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View Full Version : Chiefs Mellinger: Chiefsí biggest problem isnít turnovers, itís the QB


dallaschiefsfan
10-13-2012, 04:22 PM
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/13/3865487/chiefs-biggest-problem-isnt-turnovers.html#storylink=cpy

Posted on Sat, Oct. 13, 2012
Chiefs’ biggest problem isn’t turnovers, it’s the QB
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The talk around the Chiefs is about turnovers. Gotta limit turnovers. Take care of the ball. Value the football. For all the talk about Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn and whether this hot mess of a season can be saved, so much of what’s been said and focused upon in team meeting rooms has been about limiting turnovers.

On the surface, it makes fine sense. The Chiefs outgained every opponent this season but have turned the ball over 19 times already. That’s a silly number, you know. It’s more than three teams had all of last season, and on pace for more than any team in the last 30 years.

Internally, the Chiefs seem to believe this is their biggest problem, that fixing the turnovers will stop the angry banners from flying over Arrowhead Stadium, and soften the criticism of general manager Scott Pioli, and redirect attention to what finally looks like a very good defense.

The thing is, that belief is just wrong. The much bigger problem is the quarterback, whether it’s Cassel or Quinn. The facts are overwhelming.

Think about this: teams with more yards of offense are winning 65 percent of the time this season, teams with more rushing yards are winning 68 percent of the time, and teams with fewer turnovers are winning 76 percent of the time.

Teams with the higher passer rating are winning 85 percent of the time.

Quarterback play trumps all, even turnovers, and it is past time the Chiefs join the 21st century. And to the point that Cassel is on the hook for 14 of the Chiefs’ turnovers, these issues are correlated, but it only matters if the Chiefs see it this way and drastically change their priorities.

Because they are swimming upstream, running a race with ankle weights, and competing in a beauty contest without makeup. They’re focused on the wrong things. This is the most frustrating kind of losing.

Even if the Chiefs fix what they think they’re doing wrong, they’ll still be doing it wrong.

In general terms, this is not new, of course. The need for an improved quarterback situation is a staple column topic here, and criticism of Pioli’s confidence in Cassel is now part of Kansas City’s DNA.

But as the evidence stacks up, the Chiefs should be forced into making major changes — regardless of who is in charge. Consider this a public service.

The purpose today isn’t to rehash old arguments, but to look at them from different perspectives. Like, for instance, Las Vegas oddsmakers. Sports books have proprietary quarterback rating systems that are among their biggest factors in setting lines.

Elite passers like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are worth as much as a touchdown — an enormous number in a league where only one game opened with a line bigger than five points this week.

Curious what happened when Cassel was officially ruled out this week in favor of Quinn, who has completed just 52 percent of his passes and hasn’t started a game in three years?

“No (line) move whatsoever on Cassel,” says Pat Morrow, head oddsmaker for Bovada.

In oversimplified terms, the Chiefs have focused on every position but quarterback, convinced that if the rest of the roster is strong enough they can win without a Hall of Fame passer. This is a bit like trying to start a fire with two sticks instead of a Zippo.

Even ignoring how horrendous Cassel was this year before his concussion, and that Quinn also isn’t good, the philosophy is so clearly outdated (at best) or delusional (at worst) that it has some fans rooting for losses so the team might be convinced to draft a quarterback.

The facts are overwhelming. The last game-managing quarterback to win a Super Bowl was Brad Johnson a decade ago, and in the last 25 years, every Super Bowl-winning quarterback but three (Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypien) is either in the Hall of Fame or likely to be inducted.

The NFL’s emphasis on parity, particularly through the salary cap, makes it nearly impossible to be so good at other positions that a team can be merely OK at the most important spot.

But Ben Roethlisberger can compensate for a mediocre offensive line, Aaron Rodgers can make up for a weak running game, and Tom Brady can hide a bad defense.

Changes in how football is played — from rules favoring the offense to quarterbacks entering the league much better prepared than ever before — mean that “good” is no longer good enough. It used to be that quarterbacks needed to throw catchable balls. Now, they’re relied on for passes so accurate that the receivers maintain speed and extend plays after the catch.

When the Broncos traded Jay Cutler to the Bears a few years ago, Chicago ended up with the second-best record in the NFC and Denver ended up with the second pick in the draft. Various studies have shown that when elite quarterbacks face non-elite passers, they win about 80 percent of the time.

The Chiefs are essentially trying to make hay in that 20 percent. They are knowingly going into most games disadvantaged in something that league-wide numbers and Vegas experts with millions on the line say is even more critical than turnovers. They are doing this on purpose.

It’s incredible how much of the Chiefs’ mess could be cleaned up with a better quarterback situation.

The worst part is that the Chiefs seem to be the only team in the league that doesn’t see this. With the possible exception of the Jets — who reached two AFC championship games with Mark Sanchez — no team has gone nearly as long as the Chiefs without an honest effort to improve nearly as bad a quarterback situation.

