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View Full Version : Elections Who Won the Vice President Debate??


Trivers
10-11-2012, 07:57 PM
What say yea?

ClevelandBronco
10-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Al North.

LiveSteam
10-11-2012, 08:00 PM
Al North.

LMAO It was over before it started

qabbaan
10-11-2012, 08:14 PM
Biden is pissed off at you. You should have sent AFGHAAAAANNNSSS TO DO THE POLL! AFGHAAAAANNNSS TO DO THE POLL!

Chocolate Hog
10-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Al North.

ROFL

qabbaan
10-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Now I'm typing this in my creepy quiet voice.

AustinChief
10-11-2012, 08:35 PM
I voted Biden because I don't believe in ties. He didn't really "win" but he slowed Romney's momentum which is a win.

ClevelandBronco
10-11-2012, 08:36 PM
I didn't watch. I listened on the radio. I can't speak to appearance or body language. I'd call it a draw out of the gate, Biden ahead a bit in the middle rounds, Ryan closed strong.


Obama needed Joe to kill the guy. Didn't happen.

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 08:36 PM
I voted Biden because I don't believe in ties. He didn't really "win" but he slowed Romney's momentum which is a win.

He did what he was supposed to do, which in my book is a victory.

qabbaan
10-11-2012, 08:37 PM
In all seriousness, Biden's major league asshole "old Washington tone", condescending demeanor won't endear himself to moderates and undecideds who don't like harsh rhetoric or want to elect people who they dont like personally.

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 08:38 PM
In all seriousness, Biden's major league asshole "old Washington tone", condescending demeanor won't endear himself to moderates and undecideds who don't like harsh rhetoric or want to elect people who they dont like personally.

Cheer up slappy. Can't win them all.

mnchiefsguy
10-11-2012, 08:38 PM
I called it a tie. Ryan finished strong, and I think voters will like his wonkish dork like mastery of facts and statistics. Don't know why, just a gut feeling, I could be completely wrong.

qabbaan
10-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Cheer up slappy. Can't win them all.

I'm happy. Biden might have acted in a way that the left wing base likes, but he didn't do anything that will get him traction with moderates. Ryan did fine and looked especially strong at the finish.

stonedstooge
10-11-2012, 08:41 PM
Probably a tie on content, but Uncle Joe's demeanor pushes it the other way

-King-
10-11-2012, 08:42 PM
Biden won. He didn't let Ryan answer any question fully so Ryan couldn't really get a good message out. Good strategy and it worked.

Direckshun
10-11-2012, 08:51 PM
I think Biden did about the best he possibly could. His strategy, after Obama let basically everything go a week ago, was to let nothing go. He was aggressive, interrupt-y, dickish, and sucked up all the oxygen in the room.

Ryan didn't sound like Ryan. He sounded small, like a high school student reciting lines rather than a top-notch wonk delivering information he knows backwards. What a strange performance by an up-and-comer.

He was stymied probably twice in pretty critical fashion, once when he failed yet again to provide anything in the way of specifics of the Romney/Ryan tax plan, and again on Afghanistan, when I thought he actually had a point.

The moderator really won, though. Her questions were very, very good and often very tough. I hated the last question but the rest are fine by me.

This wasn't the homerun Romney's was last week, but it was a very flashy double.

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Biden was disgraceful in his Libya segment.

Iowanian
10-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Biden is pissed off at you. You should have sent AFGHAAAAANNNSSS TO DO THE POLL! AFGHAAAAANNNSS TO DO THE POLL!



WHATS JOE BIDEN GOING TO KILL THEM WITH? SPIT BAOWS!!!
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuJCitHW2Kr4ZXUHFoDczJKnR3_MjiFEv_NaaP2RFYF2csx-lG2Q

AustinChief
10-11-2012, 08:53 PM
This wasn't the homerun Romney's was last week, but it was a very flashy double.

Not a chance, this was a sacrifice fly by Obama/Biden. Sure they scored a single run but they also got an out. It worked but it certainly isn't as good as a solid double to bring the runner across.

ReynardMuldrake
10-11-2012, 08:55 PM
Points to Ryan on Libya, points to Biden on taxes and social security. Biden won tonight, but didn't dominate.

tk13
10-11-2012, 08:56 PM
America. Because both candidates actually showed up.

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 08:58 PM
It's hard for me to imagine an undecided watching this and becoming convinced that they deserve four more years. I can, however, imagine someone who had never been exposed to Ryan coming away thinking that he's at least up to the job.

Iowanian
10-11-2012, 09:03 PM
Anyone who decides their vote for president based off of this debate licks the nose pickles off of the windows of a fast food joint.

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 09:04 PM
I voted "who cares".

qabbaan
10-11-2012, 09:06 PM
It's hard for me to imagine an undecided watching this and becoming convinced that they deserve four more years.

I agree, even if you take out the dickheadedness.

The obama campaign is trying to run out the clock and talk about their record as little as possible. Biden successfully executed their new strategy which was to become as angry and aggressive as possible. This strategy, however, is not the posture of a winning campaign or one that feels it has the better of the issues in the eyes of the public.

Dylan
10-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Paul Ryan!

It’s terrifying that Biden is a heartbeat from the presidency.

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Anyone who decides their vote for president based off of this debate licks the nose pickles off of the windows of a fast food joint.

LMAO nose pickles

Frazod
10-11-2012, 09:07 PM
I'd say Biden lost the debate by being a douche more than Ryan actually won it.

Iowanian
10-11-2012, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't want Joe Biden to run the night crawler stand I had with my cousins when i was 12.

How that buffoon has lasted so long in politics I'll never know.

CaliforniaChief
10-11-2012, 09:10 PM
I'd say Biden lost the debate by being a douche more than Ryan actually won it.

Exactly. Who was the adult on the stage?

CoMoChief
10-11-2012, 09:11 PM
Biden went on the offensive....but he's also full of shit on just about everything.

Ryan's a neo-con but he made more sense when pertaining to the economy.

They're both (along w/ Romney and Obama) horrible candidates and it's nothing more than a puppet show.

Doesn't matter anyway...Obama has nothing to stand on but rah rah speech and bullshit rhetoric. Sadly some morons still fall for that. Obama will get his ass kicked again by Romney..who's another banker Wall St puppet in his own right.

Unless there's MAJOR overhaul in this country's govt, this country is completely fucked beyond belief.

Buy your guns and ammo. Get your CC licenses. Invest in precious metals and commodities. Because this economy WILL crash...it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 09:16 PM
I never thought of Ryan as a neocon. What makes you say that? Just curious.

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 09:18 PM
I never thought of Ryan as a neocon. What makes you say that? Just curious.

Ron Paul supporters are contractually obligated to call every Republican a neocon at least twice a day on message boards.

SNR
10-11-2012, 09:23 PM
The answer is "who cares?" but I thought that was a cop out so I answered.

Biden answered the questions. Ryan didn't. I know I'm weird, but that's a sticking point for me in debates.

Biden absolutely won, and I don't give a shit if he was talking with his mouth full of premature infants while Ryan gave his answers. He seemed better prepared.

But again, it's the fucking vice-presidential debate. My give-a-shit meter reads 0.

RINGLEADER
10-11-2012, 09:34 PM
There are going to be a lot of funny Biden compilation videos in the next couple days...

BigRedChief
10-11-2012, 09:38 PM
Not a chance, this was a sacrifice fly by Obama/Biden. Sure they scored a single run but they also got an out. It worked but it certainly isn't as good as a solid double to bring the runner across.You really think Biden has solid double talent in him? You ever watch the guy?:LOL:

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 09:40 PM
This is worthless as a private poll, btw.

patteeu
10-11-2012, 09:42 PM
I didn't watch. I listened on the radio. I can't speak to appearance or body language. I'd call it a draw out of the gate, Biden ahead a bit in the middle rounds, Ryan closed strong.

That's how I saw it too.

patteeu
10-11-2012, 09:44 PM
I never thought of Ryan as a neocon. What makes you say that? Just curious.

He didn't support Ron Paul.

patteeu
10-11-2012, 09:45 PM
Ron Paul supporters are contractually obligated to call every Republican a neocon at least twice a day on message boards.

