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Direckshun
09-24-2012, 03:35 PM
Education.

He has allowed tens of states to get out from under No Child Left Behind, while instituting Race To The Top in the stimulus package, which has allowed over half the country's states to institutde widely praised upgrades in infrastructure, technology, and test-based measurements of teachers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/rethinking-the-classroom-obamas-overhaul-of-public-education/2012/09/20/a5459346-e171-11e1-ae7f-d2a13e249eb2_story.html?wprss=rss_politics

Rethinking the Classroom: Obama’s overhaul of public education
By Lyndsey Layton
September 20

In 31 / 2 years in office, President Obama has set in motion a broad overhaul of public education from kindergarten through high school, largely bypassing Congress and inducing states to adopt landmark changes that none of his predecessors attempted.

He awarded billions of dollars in stimulus funding to states that agreed to promote charter schools, use student test scores to evaluate teachers and embrace other administration-backed policies. And he has effectively rewritten No Child Left Behind, the federal law passed by Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, by excusing states from its requirements if they adopt his measures.

Under Obama’s framework, teachers with weak ratings tied to student achievement could lose their jobs, while high ratings could mean bigger paychecks. And children in 45 states and the District of Columbia will for the first time follow a set of common standards aimed at raising achievement, with a third-grader in Hawaii expected to know the same things as a third-grader in Maine. One result will be that children at all levels will read less literature and more speeches, journalism and other “informational texts” to prepare for life after graduation.

Obama’s agenda has amplified ideas that have been simmering around the country, including those championed by Republicans, among them the push to give parents more choice about where children attend school and to blast apart a long-standing system that rewarded teachers for longevity but not necessarily effectiveness.

The president has said changes are needed to close the persistent gap between poor and privileged students, drive up high school graduation rates and produce a workforce that can compete globally.

But it is impossible to predict whether his policies, which are years from full implementation, will work. There is little or no research showing that these measures lead to better-educated children or higher graduation rates. Unions and some parents contend that Obama’s approach overemphasizes testing and crowds out the arts and other subjects.

There is wide agreement, however, that the administration has been particularly successful at pushing through its flavor of education policy.

Critics see overreach

“They’ve taken their concept of reform, like it or not, laid it out very directly, put the resources around it and moved to drive state practices,” said Gene Wilhoit, executive director of the Council of Chief State School Officers, a nonpartisan group that represents state education officials.

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), who chairs the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, said he recognizes the effort the administration has poured into education, even as he argues that Obama has overreached.

“They’ve been extraordinarily aggressive and engaged,” he said.

The Obama education agenda, which relies on competition, accountability and other market concepts, has provoked controversy around the country.

Last week, unionized teachers in Chicago walked out of their classrooms for the first time in 25 years in a strike over proposals similar to Obama’s, including revamped teacher evaluations and ending job security based only on seniority.

Civil rights groups also have raised questions about Obama’s proposals, worried that stepping away from No Child Left Behind will ease pressure on states to help poor children perform as well as their wealthier classmates.

Going around Congress

Obama was able to propel change two ways. With states clamoring for relief from No Child Left Behind, and Congress stalled five years over reauthorizing it, the president forged ahead with his agenda rather than waiting for Congress to act.

He used his authority to issue waivers from No Child Left Behind to 33 states.

The administration also leveraged $4.3 billion in stimulus money that Congress approved for education, creating a series of competitive grants known as Race to the Top, pumping to a new level this type of award. In the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, federal officials dangled the stimulus money to persuade struggling states to make big policy shifts.

“They’ve pioneered it,” said Chester E. Finn Jr., president of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a conservative research group. “Making states compete for a limited pot of money and awarding it to the most serious state is pretty unusual.”

So far, 18 states and the District of Columbia have won grants, but more than half of the states have tried — and each had to adopt policies favored by the Obama administration in order to compete. That led 28 states to change a total of 100 laws or policies, the Education Department reports.

The California legislature, for example, threw out a law that prohibited schools from using student test scores to evaluate teachers.

The administration also made it clear that, to compete, states needed to embrace a new, common set of demanding academic standards or similiar benchmarks.

Massachusetts, home to some of the strongest academic standards in the country, ditched its framework to adopt the common standards in 2010 so it could apply for the grants. The state was awarded $250 million.

