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Comrade Crapski
09-23-2012, 05:34 AM
The Atlantic has been on the Millennial beat for a long time, explaining why 20-somethings aren't buying cars or houses or cable subscriptions, not getting married, not having children, and sometimes not even moving out of their parents' basements. The answer, again and again, is the economy.

Unemployment for adults between 20 and 24 is 14%, compared to the national average of 8.1%. But even those with jobs are facing something without modern precedent: Steadily falling annual earnings (graph via Progressive Policy Institute).

http://www.progressivepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/coll-earnings1-e1348153296343.jpg



Real earnings for young grads with a college degree have now declined for six straight years. "Real average earnings for young grads have fallen by over 15% since 2000, or by about $10,000 in constant 2011 dollars," PPI reports.

Meanwhile, the earnings gap between college graduates and non-college graduates is holding steady, a reflection of falling real wages at the low end.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/the-graph-that-should-accompany-every-article-about-millennials-and-economics/262649/

Hopey change! :thumb:

Mr. Flopnuts
09-23-2012, 05:43 AM
So basically ever since George W. Bush took office, it's all gone to shit. And while it's not nosediving as hard under Obama, he sure hasn't done shit to change it. I wonder who we could elect that could fix it?

Comrade Crapski
09-23-2012, 05:46 AM
So basically ever since George W. Bush


LMAO

ClevelandBronco
09-23-2012, 03:01 PM
So basically ever since George W. Bush took office, it's all gone to shit. And while it's not nosediving as hard under Obama, he sure hasn't done shit to change it. I wonder who we could elect that could fix it?

I doubt anyone can. However, you just named two idiots that we know for certain can't fix it.

ChiefaRoo
09-23-2012, 06:25 PM
I doubt anyone can. However, you just named two idiots that we know for certain can't fix it.

WTF are you talking about? We can grow our way out of this mess with proper governance. Our economy is in chains right now.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2012, 10:45 PM
supply and demand. Way too many people getting a degree. You can hire a MS for the same money as a BS in many cases and a lot of low end BS's are going into jobs that were once done by Jr College grads. Colleges and universities are turning out grads knowing full well the kids will have a tough go...its all about the money.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is president.

Saul Good
09-24-2012, 08:15 AM
So basically ever since George W. Bush took office, it's all gone to shit. And while it's not nosediving as hard under Obama, he sure hasn't done shit to change it. I wonder who we could elect that could fix it?

Seems like it was doing pretty well until the Democrats swept to power in 2006.

KC native
09-24-2012, 10:41 AM
Seems like it was doing pretty well until the Democrats swept to power in 2006.

Do you understand how to read a chart?

patteeu
09-24-2012, 11:55 AM
Do you understand how to read a chart?

It looks to me like Bush inherited a situation in which college grad earnings were falling and shortly after he engineered a dramatic turnaround, democrats took over Congress and finished the job of destroying the hopes and dreams of an entire generation. How'd I do?

jiveturkey
09-24-2012, 12:04 PM
It looks to me like Bush inherited a situation in which college grad earnings were falling and shortly after he engineered a dramatic turnaround, democrats took over Congress and finished the job of destroying the hopes and dreams of an entire generation. How'd I do?

So the President is responsible for increases and congress is responsible for decreases???

It looks like there was only a little over a year of significant increases. Not exactly impressive regardless of who gets the credit.

I'd like to see a similar chart that goes back even further.

patteeu
09-24-2012, 12:06 PM
So the President is responsible for increases and congress is responsible for decreases???

It looks like there was only a little over a year of significant increases. Not exactly impressive regardless of who gets the credit.

I'd like to see a similar chart that goes back even further.

My post was TIC.

jiveturkey
09-24-2012, 12:07 PM
My post was TIC.Now that I've read it again I feel like I should have gotten that the first time around.

Garcia Bronco
09-24-2012, 12:21 PM
So basically ever since George W. Bush took office, it's all gone to shit. And while it's not nosediving as hard under Obama, he sure hasn't done shit to change it. I wonder who we could elect that could fix it?

You can't "elect" anyone to fix it. We the People are the problem. It's our own behavior and perception that has caused much of these problems. The other problem we have relative to jobs is the economy has been sheding jobs it should have shed a long time ago. Hardware and software are replacing people everyday. Add to that a global economy where the American worker has priced himself out of a job and you have huge amounts of change that will takes decades to catchup with in terms of education, training, economic growth, quality of life, and politics just to name a few.

It's a new world, but the message is the same

ADAPT OR DIE.