... or this. LOL

jjjayb
10-11-2012, 09:45 PM
I give the edge to Biden. Not by much though. It was a lot closer by the end than it was in the beginning. I did like the few times Biden talked directly to the camera and the people watching. I thought that went over well. I did think Ryan closed a lot better than Biden did, but the overall nod I'd give to Biden.

Braincase
10-11-2012, 09:46 PM
Biden owned with the specifics. Ryan was playing dodge ball.

Mr. Kotter
10-11-2012, 10:00 PM
Biden did exactly what he needed to do; energize the Dem base, and appear in command. He did that, while showing appropriate emotion and humor. He definitely "won," if only by a small margin. The only people who would think otherwise, or that it was over-the-top, are dittoheads and other Romney die-hards. Biden set the stage for Obama for next week, to get back on track.

Ryan held his own, but the image of him from the debate....was of a used car salesmen, or a funeral director. He was in command of his version of the facts, but appeared arrogant and smug at times--detached. Don't underestimate that. It may have played well with the Rep base...but I'm not so sure about the true Fickle/Undecided types.

Expect polling to stabilize, or even reverse (slightly) the Romney gains of the past week.

Dylan
10-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Very disappointed in Martha Raddatz – she was more interested in her own “brilliant” questions than getting answers…or maybe she just could not follow the Ryan logic.

Raddatz seemed to want to move on quickly when Ryan started to drive points home. In addition, she allowed the disrespect from Biden who, like true to the attitude from this administration, acts cavalier and dismisses anyone who can actually make an argument.

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 10:03 PM
Biden did exactly what he needed to do; energize the Dem base, and appear in command. He did that, while showing appropriate emotion and humor. He definitely "won," if only by a small margin. The only people who would think otherwise, or that it was over-the-top, are dittoheads and other Romney die-hards. Biden set the stage for Obama for next week, to get back on track.

Ryan held his own, but the image of him from the debate....was of a used car salesmen, or a funeral director. He was in command of his version of the facts, but appeared arrogant and smug at times--detached. Don't underestimate that. It may have played well with the Rep base...but I'm not so sure about the true Fickle/Undecided types.

Expect polling to stabilize, or even reverse (slightly) the Romney gains of the past week.

Weird

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Mr. Kotter
10-11-2012, 10:04 PM
There are going to be a lot of funny Biden compilation videos in the next couple days...

The Ryan parodies and caricatures will be much, much more hilarious IMHO. SNL will have a field day...with Biden, yes; but I can't wait for their portrayal of Ryan. Ryan just may have become the Republican version of Howard Dean (okay, minus the over-the-top zealotry--but Dean-like, none-the-less.) Heh.

Ebolapox
10-11-2012, 10:05 PM
neither won any undecideds. that's all that matters.

Mr. Kotter
10-11-2012, 10:06 PM
Weird

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

So, Romeny and RWNJ radio is more "energized" to rig internet polling. Color me surprised by that...

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 10:07 PM
So, Romeny and RWNJ radio is more "energized" to rig internet polling. Color me surprised by that...

Yeah, the Republicans are more in command of the Internet...good call.

Saul Good
10-11-2012, 10:08 PM
The Ryan parodies and caricatures will be much, much more hilarious IMHO. SNL will have a field day...with Biden, yes; but I can't wait for their portrayal of Ryan. Ryan just may have become the Republican version of Howard Dean (okay, minus the over-the-top zealotry--but Dean-like, none-the-less.) Heh.

In what way will Ryan be lampooned? Biden was a caricature.

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 10:08 PM
Weird

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Yep definitely weird

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648

patteeu
10-11-2012, 10:08 PM
Weird

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Only dittoheads and other Romney die-hards watch CNN.

Chiefshrink
10-11-2012, 10:09 PM
In the long run it doesn't matter.

Krauthammer said it best. Judge it on 3 levels. If you judged them on paper their content was a tie. If you listened by radio which I did for part of it as I was driving home then Biden won. If you watched it then Biden lost all of his points based on his condescending demeanor and TV is the most valuable in this day and age.

Needle actually moves further down for Obama. I think you will see the polls move down because Biden didn't help but actually hurt Barry even more because as some of you said women,undecideds and independents won't tolerate condescension.;)

patteeu
10-11-2012, 10:10 PM
The Ryan parodies and caricatures will be much, much more hilarious IMHO. SNL will have a field day...with Biden, yes; but I can't wait for their portrayal of Ryan. Ryan just may have become the Republican version of Howard Dean (okay, minus the over-the-top zealotry--but Dean-like, none-the-less.) Heh.

What is the defining characteristic of a Howard Dean without the over-the-top zealotry?

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 10:11 PM
Yep definitely weird

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648

One is an Internet poll (CNBC) the other is an RDD sample (CNN). Ryan wins.

Dylan
10-11-2012, 10:12 PM
Here is the poll: Interesting.

http://www.pollingreport.com/

Mr. Kotter
10-11-2012, 10:13 PM
What is the defining characteristic of a Howard Dean without the over-the-top zealotry?

A dead-ringer for....a used car salesmen, insurance agent, or funeral director. NTTAWWT, of course. Heh.

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 10:15 PM
One is an Internet poll (CNBC) the other is an RDD sample (CNN). Ryan wins.

Here's a problem with your sample. Sample size of 381 with a margin of error of plus or minus 5.

You don't know shit.

BigRedChief
10-11-2012, 10:16 PM
In the long run it doesn't matter.

Krauthammer said it best. he is a fucking moron. He said that Clinton sucked at the Dem convention. He has no street cred outside of the bubble.

Chiefshrink
10-11-2012, 10:18 PM
he is a ****ing moron. He said that Clinton sucked at the Dem convention. He has no street cred outside of the bubble.

And that is why Obama is up in the polls because of Clintons appearance at the DNC ?? Yeah, Clinton rocked it didn't he ?;)

patteeu
10-11-2012, 10:19 PM
A dead-ringer for....a used car salesmen, insurance agent, or funeral director. NTTAWWT, of course. Heh.

That's weird, I never saw Howard Dean as any of those things. Rick Perry seems more like the used car salesman to me. Chris Dodd could be selling insurance. And Mitch Daniels seems like the funeral director type. I don't really see what you're seeing here and I doubt that many others do either.

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 10:19 PM
Here's a problem with your sample. Sample size of 381 with a margin of error of plus or minus 5.

You don't know shit.

A random sample of even 300 is more a accurate than any convenience sample. Sorry. Nice try though.

Ron Paul won every Internet poll for years. Convenience samples were responsible for the Dewey "win" and new coke. Again.... Nice try! LMAO

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 10:20 PM
And that is why Obama is up in the polls because of Clintons appearance at the DNC ?? Yeah, Clinton rocked it didn't he ?;)

Clinton's speech was a large reason for the big DNC bounce.

T-post Tom
10-11-2012, 10:22 PM
Gaz and the American people. :)

J Diddy
10-11-2012, 10:23 PM
A random sample of even 300 is more a accurate than any convenience sample. Sorry. Nice try though.

Ron Paul won every Internet poll for years. Convenience samples were responsible for the Dewey "win" and new coke. Again.... Nice try! LMAO

It doesn't conclusively say anything and it's sample size is incredibly small, which is why such a large margin of error. Seriously +/-5 is a range of 10%. Not even worth doing the poll.

Direckshun
10-11-2012, 10:26 PM
Molly Ball
@mollyesque

I'm beginning to comprehend the Obama-Biden campaign's good cop-insane cop strategy.

ROFL

Direckshun
10-11-2012, 10:28 PM
jeremy scahill
@jeremyscahill

FOX News has just started rebroadcasting the first presidential debate.

ROFL

ROFL

ROFL

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 10:30 PM
It doesn't conclusively say anything and it's sample size is incredibly small, which is why such a large margin of error. Seriously +/-5 is a range of 10%. Not even worth doing the poll.

Are you debating the merits of a random sample vs convence sample? As someone who does survey research for a living I'll take that debate any day.

400 respondents drawn randomly can provide a valuable snapshot. Perfect... No, but remember that you get diminishing returns as n increases. 500 is generally enough for a fair inference.

