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View Full Version : Obama Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people


Donger
09-19-2012, 04:58 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jmIII4FgDvIW-bij_fdHF4v0Whbw?docId=48328c71af0241c39aef95fda77612f7

WASHINGTON (AP) ó Nearly 6 million Americans ó most of them in the middle class ó will face a tax penalty for not carrying medical coverage once President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law is fully in place, congressional budget analysts said Wednesday.

The new estimate amounts to an inconvenient fact for the administration, a reminder of what critics see as broken promises.

The numbers from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office are significantly higher than a previous projection by the same office in 2010, shortly after the law passed.

The earlier estimate found 4 million people would be affected in 2016, when the penalty is fully in effect. The difference ó 2 million peopleó represents a 50 percent increase.

That's still only a sliver of the population, given that more than 150 million people currently are covered by employer plans. Nonetheless, in his first campaign for the White House, Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000.

And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.

Average penalty: about $1,200 in 2016.

"The bad news and broken promises from Obamacare just keep piling up," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, who wants to repeal the law.

Starting in 2014, virtually every legal resident of the U.S. will be required to carry health insurance or face a tax penalty, with exemptions for financial hardship, religious objections and certain other circumstances. Most people will not have to worry about the requirement since they already have coverage through employers, government programs like Medicare or by buying their own policies.

A spokeswoman for the Obama administration said 98 percent of Americans will not be affected by the tax penalty ó and suggested that those who will be should face up to their civic responsibilities.

"This (analysis) doesn't change the basic fact that the individual responsibility policy will only affect people who can afford health care but choose not to buy it," said Erin Shields Britt of the Health and Human Services Department. "We're no longer going to subsidize the care of those who can afford to buy insurance but make a choice not to buy it."

The budget office said most of the increase in its estimate is due to changes in underlying projections about the economy, incorporating the effects of new federal legislation, as well as higher unemployment and lower wages.

The Supreme Court upheld Obama's law as constitutional in a 5-4 decision this summer, finding that the insurance mandate and the tax penalty enforcing it fall within the power of Congress to impose taxes. The penalty will be collected by the IRS, just like taxes.

The budget office said the penalty will raise $6.9 billion in 2016.

The new law will also provide government aid to help middle-class and low-income households afford coverage, the financial carrot that balances out the penalty.

Nonetheless, some people might still decide to remain uninsured because they object to government mandates or because they feel they would come out ahead financially even if they have to pay the penalty. Health insurance is expensive, with employer-provided family coverage averaging nearly $15,800 a year for a family and $4,300 for a single plan. Indeed, insurance industry experts say the federal penalty may be too low.

The Supreme Court also allowed individual states to opt out of a major Medicaid expansion under the law. The Obama administration says it will exempt low-income people in states that opt out from having to comply with the insurance requirement.

Many Republicans still regard the insurance mandate as unconstitutional and rue the day the Supreme Court upheld it.

However, the idea for an individual insurance requirement comes from Republican health care plans in the 1990s.

It's also a central element of the 2006 Massachusetts health care law signed by then-GOP Gov. Mitt Romney, now running against Obama and promising to repeal the federal law.

Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said Wednesday the new report is more evidence that Obama's law is a "costly disaster."

"Even more of the middle-class families who President Obama promised would see no tax increase will in fact see a massive tax increase thanks to Obamacare," she said.

Romney says insurance mandates should be up to each state. The approach seems to have worked well in Massachusetts, with virtually all residents covered and dwindling numbers opting to pay the penalty instead.

HonestChieffan
09-19-2012, 06:57 PM
Obama is the friend of the middle class. Look how they have prospered under Obama.

cosmo20002
09-19-2012, 07:05 PM
"Even more of the middle-class families who President Obama promised would see no tax increase will in fact see a massive tax increase thanks to Obamacare," she said.


Don't be so literal. Obama was obviously talking about an income tax increase. You can't always be so literal. / Patteau

jjjayb
09-19-2012, 07:09 PM
Don't be so literal. Obama was obviously talking about an income tax increase. You can't always be so literal. / Patteau

Great news! We are lowering your income taxes! We're going to add a new tax to make up for it. But Great News! We lowered your income taxes!

ClevelandBronco
09-19-2012, 07:23 PM
...Obama pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $200,000 a year and couples making less than $250,000...

