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View Full Version : Nat'l Security US Border Patrol Agent Shot, Killed In Arizona


vailpass
10-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Murdered on our territory by foreign hostiles. Re-deploy our military troops to the border now. Federal government says border security is under their authority? Then act.

U.S. Border Patrol agent shot, killed in Arizona near Mexico border

by Cassondra Strande and D.S. Woodfill - Oct. 2, 2012 10:18 AM
The Republic | azcentral.com

One Border Patrol agent was killed and another seriously injured in a shooting early Tuesday near the U.S.-Mexico border, according to authorities.

Three agents were on foot at about 1:30 a.m. about 7 miles east of Bisbee responding to a ground sensor that had triggered, said Carol Capas, a Cochise County Sheriff's Office spokesman.


Capas said the agents reported over the radio that they had come under fire as they were following a trail into the area. Earlier reports from authorities stated erroneously that they were on horseback.

When deputies arrived, one of the agents had died and another suffered serious but non-life threatening injuries, she said.

No suspects were in custody, and Capas she could provide any details on the shooters including how many there were, or what they were doing in the area.

The injured agent sustained non-life-threatening wounds and was flown to a hospital, according to Crystal Amarillas, a spokeswoman for the Tucson Sector Border Patrol.

George McCubbin, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a work union representing border agents called the National Border Patrol Council, said the injured agent had undergone surgery at the University of Arizona Medical Center and is doing well.

Border patrol has not identified the agents involved.

The shooting is being investigated by the FBI and the Cochise County Sheriff's Office. The deceased agent left behind a wife and two children, he said.

U.S. Rep. Ron Barber, who represents the eighth district, released a statement saying "This morning I spoke to Border Patrol leaders for the Tucson Sector to offer my condolences to the men and women of the Border Patrol. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and colleagues of the agent who today made the ultimate sacrifice for his country."

"This is a powerful reminder that our borders are far from secure and that every day the courageous men and women of the Border Patrol put their lives on the line while protecting the citizens of Arizona and the United States," the statement said. "We need to redouble our efforts to secure the border and ensure the safety of Border Patrol agents."

Beth Kempshall, state director of the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, a counter-narcotics entity, said the shootout occurred in "a traditional smuggling corridor for the Sinaloa Cartel."

Marc Denney, a Cochise County Sheriff's commander over the Border Alliance Group Task Force, said the shooting occurred in a known smuggling area. "Basically ambushed," he added. "It's rough terrain. Rocky and very hilly. A lot of low-lying brush."

Denney said law enforcement were swarming the area this morning, looking for suspects. "There's hope that we'll be able to track them," he said. "But there is enough of a gap that they may have had time to go south" across border into Mexico.

All three agents were assigned to the Brian Terry Station, Amarillas said. The station is located in Naco and was named in September in honor of a slain border patrol agent.

Terry, 40, was the last U.S. Border Patrol Agent killed on duty. He was shot in a shootout in December 2010 about 13 miles north of the border at Nogales.

Two guns found at the scene were bought by a member of a ring that was being monitored in the government's gun-smuggling investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that has led Congress' investigation of Fast and Furious, said the shooting is "a tragic reminder of the dangers the brave men and women who guard our borders face every day... Authorities must investigate the full circumstances of this shooting. I urge everyone to think of the families of these agents and avoid drawing conclusions before relevant facts are known."

The tragedy prompted immediate calls for increased enforcement from border security hawks.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the agents' families at this difficult time," said Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz.. "Violence along Arizona's border cannot be tolerated by the federal government any longer. The federal government must commit the necessary resources to secure the border, because that's simply not happening right now."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20120930arizona-us-border-patrol-agent-shot-killed-near-mexico-border-abrk.html#ixzz28AGlrvRx

KILLER_CLOWN
10-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Time to look the other way, just don't shoot the dealers as they cross because they work for the CIA.

fan4ever
10-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Eh, not important...wrong party in power.

Donger
10-02-2012, 01:39 PM
That sucks. Time for Predators.

vailpass
10-02-2012, 01:48 PM
People here are wondering if we will hear any response over this incident from our federal government, the government that prevents us from securing our own borders and tells us they will handle it.

We already know how worthless Napolitano is on this issue, wondering what else they can do to make secure our border.

Brock
10-02-2012, 01:50 PM
Eh, not important...wrong party in power.

Because republicans care about illegal immigration.....in election years, anyway.

vailpass
10-02-2012, 02:03 PM
Because republicans care about illegal immigration.....in election years, anyway.

This isn't about partisan politics, not even entirely about illegal immigration. Our border is overrun with armed drug runners from ultra violent cartels. They aren't looking to stay here, only go back and forth hauling drugs in one direction and cash in the other.

Today there is a newly widowed wife and two children whose daddy will never be coming home again because our borders aren't secure.