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 10:31 PM
Molly Ball
@mollyesque

I'm beginning to comprehend the Obama-Biden campaign's good cop-insane cop strategy.

ROFL

:LOL:

LiveSteam
10-11-2012, 10:31 PM
jeremy scahill
@jeremyscahill

FOX News has just started rebroadcasting the first presidential debate.

ROFL

ROFL

ROFL

not on my TV

patteeu
10-11-2012, 10:31 PM
It doesn't conclusively say anything and it's sample size is incredibly small, which is why such a large margin of error. Seriously +/-5 is a range of 10%. Not even worth doing the poll.

What do you think the margin of error on the poll you posted is? +/-50?

Dallas Chief
10-11-2012, 10:32 PM
I think Biden did about the best he possibly could. His strategy, after Obama let basically everything go a week ago, was to let nothing go. He was aggressive, interrupt-y, dickish, and sucked up all the oxygen in the room.

Ryan didn't sound like Ryan. He sounded small, like a high school student reciting lines rather than a top-notch wonk delivering information he knows backwards. What a strange performance by an up-and-comer.

He was stymied probably twice in pretty critical fashion, once when he failed yet again to provide anything in the way of specifics of the Romney/Ryan tax plan, and again on Afghanistan, when I thought he actually had a point.

The moderator really won, though. Her questions were very, very good and often very tough. I hated the last question but the rest are fine by me.

This wasn't the homerun Romney's was last week, but it was a very flashy double.

Hey dummy! Look!!! Way over there ========> Yeah that! You see that? Its pretty far away from you, I know. What is it you ask?

Reality.

It's a long way away, but you really should try and go get some.

Chiefshrink
10-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Clinton's speech was a large reason for the big DNC bounce.

Well J Dildo my man, apparently Clinton's speech at the DNC couldn't keep Barry a float in the polls from exposing his incompetence and arrogance in the first debate. And if you think Biden helped tonight you are smoking the same weed Barry and his handlers have been smoking.:thumb:

Dallas Chief
10-11-2012, 10:33 PM
What do you think the margin of error on the poll you posted is? +/-50?

Exactly. A fuggin internet poll that i just voted 15 times on. Where is the dunce cap???

LiveSteam
10-11-2012, 10:35 PM
Well J Dildo my man, apparently Clinton's speech at the DNC couldn't keep Barry a float in the polls from exposing his incompetence and arrogance in the first debate. And if you think Biden helped tonight you are smoking the same weed Barry and his handlers have been smoking.:thumb:

Dnt you dare blame Hemp for the debacle that is the Obama administration:harumph:

Chiefshrink
10-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Dnt you dare blame Hemp for the debacle that is the Obama administration:harumph:

Just calling it like I see it;)


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/1096/obama_smoking-weed1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.420magazine.com/forums/general-420-talk/84939-barack-obama-smoking-weed.html&h=884&w=900&sz=114&tbnid=fu3axpRcbW9cGM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=92&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bsmoking%2Bweed%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=obama+smoking+weed&usg=__iiyA8HAzdTEVq2E-L0FFluRm80A=&docid=MplDCi3V3d-AmM&sa=X&ei=4p53UKHDKsabyQGgn4DYDw&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAw&dur=1503

LiveSteam
10-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Just calling it like I see it;)


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/1096/obama_smoking-weed1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.420magazine.com/forums/general-420-talk/84939-barack-obama-smoking-weed.html&h=884&w=900&sz=114&tbnid=fu3axpRcbW9cGM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=92&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bsmoking%2Bweed%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=obama+smoking+weed&usg=__iiyA8HAzdTEVq2E-L0FFluRm80A=&docid=MplDCi3V3d-AmM&sa=X&ei=4p53UKHDKsabyQGgn4DYDw&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAw&dur=1503

STOP IT! LMAO

RINGLEADER
10-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Looks like the CP polls is the same as CNBC is the same as AP is the same as CNN...slight Ryan win...

What does Biden think of that?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PCtemaHgjyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Mayor
10-11-2012, 10:42 PM
LMAO

LiveSteam
10-11-2012, 10:54 PM
Looks like the CP polls is the same as CNBC is the same as AP is the same as CNN...slight Ryan win...

What does Biden think of that?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PCtemaHgjyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That didnt take long LMAO

Chief Henry
10-11-2012, 10:58 PM
Probably a tie on content, but Uncle Joe's demeanor pushes it the other way

Probabbly this....but, Biden stated factly that they (admn) did not receive any request for additional security. wtf he threw Hillary under the bus with that statement because yesterday in the congressional hearings several people testified to the complete opposite of what Biden said.

I think that is the BIG story of the night.

Chiefshrink
10-11-2012, 11:24 PM
wtf he threw Hillary under the bus with that statement because yesterday in the congressional hearings several people testified to the complete opposite of what Biden said.

Dude, everyone is running for cover on this story and the Marxist media is attempting to treat it like they did F & F(crickets), but it ain't working.


The only reason this is being finally reported on other networks is because of Kathryn Herridge of Fox News who pushes the envelope and forces her peers at the other networks to do the same. If the press wasn't corrupt she would win many awards for her tenacity and getting the scoop but since she works for Fox News she will probably get nothing and most likely demonized in the end for exposing 'The King with no clothes"(Barry the Marxist).

Fairplay
10-11-2012, 11:37 PM
Biden takes it on who was the most rude, inappropriate and constantly interrupting. That behavior does not sit well with most people.

That laughing at practically everything Ryan said got old. His debate team must have told him to do that.

mnchiefsguy
10-11-2012, 11:37 PM
Biden did exactly what he needed to do; energize the Dem base, and appear in command. He did that, while showing appropriate emotion and humor. He definitely "won," if only by a small margin. The only people who would think otherwise, or that it was over-the-top, are dittoheads and other Romney die-hards. Biden set the stage for Obama for next week, to get back on track.

Ryan held his own, but the image of him from the debate....was of a used car salesmen, or a funeral director. He was in command of his version of the facts, but appeared arrogant and smug at times--detached. Don't underestimate that. It may have played well with the Rep base...but I'm not so sure about the true Fickle/Undecided types.

Expect polling to stabilize, or even reverse (slightly) the Romney gains of the past week.


First comment tonight I have seen that categorized Ryan as arrogant. I thought Biden was certainly much more aggressive and arrogant tonight.

patteeu
10-11-2012, 11:44 PM
First comment tonight I have seen that categorized Ryan as arrogant. I thought Biden was certainly much more aggressive and arrogant tonight.

Kotter drinks a lot. He was probably mistaking Two and a Half Men for the VP debate.

jjjayb
10-11-2012, 11:50 PM
That didnt take long LMAO

I like it.

Mrs. Loopner
10-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Tie
And, I'd like to take that 'tie' and gag both of them with it!
Biden's smugness, Ryan doing his best not to say something Romney will have to clean-up in the morning made me want to puke. And, I would have been happy to bitch-slap Martha! She was all about making sure she appeared to do a 180 to Jim Lehrer's noodleness during the Pres. Debate.
Never mind, I'll gag myself with the tie.

KChiefer
10-12-2012, 03:39 AM
Looks like the CP polls is the same as CNBC is the same as AP is the same as CNN...slight Ryan win...

Currently 52% Biden ;)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648

RedNeckRaider
10-12-2012, 04:23 AM
Biden takes it on who was the most rude, inappropriate and constantly interrupting. That behavior does not sit well with most people.

That laughing at practically everything Ryan said got old. His debate team must have told him to do that.

Real old. Ryan appeared stiff and uneasy taking drinks several times. I got bored about half way through and went to bed~

bsp4444
10-12-2012, 05:58 AM
Ok, now it's the conservatives time to be disengenuine. I can understand voting tie, but Ryan in no way won that debate AS A WHOLE.

banyon
10-12-2012, 05:58 AM
I gave the edge to Biden on this one. I felt the exchange on the 20% tax rate reduction where Ryan kept ducking the question about identifying deductions made him look pretty bad, like he was hiding something.

At least when I'm dealing with 12 people in a courtroom i don't know, you really don't want to look that way.

