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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Application for ND oil refinery approved, would be first built in US in 30 years


bevischief
10-10-2012, 02:36 PM
Application for ND oil refinery approved, would be first built in US in 30 years
NEW TOWN, N.D. - An oil refinery, the first to be built in the United States in more than 30 years, is planned for the Fort Berthold Reservation.

By: Forum Communications, INFORUM


NEW TOWN, N.D. - An oil refinery, the first to be built in the United States in more than 30 years, is planned for the Fort Berthold Reservation.

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today announced approval of an application from the Three Affiliated Tribes of the Fort Berthold Reservation for the refinery.

Project developers of the MHA Nation Clean Fuels Refinery estimate it could create 800 to 1,000 construction jobs, up to 140 operations jobs, and millions in annual revenue to benefit the Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara tribes and surrounding communities, according to the announcement.

The 13,000 barrel-per-day facility would refine Bakken crude oil into products including diesel fuel and propane.

The tribes requested that the Bureau of Indian Affairs accept a 469-acre piece of property into trust, with a proposed refinery on about 190 acres and the remaining acreage to be used for the production of feed for buffalo.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/376913/

Calcountry
10-10-2012, 03:00 PM
Gee, I wonder if they built another one of those in California, we could handle some downtime at the other 2 that are offline right now?

Guess I better clue them solar panels to my car.

Amnorix
10-10-2012, 03:13 PM
Wonder if the fact that it's on what I assume is an Indian reservation, which makes it exempt from a bunch of laws as I understand it, is a significant factor? Probably so, and a sad statement on American over-regulation in the space if so.

Environmental regulations are good, but so is processing raw materials into usable products.

Saul Good
10-10-2012, 03:15 PM
Wonder if the fact that it's on what I assume is an Indian reservation, which makes it exempt from a bunch of laws as I understand it, is a significant factor? Probably so, and a sad statement on American over-regulation in the space if so.

Environmental regulations are good, but so is processing raw materials into usable products.

/reaches across the aisle to shake your hand

Calcountry
10-10-2012, 03:21 PM
Wonder if the fact that it's on what I assume is an Indian reservation, which makes it exempt from a bunch of laws as I understand it, is a significant factor? Probably so, and a sad statement on American over-regulation in the space if so.

Environmental regulations are good, but so is processing raw materials into usable products.We have more oil in California than Texas.

Oh damn, we can't do anything about it. We still have a shitload of gold, which would help a few folks get back to work, but damn, we can't do anything about it.

We have a rare earth mine in the desert too, but, once again.... Environazis can't have their pristine anything sullied.

qabbaan
10-10-2012, 03:35 PM
Would have been nice to have some sort of pipeline bringing Canada's oil to us too, wouldn't it?

Calcountry
10-10-2012, 05:27 PM
Would have been nice to have some sort of pipeline bringing Canada's oil to us too, wouldn't it?"Can't wait to become Brazil's best customer" with their off shore oil drilling that Obama supports.

Bring us down, Bring other countries up. Economic justice of an international sort.

Sorry Democrats, you belong to a rich country, and even though you are in the 99%, you are still too damn rich.

stonedstooge
10-10-2012, 05:32 PM
Native Americans to try and satisfy another of our addictions.

Donger
10-10-2012, 05:36 PM
Cool. May I suggest a brand name of "Firewater"?

stonedstooge
10-10-2012, 05:36 PM
Cool. May I suggest a brand name of "Firewater"?

LMAO. Look who's getting the last laugh

mlyonsd
10-10-2012, 06:00 PM
13k barrels a day isn't really all that much.

Here in SD a Texas company tried for several years to get approval for a 435k barrel a day refinery built just a few miles from me.

The Sierra Club has been fighting them the entire way. The company just gave up the options to the land they had acquired so I don't think it is going to fly.

The environmentalist wackos of this country need a smack down.

RedNeckRaider
10-10-2012, 06:03 PM
13k barrels a day isn't really all that much.

Here in SD a Texas company tried for several years to get approval for a 435k barrel a day refinery built just a few miles from me.

The Sierra Club has been fighting them the entire way. The company just gave up the options to the land they had acquired so I don't think it is going to fly.

The environmentalist wackos of this country need a smack down.

A long overdue smack down~

Calcountry
10-10-2012, 06:05 PM
A long overdue smack down~When California implodes, as is almost a mathematical certainty, maybe then.

RedNeckRaider
10-10-2012, 06:08 PM
When California implodes, as is almost a mathematical certainty, maybe then.

As a long time fan of a team out there...I would hope for them to relocate right before it happens ;)

banyon
10-10-2012, 06:35 PM
Refineries haven't been applying to build new plants because they like the supply right where it is.

KC native
10-10-2012, 06:45 PM
Refineries haven't been applying to build new plants because they like the supply right where it is.

Don't forget to mention them idling and shutting down refineries that existed because they like suplly where it is either.

mlyonsd
10-10-2012, 06:53 PM
Refineries haven't been applying to build new plants because they like the supply right where it is.
I don't think that's true.

Donger
10-10-2012, 07:20 PM
Refineries haven't been applying to build new plants because they like the supply right where it is.

