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View Full Version : General Politics Just saw my first Obama non-attack ad


mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 09:06 AM
I live near Iowa and watch their local stations so I've seen a lot of ads.

I finally saw an Obama ad that didn't attack Romney, instead it focused on how bad things were when Obama came to office and how Obama is leading us to the promised land. Forward.

Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market.

Obama's elitist policies and call to kill the coal industry should be reason enough for him not to be re-elected. We can't kill our cheapest form of energy and expect to compete in the global economy.

I find it amazing some are still buying his snake oil.

stonedstooge
09-23-2012, 09:16 AM
Elections every year need funding. Duh

InChiefsHell
09-23-2012, 09:17 AM
He just needs more time. FORWARD!

jiveturkey
09-23-2012, 09:22 AM
So you support 0 government investment in green technology?

We'll just wait around for the Chinese to control every aspect of the green sector (current on pace to kick everyone's ass in solar) and then hand more money over to them. Step two = bitching about the Chinese controlling the green sector and wondering why we didn't do more.

J Diddy
09-23-2012, 09:24 AM
It's common sense. Unless you throw everything out the window that scientists have proven.

BigRedChief
09-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market. Sure, lets sit on our hands and let the Chinese get a monopoly on that market. Go America! :thumb:

HonestChieffan
09-23-2012, 10:12 AM
So many commercial success have come about as a result of government directive.

mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 10:15 AM
So you support 0 government investment in green technology?

We'll just wait around for the Chinese to control every aspect of the green sector (current on pace to kick everyone's ass in solar) and then hand more money over to them. Step two = bitching about the Chinese controlling the green sector and wondering why we didn't do more.I don't support killing an industry that will provide us cheap energy for several lifetimes while at the same time throw money towards an energy source that at best is just a supplement. Especially with our debt.

The administration has proven government shouldn't be in the business of picking winners and losers.

mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 10:19 AM
It's common sense. Unless you throw everything out the window that scientists have proven.
If common sense is putting yourself at a disadvantage when you're already 16T in debt and growing, you need to reevaluate the definition of 'common sense'.

tredadda
09-23-2012, 10:29 AM
I live near Iowa and watch their local stations so I've seen a lot of ads.

I finally saw an Obama ad that didn't attack Romney, instead it focused on how bad things were when Obama came to office and how Obama is leading us to the promised land. Forward.

Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market.

Obama's elitist policies and call to kill the coal industry should be reason enough for him not to be re-elected. We can't kill our cheapest form of energy and expect to compete in the global economy.

I find it amazing some are still buying his snake oil.

Saw the same commercial in Colorado. I hate being in a battleground state as we get inundated with political ads from both politicians and all these political groups. Sadly it will only get worse as Nov draws closer. Also the govt subsidizes all sorts of research, why shouldn't they subsidize green energy as fossil fuels are finite and won't last forever.

Comrade Crapski
09-23-2012, 10:39 AM
Is he bringing that worthless douchebag Van Jones back to be the "green czar"?

LMAO

mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 10:39 AM
Saw the same commercial in Colorado. I hate being in a battleground state as we get inundated with political ads from both politicians and all these political groups. Sadly it will only get worse as Nov draws closer. Also the govt subsidizes all sorts of research, why shouldn't they subsidize green energy as fossil fuels are finite and won't last forever.

Because they have decided green energy is more important than cheap energy, even though it will never, ever replace it. You have no problem with Obama killing coal? When our economy is heading toward a cliff?

How does that make us competitive in the future?

People letting Obama getting away with this can't see the forest thru the trees.

Radar Chief
09-23-2012, 10:47 AM
So you support 0 government investment in green technology?

We'll just wait around for the Chinese to control every aspect of the green sector (current on pace to kick everyone's ass in solar) and then hand more money over to them. Step two = bitching about the Chinese controlling the green sector and wondering why we didn't do more.

How so?
Unless they've had some huge breakthrough in the efficiency of photovoltaic cells they're no further along than we are.

Comrade Crapski
09-23-2012, 10:49 AM
Because they have decided green energy is more important than cheap energy, even though it will never, ever replace it. You have no problem with Obama killing coal? When our economy is heading toward a cliff?

How does that make us competitive in the future?

People letting Obama getting away with this can't see the forest thru the trees.

This is Obama's idea of job creation:

Coal producer Alpha Natural Resources said Tuesday it's cutting production by 16 million tons and eliminating 1,200 jobs companywide, including 400 with the immediate closing of eight mines in Virginia, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

The mine shutdowns start Tuesday, while the rest of the layoffs will be completed by the end of the first quarter after Alpha fulfills current sales obligations, Chief Executive Officer Kevin Crutchfield said. In all, the layoffs amount to nearly a tenth of Alpha's 13,000-person work force.