I still think Obama can press that question even harder in the pres. debates. "We'll give you all the time you need... you explain the math and a possible combination of deductions that would make up the revenue." or "Why do you not have to negotiate the rate, but you do have to negotiate the large deductions with Congress? What's the difference?"

Biden might have had a rude edge to him at times, but people already know his personality, so I don't think that's quite the impactful negative that some have made it out to be so far.

banyon
10-12-2012, 06:00 AM
Ryan did have the best line of the night though (although it appeared a bit rehearsed) with "The Vice President should know that words don't always come out the way you want them to." Clearly the Romney campaign had been thinking about what they could do to fend off the 47% comments. I don't know that the one-liner did it, but it got a good laugh.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 06:05 AM
First comment tonight I have seen that categorized Ryan as arrogant. I thought Biden was certainly much more aggressive and arrogant tonight.

Ryan always comes off as smug.

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 06:07 AM
I gave the edge to Biden on this one. I felt the exchange on the 20% tax rate reduction where Ryan kept ducking the question about identifying deductions made him look pretty bad, like he was hiding something.

At least when I'm dealing with 12 people in a courtroom i don't know, you really don't want to look that way.

I still think Obama can press that question even harder in the pres. debates. "We'll give you all the time you need... you explain the math and a possible combination of deductions that would make up the revenue." or "Why do you not have to negotiate the rate, but you do have to negotiate the large deductions with Congress? What's the difference?"

Biden might have had a rude edge to him at times, but people already know his personality, so I don't think that's quite the impactful negative that some have made it out to be so far.
I follow politics pretty close and I didn't know that Biden's personality was like that. Go figure

banyon
10-12-2012, 06:10 AM
I follow politics pretty close and I didn't know that Biden's personality was like that. Go figure

Did you watch him debate Palin?

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 06:12 AM
Did you watch him debate Palin?

Don't think I caught that one. Did he act the same way?

banyon
10-12-2012, 06:13 AM
Don't think I caught that one. Did he act the same way?

It's been a while since I watched it, but it didn't seem all that different to me, except that the stakes were higher in this one and so he was more aggressive because he had to make up for Obama being asleep.

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 06:16 AM
It's been a while since I watched it, but it didn't seem all that different to me, except that the stakes were higher in this one and so he was more aggressive because he had to make up for Obama being asleep.

I'm not sure what the number of viewers was for last nights debate. I'm just saying that if most people already knew Biden's persona, I don't think that his demeanor would be the main topic of the debate the day after

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 06:18 AM
Well J Dildo my man, apparently Clinton's speech at the DNC couldn't keep Barry a float in the polls from exposing his incompetence and arrogance in the first debate. And if you think Biden helped tonight you are smoking the same weed Barry and his handlers have been smoking.:thumb:

I just don't read it that way Penisshrink. Things bounce around in politics, impacts of speeches and debates seem to dwindle with time. I mean seriously, do you real think that a speech 1 month ago would affect the polls now? Hell even Romney calling 47% of Americans freeloaders has worn off by now. Furthermore, your inability to even turn your head to the left has blinded you to what has happened. Biden stomped a mud hole in preppies ass.

LiveSteam
10-12-2012, 06:39 AM
Biden stomped a mud hole in preppies ass.

Thats funny. Most of what I am reading,talks about how Biden carried on like a crazy oldman that had his last pair of Depends underwear stolen. Biden could have easily won hands down. But instead he acted like an ASS through out the entire debate.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 06:48 AM
Thats funny. Most of what I am reading,talks about how Biden carried on like a crazy oldman that had his last pair of Depends underwear stolen. Biden could have easily won hands down. But instead he acted like an ASS through out the entire debate.

It was a need. He had to be as vocal as possible whenever he could about Ryan's fact deficiencies and talking points. A need that was predicated on the performance of his boss in the previous debate. While I agree that he might not have won over the undecided, he certainly put some fire back in their base.

LiveSteam
10-12-2012, 07:07 AM
It was a need. He had to be as vocal as possible whenever he could about Ryan's fact deficiencies and talking points. A need that was predicated on the performance of his boss in the previous debate. While I agree that he might not have won over the undecided, he certainly put some fire back in their base.

This came out within minutes of the debate ending. He did Boy Wounder no favors last night.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PCtemaHgjyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LMAO

banyon
10-12-2012, 07:17 AM
Thats funny. Most of what I am reading,talks about how Biden carried on like a crazy oldman that had his last pair of Depends underwear stolen. Biden could have easily won hands down. But instead he acted like an ASS through out the entire debate.

Where are you reading that? Limbaugh's message board?

Inspector
10-12-2012, 07:17 AM
Biden did way better than Obama and scored points on several occasions. He was clearly much more experienced at debating and seemed more comfortable.

I think Ryan showed well and appeared to be the more mature. He too made good points on several occasions.

I've talked to a few folks this morning - both sides of the political leanings - and we all, for the most part, agreed that Biden's immature reactions made his appear unprofessional and somewhat bafoonish. He would, in our opinion, served himself better without the facial theatrics, interrupting and nervous laughter at innappropriate times. His message could have remained the same and been more effective. I do think his behaviour, for some people, was a big turnoff even if his words were well said in some cases.

Ryan appeared a little too easy to get pushed around but did better as the debate went on.

I just don't think I could call a clear winner on this one and I can't imagine it changing anyone's voting decision. And it may have possibly hurt Obama's position with undecided voters who were annoyed by Biden's tactics as well as won some over who enjoyed the aggresiveness he had.

IMO, as always.

durtyrute
10-12-2012, 07:18 AM
The next president will be so much different than all of the rest. He will make changes that will sweep across the globe. No more war, no more raising taxes, proper education for ALL kids, no more cigarettes, no more off-shoring, he will find a way to get us off of oil and cure cancer. Just watch, it'll happen this time, he said it would.

Chiefshrink
10-12-2012, 07:21 AM
I mean seriously, do you real think that a speech 1 month ago would affect the polls now?

Obviously you do:thumb:

Chiefshrink
10-12-2012, 07:29 AM
and we all, for the most part, agreed that Biden's immature reactions made his appear unprofessional and somewhat bafoonish.

And it may have possibly hurt Obama's position with undecided voters who were annoyed by Biden's tactics as well as won some over who enjoyed the aggresiveness he had.



:thumb: Yep ! JOE went "Occupy Wall Street" last night and the only thing missing from Joe last night was the literal rape and deficating on Ryan;)

patteeu
10-12-2012, 07:32 AM
Don't think I caught that one. Did he act the same way?

No, he was much more respectful against Palin. He would have been crucified if he'd acted the way he did last night against a woman. I don't think it hurt him that much against Ryan though.

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 07:36 AM
Where are you reading that? Limbaugh's message board?

How many comments have you heard along the lines of "Biden really made a good point when he said that..." compared to "what was up with Biden's creepy smile, laughing at inappropriate times, and constant interrupting"?

wazu
10-12-2012, 07:39 AM
Last night I voted "tie", but this morning the main thing I remember is that Biden acted like a jerk.

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 07:43 AM
Last night I voted "tie", but this morning the main thing I remember is that Biden acted like a jerk.

Same here except that I voted who cares.

Radar Chief
10-12-2012, 07:44 AM
Where are you reading that? Limbaugh's message board?

:shrug: Probably 75% of what I’m reading this morning indicates Biden came off like a braying ass.
The other 25% are mostly lefty cheerleaders that would’ve called the win for him if he’d been frog marched out the door.

Direckshun
10-12-2012, 07:58 AM
Can we.

Please.

Stop.

Complaining.

That a candidate sounds "arrogant."

Jesus Christ, they all sound arrogant.

Biden, Ryan, Romney, Obama. They all appear arrogant.

God, just try and sell me that any of these four guys has acted "humble" in this election cycle. Please god try.

Find me a ****ing President from the past 50 years who hasn't been.

That's the ****ing point of the thing.

ZepSinger
10-12-2012, 08:02 AM
Tie on content, IMO- but demeanor-wise, Biden came off like the arrogant, idiot ass that he is. Gonna hurt him with undecideds I think.

banyon
10-12-2012, 08:05 AM
:shrug: Probably 75% of what I’m reading this morning indicates Biden came off like a braying ass.
The other 25% are mostly lefty cheerleaders that would’ve called the win for him if he’d been frog marched out the door.

