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Marcellus
12-17-2012, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the good info Marty and TBG. I am just really skeptical and I really don't trust Clark all that much.

And if his first choice is Cowher than he is just making the same mistake again unfortunately for us.

How so? Cowher and Pioli would not seem to be close to being the same.

soopamanluva
12-17-2012, 03:25 PM
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Exactly. If what was posted is true, the dude basically has no power anymore....

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:25 PM
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Once again, other than placating a bunch of impatient fans, what USEFUL purpose does it serve?

He doesn't want to screw up next year by getting all the players excited about change - it's the same craziness that led to Romeo Crennel being hired as head coach.

There's NO REASON to make changes now. NONE, NADA, ZILCH

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 03:26 PM
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:26 PM
Exactly. If what was posted is true, the dude basically has no power anymore....

Which means the ONLY thing that hasn't been done is TELL THE FANS he's been fired.

Are we really THAT self-important?

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:27 PM
Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.

But but but...I just can't wait! Fire him and make me feel better, please!

dirk digler
12-17-2012, 03:27 PM
How so? Cowher and Pioli would not seem to be close to being the same.

Going after the "big name"..

I have major concerns about Cowher and his desire to coach and if he is willing to put in the hours and the effort again. We all know the stat about coaches that won a SB going to a different team, it never works out.

Heck Cowher said a few times this season on the CBS show that Cassel was a good QB and should be the starter. No thanks

Guru
12-17-2012, 03:30 PM
Once again, other than placating a bunch of impatient fans, what USEFUL purpose does it serve?

He doesn't want to screw up next year by getting all the players excited about change - it's the same craziness that led to Romeo Crennel being hired as head coach.

There's NO REASON to make changes now. NONE, NADA, ZILCH

Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.
Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

Marcellus
12-17-2012, 03:31 PM
Going after the "big name"..

I have major concerns about Cowher and his desire to coach and if he is willing to put in the hours and the effort again. We all know the stat about coaches that won a SB going to a different team, it never works out.

Heck Cowher said a few times this season on the CBS show that Cassel was a good QB and should be the starter. No thanks

Ah, I see. Until Fisher went to the Rams and instantly made them better I was against Cowher.

The Rams have shit for talent and have been playing very well compared to last season.

Cowher instantly makes the Chiefs better. How much better? I dunno.

bevischief
12-17-2012, 03:32 PM
There is no one to rally them to care this season.

Red Beans
12-17-2012, 03:33 PM
Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

If he's as big of an asshole as has been reported, it just might make them care.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:33 PM
Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

And what if it does?

You're being selfish, that's all there is to it.

dirk digler
12-17-2012, 03:39 PM
Ah, I see. Until Fisher went to the Rams and instantly made them better I was against Cowher.

The Rams have shit for talent and have been playing very well compared to last season.

Cowher instantly makes the Chiefs better. How much better? I dunno.

The difference between those 2 IMO is that Fisher still has motivation:
1. He was fired
2. He hasn't won a SB yet and I don't think he ever will
3. He didn't sit out for 5 years and lose his wife

IMHO if the goal is to draft a young QB #1 then I would rather have a young coach to grow with that QB not an old coach looking for a pay day and who will be here just 3-4 years.

Groves
12-17-2012, 03:39 PM
If pioli is gone, why not just let him go now?

For the same reason we don't immediately cut all the QBs and aging guards playing center on the roster.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 03:41 PM
IMHO if the goal is to draft a young QB #1 then I would rather have a young coach to grow with that QB not an old coach looking for a pay day and who will be here just 3-4 years.

Cowher build it up and then retire in 4 years would be perfect since our QB will be in his prime. We aren't winning the Super Bowl until Barkley/Geno gets to be 27 or 28 anyways.

Guru
12-17-2012, 03:42 PM
And what if it does?

You're being selfish, that's all there is to it.

whatever man. I just don't see any point sitting on it if it is already done.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:43 PM
whatever man. I just don't see any point sitting on it if it is already done.

Because the season isn't over.

Give us ONE good reason to do it now that actually helps the team and prepares them for next year.

dirk digler
12-17-2012, 03:45 PM
Cowher build it up and then retire in 4 years would be perfect since our QB will be in his prime. We aren't winning the Super Bowl until Barkley/Geno gets to be 27 or 28 anyways.

IMO the only reason you bring in a guy like Cowher is to win now. Everything I have heard about Cowher is that he doesn't want a rebuilding situation.

So the question becomes is the Chiefs talent really as good as we thought prior to the season and the coaching was the main problem or is it 2-12 good ?

Guru
12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
Because the season isn't over.

Give us ONE good reason to do it now that actually helps the team and prepares them for next year.

Worked out just fine at the end of 2008.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 03:48 PM
IMO the only reason you bring in a guy like Cowher is to win now. Everything I have heard about Cowher is that he doesn't want a rebuilding situation.

So the question becomes is the Chiefs talent really as good as we thought prior to the season and the coaching was the main problem or is it 2-12 good ?

Not much different between 7-9 team the year before. Better coaching, new QB, and few changes and this team will be back in it pretty quick.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:49 PM
Worked out just fine at the end of 2008.

So you're essentially flipping a coin and hoping that it works out, just so you can feel better now instead of 2 weeks from now?

Seriously, that's silly.

RunKC
12-17-2012, 03:50 PM
If Clark announces that Pioli is canned right now, the players know that RAC is going to follow suit.

The players love RAC and will want to win a game for him since they know he's going to be let go. They'll play extra hard and possibly win just like they did against the Panthers and Packers.

Good move by Clark not to risk this shit. We NEED the #1 pick.

Guru
12-17-2012, 03:53 PM
So you're essentially flipping a coin and hoping that it works out, just so you can feel better now instead of 2 weeks from now?

Seriously, that's silly.

Love how you are making this all about me. I'm done with this subject.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:54 PM
Love how you are making this all about me. I'm done with this subject.

I'm making it about you because you happen to be the person on the other end of the conversation.

Of course, we've been talking about this for weeks and I'm making a generalization and always have been.

Sorry you feel singled out but you happened to be the person responding.

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2012, 03:54 PM
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

Guru
12-17-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm making it about you because you happen to be the person on the other end of the conversation.

Of course, we've been talking about this for weeks and I'm making a generalization and always have been.

Sorry you feel singled out but you happened to be the person responding.

It's all good. I just don't want to go any further with it. :thumb:

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:57 PM
It's all good. I just don't want to go any further with it. :thumb:

In 2 weeks, it will be moot. :p

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 03:57 PM
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

ST revenue and single game tickets would make it worthwile for Cowher.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 03:58 PM
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

He's already paying Pioli over $5M per. Not really a stretch I imagine.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 03:59 PM
Also the Chiefs haven't sent out any STH renewls yet, or I haven't gotten mine. Which is weird since I have had my tickets since 2006 this is the lastest they have sent them out.

Guru
12-17-2012, 04:02 PM
In 2 weeks, it will be moot. :p

Finally

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2012, 04:14 PM
ST revenue and single game tickets would make it worthwile for Cowher.

This town will throw a parade if Cowher is hired. He's a winning version of Marty. I just find it hard to imagine that if he's ready to comeback to the NFL there won't be a huge bidding war for him.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:18 PM
Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so fuck it, it's gonna happen.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:19 PM
This town will throw a parade if Cowher is hired.

A large portion of this town would rather draft a MLB than a QB, too.

:Lin:

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:19 PM
Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so **** it, it's gonna happen.

He could come here and go 10-6 every year and not have a playoff win and be enshrined in Chiefs lore. The bar isn't exactly set real high.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
He could come here and go 10-6 every year and not have a playoff win and be enshrined in Chiefs lore. The bar isn't exactly set real high.

Yeah, but FFS, where we are now, I'd take 10-6 and give me a chance with a new QB.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:22 PM
Yeah, but FFS, where we are now, I'd take 10-6 and give me a chance with a new QB.

Nah. Even though we've dropped this far, the Super Bowl is still a goal.

We're one of the only teams in the league where our team's "heyday" doesn't even include the postseason...