Brock
09-24-2012, 12:25 PM
Everybody's earnings are going backwards. have been for quite some time, i.e. even before satan obama.

htismaqe
09-24-2012, 12:28 PM
You can't "elect" anyone to fix it. We the People are the problem. It's our own behavior and perception that has caused much of these problems. The other problem we have relative to jobs is the economy has been sheding jobs it should have shed a long time ago. Hardware and software are replacing people everyday. Add to that a global economy where the American worker has priced himself out of a job and you have huge amounts of change that will takes decades to catchup with in terms of education, training, economic growth, quality of life, and politics just to name a few.

It's a new world, but the message is the same

ADAPT OR DIE.

:clap:

alnorth
09-24-2012, 04:42 PM
supply and demand. Way too many people getting a degree. You can hire a MS for the same money as a BS in many cases and a lot of low end BS's are going into jobs that were once done by Jr College grads. Colleges and universities are turning out grads knowing full well the kids will have a tough go...its all about the money.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is president.

I don't do this often with a HCF post, but I fully agree with this, 100%.

We'll always need people with advanced and professional degrees, brilliant scientists and researchers, etc and the best and brightest can go do that, but we have massively over-hyped a college education at the expense of the skilled trades.

We've got so many young people turning their noses up at blue collar jobs and going off to borrow $20,000 on some marketing degree that will qualify them to be applicant #504 for the same job, that pretty soon if not now, good plumbers, skilled welders, electricians, etc will be making some pretty decent money.

chiefzilla1501
09-24-2012, 04:59 PM
I don't do this often with a HCF post, but I fully agree with this, 100%.

We'll always need people with advanced and professional degrees, brilliant scientists and researchers, etc and the best and brightest can go do that, but we have massively over-hyped a college education at the expense of the skilled trades.

We've got so many young people turning their noses up at blue collar jobs and going off to borrow $20,000 on some marketing degree that will qualify them to be applicant #504 for the same job, that pretty soon if not now, good plumbers, skilled welders, electricians, etc will be making some pretty decent money.

I do not agree with this at all. What I don't like about skilled trades is it makes our employment base one dimensional. If you become a plumber, you become a plumber for life. So if the supply of plumber gets too high, then plumbers struggle for work. And then where do they go? That's the big problem with government. You have union employees who are taught to do only one thing, so the only way to get them work is to invest in construction projects we don't necessarily need.

College is critical because it gives you the versatility to adjust your career path. You may get a marketing degree and end up in real estate, because that's where the jobs are. What this economy needs is more people to become adaptable, not one dimensional workers.

chiefzilla1501
09-24-2012, 05:10 PM
I have no evidence to back this. But I'd have to think this is largely a symptom of lack of entry level jobs.

Lots of reasons for this. Older people are working well beyond retirement which limits jobs for younger people. And are we seeing a European effect where the public sector is so protective of tenure and continues to negotiate raises beyond the cost of inflation. When your current employee base continues to cost a shitload more to afford, that frees up less opportunity for new entrants.

One of the reasons you have unions is to protect the temptation to fire an expensive, tenured 50 year old teacher so you can hire two 25 year olds. But if you overprotect those with tenure, that makes it real difficult for new jobs to be created in a down economy.

alnorth
09-24-2012, 05:28 PM
I do not agree with this at all. What I don't like about skilled trades is it makes our employment base one dimensional. If you become a plumber, you become a plumber for life. So if the supply of plumber gets too high, then plumbers struggle for work. And then where do they go? That's the big problem with government. You have union employees who are taught to do only one thing, so the only way to get them work is to invest in construction projects we don't necessarily need.

College is critical because it gives you the versatility to adjust your career path. You may get a marketing degree and end up in real estate, because that's where the jobs are. What this economy needs is more people to become adaptable, not one dimensional workers.

I'm not one of those "college is worthless" nuts like the guy who pays smart people not to go to college.

As I said, we have massively overhyped college at the expense of the skilled trades, to the point where we are looking at a labor shortage, and those guys are going to be able to demand good compensation. We still need a lot of people going to college, but I don't understand why you so easily dismiss the skilled trades when the best in that field are never unemployed in any economy.

Brock
09-24-2012, 06:04 PM
I do not agree with this at all. What I don't like about skilled trades is it makes our employment base one dimensional. If you become a plumber, you become a plumber for life. So if the supply of plumber gets too high, then plumbers struggle for work. And then where do they go? That's the big problem with government. You have union employees who are taught to do only one thing, so the only way to get them work is to invest in construction projects we don't necessarily need.

College is critical because it gives you the versatility to adjust your career path. You may get a marketing degree and end up in real estate, because that's where the jobs are. What this economy needs is more people to become adaptable, not one dimensional workers.