They are all saying he was crazy, senile, and ajar his depends?

Codered
10-12-2012, 08:08 AM
Tie on content, IMO- but demeanor-wise, Biden came off like the arrogant, idiot ass that he is. Gonna hurt him with undecideds I think.

As an undecided voter I agree with this. It's not that I think or trust Romney/Ryan. However, the way Biden came across as a bully ... flat out jack ass. I couldn't get behind him no matter what was coming out of his mouth last night.

That being said the VP Debate is obviously not going to be the turning point in where I decide to vote.

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Can we.

Please.

Stop.

Complaining.

That a candidate sounds "arrogant."

Jesus Christ, they all sound arrogant.

Biden, Ryan, Romney, Obama. They all appear arrogant.

God, just try and sell me that any of these four guys has acted "humble" in this election cycle. Please god try.

Find me a ****ing President from the past 50 years who hasn't been.

That's the ****ing point of the thing.

LMAO:LOL:

What? Is that piss in your morning coffee instead of a sweetener ?

Binden was an spolled brat up there, is this how he is to handle world leaders one day ( God Forbid ) if even in the hot seat. He couldn't handle the hot seat last night.

Fairplay
10-12-2012, 08:16 AM
Biden came across as very arrogant.

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 08:19 AM
Looks like the CP polls is the same as CNBC is the same as AP is the same as CNN...slight Ryan win...

What does Biden think of that?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PCtemaHgjyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

An arrogant laughing ass. Go Figure ?

patteeu
10-12-2012, 08:19 AM
Unusual levels of arrogance coming from Obama and Biden this year. All the more shocking when you consider how little they have to be arrogant about.

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 08:34 AM
Tie on content, IMO- but demeanor-wise, Biden came off like the arrogant, idiot ass that he is. Gonna hurt him with undecideds I think.

It's not going to help nor hurt. Biden needed to show that they had fight in them, and Ryan needed to show that he was up to the job of being VP.

They both did this admirably. Essentially, both of them held serve and left it up to the top of the ticket to sort it out.

Lzen
10-12-2012, 08:42 AM
Yep definitely weird

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49327648

I'm going to guess that when you posted this last night, the results favored Biden by a good margin. I figured that was not a big surprise considering the source. But I looked anyway. Interesting that it is a wash.

Who do you think won the vice presidential debate?
Paul Ryan
47%

Joe Biden
48%

Neither
5%



Total Votes: 170798

wazu
10-12-2012, 08:46 AM
Unusual levels of arrogance coming from Obama and Biden this year. All the more shocking when you consider how little they have to be arrogant about.

The two often get confused, but arrogance is the polar opposite of confidence.

Radar Chief
10-12-2012, 08:50 AM
They are all saying he was crazy, senile, and ajar his depends?

Braying ass, is what I said. Sounds like he scored some points but was undermined by his demeanor, but 75% may be a bit high, I’m thinking 2/3 to ¾ so 66-75%.

Dallas Chief
10-12-2012, 08:50 AM
Can we.

Please.

Stop.

Complaining.

That a candidate sounds "arrogant."

Jesus Christ, they all sound arrogant.

Biden, Ryan, Romney, Obama. They all appear arrogant.

God, just try and sell me that any of these four guys has acted "humble" in this election cycle. Please god try.

Find me a ****ing President from the past 50 years who hasn't been.

That's the ****ing point of the thing.

JC and Gee Oh Dee won't help you on this one, no matter how many times you take their name in vain. Very arrogant of you to believe otherwise.

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 08:56 AM
This excerpt nails it best, from what I've seen so far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-vice-presidential-debate-biden-rattles-ryan/2012/10/12/427cd0c0-1430-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop

Biden’s theatrics, if overdone, were clearly deliberate, because he dropped them during the closing minutes of the debate and adopted a softer voice. “You probably detected my frustration with their attitude about the American people,” Biden said, reprising Romney’s “47 percent” remark (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video#47percent).
For an Obama campaign upended by Romney’s sudden move to the middle, the vice president’s success in directing his outrage less at the gelatinous Romney than at the the hard-and-fast positions of congressional Republicans would seem to provide an antidote.

When Ryan tried to blame Obama for the automatic defense spending cuts, Biden pointed out that Ryan had praised the agreement: “We’ve been looking for this moment for a long time.” When Ryan criticized inadequate security in last month’s attack on diplomats in Libya, Biden retorted: “The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for.”

On Iran sanctions: “Imagine had we let the Republican Congress work out the sanctions. You think there’s any possibility the entire world would have joined us?”

On taxes: “Instead of signing pledges to Grover Norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class ‘we’re going to level the playing field.’ ”

On homeowners: “Get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down.”

Biden, looking into the camera, warned viewers that a Ryan proposal would have increased Medicare recipients’ costs by $6,400. Ryan was compelled to assure viewers that his earlier push for partial privatization of Social Security is “not what Mitt Romney’s proposing.”

An indignant Biden accused Ryan and his fellow Republicans in Congress of tanking the economy. “They talk about this Great Recession as if it fell out of the sky, like, ‘oh my goodness, where did it come from?’ ” he said, then pointed at Ryan. “It came from this man, voting to put two wars on a credit card, [and] . . . a trillion-dollar taxcut for the very wealthy.”

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 08:59 AM
This excerpt nails it best, from what I've seen so far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-vice-presidential-debate-biden-rattles-ryan/2012/10/12/427cd0c0-1430-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop

Biden’s theatrics, if overdone, were clearly deliberate, because he dropped them during the closing minutes of the debate and adopted a softer voice. “You probably detected my frustration with their attitude about the American people,” Biden said, reprising Romney’s “47 percent” remark (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video#47percent).
For an Obama campaign upended by Romney’s sudden move to the middle, the vice president’s success in directing his outrage less at the gelatinous Romney than at the the hard-and-fast positions of congressional Republicans would seem to provide an antidote.

When Ryan tried to blame Obama for the automatic defense spending cuts, Biden pointed out that Ryan had praised the agreement: “We’ve been looking for this moment for a long time.” When Ryan criticized inadequate security in last month’s attack on diplomats in Libya, Biden retorted: “The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for.”

On Iran sanctions: “Imagine had we let the Republican Congress work out the sanctions. You think there’s any possibility the entire world would have joined us?”

On taxes: “Instead of signing pledges to Grover Norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class ‘we’re going to level the playing field.’ ”

On homeowners: “Get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down.”

Yes, he was rude and obnoxious, but that's fine because he did it on purpose. /kotter

BigCatDaddy
10-12-2012, 09:03 AM
Proverbs 29:9 - If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.

Jawshco
10-12-2012, 09:34 AM
Proverbs 29:9 - If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.

What translation is that? I've never read it worded that way.

I thought Ryan sounded like an overly scripted infomercial. He needed to step out side of his RR dogma and talk about what his practical ideas and stances were. I don't think Biden really out debated him. If anything it was the moderator who dealt Ryan the serious blows when she called him out on several occasions and he just went into "prerecorded message" mode.

Biden was a buffoon the entire time. He didn't win the debate, but his performance certainly didn't allow Ryan to win either.

So... I give the win to the Moderator.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 09:40 AM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/283587_509552452389003_1210088970_n.jpg

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 09:43 AM
I voted Biden because I don't believe in ties. He didn't really "win" but he slowed Romney's momentum which is a win.

He may have won to his base but they didn't change the mind of independents or any voting block that wasn't already firmly in the Obama corner.

VP debates don't mean much

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 09:47 AM
What translation is that? I've never read it worded that way.

I thought Ryan sounded like an overly scripted infomercial. He needed to step out side of his RR dogma and talk about what his practical ideas and stances were.

VPs can't really help the ticket in a debate, but they can certainly hurt it by doing something stupid. Ryan was like a football team who had the ball at their own 20 yard line 15 seconds before halftime. He knelt on the ball and went to the locker room. He didn't need to risk anything by being overly aggressive, so he didn't.

CoMoChief
10-12-2012, 10:06 AM
Funny how morons still believe this fairy tale that our political system is still credible.

Romney and Obama are one of the same.