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:23 PM
I know, but you gotta start somewhere.

dirk digler
12-17-2012, 04:24 PM
Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so fuck it, it's gonna happen.

Well if Marty story is true he has already talked to him and so he probably has a good idea if he is interested or not.

I am honestly not all that excited about Cowher but there could be worse hires

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2012, 04:24 PM
A large portion of this town would rather draft a MLB than a QB, too.

:Lin:

Yeah but Cowher has a proven record its not like he's Herm, Gunther, or Haley.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:26 PM
Well if Marty story is true he has already talked to him and so he probably has a good idea if he is interested or not.

I am honestly not all that excited about Cowher but there could be worse hires

Every person you hire is gonna have some questions. Just gotta take a chance.

And if he's already talked to Bill, and still considers that he's the first option when the job comes open, is a pretty good indicator to how the meeting went.

RunKC
12-17-2012, 04:36 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

Guru
12-17-2012, 04:41 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

here we go with that again. LMAO

Therefore it must be impossible.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:42 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

But KC is going to buck that trend.

Haven't won a playoff game in 2 decades but we are gonna be the place where Bill Cowher does something that no other coach has ever done.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:42 PM
here we go with that again. LMAO

Therefore it must be impossible.

Winning the lottery isn't impossible. Is it PROBABLE?

Guru
12-17-2012, 04:43 PM
But KC is going to buck that trend.

Haven't won a playoff game in 2 decades but we are gonna be the place where Bill Cowher does something that no other coach has ever done.

LMAO

Why not KC. heh

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:44 PM
While I'm sure Clark wants to first off field a SB winning coach, I'm sure bringing in a coach that will automatically sell out ST's is up there fairly close.


If you hire Gruden or Cowher and draft Geno first overall, ALOT of ST's will be sold.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Curious, how many coaches have won a SB with a team and gone on to coach somewhere else?

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Yeah this team hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years because they haven't drafted a QB. That changes so tell me why Bill Cowher couldn't win another super bowl? Its not like he won it with the greatest show on turf or anything.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:47 PM
If you hire Gruden or Cowher and draft Geno first overall, ALOT of ST's will be sold.

Very very true.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:49 PM
Curious, how many coaches have won a SB with a team and gone on to coach somewhere else?

Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:51 PM
Not sure Shanahan can't break that trend, now that he has a QB that was pretty much born and raised for the system he runs.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:52 PM
Yeah this team hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years because they haven't drafted a QB. That changes so tell me why Bill Cowher couldn't win another super bowl? Its not like he won it with the greatest show on turf or anything.

It's not that he couldn't. It's that it's very very unlikely.

There's a double standard here that people aren't realizing.

If we are willing to throw out history and hire Cowher, why do we need a 1st round QB? Might as well roll with Stanzi and defy history multiple times.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:52 PM
How many of those coaches have had a franchise QB at the second stop?


I know Parcells never did, cause he's a fucking bafoon who thought Jake Long was a first overall pick when they didn't have a QB.

Vermeil had the offense here, but the defense couldn't stop a peewee team.

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:53 PM
History was made to be broken.


AMIRIGHT

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 04:55 PM
History was made to be broken.


AMIRIGHT

I am on board.

Now lets take Te'o first and trade a 2nd for Cousins!

O.city
12-17-2012, 04:55 PM
I'm not sure why exactly it hasn't happened, it's one of those things that don't make sense. I mean obviously the guy was smart enough or good enough to win one once, so he's a proven winner.


I don't understand it.

Pestilence
12-17-2012, 04:59 PM
I'd love for the Chiefs to go after an up and coming coordinator.....but I'll fully understand if Clark goes with someone who has a proven track record.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 05:00 PM
I'm not sure why exactly it hasn't happened, it's one of those things that don't make sense. I mean obviously the guy was smart enough or good enough to win one once, so he's a proven winner.


I don't understand it.

I think a lot of them become convinced that they were far more responsible for winning than they actually were. They become more decisive which leads to amplifying mistakes and the like.

It's why dick vermeil thought he could win without a defense and parcels thought he could win with Tony Romo.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 05:01 PM
I'd love for the Chiefs to go after an up and coming coordinator.....but I'll fully understand if Clark goes with someone who has a proven track record.

Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

O.city
12-17-2012, 05:01 PM
Well I could make a case that Cowher wouldn't think that, whether he comes here or not, the way things worked out for him in Pitt.

He didn't win one for so long, then finally did what he should have and drafted Ben, then won one.

O.city
12-17-2012, 05:02 PM
Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

What's the difference? Besides Big Ben of course.

O.city
12-17-2012, 05:05 PM
Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

And also, what does it matter what EVERYONE else wants to rebuild, if Cowher is the one doing he building?

ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 05:11 PM
Heck I would be happy to have Cowher right now! At least you know you will have a physical football team all-around.

NJChiefsFan
12-17-2012, 05:27 PM
I think a lot of them become convinced that they were far more responsible for winning than they actually were. They become more decisive which leads to amplifying mistakes and the like.

It's why dick vermeil thought he could win without a defense and parcels thought he could win with Tony Romo.

Which is why winning SB's with different teams is more about circumstances and the mindset of the actual coach. There isn't something in the universe physically stopping it from happening. Unlike QB's, where actual rules and players are stopping average QB's from winning SB's. So for those reasons, to me, its not a double standard to want a SB coach but also a QBOTF.

For the record, I am not really screaming for Cowher. I wouldn't freak if we get him. To me, I just want the best possible hire. Demanding certain things is just forcing us into making a decision based off things that aren't "guy with best ability". I don't care where he came from or what he was doing prior to this, just hire the right guy.

Manila-Chief
12-17-2012, 06:55 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

I don't want Cower either ... but, this may be the perfect time for it to happen, I mean Cower would be the first to do it. But, I don't think he is that good of a coach.

But, if we are going that route, I'd rather have Gruden. He would be much better developing a young QB ... or he will be better if we go after Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

I like the idea of going with a fresh college coach ... Chip Kelly/Brian Kelly/etc. but the tract record of first time college coaches is not very high at all.

alanm
12-17-2012, 07:03 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.It doesn't mean it can't happen.

DeezNutz
12-17-2012, 07:03 PM
What's the difference? Besides Big Ben of course.

If it weren't for the ocean, this beach would suck.

alanm
12-17-2012, 07:06 PM
I am on board.

Now lets take Te'o first and trade a 2nd for Cousins!Not even in jest. :cuss:

O.city
12-17-2012, 07:06 PM
I mean other than a franchise QB coming in late, his time in Pitt is pretty similar to his time in KC.


Good,but not good enough. Got to the SB though.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 07:08 PM
But, if we are going that route, I'd rather have Gruden. He would be much better developing a young QB ... or he will be better if we go after Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

What young QB has Gruden developed?

DeezNutz
12-17-2012, 07:08 PM
I mean other than a franchise QB coming in late, his time in Pitt is pretty similar to his time in KC.


Good,but not good enough. Got to the SB though.

Yeah, I mean, he won playoff games. Went to a SB with a fucking stiff at QB, and then won a SB.

Reminds me a lot of the 90s Chiefs.

WTF, broseph? You tired?

O.city
12-17-2012, 07:09 PM
He won the SB, with Big Ben, so I'm throwing that one out.


I agree his time in Pitt was better. I'm just tired of the shit we have now, I dunno, I'm reaching for stuff.

alanm
12-17-2012, 07:17 PM
The only reason I'd be on board with bringing Cowher back is that he'd bring with him the physical mindset that this team has been missing.

That is when you got done playing the Chiefs you'd feel it all week going into the next game.

Bacon Cheeseburger
12-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.
How could you forget about Ditka? Or Jimmy Johnson?

mdchiefsfan
12-17-2012, 07:29 PM
That's if Cowher wants back in. He may not.

But he'd have full control here.

DC? No idea but it'd be a 3-4 guy.

Too right. That's what you and I have tried to explain in the banner thread.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2012, 07:31 PM
Cowher played young quarterbacks before he got Big Ben. O'Donnell was in his third season when Cowher got to Pittsburgh, started Kordell Stewart who they drafted in the second round. So he does have a history with playing young quarterbacks even before Big Ben.

