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Swanman
09-18-2012, 01:12 PM
You're right, it wasn't pointed at you.

I don't really understand your class resentment though. I know you're not poor yourself, and that you're educated, which in some ways makes it even harder to understand.

Simple. I grew up lower-middle class. Closer to working poor than upper middle class. I know how tough it can get. So while I busted my ass to get where I am, I know where I came from.

patteeu
09-18-2012, 01:13 PM
LMAO

"I really can't understand why everyone doesn't think exactly as I do!"

/Pat

Is the fact that someone was born into a wealthy family a showstopper for you when it comes to casting your vote? Don't you have any difficulty understanding that mentality?

patteeu
09-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Simple. I grew up lower-middle class. Closer to working poor than upper middle class. I know how tough it can get. So while I busted my ass to get where I am, I know where I came from.

I'm sorry for your scars.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 01:17 PM
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/watch-full-secret-video-private-romney-fundraiser


On Monday and Tuesday Mother Jones published exclusive video (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser) that captured Mitt Romney speaking to donors at a May 17 fundraiser, which was held at the home of private equity mogul Mark Leder (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/romney-secret-video-marc-leder-sex-parties). Responding to a question about the "Palestinian problem," Romney said peace in the Middle East is not possible (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/romney-secret-video-israeli-palestinian-middle-east-peace) and a Palestinian state is not feasible, telling donors that Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish."

At another point, the GOP presidential nominee told attendees of this $50,000-a-plate dinner that 47 percent of Americans—those who back President Obama—are "victims" who are "dependent upon government" and "pay no income tax." He noted: "My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." These comments set off a media firestorm and generated headlines around the world (http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2012/09/secret-romney-videos-media-roundup).

Romney's remarks, denigrating nearly half of the electorate, sent the Romney campaign—already roiled by infighting (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81280.html)—into panic mode. The campaign hastily convened a late-night press conference (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/obama-campaign-responds-mojos-romney-scoop-shocking) to address his controversial statements (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/how-the-romney-campaign-scrambled-to-respond-to-secret-video/?hp), and Romney stood by his "off the cuff" comments, while conceding that they were "not elegantly stated." He claimed his comments where merely a "snippet" and not the "full response." That was not true; his comments were shown in full. He added, "I hope the person who has the video would put out the full material."

Romney is not the only one who has called for the release of the full 49-minute video. And we're more than happy to oblige. The complete video demonstrates that Romney was not snippetized and that he was captured raw and uncut. Here it is, in two parts:

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mUEHpc6JKw8?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rBj0joyCeag?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

jettio
09-18-2012, 01:18 PM
To make up for this, Romney has promised to change the title of his campaign book No Apology.

The new title is Not Elegantly Stated.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 01:19 PM
Is the fact that someone was born into a wealthy family a showstopper for you when it comes to casting your vote? Don't you have any difficulty understanding that mentality?

Absolutely not.

Although it would help if the person running for the highest office in the Land didn't continually alienate and insult his potential constituents.

Detoxing
09-18-2012, 01:19 PM
He didn't alienate any swing voters. You're not a swing voter. That's just something you tell yourself so you don't feel like a captive of the democrat party. Eventually, you'll weigh your choices and think real hard about it before inevitably pulling the lever for the democrat in the end.

Actually, i've already decided that i'm not voting for either party until they can give me something worth voting for.

I prefer not wasting my time on idiots like Romney or failures like Obama.

But go ahead and keep painting me as the enemy just because i won't blindly vote for some detached rich guy who doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

vailpass
09-18-2012, 01:19 PM
I'm sorry for your scars.

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 01:20 PM
i won't blindly vote for some detached rich guy who doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

He doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut because he's used to speaking to a captive audience.

vailpass
09-18-2012, 01:21 PM
[URL]motherjones.com



Stopped reading right here.

Detoxing
09-18-2012, 01:23 PM
Simple. I grew up lower-middle class. Closer to working poor than upper middle class. I know how tough it can get. So while I busted my ass to get where I am, I know where I came from.

Similar here. I grew up as a homeless kid for most my life. I know what it's like to be in need.

I ran away when i was 15 and have been self sustaining ever since. I never even had a family member to loan me a word of encouragement, let alone a dollar. I know what it's like to have to earn everything i have. I can identify with both parties.

I just wish one would step up to the plate and give me something to be excited about.

Swanman
09-18-2012, 01:25 PM
Is the fact that someone was born into a wealthy family a showstopper for you when it comes to casting your vote? Don't you have any difficulty understanding that mentality?

Not at all. But they need to be honest about where they came from. Romney obviously shouldn't be apologetic but he shouldn't prance around and talk about how he identifies with the middle class.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Not at all. But they need to be honest about where they came from. Romney obviously shouldn't be apologetic but he shouldn't prance around and talk about how he identifies with the middle class.

Well, his yearly allowance in elementary school was $225,000 dollars, so he somewhat identifies with their pain.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 01:28 PM
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/watch-full-secret-video-private-romney-fundraiser


On Monday and Tuesday Mother Jones published exclusive video (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser) that captured Mitt Romney speaking to donors at a May 17 fundraiser, which was held at the home of private equity mogul Mark Leder (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/romney-secret-video-marc-leder-sex-parties). Responding to a question about the "Palestinian problem," Romney said peace in the Middle East is not possible (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/romney-secret-video-israeli-palestinian-middle-east-peace) and a Palestinian state is not feasible, telling donors that Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish."

At another point, the GOP presidential nominee told attendees of this $50,000-a-plate dinner that 47 percent of Americans—those who back President Obama—are "victims" who are "dependent upon government" and "pay no income tax." He noted: "My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." These comments set off a media firestorm and generated headlines around the world (http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2012/09/secret-romney-videos-media-roundup).

Romney's remarks, denigrating nearly half of the electorate, sent the Romney campaign—already roiled by infighting (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81280.html)—into panic mode. The campaign hastily convened a late-night press conference (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/09/obama-campaign-responds-mojos-romney-scoop-shocking) to address his controversial statements (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/how-the-romney-campaign-scrambled-to-respond-to-secret-video/?hp), and Romney stood by his "off the cuff" comments, while conceding that they were "not elegantly stated." He claimed his comments where merely a "snippet" and not the "full response." That was not true; his comments were shown in full. He added, "I hope the person who has the video would put out the full material."

Romney is not the only one who has called for the release of the full 49-minute video. And we're more than happy to oblige. The complete video demonstrates that Romney was not snippetized and that he was captured raw and uncut. Here it is, in two parts:

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mUEHpc6JKw8?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rBj0joyCeag?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

I don't have 45 minutes to watch this at the moment -- is there anything new?

Swanman
09-18-2012, 01:30 PM
Well, his yearly allowance in elementary school was $225,000 dollars, so he somewhat identifies with their pain.

A kid's gotta eat.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 01:30 PM
Well, his yearly allowance in elementary school was $225,000 dollars, so he somewhat identifies with their pain.

LMAO

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 01:34 PM
Personally, I don't believe in a guy who openly states he's for redistribution. It's never created growth and it never will. And growing the economy is the last, best, chance to get out of this mess.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Well, his yearly allowance in elementary school was $225,000 dollars, so he somewhat identifies with their pain.

Don't forget he doesn't think $374,000 is alot of money

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 01:39 PM
Don't forget he doesn't think $374,000 is alot of money

But that's more than the $250,000 the middle class makes...

Ugly Duck
09-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Romney is risking pissing off the following groups with his moronic blanket statement:

Senior citizens pulling down less than x amount from SS
Working poor
Soldiers currently in a combat zone
Full-time students

You need to pay attention more better. Romney sez he's not concerned about those freeloaders cuz they all vote for Obama anyway. He'll never convince them to take personal responsibility or care for themselves.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 02:06 PM
You need to pay attention more better. Romney sez he's not concerned about those freeloaders cuz they all vote for Obama anyway. He'll never convince them to take personal responsibility or care for themselves.

Yeah, this country's 65 and older retirees need to learn how to better take care of themselves.

Swanman
09-18-2012, 02:08 PM
Yeah, this country's 65 and older retirees need to learn how to better take care of themselves.

Given the bad grammar, I think Mr. Duck was being sarcastic. I could be wrong though.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 02:11 PM
Yeah, this country's 65 and older retirees need to learn how to better take care of themselves.

Not elegant.

But better than openly saying you're for redistribution.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Not elegant.

But better than openly saying you're for redistribution.

Was that an Obama quote?

Edit: Just looked it up. From 2001:

http://themoderatevoice.com/23805/obamas-redistribution-of-wealth-quote-in-context/

This?

Donger
09-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Was that an Obama quote?

Edit: Just looked it up. From 2001:

http://themoderatevoice.com/23805/obamas-redistribution-of-wealth-quote-in-context/

This?

He's said it more than once. It's what he believes in.

1998.

2001.

2008, Joe the Plumber.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 02:37 PM
He's said it more than once. It's what he believes in.

1998.

2001.

2008, Joe the Plumber.

Cool. I'll have to research because that particular quote, IMO, wasn't damning at all. It was about the Civil Rights movement, the SCOTUS and the Constitution.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 02:40 PM
He's said it more than once. It's what he believes in.

1998.

2001.

2008, Joe the Plumber.

Google Search: obama redistribute wealth quote 2008

This yields nothing but McCain and the Republican Party's reference to Obama's 2001 interview.

If you could kindly provide the other information you've alluded to, it would be greatly appreciated.

Donger
09-18-2012, 02:47 PM
Google Search: obama redistribute wealth quote 2008

This yields nothing but McCain and the Republican Party's reference to Obama's 2001 interview.

If you could kindly provide the other information you've alluded to, it would be greatly appreciated.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RZcEHLr4gBg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

0:40

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 02:54 PM
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RZcEHLr4gBg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

0:40

Thanks.

Full interview:

Encounter with Barack Obama

On October 12, 2008, three days before the final presidential debate, Obama met residents in Wurzelbacher's Ohio neighborhood. Wurzelbacher, who had been playing football with his son in his front yard at the time, asked Obama about his tax plan. Wurzelbacher suggested that Obama's tax plan would be at odds with "the American dream." Wurzelbacher said, "I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama responded with an explanation of how his tax plan would affect a small business in this bracket. Obama said, "If you're a small business, which you would qualify, first of all, you would get a 50 percent tax credit so you'd get a cut in taxes for your health care costs. So you would actually get a tax cut on that part. If your revenue is above 250, then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that, say for 250 up — from 250 to 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you’d go from 36 to 39 percent, which is what it was under Bill Clinton."

Obama also said, "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too… My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. If you’ve got a plumbing business, you’re gonna be better off [...] if you’ve got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody’s so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody."

Donger
09-18-2012, 02:58 PM
Thanks.

Full interview:

Encounter with Barack Obama

On October 12, 2008, three days before the final presidential debate, Obama met residents in Wurzelbacher's Ohio neighborhood. Wurzelbacher, who had been playing football with his son in his front yard at the time, asked Obama about his tax plan. Wurzelbacher suggested that Obama's tax plan would be at odds with "the American dream." Wurzelbacher said, "I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama responded with an explanation of how his tax plan would affect a small business in this bracket. Obama said, "If you're a small business, which you would qualify, first of all, you would get a 50 percent tax credit so you'd get a cut in taxes for your health care costs. So you would actually get a tax cut on that part. If your revenue is above 250, then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that, say for 250 up — from 250 to 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you’d go from 36 to 39 percent, which is what it was under Bill Clinton."

Obama also said, "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too… My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. If you’ve got a plumbing business, you’re gonna be better off [...] if you’ve got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody’s so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody."

The last sentence and proclamation is the only relevant one.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 03:00 PM
The last sentence and proclamation is the only relevant one.