ZepSinger
10-12-2012, 10:08 AM
What translation is that? I've never read it worded that way.

Although all versions contain slightly different wording, the gist of the message is the same.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2029:9&version=ASV

Donger
10-12-2012, 10:11 AM
“It came from this man, voting to put two wars on a credit card, [and] . . . a trillion-dollar taxcut for the very wealthy.”

The funny part is that Biden voted for both those wars, too.

Oops.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 10:13 AM
The funny part is that Biden voted for both those wars, too.

Oops.

And he supported an even more costly version of the Prescription Drug entitlement he accused Republicans of paying for via credit card too.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:14 AM
As an undecided voter I agree with this. It's not that I think or trust Romney/Ryan. However, the way Biden came across as a bully ... flat out jack ass. I couldn't get behind him no matter what was coming out of his mouth last night.

That being said the VP Debate is obviously not going to be the turning point in where I decide to vote.

After 2 years of this shit you still don't know who you're going to vote for? Sounds like a procrastination issue.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 10:14 AM
After 2 years of this shit you still don't know who you're going to vote for? Sounds like a procrastination issue.

Maybe he's been waiting for Recovery Summer to finally take hold.

BigCatDaddy
10-12-2012, 10:14 AM
The funny part is that Biden voted for both those wars, too.

Oops.

Joe Kerry was for the wars before he was against them.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:16 AM
LMAO:LOL:

What? Is that piss in your morning coffee instead of a sweetener ?

Binden was an spolled brat up there, is this how he is to handle world leaders one day ( God Forbid ) if even in the hot seat. He couldn't handle the hot seat last night.

God forbid is right. He could do worse. He could go to another country and infuriate the entire population over some games.

Cave Johnson
10-12-2012, 10:18 AM
LOL at CP breaking decisively for Ryan....

bsp4444
10-12-2012, 10:19 AM
He may have won to his base but they didn't change the mind of independents or any voting block that wasn't already firmly in the Obama corner.

VP debates don't mean much

Haven't seen any results this morning but a poll of undecideds immediately following the debate refutes your statement. It showed Biden clearly gaining steam as a whole and beating Ryan on every issue, if only by a small margin.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 10:20 AM
LOL at CP breaking decisively for Ryan....

It's part of a much larger trend so if it amuses you, you're in for some good times.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:23 AM
Obviously you do:thumb:

I said that Bill Clinton's speech was a large part of the bounce that was received after the DNC. How in the world, from that statement, do you conclude that I think it still has an impact. In fact I even stated Romney's hidden tape statement has blown over by now.

Seriously.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:23 AM
It's part of a much larger trend so if it amuses you, you're in for some good times.

Unfortunately, it won't be large enough.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:41 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page

Hmm, this seems to dispute some of the CP voting.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 10:50 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page

Hmm, this seems to dispute some of the CP voting.

What do you expect for a news outlet in the tank for Obama? Hey if you think Biden won so be it but I don't think they gained a single voter last night, the only people I am concerned with now are the Independents and Unaffiliated (like myself)

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 10:53 AM
What do you expect for a news outlet in the tank for Obama? Hey if you think Biden won so be it but I don't think they gained a single voter last night, the only people I am concerned with now are the Independents and Unaffiliated (like myself)

I sincerely doubt that last night won a single vote. Nor do I think anyone would base their vote on a vp debate. However, this wasn't a poll about winning peoples votes, this was a poll on how the undecided felt about it.

Pitt Gorilla
10-12-2012, 10:57 AM
What do you expect for a news outlet in the tank for Obama? Hey if you think Biden won so be it but I don't think they gained a single voter last night, the only people I am concerned with now are the Independents and Unaffiliated (like myself)You can literally read the methodology regarding the poll.

King_Chief_Fan
10-12-2012, 11:05 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page

Hmm, this seems to dispute some of the CP voting.

it also disputes CNN

cosmo20002
10-12-2012, 11:13 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/?pageNum=2&tag=page

Hmm, this seems to dispute some of the CP voting.

it also disputes CNN

The CBS poll was uncommitted likely voters who watched the debate.
CNN poll was simply anyone who watched the debate.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 11:23 AM
The CBS poll was uncommitted likely voters who watched the debate.
CNN poll was simply anyone who watched the debate.
no such thing as an uncommitted voter at this stage

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 11:24 AM
Ha Ha, a CBS poll conducted with 100 registered democratic voters and they still can't get a major majority!:D

All I can tell ya guys is this thing is close and the D's are scared to death.

cosmo20002
10-12-2012, 11:27 AM
no such thing as an uncommitted voter at this stage

Well, that's how they ID themselves.

headsnap
10-12-2012, 11:28 AM
no such thing as an uncommitted voter at this stage

if anyone is uncommitted at this stage, they should be! ;)

Bump
10-12-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't give a shit who wins. Socialism vs Fascism. Who cares because the good of the common man is the last thing our government is concerned with, it's only about getting richer.

But I do like what Biden said about abortion and not forcing his religious beliefs on others.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 11:35 AM
Well, that's how they ID themselves.

I know but I just don't see how anyone could be just sitting there debating who they will choose, like they are going into the booth wondering who to vote for... I don't buy it...

I also get sick of seeing people on tv say it doesn't matter who you vote for , just vote...

No hell no don't just vote, There should be some kind of test to be able to vote

Bump
10-12-2012, 11:37 AM
.

No hell no don't just vote, There should be some kind of test to be able to vote

like you could pass it

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't give a shit who wins. Socialism vs Fascism. Who cares because the good of the common man is the last thing our government is concerned with, it's only about getting richer.

But I do like what Biden said about abortion and not forcing his religious beliefs on others.
Bush had the Supreme court majority for 8 years and they didn't change Roe vs Wade and no one ever will, I am Pro Life but this should be a non issue in a Presidential election because nothing is going to be done either way. No President has EVER forced their beliefs on others from the podium.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 11:39 AM
like you could pass it

Sure thing pot head ... Puff Puff

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Ha Ha, a CBS poll conducted with 100 registered democratic voters and they still can't get a major majority!:D

All I can tell ya guys is this thing is close and the D's are scared to death.

what poll are you referring to ?

The Rick
10-12-2012, 11:42 AM
But I do like what Biden said about abortion and not forcing his religious beliefs on others.
So why do they make it so easy by providing federal funding to do so?

Bump
10-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Sure thing pot head ... Puff Puff

I may be a pot head (like there is anything wrong with it). But I bet I am the only one to point out your avatar, that's a reference to Major League isn't it? whoa. cool man. :thumb:

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 11:45 AM
So why do they make it so easy by providing federal funding to do so?

The obvious answer is that it is a medical procedure and by not doing so you would be forcing someone religion on another as well.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't give a shit who wins. Socialism vs Fascism. Who cares because the good of the common man is the last thing our government is concerned with, it's only about getting richer.

But I do like what Biden said about abortion and not forcing his religious beliefs on others.

He contradicted that claim by saying that his religion is what motivates him to force us all to co-sign on unsustainable entitlements and deficit expanding welfare programs.

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't give a shit who wins. Socialism vs Fascism. Who cares because the good of the common man is the last thing our government is concerned with, it's only about getting richer.

But I do like what Biden said about abortion and not forcing his religious beliefs on others.

True dat...

Wow. I just ditto-ed a Bob Marley freak....wierd. :huh:

Ryan contradicted his claims by saying that his religion is what motivates him to force us all to co-sign on unsustainable defense spending in a post Cold War world and deficit expanding corportate welfare programs.

FYP, Mr. Hydrocodone-Fiend.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 11:51 AM
I may be a pot head (like there is anything wrong with it). But I bet I am the only one to point out your avatar, that's a reference to Major League isn't it? whoa. cool man. :thumb:

If I were smoking pot I would watch that movie everyday

Bump
10-12-2012, 11:51 AM
True dat...

Wow. I just ditto-ed a Bob Marley freak....wierd. :huh:



FYP, Mr. Hydrocodone-Fiend.

color me a proud Bob Marley freak then!

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 11:54 AM
what poll are you referring to ?

It was a joke, as in the CBS poll, a joke, when hasn't it ever been tipped to the side of the liberals ?