O.city
12-17-2012, 07:32 PM
I'd think this is a pretty good situation to come into. Some talent on the roster, the 1st overall pick.etc.

mdchiefsfan
12-17-2012, 07:42 PM
I'd think this is a pretty good situation to come into. Some talent on the roster, the 1st overall pick.etc.

Not to mention we have a better core group of players than we had in 09 to offer.

Only reason I want someone in here asap is I want someone to be discussing things with Albert and Bowe so we don't lose some of the important parts of that core.

Bacon Cheeseburger
12-17-2012, 07:51 PM
Not to mention we have a better core group of players than we had in 09 to offer.

Wha? It's the same group four years older and minus Brandon Carr.

mdchiefsfan
12-17-2012, 08:03 PM
Wha? It's the same group four years older and minus Brandon Carr.

I would say our oline is better, with Breaston and Bowe our wr core is better. LJ isn't the rb anymore. We have two pass rushers as opposed to just Hali, who improved as a player in the 3-4 implemented in 09. There aren't any areas our team is worse than it was in 09 except for the secondary.

RunKC
12-17-2012, 08:14 PM
Not to mention we have a better core group of players than we had in 09 to offer.

Only reason I want someone in here asap is I want someone to be discussing things with Albert and Bowe so we don't lose some of the important parts of that core.

Let's put it this way: if Cowher is hired and he tells Bowe he's gonna draft a QB, Bowe would be a goddamn moron to not want to be here.

Manila-Chief
12-17-2012, 08:17 PM
What young QB has Gruden developed?

Sorry, didn't mean to infer that he has developed a young QB. In spite of the QB, he went to a SB in Oakland with Cannon and won one with Brad Johnson. He is an offensive minded coach, and I think that will be better for a young QB than a defensive guy. I know "talking heads" most of the time are just that ... talking ... but, his QB sessions for ESPN ... seems to indicate he knows a little about QB's.

I'm not pushing Gruden. Just saying I'd prefer him over Cowher.

I'd like a young coach that will be around for a very long time (meaning we will be winning a lot of games). But, how many first time coaches even survive for a few years? For every Jim & John Harbaugh or Sean Payton there are a bunch of Haley's, Josh McDaniels, Steve Spagnuolo, Tony Sporano, or Jack Del Rio.

Maybe the good news is that Clark now has experience of doing this and he will have learned via the process.

JASONSAUTO
12-17-2012, 08:18 PM
What young QB has Gruden developed?

Thank you. Fuck gruden right along with Andy Reid
Posted via Mobile Device

ILChief
12-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to infer that he has developed a young QB. In spite of the QB, he went to a SB in Oakland with Cannon and won one with Brad Johnson. He is an offensive minded coach, and I think that will be better for a young QB than a defensive guy. I know "talking heads" most of the time are just that ... talking ... but, his QB sessions for ESPN ... seems to indicate he knows a little about QB's.

I'm not pushing Gruden. Just saying I'd prefer him over Cowher.

I'd like a young coach that will be around for a very long time (meaning we will be winning a lot of games). But, how many first time coaches even survive for a few years? For every Jim & John Harbaugh or Sean Payton there are a bunch of Haley's, Josh McDaniels, Steve Spagnuolo, Tony Sporano, or Jack Del Rio.

Maybe the good news is that Clark now has experience of doing this and he will have learned via the process.

He didn't take Oakland to a Super Bowl, he beat them in the super bowl

DeezNutz
12-17-2012, 08:33 PM
I would say our oline is better, with Breaston and Bowe our wr core is better. LJ isn't the rb anymore. We have two pass rushers as opposed to just Hali, who improved as a player in the 3-4 implemented in 09. There aren't any areas our team is worse than it was in 09 except for the secondary.

Disagree.

Pioli has done absolutely nothing to improve the team, aside from Houston.

The offensive line is still fine. Defensive line still cannot stop the run, and all of our best players are Herm holdovers, now 4 years older. Pioli simply couldn't be any worse at his job.

But at least he's an asshole about it, so there's that.

Manila-Chief
12-17-2012, 08:39 PM
He didn't take Oakland to a Super Bowl, he beat them in the super bowl

Thanks for the correction ... Oakland got beat in the AFC championship game.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 09:21 PM
Why would Cowher care about total control. That's the demand of a person who's trying to build a reputation. Cowher's rep is solid. If he comes here he won't be a tyrant...it's not his personality anyway.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 09:22 PM
Disagree.

Pioli has done absolutely nothing to improve the team, aside from Houston.

The offensive line is still fine.

Pioli has done a good job with the OL IMO.

Next year it's really gonna come together.

Albert, Allen, Hudson, Asamoah and Winston are gonna kick ass.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 09:24 PM
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

What if Cowher was GM, though?

I'd be more on board with that than HC.

O.city
12-17-2012, 09:27 PM
I think if he were to come here, he's coming as HC, with him and Clark picking the GM best fit to work with him.


Which is a sweet relief, because that doesn't seem to have been happening.

O.city
12-17-2012, 09:44 PM
Clay, how would you feel about

Cowher as HC
Rex as DC
Wiz as OC

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 10:06 PM
No, I don't want Cowher as HC.

Dave Lane
12-17-2012, 10:40 PM
No, I don't want Cowher as HC.

Cowher > Fisher. Still not sure I want.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm far more apt to see him become our GM, because that way his conservaderp methods can't infect the team on gameday.

DaneMcCloud
12-17-2012, 10:51 PM
How many of those coaches have had a franchise QB at the second stop?


I know Parcells never did, cause he's a fucking bafoon who thought Jake Long was a first overall pick when they didn't have a QB.


Bledsoe

DaneMcCloud
12-17-2012, 10:52 PM
Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.

Lombardi

DaneMcCloud
12-17-2012, 10:59 PM
I think a lot of them become convinced that they were far more responsible for winning than they actually were. They become more decisive which leads to amplifying mistakes and the like.

It's why dick vermeil thought he could win without a defense and parcels thought he could win with Tony Romo.

Parcells won with Simms. He won with Hostetler. He went to a Super Bowl with Bledsoe. He went to an AFC Championship Game with Testaverde. He believed in Pennington so much that he hired him as starter in two different cities in the same division.

He only believed in Romo for 1.5 seasons. Had he stayed, maybe Romo would have won something but most likely not.

The thing to keep in mind is that it's not only a game on the field, it's a game everywhere else.

It's all a big fucking game and these guys couldn't care less about the city or the fans.

If Romo wins a Super Bowl, there will be an interview with Parcells stating "That's MY guy".

The Rick
12-17-2012, 11:00 PM
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.
Not possible. I was told on ChiefsPlanet that Clark is a cheapskate.

DaneMcCloud
12-17-2012, 11:02 PM
Not possible. I was told on ChiefsPlanet that Clark is a cheapskate.

Prove that Clark isn't cheap.

Thanks in advance.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 11:08 PM
Clark is probably less cheap than you imagine since everyone is getting fired soon.

It'd be easy for him to save money by maintaining status quo.

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2012, 11:14 PM
It's not that he couldn't. It's that it's very very unlikely.

There's a double standard here that people aren't realizing.

If we are willing to throw out history and hire Cowher, why do we need a 1st round QB? Might as well roll with Stanzi and defy history multiple times.

The problem with this argument is

A) Cowher is a capable HC.

B) Stanzi isn't an NFL QB.

MotherfuckerJones
12-17-2012, 11:30 PM
To make money ya gota spend money. Can Pioli, let RAC bow out. Then go all out for a great HC. Im totally fine with Cowher or Gruden. I want a coach that will give a team some attitude and confidence.

Count Zarth
12-17-2012, 11:55 PM
Pioli Doc (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1nQtFpV6F1CiSloh_01lwwDT-8uZvQy9VyvIaW70EkLc) updated with the following bolds.

1. Chiefs record under Scott Pioli: 23-40 (includes playoff loss).

This is the worst record for a GM in Chiefs history.
Jim Schaaf: .387 (1976-1988)
Scott Pioli: .365 (2009-2012)

4. Chiefs have lost by 14 or more points under Scott Pioli 22 times in 63 games.


The Pioli regime, to date, features 63 games.

