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BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Obama Job creator?
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/120927022833-chart-obama-jobs-even-story-top.jpg
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-monthly-payrolls-090712.gif
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-unemployment-rate-090712.gif

Manufacturing
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-gdp-090712_monster.gif



Obama the big spender?
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-gov-spending-4.gif

Home Prices
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-median-home-0815.gif

Stock market
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-sp500-090712.gif

Detoxing
09-27-2012, 05:44 PM
That's great and all.....but do you have proof of a valid birth certificate?

Until you do, i don't care what you have to say.

stonedstooge
09-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Cool, more fake graphs

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 05:48 PM
Well done.

No chart on the deficit...check. No chart on the size of the workforce...check....No chart on fuel and food costs...check....No chart on promises made/Promises kept...check.

Suckers

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 05:50 PM
Cool, more fake graphswhatever unless you hear it on Drudge, its not true.

Detoxing
09-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Well done.

No chart on the deficit...check. No chart on the size of the workforce...check....No chart on fuel and food costs...check....No chart on promises made/Promises kept...check.

Suckers

LMAO

What would a Promise Made/Promise Kept chart look like?

Would it include how many Obama phones were given out between 08'-12'?

dirk digler
09-27-2012, 05:53 PM
As of today Obama has created net jobs since the BLS has revised their data from the last year and found 368,000 more jobs

dirk digler
09-27-2012, 05:55 PM
Well done.

No chart on the deficit...check. No chart on the size of the workforce...check....No chart on fuel and food costs...check....No chart on promises made/Promises kept...check.

Suckers

The Obameter Scorecard



Promise Kept (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/) 192 (38%)



Compromise (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/compromise/) 75 (15%)



Promise Broken (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/) 85 (17%)



Stalled (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/stalled/) 46 (9%)



In the Works (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/in-the-works/) 108 (21%)

Not yet rated (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/not-yet-rated/) 2 (0%)

Detoxing
09-27-2012, 05:55 PM
As of today Obama has created net jobs since the BLS has revised their data from the last year and found 368,000 more jobs

You got a birth certificate to back up that claim?

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 05:57 PM
Well done.

No chart on the deficit...check. No chart on the size of the workforce...check....No chart on fuel and food costs...check....No chart on promises made/Promises kept...check.

SuckersHCF I know you are a smart man and you certaintly have excellent taste in sports teams. :thumb:

It's not all roses and unicorns flying out of our ass's. But, they are facts. Bureau of labor statistics, Realtor assocations, Congressional Budget office etc.

If we are suckers so are you if you just ignore the good things that have happened. It might not have been your approach and verhmently oppose his policies but the facts are the facts. He has not lead us to destruction. America has survived, just like we did the Bush era.

Detoxing
09-27-2012, 05:58 PM
America has survived, just like we did the Bush era.

You got a birth certificate to back up that claim?

dirk digler
09-27-2012, 05:58 PM
You got a birth certificate to back up that claim?

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/625414/thumbs/o-MITT-ROMNEY-BIRTH-CERTIFICATE-570.jpg?1

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 06:03 PM
You got a birth certificate to back up that claim?uhhh both of my parents families has been in the USA since the early 1700's. As a kid I looked like I stepped out of a Norman Rockwell painting and then my accent....GEEEZ I dont think I need to produce a birth certificate.

I look the part. Thats all that matters just ask Scott Brown.

Mr. Plow
09-27-2012, 06:06 PM
As of today Obama has created net jobs since the BLS has revised their data from the last year and found 368,000 more jobs


Is this like Kentucky "finding" more wins from the 1930's so that they could reach 2,000 wins first? :D


I'm kidding.

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 06:11 PM
HCF I know you are a smart man and you certaintly have excellent taste in sports teams. :thumb:

It's not all roses and unicorns flying out of our ass's. But, they are facts. Bureau of labor statistics, Realtor assocations, Congressional Budget office etc.

If we are suckers so are you if you just ignore the good things that have happened. It might not have been your approach and verhmently oppose his policies but the facts are the facts. He has not lead us to destruction. America has survived, just like we did the Bush era.

Bush and Obama have done a near equal job? That is progress from the left i do declare.

VAChief
09-27-2012, 06:11 PM
LMAO

What would a Promise Made/Promise Kept chart look like?

Would it include how many Obama phones were given out between 08'-12'?

Would you settle for a giant banner proclaiming..."Mission Accomplished!"

qabbaan
09-27-2012, 06:12 PM
Hay guys here is something I found on democrat underground! Game changar!

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 06:14 PM
As of today Obama has created net jobs since the BLS has revised their data from the last year and found 368,000 more jobs

And by November we will find a bazillion more, retail sales will be up, and our world will all be roses and goodness! Christ you people will fall for anything.

dirk digler
09-27-2012, 06:23 PM
And by November we will find a bazillion more, retail sales will be up, and our world will all be roses and goodness! Christ you people will fall for anything.

I know it is all a conspiracy yet it happens every year

At 8:30 a.m. on the first Friday of each month, political and financial analysts across the country begin hitting refresh on their browsers maniacally. That’s when the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases its monthly jobs numbers — one of the most closely-watched indicators of the state of the U.S. economy.