But on a side note, this race is closer than many liberals want to give credit to.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 11:59 AM
It was a joke, as in the CBS poll, a joke, when hasn't it ever been tipped to the side of the liberals ?

But on a side note, this race is closer than many liberals want to give credit to.

I can't think of a single person who thinks this thing isn't close, but it isn't nearly as close as you think.

Pitt Gorilla
10-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Ha Ha, a CBS poll conducted with 100 registered democratic voters and they still can't get a major majority!:D
"This CBS News poll was conducted online using GfK’s web-enabled KnowledgePanel®, a probability-based panel designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The poll was conducted among anationwide random sample of 431 uncommitted voters who have agreed to watch the debate.Uncommitted voters are those who don’t yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidatebut may still change their minds.

GfK’s KnowledgePanel participants are initially chosen scientifically by a random selection of telephonenumbers and residential addresses. Persons in selected households are then invited by telephone or bymail to participate in the web-enabled KnowledgePanel®. For those who agree to participate, but do notalready have Internet access, GfK provides at no cost a laptop and ISP connection.

This is a scientifically representative poll of uncommitted voters’ reaction to the presidential debate. The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus 5 percentage points for results based on the entire sample."

I realize that the word "scientifically" scares some of you to death, but it shouldn't preclude you from discerning the methodology.

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 12:06 PM
"This CBS News poll was conducted online using GfK’s web-enabled KnowledgePanel®, a probability-based panel designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The poll was conducted among anationwide random sample of 431 uncommitted voters who have agreed to watch the debate.Uncommitted voters are those who don’t yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidatebut may still change their minds.

GfK’s KnowledgePanel participants are initially chosen scientifically by a random selection of telephonenumbers and residential addresses. Persons in selected households are then invited by telephone or bymail to participate in the web-enabled KnowledgePanel®. For those who agree to participate, but do notalready have Internet access, GfK provides at no cost a laptop and ISP connection.

This is a scientifically representative poll of uncommitted voters’ reaction to the presidential debate. The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus 5 percentage points for results based on the entire sample."

I realize that the word "scientifically" scares some of you to death, but it shouldn't preclude you from discerning the methodology.

431 uncommitted voters who you do not know is telling the truth or not.

Furthermore, If any uncommitted voter could have decided by last nights debate on which party to vote for, I would call that voter unacknowledged, if not stupid.

Nothing said last night was enough to swing any vote to one side.

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 12:07 PM
I can't think of a single person who thinks this thing isn't close, but it isn't nearly as close as you think.

OK, moving right along here .........

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:13 PM
431 uncommitted voters who you do not know is telling the truth or not.

Furthermore, If any uncommitted voter could have decided by last nights debate on which party to vote for, I would call that voter unacknowledged, if not stupid.

Nothing said last night was enough to swing any vote to one side.

You obviously have no clue about random sampling. It's the same format that virtually every inferential statistic is built upon.

I was going to let it slide when you obviously couldn't interpret the methodology or even the results of the poll, however, at this point it's safe to assume you haven't a clue.

digger
10-12-2012, 12:29 PM
Quick who said this? (No cheating.)
"Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Quick who said this? (No cheating.)
"Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

Big Bird?

patteeu
10-12-2012, 12:35 PM
Quick who said this? (No cheating.)
"Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

Lloyd Bentsen's old pal? (http://bztv.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/26/john_f_kennedy1963.jpg)

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 12:36 PM
Quick who said this? (No cheating.)
"Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

JFK's time was far, far different than the one W left us with...huge swing and a miss. Not to mention that the Cold War is over and done--even if the right seem unwilling to bury the dead.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Lloyd Bentsen's old pal? (http://bztv.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/26/john_f_kennedy1963.jpg)

You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.vvvYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 12:40 PM
JFK's time was far, far different than the one W left us with...huge swing and a miss.

You're probably right. In JFK's time we didn't have 47% of Americans paying zero income tax. We could probably raise more revenue if we lowered the tax rate on the 53% and raised it on the 47% instead of cutting rates across the board. Good catch.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 12:41 PM
You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.vYou cheated.You cheated.vvvYou cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.You cheated.

Only to the extent of using google to find a good picture to link to, so I guess it's technically true.

Edit: Now that I review the challenge, there was no prohibition on using google to enhance my answer, so I withdraw my admission and deny in the strongest possible terms that I cheated.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:45 PM
JFK's time was far, far different than the one W left us with...huge swing and a miss. Not to mention that the Cold War is over and done--even if the right seem unwilling to bury the dead.

Lmao, why channel a politician who has been dead just 50 years ? We can do better than this. Let's see, oh the founding fathers believed a black person was 3/5 of a man.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:46 PM
Only to the extent of using google to find a good picture to link to, so I guess it's technically true.

Edit: Now that I review the challenge, there was no prohibition on using google to enhance my answer, so I withdraw my admission and deny in the strongest possible terms that I cheated.

Whatever helps ya sleep at night, Patty McCheatCheat.

ROYC75
10-12-2012, 12:46 PM
You obviously have no clue about random sampling. It's the same format that virtually every inferential statistic is built upon.

I was going to let it slide when you obviously couldn't interpret the methodology or even the results of the poll, however, at this point it's safe to assume you haven't a clue.

Look, it may well be AS CLOSE AS IT CAN GET to an actual poll, but it's not spot on accurate. Do you not think for one minute that if a person was asked to conduct a poll and had a hard lean to one side, they might not go ahead and show it, vote it to get the results leaning to their favored side ? Of course they would.

But why argue about it, it's pointless, you win.

Anybody deciding by last nights debate was / is just silly.

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 12:47 PM
You're probably right. In JFK's time we didn't have 47% of Americans paying zero income tax. We could probably raise more revenue if we lowered the tax rate on the 53% and raised it on the 47% instead of cutting rates across the board. Good catch.

I've got no problem with that part of the Con argument; it's just the other half of reverse RobinHood economics that they are trying to sneak past us too....that causes us non-ideologues real issues.

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Lmao, why channel a politician who has been dead just 50 years ? We can do better than this. Let's see, oh the founding fathers believed a black person was 3/5 of a man.

"But, see, see....see this! Then, even the Dems understood that trickle-down always, always, always works--even if economic circumstances then were completely different from now!"

Let's say it all together now: "Let's double-down on trickle-down! Let's double-down on trickle-down! Let's double-down on trickle-down! Don't forget to click your heels together as you say it. Come on, everybody!!!" And the entire universe will be pooping unicorns and rainbows forever, and ever! Amen.

Now, pass my my new lower capital gains tax rates and the top 1-2%-ers before the middle class figures out what's hit them!

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 12:58 PM
You're probably right. In JFK's time we didn't have 47% of Americans paying zero income tax. We could probably raise more revenue if we lowered the tax rate on the 53% and raised it on the 47% instead of cutting rates across the board. Good catch.

Doubtful. However the tax rates were much, much higher for wealthy individuals, as well as social security only taxing first 4k and medicare not existing.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 01:02 PM
Look, it may well be AS CLOSE AS IT CAN GET to an actual poll, but it's not spot on accurate. Do you not think for one minute that if a person was asked to conduct a poll and had a hard lean to one side, they might not go ahead and show it, vote it to get the results leaning to their favored side ? Of course they would.

But why argue about it, it's pointless, you win.

Anybody deciding by last nights debate was / is just silly.

Of course it's not spot on accurate. That's why it has a plus 5, minus 5 margin of error. (That by the way is the estimated difference between the sample statistics and the population parameter) Had this occurred within that margin of error then, yeah, it would be a wash, because it wouldn't have shown anything exclusively. This was outside that margin or error, showing conclusiveness. This was a scientific study using random samples.

Once more I reiterate, this poll was not about deciding votes, it was about the opinions of undecided voters about the debate last night.

Saul Good
10-12-2012, 01:06 PM
Lmao, why channel a politician who has been dead just 50 years ? We can do better than this. Let's see, oh the founding fathers believed a black person was 3/5 of a man.

Do you understand why that was a GOOD thing for blacks at the time?

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Do you understand why that was a GOOD thing for blacks at the time?