Our nation as a whole, regardless of party affiliation, has to care enough about that to fix it.

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 02:10 PM
So, invade Mexico?

vailpass
10-02-2012, 02:14 PM
So, invade Mexico?

No. Round up limp wristed libs that refuse to recognize the urgency of the situation and let Border Patrol use them as human shields.
When can we expect you to arrive?

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
No. Round up limp wristed libs that refuse to recognize the urgency of the situation and let Border Patrol use them as human shields.
When can we expect you to arrive?

Or we could reduce the senseless killing of agents by admitting the War on Drugs has been an utter failure.

fan4ever
10-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Or we could reduce the senseless killing of agents by admitting the War on Drugs has been an utter failure.

...and do what? Legalize all drugs?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-02-2012, 02:34 PM
...and do what? Legalize all drugs?

That would make those that frequent the pharmacies fairly happy.

vailpass
10-02-2012, 02:36 PM
Or we could reduce the senseless killing of agents by admitting the War on Drugs has been an utter failure.

You poor bastard. This is a serious issue that needs addressed by realistic measures. Your Occupy mindset isn't needed or wanted on this one.

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 02:38 PM
...and do what? Legalize all drugs?

You know the cartels make up to 60% of their profits from pot, right?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-02-2012, 02:39 PM
You know the cartels make up to 60% of their profits from pot, right?

This entire situation is circular and both sides have a stake to maintaining the status quo.

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 02:40 PM
You poor bastard. This is a serious issue that needs addressed by realistic measures. Your Occupy mindset isn't needed or wanted on this one.

It's cute you think there's a military solution for all problems.

vailpass
10-02-2012, 02:44 PM
It's cute you think there's a military solution for all problems.

Enlighten me please with examples of effective unarmed border security enforcement that would be effective in securing our southern borders.

LiveSteam
10-02-2012, 02:51 PM
Crickets

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 02:53 PM
Enlighten me please with examples of effective unarmed border security enforcement that would be effective in securing our southern borders.

I never advocated disarming border patrol agents, but keep beating that strawman.

The federal government values human life at around $8-9M. How many troops should we deploy, and at what cost, to ensure no agents die again? $100M/yr? Moreover, there have been only 31 shooting deaths since 1924. It's hardly an epidemic.

Alternatively, you can be an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession.

vailpass
10-02-2012, 02:56 PM
I never advocated disarming border patrol agents, but keep beating that strawman.

The federal government values human life at around $8-9M. How many troops should we deploy, and at what cost, to ensure no agents die again? $100M/yr? Moreover, there have been only 31 shooting deaths since 1924. It's hardly an epidemic.

Alternatively, you can be an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession.


Strawman? Thanks BEP.
The fact you don't recognize the different climate between now and 1924 on our borders shows you are ignorant of the situation.
I think its cute you admit to the need for a military solution for securing our borders?
As to the rest of this disjointed rant: WTF? I'm interested to hear you explain your last sentence.

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 03:17 PM
Strawman? Thanks BEP.
The fact you don't recognize the different climate between now and 1924 on our borders shows you are ignorant of the situation.
I think its cute you admit to the need for a military solution for securing our borders?
As to the rest of this disjointed rant: WTF? I'm interested to hear you explain your last sentence.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/obFHu7DCsEs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

vailpass
10-02-2012, 03:22 PM
That cartoon explains nothing.

Will you please explain what you meant about the dollar value of human lives?

I'm especially curious about the "being an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession".

Coward.

Cave Johnson
10-02-2012, 03:28 PM
That cartoon explains nothing.

Will you please explain what you meant about the dollar value of human lives?

I'm especially curious about the "being an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession".

Coward.

It explains you're a GD moron. ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/business/economy/17regulation.html

LiveSteam
10-02-2012, 03:30 PM
It explains you're a GD moron. ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/business/economy/17regulation.html

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/282156_324053171025756_340674293_n.jpg

vailpass
10-02-2012, 03:35 PM
It explains you're a GD moron. ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/business/economy/17regulation.html

No more winky pictures or cartoons please.
What did you mean by "being an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession".?

qabbaan
10-02-2012, 04:05 PM
People who train on predators and reapers need target practice, right?

Iowanian
10-02-2012, 04:34 PM
Nothing to worry about.....they're just coming here for the jobs you won't do anyway and for a better life.

Move along now

vailpass
10-02-2012, 04:39 PM
Nicholas Ivie, 30, was identified as the agent shot and killed near Naco in Cochise County, according to Victor Brabble, spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

he shooting is being investigated by the FBI and the Cochise County Sheriff's Office.

U.S. Rep. Ron Barber, who represents the eighth district, released a statement saying "This morning I spoke to Border Patrol leaders for the Tucson Sector to offer my condolences to the men and women of the Border Patrol. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and colleagues of the agent who today made the ultimate sacrifice for his country."