Yet it turns out that the monthly numbers are almost always wrong. In fact, over the past twelve months, they’ve been wildly wrong. On Thursday, BLS released newly revised data (http://www.bls.gov/ces/cesprelbmk.htm) showing that the U.S. economy has actually added 386,000 more jobs in the past year than the monthly reports suggested. In other words, the average monthly BLS report over the last year has understated job growth by about 32,000 jobs.

To put it another way, the U.S. economy has been adding 194,000 jobs per month over the past year, rather than 162,000 jobs per month. That means that the country is on pace to get back to full employment by 2021 rather than after 2025, according to the Hamilton Project’s calculator (http://www.hamiltonproject.org/jobs_gap/). (Although it’s still a slow recovery by either measure.) It also means that the United States has now seen a net gain in jobs since President Obama took office in 2009.

Economist Justin Wolfers wonders why these revisions aren’t generating nearly as much fanfare. “Amazing how much attention a 30k miss on a monthly jobs number gets,” he writes (https://twitter.com/justinwolfers/status/251343420277280768) on Twitter, “and how little follows when 386k more jobs are found in a re-benchmark.” Wolfers adds that this revision may help explain why the unemployment rate keeps nudging downward despite the apparently weak jobs growth.

According to the new BLS revisions, the United States actually shed about 67,000 government jobs at the federal, state, and local level over the past year. Private-sector jobs, by contrast, grew by 453,000 more than expected.

What explains the change? Once a year, the BLS creates a “benchmark” for its jobs numbers by poring over administrative data from companies across the country. This helps the agency generate more accurate numbers, but it also takes about 10 months to do, which is why the government has to provide rough estimates on a monthly basis. The agency will publish its final benchmark revisions Feb. 1, 2013.

But the sweeping revision suggests we could probably stand to put a little less emphasis on those monthly jobs reports.

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 06:29 PM
Americans must be wondering how much more of this “recovery” they can afford. New figures from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, compiled by Sentier Research, show that the typical American household’s real (inflation-adjusted) income has actually dropped 5.7 percent during the Obama “recovery.” Using constant 2012 dollars (to adjust for inflation), the median annual income of American households was $53,718 as of June 2009, the last month of the recession. Now, after 38 months of this “recovery,” it has fallen to $50,678 — a drop of $3,040 per household.

Yet it gets worse. Amazingly, incomes have dropped even more during the “recovery” than they did during the recession. In fact, they’ve dropped more than twice as much as they did during the recession. From the start to the end of the recession, the real median income of American households fell $1,413, or 2.6 percent. From the end of the recession to the present day, it has dropped $3,040, or 5.7 percent. This begs the question: What kind of “recovery” compares unfavorably with the recession from which it’s ostensibly recovering?

Keep Reading....http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/americans-incomes-have-fallen-3040-during-obama-recovery_653116.html

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 06:32 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UXm3VHAhwJ0/UGQoPnB7loI/AAAAAAABgo4/8Fiki9Xp11Y/s400/theo3.cms

dirk digler
09-27-2012, 06:41 PM
http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=XZgkzbXOjqjpq2rfQyn4Rs$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYt1LPsmXgts$NT aLSV0Ko1TWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

cosmo20002
09-27-2012, 07:05 PM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/625414/thumbs/o-MITT-ROMNEY-BIRTH-CERTIFICATE-570.jpg?1

Birth Certificate--not a Certificate of Live Birth, whatever that is.

ReynardMuldrake
09-27-2012, 07:05 PM
Well done.

No chart on the deficit...check. No chart on the size of the workforce...check....No chart on fuel and food costs...check....No chart on promises made/Promises kept...check.

Suckers

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/06/Federal_Spending_Bush_Vs_Obama.png
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/gas-prices-inflation-adjusted.jpg
http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/02/27/how-high-have-gas-prices-risen-over-the-years/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/foodgraph.jpg?uuid=DIRbfsjlEeCBn7Qf3SCQ3w
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/chart-of-the-day-food-price-spikes-are-still-with-us/2011/08/17/gIQACA9OLJ_blog.html

The Obameter Scorecard
Promise Kept 192 (38%)
Compromise 75 (15%)
Promise Broken 85 (17%)
Stalled 46 (9%)
In the Works 108 (21%)
Not yet rated 2 (0%)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

These things can be found if you google them.

petegz28
09-27-2012, 07:28 PM
Guess you forgot this one..

http://rsc.jordan.house.gov/UploadedPhotos/HighResolution/f7ab96e9-46cc-4d95-922b-2d3b79086301.jpg

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 07:36 PM
Guess you forgot this one..

maybe because its a republican party pathetic abuse of numbers. ones in the chart and those left out.

Mine were chart facts created by bi-partisan no horse in the race groups. Yours was just a joke but now that I know you get all your news from Drudge, thats to be expected.

Calcountry
09-27-2012, 07:40 PM
whatever unless you hear it on Drudge, its not true.Whatever, take the graph back to the beginning of the Pelosi/Reid/Bush Regime?

Congressman Barnies frank, forced banks to loan money to have nots. Then they walked away from loans they couldn't afford, Bernank printed trillions, the rest is history.

Rock Obama borrows and spends as much as he can, the fed prints the money and hands it to him.

How is that bacon price? How is the price of corn? Gasoline?

How is the unemployment rate working?

He don't give a damn about poor people, just implementing marxist change.


Rule 1: Debauch the currency.

Rule 2: Detach the citizenry from the past.