Although the standards were written by a consortium of state leaders and the federal government was not involved, some states refused to participate.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) said in a statement that Texas would not compete in Race to the Top because it would be “foolish and irresponsible to place our children’s future in the hands of unelected bureaucrats and special-interest groups thousands of miles away in Washington.”

Undeterred by the state’s resistance, the administration in May announced a round of grants that will be awarded to individual districts. That would allow Houston, for example, to apply even if Texas remained uninterested.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan likes to point out that Race to the Top funding represents less than 1 percent of the $500 billion spent in this country annually for elementary and high school education, but that it has had an outsized impact.

“This minor provision in the Recovery Act has unleashed an avalanche of pent-up education reform activity at the state and local level,” Duncan said in a speech at the National Press Club last year.

‘Crazy-quilt thing’

With 33 states excused from No Child Left Behind and six other waivers pending, more than half the country is now adhering to the administration’s educational policies, rather than those formed by Congress.

Some critics say the result is a complicated patchwork, with each state crafting its own reforms and accountability measures.

“The crazy-quilt thing completely obfuscates the transparency that No Child Left Behind brought to bear,” said Margaret Spellings, who was education secretary under George W. Bush and now advises the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and others on education issues. “Even the most learned wonk can barely decipher what’s going on, let alone a teacher or a parent. His people are passing judgment on state policy. And instead of a national framework, we now have 50 different systems.”

States that received waivers are in various stages of planning and implementation. A handful have begun using the common standards, while most will have them in place by the school year that begins in the fall of 2013. That will require many states to rewrite curriculum and tests and retrain teachers.

School administrators around the country are working on strategies aimed at lifting the performance of students in their worst schools, including longer school days and greater individualized attention. And most states are working out the thorny details of teacher evaluation systems, a process that has prompted collaboration with unions in some places and conflict in others.

Unions bristle

Teachers unions, a core Democratic constituency, bristled at several of the policies, particularly the idea of merit pay and linking teacher evaluations to student performance.

States were required to consult with teachers unions in seeking waivers, but unions remain concerned about the way the new systems are being implemented. Their leaders worry that states will place too much emphasis on student test scores, and they say it is unfair to blame a teacher whose students are struggling with poverty, violence and other factors that make it difficult for them to perform well in school. Complicating the matter is that none of the school systems that have begun using new teacher evaluation systems, including the District’s, have developed a model satisfactory to both sides — the school districts are regularly tweaking and changing their systems.

Still, the National Education Assocation and the American Federation of Teachers both have endorsed Obama.

“We agree on where we ought to be going as a nation, to fulfill the promise of public education so that every kid has a shot,” said NEA head Dennis Van Roekel, who has monthly breakfasts with Duncan. “It’s good to fight over these issues.”

While Republicans on Capitol Hill endorse much of the Obama education agenda, they say Duncan has overstepped his authority.

“We shouldn’t allow one person to decide the priorities in education and what the policies in education are,” Kline said. “That’s way, way too much power in one person.”

Results uncertain

Unanswered is whether the Obama policies will boost achievement and graduation rates or better prepare students for colleges and careers.

None of the top-performing countries against which the United States is frequently compared — in an unflattering light — use any of the techniques advocated by Obama. Finland, which leads the world in student achievement, has no merit pay or standardized tests except for a national exam that all students take at age 16. Instead, Finnish teachers write the tests to measure their students’ progress.

A recent study by the Brookings Institution found that common standards won’t necessarily improve student performance. And the idea that merit pay leads to better teaching is not backed up by research.

“When you look at the press releases and public speeches of federal officials, they are quick to claim, ‘Look at how successful we are because we’ve got a lot of policy changes,’ ” said Paul Manna, an associate professor at the College of William and Mary who has written about Race to the Top. “But we won’t know if it’s successful until we see if children are learning more.”

Dallas Chief
09-24-2012, 03:42 PM
Raiduhs

blaise
09-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Obama, the quiet hero.

HonestChieffan
09-24-2012, 05:23 PM
The last paragraph is a good summation. Oh look, we spent tons of money and have no idea of success and no way to measure it. Yippeeeeee

J Diddy
09-24-2012, 05:43 PM
The last paragraph is a good summation. Oh look, we spent tons of money and have no idea of success and no way to measure it. Yippeeeeee

That, um, actually wasn't, um, said. It, um, actually said they, um, won't know if it, um, worked until they can find out if children are learning more.