To be quite honest, I'm not even sure what he's saying.

I don't understand how taxing Joe the Plumber 3% is going to help his business, nor do I understand what "wealth" he's referring to in his statement.

I'm actually dumbfounded by the logic.

Donger
09-18-2012, 03:04 PM
To be quite honest, I'm not even sure what he's saying.

I don't understand how taxing Joe the Plumber 3% is going to help his business, nor do I understand what "wealth" he's referring to in his statement.

I'm actually dumbfounded by the logic.

I thought it was the most important moment of 2008, honestly. Unscripted, no teleprompter. Just "speaking from the heart."

He believes absolutely in wealth redistribution and see's nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, he thinks it's "good for everyone," even those being taken from to "spread it around."

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 03:07 PM
I thought it was the most important moment of 2008, honestly. Unscripted, no teleprompter. Just "speaking from the heart."

He believes absolutely in wealth redistribution and see's nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, he thinks it's "good for everyone," even those being taken from to "spread it around."

Even if he believes in it (and there's some pretzel logic going on with the 2008 interview), he hasn't been able to act on that idea and I doubt he will.

Personally, I don't mind paying a few percent more in taxes IF it will help pay down the debt and possibly help out those in need. The problem is that the Congress is so corrupt, those two things aren't likely to happen.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 03:07 PM
I thought it was the most important moment of 2008, honestly. Unscripted, no teleprompter. Just "speaking from the heart."

He believes absolutely in wealth redistribution and see's nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, he thinks it's "good for everyone," even those being taken from to "spread it around."

The most important political part of 2008 was when McCain suspended his campaign and acted stupid by picking Palin. The economy crashing because of greedy Wall Street was by far the most important part

As it stands now Romney is going to be defined by his Libya remarks and this video where he shits on half the country.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 03:08 PM
Was that an Obama quote?

Edit: Just looked it up. From 2001:

http://themoderatevoice.com/23805/obamas-redistribution-of-wealth-quote-in-context/

This?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ge3aGJfDSg4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's at the end.

Donger
09-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Even if he believes in it (and there's some pretzel logic going on with the 2008 interview), he hasn't been able to act on that idea and I doubt he will.

Personally, I don't mind paying a few percent more in taxes IF it will help pay down the debt and possibly help out those in need. The problem is that the Congress is so corrupt, those two things aren't likely to happen.

I would too, at least the debt idea. But, that isn't what he's talking about. He's talking about general wealth redistribution. Taking from those who have it and giving it to those who do not. And it helps EVERYONE, including those being taken from.

Robama Hood is apropos (whoever coined it).

headsnap
09-18-2012, 03:10 PM
The most important part of 2008 was when McCain suspended his campaign and acted stupid by picking Palin.

As it stands now Romney is going to be defined by his Libya remarks and this video where he shits on half the country.

that half wasn't going to vote for him anyways...

he's got his half, what he needs to do is win over the 6% that's left over(and the majority of them have jobs)... ;)

Donger
09-18-2012, 03:11 PM
The most important political part of 2008 was when McCain suspended his campaign and acted stupid by picking Palin. The economy crashing because of greedy Wall Street was by far the most important part

As it stands now Romney is going to be defined by his Libya remarks and this video where he shits on half the country.

Yeah, I realize that Obama supporters agree with him. And still do.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 03:12 PM
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ge3aGJfDSg4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

It's at the end.

Thanks.

I really don't have a problem with that statement "I actually believe in some level of redistribution so that everybody's got a shot".

Poverty in this country is a huge issue. Some say it's an epidemic. I'm not really sure how you tackle it without some government intervention.

Let's just say that I'm glad I never went into politics.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 03:22 PM
that half wasn't going to vote for him anyways...

he's got his half, what he needs to do is win over the 6% that's left over(and the majority of them have jobs)... ;)

We have been over this already the people he was talking about vote Republican just as much or more than Democrat. He shat on his own supporters

suzzer99
09-18-2012, 03:43 PM
It took a half a day for those Obama quotes to hit the echo chamber. The right-wing false equivalence machine is losing their edge.

patteeu
09-18-2012, 03:48 PM
Cool. I'll have to research because that particular quote, IMO, wasn't damning at all. It was about the Civil Rights movement, the SCOTUS and the Constitution.

Lamenting the fact that the Warren court, as progressive as it was, didn't decide to completely transform the constitution from a document that limits government into a document that requires the government to transfer wealth doesn't bother you? If anything, that's worse than being in favor of legislative redistribution through the tax code or through welfare programs/corporate subsidies, IMO.

Setsuna
09-18-2012, 03:49 PM
We have been over this already the people he was talking about vote Republican just as much or more than Democrat. He shat on his own supporters

Yall are seriously retarded. Results will win this election and Obama hasn't done shit. If this was Obama's first election then this would actually matter, but who gives a shit when we've seen the shitstorm with this fool at the helm of our country. Especially with foreign policy. WTF have we heard from this joker in light of other ME countries threatening our embassies? Americans might as well not fly across the pond because Joker Obama won't do shit to protect them or make sure they aren't being targeted.

Titty Meat
09-18-2012, 03:52 PM
What an idiot.


Shoutout to Saulgood, Pat, Mikey, etc. for bringing us another Obama term.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 03:54 PM
Thanks.

I really don't have a problem with that statement "I actually believe in some level of redistribution so that everybody's got a shot".

Poverty in this country is a huge issue. Some say it's an epidemic. I'm not really sure how you tackle it without some government intervention.

Let's just say that I'm glad I never went into politics.

Obviously, the tax system as it is creates "redistribution of wealth," but government - no matter how well intentioned - is a terrible alternative to the capitalist system in terms of granting "shots."

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 03:58 PM
Lamenting the fact that the Warren court, as progressive as it was, didn't decide to completely transform the constitution from a document that limits government into a document that requires the government to transfer wealth doesn't bother you? If anything, that's worse than being in favor of legislative redistribution through the tax code or through welfare programs/corporate subsidies, IMO.

Big Triple Jumper, are you?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 04:01 PM
Obviously, the tax system as it is creates "redistribution of wealth," but government - no matter how well intentioned - is a terrible alternative to the capitalist system in terms of granting "shots."

That's what I (possibly, mistakenly) assumed he was referring.

patteeu
09-18-2012, 04:06 PM
Big Triple Jumper, are you?

Too obscure for me. If it made more sense than your usual LMAO, could you translate for me?

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 04:06 PM
Some of you people are fucking ridiculous. There is NOTHING in his remarks that he hasn't pretty much said already. This is all about it being a "hidden" video and the false idea that this is some super secret info that has leaked.

What a fucking joke our media has become.

The_Grand_Illusion
09-18-2012, 04:10 PM
Some of you people are ****ing ridiculous. There is NOTHING in his remarks that he hasn't pretty much said already. This is all about it being a "hidden" video and the false idea that this is some super secret info that has leaked.

What a ****ing joke our media has become.

:clap: This.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 04:13 PM
It took a half a day for those Obama quotes to hit the echo chamber. The right-wing false equivalence machine is losing their edge.

You're really funny.

Now go spend your food stamps...

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 04:13 PM
Yall are seriously retarded. Results will win this election and Obama hasn't done shit. If this was Obama's first election then this would actually matter, but who gives a shit when we've seen the shitstorm with this fool at the helm of our country. Especially with foreign policy. WTF have we heard from this joker in light of other ME countries threatening our embassies? Americans might as well not fly across the pond because Joker Obama won't do shit to protect them or make sure they aren't being targeted.

I don't think Obama believes this. He thinks talking to People magazine and David Letterman wins elections.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 04:15 PM
That's what I (possibly, mistakenly) assumed he was referring.

Sure.

I'm glad I met you -- I can't imagine the arguments we'd be having if we hadn't shared lunch... ;)

RNR
09-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Some of you people are ****ing ridiculous. There is NOTHING in his remarks that he hasn't pretty much said already. This is all about it being a "hidden" video and the false idea that this is some super secret info that has leaked.

What a ****ing joke our media has become.

As I have already posted, he said nothing that was out of line. This is nothing more than the Ministry of Truth creating news~

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 04:18 PM
This is nothing more than the Ministry of Truth creating news~

Do you mean the DOJ? Have they called MediaMatters and given them today's talking points yet? Media collusion with this administration has gotten to the point of lunacy. Anyone who doesn't have a problem with it is either a fool or a bastard.

RNR
09-18-2012, 04:26 PM
Do you mean the DOJ? Have they called MediaMatters and given them today's talking points yet? Media collusion with this administration has gotten to the point of lunacy. Anyone who doesn't have a problem with it is either a fool or a bastard.

MSNBC...err...NBC Just reported you are on the fringe, and are not to be taken seriously. The problem we face is the only people who do not follow the instructions from the Ministry of Truth are batshit crazy the other way. Beck, Savage, Rush and others babble on with their own version of reality~

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 04:27 PM
Sure.

I'm glad I met you -- I can't imagine the arguments we'd be having if we hadn't shared lunch... ;)

Me, too. And I'm glad you didn't throw me off the deck of your beach house!

LMAO

I appreciate and respect your point of view and I've learned more recently than I would have expected to learn from this forum. And it's not because I'm some kind of hard line Liberal - that's extremely far from the truth, especially considering I've voted five times Republican and only twice Democrat (and Republican on the state and local level every time). And McCain had my vote until he chose Palin.

I believe in fiscal conservatism and social acceptance. One of the reasons I began participating in the D.C. is to gain some knowledge of what's happening because since 2008, I've pretty much gone about my business and ignored it.

Not that my vote means much in the national election while living in this state.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 04:29 PM
Too obscure for me. If it made more sense than your usual LMAO, could you translate for me?

Pat, that's not what I inferred from that link. You can go ahead and write a brief about how I'm missing the point, if it'll make you feel better.

RNR
09-18-2012, 04:34 PM
Me, too. And I'm glad you didn't throw me off the deck of your beach house!

LMAO

I appreciate and respect your point of view and I've learned more recently than I would have expected to learn from this forum. And it's not because I'm some kind of hard line Liberal - that's extremely far from the truth, especially considering I've voted five times Republican and only twice Democrat (and Republican on the state and local level every time). And McCain had my vote until he chose Palin.

I believe in fiscal conservatism and social acceptance. One of the reasons I began participating in the D.C. is to gain some knowledge of what's happening because since 2008, I've pretty much gone about my business and ignored it.

Not that my vote means much in the national election while living in this state.

People who date hot chicks and live on the west coast get no slack :)

patteeu
09-18-2012, 04:38 PM
Pat, that's not what I inferred from that link. You can go ahead and write a brief about how I'm missing the point, if it'll make you feel better.

OK. No, I won't write anything more because I know I can't convince you, but it's pretty obvious that that's what he's saying.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 04:53 PM
OK. No, I won't write anything more because I know I can't convince you, but it's pretty obvious that that's what he's saying.

It's not so much that I don't believe you (or Donger or RINGLEADER) it's that my powers of reading between the lines and perception must be failing.

Or it also could be that I'm just not familiar enough with all of his statements in order to put two and two together.

Or all of the above.

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 04:59 PM
And it's not because I'm some kind of hard line Liberal - that's extremely far from the truth, especially considering I've voted five times Republican and only twice Democrat (and Republican on the state and local level every time). And McCain had my vote until he chose Palin.

I believe in fiscal conservatism and social acceptance. :thumb:

Voted for Ronald Reagan twice and George H. Bush. Voted for Danforth and Bond for senator. Congress Young for years.

I'm a strong advocate of the 2nd amendment rights. To the right of most on here on Israel. No mercy for freeloaders on the countries dime, for a minimum federal tax. Want a strong defense, believe we should hunt down and kill every single member of AL-Quaeda no matter what country/state they are in. Yet, I'm labeled a communist liberal sucking at the tit of Obama.