Go ahead, America is his bitch. Go ahead and vote for him.

petegz28
09-27-2012, 07:41 PM
maybe because its a republican party pathetic abuse of numbers. ones in the chart and those left out.

Mine were chart facts created by bi-partisan no horse in the race groups. Yours was just a joke but now that I know you get all your news from Drudge, thats to be expected.

WTF? JFC are you really that stupid? And that didn't come from Drudge, toolbar.

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 07:46 PM
WTF? JFC are you really that stupid? And that didn't come from Drudge, toolbar.I can fucking read, its clear who the source is, the Republican study committe of the house of representatives. One of the most partisan groups on the face of the earth.

yeah right hurl insults, I'm stupid for being able to read. :doh!:

cosmo20002
09-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Whatever, take the graph back to the beginning of the Pelosi/Reid/Bush Regime?

Congressman Barnies frank, forced banks to loan money to have nots. Then they walked away from loans they couldn't afford, Bernank printed trillions, the rest is history.



Pelosi/Reid/Bush regime--hilarious.

Barney Frank forced banks to loan money. :facepalm:

petegz28
09-27-2012, 07:53 PM
maybe because its a republican party pathetic abuse of numbers. ones in the chart and those left out.

Mine were chart facts created by bi-partisan no horse in the race groups. Yours was just a joke but now that I know you get all your news from Drudge, thats to be expected.

http://i.imgur.com/ACSlI.jpg

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 07:56 PM
http://www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2012/01/FoodStampCosts02.jpg

BigRedChief
09-27-2012, 07:59 PM
http://www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2012/01/FoodStampCosts02.jpggeeeezz your embrassing yourselfs. Only thing you guys can find is charts made by professional staffs of Republicans?

petegz28
09-27-2012, 08:01 PM
geeeezz your embrassing yourselfs. Only thing you guys can find is charts made by professional staffs of Republicans?

You're right, the increase in gas and food prices and the shrinking labor pool are all made up by the Repubs.

You might want to the the cashiers that when they take my money for food and gas.

petegz28
09-27-2012, 08:02 PM
BRC fails at basic math.

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 08:04 PM
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/images/pubs-images/43xxx/SNAP_Infographic_4_18_2012.png

HonestChieffan
09-27-2012, 08:04 PM
Damn CBO

Mr. Plow
09-28-2012, 08:07 AM
geeeezz your embrassing yourselfs. Only thing you guys can find is charts made by professional staffs of Republicans?


I get what you are saying, but is the data incorrect?

blaise
09-28-2012, 09:55 AM
geeeezz your embrassing yourselfs. Only thing you guys can find is charts made by professional staffs of Republicans?

Come on.

Amnorix
09-28-2012, 09:59 AM
Americans must be wondering how much more of this “recovery” they can afford. New figures from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, compiled by Sentier Research, show that the typical American household’s real (inflation-adjusted) income has actually dropped 5.7 percent during the Obama “recovery.” Using constant 2012 dollars (to adjust for inflation), the median annual income of American households was $53,718 as of June 2009, the last month of the recession. Now, after 38 months of this “recovery,” it has fallen to $50,678 — a drop of $3,040 per household.

Yet it gets worse. Amazingly, incomes have dropped even more during the “recovery” than they did during the recession. In fact, they’ve dropped more than twice as much as they did during the recession. From the start to the end of the recession, the real median income of American households fell $1,413, or 2.6 percent. From the end of the recession to the present day, it has dropped $3,040, or 5.7 percent. This begs the question: What kind of “recovery” compares unfavorably with the recession from which it’s ostensibly recovering?

Keep Reading....http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/americans-incomes-have-fallen-3040-during-obama-recovery_653116.html


This issue is real, but it's not anything that a President is likely to impact.

Corporations are increasingly focused on fattening the wallets of the senior executives, and less on both stockholders and, especially, employees. Wages are flat or pathetic, despite booming profits and swelling corporate coffers.

I have no idea what the fix is for that, but even if there is one, I doubt Romney would pursue it.

Look! Squiggly lines!!

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/11/23/saupload_corporate_profits_vs_gdp.jpg

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4c506c9f7f8b9af1619a0100/chart-of-the-day-corporate-profits-vs-jobs-2007-2010.jpg

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-07-28/wall_street/30001415_1_profits-q2-employment.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/data/images/Charts/Corporate_cash_holdings.jpg

Amnorix
09-28-2012, 10:03 AM
Whatever, take the graph back to the beginning of the Pelosi/Reid/Bush Regime?

Congressman Barnies frank, forced banks to loan money to have nots. Then they walked away from loans they couldn't afford, Bernank printed trillions, the rest is history.



Nothing like taking a bunch of complicated factors and boiling it down to one grossly oversimplified exaggeration.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-I-zTORhOgyA/TcczZ5hi4yI/AAAAAAAAAQE/9yR3lzhdvmI/s1600/Oversimplify.gif

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:08 AM
I can ****ing read, its clear who the source is, the Republican study committe of the house of representatives. One of the most partisan groups on the face of the earth.

yeah right hurl insults, I'm stupid for being able to read. :doh!:

This thread is coming from a partisan source so we should just discount the OP, right?

If facts are facts, then facts are still facts when they come from a partisan source.

cosmo20002
09-28-2012, 11:14 AM
You're right, the increase in gas and food prices and the shrinking labor pool are all made up by the Repubs.