"We need to redouble our efforts to secure the border and ensure the safety of Border Patrol agents," the statement said.

Beth Kempshall, state director of the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, a counter-narcotics entity, said the shootout occurred in "a traditional smuggling corridor for the Sinaloa Cartel."

Excluding Tuesday's death, four Border Patrol Agents have died on duty since the start of 2011, according to the U.S. Border Patrol's online Border Patrol Agent Memorial.


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20120930arizona-us-border-patrol-agent-shot-killed-near-mexico-border-abrk.html#ixzz28BTBIH00

RaiderH8r
10-02-2012, 08:11 PM
Or we could reduce the senseless killing of agents by admitting the War on Drugs has been an utter failure.

Or the Obama Justice Department could arm the cartels.

Cave Johnson
10-03-2012, 10:07 AM
No more winky pictures or cartoons please.
What did you mean by "being an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession".?

Drug interdiction, whether by the border patrol, DEA, or cops, is obviously dangerous. Gangs/cartels/etc. are well armed and motivated to keep their businesses running by any means necessary. Persons who choose these professions understand the inherent danger.

RaiderH8r
10-03-2012, 11:04 AM
Drug interdiction, whether by the border patrol, DEA, or cops, is obviously dangerous. Gangs/cartels/etc. are well armed and motivated to keep their businesses running by any means necessary. Persons who choose these professions understand the inherent danger.

But there is also an implicit understanding that their own government won't be arming said dangerous thugs. Once the DOJ breaks that trust all bets are off.

vailpass
10-03-2012, 11:06 AM
Drug interdiction, whether by the border patrol, DEA, or cops, is obviously dangerous. Gangs/cartels/etc. are well armed and motivated to keep their businesses running by any means necessary. Persons who choose these professions understand the inherent danger.

It's a good thing there is an internet between you and a lot of people. I'd give good money to see you tell these people "you can be an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession."

You've crossed the line from whining liberal to flat out punk.

vailpass
10-03-2012, 11:09 AM
But there is also an implicit understanding that their own government won't be arming said dangerous thugs. Once the DOJ breaks that trust all bets are off.

Yep.


...During a news conference, FBI Special Agent in Charge James Turgal and other officials refused to discuss the shooting circumstances or whether guns and other evidence had been recovered. Turgal admonished one reporter for asking if investigators were looking at possible involvement of firearms from Fast and Furious. Officials spoke in somber tones that at times seemed to teeter on anger as they said the death of Ivie strengthened their determination to secure the border. They said they were working with Mexican law enforcement to solve the crime.

Politicians responded to Ivie's death with a flurry of news releases expressing sadness for the family and frustration with border violence.

"Arizonans and Americans will grieve, and they should," said Gov. Jan Brewer. "But this ought not only be a day of tears. There should be anger, too. Righteous anger -- at the kind of evil that causes sorrow this deep, and at the federal failure and political stalemate that has left our border unsecured."

"This is another tragic reminder of the violence along our southern border," said Rep. Ron Barber, D-Ariz., in whose district the shooting occurred. "My deepest prayers are with the family."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121002arizona-border-agent-death-stuns-state.html#ixzz28Fz5Zdhd

listopencil
10-03-2012, 11:20 AM
It's cute you think there's a military solution for all problems.

I'm fairly certain that my cousin, who I was raised with like a brother, who served as a Ranger in the second Gulf War, who now works Border Patrol in Arizona, would appreciate the help. Would you like me to call him up and ask him if he'd like some military assistance? Or perhaps if he'd like it if somebody even gave a shit that he's being shot at?

mikey23545
10-03-2012, 12:52 PM
Sounds like Hussein's core constituency is getting a little trigger happy with those Fast and Furious playthings...

KC native
10-03-2012, 01:21 PM
It's a good thing there is an internet between you and a lot of people. I'd give good money to see you tell these people "you can be an adult about the inherent riskiness of the profession."

You've crossed the line from whining liberal to flat out punk.

You quite possibly the biggest pussy I've ever come across.

When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.

This comment ranks right up there with your fake confrontation with an illegal.

listopencil
10-03-2012, 01:41 PM
When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.



Yeah, but they're not stupid.

qabbaan
10-03-2012, 01:49 PM
It's interesting to hear on this issue liberals saying "they knew the risks", but that argument (that service is voluntary) doesn't hold any traction with them when it comes to any other war.

vailpass
10-03-2012, 02:24 PM
You quite possibly the biggest pussy I've ever come across.

When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.

This comment ranks right up there with your fake confrontation with an illegal.

When I want the opinion of a fat greasy loser I'll ask you.
Your last sentence must have me confused with someone else whose neighborhood you'd never be allowed to enter.