Alpha said it is closing four mines in West Virginia, three in Virginia and one in Pennsylvania. They are a mix of deep and surface mines. All the mines being closed are non-union operations.

Alpha didn't immediately name the mines because they wanted to inform all the workers first.

Though some miners will stay on to seal the operations, most will either be reassigned or laid off immediately.

Support positions will also be cut proportionally as Alpha reduces its operating regions from four to two, Crutchfield said, and two executives will retire Nov. 1.

Crutchfield called it "a difficult day," but said the shutdowns and layoffs are a necessary part of ensuring Alpha survives in what has become a difficult U.S. market, where coal companies face a dual challenge: Power plants are shifting to cheap, abundant natural gas, while companies like his face "a regulatory environment that's aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal."

"We think the actions we're taking are aimed at getting ahead of this on a proactive basis and getting set up for 2013 going forward," he said.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201209180831APONLINEFIN_BUS__US_Alpha_Layoffs-1&params=timestamp||09/18/2012%208:31%20AM%20ET||headline||Alpha%20closing%208%20mines%2C%20cutting%201%2C200%20jobs%20in%20al l||docSource||AP%20Online||provider||ACQUIREMEDIA||bridgesymbol||US;ANR&ticker=ANR

tredadda
09-23-2012, 01:36 PM
Because they have decided green energy is more important than cheap energy, even though it will never, ever replace it. You have no problem with Obama killing coal? When our economy is heading toward a cliff?

How does that make us competitive in the future?

People letting Obama getting away with this can't see the forest thru the trees.

Slow down there hero.

1. Considering fossil fuels are FINITE meaning there is only a limited amount of them, what will replace them if not green energy?

2. When did I ever mention even ONCE in the year and a half I have been on this board that I was cool with Obama killing coal?

3. When should we invest in a replacement for fossil fuels? Should we do it now when we still have enough to meet our needs or should we scramble at the last second when they are almost gone and thusly have no choice?

La literatura
09-23-2012, 01:40 PM
Wind farms are big in Iowa.

Baby Lee
09-23-2012, 02:16 PM
Slow down there hero.

1. Considering fossil fuels are FINITE meaning there is only a limited amount of them, what will replace them if not green energy?

2. When did I ever mention even ONCE in the year and a half I have been on this board that I was cool with Obama killing coal?

3. When should we invest in a replacement for fossil fuels? Should we do it now when we still have enough to meet our needs or should we scramble at the last second when they are almost gone and thusly have no choice?

There's finite, then there's FINITE. Our timeline on coal goes into the 100s of years.

tredadda
09-23-2012, 02:23 PM
There's finite, then there's FINITE. Our timeline on coal goes into the 100s of years.

Populations are still increasing, not decreasing. Do those numbers take the ever increasing populations into effect?

AustinChief
09-23-2012, 02:31 PM
I have NO PROBLEM with investing in green energy RESEARCH.. but that is NOT what this administration's primary focus has been. Instead they are focused on ADOPTION. They are trying to accomplish this by subsidizing the not-ready-for-primetime green energy sector WHILE doing everything they can to kill the fossil fuel industry.

It's beyond stupid. It's short sighted and likely to backfire.

tredadda
09-23-2012, 02:34 PM
I have NO PROBLEM with investing in green energy RESEARCH.. but that is NOT what this administration's primary focus has been. Instead they are focused on ADOPTION. They are trying to accomplish this by subsidizing the not-ready-for-primetime green energy sector WHILE doing everything they can to kill the fossil fuel industry.

It's beyond stupid. It's short sighted and likely to backfire.

I can agree with that, but to not invest in green energy research is foolhardy at best.

AustinChief
09-23-2012, 02:41 PM
I can agree with that, but to not invest in green energy research is foolhardy at best.

I agree, unfortunately politicians don't have a scrap of patience and rarely look at the big picture.

Hoover
09-23-2012, 02:43 PM
While I wouldn't be reminding people about Solyndra (SP) when you see an add like that you know who's winning.

Too bad Romney is such a $hit candidate

mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 03:14 PM
I have NO PROBLEM with investing in green energy RESEARCH.. but that is NOT what this administration's primary focus has been. Instead they are focused on ADOPTION. They are trying to accomplish this by subsidizing the not-ready-for-primetime green energy sector WHILE doing everything they can to kill the fossil fuel industry.

It's beyond stupid. It's short sighted and likely to backfire.
Yup, and was my point.