Good golly! Gas and food cost more than 4 years ago? This is probably the first time in history prices have risen in a 4-year period. My grandpa told me how he used to be able to go to the movies for a nickel and have enough left over for a sodey-pop. Now a movie is $10. Grrrr! Obama!

BucEyedPea
09-28-2012, 11:14 AM
The Obameter Scorecard



Promise Kept (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/) 192 (38%)



Compromise (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/compromise/) 75 (15%)



Promise Broken (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/) 85 (17%)



Stalled (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/stalled/) 46 (9%)



In the Works (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/in-the-works/) 108 (21%)

Not yet rated (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/not-yet-rated/) 2 (0%)


Heh! Wish I could find it but a more independent source has Obama's promises he kept to be much less than those numbers.

Donger
09-28-2012, 11:17 AM
Nothing like taking a bunch of complicated factors and boiling it down to one grossly oversimplified exaggeration.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-I-zTORhOgyA/TcczZ5hi4yI/AAAAAAAAAQE/9yR3lzhdvmI/s1600/Oversimplify.gif

x = 6?

cosmo20002
09-28-2012, 11:27 AM
x = 6?

:facepalm:
5

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 11:30 AM
This thread is coming from a partisan source so we should just discount the OP, right?

If facts are facts, then facts are still facts when they come from a partisan source.

Sometimes.

There's a difference, however, in talking to a person who's presenting their point of view, and someone who is presenting the collected point of view of a shit ton of partisan sources.

You should not rely on politicians for facts. Rely on experts.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:34 AM
Sometimes.

There's a difference, however, in talking to a person who's presenting their point of view, and someone who is presenting the collected point of view of a shit ton of partisan sources.

You should not rely on politicians for facts. Rely on experts.

Are the facts pete posted wrong? If not, and I bet they aren't, then what's your point?

blaise
09-28-2012, 11:35 AM
Good golly! Gas and food cost more than 4 years ago? This is probably the first time in history prices have risen in a 4-year period. My grandpa told me how he used to be able to go to the movies for a nickel and have enough left over for a sodey-pop. Now a movie is $10. Grrrr! Obama!

Of course price increases don't matter. Obama is President!

- cosmo

cosmo20002
09-28-2012, 11:39 AM
Of course price increases don't matter. Obama is President!

- cosmo

Seems like you are pretty much ignoring common sense. Prices on most things tend to go up over time.

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 11:42 AM
Are the facts pete posted wrong? If not, and I bet they aren't, then what's your point?

They could be wrong.

If they come from a partisan source, they could be blatantly misrepresented or distorted. That's far more common an occurrence from partisan sources.

As a result, I now have to do independent research to verify it, which most people won't do.

If you want to come across as honest, and present facts as honestly as you can, avoid partisan sources.

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Besides, pat, how often did you used to criticize me for sources you thought were biased?

I know you're swimming in the art of shilling these days, but you gotta pick your battles better.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:46 AM
Here are some more Obama facts:

Muslims are rioting in the streets all across the Islamic world expressing their hatred of the US.

We just experienced the first assassination of a US Ambassador since the Jimmy Carter era.

Obama snubbed the Israeli Prime Minister and explained that his schedule was too full. Meanwhile, he has made appearances on the Letterman show, the View, and at mulitple fundraisers and campaigning stops including one hosted by Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Obama's UN Ambassador, after lying to the country in five separate national TV appearances in the immediate aftermath of the aforementioned Ambassador assassination, attended the UN speech of Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but chose not to attend that of Benjamin Netanyahu.

And now an opinion: Obama's foreign policy is a disaster that's only getting worse.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:50 AM
Besides, pat, how often did you used to criticize me for sources you thought were biased?

I know you're swimming in the art of shilling these days, but you gotta pick your battles better.

I'm responding to someone (BRC) who says that facts are facts and who doesn't seem to recognize that facts can be used to mislead.

When I criticize your sources, I'm not criticizing the truth of real facts. I'm criticizing the objectivity of the presentation of those facts, the thoroughness of the analysis based on those facts, or the conclusions being drawn from those facts.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:51 AM
They could be wrong.

If they come from a partisan source, they could be blatantly misrepresented or distorted. That's far more common an occurrence from partisan sources.

As a result, I now have to do independent research to verify it, which most people won't do.

If you want to come across as honest, and present facts as honestly as you can, avoid partisan sources.

I read this post after the one I just responded to. I agree with what you're saying here. I have to wonder why you didn't make these points when BRC created this thread instead of waiting until now. Of course, I understand that it's because you're swimming in the art of shilling these days so I don't really wonder all that much.

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm responding to someone (BRC) who says that facts are facts and who doesn't seem to recognize that facts can be used to mislead.

When I criticize your sources, I'm not criticizing the truth of real facts. I'm criticizing the objectivity of the presentation of those facts, the thoroughness of the analysis based on those facts, or the conclusions being drawn from those facts.

When you're using partisan sources, it's far more common for alleged facts to simply be wrong.

That's why you don't use them.

cosmo20002
09-28-2012, 11:51 AM
Here are some more Obama facts:

Muslims are rioting in the streets all across the Islamic world expressing their hatred of the US.

We just experienced the first assassination of a US Ambassador since the Jimmy Carter era.