Calcountry
09-18-2012, 05:11 PM
Personally, I don't believe in a guy who openly states he's for redistribution. It's never created growth and it never will. And growing the economy is the last, best, chance to get out of this mess.He hasn't just openly stated it, he has legislated it.

What do you think the Healthcare law is really about?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 05:16 PM
:thumb:

Voted for Ronald Reagan twice and George H. Bush. Voted for Danforth and Bond for senator. Congress Young for years.

I'm a strong advocate of the 2nd amendment rights. To the right of most on here on Israel. No mercy for freeloaders on the countries dime, for a minimum federal tax. Want a strong defense, believe we should hunt down and kill every single member of AL-Quaeda no matter what country/state they are in. Yet, I'm labeled a communist liberal sucking at the tit of Obama.

I'm with you on all accounts (although I'm not sure if I'm to the right of most on Israel, but definitely a strong support. Too many close, lifelong Jewish friends to not support them).

I'm for immigration reform and don't "hate" the idea of the Dream Act or the recent EO for people born to illegals in the U.S. I support Social Security reform but not at the expense of our Seniors that rely on it. I support healthcare reform and believe it should be non-profit.

It's difficult for me to understand all the hatred happening in our country and the extremism on both sides, not to mention the unwillingness to work together.

It's mind-bottling.

go bo
09-18-2012, 05:16 PM
:thumb:

Voted for Ronald Reagan twice and George H. Bush. Voted for Danforth and Bond for senator. Congress Young for years.

I'm a strong advocate of the 2nd amendment rights. To the right of most on here on Israel. No mercy for freeloaders on the countries dime, for a minimum federal tax. Want a strong defense, believe we should hunt down and kill every single member of AL-Quaeda no matter what country/state they are in. Yet, I'm labeled a communist liberal sucking at the tit of Obama.

self-awareness is key, my son...

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 05:17 PM
What do you think the Healthcare law is really about?

Health Care. Taking care of our fellow Americans. Not allowing them to die without dignity. You know, that sort of thing.

jettio
09-18-2012, 05:24 PM
Obviously, the tax system as it is creates "redistribution of wealth," but government - no matter how well intentioned - is a terrible alternative to the capitalist system in terms of granting "shots."

What year in American history do you consider to represent the best balance between the role of government and the role of free enterprise capitalism in terms of tax and fiscal policy and individual opportunity?

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 05:25 PM
I'm with you on all accounts (although I'm not sure if I'm to the right of most on Israel, but definitely a strong support. Too many close, lifelong Jewish friends to not support them).

I'm for immigration reform and don't "hate" the idea of the Dream Act or the recent EO for people born to illegals in the U.S. I support Social Security reform but not at the expense of our Seniors that rely on it. I support healthcare reform and believe it should be non-profit.

It's difficult for me to understand all the hatred happening in our country and the extremism on both sides, not to mention the unwillingness to work together.

It's mind-bottling.It's the bubble and Fox news. I'm sure that there are many liberals that watch MSNBC but I highly doubt more than a small amount of Obama voters only watch MSNBC. But, I'd bet that the majority of Romney voters get their news from fox news.

They primaried a senator just because he said he didnt have to hate Obama to oppose his policies. another because he said compromise was essential to get things doen in Washington.

BIG_DADDY
09-18-2012, 05:40 PM
I have never seen so many people upset about somebody just telling it like it is.

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 05:46 PM
I have never seen so many people upset about somebody just telling it like it is.But, it is a misleading factoid. The 47% are not freeloaders. I've seen the 1% number thrown around today. That means only 1% of that 47% are actuall freeloaders.

The highest % of that 47% is white males with high school diplomas. Who is that group voting for?

And the vast majority are from red states.

jettio
09-18-2012, 05:46 PM
I'm with you on all accounts (although I'm not sure if I'm to the right of most on Israel, but definitely a strong support. Too many close, lifelong Jewish friends to not support them).

I'm for immigration reform and don't "hate" the idea of the Dream Act or the recent EO for people born to illegals in the U.S. I support Social Security reform but not at the expense of our Seniors that rely on it. I support healthcare reform and believe it should be non-profit.

It's difficult for me to understand all the hatred happening in our country and the extremism on both sides, not to mention the unwillingness to work together.

It's mind-bottling.

What is an example of extremism from the left that has you worried?

Seems to me that the democrats gave B*sh a fair shot to be President and did not filibuster at every opportunity.

Was there any unsatisfactory result from the B*sh presidency that was arguably due to the democrats in Congress preventing the enactment of a policy that B*sh championed?

Seems that the antipathy on the right is much more brazen and the intention to stop Obama's proposed policy by filibuster or unwilliingness to compromise is pretty obvious.

Maybe that will change the next time there is a GOP president, but that might not be for a very long time if Obama wins re-election because this GOP has alienated a lot of people over some relatively unimportant issues.

Radar Chief
09-18-2012, 05:54 PM
I have never seen so many people upset about somebody just telling it like it is.

The hit dog yelps.

Dallas Chief
09-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Great thread dirky! This fugger really took off!

Ultra Peanut
09-18-2012, 06:01 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m55yibdN6Z1rtxen9o1_400.gif

Dallas Chief
09-18-2012, 06:04 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m55yibdN6Z1rtxen9o1_400.gif

So what's your point you limp noodle?

kstater
09-18-2012, 06:09 PM
So what's your point you limp noodle?

The gif is a metaphor. I'm surprised you didn't get it. You're usually a fairly smart person.

Dallas Chief
09-18-2012, 06:11 PM
The gif is a metaphor. I'm surprised you didn't get it. You're usually a fairly smart person.

I was asking him and not you and yeah I got it thx. I just really wanted a chance to call it a limp noodle cause honestly I don't know if it is a he or she at this point. NTTIAWWT.

Ultra Peanut
09-18-2012, 06:16 PM
So what's your point you limp noodle?

a) Romney/Ryan 2012 dot gif

b) Willard "Mitt" Romney, who was born with a $250 million spoon in his mouth and full access to food, housing, and health care his entire life, DOESN'T feel entitled to those things, but my uppity cancer surviving (twice) mom is a big ol' moocher for feeling like she deserves more than being turned away from radiation treatment* because she doesn't have any money and can't hold a job** because of her myriad health issues. Good2know~

*which I had to pay for with my goddamn student loans, lol xd
** actually, she recently found something that fit her niche and isn't too taxing on her body and I'm UNBELIEVABLY PROUD OF HER. Fuck you and fuck Mitt Romney.

I was asking him and not you and yeah I got it thx. I just really wanted a chance to call it a limp noodle cause honestly I don't know if it is a he or she at this point. NTTIAWWT.http://i.imgur.com/6NmRF.jpg

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 06:18 PM
So what's your point you limp noodle?Thats not cool. There is no need to cross that line.

headsnap
09-18-2012, 06:33 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m55yibdN6Z1rtxen9o1_400.gif

http://www.thedailyrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/president-barack-obama-rides-along-bike-path-correllus-state-forest-martha-vineyard-west-tisbury-massachusetts.jpg

J Diddy
09-18-2012, 06:36 PM
I was asking him and not you and yeah I got it thx. I just really wanted a chance to call it a limp noodle cause honestly I don't know if it is a he or she at this point. NTTIAWWT.

Does it matter? Looking for a date? I wouldn't suggest trying to hook up with anyone in DC, because the place leaves a dark mark on your soul.

Try plenty of fish. I'm sure your odds will be better.

Ultra Peanut
09-18-2012, 06:37 PM
That's an accurate summation of campaign 2012, yes

Direckshun
09-18-2012, 06:58 PM
The Daily Show ‏@TheDailyShow

#TDSBreakingNews @MittRomney says comments about #47percent not "elegantly stated." We do expect elegance from the owner of a dancing horse.

J Diddy
09-18-2012, 07:00 PM
The Daily Show ‏@TheDailyShow

#TDSBreakingNews @MittRomney says comments about #47percent not "elegantly stated." We do expect elegance from the owner of a dancing horse.

LMAO

I've been waiting to watch TDS and cobert show tonight. Should make for a grand ol time.

Direckshun
09-18-2012, 07:04 PM
LMAO

I've been waiting to watch TDS and cobert show tonight. Should make for a grand ol time.

Fuck yes.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 07:05 PM
What is an example of extremism from the left that has you worried?

Excessive and oppressive taxation, more unnecessary government agencies, more federal handouts, a massive reduction of the military and Second Amendment intrusion.

Look no further than the state of California. We are taxed out the ass, have a massively bloated bureaucracy and personally, I have nothing to show for it. Poor roads and streets, poor police response, horrific public schools and the consistent alienation of corporations. Los Angeles has been bleeding Hollywood films for more than a decade due to taxation, permit expense and more red tape.

I dislike Jerry Brown more than anyone in this forum (and possibly, the world) could even imagine disliking Obama.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 07:33 PM
Excessive and oppressive taxation, more unnecessary government agencies, more federal handouts, a massive reduction of the military and Second Amendment intrusion.

Look no further than the state of California. We are taxed out the ass, have a massively bloated bureaucracy and personally, I have nothing to show for it. Poor roads and streets, poor police response, horrific public schools and the consistent alienation of corporations. Los Angeles has been bleeding Hollywood films for more than a decade due to taxation, permit expense and more red tape.

I dislike Jerry Brown more than anyone in this forum (and possibly, the world) could even imagine disliking Obama.

It's why all you avacado eating Californians keep moving here and driving up prices in downtown Austin! :D

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 07:39 PM
It's why all you avacado eating Californians keep moving here and driving up prices in downtown Austin! :D


Isn't the population there approaching two million?

And yes, avocados rule!

:D

patteeu
09-18-2012, 07:39 PM
But, it is a misleading factoid. The 47% are not freeloaders. I've seen the 1% number thrown around today. That means only 1% of that 47% are actuall freeloaders.

The highest % of that 47% is white males with high school diplomas. Who is that group voting for?

And the vast majority are from red states.

What is a "freeloader" and when did Romney say anything about them?

jettio
09-18-2012, 07:53 PM
Excessive and oppressive taxation, more unnecessary government agencies, more federal handouts, a massive reduction of the military and Second Amendment intrusion.

Look no further than the state of California. We are taxed out the ass, have a massively bloated bureaucracy and personally, I have nothing to show for it. Poor roads and streets, poor police response, horrific public schools and the consistent alienation of corporations. Los Angeles has been bleeding Hollywood films for more than a decade due to taxation, permit expense and more red tape.

I dislike Jerry Brown more than anyone in this forum (and possibly, the world) could even imagine disliking Obama.

I think you may have a case regarding California state law since they generally have democratic majorities. but the current federal tax rates are pretty close to as low as they have ever been in spite of the fact that we have had troops deployed to foreign battlefields without paying for it with any kind of tax increase.

Reduction of the military? Could you please explain that complaint to me? What has been reduced that you have a problem with?

Regarding your complaint about the second amendment, Could you explain that? There was no supreme court recognition of second amendment rights until recently. The only laws invalidated were complete and total bans by municipalities, DC and Chicago, whose laws were on the books since the 1970's, IIRC. Federally, the assault weapons bans expired and there have been no new laws passed in about the last 15 years limited who can possess a firearm. I think the last federal restriction was a ban on possession for people under a domestic violence restraining order or prior conviction of a domestic violence misdemeanor.

Swanman
09-18-2012, 08:13 PM
Some of you people are ****ing ridiculous. There is NOTHING in his remarks that he hasn't pretty much said already. This is all about it being a "hidden" video and the false idea that this is some super secret info that has leaked.

What a ****ing joke our media has become.

"I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for for their lives."

