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View Full Version : Money Phil Ivey denied $11.7 million payout...


Stewie
10-13-2012, 05:01 AM
http://www.yardbarker.com/media/7/c/7ca600b9cdc6da21decb6cdd35f69bf93dc308ca/xl/53406399.jpg


By now, you would think casinos are used to paying Phil Ivey. The eight-time World Series of Poker champion has made millions of dollars throughout his gambling career, but at the moment he could be more than $10 million short.


According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Ivey recently won $11.7 million playing a game called Punto Blanco (http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/stutz/London_casino_and_poker_player_Phil_Ivey_in_dispute_over_115_million_payout.html) at Crockfords, an upscale casino in London. The game involves no skill and is simply won and lost by the cards the dealer hands out, and Crockfords is reportedly witholding the money Ivey won on the game after he went on a massive heater.

Ivey apparently requested that the money be deposited into his bank account, but Crockfords has only returned his original bankroll of $1.6 million. The Daily Mail reported that Phil initially lost $800,000 when he began playing (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213888/Punto-Banco-Worlds-number-poker-player-wins-7-3m-2-nights-London-casino-REFUSES-pay-out.html) the game, but then he and a female companion went on a two-night hot streak. The lady with whom he was gambling reportedly had her membership revoked by another casino previously.


Investigators have flown to London to speak with employees from Crockfords and review surveillance cameras. Ivey and his lady friend reportedly never touched the cards, and the situation is said to have turned into an “increasingly tense stand off” with lawyers from both sides working to sort through it.


Could Ivey and his friend have worked together to win $11.7 million at a game of chance? Unfortunately, I know nothing about Punto Blanco or cheating a casino and I only understand crazy bets like this one (http://larrybrownsports.com/football/geno-difelice-won-on-packers-seahawks-hail-mary/156516) and this one (http://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/bettor-won-105000-on-texas-state/152952), so I can’t say. On one hand you can see why the casino would be suspicious. On the other you have to wonder how Ivey would have pulled off such a job.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-13-2012, 05:17 AM
Chances are, this money is going to get paid. They'll have to be able to prove something happened without a shadow of a doubt. And if it does get paid, they're going to take an equal hit to their reputation which will probably cost them as much in future revenue.

Stewie
10-13-2012, 05:31 AM
Chances are, this money is going to get paid. They'll have to be able to prove something happened without a shadow of a doubt. And if it does get paid, they're going to take an equal hit to their reputation which will probably cost them as much in future revenue.

If he had won this in a short period of time I'd suspect dealer help. But since it was won over two days he probably had multiple dealers. The other thing is it's stated that he never touched any cards. I think the casino will have a hard time proving he cheated. I guess he got lucky turning $800K into $11.7 million on a game of chance. If he did cheat it would make for great drama.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-13-2012, 05:39 AM
If he had won this in a short period of time I'd suspect dealer help. But since it was won over two days he probably had multiple dealers. The other thing is it's stated that he never touched any cards. I think the casino will have a hard time proving he cheated. I guess he got lucky turning $800K into $11.7 million on a game of chance. If he did cheat it would make for great drama.

Yeah, but like you said, it's almost a given that he didn't. This casino is going to take a beating over this, and they're gonna have to pay the money. It makes me wonder if they just don't have it. Or have so little over it, that they're trying to put off the inevitable just so they can raise some more funds to keep operating after paying it. Otherwise this makes absolutely no sense for them to do. A casino loses it's credibility, and it's pretty much dead in the water.

TinyEvel
10-13-2012, 05:54 AM
Stupid replacement dealers are completely ruining the casino experience. END THE DEALER LOCKOUT NOW!

threebag02
10-13-2012, 06:57 AM
It would make for great drama.

Only if it involved drugs and hookers

Ceej
10-13-2012, 07:16 AM
Ivey seems like a genuine, stand-up guy.

I expect eventually the casino will pay him out the money.

Two-Twenty
10-13-2012, 09:30 AM
Ivey seems like a genuine, stand-up guy.

I expect eventually the casino will pay him out the money.

LMAO

The world class poker player seems genuine huh?