Standardized tests scores take care of that.

HonestChieffan
09-24-2012, 05:51 PM
So, they spent all this money with no real goals, interim measurements or any thing other than a wish and a prayer. Bottom line, education funding increases have never really done what was expected nor delivered on the promises made. And the answer is spend more money.

J Diddy
09-24-2012, 05:56 PM
So, they spent all this money with no real goals, interim measurements or any thing other than a wish and a prayer. Bottom line, education funding increases have never really done what was expected nor delivered on the promises made. And the answer is spend more money.

Let's simplify this for you. Improve scores is the goal. How do you measure? With standardized tests that they will continue to take.

Point being No child left behind wasn't working. Something new.

Mile High Mania
09-24-2012, 07:54 PM
"He has allowed tens of states to get out from under No Child Left Behind, while instituting Race To The Top in the stimulus package, which has allowed over half the country's states to institutde widely praised upgrades in infrastructure, technology, and test-based measurements of teachers."

Anyone else catching something odd here... considering the topic?

chiefzilla1501
09-24-2012, 08:01 PM
I'm all for education reform and spending.

But how that reform is created should be left for states to decide.

petegz28
09-24-2012, 08:14 PM
You want to make education better? Go back to the days when a teacher could knock the shit out of a kid for being a dumbass.

When I was growing up there was a certain heirarchy on my house:

1. Parents
2. Police
3. God
4. Teacher

In that order

If God told my parents I was good and the teacher said I was being bad the teacher won!

La literatura
09-24-2012, 11:34 PM
You want to make education better? Go back to the days when a teacher could knock the shit out of a kid for being a dumbass.

When I was growing up there was a certain heirarchy on my house:

1. Parents
2. Police
3. God
4. Teacher

In that order

If God told my parents I was good and the teacher said I was being bad the teacher won!

Were your parents too stupid to understand their own damn hierarchy?

Comrade Crapski
09-24-2012, 11:36 PM
Obama, the quiet hero.

ROFL

http://black2com.blogspot.com/2011/04/yeah-i-know.html

Direckshun
09-24-2012, 11:57 PM
Were your parents too stupid to understand their own damn hierarchy?

ROFL

Rausch
09-25-2012, 05:12 AM
Obama isn't going to bother with the teachers' union.

Few Presidents would.

bsp4444
09-25-2012, 09:30 AM
So, they spent all this money with no real goals, interim measurements or any thing other than a wish and a prayer. Bottom line, education funding increases have never really done what was expected nor delivered on the promises made. And the answer is spend more money.

They spent the money because the current system doesn't work. I don't know iof anyone other than tenured teachers who claim it does.

NewChief
09-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Raiduhs

This. Seriously. Obama is making things worse in education, and that's a major reason he's lost my vote.

NewChief
09-25-2012, 09:35 AM
Under the "waiver" for NCLB, my high school (which is one of the highest performing in the state) is now on alert status, but all of the shitty, poor failing schools in the Delta are off alert. Makes a lot of sense.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 09:41 AM
Under the "waiver" for NCLB, my high school (which is one of the highest performing in the state) is now on alert status, but all of the shitty, poor failing schools in the Delta are off alert. Makes a lot of sense.

Why are they on alert?

NewChief
09-25-2012, 10:10 AM
Why are they on alert?

TAG groups. Because we have certain subpopulations that are performing lower than our highest students. Under their formula, we need to have our AP students start performing more poorly, and we'd go off improvement.

And I get achievement gaps. That's fine and needs to be addressed. But when we (and a like 7 or 8 others high performing schools) have suddenly gone on alert while most schools that are, systematically (mainly due to lack of funding as well as community poverty), failing miserably are now absolved of improvement... it's a little galling.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 10:16 AM
TAG groups. Because we have certain subpopulations that are performing lower than our highest students. Under their formula, we need to have our AP students start performing more poorly, and we'd go off improvement.

And I get achievement gaps. That's fine and needs to be addressed. But when we (and a like 7 or 8 others high performing schools) have suddenly gone on alert while most schools that are, systematically (mainly due to lack of funding as well as community poverty), failing miserably are now absolved of improvement... it's a little galling.