RaiderH8r
10-03-2012, 02:27 PM
You quite possibly the biggest pussy I've ever come across.

When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.

This comment ranks right up there with your fake confrontation with an illegal.

Again, they didn't know they'd be fighting Mexican drug cartels AND the USA's own President, Barry Obama.

vailpass
10-03-2012, 02:27 PM
It's interesting to hear on this issue liberals saying "they knew the risks", but that argument (that service is voluntary) doesn't hold any traction with them when it comes to any other war.

It isn't interesting, it is disgusting. They are willing to minimize the deaths of border agents and ignore our border issues in order to deflect negative repercussions from their chosen political party.

RaiderH8r
10-03-2012, 02:29 PM
You quite possibly the biggest pussy I've ever come across.

When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.

This comment ranks right up there with your fake confrontation with an illegal.

When Mexicans die in the desert from exposure they pretty much deserve it then, right? I mean, they knew the risks going in.

Pawnmower
10-03-2012, 04:09 PM
...and do what? Legalize all drugs?

A start would be to examine the drug classing system and correct OBVIOUS mistakes (like placing marijuana on the same list as crack cocaine)

KC native
10-04-2012, 11:20 AM
When Mexicans die in the desert from exposure they pretty much deserve it then, right? I mean, they knew the risks going in.

Please point out where I said the border patrol agents deserved to die. What is it with right wingers and terrible analogies?

KC native
10-04-2012, 11:21 AM
It's interesting to hear on this issue liberals saying "they knew the risks", but that argument (that service is voluntary) doesn't hold any traction with them when it comes to any other war.

Strawman much?

KC native
10-04-2012, 11:23 AM
When I want the opinion of a fat greasy loser I'll ask you.
Your last sentence must have me confused with someone else whose neighborhood you'd never be allowed to enter.

Are you scared of your own shadow pussy?

vailpass
10-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Are you scared of your own shadow pussy?

Shadow pussy? Do you call it that because no matter how much you chase it you can never catch it?

KC native
10-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Shadow pussy? Do you call it that because no matter how much you chase it you can never catch it?

ROFL creativity

Dallas Chief
10-04-2012, 11:49 AM
Shadow pussy? Do you call it that because no matter how much you chase it you can never catch it?

So money.

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 12:47 PM
Please point out where I said the border patrol agents deserved to die. What is it with right wingers and terrible analogies?

Fair enough, I'll rephrase. Are you as cavalier and indifferent about Mexicans dying during attempted border crossings since they know the risks going in?

KC native
10-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Fair enough, I'll rephrase. Are you as cavalier and indifferent about Mexicans dying during attempted border crossings since they know the risks going in?

Yes. If they're dumb enough to try to make it through the desert routes then they should have known better.

Each type of death is unfortunate but in both cases the people knew what they were getting into.

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Yes. If they're dumb enough to try to make it through the desert routes then they should have known better.

Each type of death is unfortunate but in both cases the people knew what they were getting into.

Do we also get to write off poor people who have made a lifetime of bad decisions that lead them to poverty, hunger and disease?

KC native
10-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Do we also get to write off poor people who have made a lifetime of bad decisions that lead them to poverty, hunger and disease?

Nonsequitor. I'm not writing anyone off.

Saul Good
10-04-2012, 01:40 PM
Yes. If they're dumb enough to try to make it through the desert routes then they should have known better.

Each type of death is unfortunate but in both cases the people knew what they were getting into. So we can adopt a shoot on sight policy towards border jumpers? If someone gets shot, fuck 'em. They knew what they were getting into.

KC native
10-04-2012, 01:42 PM
So we can adopt a shoot on sight policy towards border jumpers? If someone gets shot, fuck 'em. They knew what they were getting into.

Are you really this fucking dumb?

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 01:47 PM
Nonsequitor. I'm not writing anyone off.

If we're playing the "they knew the risks" game then let's play it. People know the risks of doing drugs, skipping school and generally sucking at life.

KC native
10-04-2012, 02:03 PM
If we're playing the "they knew the risks" game then let's play it. People know the risks of doing drugs, skipping school and generally sucking at life.

It's not a game. Certain activities are inherently riskier than others.

Also, it's quite apparent that you lack an understanding of the poor in this country and how the vast majority of them are born into being poor.

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 02:06 PM
It's not a game. Certain activities are inherently riskier than others.

Also, it's quite apparent that you lack an understanding of the poor in this country and how the vast majority of them are born into being poor.

Can you just go ahead and list the various activities in which people are responsible for their behavior vs. those for which people are not? Just make it easy on all of us.

RedNeckRaider
10-04-2012, 02:11 PM
If we're playing the "they knew the risks" game then let's play it. People know the risks of doing drugs, skipping school and generally sucking at life.