That single line summed up why Mitt Romney is a c**t. He makes this blanket statement about the entire 47% that do not pay income taxes. I know I am repeating myself but that list includes active duty soldiers in combat zones, full-time students, retirees making less than x dollar amount in SS and the working poor to name a few. That single line shows that he doesn't understand that people go through hardships and that not everyone that is down on their luck is there because of laziness. He was just being a scumbag millionaire douchenozzle speaking to a room full of scumbag millionaire douchenozzles.

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 08:18 PM
"I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for for their lives."

That single line summed up why Mitt Romney is a c**t. He makes this blanket statement about the entire 47% that do not pay income taxes. I know I am repeating myself but that list includes active duty soldiers in combat zones, full-time students, retirees making less than x dollar amount in SS and the working poor to name a few. That single line shows that he doesn't understand that people go through hardships and that not everyone that is down on their luck is there because of laziness. He was just being a scumbag millionaire douchenozzle speaking to a room full of scumbag millionaire douchenozzles.And the irony is that the majority of those 47% are whlte males with only a high school diploma, a Romney core group and most live in red states. He's really dissing his own voters.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 08:19 PM
He makes this blanket statement about the entire 47% that do not pay income taxes. I know I am repeating myself but that list includes active duty soldiers in combat zones, full-time students, retirees making less than x dollar amount in SS and the working poor to name a few.

And he has specifically stated he wasn't talking about those people. And yes, that makes the 47% number likely wrong, but it was an informal speech off the cuff.. anyone with half a fucking brain knows EXACTLY who he is talking about and it's not retirees or military. Disagree with him about THAT.. but don't try to push some bullshit idea that Romney hates old people and the military. It's crap and you and everyone else know it.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 08:20 PM
And the irony is that the majority of those 47% are whlte males with only a high school diploma, a Romney core group and most live in red states.

BAD MATH ALERT... WRONG! The majority is white, you got that part right. (I think, I'd have to check to be sure) Do you want to bet that over 50% of the "47%" are white males? Seriously?

patteeu
09-18-2012, 08:22 PM
"I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for for their lives."

That single line summed up why Mitt Romney is a c**t. He makes this blanket statement about the entire 47% that do not pay income taxes. I know I am repeating myself but that list includes active duty soldiers in combat zones, full-time students, retirees making less than x dollar amount in SS and the working poor to name a few. That single line shows that he doesn't understand that people go through hardships and that not everyone that is down on their luck is there because of laziness. He was just being a scumbag millionaire douchenozzle speaking to a room full of scumbag millionaire douchenozzles.

He's making a blanket statement about the people who fit his entire description, not just the 47% part of it. Obviously the numbers don't all add up, but like with Obama's 57 states comment, that's not really the point.

You clearly aren't an objective observer given your traumatic childhood and all.

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 08:46 PM
BAD MATH ALERT... WRONG! The majority is white, you got that part right. (I think, I'd have to check to be sure) Do you want to bet that over 50% of the "47%" are white males? Seriously?I wasn't saying they were the majority group as in 23% of the total %. But the highest % of Female/Male/Black/White/Asian/Latino etc, not they were 23% of the total group but that the white male was the largest gender/race group represented in the 47%.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 08:48 PM
And he has specifically stated he wasn't talking about those people. And yes, that makes the 47% number likely wrong, but it was an informal speech off the cuff.. anyone with half a fucking brain knows EXACTLY who he is talking about and it's not retirees or military. Disagree with him about THAT.. but don't try to push some bullshit idea that Romney hates old people and the military. It's crap and you and everyone else know it.

who was he talking about then?

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 08:52 PM
I wasn't saying they were the majority group as in 23% of the total %. But the highest % of Female/Male/Black/White/Asian/Latino etc, not they were 23% of the total group but that the white male was the largest gender/race group represented in the 47%.

Yes, I know.. but you SAID the majority.. meaning over 23.5%. It doesn't matter if I knew what you meant, it only matters what you said and how I can beat you over the head with it and show that you were wrong and how it must mean you hate the other groups so much that you marginalize them in the percentages.

Has my point been made?

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 08:56 PM
Yes, I know.. but you SAID the majority.. meaning over 23.5%. It doesn't matter if I knew what you meant, it only matters what you said and how I can beat you over the head with it and show that you were wrong and how it must mean you hate the other groups so much that you marginalize them in the percentages.

Has my point been made?Having you read the board lately, I'm too stupid to learn. But, I am watching the Sarah Palin in Alaska reality show and having the wife dress up as a mama grizzly to improve my learning ability.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 08:56 PM
who was he talking about then?

The people who...
are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it
and NOT...
retirees and members of the military and so forth who aren't paying taxes and that's how it should be

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 09:00 PM
The people who...

and NOT...

Good spin but that is not what he said. If that was true you are maybe talking about 10% of the country if that.

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 09:00 PM
having the wife dress up as a mama grizzly
TMI dude! Whatever Furry kink you are into is none of my business! :Pimp:

AustinChief
09-18-2012, 09:03 PM
Good spin but that is not what he said. If that was true you are maybe talking about 10% of the country if that.

WHAT? That is EXACTLY what he said.. those are his QUOTES!!!

Yes, everyone knows his number is wrong... it isn't 47%.. but I think I proved the point on that a few posts back.

And no it isn't 10%.. you're living in la la land if you think it isn't closer to the 20s.

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 09:09 PM
The people who...
are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it
and NOT...
retirees and members of the military and so forth who aren't paying taxes and that's how it should be I think that if you take out the retirees, SS, elderly, people on disability, military and the people who pay federal, medicare,state taxes that 47% number drops down into the teens, maybe.

Romney was talking about 47% of something. Who was he talking about then?

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 09:13 PM
WHAT? That is EXACTLY what he said.. those are his QUOTES!!!

Yes, everyone knows his number is wrong... it isn't 47%.. but I think I proved the point on that a few posts back.

And no it isn't 10%.. you're living in la la land if you think it isn't closer to the 20s.

No he said

All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

He adds: "My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."


The majority of the people he thinks are dependent on government are the elderly

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/images/Breakdown3-06-17-11.gif

go bo
09-18-2012, 09:14 PM
He's making a blanket statement about the people who fit his entire description, not just the 47% part of it. Obviously the numbers don't all add up, but like with Obama's 57 states comment, that's not really the point.

You clearly aren't an objective observer given your traumatic childhood and all.

we're not journalists around here, we don't pretend to be objective observers or we shouldn't if we do...

besides, what fun would a bunch of objective observations be anyway?

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 09:19 PM
The people who...

and NOT...

No he said



The majority of the people he thinks are dependent on government are the elderly

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/images/Breakdown3-06-17-11.gifSo, its less than 1% that are getting a total free ride?

Here is cbsnews fact check of the 47% number.


September 18, 2012 11:46 AM

Fact-checking Romney's "47 percent" comment


Updated: 4:00 p.m. ET

(CBS News) In a video unearthed yesterday by Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser), Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney was captured making some inflammatory comments about people who don't pay income tax in America - the people he says will vote for President Obama "no matter what." Below, CBSNews.com looks into the validity of his controversial statement.

The Quote "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

True or false? Much of Romney's statement relies on assumptions about one demographic: The 47 percent of Americans who he says "pay no income tax." So is it true that 47 percent of Americans don't pay income tax? Essentially, yes, according to the (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/federal-taxes-households.cfm)the Tax Policy Center, which provides data showing that in 2011, 46.4 percent of American households paid no federal income tax. The same data shows, however, that nearly two-thirds of households that paid no income tax did pay payroll taxes. And most people also pay some combination of state, local, sales, gas and property taxes.

<!--pagebreak-->In order to assess whether or not, as Romney claims, these non-income tax payers "will vote for the president no matter what," it's helpful to look at a breakdown of who they are. According to 2011 data (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3057) from the Tax Policy Center, more than half of the filing units not paying income taxes are those with incomes less than $16,812 per year. Nearly a third - 29.2 percent - of those paying no income taxes are tax filers earning between $16,812 and $33,542, and 12.8 percent are those with incomes between $33,542 and $59,486. In other words, the poor are least likely to pay federal income taxes, but many middle-class families are also exempt. Smaller but significant numbers of the higher-income earners are also exempt: The same data shows that in 2011, 78,000 tax filers with incomes between $211,000 and $533,000 paid no income taxes; 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million paid no income taxes, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million paid no income taxes.

Overall, according to (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001547-Why-No-Income-Tax.pdf)the Tax Policy Center, "of the 38 million tax units made nontaxable by the addition of tax expenditures, 44 percent are moved off the tax rolls by elderly tax benefits and another 30 percent by credits for children and the working poor."


Moreover, only 18.1 percent of American households paid neither federal income taxes nor payroll taxes in 2011, says the Tax Policy Center (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/federal-taxes-households.cfm). Of that 18.1 percent, 10.3 percent were elderly and 6.9 percent were non-elderly households earning less than $20,000 year, which include low-income families and students. About one in 20 is non-elderly with income over $20,000.

At least one of the demographics that is less likely to pay income taxes (or income and payroll taxes) tends to vote Republican: In 2008, voters 65 and over voted for Republican nominee John McCain over President Obama 53 percent to 45 percent, an eight-point margin. The latest CBS News/New York Times poll also shows Romney winning the support of these voters nationally: 53 percent of voters 65 and older support Romney and 38 percent support Mr. Obama.

Voters in households with household incomes of less than $30,000 a year tend to favor Mr. Obama, according to the latest CBS News/New York Times poll, with 61 percent supporting the president and 32 percent supporting Romney. The president's margin narrows significantly when only white voters in this income group are sampled: Among white voters earning less than $30,000, 52 percent supported Mr. Obama and 40 percent supported Romney. The race is even tighter when you look at white voters with household incomes under $50,000. Forty-six percent of those voters say they support Mr. Obama, and 47 percent support Romney, according to the latest CBS News/New York Times poll.

Additionally, according to 2008 data from the nonpartisan Tax Foundation (http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/Fiscal%20Facts/20100524-229-nonpayers-map-.jpg), eight of the top 10 states with the lowest income tax liability are Republican-leaning states. The other two are Florida, a battleground state, and New Mexico, which CBS News rates (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57499228/obama-has-slight-edge-in-electoral-map-estimate/?tag=mncol;lst;3)as likely Obama territory.

Jennifer DePinto contributed to this report.

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 09:21 PM
The people who...

and NOT...
I think that if you take out the retirees, SS, elderly, people on disability, military and the people who pay federal, medicare,state taxes that 47% number drops down into the teens, maybe.

Romney was talking about 47% of something. Who was he talking about then?

It is obvious what he is talking about if people were honest which this common right wing talking point that half the country doesn't pay income tax. Heck he says it in his quote at the end.

46% of people don't pay income tax it doesn't take a genius to figure it out especially using his own words

BigRedChief
09-18-2012, 09:26 PM
It is obvious what he is talking about if people were honest which this common right wing talking point that half the country doesn't pay income tax. Heck he says it in his quote at the end.

46% of people don't pay income tax it doesn't take a genius to figure it out especially using his own wordsthem freeloaders who are probably non-white and vote for that Nigerian communist?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2012, 09:27 PM
them freeloaders who are probably non-white and vote for that Nigerian communist?

You forgot illegal, Muslim, Manchurian Candidate

:D

suzzer99
09-18-2012, 09:31 PM
I know I am repeating myself but that list includes active duty soldiers in combat zones, full-time students, retirees making less than x dollar amount in SS and the working poor to name a few.

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how many time any of us repeat this, because Republicans just hear 47% and think black people and illegal immigrants.