This is pretty much bullcrap. College isn't for everybody. It's a big problem that everybody has it drilled into their heads that a college degree is the new high school diploma. First off, a lot of people can't handle college to begin with, and can't hack advanced science and math, so they go buy degrees that are worthless in business, and we end up with a country of people who don't know how to fix anything.

The idea that vocational training, be it plumbing, electrical, automotive, or manufacturing is a dead end job is stupid. These fields are changing and advancing and becoming more and more technical every year. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Young people aren't going for these jobs for the aforementioned reasons, and that's why you see a bunch of middle aged people doing it with no apprentices behind them learning how to do it.

J Diddy
09-24-2012, 06:13 PM
This is pretty much bullcrap. College isn't for everybody. It's a big problem that everybody has it drilled into their heads that a college degree is the new high school diploma. First off, a lot of people can't handle college to begin with, and can't hack advanced science and math, so they go buy degrees that are worthless in business, and we end up with a country of people who don't know how to fix anything.

The idea that vocational training, be it plumbing, electrical, automotive, or manufacturing is a dead end job is stupid. These fields are changing and advancing and becoming more and more technical every year. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Young people aren't going for these jobs for the aforementioned reasons, and that's why you see a bunch of middle aged people doing it with no apprentices behind them learning how to do it.

I have a philosophy class in which one of the students basically said it's bullshit to have to take all these other classes to get a degree in (whatever) My prof schooled his monkey ass. went something like this:

You do realize that there are voc. degrees and associates degrees that you could have went to a lot cheaper don't you? You realize that that's not what a University is for, a university is for someone to get educated? You do realize that don't you? You don't? Didn't you look into where you were spending your money before you signed up? You do realize that it is your money you're spending, because you have to pay it back right?


The kid looked like he hadn't thought one thing through but realized at the end that he shouldn't have bitched about a class that he had to take to a prof who was teaching it.

Brock
09-24-2012, 06:21 PM
I have a philosophy class in which one of the students basically said it's bullshit to have to take all these other classes to get a degree in (whatever) My prof schooled his monkey ass. went something like this:

You do realize that there are voc. degrees and associates degrees that you could have went to a lot cheaper don't you? You realize that that's not what a University is for, a university is for someone to get educated? You do realize that don't you? You don't? Didn't you look into where you were spending your money before you signed up? You do realize that it is your money you're spending, because you have to pay it back right?


The kid looked like he hadn't thought one thing through but realized at the end that he shouldn't have bitched about a class that he had to take to a prof who was teaching it.

Case in point. A guy who doesn't know why he's there, other than he's been told his whole life that he has to do it.

DaneMcCloud
09-24-2012, 06:22 PM
I do not agree with this at all. What I don't like about skilled trades is it makes our employment base one dimensional. If you become a plumber, you become a plumber for life. So if the supply of plumber gets too high, then plumbers struggle for work. And then where do they go? That's the big problem with government. You have union employees who are taught to do only one thing, so the only way to get them work is to invest in construction projects we don't necessarily need.

:shake:

Plumbers not needed and struggle for work? Where the hell do you live?

LMAO

College is critical because it gives you the versatility to adjust your career path. You may get a marketing degree and end up in real estate, because that's where the jobs are. What this economy needs is more people to become adaptable, not one dimensional workers.

Why should someone spend $28k to $150k on college to become a real estate agent? JFC, I had no idea that you were as retarded in real life as you are about football.

chiefzilla1501
09-24-2012, 06:44 PM
:shake:

Plumbers not needed and struggle for work? Where the hell do you live?

LMAO
I am talking about how specialized labor is at the mercy of the market for that one particular trade. There are millions of people whose jobs are being replaced by robots and machines, but their skill set is so specialized that they have nowhere to go. There are people who made a living off of advanced photo development technology whose jobs are gone because the market disappeared. In the public sector we are constantly creating jobs that don't exist just so we can keep skilled specialists employed. And in many cases, we protect jobs that machines can do because you have an obligation to keep that laborer around (even though a machine can do it cheaper and better).

I'm not saying plumbers struggle for work. I'm saying a day could come where your market isn't attractive for plumbing. And if that's the case, suddenly you become a 45-year old guy with an advanced skill set and nowhere to go.


Why should someone spend $28k to $150k on college to become a real estate agent? JFC, I had no idea that you were as retarded in real life as you are about football.
I'm pointing out that a diversified education gives you ability to move to where the market is. If you graduate with a degree in economics, you may not get a job as an economist, but you may get a job in market research. Because you have learned the ability to problem solve, basic fundamental math, basic logic, communications, etc... there are thousands of career paths you can migrate toward. And that also means that if you're laid off from your current job, you can easily career switch.