No shit, I grew up poor ran with criminals, did drugs, sold drugs. Looked up to idiots who had nice cars, stereos and guns. I got married straightened up worked hard and made a decent life for myself. I am sick and tired of the born poor excuse. Do something about it~

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 02:20 PM
No shit, I grew up poor ran with criminals, did drugs, sold drugs. Looked up to idiots who had nice cars, stereos and guns. I got married straightened up worked hard and made a decent life for myself. I am sick and tired of the born poor excuse. Do something about it~

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bQu2SVFF-cU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

KC native
10-04-2012, 05:25 PM
Can you just go ahead and list the various activities in which people are responsible for their behavior vs. those for which people are not? Just make it easy on all of us.

Another nonsequitor. Lrn2argue

KC native
10-04-2012, 05:27 PM
No shit, I grew up poor ran with criminals, did drugs, sold drugs. Looked up to idiots who had nice cars, stereos and guns. I got married straightened up worked hard and made a decent life for myself. I am sick and tired of the born poor excuse. Do something about it~

Bootstraps. Lol

RedNeckRaider
10-04-2012, 06:13 PM
Bootstraps. Lol

Suck my dick you fake mother****er. You pose like something you are not. You would not last a day where I grew up. You play tough guy and play smart guy, you are neither~

KC native
10-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Suck my dick you fake mother****er. You pose like something you are not. You would not last a day where I grew up. You play tough guy and play smart guy, you are neither~

ROFL ok internet tough guy. Tell yourself whatever it takes for you to go to sleep at night.

RedNeckRaider
10-04-2012, 06:42 PM
ROFL ok internet tough guy. Tell yourself whatever it takes for you to go to sleep at night.

Type away...you and I know the truth. That is good enough for me ~

KC native
10-04-2012, 06:50 PM
Type away...you and I know the truth. That is good enough for me ~

ROFL your truth is nonsense but whatever you gotta tell yourself. I don't have to convince anyone. You, OTOH, feel a compulsion to stress how bad ass you are. Tell me again how hardcore you are grandpa.

RedNeckRaider
10-04-2012, 06:56 PM
ROFL your truth is nonsense but whatever you gotta tell yourself. I don't have to convince anyone. You, OTOH, feel a compulsion to stress how bad ass you are. Tell me again how hardcore you are grandpa.

You are a clown, we both know it. Type away as this is the only world you could face me in...at 52 no less LMAO

LOCOChief
10-04-2012, 07:16 PM
You are a clown, we both know it. Type away as this is the only world you could face me in...at 52 no less LMAO

I'm pretty sure kcnative has been bullied and picked on throughout her adolescents to the extent that she is now sadly damaged goods.

KC native
10-04-2012, 07:22 PM
You are a clown, we both know it. Type away as this is the only world you could face me in...at 52 no less LMAO

Like I said, tell yourself whatever you need to sleep easier at night. bootstraps lol

KC native
10-04-2012, 07:22 PM
I'm pretty sure kcnative has been bullied and picked on throughout her adolescents to the extent that she is now sadly damaged goods.

I'm pretty sure you are fucking retarded and don't know how to use the English language properly. LMAO

LOCOChief
10-04-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm pretty sure you are ****ing retarded and don't know how to use the English language properly. LMAO

that all you got nacho libre?

RaiderH8r
10-04-2012, 07:51 PM
Another nonsequitor. Lrn2argue

You put forth the premise that we need not concern ourselves with the well being of people who engage in dangerous behavior because, as you said, " they knew the risks" going in. I would like you to enumerate which of those activities fall under the premise of your thesis. Stop sucking.

petegz28
10-04-2012, 08:02 PM
So if we just start capping people who are sneaking over the border can we just chalk it up to, "well, they knew the risks when they tried to sneak in our country" ?

LiveSteam
10-04-2012, 08:03 PM
So if we just start capping people who are sneaking over the border can we just chalk it up to, "well, they knew the risks when they tried to sneak in our country" ?

That sounds like a Ok plan to me

HonestChieffan
10-04-2012, 09:36 PM
So if we just start capping people who are sneaking over the border can we just chalk it up to, "well, they knew the risks when they tried to sneak in our country" ?

Just more vermin. SSS

Like coyotes, armadillos, possums

KC native
10-04-2012, 09:52 PM
You put forth the premise that we need not concern ourselves with the well being of people who engage in dangerous behavior because, as you said, " they knew the risks" going in. I would like you to enumerate which of those activities fall under the premise of your thesis. Stop sucking.

No I did not. Please point out where I said that.

KC native
10-04-2012, 09:53 PM
So if we just start capping people who are sneaking over the border can we just chalk it up to, "well, they knew the risks when they tried to sneak in our country" ?