Obama snubbed the Israeli Prime Minister and explained that his schedule was too full. Meanwhile, he has made appearances on the Letterman show, the View, and at mulitple fundraisers and campaigning stops including one hosted by Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Obama's UN Ambassador, after lying to the country in five separate national TV appearances in the immediate aftermath of the aforementioned Ambassador assassination, attended the UN speech of Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but chose not to attend that of Benjamin Netanyahu.

And now an opinion: Obama's foreign policy is a disaster that's only getting worse.

Wow. A perfect example of grasping at straws. Your first one is the most ridiculous. Hell, if they weren't expressing US hatred, you would say it is because of Obama's appeasement of them. Of course, you say that also. He's simultaneously appeasing and outraging them.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:55 AM
Wow. A perfect example of grasping at straws. Your first one is the most ridiculous. Hell, if they weren't expressing US hatred, you would say it is because of Obama's appeasement of them. Of course, you say that also. He's simultaneously appeasing and outraging them.

His efforts to appease have been miserable failures as anyone with half a brain could have predicted. If appeasement were a strategy for success, there wouldn't be anything wrong with it.

Mr. Plow
09-28-2012, 11:58 AM
They could be wrong.

If they come from a partisan source, they could be blatantly misrepresented or distorted. That's far more common an occurrence from partisan sources.

As a result, I now have to do independent research to verify it, which most people won't do.

If you want to come across as honest, and present facts as honestly as you can, avoid partisan sources.


So you don't know they are wrong, but you are just assuming they are either wrong or distorted to fit an agenda.

headsnap
09-28-2012, 12:01 PM
So you don't know they are wrong, but you are just assuming they are either wrong or distorted to fit an agenda.

his facts are better than your facts... ;)

blaise
09-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Huff Post stories = good
Drudge stories = bad

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 12:09 PM
So you don't know they are wrong, but you are just assuming they are either wrong or distorted to fit an agenda.

There is little or no doubt that partisan sources are wrong more often than nonpartisan sources, and are less reliable because they are far more likely to be engineered to push an agenda.

Agree, or disagree.

J Diddy
09-28-2012, 12:18 PM
Of course price increases don't matter. Obama is President!

- cosmo

Inflation hasn't been that bad.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 12:19 PM
There is little or no doubt that partisan sources are wrong more often than nonpartisan sources, and are less reliable because they are far more likely to be engineered to push an agenda.

Agree, or disagree.

What's a nonpartisan source? FoxNews and CNN?

vailpass
09-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Inflation hasn't been that bad.

Hang on, it's barreling down the road directly toward us.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Inflation hasn't been that bad.

The inflation that hasn't been that bad (I assume you're talking about the CPI) doesn't include the price increases for food, gas, tuition or health care.

Direckshun
09-28-2012, 12:21 PM
What's a nonpartisan source? FoxNews and CNN?

It's not that easy, neither Fox nor CNN are monolithic.

CNN, for instance, employs Eric Erickson. But it also employs Jeffrey Toobin.

headsnap
09-28-2012, 12:25 PM
Hang on, it's barreling down the road directly toward us.

it'll hit hard once there are no more corners to cut.

qabbaan
09-28-2012, 12:29 PM
You're right, the increase in gas and food prices and the shrinking labor pool are all made up by the Repubs.

You might want to the the cashiers that when they take my money for food and gas.

A common trick to claim there isn't any inflation going on is to include real estate. Everyone knows prices are shooting up and packages are shrinking at the grocery store, and gas is nearly double what it was when his holiness took office, but look! No inflation.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 12:44 PM
It's not that easy, neither Fox nor CNN are monolithic.

CNN, for instance, employs Eric Erickson. But it also employs Jeffrey Toobin.

Let's take BRC's first graph for example. Is it an unbiased fact to show that data set in isolation or should the context of a larger span of time be shown? The time span selected focuses on Obama's term, which makes sense, but if you look at the months preceding Obama's inauguration (for lack of a better chart I'll use one that projects an unlikely future as well)...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/Jobs%20Growth%20Projected.jpg

... we see that Obama's term started fairly deep in an employment trough. If anything, it should be easier to create jobs when so much labor is available than it would have been to create jobs at peak employment. Furthermore, a bigger picture view of this data shows that Obama's "break even or so" leaves us way behind where we were mere months before he took over. Even though you can't blame him for losses that preceded him, his performance is cast in a different light if it looks like he's returned us to an employment maximum than when it looks like he's barely recovered from the losses that did happen on his watch and now, despite tepid job growth numbers, a huge hill still remains ahead to get the country back where it was 5 long years ago.

J Diddy
09-28-2012, 12:47 PM
The inflation that hasn't been that bad (I assume you're talking about the CPI) doesn't include the price increases for food, gas, tuition or health care.

According to the BLS website it not only includes those, but lists those as examples of what it does include. Am I missing something here?

http://www.bls.gov/dolfaq/bls_ques3.htm

vailpass
09-28-2012, 12:51 PM
it'll hit hard once there are no more corners to cut.

Quantitative Easing. I feel for the younger generation, those not yet established.

And for all of us.

Amnorix
09-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Let's take BRC's first graph for example. Is it an unbiased fact to show that data set in isolation or should the context of a larger span of time be shown? The time span selected focuses on Obama's term, which makes sense, but if you look at the months preceding Obama's inauguration (for lack of a better chart I'll use one that projects an unlikely future as well)...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/Jobs%20Growth%20Projected.jpg

... we see that Obama's term started fairly deep in an employment trough. If anything, it should be easier to create jobs when so much labor is available than it would have been to create jobs at peak employment.