It wasn't. It was good for the southern states in the terms of representation and good for the northern states in terms of comparable taxation being levied. Other than that I know of no benefit. (Other than the obvious it allowed the writing of the constitution to go forward)

digger
10-12-2012, 01:26 PM
This is something no liberal can understand.

"an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits"

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 01:29 PM
This is something no liberal can understand.

"an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits"

So...returning to tax rates from the decade that was, the most prosperous peace-time expansion of the U.S. Economy....in the history of the country, should not cause any concerns, right?

This is something no liberal can understand.

"an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits"

FTR, it was the 1990s...Gene Sperling, Clintons’s former economic advisor, has opined that, in the absence of appropriate policies 'the rising tide will lift some boats, but others will run aground'


That's the part that Dittoheads and other RWNJs don't understand.

mlyonsd
10-12-2012, 01:34 PM
So...returning to tax rates from the decade that was, the most prosperous peace-time expansion of the U.S. Economy....in the history of the country, should not cause any concerns, right?
You want to get rid of all the Obama tax cuts? Across the board?

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 01:37 PM
This is something no liberal can understand.

"an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits"

If you're sitting on $250 million and are making millions more a year, how exactly is the tax code hampering your ability to grow the economy?

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 01:37 PM
You want to get rid of all the Obama tax cuts? Across the board?

If left to me, yup. And W's too.

RedNeckRaider
10-12-2012, 02:33 PM
If left to me, yup. And W's too.

You bet just tax the shit out of everyone. Of course this would not scratch the surface of the money needed to dig this country out of debt. I am interested in your plan after that failed and unemployment would be near 50%~

The Rick
10-12-2012, 02:44 PM
The obvious answer is that it is a medical procedure and by not doing so you would be forcing someone religion on another as well.
So, essentially, the position is this?

"We personally don't like abortion, but we're not going to keep a woman from doing it if she wants because we absolutely don't want to impose our religious beliefs on to her. So if she wants to go ahead and do it, she can. But just to make *completely* sure she doesn't think we're trying to force our religious beliefs on to her, even though we already said she's free to do it, we're going to throw some money that way in order to make it as easy as possible for her to do it. But honestly we ourselves are against it and don't like it."

:spock:

Mr. Kotter
10-12-2012, 02:59 PM
You bet just tax the shit out of everyone. Of course this would not scratch the surface of the money needed to dig this country out of debt. I am interested in your plan after that failed and unemployment would be near 50%~

1990s rates....WTH does your rant got to do with that? You know what? Nothing. That's what. Duh.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 03:04 PM
So, essentially, the position is this?

"We personally don't like abortion, but we're not going to keep a woman from doing it if she wants because we absolutely don't want to impose our religious beliefs on to her. So if she wants to go ahead and do it, she can. But just to make *completely* sure she doesn't think we're trying to force our religious beliefs on to her, even though we already said she's free to do it, we're going to throw some money that way in order to make it as easy as possible for her to do it. But honestly we ourselves are against it and don't like it."

:spock:

I don't see how you think that money is being thrown at abortion to make it convenient and on the tax payer dime? Could you please clarify?

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 03:06 PM
1990s rates....WTH does your rant got to do with that? You know what? Nothing. That's what. Duh.

These people crack me up. They look at the tax rates now and scream oh they're too high! They need to look up what they were before Reagan cut them in 82.

The Rick
10-12-2012, 03:18 PM
I don't see how you think that money is being thrown at abortion to make it convenient and on the tax payer dime? Could you please clarify?
Directly? No, due to the Hyde Amendment. Indirectly though through funding of PP and through Obamacare via simple accounting tricks and loopholes.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 03:19 PM
I am tired of keeping up scumbags, the taxes don't need to go up, stupid spending on fucking deadbeats need to go down.

HonestChieffan
10-12-2012, 03:22 PM
"When a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet."

Proverbs 29:9

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 03:26 PM
I am tired of keeping up scumbags, the taxes don't need to go up, stupid spending on ****ing deadbeats need to go down.

That back of yours doesn't heal up, you may become one of those scumbags. Careful with the label because life can throw curveballs you never see coming

Radar Chief
10-12-2012, 03:27 PM
I am tired of keeping up scumbags, the taxes don't need to go up, stupid spending on ****ing deadbeats need to go down.

Even with this crap economy this government will take in ~$3Trillion in tax revenue this year.
The problem isn’t income.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 03:28 PM
That back of yours doesn't heal up, you may become one of those scumbags. Careful with the label because life can throw curveballs you never see coming


I pay for short term and long term disability, I am not on the Gubment Dole

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 03:29 PM
I pay for short term and long term disability, I am not on the Gubment Dole

Just saying you never know where life will lead you.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 03:30 PM
Just saying you never know where life will lead you.

Oh I am 100% for helping those who are disabled, Fraud is whats wrong with this country

stonedstooge
10-12-2012, 03:31 PM
Oh I am 100% for helping those who are disabled, Fraud is whats wrong with this country

I agree with you there

TEX
10-12-2012, 03:34 PM
I didn't watch. I listened on the radio. I can't speak to appearance or body language. I'd call it a draw out of the gate, Biden ahead a bit in the middle rounds, Ryan closed strong.


Obama needed Joe to kill the guy. Didn't happen.

Yep. I saw it exactly the same way. Didn't even come close to killing anything.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 03:38 PM
I agree with you there

The people with 30 subsidized phones, or the people buying lobster tails and 25 dollar rib eyes with the ebt card or the girl I know that quit her job at the Dr.s office and chose to be a part time waitress at the pizza joint because she made too much money and it was affecting her welfare... You see her posting from a great restaurant 3-4 times a week.

Shit makes me sick

BigRedChief
10-12-2012, 04:00 PM
I pay for short term and long term disability, I am not on the Gubment Dole:thumb: Count me in on this.

3rd&48ers
10-12-2012, 04:24 PM
:thumb: Count me in on this.

It's good to have when you need it even if they treat you like they are doing you a favor. Funny as hell though, the woman tells me to call her as soon as I get out of the Docs office, I don't call her but she damn sure calls me within two hours.

I am going to make damn sure my ribs are healed before I go back to work.

KCTitus
10-12-2012, 05:16 PM
Biden won...according to the left wing. Ryan won...according to the right wing. What's most important is what was the impression of the undecideds. Did the independents/moderates appreciate the way that Biden acted? I think the post debate conversation says, no.

I think that Biden ultimately over compensated for the lackluster performance of Obama last week. He had the advantage, the debate focused primarily on foreign policy and I felt that Ryan was unable to complete several answers.

The best line of the night came from Ryan after Biden's bringing up the 47% comment and the audience laughed. There was no other reaction to any other statement. Biden made a few factual gaffes...the fact that he stated he voted against the wars, when he did and he mentioned that they didnt know about the terrorist activities in Libya.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Doubtful. However the tax rates were much, much higher for wealthy individuals, as well as social security only taxing first 4k and medicare not existing.

It's not doubtful at all. It's all but certain.

J Diddy
10-12-2012, 07:15 PM
It's not doubtful at all. It's all but certain.

Perhaps in your mind.

patteeu
10-12-2012, 07:27 PM
Perhaps in your mind.

It's easy to talk, but anyone with any understanding of tax policy knows I'm right even if it's politically infeasible. But by all means, keep talking.

Pawnmower
10-13-2012, 04:40 PM
Ryan won on substance, Biden was effective at what he did (kind of a filibuster tactic)...but I think he looked pretty tacky and didn't offer much otherthan 'shits & giggles"

Id put it as a win for Ryan, but just barely...I'd have loved to see Ryan ask Biden wtf was so funny about people dying etc...

SO yah..Ryan by a little bit (substance versus style/tactics)

HonestChieffan
10-13-2012, 04:45 PM
Biden impressed Obots. His job was to sway undecideds. My bet is he drove a bunch to Romney. And any Dem who was not embarrassed is a fool.Id also bet undecided women were most turned off by his dumbass routine

Tuesday will be a tie at best and that is bad for Obama. And debate 3 on foreign policy will be an epic win for Romney.

-King-
10-14-2012, 02:55 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PCtemaHgjyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Lol.

theelusiveeightrop
10-14-2012, 05:49 PM
Chuck Norris