. Sorry for the confusion, I figured everyone knew he's a good veteran player for the niners.

Really, look around at this league now.

How many QB's have been drafted top 10 over the past 15 years that are not very good at this level? A ton of "Vince Young" types.

College has switched to a different game and the NFL is changing with it. Yet these players are not getting better coming out of college, they are getting worse and so is the NFL.

Wait a minute, so you do actually think that Justin Smith isn't elite?

tooge
09-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Ya, because every team is the same right? No.

The difference is the niners have a talented veteran team and the Chiefs don't. They have idiot veterans like DJ & Dorsey leading the 60 zillion points allowed regime.

I completely disagree. Alex Smith is good. Not great, but good. Some of their o and d line guys are good. some of the secondary is good. the difference is they are taking on the persona of the head coach and playing a very intense and diciplined brand of football.
The chiefs have some very good players and a few great ones like Hali. Most of the team is playing an uninspired, slow, non intense brand of football. Just like their head coach.

Have you heard Crennel do pressers? Gimme a break. It sounds like kindergarden story time. "well, they played a hard game but lost. We were very sad about it. We got to the endzone and tried soooo hard but fumbled, so we were sad about that too. We scored two touchdowns at the end which made us more happy, but we still lost so we were still sad"
Now watch Harbaughs presser. The guy looks so intense he's comin out of his skin. The level of passion and intensity is night and day.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Speaking of family I wonder if Pioli ever talks to his FIL Bill Parcells about football,because I'd have to think Bill is :rolleyes:

Parcells track record of personnel is far from impressive. He's the type of guy that always went with vets and "his" guys, i.e. trading for Curtis Martin when with the Jets, always using the same coaches at each stop, etc.

He essentially destroyed Miami and didn't do anything in Dallas.

Brock
09-17-2012, 03:23 PM
"well, they played a hard game but lost. We were very sad about it. We got to the endzone and tried soooo hard but fumbled, so we were sad about that too. We scored two touchdowns at the end which made us more happy, but we still lost so we were still sad"


LMAO

Rain Man
09-17-2012, 03:27 PM
So who are the five biggest stars on our team, and who are the five biggest on their team? By biggest stars, I guess I mean the top players, not the biggest names.

I would give them:

Patrick Willis
Justin Smith
Navorro Bowman
Vernon Davis
Frank Gore?

I would give us

Jamaal Charles
Tamba Hali
Derrick Johnson
Brandon Flowers
Dwayne Bowe

I don't think our top five is significantly below their top five, and we have more players at "impact positions". What the heck are we doing wrong?

(And by 'we', I mean you, of course. I'm a longtime 49ers fan.)

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 03:30 PM
Parcells track record of personnel is far from impressive. He's the type of guy that always went with vets and "his" guys, i.e. trading for Curtis Martin when with the Jets, always using the same coaches at each stop, etc.

He essentially destroyed Miami and didn't do anything in Dallas.

Tony Romo? Jason Whitten? Demarcus Ware? Jay Ratliff?

Ya. Nothing.

Sorter
09-17-2012, 03:35 PM
Well, Smith is better than Tamba. Willis> DJ. Bowman is significantly> Belcher. Carlos Rogers is comparable with Flowers. Crabtree is comparable with Bowe. Charles (when healthy) is better than Gore IMO.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:37 PM
Tony Romo? Jason Whitten? Demarcus Ware? Jay Ratliff?

Ya. Nothing.

Um, he didn't run the personnel department in Dallas, Dumbass. That would be Jerry & Steven Jones.

He was told implicitly before he was hired that he'd have no input into personnel.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 03:38 PM
I completely disagree. Alex Smith is good. Not great, but good. Some of their o and d line guys are good. some of the secondary is good. the difference is they are taking on the persona of the head coach and playing a very intense and diciplined brand of football.
The chiefs have some very good players and a few great ones like Hali. Most of the team is playing an uninspired, slow, non intense brand of football. Just like their head coach.

Have you heard Crennel do pressers? Gimme a break. It sounds like kindergarden story time. "well, they played a hard game but lost. We were very sad about it. We got to the endzone and tried soooo hard but fumbled, so we were sad about that too. We scored two touchdowns at the end which made us more happy, but we still lost so we were still sad"
Now watch Harbaughs presser. The guy looks so intense he's comin out of his skin. The level of passion and intensity is night and day.

Man. That is a long list of "good" you put together. No. The two teams are so far apart talent wise, comparing them is pointless.

But you are correct -- that talented niner team is playing hard for him.

I understand this team quit playing yesterday, any fool could see that. But they played hard first half and Crennel blitzed like I've never seen him do, but this team did nothing.

The Chiefs are said to "be good at stopping the run" yet Spiller put up a ton of yards on them from the very start.

This team has very lil talent. They lack veteran talent badly. Other than DJ and Colquitt, they don't have veteran players. And those two guys are not leading anything worth mentioning.