You're joking. You're telling us that it should be easier to create jobs when the economy is tanking. That's what you're saying?

That's patently absurd. When the recovery gets into gear, then yes, jobs will be added quickly. Many factors have kept the recovery in check, however, including troubles in Europe not of Obama's (or any other American's) making, continued off-shoring of jobs, anemic demand, continuing softness in the housing market and across the economy due to the truly devastating impact of the collapse of the housing bubble, and (according to some economists anyway), the Republican refusal to pass another stimulus package, leaving the economy limping along.

Changes in corporate culture are also involved here. In addition to uncertainty due to ongoing high unemployment and relatively soft demand, companies are squeezing more and more out of current workers without giving them significant raises, taking advantage of the high unemployment situation. Despite growing profits, they refuse to hire, which is leaving unemployment stubbornly high.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 01:01 PM
According to the BLS website it not only includes those, but lists those as examples of what it does include. Am I missing something here?

http://www.bls.gov/dolfaq/bls_ques3.htm

That's interesting. The BLS apparently compiles different consumer price indices, one that includes all of those things called All Items Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) and one that excludes some of the more volatile items like food and energy along with "thousands of other consumer price indexes".

I was pretty confident that the inflation number reported by the government didn't include those things, but I have to admit that now I'm not sure one way or the other. I'm certainly less confident about the tuition and medical care part, but I'm still somewhat (but not totally) confident about the food and energy part.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm#Question_12

patteeu
09-28-2012, 01:07 PM
You're joking. You're telling us that it should be easier to create jobs when the economy is tanking. That's what you're saying?

That's patently absurd.

I'm saying that it's absolutely easier to create jobs after the economy has tanked than when it's near maximum employment and cruising along at a moderate growth rate. All you have to do is go back and look at job growth rates in previous recoveries and compare those to job growth rates during the later stages of extended growth periods to see that I'm right. Obama's recovery is particularly anemic in this regard.

When the recovery gets into gear, then yes, jobs will be added quickly.

Which is the point. Obama's recovery, like so many other Obama projects from Solyndra to stimulus to Arab outreach, has been a failure.

BigRedChief
09-28-2012, 06:29 PM
This thread is coming from a partisan source so we should just discount the OP, right?So the national association of realtors house sale #'s, the CBO, the bureaua of labor statistics are now all partisan?

BucEyedPea
09-28-2012, 06:33 PM
2% Domestic Growth! Wow!

Drones on weddings, families and children
Indefinite Detention
More Police State
Aid to AlQaeda

BigRedChief
09-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Here are some more Obama facts:

Muslims are rioting in the streets all across the Islamic world expressing their hatred of the US.

We just experienced the first assassination of a US Ambassador since the Jimmy Carter era.

Obama snubbed the Israeli Prime Minister and explained that his schedule was too full. Meanwhile, he has made appearances on the Letterman show, the View, and at mulitple fundraisers and campaigning stops including one hosted by Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Obama's UN Ambassador, after lying to the country in five separate national TV appearances in the immediate aftermath of the aforementioned Ambassador assassination, attended the UN speech of Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but chose not to attend that of Benjamin Netanyahu.

And now an opinion: Obama's foreign policy is a disaster that's only getting worse.These are your opinions, not facts.


They are rioting because they are uneducated easily manipulated to violence over a you tube video because of their ignorance on how a democracy works.
We are at war. There are casualites.
BS. Israel wanted a line in the same, a hard date to attack Iran. That is not in othe USA best interests. The President works for the US, not Israel.
I'm not going to comment on this subject.

We are out of Iraq and Bin Laden is dead. That more than your beloved Bush/Cheney were able to pull off.

patteeu
09-28-2012, 10:22 PM
So the national association of realtors house sale #'s, the CBO, the bureaua of labor statistics are now all partisan?

BigRedChief is partisan.

BucEyedPea
09-28-2012, 10:36 PM
In his last campaign Obama made 508 promises and kept 37 percent of them.

This claim that he brought the Iraq war to a close is bogus. That was just the same status of forces agreement signed under Bush. I'll merely give him credit only for not seeking to break that agreement.

Plus we have 2% GDP growth, which of course counts the growth in govt spending indicating that the private sector economy is even weaker than the 1.3 implies below. To add any real employment at least 2.5 growth is needed.


According to the BEA press release:

The U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) has issued the following news release today:

Real gross domestic product — the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States — increased at an annual rate of 1.3 percent in the second quarter of 2012 (that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to the "third" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 2.0 percent.


Obama, like most Democrats, are clueness on economics.

BigRedChief
09-28-2012, 10:53 PM
BigRedChief is partisan.the graphs were created by non-partisans using facts. No agendas. I had nothing to do with their creation. Partisans had no input in their creation.

The BS posted by HCF and pete were created by paid Republican staffers.

No equivalency.

J Diddy
09-28-2012, 10:56 PM
In his last campaign Obama made 508 promises and kept 37 percent of them.

This claim that he brought the Iraq war to a close is bogus. That was just the same status of forces agreement signed under Bush. I'll merely give him credit only for not seeking to break that agreement.

Plus we have 2% GDP growth, which of course counts the growth in govt spending indicating that the private sector economy is even weaker than the 1.3 implies below. To add any real employment at least 2.5 growth is needed.