So basically the problem is that the smart students are doing great and a portion of the other students are doing real poor?

NewChief
09-25-2012, 10:26 AM
So basically the problem is that the smart students are doing great and a portion of the other students are doing real poor?

By "real poor" they're still above the average in struggling schools. So they're doing above average for their demographic, but there is too much of a gap between them and the smart students in our school.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 10:31 AM
By "real poor" they're still above the average in struggling schools. So they're doing above average for their demographic, but there is too much of a gap between them and the smart students in our school.

Ahh, I understand. How did this waiver create such an unbalance?

vailpass
09-25-2012, 10:31 AM
Obama, the quiet hero.

LMAO For me to poop on!

NewChief
09-25-2012, 10:33 AM
Ahh, I understand. How did this waiver create such an unbalance?

It focused purely on internal achievement gaps instead of overall performance with relation to the entire state. We've brought it to the state department of Ed., but they're idiots. Seriously.


So us, and a bunch of other high performing schools, will have state monitors in our school this year checking paperwork and other useless bullshit while the truly low performing schools get some breathing room.

vailpass
09-25-2012, 10:35 AM
It focused purely on internal achievement gaps instead of overall performance with relation to the entire state. We've brought it to the state department of Ed., but they're idiots. Seriously.


So us, and a bunch of other high performing schools, will have state monitors in our school this year checking paperwork and other useless bullshit while the truly low performing schools get some breathing room.

But let's not listen to people like NewChief. He's just a competent, dedicated career educator whose first priority is in providing the best possible education for his students.

NewChief
09-25-2012, 10:35 AM
This is crossposted from the thread where I broke with Obama, but I'll throw it out here as well:

A friend and colleague for mine does a pretty good job of summing up many of my feelings in his letter to Obama (though I don't agree with him on everything). I'll paste some of the gems:

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/09/17/election-2012-does-either-presidential-candidate-offer-hope-on-education/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog
Quote:
By Chris Goering



The truth about what you and your secretary have done to education, unless you reverse course immediately, most assuredly has cost you the votes of many teachers in this country, a demographic that should be strong in their support of you. This isn’t to say I like your opponent or think his education plan is any better—the fact your secretary’s name is being considered for retention if Romney were to win the election in November puts voters like me who care about public education in a no-win situation. Mr. Obama, while I hate to invoke words of yet another Hollywood star given the recent talking chair episode, about education, “you can’t handle the truth.” The education record that you’ve been touting around the country in recent weeks is nothing more than empty political rhetoric. Your education record is awful, perhaps the worst in the history of our country. And that’s saying something.

You’ve said recently that Race to the Top is a great success. Truthfully, Race to the Top takes the worst aspects of the Bush administration’s education policies and gives them teeth and financial backing. In my now 13th year in education, I’ve witnessed those same policies destroy teaching and learning in the schools, turning children and teachers into automatons for standardized testing. As a teacher and teacher educator I often felt like I was sitting on a deck chair of the Titanic. While the Bush Administration steered us directly towards the iceberg of NCLB, Arne has managed to hit five more icebergs while claiming that the boat is at fault.

Let’s talk for a second about the neo-liberal agenda your leadership has encouraged. Privatizing education is the equivalent of the Bush era Wall Street policy, heavy with idea candy like free trade, open markets, and deregulation ended in disaster in 2008. A neoliberal education agenda, one in love with oversimplified metrics of progress like test scores, promises a bleak future. Mr. President, how could you? You’ve argued for four years that Wall Street needed more oversight to prevent the bailout situation you admirably faced in your first year as president. Your move in health care mirrored your perspective on Wall Street (I support both initiatives wholeheartedly, by the way). But who will save our schools once they crash like Wall Street? We are heading for an educational meltdown of Wall Street proportions, and I think you and your education secretary/agenda will and should be blamed for part of it, an offense that will land you and Arne in the same conversations that the country has had about Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney and their role in torturing prisoners. Who will protect our children from the educational equivalents of Bain Capital, vultures hungry to buy schools and then shut them down for financial gain?