Nonsequitor

qabbaan
10-05-2012, 09:42 AM
It isn't interesting, it is disgusting. They are willing to minimize the deaths of border agents and ignore our border issues in order to deflect negative repercussions from their chosen political party.

Come on, I think we can all take solace in the fact that Eric Holder and his pedostache managed to maintain a thin veneer of plausible deniability.

qabbaan
10-05-2012, 09:42 AM
So if we just start capping people who are sneaking over the border can we just chalk it up to, "well, they knew the risks when they tried to sneak in our country" ?

That's silly.

We have drones now.

RaiderH8r
10-05-2012, 10:16 AM
No I did not. Please point out where I said that.

You quite possibly the biggest pussy I've ever come across.

When they sign up for the job they know the risks. Hell some of them sign up because of the risks.

This comment ranks right up there with your fake confrontation with an illegal.

Yes. If they're dumb enough to try to make it through the desert routes then they should have known better.

Each type of death is unfortunate but in both cases the people knew what they were getting into.

Memory loss is one of the first side effects of drug use man.

KC native
10-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Memory loss is one of the first side effects of drug use man.

So how you get the premise that I said we shouldn't concern ourselves with people who are involved in risky activities/jobs out of pointing out that many of them know the risks associated with the job when they sign up for it and some of them sign up because of the risks?

That's a helluva leap.

RaiderH8r
10-05-2012, 11:34 AM
No I did not. Please point out where I said that.

So how you get the premise that I said we shouldn't concern ourselves with people who are involved in risky activities/jobs out of pointing out that many of them know the risks associated with the job when they sign up for it and some of them sign up because of the risks?

That's a helluva leap.

I guess I mistook your glib attitude for indifference. Clearly you're deeply concerned with our border patrol agents being killed by cartels armed by our own government. That's my bad.

KC native
10-05-2012, 11:43 AM
I guess I mistook your glib attitude for indifference. Clearly you're deeply concerned with our border patrol agents being killed by cartels armed by our own government. That's my bad.

The cartels only exist because of the drug war. End it and a lot less Border patrol agents will be shot/shot at.

WoodDraw
10-05-2012, 02:40 PM
"Border Patrol agent’s death was likely a result of friendly fire, investigators say"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/border-patrol-agents-death-was-likely-a-result-of-friendly-fire-investigators-say/2012/10/05/d103c350-0f1a-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html?hpid=z2

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 03:45 PM
I guess I mistook your glib attitude for indifference. Clearly you're deeply concerned with our border patrol agents being killed by cartels armed by our own government. That's my bad.

Our third world neighbors to the south are long over due for some behavior modification. We need to encourage them to stay out of our country and not **** with the horn. It has been too long since they met the bull~

KC native
10-05-2012, 03:50 PM
Our third world neighbors to the south are long over due for some behavior modification. We need to encourage them to stay out of our country and not **** with the horn. It has been too long since they met the bull~

Rawr internet tough guy grandpa is on the loose. ROFL

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 03:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and fuck their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 04:04 PM
Rawr internet tough guy grandpa is on the loose. ROFL

Glad to make you chuckle internet clown~

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and **** their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.

Damn good question~

qabbaan
10-05-2012, 04:09 PM
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and **** their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.

Because of the electorate's changing demographics, we aren't allowed to say that anything coming from Mexico is problematic or do anything about the wide open border.

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Because of the electorate's changing demographics, we aren't allowed to say that anything coming from Mexico is problematic or do anything about the wide open border.

Nails on...both parties are nothing less than cowards on this issue~

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and **** their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.

The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 04:19 PM
The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.
We have the ability to handle this problem is we approached it with the same zeal as we do terrorism. If we made military strikes against these cartels they would run for cover and not even think about starting shit on American soil. They would still produce and sell drugs but their would be no violence on our turf. That is if we treated it like a "war"

qabbaan
10-05-2012, 04:33 PM
Nails on...both parties are nothing less than cowards on this issue~

The southern border is one of the primary factors turning this country into a socialist welfare state. That immediately rules out 50% of the pols wanting to do anything about it. The rest are increasingly outvoted year after year, as the historical America fades

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 04:41 PM
We have the ability to handle this problem is we approached it with the same zeal as we do terrorism. If we made military strikes against these cartels they would run for cover and not even think about starting shit on American soil. They would still produce and sell drugs but their would be no violence on our turf. That is if we treated it like a "war"

Good luck with that. We did covert operations with US soldiers in Colombia during the 80's and 90's. We are still there in many ways and cocaine is more potent, more prevalent and cheaper than it was then. The majority of coca production just moved. Until you can cover every square inch of the globe militarily, you're just swatting at flies.

Again, history proves that.

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 04:45 PM
Because of the electorate's changing demographics, we aren't allowed to say that anything coming from Mexico is problematic or do anything about the wide open border.