We have lost by 14 or more points in 22 of those games. That is 34.9 percent.

That means MORE than 1/3 of the time, Scott Pioli's Chiefs teams get their butts kicked.

Blowout losses (14+) by year

2009: 5
2010: 4
2011: 5
2012: 8 (with more to come, betcha betcha)

Editor's note: Pioli's Chiefs have 23 wins and 22 losses by 14 or more points. That's funny.

teedubya
12-18-2012, 12:09 AM
the Chiefs will fire Pioli tomorrow and the world will end on Friday. Fitting really.

:cuss:

jaa1025
12-18-2012, 12:18 AM
Prove that Clark isn't cheap.

Thanks in advance.


Fired Carl Peterson, Herman Edwards and the rest of the coaching staff
Hired Scott Pioli to a rumored "richest gm contract ever" or something like that.
Hired the #1 OC in Weis to essentially HC money
Hired the #1 DC in RAC to essentially HC money
Paid off Haley, Chan Gailey (am I missing someone, seems there has been more turnaround)
Is about to fire Pioli (very $$$) and RAC + Staff if the rumors are true.
Will hire new GM and coaching staff and hopefully it's a homerun.

I don't think he's been cheap in FA or hiring a coach last year worth a damn or refused to give the money to resign Carr as much as no one wants to come here because of Pioli and the situation he's caused.
--Carr was rumored to want out badly.
--Bowe was rumored to want out badly until he publicly stated otherwise...yeah, don't really believe that he wants to stay.
--Albert will probably leave if tagged.
--Fisher rumored to walk out of the interview with Pioli
--Manning wanted no part of KC, likely because he knew...as everyone does...that this situation is toxic.

mdchiefsfan
12-18-2012, 03:15 AM
Disagree.

Pioli has done absolutely nothing to improve the team, aside from Houston.

The offensive line is still fine. Defensive line still cannot stop the run, and all of our best players are Herm holdovers, now 4 years older. Pioli simply couldn't be any worse at his job.

But at least he's an asshole about it, so there's that.

LMAO

There are two areas I want to see improved before I declare our talent a bust. I want to see how they perform with a legit HC and I would like to see some team leaders brought in. Hopefully the new QB will come in and take that position with the offense, but we need to bring a guy in defensively that will make these players more accountable and keep them motivated. It is painfully obvious that DJ and Hali are not those guys.

It is also very apparent that this team quit less than half way into the season. That kind of thing just doesn't happen with the two things mentioned above. But this issue means one of two things: we lack all around leadership or we have a team full of pussies. I am inclined to believe the former.

Fruit Ninja
12-18-2012, 03:19 AM
still will never forget when they asked Pioli why Peyton's team never called him back. He was like i have no idea and the look on his face. I know there is video out there of it somewhere.

oldman
12-18-2012, 05:23 AM
LMAO

There are two areas I want to see improved before I declare our talent a bust. I want to see how they perform with a legit HC and I would like to see some team leaders brought in. Hopefully the new QB will come in and take that position with the offense, but we need to bring a guy in defensively that will make these players more accountable and keep them motivated. It is painfully obvious that DJ and Hali are not those guys.

It is also very apparent that this team quit less than half way into the season. That kind of thing just doesn't happen with the two things mentioned above. But this issue means one of two things: we lack all around leadership or we have a team full of pussies. I am inclined to believe the former.

That's why I'm pretty OK with Cowher and, to some extent, Gruden. We need our identity back, Arrowhead needs to be a place the other team fears. I'm not saying bring back Marty-ball, but bring back that buckle your chinstrap attitude. We've tried quick-strike finese, we've tried whatever Herm brought, and then a host of other things and they didn't work. So what did work? You got it, hard-nosed football.

mdchiefsfan
12-18-2012, 05:43 AM
That's why I'm pretty OK with Cowher and, to some extent, Gruden. We need our identity back, Arrowhead needs to be a place the other team fears. I'm not saying bring back Marty-ball, but bring back that buckle your chinstrap attitude. We've tried quick-strike finese, we've tried whatever Herm brought, and then a host of other things and they didn't work. So what did work? You got it, hard-nosed football.

I'm reserved on Cowher, though, I prefer him over the Polians. I would rather take a shot at Tom Gamble from SF and see what he can do.

I get the inherent risk of giving a new guy a shot at something as important as GM, especially since he must be hands on, but that is why I really like Tom Gamble.

The man has done it all: college scouting, pro scouting, contract negotiations, and even has some coaching background. This man knows football. What man could let Clark enjoy soccer without a care in the world, better than this one?

soopamanluva
12-18-2012, 06:00 AM
Fired Carl Peterson, Herman Edwards and the rest of the coaching staff
Hired Scott Pioli to a rumored "richest gm contract ever" or something like that.
Hired the #1 OC in Weis to essentially HC money
Hired the #1 DC in RAC to essentially HC money
Paid off Haley, Chan Gailey (am I missing someone, seems there has been more turnaround)
Is about to fire Pioli (very $$$) and RAC + Staff if the rumors are true.
Will hire new GM and coaching staff and hopefully it's a homerun.

I don't think he's been cheap in FA or hiring a coach last year worth a damn or refused to give the money to resign Carr as much as no one wants to come here because of Pioli and the situation he's caused.
--Carr was rumored to want out badly.
--Bowe was rumored to want out badly until he publicly stated otherwise...yeah, don't really believe that he wants to stay.
--Albert will probably leave if tagged.
--Fisher rumored to walk out of the interview with Pioli
--Manning wanted no part of KC, likely because he knew...as everyone does...that this situation is toxic.

Never paid Haley.....

mdchiefsfan
12-18-2012, 06:07 AM
Never paid Haley.....

Could have been Pioli's doing.

Guru
12-18-2012, 06:53 AM
:cuss:

You have to admit it would be just our luck.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-18-2012, 06:56 AM
I truly, and honestly don't give a shit who we hire. Don't care, at all. Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, all names I've kind of thought were shitty in the past, all look pretty damned good now. Motherfuck you, Scott Pioli.

Guru
12-18-2012, 06:56 AM
I truly, and honestly don't give a shit who we hire. Don't care, at all. Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, all names I've kind of thought were shitty in the past, all look pretty damned good now. Mother**** you, Scott Pioli.

THIS

mdchiefsfan
12-18-2012, 06:59 AM
I truly, and honestly don't give a shit who we hire. Don't care, at all. Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, all names I've kind of thought were shitty in the past, all look pretty damned good now. Mother**** you, Scott Pioli.

LMAO I guess the new slogan can be:

MOTHER**** YOU, SCOTT! :cuss:

Mr. Flopnuts
12-18-2012, 07:23 AM
I truly, and honestly don't give a shit who we hire. Don't care, at all. Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, all names I've kind of thought were shitty in the past, all look pretty damned good now. Motherfuck you, Scott Pioli.

That said, I'd still like to see us hire Bruce Arians.

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 07:41 AM
Once again, other than placating a bunch of impatient fans, what USEFUL purpose does it serve?

He doesn't want to screw up next year by getting all the players excited about change - it's the same craziness that led to Romeo Crennel being hired as head coach.

There's NO REASON to make changes now. NONE, NADA, ZILCH

I'm not trying to start a war, but I think if you fire Pioli, it gives you more time to court your next GM. Maybe he's already doing that. Is it like coaches where you can't talk until after the season? Either way, there's no reason to keep Pioli if it inhibits you in any way from getting your guy.

I said long ago that if it were me, I'd have fired his ass around week 6, told Donovan to give Bowe whatever the fuck he wants, and went out and found my guy.

But maybe since there is two weeks left, there isn't anything to gain from doing it now.


IMHO if the goal is to draft a young QB #1 then I would rather have a young coach to grow with that QB not an old coach looking for a pay day and who will be here just 3-4 years.

I'm with Dirk. Keep Cowher the fuck out of KC. And Cowher as GM? Does he even know anything about being a GM?