Current policy looks like educational waterboarding in the classrooms I visit. Strapping teachers and children to unrealistic standards and goals and repeatedly beating them upside the head with standardized tests that experts believe tell us next to nothing about what a child can actually do, is sustained torture with awful consequences for all of us, for our country’s future. When creativity is seined out of a curriculum by focusing on narrow standards (i.e., No Child Left Behind) who — teachers, students, administrators — wants to do that? I’m afraid this approach is designed to create less informed populace, one that is easier to control.

vailpass
09-25-2012, 10:37 AM
That, um, actually wasn't, um, said. It, um, actually said they, um, won't know if it, um, worked until they can find out if children are learning more.

Standardized tests scores take care of that.

Gearing everything toward standardized test results is a guaranteed recipe for failure in a school.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 10:51 AM
But let's not listen to people like NewChief. He's just a competent, dedicated career educator whose first priority is in providing the best possible education for his students.

I didn't know he was a career educator and I am, but one doesn't make the lot.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 10:54 AM
Gearing everything toward standardized test results is a guaranteed recipe for failure in a school.
Isn't that what NewChief is saying that he wants below
It focused purely on internal achievement gaps instead of overall performance with relation to the entire state. We've brought it to the state department of Ed., but they're idiots. Seriously.


So us, and a bunch of other high performing schools, will have state monitors in our school this year checking paperwork and other useless bullshit while the truly low performing schools get some breathing room.

But let's not listen to people like NewChief. He's just a competent, dedicated career educator whose first priority is in providing the best possible education for his students.

?

NewChief
09-25-2012, 10:57 AM
Isn't that what NewChief is saying that he wants below




?

Hell no I don't want that. I'm just saying why these particular waivers are idiotic. I'm against the emphasis on standardized testing period. These tests suck, and they're sucking the lives and creativity from our schools and children.

The entire standardized testing and educational "reform" movement is a money grab. Diagnose the disease through a test, sell the school districts or states the "cure" in some crappy professional development program or consultancy fees, then move the bars for what constitutes "healthy," so you can sell them a new cure. Pigs at the freaking trough.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 10:58 AM
Hell no I don't want that. I'm just saying why these particular waivers are idiotic. I'm against the emphasis on standardized testing period. These tests suck, and they're sucking the lives and creativity from our schools and children.

The entire standardized testing and educational "reform" movement is a money grab. Diagnose the disease through a test, sell the school districts or states the "cure" in some crappy professional development program or consultancy fees, then move the bars for what constitutes "healthy," so you can sell them a new cure. Pigs at the freaking trough.

What needs to happen then?

NewChief
09-25-2012, 11:03 AM
What needs to happen then?

Read Yong Zhao's "Catching Up or Leading the Way" for probably one of the most compelling accounts of the missteps we're making with regards to public education. But I'm to the point where I honestly think that the Federal DoE does far more harm than good.

Iowanian
09-25-2012, 11:16 AM
Obama doesn't understand how to fix American education issues because he spent so little time actually attending American schools.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Obama doesn't understand how to fix American education issues because he spent so little time actually attending American schools.

From 5th grade until graduation from Harvard is a little time?

Iowanian
09-25-2012, 01:12 PM
Obama this week admitted to failing tests and being a substandard student.


How did he get into Harvard?


Yes, I'll submit that missing PreK-5th grade is significant to one's view on American education.

bsp4444
09-25-2012, 01:19 PM
Obama this week admitted to failing tests and being a substandard student.


How did he get into Harvard?


Yes, I'll submit that missing PreK-5th grade is significant to one's view on American education.

Oh, I learned so much about the school system from my days as a preshooler and kindeergartner and, well, even up to 5th grade. But when I hit sixth grade, it all goes sort of blank.

Seriously, dude, just keep on hating, will you? Will you just please keep hating any effort to fix a broken system?

Your statements are obtuse.

Iowanian
09-25-2012, 01:21 PM
I'm all for fixing a broken education system.

Lets' begin by stopping the pandering to special interest groups and treat every student equally and hold them to the SAME standards.



Riddle me this, At what age range do humans absorb and learn the most information?
Other than learning the alphabet, numbers, reading, writing, fundamental mathematics and problem solving, and social relationships, you sure don't learn much before 6th grade.