AustinChief
09-23-2012, 03:18 PM
Yup, and was my point.

I know, but it was such a good point I felt like I should steal it! :D

mlyonsd
09-23-2012, 03:29 PM
I know, but it was such a good point I felt like I should steal it! :D
Hey it's your board.

Well, and you're much more eloquent then I am.

SNR
09-23-2012, 03:36 PM
Sure, lets sit on our hands and let the Chinese get a monopoly on that market. Go America! :thumb:

Link? The Chinese are investing in green technology?

WV
09-23-2012, 03:52 PM
I have NO PROBLEM with investing in green energy RESEARCH.. but that is NOT what this administration's primary focus has been. Instead they are focused on ADOPTION. They are trying to accomplish this by subsidizing the not-ready-for-primetime green energy sector WHILE doing everything they can to kill the fossil fuel industry.

It's beyond stupid. It's short sighted and likely to backfire.

Great post. Obama's policies and unfortunately our sheep governer are killing the Coal industry in WV. While I can agree that green alternative solutions are needed, Coal is the economical mainstay of WV and killing it almost equates to killing this state. Yet Biden claims Obama considers the common man before every decision.

qabbaan
09-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Here in FL, I just keep seeing the Obama attack ad saying Romney will ship all our jobs to China. Over and over and freaking over.

J Diddy
09-23-2012, 05:36 PM
Link? The Chinese are investing in green technology?

Google this: Chinese green technology

LiveSteam
09-23-2012, 07:01 PM
Google this: Chinese green technology

Made in China? A History of Reverse Engineering
Great story Bro

http://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2011/08/made-in-china-history-of-reverse.html

ChiefaRoo
09-23-2012, 07:09 PM
So you support 0 government investment in green technology?

We'll just wait around for the Chinese to control every aspect of the green sector (current on pace to kick everyone's ass in solar) and then hand more money over to them. Step two = bitching about the Chinese controlling the green sector and wondering why we didn't do more.

China has a parasitic economy that is export driven. If they are going to dominate any market it's because the barrier to entry is low and they can produce average to low quality products in volume. Solar is not high tech. It's a big fairy tail to think it is. If some genius scientist can figure out how to make it much more efficient then that might change the equation but until then it's just a function of low tech labor and economies of scale.

To put it another way. We aren't ceding the cheap sunglasses market eventhough you can buy two pair of Ray Ban knockoffs in Shanghai for $3 (Which I've done).

ChiefaRoo
09-23-2012, 07:19 PM
Slow down there hero.

1. Considering fossil fuels are FINITE meaning there is only a limited amount of them, what will replace them if not green energy?

2. When did I ever mention even ONCE in the year and a half I have been on this board that I was cool with Obama killing coal?

3. When should we invest in a replacement for fossil fuels? Should we do it now when we still have enough to meet our needs or should we scramble at the last second when they are almost gone and thusly have no choice?

We have over two hundred years of coal reserves.

LiveSteam
09-23-2012, 07:24 PM
I love this add.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/36312_10151035264070773_1329171753_n.jpg

Baby Lee
09-23-2012, 07:43 PM
We have over two hundred years of coal reserves.

Q

J Diddy
09-23-2012, 07:52 PM
Made in China? A History of Reverse Engineering
Great story Bro

http://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2011/08/made-in-china-history-of-reverse.html

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to read a blog. What I recommended was googling and finding the infinite amount of hits that talk about Chinese and the green energy market.

AustinChief
09-23-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to read a blog. What I recommended was googling and finding the infinite amount of hits that talk about Chinese and the green energy market.

They are definitely investing in green energy but it's hard to come by specifics other than the useless things like ramping up production of soon to be outdated solar panels and the like. Until China proves in can actually INNOVATE, I am not one bit concerned. India on the other hand is a different story.

The smart play is to invest heavily in the tech without wasting money on production until it makes sense. Right now it makes little to no sense without massive unreasonable subsidies COMBINED with penalties on other industries. That is just plain STUPID. Obama and his people should be CRUCIFIED for the sheer stupidity of our current approach.

bsp4444
09-23-2012, 08:11 PM
So many commercial success have come about as a result of government directive.

Better fuel economy in cars being one.

RedNeckRaider
09-23-2012, 08:21 PM
Better fuel economy in cars being one.

When GM goes broke again, which it will, I might try to get a deal on one of those Volt go carts~

ChiefaRoo
09-23-2012, 08:35 PM
They are definitely investing in green energy but it's hard to come by specifics other than the useless things like ramping up production of soon to be outdated solar panels and the like. Until China proves in can actually INNOVATE, I am not one bit concerned. India on the other hand is a different story.