And why the fuck are we talking about finding a coach first? Hire a good GM, let him hire the coach. There has to be some cohesiveness there. They have to be able to find synergy between personnel decisions and scheme. It just has to be that way. Find the right GM, he'll find the right coach.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 07:50 AM
Never paid Haley.....

Pioli pays the coach, he's their boss. Pioli fired him WITH CAUSE and therefore is not entitled to any present or future compensation.

100% Pioli.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 07:53 AM
I'm not trying to start a war, but I think if you fire Pioli, it gives you more time to court your next GM. Maybe he's already doing that. Is it like coaches where you can't talk until after the season? Either way, there's no reason to keep Pioli if it inhibits you in any way from getting your guy.

There's also no reason to fire him if it doesn't inhibit you from getting your guy. Clark has reportedly already been interviewing and meeting with candidates, so it appears that the presence of Pioli has no effect whatsoever on the process of hiring the next guy.

But maybe since there is two weeks left, there isn't anything to gain from doing it now.

After week 10 or so, there was nothing to gain from doing it in-season.

And why the **** are we talking about finding a coach first? Hire a good GM, let him hire the coach. There has to be some cohesiveness there. They have to be able to find synergy between personnel decisions and scheme. It just has to be that way. Find the right GM, he'll find the right coach.

We've tried letting GM hire the coach. It hasn't worked. We need a different arrangement, more like Marty had with Carl where they were peers. Giving complete control to one guy does not work.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 07:55 AM
The problem with this argument is

A) Cowher is a capable HC.

B) Stanzi isn't an NFL QB.

Completely irrelevant.

Parcells, Vermeil, and Seifert were all capable HC - HoF material even - and they couldn't do it.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 07:56 AM
The eternal optimist, NFL cheerleader, and most conservative football talking head there is, Kevin Harlan, sounds like he feels Pioli is done.

Best sign yet.

Of course, he went on to say there wasn't a franchise QB available in the upcoming draft...

Mr. Flopnuts
12-18-2012, 08:02 AM
I'm with htis on all of this. It makes NO sense to fire him now. There isn't any one player to appease like Cam Newton in Carolina. Let Pioli own this entire season of shit, and move on with a #1 pick, and a fresh regime.

But I know it's not patience that is the issue, it's fear. Don't let it consume you. Pioli, Rac, Daboll, and Cassel are fucking out of here in less than 2 weeks. Take it to the bank.

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 08:05 AM
You're probably right on the firing Pioli stuff, I just wanted to throw it out there.


We've tried letting GM hire the coach. It hasn't worked. We need a different arrangement, more like Marty had with Carl where they were peers. Giving complete control to one guy does not work.

I don't think that them being forced to be peers by ownership is the right call.

I think you just hire a GM that isn't a fucking pile of motherfucking cunt juice mixed with runny dog shit and firmed up with puss from a festering rat plague boil.

If you get a GM that isn't an egomaniac control freak and understands the importance of a good coach and doesn't just try to execute some dumbass system where he tries to be the smartest guy in the room, they should get along OK. Are there any other cases where a coach is forced on a GM?

Dayze
12-18-2012, 08:10 AM
bring in Trent Green as OC.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 09:18 AM
I don't think that them being forced to be peers by ownership is the right call.

I think you just hire a GM that isn't a ****ing pile of mother****ing **** juice mixed with runny dog shit and firmed up with puss from a festering rat plague boil.

If you get a GM that isn't an egomaniac control freak and understands the importance of a good coach and doesn't just try to execute some dumbass system where he tries to be the smartest guy in the room, they should get along OK. Are there any other cases where a coach is forced on a GM?

It takes a certain kind of person to be an NFL head coach or NFL GM. I think they are INHERENTLY egomaniacs.

It's purely Machiavellian - absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You could bring in anybody you want but the minute you give him complete control, things get skewed. Maybe not to Pioli levels but they still get skewed.

The coach and GM HAVE to at least be peers or it is ultimately doomed to fail.

O.city
12-18-2012, 10:00 AM
IMO, if Clark wants to be the type of owner we have all talked about, you can't have someone with absolute power, as we've seen what can happen.


Therefor, you bring in a HC and a GM, tell them "damn it, you two are gonna work together and we're gonna get this right" and roll from there.

Easy 6
12-18-2012, 10:03 AM
Pioli has done a good job with the OL IMO.

Next year it's really gonna come together.

Albert, Allen, Hudson, Asamoah and Winston are gonna kick ass.

They're better than advertised, i'll agree on that.

But how are the fade able to chew them up every single time? they never fail to get abused against them, pathetic displays every time.

bevischief
12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
They're better than advertised, i'll agree on that.

But how are the fade able to chew them up every single time? they never fail to get abused against them, pathetic displays every time.

They have given up this year the faiders haven't.

patteeu
12-18-2012, 10:06 AM
It takes a certain kind of person to be an NFL head coach or NFL GM. I think they are INHERENTLY egomaniacs.

I think that's right. IMO, Pioli's personality failure (as opposed to his job performance failures) was insecurity, not ego. If he had the confidence to let his coach coach and to let his coach and players interact with the public like normal human beings instead of putting the organization on lockdown, he would have been a lot more likable.

Count Zarth
12-18-2012, 10:07 AM
Well, Allen is a rookie who has been getting abused (showed improvement before Raiders game), Stephenson clearly isn't ready, and Lilja always gets raped by Oakland.

So that's 3 positions that will be different next year.

O.city
12-18-2012, 10:17 AM
I would also question the fact that against Oakland, when they were beating us inside, we kept running the ball where? You guessed it, inside.

patteeu
12-18-2012, 10:18 AM
IMO, if Clark wants to be the type of owner we have all talked about, you can't have someone with absolute power, as we've seen what can happen.


Therefor, you bring in a HC and a GM, tell them "damn it, you two are gonna work together and we're gonna get this right" and roll from there.

I don't agree at all. CEOs with what you're calling "absolute power" run large organizations all over our country. It's the standard organizational model. IMO, it's a lot better to have one person in charge than it is to expect two to work together without one being able to have the final say. Ideally, the person in charge will be good at accepting input and forming consensus within the leadership of the organization but someone has to make the final decision. It can be the GM or the HC, but someone has to be the final say unless the owner is willing to referee disagreements.

I don't know who it was that said that Carl and Marty were peers, but that wasn't the case. Carl was the boss for most of their time together. Marty was reportedly given greater control over personnel at the end, but it's not clear to me what the arrangement was and it certainly didn't improve the product on the field.

patteeu
12-18-2012, 10:19 AM
I would also question the fact that against Oakland, when they were beating us inside, we kept running the ball where? You guessed it, inside.

Yeah, that seemed weird to me.

O.city
12-18-2012, 10:22 AM
I don't agree at all. CEOs with what you're calling "absolute power" run large organizations all over our country. It's the standard organizational model. IMO, it's a lot better to have one person in charge than it is to expect two to work together without one being able to have the final say. Ideally, the person in charge will be good at accepting input and forming consensus within the leadership of the organization but someone has to make the final decision. It can be the GM or the HC, but someone has to be the final say unless the owner is willing to referee disagreements.

I don't know who it was that said that Carl and Marty were peers, but that wasn't the case. Carl was the boss for most of their time together. Marty was reportedly given greater control over personnel at the end, but it's not clear to me what the arrangement was and it certainly didn't improve the product on the field.

I think you kind of took my statement wrong, or I phrased it a little wrong.


The GM will make the personnel decisions, based on what the coach inputs to him that he wants and what he then thinks is the best. We have a huge disconnect here in that our current GM makes decisions seemingly not caring what the coach wants and what HE along thinks is best.

The NFL is a little different than big business, but you are right in that one guy will make the decision.

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 10:31 AM
It takes a certain kind of person to be an NFL head coach or NFL GM. I think they are INHERENTLY egomaniacs.

It's purely Machiavellian - absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You could bring in anybody you want but the minute you give him complete control, things get skewed. Maybe not to Pioli levels but they still get skewed.

The coach and GM HAVE to at least be peers or it is ultimately doomed to fail.