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 03:39 PM
Um, he didn't run the personnel department in Dallas, Dumbass. That would be Jerry & Steven Jones.

He was told implicitly before he was hired that he'd have no input into personnel.

Really? link? you fool.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:40 PM
This team has very lil talent. They lack veteran talent badly. Other than DJ and Colquitt, they don't have veteran players. And those two guys are not leading anything worth mentioning.

LMAO

Did you get home from school early and steal mommy's laptop?

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:40 PM
Really? link? you fool.

LMAO

Link what, Dumbass? It was almost a decade ago. Try to keep up.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Really? link? you fool.


Here's just ONE example, Genius. Next time, Google for yourself, Douchelord.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120811-former-cowboys-scout-jerry-jones-had-to-fight-bill-parcells-before-drafting-demarcus-ware.ece

Former Dallas Cowboys scout Larry Lacewell was recently on The Dallas Cowboys Show. Here are some highlights:

On if he gets in heated discussions about players with Jerry Jones:

“Yes we do. Everybody thinks Jerry makes decisions off the top of his head. That’s wrong. Jerry listens to everybody. He listens to a group of people like the scouting department and coaches. He really does. Then, he has to make the final decision. He doesn’t just say well, we’ll take (DeMarcus) Ware. He had to fight Bill Parcells on taking Ware. Bill didn’t want Ware. Things like that are his final decisions.”

ChiefsCountry
09-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Colin Kapernick is going to win a Superbowl before the Chiefs win a playoff game. Any objections to that prediction?

No he won't. 2nd round picks don't win Super Bowls.

ChiefsCountry
09-17-2012, 03:46 PM
Parcells track record of personnel is far from impressive. He's the type of guy that always went with vets and "his" guys, i.e. trading for Curtis Martin when with the Jets, always using the same coaches at each stop, etc.

He essentially destroyed Miami and didn't do anything in Dallas.

Parcells is a fat overrated piece of shit. He has never won shit without Bill Belichick on his staff.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 03:47 PM
Parcells is a fat overrated piece of shit. He has never won shit without Bill Belichick on his staff.

Exactly. And he doesn't belong in the Pro Football Hall of Fame but he'll get there due to East Coast Media Bias.

Coughlin deserves it way more, as does Belichick.

DonTellMeShowMe
09-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Assembled a great coaching staff
Inherited some damn good players
Has his team bought in, they would run through a wall for Harbs (hell I would too)
Wants to win, simple as that, doesn't care about anything else

vailpass
09-17-2012, 03:57 PM
First off, he comes from a family of coaches. His Dad was a coach at Western Kentucky and he interned there during his NFL offseasons. Secondly, he was a successful college and NFL QB that commanded and deserved respect.

Not only did he intern at WK, his first real head coaching gig was at San Diego, which has never been a football powerhouse. He brought in good players and they bought into his program. After a few years of success, he duplicated that model at Stanford, where he brought a "Brain" school into national attention with Andrew Luck and a solid, fundamentally sound football program.

Jed Yorke trusts him. Trent Baalke trusts him. He doesn't get involved in anything other than coaching. He's a tough guy with high expectations and players respect him because they know he's been there but also that his coaching formula works.

At the NFL level, confidence is 90% of football.

Good answer.

vailpass
09-17-2012, 04:00 PM
If he were like that then he would have dumped Alex Smith, IMO.

He would have if his play for Peyton had paid off.

Setsuna
09-17-2012, 04:06 PM
No he won't. 2nd round picks don't win Super Bowls.

You don't think Harbaugh is that good of a coach?

DonTellMeShowMe
09-17-2012, 04:20 PM
No he won't. 2nd round picks don't win Super Bowls.

Ken Stabler disagrees....

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 04:27 PM
Here's just ONE example, Genius. Next time, Google for yourself, Douchelord.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120811-former-cowboys-scout-jerry-jones-had-to-fight-bill-parcells-before-drafting-demarcus-ware.ece

Former Dallas Cowboys scout Larry Lacewell was recently on The Dallas Cowboys Show. Here are some highlights:

On if he gets in heated discussions about players with Jerry Jones:

“Yes we do. Everybody thinks Jerry makes decisions off the top of his head. That’s wrong. Jerry listens to everybody. He listens to a group of people like the scouting department and coaches. He really does. Then, he has to make the final decision. He doesn’t just say well, we’ll take (DeMarcus) Ware. He had to fight Bill Parcells on taking Ware. Bill didn’t want Ware. Things like that are his final decisions.”

Oh, gosh. Well, we can scratch one name from that list. Wow.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 04:30 PM
Oh, gosh. Well, we can scratch one name from that list. Wow.

Apology accepted, Captain Needa

Ace Gunner
09-17-2012, 04:46 PM
Apology accepted, Captain Needa

Well, I can see you looked at that as your desperation victory so I wasn't going to let you know that article proves my point that Parcells has say in personnel -- even when paired with a fine owner and good talent evaluator in JJ.