Obama, like most Democrats, are clueness on economics.

Where do you get that 2.5 number?

BucEyedPea
09-28-2012, 11:16 PM
From an Austrian Economist.

Also, Marc Faber is saying—*100% Chance of Another Bad Recession

J Diddy
09-28-2012, 11:24 PM
From an Austrian Economist.

Also, Marc Faber is saying—*100% Chance of Another Bad Recession

would you have any sort of link? and I don't know who Marc Faber is

BigRedChief
09-28-2012, 11:24 PM
From an Austrian Economist.

Also, Marc Faber is saying—*100% Chance of Another Bad RecessionAUSTRIAN? A EUROPEAN? scraping the bottom of the google search's to buttress your positions?

VAChief
09-28-2012, 11:40 PM
AUSTRIAN? A EUROPEAN? scraping the bottom of the google search's to buttress your positions?

"Now's the time on Sprockets when we dance!"

BigRedChief
09-28-2012, 11:43 PM
"Now's the time on Sprockets when we dance!"http://www.revenews.com/wp-content/uploads/sprockets1.jpg

patteeu
09-28-2012, 11:55 PM
the graphs were created by non-partisans using facts. No agendas. I had nothing to do with their creation. Partisans had no input in their creation.

The BS posted by HCF and pete were created by paid Republican staffers.

No equivalency.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. Facts presented by ultra-biased blogs are often facts generated by non-partisan groups without agendas too.

BucEyedPea
09-29-2012, 12:19 AM
AUSTRIAN? A EUROPEAN? scraping the bottom of the google search's to buttress your positions?

Wow! What an ignorant statement. That's okay, ignorance can be handled with education.

It's the school of economics I follow. It's also Ron Paul's, Peter Schiff and others aligned with it such as David Stockman, Marc Faber etc. These are the free-market capitalists—not the Mitt Romneys, Bernankes or uber Keynesians of the world. They are the ones who predicted the crisis in 2008 fiver years earlier.

BigRedChief
09-29-2012, 12:42 AM
Wow! What an ignorant statement. That's okay, ignorance can be handled with education.
I thought it was such an obvious sarcasm post that I didn't need to put a smilie in there.

BucEyedPea
09-29-2012, 01:23 AM
I thought it was such an obvious sarcasm post that I didn't need to put a smilie in there.

Oh, my bad! I thought you were dead serious! :doh!:

mlyonsd
09-29-2012, 07:37 AM
What those graphs tell me if they are true is the jobs added back must be minimum wage or something considering the average household income has dropped 4.8% since the recession was over. Yeah, that's something to be proud of. Scream it in the streets.

Another thing I take from them is the economy is slowing down. Awesome. Forward.

Another is Obama hasn't figured out how to run on a budget and his spending is out of control.

Housing and stock market are up, which is nice. Wish I had that 2% of SS funds Bush pushed for in the market. I'd be money ahead.

chiefzilla1501
09-29-2012, 09:25 AM
The economy hit pretty much a valley. Of course the economy was going to pick up, regardless of the President.

I'm less concerned about job growth as I am whether the fundamentals are in place to create long-term job growth. They're not. Bush and Obama are both guilty.

The problem is most of what you post focuses on "revenue" and not "cost." Considering how much we've spent on boosting the economy by printing money and government stimulus, you'd expect better growth than this. That's not ROI. That's like spending $1M on a small business and then celebrating because you created 5 jobs.

chiefzilla1501
09-29-2012, 09:31 AM
This issue is real, but it's not anything that a President is likely to impact.

Corporations are increasingly focused on fattening the wallets of the senior executives, and less on both stockholders and, especially, employees. Wages are flat or pathetic, despite booming profits and swelling corporate coffers.

I have no idea what the fix is for that, but even if there is one, I doubt Romney would pursue it.

Look! Squiggly lines!!


I would agree with this, though let's not pretend this is the major source of the problem. It's just a part of the problem.

And both sides are wrong on this. Republicans have to stop defending executives who are basically fattening their wallets as crony boards of directors let them get away with compensation way beyond what he/she deserves. And yes, some degree of regulation is absolutely necessary to keep this compensation from getting out of control. The liberals, to me, have got to stop with the bullshit nonsense that we should cripple corporations by reducing outsourcing and increasing business regulations (which are both bad policy applied mostly for populist purposes).

Plain and simple, businesses need to invest back into the economy, and too much of those investment dollars are going into executive salaries and too much are going into complying with nonsensical government regulations.

BigRedChief
10-05-2012, 09:13 AM
Obama Job creator?
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/120927022833-chart-obama-jobs-even-story-top.jpg
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-monthly-payrolls-090712.gif
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-unemployment-rate-090712.gif

One month before the election and the unemployment # is back to where it was when we were losing 850K jobs a month. On the edge of a possible depression to the start of a recovery.

You can say it should have been quicker and not last as long but you cant say we are not in recovery. But, if that's your argument, I refer you to Clintons speech.

patteeu
10-05-2012, 10:38 AM
One month before the election and the unemployment # is back to where it was when we were losing 850K jobs a month. On the edge of a possible depression to the start of a recovery.

You can say it should have been quicker and not last as long but you cant say we are not in recovery. But, if that's your argument, I refer you to Clintons speech.