:spock:

Meh, I don't know about all of that. In just about every organization ever, there's been a boss and a subordinate. And from a technical perspective, the GM is the boss. Because he's the manager. He's no different than a CEO is the boss of the COO CFO and whatever other divisions there are. If the GM is worth a fuck, he'll let the coach coach, just like the CEO lets the CFO and COO run their business.

IMO, it is no different than a CEO. In order to be successful the GM needs to

Put his coach in a position to succeed (players, contracts, etc)
Allow him to be a manager (don't meddle like that cocksucking Pioli)
Hold them accountable for results over what they have control over.
Work together amicably.


All of which is like any other manager in the country. And there are good managers and shitty managers. Pioli was (you see what I did there, "was" :D) a shitty manager.

I don't think it is wise to force a coach on a GM. Translated to the business world, that's like being a manager over someone you can't fire. That's not good for anybody.

O.city
12-18-2012, 10:45 AM
The GM, once the season starts, should really have nothing to do with the gameday, football things. He brings the players in, then lets the coach coach.

patteeu
12-18-2012, 10:54 AM
I think you kind of took my statement wrong, or I phrased it a little wrong.


The GM will make the personnel decisions, based on what the coach inputs to him that he wants and what he then thinks is the best. We have a huge disconnect here in that our current GM makes decisions seemingly not caring what the coach wants and what HE along thinks is best.

The NFL is a little different than big business, but you are right in that one guy will make the decision.

Sorry. I misunderstood. I'm OK with giving either of them final say over personnel, it just depends on who they are. If Clark wants a veteran coach (like Cowher), I'm more comfortable with the idea of hiring a GM who will serve the decision-making coach. If he's more inclined to get a first-time coach, I'm more inclined to prefer a GM who makes the decisions with input from the coach.

O.city
12-18-2012, 11:00 AM
Yep, spot on there patteu.

We just have a huge void and problem with that right now, but it's about to be fixed.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 11:02 AM
I don't think it is wise to force a coach on a GM. Translated to the business world, that's like being a manager over someone you can't fire. That's not good for anybody.

I'm not suggest your force a coach on the GM.

I'm suggesting the GM and head coach should be peers and work hand-in-hand.

To take your analogy further, Clark Hunt is the CEO. The GM is the CTO and the coach is the COO. The CTO creates the vision and acquires the "technical" pieces to accomplish the organizational vision. The COO carries out the plan and manages the operation. They're peers, independent and interdependent at the same time.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 11:04 AM
If Clark wants a veteran coach (like Cowher), I'm more comfortable with the idea of hiring a GM who will serve the decision-making coach. If he's more inclined to get a first-time coach, I'm more inclined to prefer a GM who makes the decisions with input from the coach.

Whoa. That's too reasonable. Get that outta here!

:D

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 11:12 AM
I'm not suggest your force a coach on the GM.

I'm suggesting the GM and head coach should be peers and work hand-in-hand.

To take your analogy further, Clark Hunt is the CEO. The GM is the CTO and the coach is the COO. The CTO creates the vision and acquires the "technical" pieces to accomplish the organizational vision. The COO carries out the plan and manages the operation. They're peers, independent and interdependent at the same time.

I'm not disagreeing that they do markedly different tasks within the organization, but the fact is the GM hires the coach. I think what you are wanting is a GM who will let the coach coach. To that end I agree 100%. It is critical to the success of the organization that GM lets the coach do his job and not meddle like an obsessive cunt.

I don't see any reason to believe Clark will now start hiring coaches to change that dynamic. And frankly, I don't think we want that. Clark isn't a football guy and doesn't immerse himself in the league enough to know the nuances between coaches, scheme, personnel, all that stuff. That'd be like me me picking drapes. I'm most likely to make a horrible decision. I may pick some out that strike some fancy with me, but the probability of them working with the design function of the room, or having any intrinsic functional use is low. I could luck out and make the right choice, but let's be real here. I'm gonna fuck that up. Bad.

IMO, you pick a good GM. GM hires a good coach. Both do their jobs and work together. If a GM is incapable of that, he's not a good GM.

dirk digler
12-18-2012, 11:19 AM
Pioli has done a good job with the OL IMO.

Next year it's really gonna come together.

Albert, Allen, Hudson, Asamoah and Winston are gonna kick ass.

I don't know about that it doesn't seem they can pass block very well

O.city
12-18-2012, 11:21 AM
I don't know about that it doesn't seem they can pass block very well

I think that has a little more to do with who's taking the snap, than who's giving it.

Count Zarth
12-18-2012, 11:24 AM
I don't know about that it doesn't seem they can pass block very well

Albert, Hudson, Asamoah and Winston are all excellent pass blockers.

Stephenson, Allen, and Lilja have not been this year, and weren't Sunday.

the Talking Can
12-18-2012, 11:27 AM
are we there yet?

dirk digler
12-18-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't agree at all. CEOs with what you're calling "absolute power" run large organizations all over our country. It's the standard organizational model. IMO, it's a lot better to have one person in charge than it is to expect two to work together without one being able to have the final say. Ideally, the person in charge will be good at accepting input and forming consensus within the leadership of the organization but someone has to make the final decision. It can be the GM or the HC, but someone has to be the final say unless the owner is willing to referee disagreements.

I don't know who it was that said that Carl and Marty were peers, but that wasn't the case. Carl was the boss for most of their time together. Marty was reportedly given greater control over personnel at the end, but it's not clear to me what the arrangement was and it certainly didn't improve the product on the field.

Yep. Carl had pretty much total power and the way Clark wants to run the team he is going to hire another GM and give them total power. I honestly don't see that changing.

dirk digler
12-18-2012, 11:33 AM
I think that has a little more to do with who's taking the snap, than who's giving it.

Somewhat.

Albert, Hudson, Asamoah and Winston are all excellent pass blockers.

Stephenson, Allen, and Lilja have not been this year, and weren't Sunday.

I will take your word for it.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 11:37 AM
I think what you are wanting is a GM who will let the coach coach.

I want a GM who is going to allow the coach to have SIGNIFICANT input into personnel decisions and actually consider that input when it comes to player acquisition.

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 11:46 AM
I want a GM who is going to allow the coach to have SIGNIFICANT input into personnel decisions and actually consider that input when it comes to player acquisition.

Right. And if a GM doesn't do that, he's a bad GM. That doesn't necessarily mean Clark should force the GM and coach to structurally be peers. The GM can still have "absolute power" as you say, meaning he makes the decisions and is actually the boss over the coach. If he disregards what the coach says, he's a shit GM.

Look at it this way. Pioli is a shit GM. If Clark came in and structurally changed things to where they were peers, he'd still be a shit GM. The problem is we have a shit GM, not because the structure is bad.

Count Zarth
12-18-2012, 11:46 AM
Somewhat.



I will take your word for it.

Dude, just watch any of the games before Hudson got hurt.

This line has been fine for two years from a pass blocking standpoint outside guys like Richardson, and Lilja/Wiegmann getting raped by Oakland.

The QBs make them look at a lot worse.

DeezNutz
12-18-2012, 12:39 PM
We must go HC first because we cannot allow a dipshit GM to force talent that isn't good enough or doesn't fit a system onto the coaching the staff.

Buehler445
12-18-2012, 12:45 PM
We must go HC first because we cannot allow a dipshit GM to force talent that isn't good enough or doesn't fit a system onto the coaching the staff.

In my eyes, the key remains to hire a good GM. If he does all the things you're suggesting, he's a shit GM. He wil continue to make shit GM personnel decisions that will hurt the team. We need to avoid getting a shit GM. And let the Non-shit GM go find a good coach.

O.city
12-18-2012, 10:11 PM
I'm starting to think it's gonna be a fairly big name guy, Clark will have to pay, but I think he wants to win 1a but bring the fans back in full force 1b.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 12:35 AM
Yeah it's going to be Bill Polian. LaCanFora is hardly ever wrong.

mdchiefsfan
12-19-2012, 03:00 AM
Dude, just watch any of the games before Hudson got hurt.