Ivy league schools are very difficult to get into. How did an admittedly substandard, slacker student like Obama get admission?

vailpass
09-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Isn't that what NewChief is saying that he wants below




?
:spock:

vailpass
09-25-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm all for fixing a broken education system.

Lets' begin by stopping the pandering to special interest groups and treat every student equally and hold them to the SAME standards.



Riddle me this, At what age range do humans absorb and learn the most information?
Other than learning the alphabet, numbers, reading, writing, fundamental mathematics and problem solving, and social relationships, you sure don't learn much before 6th grade.



Ivy league schools are very difficult to get into. How did an admittedly substandard, slacker student like Obama get admission?

Give me an A...Give me an F....

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 02:35 PM
:spock:

In his example that he used he was referring to a state wide standardized test, I bolded it.

blaise
09-25-2012, 02:39 PM
We need to delve deeper into NewChief's concerns until we can convince him this is Bush's fault.

vailpass
09-25-2012, 02:42 PM
In his example that he used he was referring to a state wide standardized test, I bolded it.

I saw, I'm just not sure you and I took the same contextual cues from NC's posts and also from the post he shared from his colleague's open letter to obama.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 02:54 PM
I saw, I'm just not sure you and I took the same contextual cues from NC's posts and also from the post he shared from his colleague's open letter to obama.

I did. I just found it odd that the thing he disliked he used in an example to prove his case.

vailpass
09-25-2012, 03:02 PM
I did. I just found it odd that the thing he disliked he used in an example to prove his case.

Got ya', thanks.

Dallas Chief
09-25-2012, 04:27 PM
Oh, I learned so much about the school system from my days as a preshooler and kindeergartner and, well, even up to 5th grade. But when I hit sixth grade, it all goes sort of blank.

Seriously, dude, just keep on hating, will you? Will you just please keep hating any effort to fix a broken system?

Your statements are obtuse.

Seriously dude, your ass is obtuse so shut the fock off. That's were you learn all the right from wrong shit and start develop close friendships for the first time in your life. Right before tits and ass come along and wreck just about everything you thought or believed in, including but not limited to Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and your mom the Tooth Fairy.

J Diddy
09-25-2012, 06:36 PM
Obama this week admitted to failing tests and being a substandard student.


How did he get into Harvard?


Yes, I'll submit that missing PreK-5th grade is significant to one's view on American education.

Minority applicant perhaps? Perhaps they felt he had the potential to do something special, like become president. I don't know, his grades are sealed.

Iowanian
09-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Minority applicant perhaps? Perhaps they felt he had the potential to do something special, like become president. I don't know, his grades are sealed.


It's a grand scheme of skulls-Bonez n harmony.


So what you're saying is regarding his education "Obama, he didn't build that"

petegz28
09-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Were your parents too stupid to understand their own damn hierarchy?

You can come out of the closet..we will still love you

KS Smitty
09-25-2012, 10:10 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread to post this in but Good Morning America reported that reading levels on standardized tests hit their lowest marks in 40 years. 40 freaking years!!! No child was left behind, they all are.

SNR
09-25-2012, 10:13 PM
You can come out of the closet..we will still love you

OH MAN SO SMOOV

bsp4444
09-26-2012, 06:47 AM
Seriously dude, your ass is obtuse so shut the fock off. That's were you learn all the right from wrong shit and start develop close friendships for the first time in your life. Right before tits and ass come along and wreck just about everything you thought or believed in, including but not limited to Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and your mom the Tooth Fairy.

Oh, I thought we were trying to discern where Obama might have learned something about the education system...not learned in general. If you're saying he can't make executive decisions about school because he didn't learn to color within the lines in an American school, well then I can't really help you. And please try not to focus on my ass.

Iowanian
09-26-2012, 09:37 AM
Let's put it this way.

If whatever system Obama learned under is responsible for his dumb ass, I think it would behoove our nation to go in the opposite direction.

vailpass
09-26-2012, 12:33 PM
Let's put it this way.

If whatever system Obama learned under is responsible for his dumb ass, I think it would behoove our nation to go in the opposite direction.

I'm in the affirmative regarding that action.

El Jefe
09-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Let's put it this way.

If whatever system Obama learned under is responsible for his dumb ass, I think it would behoove our nation to go in the opposite direction.

^^ In Jesus name I pray, Amen!!