Bullshit.

The Mexicans here, nor the Mexicans there, have any sympathy for the cartels. The Cartels have Mexicans running scared. They're murdering Mexicans here in the states and those across the border. The majority of Mexicans aren't going to stand in the way of eradicating the Cartels. They're not going to stand in the way of the U.S stepping up and doing something about it.

Hell, if we could somehow create security over there, you gotta wonder if that would help our own illegal immigration problem.

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 04:49 PM
The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.

I agree that prohibition doesn't work, but our military can put a pretty damn severe dent in the cartels if they actually put forth the effort. We may never stop the bleeding, but we can certainly slow it down and get it under moderate control.

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 04:51 PM
So are we going to invade the UK because most of the high grade marijuana seeds are shipped from that country into our own? Are we going to invade the Netherlands since 90% of the worlds ecstasy is produced there?

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 04:53 PM
So are we going to invade the UK because most of the high grade marijuana seeds are shipped from that country into our own? Are we going to invade the Netherlands since 90% of the worlds ecstasy is produced there?

Do either of those countries have violence spilling over into the states?

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 04:55 PM
I agree that prohibition doesn't work, but our military can put a pretty damn severe dent in the cartels if they actually put forth the effort. We may never stop the bleeding, but we can certainly slow it down and get it under moderate control.

You not even slowing it down. You're actually slowing yourself down. Before you know, manufacturing has changed locations, shipments have changed logistically. And you don't know where it is coming from again. The desire is still there, it always will be. It's an unwinnable war that we have been fighting our entire lives. Think about that for a minute. The drug war has been going on our entire lives and we haven't made any gains with the choosen course. Why continue?

Most Law Enforcement even admit that they are usually behind the game in every aspect.

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Do either of those countries have violence spilling over into the states?

Are you saying people don't kill people for high grade marijuana? No ecstasy deaths from violence?

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 05:03 PM
You not even slowing it down. You're actually slowing yourself down. Before you know, manufacturing has changed locations, shipments have changed logistically. And you don't know where it is coming from again. The desire is still there, it always will be. It's an unwinnable war that we have been fighting our entire lives. Think about that for a minute. The drug war has been going on our entire lives and we haven't made any gains with the choosen course. Why continue?

Most Law Enforcement even admit that they are usually behind the game in every aspect.

I agree. It needs to be a two-pronged approach.

But the states were able to significantly reduce the amount of cocaine flowing in from Columbia during the 70's.....when they tried. They could also deal a significant blow to the Mexican Marijuana trade by eliminating MJ prohibition and controlling it themselves, as well putting immense military pressure on the Cartels.

It has to start somewhere. Right now, it seems like all we do is try to stop it at the border. That's never going to work. We're being reactionary when we need to be far more proactive.

It's seeped and infected our borders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.

How much longer are the Feds going to sit there with their thumbs up their ass?

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 05:05 PM
Are you saying people don't kill people for high grade marijuana? No ecstasy deaths from violence?



It's seeped and infected our borders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.


.

RubberSponge
10-05-2012, 05:15 PM
I agree. It needs to be a two-pronged approach.

But the states were able to significantly reduce the amount of cocaine flowing in from Columbia during the 70's.....when they tried. They could also deal a significant blow to the Mexican Marijuana trade by eliminating MJ prohibition and controlling it themselves, as well putting immense military pressure on the Cartels.

It has to start somewhere. Right now, it seems like all we do is try to stop it at the border. That's never going to work. We're being reactionary when we need to be far more proactive.

It's seeped and infected our boarders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.

How much longer are the Feds going to sit there with their thumbs up their ass?

The amount of cocaine in the 70's was nothing compared to what is out there now.

We fight drugs not just on our border. We fight them in other countries, we fight them in our own streets, schools, in every community out there. Simply saying we fight them at the border is a injustice to every law enforcement officer that is out there doing exactly what you say he/she isn't.

Of course there are gangs in this country affiliated with mexican drug cartels. No surprise. Mexican cartels have infiltrated every city in the US.

Detoxing
10-05-2012, 05:22 PM
We fight drugs not just on our border. We fight them in other countries, we fight them in our own streets, schools, in every community out there. Simply saying we fight them at the border is a injustice to every law enforcement officer that is out there doing exactly what you say he/she isn't.


And it's all reactionary. It's an attempt to fight the infection instead of killing the pig and not letting the infection spread to begin with.

Of course there are gangs in this country affiliated with mexican drug cartels. No surprise. Mexican cartels have infiltrated every city in the US.

uhmmmm....yeah, that was kinda my original point. So why are they not treated as Terrorists and why do we not pursue them the way we do in the ME?

You can sit there and say, "Oh Military force will never work"...well.....what we're doing now sure as hell isn't working either.