So your argument is that the guy whose economic team told us he could prevent unemployment from going over 8% is now claiming success because after nearly 4 straight years of 8+% unemployment, he's ready to "start" a recovery. What a sad case you're forced to make. :shake:

BTW, don't look now, but the economy is on the brink of a double dip.

BigRedChief
10-05-2012, 10:48 AM
So your argument is that the guy whose economic team told us he could prevent unemployment from going over 8% is now claiming success because after nearly 4 straight years of 8+% unemployment, he's ready to "start" a recovery. What a sad case you're forced to make.4.5 million jobs is a good "start". We have lots of unfinished economic business to recover yet. There is no way in hell you are ever going to convince me That giving tax breaks weighed heavily towards millionaires and billionaires is going to make a recovery any faster and deregulated business is going to be better than what we're doing now.

patteeu
10-05-2012, 12:59 PM
4.5 million jobs is a good "start". We have lots of unfinished economic business to recover yet. There is no way in hell you are ever going to convince me That giving tax breaks weighed heavily towards millionaires and billionaires is going to make a recovery any faster and deregulated business is going to be better than what we're doing now.

I'm glad Jim Jones didn't get a hold of you, BigKoolaidChugger.

thecoffeeguy
10-05-2012, 01:03 PM
One month before the election and the unemployment # is back to where it was when we were losing 850K jobs a month. On the edge of a possible depression to the start of a recovery.


If you you really think today's numbers are accurate, then you are completely out of touch. Today's numbers make zero sense and our economy is on the verge of another double dip.

TEX
10-05-2012, 02:42 PM
4.5 million jobs is a good "start". We have lots of unfinished economic business to recover yet. There is no way in hell you are ever going to convince me That giving tax breaks weighed heavily towards millionaires and billionaires is going to make a recovery any faster and deregulated business is going to be better than what we're doing now.

Nobody needs to convince you of anything. You're in the hopeless crowd. Your mind is already made up. You have exactly the type of mindset that is destroying our country. It's the undecided folks is who need convincing. Debate # 1 was a good start of doing just that.

aturnis
10-05-2012, 11:12 PM
Whatever, take the graph back to the beginning of the Pelosi/Reid/Bush Regime?

Congressman Barnies frank, forced banks to loan money to have nots. Then they walked away from loans they couldn't afford, Bernank printed trillions, the rest is history.

Rock Obama borrows and spends as much as he can, the fed prints the money and hands it to him.

How is that bacon price? How is the price of corn? Gasoline?

How is the unemployment rate working?

He don't give a damn about poor people, just implementing marxist change.


Rule 1: Debauch the currency.

Rule 2: Detach the citizenry from the past.

Go ahead, America is his bitch. Go ahead and vote for him.

You do realize that deregulation is a Republican value and was Republican legislation right?

aturnis
10-05-2012, 11:29 PM
So you don't know they are wrong, but you are just assuming they are either wrong or distorted to fit an agenda.

When one source has a blatantly obvious agenda, I'd say it's quite a bit less reliable, whether or not I know them to be correct or not.

aturnis
10-05-2012, 11:39 PM
Let's take BRC's first graph for example. Is it an unbiased fact to show that data set in isolation or should the context of a larger span of time be shown? The time span selected focuses on Obama's term, which makes sense, but if you look at the months preceding Obama's inauguration (for lack of a better chart I'll use one that projects an unlikely future as well)...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/Jobs%20Growth%20Projected.jpg

... we see that Obama's term started fairly deep in an employment trough. If anything, it should be easier to create jobs when so much labor is available than it would have been to create jobs at peak employment. Furthermore, a bigger picture view of this data shows that Obama's "break even or so" leaves us way behind where we were mere months before he took over. Even though you can't blame him for losses that preceded him, his performance is cast in a different light if it looks like he's returned us to an employment maximum than when it looks like he's barely recovered from the losses that did happen on his watch and now, despite tepid job growth numbers, a huge hill still remains ahead to get the country back where it was 5 long years ago.

What kind of logic is this? Less people have jobs, and therefore less people have money. Why would it be easier to create jobs? Because people have money, much less disposable income to spend on goods and services?

Stopping the downward spiral of job loss and putting people back to work was a monumental task...

BigRedChief
10-05-2012, 11:57 PM
Nobody needs to convince you of anything. You're in the hopeless crowd. Your mind is already made up. You have exactly the type of mindset that is destroying our country. It's the undecided folks is who need convincing. Debate # 1 was a good start of doing just that.Pot meet kettle pal.

Bill Parcells
10-06-2012, 07:04 AM
Price of gas in 2009 was $1.75 per gl

2012? $3.75per gl

You forgot that one.

These more jobs have people making less money. hey, thats great getting more people to work at Mcdonalds and wendys! bravo!

mlyonsd
10-06-2012, 07:21 AM
Fact: 600,000 part time jobs are welcomed by Obama as proof his policies are working.

patteeu
10-06-2012, 09:26 AM
You do realize that deregulation is a Republican value and was Republican legislation right?

There's no such thing as deregulation. There are just competing ideas of regulatory reform.

Braincase
10-06-2012, 09:44 AM
Price of gas in 2009 was $1.75 per gl

2012? $3.75per gl

You forgot that one.

These more jobs have people making less money. hey, thats great getting more people to work at Mcdonalds and wendys! bravo!

http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=96&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G