J Diddy
09-18-2012, 09:41 PM
Colbert (paraphrased): "Finally a guy who gets it. Us job creators know there is no such thing as a free lunch. It's $50000."
:ROFL:

dirk digler
09-18-2012, 09:44 PM
Since we are talking about free loaders and not paying taxes maybe it is about time Mittens released 10 years worth of tax returns to see if he is part of the 47%

J Diddy
09-18-2012, 09:49 PM
Since we are talking about free loaders and not paying taxes maybe it is about time Mittens released 10 years worth of tax returns to see if he is part of the 47%

Fuck. Good point. What if he isn't able to win over his own vote?

patteeu
09-18-2012, 10:05 PM
This will end up benefitting Romney because he's going to be asked about it several times over the next few days and that will give him the chance to say exactly what he was talking about in those off-the-cuff remarks. People will find it incredibly reasonable. It will make those who are hyperventilating over this and declaring his candidacy dead look ridiculous.

Pitt Gorilla
09-18-2012, 10:09 PM
This will end up benefitting Romney because he's going to be asked about it several times over the next few days and that will give him the chance to say exactly what he was talking about in those off-the-cuff remarks. People will find it incredibly reasonable. It will make those who are hyperventilating over this and declaring his candidacy dead look ridiculous.His biggest problem is that he is lying. He's going to have a difficult time providing any data that suggests 47% of people believe they are victims.

cosmo20002
09-18-2012, 10:15 PM
This will end up benefitting Romney because he's going to be asked about it several times over the next few days and that will give him the chance to say exactly what he was talking about in those off-the-cuff remarks. People will find it incredibly reasonable. It will make those who are hyperventilating over this and declaring his candidacy dead look ridiculous.

Yeah, right. As if he wants to be talking about this. If you're explaining what you meant, you're losing.

If he was smart, he'd go ahead and release the rest of his 2011 tax return to at least change the subject (sort of). Might as well get that out of the way. But, I'm sure his campaign knows what they are doing.

suzzer99
09-18-2012, 10:40 PM
This will end up benefitting Romney because he's going to be asked about it several times over the next few days and that will give him the chance to say exactly what he was talking about in those off-the-cuff remarks. People will find it incredibly reasonable. It will make those who are hyperventilating over this and declaring his candidacy dead look ridiculous.

You have to be getting paid to say this stuff.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2012, 11:42 PM
You have to be getting paid to say this stuff.

The whole concept of how business works is really and alien concept to you, isn't it?

Maybe you can explain how you grow an economy from the middle out?

jettio
09-19-2012, 12:09 AM
Romney is a phony baloney.

Sarah Palin landed a strong punch when she said in her convention speech, that Obama would say one thing in San Francisco and another thing in Scranton, after he made the "clinging to guns and religion" explanation at a fundraiser.

Now the GOP has a nominee that says twenty different things to big bucks donors and then lies to the public about what he really thinks and who he really is.

It is funny that Romney played the "please show the full speech" card and now the whole thing is posted and shows more and more embarrassing things.

go bo
09-19-2012, 12:46 AM
Romney is a phony baloney.

Sarah Palin landed a strong punch when she said in her convention speech, that Obama would say one thing in San Francisco and another thing in Scranton, after he made the "clinging to guns and religion" explanation at a fundraiser.

Now the GOP has a nominee that says twenty different things to big bucks donors and then lies to the public about what he really thinks and who he really is.

It is funny that Romney played the "please show the full speech" card and now the whole thing is posted and shows more and more embarrassing things.

it is funny...

in a sad sorta way...

but still ironic and amusing...

patteeu
09-19-2012, 05:20 AM
His biggest problem is that he is lying. He's going to have a difficult time providing any data that suggests 47% of people believe they are victims.

He doesn't have to unless he's trying to earn the too-literal moron vote.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 05:53 AM
He doesn't have to unless he's trying to earn the too-literal moron vote.

The problem I have with Republicans like you isn't the differences in policy views, that's all fine and good. It's that Republicans like you are dickheads.

LOCOChief
09-19-2012, 06:24 AM
I'm glad this will be the discussion. Everyone I know is glad we're now having this discussion because it's true.

It seems simple either you either want a chance to succeed on your own merrits in which case you'll vote Romney.
or
You want the govt to take care of your worthless ass which results in an Obama vote.

The concern of course is the nanny state has grown too large. Personally I don't want a handout and I'm confident in my ability to provide for my family that's how I was raised. I understand that creating jobs broadens the tax base and helps everyone you just have to have enough people willing to work. Hence Romney gets my vote.

Many less fortunate types had parents or single parent that didn't convey this same work ethic to their children because they themselves don't possess it. It is these people that will vote Obama unless they are too fucking lazy to get out of bed and actually go vote.

NewChief
09-19-2012, 07:05 AM
I'm glad this will be the discussion. Everyone I know is glad we're now having this discussion because it's true.

It seems simple either you either want a chance to succeed on your own merrits in which case you'll vote Romney.
or
You want the govt to take care of your worthless ass which results in an Obama vote.

The concern of course is the nanny state has grown too large. Personally I don't want a handout and I'm confident in my ability to provide for my family that's how I was raised. I understand that creating jobs broadens the tax base and helps everyone you just have to have enough people willing to work. Hence Romney gets my vote.

Many less fortunate types had parents or single parent that didn't convey this same work ethic to their children because they themselves don't possess it. It is these people that will vote Obama unless they are too ****ing lazy to get out of bed and actually go vote.

Nice false dichotomy, bro. :thumb:

patteeu
09-19-2012, 07:20 AM
The problem I have with Republicans like you isn't the differences in policy views, that's all fine and good. It's that Republicans like you are dickheads.

Sounds good. I hope you're able to overcome your class bigotry some day.

Deberg_1990
09-19-2012, 07:50 AM
It is these people that will vote Obama unless they are too ****ing lazy to get out of bed and actually go vote.

Yea, ive said before a lot of this election hinges on voter turnout. I personally think its going to be low. Romney doesn’t excite a lot of traditional conservatives, Obama has lost a lot of his supporters. I think only like 40-50% of eligible aged voters actually vote in a typical election anyways.

Ultra Peanut
09-19-2012, 07:51 AM
This will end up benefitting RomneyThis is good news!!! FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 07:59 AM
I'm glad this will be the discussion. Everyone I know is glad we're now having this discussion because it's true.

It seems simple either you either want a chance to succeed on your own merrits in which case you'll vote Romney.
or
You want the govt to take care of your worthless ass which results in an Obama vote.

The concern of course is the nanny state has grown too large. Personally I don't want a handout and I'm confident in my ability to provide for my family that's how I was raised. I understand that creating jobs broadens the tax base and helps everyone you just have to have enough people willing to work. Hence Romney gets my vote.

Many less fortunate types had parents or single parent that didn't convey this same work ethic to their children because they themselves don't possess it. It is these people that will vote Obama unless they are too ****ing lazy to get out of bed and actually go vote.

Are you saying my Mom wants the govt to take care of her worthless ass for being on SS and Medicare?

patteeu
09-19-2012, 08:00 AM
Are you saying my Mom wants the govt to take care of her worthless ass for being on SS and Medicare?

Is she planning on voting for Obama?

Lightrise
09-19-2012, 08:20 AM
Dear Lightrise,

You have received a warning at ChiefsPlanet.

Reason:
-------
False Thread Title or fake news

Misleading thread title full of false news. Suck it!
-------

Original Post:
8925569
Romney said. "I think people would like to be paying taxes." Well he chose to reveal this on Fox News today. LOL So for all you republicans mesmerized by the Grover Norquist blackmail pledge...READ HIS LIPS...LMAO

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
ChiefsPlanet

Wait a second here. That is an outright fraud to suggest this. There is nothing misleading about that at all. It is clear to me that you do not intend anything other than to suppress opinion that is contrary to your own. Not only did I provide an exact quote, but I told you where the statement was made from. This is not a news site here. It is entirely of opinion. This is a pathetic email.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 08:22 AM
Wait a second here. That is an outright fraud to suggest this. There is nothing misleading about that at all. It is clear to me that you do not intend anything other than to suppress opinion that is contrary to your own. Not only did I provide an exact quote, but I told you where the statement was made from. This is not a news site here. It is entirely of opinion. This is a pathetic email.

Wrong thread. Reported.

Messier
09-19-2012, 08:23 AM
I can't believe there are so many siding with Romney on this. You've got to be pretty hard core neo con to not see this as a bad thing. It's possible the stay a rep and not agree everything Romney says and does. Many reasonable pundits seem capable of supporting Ronmney and correctly pointing out when he's done something stupid. This was stupid.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 08:27 AM
Are you saying my Mom wants the govt to take care of her worthless ass for being on SS and Medicare?

Yes it seems he is. It is frightening that a segment of our population thinks like that.

Amnorix
09-19-2012, 08:30 AM
This will end up benefitting Romney because he's going to be asked about it several times over the next few days and that will give him the chance to say exactly what he was talking about in those off-the-cuff remarks. People will find it incredibly reasonable. It will make those who are hyperventilating over this and declaring his candidacy dead look ridiculous.


Wow.

errr...more like he's screwed himself very badly. He needs to be focusing on the economy and Obama's failures, real and/or perceived, not desperately explaining what he meant in a speech given back in May.

Romney's campaign has been something of a mess to be honest. It's too bad. I think he'd probably make a very good President. Unlike most here, I dont' dislike either, much less both, candidates. Romney keeps barfing on his own shoes however.

BIG_DADDY
09-19-2012, 09:43 AM
Wow.

errr...more like he's screwed himself very badly. He needs to be focusing on the economy and Obama's failures, real and/or perceived, not desperately explaining what he meant in a speech given back in May.

Romney's campaign has been something of a mess to be honest. It's too bad. I think he'd probably make a very good President. Unlike most here, I dont' dislike either, much less both, candidates. Romney keeps barfing on his own shoes however.

This thing was so overblown by the media it's ridiculous.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 09:45 AM
This thing was so overblown by the media it's ridiculous.

People won't like it when they find out someone is trying to manipulate them.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Yes it seems he is. It is frightening that a segment of our population thinks like that.

It's a stereotype plaguing Republican politics. The Dems are feasting on it because guys like Pat, LocoChief and Mitt Romney do nothing but fuel the fire.

"If you don't vote Romney then you're a lazy slacker looking for a government handout".

It's a very narrow minded, un reasonable way of looking at things and the dems are having a field day exposing it. It's getting to the point where all the Dems have to do is keep their mouths shut and walk away with another win.

It's unfortunate because i don't believe that true Republican politics is suppose to look, sound, and feel the way that it does right now.

It's in a bad place, and it needs to return to its roots.

Pitt Gorilla
09-19-2012, 09:55 AM
He doesn't have to unless he's trying to earn the too-literal moron vote.What percentage was he trying to say believe they are victims?

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 09:55 AM
This thing was so overblown by the media it's ridiculous.

When a Candidate says something stupid, it gets overblown. Doesn't matter if it's Obama or Romney.

Don't want it overblown? Don't say something stupid.

I think it's pretty simple, right?

Richard_Cuckold
09-19-2012, 10:01 AM
he shouldnt of said that. He's screwin himself here

dirk digler
09-19-2012, 10:02 AM
Harry Reid read my post

"For all we know, Mitt Romney could be one of those who paid no federal income tax."

-- Sen. Harry Reid, in a speech (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/19/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html) on the Senate floor today.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 10:03 AM
It's a stereotype plaguing Republican politics. The Dems are feasting on it because guys like Pat, LocoChief and Mitt Romney do nothing but fuel the fire.

"If you don't vote Romney then you're a lazy slacker looking for a government handout".

It's a very narrow minded, un reasonable way of looking at things and the dems are having a field day exposing it. It's getting to the point where all the Dems have to do is keep their mouths shut and walk away with another win.