Ceej
10-13-2012, 09:37 AM
LMAO

The world class poker player seems genuine huh?

Compared to most other poker players, yes.

Ebolapox
10-13-2012, 09:55 AM
no-home jerome has come a long freaking way.

alnorth
10-13-2012, 10:02 AM
I was unfamiliar with this game, but after quickly looking at the rules, there is really no strategy whatsoever. The only choice you are given is whether to bet on your hand or the dealer's hand, and whether you want to bet on a tie. Once bets are done, you could have a blindfold and ear plugs forced on you until the next hand and it wouldn't make a difference whether you'd win or lose. The game is a coin flip with a couple special rules to give the house the slim advantage they need. There's also no way a partner could help you out, the only way to break this game is with a crooked dealer.

If the casino cant prove that the dealer is helping Ivey cheat then they are going to take a beating. If I was a high-stakes gambler I wouldn't go to this casino if I wasn't sure I would get paid on an amazing winning streak.

Bump
10-13-2012, 10:05 AM
since he's famous and making the news they will pay to avoid bad press. If it were a regular dude, they wouldn't have a chance at getting the money. Casino's don't have to pay you in the US, I don't know about London.

alnorth
10-13-2012, 10:10 AM
since he's famous and making the news they will pay to avoid bad press. If it were a regular dude, they wouldn't have a chance at getting the money. Casino's don't have to pay you in the US, I don't know about London.

I can understand withholding payment pending an investigation, but if they cant prove you or the dealer cheated (or that the slot machine was broken, which does happen sometimes), they have to pay up. The casino can't just up and go "nah, we don't feel like honoring your bet today"

qabbaan
10-13-2012, 10:43 AM
Because this game is dumb luck, there is really no way possible to go on such a hot streak without dealer help. I don't blame the casino for investigating.

That being said, gambling industries are crooked to their core and if they find some way to deny a fairly won payout they will.

alnorth
10-13-2012, 10:52 AM
Because this game is dumb luck, there is really no way possible to go on such a hot streak without dealer help. I don't blame the casino for investigating.

That being said, gambling industries are crooked to their core and if they find some way to deny a fairly won payout they will.

If he bet his entire bankroll (after initially losing half of it) and let it ride, he'd only need to win 4 times. He probably didn't do that, especially since he played for 7 hours, but if we ignore little bets and only focus on big bets and he bet half his stack, he'd only need 5 of those wins without a loss to get there. Then of course, if he ever bet on a tie, that pays out 8 to 1 or 9 to 1.

Its not like he sat down with 10k and increased his bankroll thousand-fold. What he did is not likely, but its not really amazing enough to adopt a default stance of "he cheated". Its amazing enough to look into it and talk to the dealers, but thats it, we're just talking about a win that was a factor of 15.

Jewish Rabbi
10-13-2012, 11:10 AM
It wasn't even a factor of fifteen. It says his starting bankroll was 1.6 million, so around 7.3. I've taken $100 to the casino and walked away with $700 or more several times. It's not the norm, but not crazy to see either.

alnorth
10-13-2012, 11:16 AM
It wasn't even a factor of fifteen. It says his starting bankroll was 1.6 million, so around 7.3. I've taken $100 to the casino and walked away with $700 or more several times. It's not the norm, but not crazy to see either.

I'm counting it as 800k since the story said he lost half of it before he started winning, just to give the "he cheated" faction the biggest benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, if he made big bets all 7 hours then it starts to get really unlikely, but if he just made little bets for the most part and won most of his money on a few big bets, then what he did is roughly a few percent chance of happening. Yeah, its really unlikely, but we don't suspect people who successfully bet on a 30 to 1 horse at the track.

tonyetony
10-13-2012, 11:52 AM
The casino will pay eventually. This is just the casinos way of sending the message of you will probably never want to come back because we are very difficult to deal with.

Cashing out when way up always pisses the casinos off, they always make it seem like you must stay. I'm sure the casino went from kissing his ass to get him to stay and then tried begging him to stay, after that they tried strong arming him. Good for Ivey for staring them down.