But keeping reaching for blame with the Chiefs staff because I haven't seen many of you who know how poor your talent has been for so many years. Decades, really.

DaneMcCloud
09-17-2012, 04:50 PM
Well, I can see you looked at that as your desperation victory so I wasn't going to let you know that article proves my point that Parcells has say in personnel -- even when paired with a fine owner and good talent evaluator in JJ.

Desparation? What kind of inbred fucktard are you?

Parcells DESTROYED the Miami Dolphins. He didn't do DICK for the Jets, other than trade for Curtis Martin and draft a feeble armed Chad Pennington, whose body could barely withstand the game. He had NO role in personnel with the Giants (George Young, thank you) and no say in Dallas.

But keeping reaching for blame with the Chiefs staff because I haven't seen many of you who know how poor your talent has been for so many years. Decades, really.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Do you think that I, me personally, haven't criticized the Chiefs front office for more than a decade on Chiefsplanet? Do you think that I wanted Scott Pioli or Matt Cassel or Tyson Jackson?

You need a history lesson, son. And after you're finished researching, go fuck yourself.

Sully
09-17-2012, 07:45 PM
I don't know how much this has to do with Harbaugh, but...
As many of you know, I coach HS football. I'm in my fifth year, and took two years off, during which I still had contact with many coaches of all levels, and continued to go to coaching clinics whenever time and budget allowed.
As far as I can tell, there are three types of coaches; the hot-head screamer, who will dog cuss every player on the field, the "arm around the shoulder" guy, who wants to just be buddies with all the players, and the guy who is smart enough to build relationships with his players, and understand which ones respond better to which type.
It's my opinion that any of the three can succeed, but the very best is the guy who doesn't treat every situation the same. Bill Parcells always said he doesn't treat all players equally, and I love that mindset. It wasn't till halfway through my second year, as I was ripping an OT on the sideline for making the same mistake for the 30th time that it really sunk in. I looked in the kid's eyes and realized he was scared out of his mind. Not only was he playing poorly, but then he had to come to the sideline and hear my fatass ripping him till the next series. I finally pulled him aside quietly and asked him if he felt like he was drowning, and he did. I began, for that kid, being the "arm around the shoulder" guy, and he improved almost immediately into one of my better OL. On the same team, I had a kid who would only respond to me crawling up in his ass, and I had to adjust and be that coach for that kid.
There's a team psyche, as well, that a good coach knows how to work with and manipulate. Sometimes the team as a whole needs to be either or both of my first two "types."
I think Haley, ultimately being the coaching equivalent to Cassell (in that he had no playing experience), relied too much on one type. My fear is that Crennel is too much the other type, due to the fact that he's always had a stronger guy ahead of him on the staff.
Harbaugh played. He played under Ditka, where we all remember the fights on the sidelines, and I believe he played for Jim Mora, who came across as a hot head.
Coming from an old school background, it's my guess that being the hard-ass comes easy. He's seen it, and felt it. But I also believe his experience taught him that sometimes you're the "other guy" as well. Not following him that closely, but just knowing his background, I'd be willing to bet he's a good mix of the two first types.

All that said, talent and Xs and Os play a huge part, too. So I'm not saying its all about personality.
But if I'm hiring a HC, one of the primary things I'm looking at is how he treats his players. "Players Coach" "Non players Coach," I'd much rather have a guy who can be both, depending on the situation.

JASONSAUTO
09-17-2012, 07:53 PM
Good post sully
Posted via Mobile Device

Pitt Gorilla
09-17-2012, 08:00 PM
He's got two Mizzou grads starting on D and a #1 overall pick QB. Perhaps that is what it takes.

If only Matt Ryan had gone #1 overall, the Falcons could be right there with them (with Spoon and Moore on D).

DJ's left nut
09-17-2012, 08:51 PM
They tackle much better, are better in coverage on D, both safeties are excellent in run support and not bad in coverage, and they use an aggressive, 1-gap 3-4 defensive front.

IMO, you make this team play the 1-gap, draft a solid ILB talent to replace Belcher(dismal coverage skills), move Poe to DE and start Powe, you could get somewhere.

That's a HUGE distinction.

Harbaugh doesn't play this bullshit, gutless 2-gap scheme that neuters the emotional leaders on your defense and by extension your entire team.

Oh it's not the biggest reason (that would be the fact that Smith is actually a 'game manager' whereas Cassel just blows), but it's a big one in its own right. As is the fact that Romeo leads like I can imagine your kindly old grandfather would. Harbaugh leads like your grandfather would...if your grandfather was George S. Patton.

58-4ever
09-17-2012, 08:54 PM
Patrick Willis for President.

Inmem58
09-17-2012, 08:56 PM
Patrick Willis for President.

I had that on my FB status last night, just sayin