It's unfortunate because i don't believe that true Republican politics is suppose to look, sound, and feel the way that it does right now.

It's in a bad place, and it needs to return to its roots.

I get it. It's no fun hearing the hard truths of grown up talk. Much more enjoyable to be rocked to sleep with the sound of democrat fairy tales in your ears.

TEX
09-19-2012, 10:04 AM
Regardless of what it does to his campaign, I don't have a problem with what he said. Truth hurts.

Yep. And the media is so overblowing it. He didn't say he didn't care about those people. He said he didn't care about their votes because he knows he will never get them.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 10:04 AM
When a Candidate says something stupid, it gets overblown. Doesn't matter if it's Obama or Romney.

Don't want it overblown? Don't say something stupid.

I think it's pretty simple, right?

I generally agree, but--videotape of a candidate speaking to a small group of donors when he doesn't think the general public is going to hear what he says--that's kind of big. A great measure of someone is what they do when they think no one is looking. And the 47% thing was only part of it. Mitt said a lot of other stupid/crazy/offensive stuff in there.

TEX
09-19-2012, 10:06 AM
When a Candidate says something stupid, it gets overblown. Doesn't matter if it's Obama or Romney.

Don't want it overblown? Don't say something stupid.

I think it's pretty simple, right?

Wrong! Obama can get away with saying stupid things and the main stream media is far less likely to overblow it.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 10:07 AM
What percentage was he trying to say believe they are victims?

I don't think the percentage matters. At all.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 10:08 AM
Harry Reid read my post

"For all we know, Mitt Romney could be one of those who paid no federal income tax."

-- Sen. Harry Reid, in a speech (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/19/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html) on the Senate floor today.

Sounds like birther talk to me.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 10:09 AM
Wrong! Obama can get away with saying stupid things and the main stream media is far less likely to overblow it.

No doubt--I hardly heard anything about "you didn't build that." And 60 Minutes didn't even do a story on 57statesgate.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 10:16 AM
Wrong! Obama can get away with saying stupid things and the main stream media is far less likely to overblow it.

:rolleyes:

c'mon......

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 10:18 AM
Yep. And the media is so overblowing it. He didn't say he didn't care about those people. He said he didn't care about their votes because he knows he will never get them.

Ok, well, it's not the truth, and secondly, he's alienating his own Republicans (so he does care about their votes). So yeah, it was a stupid thing to say.

BIG_DADDY
09-19-2012, 11:08 AM
Ok, well, it's not the truth, and secondly, he's alienating his own Republicans (so he does care about their votes). So yeah, it was a stupid thing to say.

I don't think anyone questions just how stupid it was but you are completely wrong about the mainstream media blowing things out of proportion on a partisan level. Where was the outrage over video publicized by the Drudge Report yesterday in which Obama is heard in a 1998 talk advocating government actions that facilitate “redistribution"? What about Obama's Guns and religion comment which got nowhere near as much mainstream coverage?

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 11:17 AM
I don't think anyone questions just how stupid it was but you are completely wrong about the mainstream media blowing things out of proportion on a partisan level. Where was the outrage over video publicized by the Drudge Report yesterday in which Obama is heard in a 1998 talk advocating government actions that facilitate “redistribution"? What about Obama's Guns and religion comment which got nowhere near as much mainstream coverage?

The guns and religion comment got plenty of coverage, and the "outrage" over the 1998 video is probably stuck somewhere last century. All those Y2K issues probably had something to with the missing outrage.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 11:33 AM
Yes it seems he is. It is frightening that a segment of our population thinks like that.

Well my Mom will be pretty shocked to learn that she's definitely voting for Obama, given how much she hates him.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Harry Reid read my post

"For all we know, Mitt Romney could be one of those who paid no federal income tax."

-- Sen. Harry Reid, in a speech (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/19/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html) on the Senate floor today.

There's a really good chance he had a bunch of losses in 2009 or so, and payed no income tax. Which of course is why he won't release his tax returns.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 11:35 AM
Yep. And the media is so overblowing it. He didn't say he didn't care about those people. He said he didn't care about their votes because he knows he will never get them.

So again, just to clarify - you think Romney will never get the vote of any senior citizen on Social Security? If not, then what exactly do you think he meant? Do you even care that his quote makes zero sense?

alpha_omega
09-19-2012, 11:39 AM
I see this thread is still going strong.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 11:59 AM
Are you saying my Mom wants the govt to take care of her worthless ass for being on SS and Medicare?

Is she planning on voting for Obama?

Well my Mom will be pretty shocked to learn that she's definitely voting for Obama, given how much she hates him.

In that case, no. She sounds like a sensible lady who is well informed about politics. Tell her I said hi.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 12:02 PM
I see this thread is still going strong.

People like suzzer (sorry, suzzer, you're just the most recent example) keep it going strong by refusing to understand what Romney was talking about as if to show any sign of comprehension would be to pull a Republican lever in a voting booth.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 12:05 PM
I'm simply analyzing what Romney actually said - which none of you seem to grasp or care that it makes zero sense.

4,000 millionaires in Romney's '47%' (http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxes/romney-income-taxes-millionaires/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

patteeu
09-19-2012, 12:15 PM
I'm simply analyzing what Romney actually said - which none of you seem to grasp or care that it makes zero sense.

4,000 millionaires in Romney's '47%' (http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxes/romney-income-taxes-millionaires/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

I agree that what he actually said makes no sense. That's why it takes something other than pure literalism to understand what he meant.

It would be completely embarrassing if it were a scripted moment at a public campaign event, but it's not. It's an off-the-cuff remark to a private gathering and all that he was interested in doing was communicating with those people. I'm confident that every person in that room understood what he was saying. I understand what he was saying. You could too if you had any real interest in it.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 12:43 PM
I agree that what he actually said makes no sense. That's why it takes something other than pure literalism to understand what he meant.


Seriously, it is as if the whole "You didn't build that" thing never happened. The memory has been wiped clean, and you have no issues with complaining about context, being too literal, etc. It's fascinating how the right-wing mind works (or doesn't).

It would be completely embarrassing if it were a scripted moment at a public campaign event, but it's not. It's an off-the-cuff remark to a private gathering and all that he was interested in doing was communicating with those people. I'm confident that every person in that room understood what he was saying. I understand what he was saying. You could too if you had any real interest in it.

This is what happens when the teleprompter doesn't tell Mitt what to say.

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 12:53 PM
I agree that what he actually said makes no sense. That's why it takes something other than pure literalism to understand what he meant.

It would be completely embarrassing if it were a scripted moment at a public campaign event, but it's not. It's an off-the-cuff remark to a private gathering and all that he was interested in doing was communicating with those people. I'm confident that every person in that room understood what he was saying. I understand what he was saying. You could too if you had any real interest in it.

You sway your interpretation to fit your view. That simple. It doesn't take a brainiac to understand that he's saying fuck you to half the country. Any other view is nothing more than bullshit.

Ultra Peanut
09-19-2012, 12:56 PM
I get it. It's no fun hearing the hard truths of grown up talk. Much more enjoyable to be rocked to sleep with the sound of democrat fairy tales in your ears.There's nothing so glorious as people gulping down childlike, absurdly unrealistic views of how the world works while boasting about how adult they are to be dealing with such "hard truths" like "I'm a hard-working CONTRIBUTOR to society, not like those leeches* who are ruining everything."

*the 50% of the population who control 1-3% of the wealth in America

Ultra Peanut
09-19-2012, 01:01 PM
... a group which a number of people posting in this thread probably fall into, fwiw

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:08 PM
*the 50% of the population who control 1-3% of the wealth in America

Sounds like those people should work harder (or smarter or better).

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 01:11 PM
Sounds like those people should work harder (or smarter or better).

Have you ever spent time in the inner-city? Ever worked with disaffected youth or people on welfare? Ever worked a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving?

If the answer is "Yes", this comment sounds even more ignorant and elitist.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 01:11 PM
Sounds like those people should work harder (or smarter or better).

Yes, those damn soldiers, retirees and students need to get their shit together and start contributing.

Ultra Peanut
09-19-2012, 01:12 PM
Sounds like those people should work harder (or smarter or better).Ameritocracy~~

(the belief in which is not at all a childlike, self-aggrandizing worldview, of course)

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:13 PM
Have you ever spent time in the inner-city? Ever worked with disaffected youth or people on welfare? Ever worked a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving?

If the answer is "Yes", this comment sounds even more ignorant and elitist.

Lol. Donger is the most detached poster on the board. His views don't expand further then his bedroom, newspaper and T.V.

It's not even a question worth asking.

I still love ya though, Donger.

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 01:15 PM
Lol. Donger is the most detached poster on the board. His views don't expand further then his bedroom, newspaper and T.V.


I think Patteau wins that award, hands down.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:16 PM
LMAO

Well, that was easy.

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 01:18 PM
Sounds like those people should work harder (or smarter or better).

Thank goodness you came along and provided a solid means out. Are you actually implying that all they have to do is work harder, smarter or better?

The notion that all people have to do is work harder in this country to obtain wealth is a silly one. Yes, there's a quasi-opportunity there, but let's be realistic. For all intensive purposes there is only a finite amount of money in this country (I'm not going to get into the obama's printing money debate so don't even go there). How is everybody going to get that wealth by working harder, faster, smarter?

KC Dan
09-19-2012, 01:21 PM
Yes, those damn soldiers, retirees and students need to get their shit together and start contributing.I'm one of those damn soldiers that got out of the service (never making $40k/yr), have been working my azz off harder, faster and smarter and now earn 6 figures. No one here is going to tell me that it can't be done because it can. And, if you don't think that it can be done, enjoy your welfare

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 01:22 PM
I'm one of those damn soldiers that got out of the service (never making $40k/yr), have been working my azz off harder, faster and smarter and now earn 6 figures. No one here is going to tell me that it can't be done because it can. And, if you don't think that it can be done, enjoy your welfare

Because the belief that it can or cannot be done is directly related to a person being on welfare....

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:23 PM
I'm one of those damn soldiers that got out of the service (never making $40k/yr), have been working my azz off harder, faster and smarter and now earn 6 figures. No one here is going to tell me that it can't be done because it can. And, if you don't think that it can be done, enjoy your welfare

:rolleyes: yeah, because that's what he said.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:27 PM
I do think it's interesting to put percentages out there, though.

What percentage of Americans are just too stupid to ever "make it"?

What percentage of Americans are just too lazy to ever "make it"?

What percentage of Americans, through no fault of their own, will never "make it"?

KC Dan
09-19-2012, 01:27 PM
:rolleyes: yeah, because that's what he said.nothing on him personally, I just used his post as a quote being ex-military. I just strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that working harder, faster, smarter won't lead you to financial success. I will say that it is of course not guaranteed. But, this country provides us with the freedom and the opportunity to succeed through our efforts and it is happening to a lot of people. If one doesn't work towards a goal of financial freedom through hard work or maybe gets a degree in basket-waeving, good luck with getting above the middle class ever because it ain't gonna be handed to you.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 01:29 PM
I'm one of those damn soldiers that got out of the service (never making $40k/yr), have been working my azz off harder, faster and smarter and now earn 6 figures. No one here is going to tell me that it can't be done because it can. And, if you don't think that it can be done, enjoy your welfare

Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick, you win the "Completely Missing the Point" award. Soldiers in combat zones do not have to pay federal income tax (which is a great policy), thus is included in the 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income tax. According to Romney's statement, they are in the group that can't be made to be responsible to care for their own lives.