This line has been fine for two years from a pass blocking standpoint outside guys like Richardson, and Lilja/Wiegmann getting raped by Oakland.

The QBs make them look at a lot worse.

I haven't read this whole thread so I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but even Winston made mention of how much harder Cassel made it for the tackles by not stepping up in the pocket.

AussieChiefsFan
12-19-2012, 03:49 AM
Some people will probably be wearing back off their own merit this sunday, but is the Blackout officially continuing?

ILChief
12-19-2012, 05:14 AM
Yeah it's going to be Bill Polian. LaCanFora is hardly ever wrong.

I just hope he wouldn't hire Jim Caldwell as coach

Guru
12-19-2012, 05:16 AM
I want to see another GM whose last name starts with a P about as much as I want to see another USC QB.

mdchiefsfan
12-19-2012, 05:42 AM
I want to see another GM whose last name starts with a P about as much as I want to see another USC QB.

LMAO

soopamanluva
12-19-2012, 06:06 AM
Pioli pays the coach, he's their boss. Pioli fired him WITH CAUSE and therefore is not entitled to any present or future compensation.

100% Pioli.

I never said it wasn't Pioli, I just corrected his post stating Haley never got paid.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 06:58 AM
Yeah it's going to be Bill Polian. LaCanFora is hardly ever wrong.

ROFL

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 06:59 AM
I want to see another GM whose last name starts with a P about as much as I want to see another USC QB.

It doesn't just start with P.

It looks just like Pioli at first glance.

Pioli Polian Pioli Polian Pioli Polian Pioli Polian Pioli Polian Pioli Polian

:Lin:

durtyrute
12-19-2012, 07:36 AM
You can't hire a burger flipper at McDonalds then go hire his boss. You hire the boss then let the boss hire the flipper.

patteeu
12-19-2012, 08:10 AM
You can't hire a burger flipper at McDonalds then go hire his boss. You hire the boss then let the boss hire the flipper.

You can hire a master chef for your restaurant and then let him hire the restaurant's business manager.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 08:12 AM
You can hire a master chef for your restaurant and then let him hire the restaurant's business manager.

This.

pr_capone
12-19-2012, 08:41 AM
Some people will probably be wearing back off their own merit this sunday, but is the Blackout officially continuing?

not officially but I will be there in my blackout shirt.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 08:56 AM
ROFL

What has LaCanfora missed on? I remember when he said John Henderson wasn't signing here and everyone went ape shit.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:17 AM
What has LaCanfora missed on? I remember when he said John Henderson wasn't signing here and everyone went ape shit.

He's been fairly accurate on Chiefs stuff because he, like Peter King, talks directly to Pioli. He's an "insider".

He's been wrong on bunches of stuff across the NFL in general, though.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:17 AM
Oh, and suggesting Henderson wasn't coming here wasn't exactly going out on a limb.

-King-
12-19-2012, 11:27 AM
Oh, and suggesting Henderson wasn't coming here wasn't exactly going out on a limb.
It kinda was since Henderson himself had said he'd come here.

Tribal Warfare
12-19-2012, 11:59 AM
Yeah it's going to be Bill Polian. LaCanFora is hardly ever wrong.

Like KC drafting Okung or Pioli getting an extension ( you were adamant on that one)

Sofa King
12-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Now what? If they're actually gone i mean.

AussieChiefsFan
12-19-2012, 05:31 PM
Now what? If they're actually gone i mean.GENO GENO GENO

bevischief
12-19-2012, 05:32 PM
Now what? If they're actually gone i mean.

We party.

Sofa King
12-19-2012, 05:35 PM
We party.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1218503_o.gif

AussieChiefsFan
12-19-2012, 05:36 PM
LMAO

bevischief
12-19-2012, 05:48 PM
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1218503_o.gif


Not my kind of party. ROFL

pr_capone
12-19-2012, 05:56 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399197_10152332575400234_175949865_n.png

Guru
12-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Oh, it was a "more than reliable source" heh.

I'll wait until it is official before I celebrate.

bevischief
12-19-2012, 05:58 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399197_10152332575400234_175949865_n.png

Sweet.

Brainiac
12-19-2012, 09:48 PM
Curious, how many coaches have won a SB with a team and gone on to coach somewhere else?

Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.

How could you forget about Ditka? Or Jimmy Johnson?

Lombardi

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. How could you possibly forget HANK STRAM? He coached the Saints for 5 years in the 1970s.

Count Zarth
12-20-2012, 07:06 AM
From Lord Martin, The Wise:


The University of Oregon is facing a likely NCAA investigation which means Chip Kelly is headed to the NFL. For what you ask? Improper recruiting and some improper relationships with people. Chip Kelly will be the head coach for 1 of 2 teams: Philadelphia Eagles or the Chiefs. Chiefs owner Clark Hunt has already had at least 2 discussions with Chip and rep's of Chip.

Working against the Chiefs: Eagles offering more money and Chip's family being rooted in the New Hampshire area.

When you start paying attention to the money trail, it's easy to see Chip's next move is the NFL.

O.city
12-20-2012, 08:30 AM
So Marty or The Bad Guy, who all has Clark been in touch with?

htismaqe
12-20-2012, 10:18 AM
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. How could you possibly forget HANK STRAM? He coached the Saints for 5 years in the 1970s.

I wasn't alive when Hank coached the Chiefs, so he wasn't top of mind. Sorry.

burt
12-20-2012, 10:50 AM
I wasn't alive when Hank coached the Chiefs, so he wasn't top of mind. Sorry.

Young un......

headsnap
12-20-2012, 09:19 PM
I wasn't alive when Hank coached the Chiefs, so he wasn't top of mind. Sorry.

you must have been in diapers when you joined ChiefsPlanet 30 years ago...

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 09:43 AM
teaser :)

http://i.imgur.com/WtHzE.png

MotherfuckerJones
12-22-2012, 10:25 AM
teaser :)

http://i.imgur.com/WtHzE.png

Who are they?

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 10:26 AM
soldiers of fortune

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 02:16 PM
just some sillies

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/182301_493618123994437_635890926_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/45066_493618340661082_742389332_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/31610_493618867327696_2107214347_n.jpg

Mr. Flopnuts
12-22-2012, 03:11 PM
ROFL @ 9 + 7

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 03:56 PM
That Cassel/Quinn pic rustled some true fan feathers on Chiefs Crowd FB. LMAO

CaliforniaChief
12-22-2012, 03:58 PM
ROFL @ 9 + 7

This. LMAO

That was awesome.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-22-2012, 07:09 PM
That Cassel/Quinn pic rustled some true fan feathers on Chiefs Crowd FB. LMAO

Fuck, they are everywhere. Upgraded my cell phone yesterday and the sales dude had just moved here from Springfield. I had on a Chiefs coat, so he started telling me how much he liked Brady Queen and RAC. We walked out with two Galaxy S III for just under $100. That is when I told him that they both suck and I was looking forward to the entire QB, coaching and front office staffs being flushed.

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 07:09 PM
LMAO I'm e-famous

Oh, no doubt he's made enemies among many, many Chiefs fans the past couple of years with his hateful angry campaigns directed at the Chiefs. He's made a name for himself doing so...which I believe is a good part of why he does what he does...self gratification, notoriety. Sorta like Jason Whitlock use to do

Bowser
12-22-2012, 09:04 PM
CLAYTON WHITLOCKNDLER

Count Zarth
12-22-2012, 09:04 PM
whitelock

Bowser
12-22-2012, 09:05 PM
whitelock

Racist?

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 08:21 AM
So what is the final banner going to say today?

Molitoth
12-23-2012, 08:50 AM
Adam Schefter just put out a list of GMs on the hot seat without a mention of pioli. Grrrr.

bowener
12-23-2012, 09:08 AM
Adam Schefter just put out a list of GMs on the hot seat without a mention of pioli. Grrrr.

Maybe it is a foregone conclusion? He didn't want to waste the effort or character limit.

edit:

Oh! Or he forgot the Chiefs exist.

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 09:11 AM
He also didn't report that (1) Pioli was safe or (2) that he signed.