We're so hung up on trying to fix the ME....the country we should be trying to fix is Mexico.

And Mexico actually WANTS to be fixed.

RedNeckRaider
10-05-2012, 05:48 PM
Good luck with that. We did covert operations with US soldiers in Colombia during the 80's and 90's. We are still there in many ways and cocaine is more potent, more prevalent and cheaper than it was then. The majority of coca production just moved. Until you can cover every square inch of the globe militarily, you're just swatting at flies.

Again, history proves that.

Bullshit, you are right we are only swatting flies. If we target people of interest inside the boarder and land serious strikes you are kidding yourself if you think that does not change the game~

KC native
10-05-2012, 06:22 PM
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and fuck their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.

It's against Mexican law. They take the no foreign military thing pretty serious.

KC native
10-05-2012, 06:35 PM
.

Cartels aren't in the high grade weed game. That's a Cali, Colorado, and increasingly every where else thing. Cartels bring the mexi brick and hard drugs. Most of their profit comes from meth.

High grade weed is produced domestically.

Pawnmower
10-05-2012, 10:18 PM
Friendly Fire Looks like it could be......

RubberSponge
10-06-2012, 03:25 AM
Bullshit, you are right we are only swatting flies. If we target people of interest inside the boarder and land serious strikes you are kidding yourself if you think that does not change the game~

You post is so full of unrealistic expectations that it's almost impossible to respond without shaking my head and thinking you only have a news channel view of the drug cartels.

Killing people does not change anything. And once again, history proves that.

RubberSponge
10-06-2012, 03:40 AM
And it's all reactionary. It's an attempt to fight the infection instead of killing the pig and not letting the infection spread to begin with.



uhmmmm....yeah, that was kinda my original point. So why are they not treated as Terrorists and why do we not pursue them the way we do in the ME?

You can sit there and say, "Oh Military force will never work"...well.....what we're doing now sure as hell isn't working either.

We're so hung up on trying to fix the ME....the country we should be trying to fix is Mexico.

And Mexico actually WANTS to be fixed.

It's not an infection, it's evolution. People have a natural desire for intoxicants. That is never going away.

Why are they not treated as terrorists? Are you willing to jail every drug abuser as if they give material support and are a terrorist sympathizer to terrorist organizations? No of course not because that is silly. Same way with labeling drug dealers terrorists, it's silly. Drug dealers are nothing more than businessmen that cannot survive in a legitimate market.

Uh, military force is what we are using now. It's not working. But somehow you think ramping it up a few notches is somehow going to stop or slow down the flow of drugs. It will not. The profit is too great for them to stop. Hundreds of billions a year is made off drugs worldwide and a few more bombs isn't going to make a dent in any of it.

FAX
10-06-2012, 04:06 AM
Just notice this thread ... I guess killing border agents is a job that Americans just won't do.

Man this pisses me off. Can somebody please explain to me why our borders are still completely wide open? Anybody?

I suppose it isn't politically correct to get angry over having some freaking foreign bastard cross the border and murder one of our citizens for fun and profit, but there comes a time when enough is enough.

Find some balls. Close the freaking border. Period. Legalize pot. Re-schedule everything else. Wipe out the gangs. If somebody is wearing gang colors, lock them up. Deport every freaking asswipe who can't produce papers.

Problem not solved, but damn sure alleviated.

FAX

KChiefer
10-06-2012, 04:34 AM
"Border Patrol agentís death was likely a result of friendly fire, investigators say"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/border-patrol-agents-death-was-likely-a-result-of-friendly-fire-investigators-say/2012/10/05/d103c350-0f1a-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html?hpid=z2

WTF! :LOL:

RubberSponge
10-06-2012, 04:45 AM
Just notice this thread ... I guess killing border agents is a job that Americans just won't do.

Man this pisses me off. Can somebody please explain to me why our borders are still completely wide open? Anybody?

I suppose it isn't politically correct to get angry over having some freaking foreign bastard cross the border and murder one of our citizens for fun and profit, but there comes a time when enough is enough.

Find some balls. Close the freaking border. Period. Legalize pot. Re-schedule everything else. Wipe out the gangs. If somebody is wearing gang colors, lock them up. Deport every freaking asswipe who can't produce papers.

Problem not solved, but damn sure alleviated.

FAX

Looks to be friendly fire...

Cost vs. benefit. Period. To completely close the southern and northern border which is roughly 8500 miles long is simply not feasible. Why do people have to go off the deep end with this stuff? Bombing, deportation. Just move the profit center. Put the profit into your hands and not the criminals. Legalize everything. Let Darwin and personal responsibilty reign supreme.

As far as gang colors go, better not wear your Chiefs jersey in the world you're advocating. Chiefs colors are notorious gang colors. What do you think that KC on a ballcap could possibly stand for?