No, it's just easier and most cost-effective to expand existing refineries. Also no enviro-weenie BS to deal with.

Bwana
10-10-2012, 07:37 PM
13k barrels a day isn't really all that much.

Here in SD a Texas company tried for several years to get approval for a 435k barrel a day refinery built just a few miles from me.

The Sierra Club has been fighting them the entire way. The company just gave up the options to the land they had acquired so I don't think it is going to fly.

The environmentalist wackos of this country need a smack down.

No, it's no Exxonmobil-Baytown, but it's great to see. As far ar the tree huggers, I agree with that as well, those little stinky fuckers are out of control. They are in an all out war with coal fired power plants as well.

LiveSteam
10-10-2012, 09:23 PM
No, it's no Exxonmobil-Baytown, but it's great to see. As far ar the tree huggers, I agree with that as well, those little stinky fuckers are out of control. They are in an all out war with coal fired power plants as well.

Give me steam or give me death
True story

banyon
10-12-2012, 07:04 AM
I don't think that's true.


No, it's just easier and most cost-effective to expand existing refineries. Also no enviro-weenie BS to deal with.

See mlyons? Even Donger, who is very knowledgable usually about petroleum issues is aware of this fact.

They haven't been applying for some times. Usually the industry response is "the application process is just too difficult", citing environmental standards, and the environmentalists typically say "how would they know if they never try? It's to control prices".

Kind of a mexican standoff, but the ND news should be good for everyone. Of course they have plenty up there to refine with the horizontal fracking efforts.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 07:45 AM
As a long time fan of a team out there...I would hope for them to relocate right before it happens ;)

They'd just relocate to Los Angeles.

ChiefaRoo
10-12-2012, 11:18 AM
Wonder if the fact that it's on what I assume is an Indian reservation, which makes it exempt from a bunch of laws as I understand it, is a significant factor? Probably so, and a sad statement on American over-regulation in the space if so.

Environmental regulations are good, but so is processing raw materials into usable products.

I couldn't agree with you more chowda'

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gnY0RznyRQM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
10-12-2012, 11:21 AM
See mlyons? Even Donger, who is very knowledgable usually about petroleum issues is aware of this fact.

They haven't been applying for some times. Usually the industry response is "the application process is just too difficult", citing environmental standards, and the environmentalists typically say "how would they know if they never try? It's to control prices".

Kind of a mexican standoff, but the ND news should be good for everyone. Of course they have plenty up there to refine with the horizontal fracking efforts.

I think you are not understanding my point. The energy companies would probably like to build new refineries, but they have chosen not to do so because of the environmental restrictions and general red tape that is involved in doing so. It's not worth it in both time and money, so they have just expanded existing refineries as a result.

mlyonsd
10-12-2012, 02:23 PM
See mlyons? Even Donger, who is very knowledgable usually about petroleum issues is aware of this fact.

They haven't been applying for some times. Usually the industry response is "the application process is just too difficult", citing environmental standards, and the environmentalists typically say "how would they know if they never try? It's to control prices".

Kind of a mexican standoff, but the ND news should be good for everyone. Of course they have plenty up there to refine with the horizontal fracking efforts.
It isn't a Mexican standoff. It is being tried in my backyard with little success.

Google Hyperion and South Dakota.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 04:14 AM
It's shockingly stupid to me that it's been this long since one was built last.

Comrade Crapski
10-13-2012, 07:24 AM
Refineries haven't been applying to build new plants because they like the supply right where it is.

Yet another absurd moonbat narrative.

Let me break it down into simple terms---

Let's say it costs the oil co. $60 dollars to purchase a barrel of crude, and it costs them $20 dollars to refine it, and $20 dollars to distribute and market it. They need to turn around and sell that product to make a profit, cover overhead, pay employees etc. What is the marginal cost of refining, distributing and marketing 100 barrels of oil? 200 barrels (doubling output) ?Does it increase profit (revenue - costs) or decrease profit?

An example of marginal cost:

If total cost of producing 10 widgets is $5 dollars, and the cost of producing 20 is $7 dollars, then the marginal cost of increasing output is $2 dollars. The price is basically determined by supply and demand, but there are other factors such as elesticity, inelasticity, the law of diminishing marginal utility etc.

Let's say the price is set at $2 a widget, and I can sell 10 widgets, I make $15. If I sell 20 widgets, I make $33 dollars. In this example, I've doubled output and increased profit (revenue-costs).

The price of a gallon of gasoline does not increase or decrease based on the refineries costs. It increases or decreases based on the variable cost of the barrel of crude. The oil company simply passes those costs onto the consumer--- who's demand incidentally is not inverse to supply. The law of diminishing returns doesn't change much when it comes to gasoline usage.

So there you have it: price is determined by what a barrel of crude costs the company, and it is not affected by the marginal costs of refining it.

Oh, it's also increased by taxation.

In 1950 the tax on a gallon o' gas was 1.5% of the price. In 2011, it's 20% of the price.

This is all common stuff you learn in the first semester of college if you major in economics.

It's pretty amusing this ass says he has a B.A. in economics:

Don't forget to mention them idling and shutting down refineries that existed because they like suplly where it is either.