Adam Schefter just put out a list of GMs on the hot seat without a mention of pioli. Grrrr.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-23-2012, 09:22 AM
Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter

The four GMs in most danger of losing jobs are Arizona’s Rod Graves, Cleveland’s Tom Heckert, Jacksonville’s Gene Smith, SD's A.J. Smith.

Molitoth
12-23-2012, 09:24 AM
It's annoying that pioli can keep his stink out of the headlines.

bevischief
12-23-2012, 09:24 AM
What did we pay for? Need pics.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross has emerged as a leading candidate to become the Panthers next general manager, per sources.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

bevischief
12-23-2012, 09:31 AM
So what about the Chiefs?

Dayze
12-23-2012, 10:41 AM
you know when you have the Flu; and your butthole sort of gets loose, and spasms; and you hope not to shit yourself?

yeah....that's how I feel when thinking about the possibility of Pioli being retained/re-signed.

Tribal Warfare
12-23-2012, 10:43 AM
Maybe it is a foregone conclusion?

This

KCrockaholic
12-23-2012, 10:51 AM
you know when you have the Flu; and your butthole sort of gets loose, and spasms; and you hope not to shit yourself?

yeah....that's how I feel when thinking about the possibility of Pioli being retained/re-signed.

No, I don't know. That's something I'd be worried about if I was you.

KCrockaholic
12-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Part of the Adam Schefter problem is that he hates the Chiefs, and will usually avoid talking about them in a positive light, or at all really.

Schefter spent multiple years under Shanarats desk, sucking him off. That's a big part of why Schefter was able to go national after spending a lot of time in Denver.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 11:31 AM
So did SOC fly a banner today?

What did it say...?

loochy
12-23-2012, 12:37 PM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross has emerged as a leading candidate to become the Panthers next general manager, per sources.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

loochy @dontcare

unnecessary drama
12-23-2012, 12:37 PM
LMAO I'm e-famous

where is that from clay?

nice job :clap:

bevischief
12-23-2012, 12:40 PM
@biteme

mnchiefsguy
12-23-2012, 12:52 PM
Whew...Brady comes through with the turnover in the endzone.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 01:30 PM
So did we fly a banner...?

InChiefsHell
12-23-2012, 02:37 PM
Crowd was pretty sparse on TV. Did we fly a banner and what did it say?

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-23-2012, 02:55 PM
So did we fly a banner...?

Crowd was pretty sparse on TV. Did we fly a banner and what did it say?

:crickets:

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 02:57 PM
:crickets:

Yeah, no joke.

Obviously had no impact today...

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-23-2012, 03:05 PM
Maybe I'll fly a kite over the donks game next weekend.

What should it say?

Tribal Warfare
12-23-2012, 03:36 PM
Yeah, no joke.

Obviously had no impact today...

Yep great vague slogan boys

Guru
12-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Yes, the new,new,new banner flew today.

bevischief
12-23-2012, 04:55 PM
pics or gtfo.

Guru
12-23-2012, 05:03 PM
pics or gtfo.

It really was there. I don't know if anyone really noticed it though.

bevischief
12-23-2012, 05:25 PM
It really was there. I don't know if anyone really noticed it though.

So how do the rest of us know this about the snore fest today? I made it point to not watch this game today. Not going personal attack or anything.

Guru
12-23-2012, 05:27 PM
So how do the rest of us know this about the snore fest today? I made it point to not watch this game today. Not going personal attack or anything.

eh. it was a fun game even with the loss. We were in it till the end. I had fun. I drank too much.

good day. Just not perfect.

bevischief
12-23-2012, 05:33 PM
eh. it was a fun game even with the loss. We were in it till the end. I had fun. I drank too much.

good day. Just not perfect.

You drank too much... Glad to see I was there in spirit.

Guru
12-23-2012, 05:43 PM
You drank too much... Glad to see I was there in spirit.

We even have a tree to commemorate the event now. LMAO

pr_capone
12-23-2012, 05:47 PM
Just got home, yes banner flew, there was hardly anyone at the stadium.

Dayze
12-23-2012, 06:56 PM
No, I don't know. That's something I'd be worried about if I was you.
LIAR!

unnecessary drama
12-23-2012, 06:56 PM
The SOC twitter account should be nuked. Sent a ridiculous tweet calling out Tebow for being a crybaby bitch. That has nothing to do with KC and seems like the account is exploiting its followers now...I hate Tebow more than anyone but talk about a lack of professionalism from a movement that preached professionalism

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 07:01 PM
The SOC twitter account should be nuked. Sent a ridiculous tweet calling out Tebow for being a crybaby bitch. That has nothing to do with KC and seems like the account is exploiting its followers now...I hate Tebow more than anyone but talk about a lack of professionalism from a movement that preached professionalism

I saw that.

Pretty classless....focus on the point SOC.

AussieChiefsFan
12-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Not many more likes on facebook.....

Reerun_KC
12-23-2012, 07:06 PM
IF Pioli is fired. All SOC threads, twitter accounts and FB page should be nuked with a flaming aids bucket....

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 07:24 PM
It's highly relevant when people tag us, tweet us and DM us about wanting Tebow in kc. The guy sucks and basically walked out on his team. Getting passed over for McElroy is one thing. Asking to be removed from packages and forcing the team to use someone else is putting yourself over the needs of the team.

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 07:33 PM
It will fade out

IF Pioli is fired. All SOC threads, twitter accounts and FB page should be nuked with a flaming aids bucket....

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 07:34 PM
It's highly relevant when people tag us, tweet us and DM us about wanting Tebow in kc. The guy sucks and basically walked out on his team. Getting passed over for McElroy is one thing. Asking to be removed from packages and forcing the team to use someone else is putting yourself over the needs of the team.

And you respond by calling him a "Cry Baby Bitch"...?

Classy....

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 07:36 PM
Get over it? Mountain out of a mole hill? Bigger stuff to worry about?

;). Relax man

Mr_Tomahawk
12-23-2012, 07:39 PM
It was preached on this forum about how SOC was to handle this movement in a positive and professional manner.

That tweet just came off childish...thought a prepubescent boy hacked the account.

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 07:50 PM
Appreciate the feedback Mr. Tomahawk. If you got offended, I'm sorry.

I'm done worrying about this. We can all move on.

KCChiefsFan88
12-23-2012, 08:31 PM
It's highly relevant when people tag us, tweet us and DM us about wanting Tebow in kc. The guy sucks and basically walked out on his team. Getting passed over for McElroy is one thing. Asking to be removed from packages and forcing the team to use someone else is putting yourself over the needs of the team.

Bravo... 100% agreed.

Perhaps a spinoff movement needs to develop... Save Our Chiefs from Our Dumbshit Fans.

"Let's get Teblow!"

"Let's go with a run first offense like we saw today and just get a game manager QB next season!"

"Let's draft Montee Ball in the first round to build the ultimate rush first offense with Charles!"

BLAH BLAH BLAH. Half of this dumbshit fanbase needs to be nuked.

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Try running the Twittah. Unreal some of the stuff we see

BigRedChief
12-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Try running the Twittah. Unreal some of the stuff we seeBut thats what leadership does, deal with the idiots and trash.

It did come off as junior highish. Remember you represent thousands.

Count Zarth
12-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Who cares? SOC has already won, so we should just attempt to be trolls now. :D

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
12-23-2012, 09:14 PM
BRC, love ya man, but disagree. Now other outlets are running literally the same thing sans "bitch" which I'll apologize for.

BTW, you should have read the stuff we've had posted. I weep for society :(

KCChiefsFan88
12-23-2012, 09:14 PM
Try running the Twittah. Unreal some of the stuff we see

It was great. Well done.

unnecessary drama
12-23-2012, 09:15 PM
I just think it's funny we couldn't pine for Geno on the banners because we wanted to be professional and not demanding yet our official twitter handle is calling Tebow a whiny little bitch.

Right.

Unfollow.

BigRedChief
12-23-2012, 09:15 PM
Who cares? SOC has already won, so we should just attempt to be trolls now. :DSOC has been well run with integrity. Seems to be working. I see no need to change.