Yeah, but this isn't a tax, right? No, no, no. Wait a minute. Yes it is. Or it's not. It's a not-a-tax that the IRS collects. Or does it have to be a tax to be Constitutional? Ah, fuck it. They can come and get me if they want their money. It's going to be worthless anyway.

petegz28
09-19-2012, 07:29 PM
Yeah, but this isn't a tax, right? No, no, no. Wait a minute. Yes it is. Or it's not. It's a not-a-tax that the IRS collects. Or does it have to be a tax to be Constitutional? Ah, **** it. They can come and get me if they want their money. It's going to be worthless anyway.

It's a magic-morphing tax. It's only a tax when it needs to be. It morphs between penalty and tax depending on what suits it best at the moment.

BigRedChief
09-19-2012, 07:44 PM
It's time for those freeloaders to start paying their own way.

Comrade Crapski
09-19-2012, 09:35 PM
And the budget office analysis found that nearly 80 percent of those who'll face the penalty would be making up to or less than five times the federal poverty level. Currently that would work out to $55,850 or less for an individual and $115,250 or less for a family of four.



Am I understanding this correctly? I thought $50K/year was middle class. Or so I've been told.

Ad nauseum.

AndChiefs
09-19-2012, 09:47 PM
Am I understanding this correctly? I thought $50K/year was middle class. Or so I've been told.

Ad nauseum.

It says 5 times the federal poverty level..

Comrade Crapski
09-19-2012, 09:49 PM
It says 5 times the federal poverty level..

Got it. :thumb:

:jester:

KILLER_CLOWN
09-20-2012, 12:34 AM
It's time for those nonusers to start paying everyone elses way.

Same as it ever was.

suzzer99
09-20-2012, 02:51 AM
Good. I'm sick of the uninsured driving up my insurance rates and medical bills. If they're going to risk racking up hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in bills that they can never pay - they should at least pay some kind of penalty to offset the risk.

This "free rider problem" is literally the main reason that individual mandates were the Republicans' idea in the first place, remember? http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/02/07/the-tortuous-conservative-history-of-the-individual-mandate/

Conservatives: against any and all kinds of free riders - unless doing something about it is Obama's idea. And in that case we must all weep for the poor free riders.

blaise
09-20-2012, 04:51 AM
Good. I'm sick of the uninsured driving up my insurance rates and medical bills. If they're going to risk racking up hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in bills that they can never pay - they should at least pay some kind of penalty to offset the risk.

This "free rider problem" is literally the main reason that individual mandates were the Republicans' idea in the first place, remember? http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/02/07/the-tortuous-conservative-history-of-the-individual-mandate/

Conservatives: against any and all kinds of free riders - unless doing something about it is Obama's idea. And in that case we must all weep for the poor free riders.


Wow, all those people have racked up hundreds of thousands of medical bills?

patteeu
09-20-2012, 08:04 AM
Don't be so literal. Obama was obviously talking about an income tax increase. You can't always be so literal. / Patteau

I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250k a year will see ANY form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not ANY of your taxes. - Barack Obama lying through his teeth

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8erePM8V5U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

/patteeu

patteeu
09-20-2012, 08:08 AM
It's time for those freeloaders to start paying their own way.

You got that right.

RINGLEADER
09-20-2012, 08:09 AM
Good. I'm sick of the uninsured driving up my insurance rates and medical bills. If they're going to risk racking up hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in bills that they can never pay - they should at least pay some kind of penalty to offset the risk.

This "free rider problem" is literally the main reason that individual mandates were the Republicans' idea in the first place, remember? http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/02/07/the-tortuous-conservative-history-of-the-individual-mandate/

Conservatives: against any and all kinds of free riders - unless doing something about it is Obama's idea. And in that case we must all weep for the poor free riders.

Believe it or not, I mostly agree with this -- unfortunately, you're going to trade any downward pressure afforded by such a system with the extra bureaucracy that government brings. It's too early to tell if Obamacare has the desired result long-term (I'm completely convinced that the system is set up to end Medicare and roll those recipients into this system which could be a good thing in theory), but the government oversight it brings into the system is not a good thing as evidence in similar programs reveals.

Unfortunately, and not surprisingly, politicians are going to act political when it comes to anything they get their hands on. They're not going to worry about the costs until it is too late. I was in favor of single-payer with a carve out for those that want to have better policies. Obamacare puts my ability to get the kind of insurance I want at risk in the name of "fairness," "politics," and a whole host of other reasons that have nothing to do with healthcare.