The smart play is to invest heavily in the tech without wasting money on production until it makes sense. Right now it makes little to no sense without massive unreasonable subsidies COMBINED with penalties on other industries. That is just plain STUPID. Obama and his people should be CRUCIFIED for the sheer stupidity of our current approach.

Correct .. Obama has got to go.

Baby Lee
09-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Better fuel economy in cars being one.

Better fuel economy came from Japan's market innovation, not government insistence.

cdcox
09-23-2012, 08:44 PM
Coal usage is going down. It's just too expensive to control even the conventional pollutants that protect human health. It will continue to be used because of all the existing capital inventory, but fewer and fewer new coal plants are going to be constructed. Natural gas is displacing some of its share because it is cleaner and cheaper. Nuclear has extremely high capital costs so utilities are slow to bear that risk. Renewables are a significant fraction of electrical generating capacity even now and will continue to be an important component. The key is to have a diverse generating portfolio so that the utilities can respond effectively to changing conditions. So coal will be important, but not as much as in the past.

cosmo20002
09-23-2012, 09:19 PM
I love this add.



:facepalm:

go bowe
09-23-2012, 11:28 PM
I live near Iowa and watch their local stations so I've seen a lot of ads.

I finally saw an Obama ad that didn't attack Romney, instead it focused on how bad things were when Obama came to office and how Obama is leading us to the promised land. Forward.

Anyway, one line in the ad states Obama will continue to support (throw your tax dollars) towards green energy.

WTF? Didn't we already learn this lesson? If green energy is going to succeed it only should in the open market.

Obama's elitist policies and call to kill the coal industry should be reason enough for him not to be re-elected. We can't kill our cheapest form of energy and expect to compete in the global economy.

I find it amazing some are still buying his snake oil.

i could be mistaken but i think i've read somewhere that natural gas is becoming cheaper than coal for generating electricity...

and we've been discovering shit tons of gas in all kinds of places, even in ohio of all places...

go bowe
09-23-2012, 11:35 PM
ooops, seedy already covered this...

AustinChief
09-24-2012, 12:17 AM
i could be mistaken but i think i've read somewhere that natural gas is becoming cheaper than coal for generating electricity...

and we've been discovering shit tons of gas in all kinds of places, even in ohio of all places...

..and once again Obama's administration has made it hard on them to wade through a sea of restrictive regulations. Yes, Obama has talked a good game about natural gas but he has done jack shit in reality except to block and over regulate development.

Don't get me wrong, coal, oil, natural gas... all are dead ends that we will need to move away from. No one can deny that. I just don't support the completely unnatural approach of government mandates to do so.

Here is where my libertarian friends will hate me... I DO support government funding for research though. I'd love for private companies to fund all the research that is needed but this is too important an issue (especially regarding national security) to leave to any kind of chance. Good news: DARPA and the US Navy have been working in these fields for years. Bad news: they are woefully underfunded.

Comrade Crapski
09-25-2012, 12:00 AM
I love this add.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/36312_10151035264070773_1329171753_n.jpg

bump

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 12:27 AM
..and once again Obama's administration has made it hard on them to wade through a sea of restrictive regulations. Yes, Obama has talked a good game about natural gas but he has done jack shit in reality except to block and over regulate development.

Don't get me wrong, coal, oil, natural gas... all are dead ends that we will need to move away from. No one can deny that. I just don't support the completely unnatural approach of government mandates to do so.

Here is where my libertarian friends will hate me... I DO support government funding for research though. I'd love for private companies to fund all the research that is needed but this is too important an issue (especially regarding national security) to leave to any kind of chance. Good news: DARPA and the US Navy have been working in these fields for years. Bad news: they are woefully underfunded.

I would disagree with what you said about mandates. As sad as it may sound, and I am preparing myself for a blasting, truth is jack shit gets done without a mandate.

Without a reliable mixture of green energy and gasoline we're going to be in a world of hurt. With China's increase in energy needs driving up the price of fuel in the global market it is only going to get worse. Not to mention, all these sources of energy are finite, so when do we place the mandate? When shit's getting real and scramble or getting ahead of the game and maybe just maybe save a little planet for my kid to enjoy.

InChiefsHell
09-25-2012, 06:14 AM
compressed natural gas. Liquified Natural gas. It's here and it's abundant and it's cheap. The conversion will take time, but once infrastructure is built, there is no reason to believe we would not be off gasoline. Probably another 30 years I'd bet. And it's market driven.

Estimates are anywhere from 100 to 300 years worth, and more is being found here in America all the time.