I don't give a shit what Romney meant when he was talking. Execution supersedes intention. Fair or unfair, the person running for POTUS needs to always be mindful of his phrasing and choice of words. As he found out, someone is always listening/watching.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:30 PM
nothing on him personally, I just used his post as a quote being ex-military. I just strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that working harder, faster, smarter won't lead you to financial success. I will say that it is of course not guaranteed. But, this country provides us with the freedom and the opportunity to succeed through our efforts and it is happening to a lot of people. If one doesn't work towards a goal of financial freedom through hard work or maybe gets a degree in basket-waeving, good luck with getting above the middle class ever because it ain't gonna be handed to you.

No doubt. And i doubt anyone here, L or R would disagree with you.

But if your small business only yields a net income of, lets say 60K a year, that certainly doesn't make you a leech, nor does it mean that you aren't working hard enough.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:32 PM
Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick, you win the "Completely Missing the Point" award. Soldiers in combat zones do not have to pay federal income tax (which is a great policy), thus is included in the 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income tax. According to Romney's statement, they are in the group that can't be made to be responsible to care for their own lives.

I don't give a shit what Romney meant when he was talking. Execution supersedes intention. Fair or unfair, the person running for POTUS needs to always be mindful of his phrasing and choice of words. As he found out, someone is always listening/watching.

:spock:

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but you think that Romney was including combat soldiers in that group?

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 01:33 PM
:spock:

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to

Yet, here you are, asking questions and making judgments.

:shake:

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:33 PM
:spock:

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but you think that Romney was including combat soldiers in that group?

Even if it was unintentional, he did.

Foot

in

mouth

KC Dan
09-19-2012, 01:34 PM
Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick, you win the "Completely Missing the Point" award. Soldiers in combat zones do not have to pay federal income tax (which is a great policy), thus is included in the 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income tax. According to Romney's statement, they are in the group that can't be made to be responsible to care for their own lives.

I don't give a shit what Romney meant when he was talking. Execution supersedes intention. Fair or unfair, the person running for POTUS needs to always be mindful of his phrasing and choice of words. As he found out, someone is always listening/watching.No, I cought the point. I was just making mine. I agree with what you say in this second para though. But, it works on both sides and unfortunately they not both being held to the same standard by our illustrious media

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:34 PM
No doubt. And i doubt anyone here, L or R would disagree with you.

But if your small business only yields a net income of, lets say 60K a year, that certainly doesn't make you a leech, nor does it mean that you aren't working hard enough.

Okay, this is weird. Based on the following quote, Romney doesn't seem to be referring to such people...

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

What am I missing?

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:35 PM
Yet, here you are, asking questions and making judgments.

:shake:

What judgments? I was trolling above, you dork.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:36 PM
Okay, this is weird. Based on the following quote, Romney doesn't seem to be referring to such people...

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

What am I missing?

Apparently the entire thing.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 01:37 PM
:spock:

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but you think that Romney was including combat soldiers in that group?

Romney said 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, then proceeded to say "those people" can't be made to take responsibility for their own lives. Combat soldiers are in the 47%. If he is going to toss around that stat as a political prop, he needs to understand exactly what makes up that figure so he doesn't stick his foot down his throat. He is just a complete boob as a politician.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:37 PM
Even if it was unintentional, he did.

Foot

in

mouth

No, he didn't. He directly linked those who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing and so on WITH people who pay no income tax.

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 01:37 PM
What judgments? I was trolling above, you dork.

LMAO

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:39 PM
Romney said 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, then proceeded to say "those people" can't be made to take responsibility for their own lives. Combat soldiers are in the 47%. If he is going to toss around that stat as a political prop, he needs to understand exactly what makes up that figure so he doesn't stick his foot down his throat. He is just a complete boob as a politician.

Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 01:39 PM
Furthermore, it doesn't even matter how he said it. It all boils down to him sitting with a bunch of extremely wealthy donors telling them it's their interests he has at heart.

fuck that.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:40 PM
No, he didn't. He directly linked those who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing and so on WITH people who pay no income tax.

Someone else can probably explain it better to you im sure, but it's been explained over and over again every 5 pages or so in this thread.

You need to figure out what's included in that 47%.

Many of which are in fact working Americans who are not on the government teet, among several other groups.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:42 PM
Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.

I'm stunned that you can't figure out that the 47% INCLUDES combat soldiers. And it's not just soldiers.

IT was a stupid foot-in-mouth comment.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 01:43 PM
Okay, this is weird. Based on the following quote, Romney doesn't seem to be referring to such people...

Said Romney: "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

What am I missing?

You are missing the next paragraph:

"And-- and-- I mean the president starts off with 48%, 49%, 40-- or he-- he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. 47% of Americans pay no income taxes. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. And he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that's what they sell every-- every four years"

See the easy link in how he creates that 47% group? Like it or not, the 47% is not made up of welfare queens, like he makes it sound in the following paragraph:

"And-- and so my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5% to 10% in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion."

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 01:43 PM
:spock:

I haven't read the thread, and don't intend to, but you think that Romney was including combat soldiers in that group?

He wasn't thinking in general. He was just spouting off the typical right-wing talking points without ever considering if they are actually valid points.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm stunned that you can't figure out that the 47% INCLUDES combat soldiers. And it's not just soldiers.

IT was a stupid foot-in-mouth comment.

Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 01:47 PM
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.

Understand: Not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet.

You need to read the thread.

There are millions of Americans who don't pay an income Tax who don't live off the government. He's insulted those people, whether he meant to or not.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:48 PM
See the easy link in how he creates that 47% group? Like it or not, the 47% is not made up of welfare queens

Not entirely, no, it isn't. But they are a part of it. Again, the goof seems to be that he threw out a percentage, but it's also clear that he was referring to the people on the government tit who ALSO don't pay any income tax.

Donger
09-19-2012, 01:50 PM
Understand: Not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet.

You need to read the thread.

There are millions of Americans who don't pay an income Tax who don't live off the government. He's insulted those people, whether he meant to or not.

Not sure what's hard to understand about that.

And he didn't say that not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet. He was complaining about the ones who do BOTH.

mikey23545
09-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Yeah, no, I think there's a MASSIVE distinction between combat soldiers serving our country not paying income tax and the people Romney was actually referring to.

I'm stunned that anyone would even attempt to link the two, honestly.

People are feigning great stupidity in their attempts to make Romney's remarks something they aren't. What they are is the truth, minus quibbling over some percentage points.

If they aren't feigning, I really feel sorry for them.

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 01:55 PM
And he didn't say that not paying an income tax does not = sucking the government's teet. He was complaining about the ones who do BOTH.

This is a difference of interpretation. Problem is he equated the 47% with living off the teet.

He even went so far as to say that 47% won't vote for him because of it. You can cry generalization all you want, but when you're giving your strategy and reasons for it, then it is not a generalization. It is what you accept as true.

dirk digler
09-19-2012, 01:56 PM
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.

46% of people in the US don't pay income tax. So it is just a mere coincidence he said 47%?

I am sure conservatives like Bill Kristol and Rich Lowry can't comprehend it and have an agenda.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:00 PM
This is a difference of interpretation. Problem is he equated the 47% with living off the teet.

He even went so far as to say that 47% won't vote for him because of it. You can cry generalization all you want, but when you're giving your strategy and reasons for it, then it is not a generalization. It is what you accept as true.

I think it was probably a mistake to use the 47% number. I agree with that, but he was clearly speaking about the people who suck and pay no income taxes (whatever that percentage actually is). And, he's right; those people would never vote for Romney anyway.

J Diddy
09-19-2012, 02:00 PM
The truly fucking hilarious thing is that those who disagree with the 47% as an actual have no leadership from Romney. He hasn't disputed that number.

Swanman
09-19-2012, 02:01 PM
Again, anyone who can read, comprehend it and who doesn't have an agenda should be able to understand that the last sentence of the above quote is the key. He was SPECIFICALLY referring to the people who ARE sucking on the government's tit AND don't pay any income tax. I would agree that the 47% was probably to much of generalization, however.

It is you that are failing on reading comprehension. Again, the first paragraph:

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax."

He plainly states 47% are with him (Obama) and are dependent on govt, believe they are victims, blah blah. He further clarifies his point stating that 47% pay no income taxes, then further shows that he is a dickhead by making the worst comment, which states that the 47% don't take responsibility for their own lives. Never once did he attempt to bifurcate that 47% into different segments.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:02 PM
46% of people in the US don't pay income tax. So it is just a mere coincidence he said 47%?

What has Romney said after all this? If he is really saying that "all the 47% of Americans who pay no income tax also suck on the government tit," then he's wrong (I think, don't know the actual percentage).

It would be hilarious to hear Romney say those words, though.

dirk digler
09-19-2012, 02:12 PM
What has Romney said after all this? If he is really saying that "all the 47% of Americans who pay no income tax also suck on the government tit," then he's wrong (I think, don't know the actual percentage).

It would be hilarious to hear Romney say those words, though.

I posted the graph earlier in this thread. It is 46%. He said it and it is not some coincidence. He took a shit on half the country including people that support him.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/images/Breakdown3-06-17-11.gif

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:15 PM
I posted the graph earlier in this thread. It is 46%. He said it and he is wrong and shit on half the country including people that support him.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/images/Breakdown3-06-17-11.gif

I must be missing something. It seems reasonable to presume that Romney was referring to the 6.9% and incorrectly lumped in the other 40%, no?

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 02:16 PM
I must be missing something. It seems reasonable to presume that Romney was referring to the 6.9% and incorrectly lumped in the other 40%, no?

I think you're trying to justify a really bad comment that he made.

Rightly so.

I mean, no potential POTUS could be that dumb, right?

patteeu
09-19-2012, 02:17 PM
Lol. Donger is the most detached poster on the board. His views don't expand further then his bedroom, newspaper and T.V.

It's not even a question worth asking.

I still love ya though, Donger.

This isn't true at all. I remember Donger once having an earnest view about his neighbor's garage.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 02:18 PM
I must be missing something. It seems reasonable to presume that Romney was referring to the 6.9% and incorrectly lumped in the other 40%, no?

Its as if you are determined to make the distinction--Mitt's not an asshole, he's just stupid. Hardly seems a distinction worth making.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:20 PM
I think you're trying to justify a really bad comment that he made.

Rightly so.

I mean, no potential POTUS could be that dumb, right?

I've already said that if he was intentionally lumping in the "non-freeloaders," it was a stupid thing to say as well as being wrong. So, no, I'm not justifying it if that was the case.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:21 PM
This isn't true at all. I remember Donger once having an earnest view about his neighbor's garage.

LMAO

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:22 PM
Its as if you are determined to make the distinction--Mitt's not an asshole, he's just stupid. Hardly seems a distinction worth making.

Or, he just spoke poorly. Strange that you neglect to offer that alternative.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 02:22 PM
Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick, you win the "Completely Missing the Point" award. Soldiers in combat zones do not have to pay federal income tax (which is a great policy), thus is included in the 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income tax. According to Romney's statement, they are in the group that can't be made to be responsible to care for their own lives.

I don't give a shit what Romney meant when he was talking. Execution supersedes intention. Fair or unfair, the person running for POTUS needs to always be mindful of his phrasing and choice of words. As he found out, someone is always listening/watching.

How many soldiers spent all of 2011 in combat zones?

And no, Romney didn't include that small group of people in his comments. You can't force him to mean something different than he actually meant, no matter how much you want to.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 02:27 PM
Or, he just spoke poorly. Strange that you neglect to offer that alternative.

Well, he's refused to back down from his comments.

So maybe he meant what he said.

It sucks for Republicans. I don't think this man represents what Republicans preach. He's single handedly sabotaging the Republican Campaign and adding to stereotypes that republicans need to dispel.

He's making it easy on the Dems.

Like i said earlier, all the Dems have to do now is shut up, let this man continue to put his foot in his mouth, sit back and act like the good guy.

patteeu
09-19-2012, 02:28 PM
People are feigning great stupidity in their attempts to make Romney's remarks something they aren't. What they are is the truth, minus quibbling over some percentage points.