Saul Good
09-20-2012, 08:18 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8erePM8V5U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

/patteeu

You're a lot smarter than that Patteau guy.

vailpass
09-20-2012, 09:29 AM
The penalty amount is not near large enough to deter people from waiting until they need it to buy insurance.

Just-in-time medical insurance will be the standard for a large segment of the population.

FishingRod
09-20-2012, 09:35 AM
So when someone can’t afford insurance and can’t afford the Tax/penalty then what?

vailpass
09-20-2012, 09:51 AM
So when someone canít afford insurance and canít afford the Tax/penalty then what?

The rest of us pay for it, of course.
Redistribution is the obama way.

Bump
09-20-2012, 10:09 AM
Good. I'm sick of the uninsured driving up my insurance rates and medical bills. If they're going to risk racking up hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in bills that they can never pay - they should at least pay some kind of penalty to offset the risk.

This "free rider problem" is literally the main reason that individual mandates were the Republicans' idea in the first place, remember? http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/02/07/the-tortuous-conservative-history-of-the-individual-mandate/

Conservatives: against any and all kinds of free riders - unless doing something about it is Obama's idea. And in that case we must all weep for the poor free riders.

lol the uninsured does nothing to jack up rates. If anything, you're premiums will go up, a lot with this bill.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2012, 10:51 AM
The penalty amount is not near large enough to deter people from waiting until they need it to buy insurance.

Just-in-time medical insurance will be the standard for a large segment of the population.

This is probably true for a certain segment of the population, but I do think that it's time for the uninsured, especially those that choose to be uninsured, start paying into the system.

I was shocked to learn from my parents a few weeks back the number of people that buy insurance from them just before their car registration is due, then cancel it once they have tags.

And before anyone says "Sounds like a liberal", they live in Kansas.

FishingRod
09-20-2012, 10:53 AM
The rest of us pay for it, of course.
Redistribution is the obama way.

Was looking more for the answer of what recourse doesthe Government have. A criminal charge like tax evasion or if we throw them in debtors prison? If there are 6 million expected to not be able to afford the insurance, logic would dictate a significant percentage of them would also not have the money or choose not to pay the fine/tax. Just pulling a number out of my rear-end 2-5 million people?

BigRedChief
09-20-2012, 09:23 PM
So when someone canít afford insurance and canít afford the Tax/penalty then what?Then they can cut back on something else. Those uninsured are getting any and all their health care needs paid for by tax payers. They are freeloaders buying something else in their lives while the taxpayer picks up their health care bills. That aint right.

suzzer99
09-20-2012, 09:49 PM
Wow, all those people have racked up hundreds of thousands of medical bills?

Individually dumbass.

suzzer99
09-20-2012, 09:50 PM
lol the uninsured does nothing to jack up rates. If anything, you're premiums will go up, a lot with this bill.

You think pays for it when someone stiffs the hospital on a $200,000 bill after a car wreck or multimillion dollar bill after getting bone cancer when they don't have insurance? What magical well do you think that money comes from?

suzzer99
09-20-2012, 09:51 PM
So when someone canít afford insurance and canít afford the Tax/penalty then what?

Nothing. It comes out of any future tax refunds. The bill specifically prohibits the IRS for going after people for not paying the penalty.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2012, 12:27 AM
You think pays for it when someone stiffs the hospital on a $200,000 bill after a car wreck or multimillion dollar bill after getting bone cancer when they don't have insurance? What magical well do you think that money comes from?

I would guess most of it gets written off.

blaise
09-21-2012, 05:39 AM
Individually dumbass.

oh, so many of those people you claim cost you tons of money haven't actually cost you anything at all.

Did they, dumbass?

vailpass
09-21-2012, 07:35 AM
Was looking more for the answer of what recourse doesthe Government have. A criminal charge like tax evasion or if we throw them in debtors prison? If there are 6 million expected to not be able to afford the insurance, logic would dictate a significant percentage of them would also not have the money or choose not to pay the fine/tax. Just pulling a number out of my rear-end 2-5 million people?

No criminal charges. No tax evasion. IRS charged with enforcing through withholding refunds or pursuing the debtor but the wording, so far, indicates they won't be strict on that. No other form of recourse against those who don't pay. Therefore zero incentive to pay for health insurance until you need it.

There is a thread here detailing this, sorry my search abilities/motivations aren't very strong.