If they aren't feigning, I really feel sorry for them.

Yeah, I guess so... some of it may be feigned.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 02:29 PM
Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick, you win the "Completely Missing the Point" award. Soldiers in combat zones do not have to pay federal income tax (which is a great policy), thus is included in the 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income tax. According to Romney's statement, they are in the group that can't be made to be responsible to care for their own lives.

I don't give a shit what Romney meant when he was talking. Execution supersedes intention. Fair or unfair, the person running for POTUS needs to always be mindful of his phrasing and choice of words. As he found out, someone is always listening/watching.

This is the point though. No one in the 47% seems to care that Romney is directly insulting them. They just un-literalize him to really mean he's talking about those people. And we all know who they are (basically whomever we want them to be - just not us - even if he's literally talking about us).

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 02:31 PM
People are feigning great stupidity in their attempts to make Romney's remarks something they aren't. What they are is the truth, minus quibbling over some percentage points.

If they aren't feigning, I really feel sorry for them.

You call 6.9% vs. 47% 'quibbling'? :thumb:

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 02:32 PM
I agree that what he actually said makes no sense. That's why it takes something other than pure literalism to understand what he meant.

It would be completely embarrassing if it were a scripted moment at a public campaign event, but it's not. It's an off-the-cuff remark to a private gathering and all that he was interested in doing was communicating with those people. I'm confident that every person in that room understood what he was saying. I understand what he was saying. You could too if you had any real interest in it.

So even though you have no idea how large this chunk of freeloaders is (and I agree with you these people exist), you know that you feel it's a very large # - so you just substitute that number in your mind for what Romney actually said?

Must be nice for Romney if he can just say whatever stupid, non-factual thing he wants and his supporters will simply replace it with whatever emotionally-biased idea works for them.

His statements are really just Rorschach tests.

suzzer99
09-19-2012, 02:34 PM
From my poker forum:

I knew a guy who was mentally disabled (he's now passed away). He worked a menial job and tried to be a functioning member of society, but he, dare I say, depended on the government for housing and food assistance. And what's more, he didn't even aspire to get out of his situation. He thought he was doing pretty well for himself just where he was. I never helped him with his taxes, but he probably didn't pay any income tax. I used to think of this guy as a good Christian guy with some mental problems who we helped out whenever he needed a hand and with whom my family had roughly nightly 15 second phone calls when he was feeling lonely, but no, I was all wrong. This guy was a leech and a scourge on society, part of that unshakable percentage-less swath of Obama voters out to steal Inso's money.

WV
09-19-2012, 02:35 PM
I agree that what he actually said makes no sense. That's why it takes something other than pure literalism to understand what he meant.

It would be completely embarrassing if it were a scripted moment at a public campaign event, but it's not. It's an off-the-cuff remark to a private gathering and all that he was interested in doing was communicating with those people. I'm confident that every person in that room understood what he was saying. I understand what he was saying. You could too if you had any real interest in it.

You know this doesn't apply to Republicans. Now if Obama had said it......

A Salt Weapon
09-19-2012, 02:37 PM
Paying payroll tax is meaningless if it's all coming back at return time. Anyone who gets back more than they paid in for the year or breaks even is a drain on society. Single mothers that make $4,000 in a year working are getting $6,000 back in the form of a tax return, this isn't even accounting for the foodstamps, housing, and cash money they receive each month. The system is flawed.

The liberals with their free shit for votes is what is bringing down this country.

LiveSteam
09-19-2012, 02:39 PM
Paying payroll tax is meaningless if it's all coming back at return time. Anyone who gets back more than they paid in for the year or breaks even is a drain on society. Single mothers that make $4,000 in a year working are getting $6,000 back in the form of a tax return, this isn't even accounting for the foodstamps, housing, and cash money they receive each month. The system is flawed.

The liberals with their free shit for votes is what is bringing down this country.

Cosmo could save this country. If he would only get a job

vailpass
09-19-2012, 02:40 PM
From my poker forum:

Bullshit story apropos of nothing. I'm wrapping up a half day meeting at the Biltmore, getting ready to grab a cocktail and cigar and proceed to get tight with the tax payers your kind hates and envies so much.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Well, he's refused to back down from his comments.

So maybe he meant what he said.

It sucks for Republicans. I don't think this man represents what Republicans preach. He's single handedly sabotaging the Republican Campaign and adding to stereotypes that republicans need to dispel.

He's making it easy on the Dems.

Like i said earlier, all the Dems have to do now is shut up, let this man continue to put his foot in his mouth, sit back and act like the good guy.

Oh, I don't think it's a fait accompli at this point. You may want it to be, but that doesn't make it so.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Oh, I don't think it's a fait accompli at this point. You may want it to be, but that doesn't make it so.

At this point, no. But it's headed there.

I just think the Republicans coulda done a better job of picking a candidate.

Whom? I have no idea. I don't follow politics closely enough to pretend to know.

But there certainly could've been someone better than this?

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Paying payroll tax is meaningless if it's all coming back at return time. Anyone who gets back more than they paid in for the year or breaks even is a drain on society.

So Mitt Romney is a drain on society? I am a drain on society?

JFC, are you 10 years old?

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 02:49 PM
So Mitt Romney is a drain on society? I am a drain on society?

JFC, are you 10 years old?

Seriously.

I pay enough payroll taxes every month that if i coulda kept it, i could afford a nice shiny new car. Maybe that 2012 Camaro i keep dreaming about.

Sadly "the man" takes it, does whatever with it. I rarely get to see a dime of it back.

Guess im a drain on society.

Shrug.

Whatever.

Donger
09-19-2012, 02:55 PM
So Mitt Romney is a drain on society? I am a drain on society?

JFC, are you 10 years old?

Do you or Mitt Romney pay net $0 taxes?

dirk digler
09-19-2012, 02:55 PM
I must be missing something. It seems reasonable to presume that Romney was referring to the 6.9% and incorrectly lumped in the other 40%, no?

Not a chance. He was spewing RWNJ's talking points and got busted doing it

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 02:58 PM
Do you or Mitt Romney pay net $0 taxes?

Did you read his post?

Paying payroll tax is meaningless if it's all coming back at return time. Anyone who gets back more than they paid in for the year or breaks even is a drain on society

I read this as no tax refund due.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Or, he just spoke poorly. Strange that you neglect to offer that alternative.

He repeated a very common right-wing talking point. He repeated it perfectly (although most round up and just say "half" rather than 47%). He didn't speak poorly. He said exactly what he meant to say.

Donger
09-19-2012, 03:03 PM
Did you read his post?

Yes, I did.

I read this as no tax refund due.

I believe he's referring to payroll taxes (which we all pay) and those who also pay no income tax. I presume you and Romney both pay the latter.

Donger
09-19-2012, 03:05 PM
He repeated a very common right-wing talking point. He repeated it perfectly (although most round up and just say "half" rather than 50%). He didn't speak poorly. He said exactly what he meant to say.

Okay, let's say you are correct and he was tailoring what he was saying to his audience. Do you think Obama has never done the same (or any other politician)?

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 03:07 PM
At this point, no. But it's headed there.

I just think the Republicans coulda done a better job of picking a candidate.

Whom? I have no idea. I don't follow politics closely enough to pretend to know.

But there certainly could've been someone better than this?

Of the group that ran, not really. Newt, Perry, Bachman, Santorum--A scumbag, a dummy, and a couple of nuts.

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 03:11 PM
Okay, let's say you are correct and he was tailoring what he was saying to his audience. Do you think Obama has never done the same (or any other politician)?

Ah yes, the classic, "BUT MA', TIMMY PEED ON THE TOILET SEAT TOOOOO!" rebuttal.

Does it matter? A stupid comment is a stupid comment, no matter who says it. It doesn't detract from the statement Romney made.

Lets not pretend that the R's aren't quick to point out Obama's failings as well.

Not sure why you'd bring that up.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Okay, let's say you are correct and he was tailoring what he was saying to his audience. Do you think Obama has never done the same (or any other politician)?

Of course. Tailoring is fine. But it shouldn't be an embarassment should the tailored message go public. If you're not saying anything inflammatory or deceitful, it wouldn't be embarassing.

Donger
09-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Ah yes, the classic, "BUT MA', TIMMY PEED ON THE TOILET SEAT TOOOOO!" rebuttal.

Does it matter? A stupid comment is a stupid comment, no matter who says it. It doesn't detract from the statement Romney made.

Lets not pretend that the R's aren't quick to point out Obama's failings as well.

Not sure why you'd bring that up.

You can define it however you wish. I'm just pointing out that politicians tailor their message based on the audience. And, Romney wasn't aware this was being recorded.

Remember Obama's "clinging to guns and religion" comment that was also recorded without his knowledge. Or his comment to Putin (much more disturbing than all of these).

Donger
09-19-2012, 03:20 PM
Of course. Tailoring is fine. But it shouldn't be an embarassment should the tailored message go public. If you're not saying anything inflammatory or deceitful, it wouldn't be embarassing.

See above. You were fine with the "clinging to gun and religion" comment?

Ugly Duck
09-19-2012, 03:21 PM
It seems reasonable to presume that Romney was referring to the 6.9% and incorrectly lumped in the other 40%, no?

Most folks, including many Republis, presume that Romney is incorrect in saying that 47% of Americans won't "take personal responsibility and care for their lives" by failing to pay income tax. People who feel they are "entitled to food."

Detoxing
09-19-2012, 03:23 PM
Most folks, including many Republis, presume that Romney is incorrect in saying that 47% of Americans won't "take personal responsibility and care for their lives" by failing to pay income tax. People who feel they are "entitled to food."

Yeah.....but...


A Movie about 3 ass kicking Muslim chicks beating up Old men, robbing banks and shit in the ME....How bad ass is that???

HRMMMM?

The_Grand_Illusion
09-19-2012, 03:25 PM
Okay, let's say you are correct and he was tailoring what he was saying to his audience. Do you think Obama has never done the same (or any other politician)?

Oh he does tailor his message to his audience. The press just doesn't release it if it's going to hurt Obama:

Why Is the L.A. Times Burying the Obama/Khalidi Tape?

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2010/04/21/khalidi-obama-los-angeles-times/2/

Messier
09-19-2012, 03:25 PM
And, Romney wasn't aware this was being recorded.



Doesn't matter. He was speaking in public, he should just assume someone in that room is recording him. You're never just speaking to the room.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 03:26 PM
See above. You were fine with the "clinging to gun and religion" comment?

Not sure what you mean "fine with." It was a dumb comment, but at least not some bogus talking point meant to be passed off as a fact.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 03:29 PM
You can define it however you wish. I'm just pointing out that politicians tailor their message based on the audience. And, Romney wasn't aware this was being recorded.


That's not a point in his favor. Sure, he was telling inflammatory lies to his big donors--but it doesn't count because he didn't know anyone else was listening!

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 03:34 PM
I believe he's referring to payroll taxes (which we all pay) and those who also pay no income tax. I presume you and Romney both pay the latter.

It's hard to know what he's referring to because he's such a drooling Mongo.

DaneMcCloud
09-19-2012, 03:38 PM
Okay, let's say you are correct and he was tailoring what he was saying to his audience. Do you think Obama has never done the same (or any other politician)?

I don't think Romney said anything offensive to his base, which, right or wrong, believes the same thing (whether they're part of the 47% or not).

But with said, his comments won't endear him to many people outside of that base.

Donger
09-19-2012, 03:39 PM
I don't think Romney said anything offensive to his base, which, right or wrong, believes the same thing (whether they're part of the 47% or not).

But with said, his comments won't endear him to many people outside of that base.

The only people that it matters regarding are the independents. I don't know how it will be received by them.