The Chiefs are either smarter than every other team in the league, or spinning their wheels in thick mud, and at 1-4 with the NFL’s fifth-worst point differential, the evidence is stacking up fast.

It tells you plenty that Chiefs fans are relieved to see Quinn. Imagine if they actually had a promising quarterback. One that wasn’t given up on after 12 starts in Cleveland, who hasn’t been behind Ken Dorsey and Tim Tebow and Derek Anderson on the depth chart.

Instead, the Chiefs have put their fans in the awkward position of wondering whether it’s better the team continues to lose so that the organization may have more motivation and opportunity to fix its fundamental flaw.

This is what happens when a fan base is forced to wait for a team to recognize reality.

To reach Sam Mellinger, call 816-234-4365, send e-mail to smellinger@kcstar.com or follow twitter.com/mellinger. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.

© 2012 Kansas City Star and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.kansascity.com

BossChief
10-13-2012, 04:26 PM
Yes, please.

TribalElder
10-13-2012, 04:30 PM
Just teach Charles to throw 5 and 10 yard passes then go all wildcat.

KCUnited
10-13-2012, 04:31 PM
Props to Mellinger for getting out in front of that Pioli turnover spin and curb stomping it.

DeezNutz
10-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Keep the pressure on; it's our only hope.

dallaschiefsfan
10-13-2012, 04:34 PM
Props to Mellinger for getting out in front of that Pioli turnover spin and curb stomping it.

That just never gets old...always makes me laugh.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 04:35 PM
If your QB can't make plays, you aren't gonna win shit.

Simple as that.

If we stop turning the ball over we'll just lose close games.

HemiEd
10-13-2012, 04:37 PM
shocking

qabbaan
10-13-2012, 04:38 PM
Good column.

Except Johnson, Dilfer, and Rypien, every Super Bowl winning QB of the last 25 years is in the hall of fame or likely to be inducted. Great stat.

Speak truth to Pioli

BossChief
10-13-2012, 04:38 PM
Our hope is that Cassel is deactivated, Quinn either plays at a level he never has or fails terribly and is replaced by Stanzi after 2-3 games and he either lights the football world on fire or plays terribly, too.

We need that top pick.

Ghost of Maslowski
10-13-2012, 04:39 PM
we could have grown a franchise QB from Lenny's DNA in the time it's taking the Chiefs to find another one.

suzzer99
10-13-2012, 04:40 PM
Mellinger has really stepped up this year. Shame that means we're probably going to lose an outlet to someone that actually pays money

BossChief
10-13-2012, 04:42 PM
Hey Sam, I know you're gonna read this and I just want to say on behalf of all of us:

Thanks for stepping up and pointing out the real root of the problem and giving us a voice.

Kudos, sir.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 04:45 PM
Various studies have shown that when elite quarterbacks face non-elite passers, they win about 80 percent of the time.

How curious that Cassel's record against elite quarterbacks is .210. LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

the Talking Can
10-13-2012, 04:48 PM
preach brother mellinger

BossChief
10-13-2012, 04:49 PM
These articles are great.

It's like Mellinger is donating $10,000 to our cause with each writeup.

Fruit Ninja
10-13-2012, 04:53 PM
Good column.

Except Johnson, Dilfer, and Rypien, every Super Bowl winning QB of the last 25 years is in the hall of fame or likely to be inducted. Great stat.

Speak truth to Pioli

Rypien went off that year as well the redskins at the time were breaking offensives records left and right. He was elite that year.

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 04:53 PM
Just teach Charles to throw 5 and 10 yard passes then go all wildcat.

Hell with the strategy they used last week, it would have made more sense to have a lineman playing the position of quarterback.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 04:57 PM
It really angers me that this team might find some stupid pride and will their way to 6-10.

Just give up, idiots. You get paid either way.

Ace Gunner
10-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Crennel should not have made excuses for Matt Cassel. Cassel's leadership is at the center of this mayhem -- he's a horrible leader. After four seasons as a starter, you either got it, or you are Matt Cassel.

Romeo used to be a guy that didn't sugar coat it. Not anymore. $$$ changes a man sometimes.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:00 PM
Romeo is retiring, and gives no fucks.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 05:01 PM
The thing I like about Cassel and Quinn is that they are tall and have nice hair. /Romeo

stonedstooge
10-13-2012, 05:05 PM
The thing I like about Cassel and Quinn is that they are tall and have nice hair. /Romeo

And when you don't score as many points as the other team, you lose the ballgame/Romeo

FAX
10-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Great, great column.

The quote about attempting to make hay in the 20% is a fabulous way of looking at the problem. Well done, Mellinger. Very well done.

FAX

Mugalug
10-13-2012, 05:14 PM
My name is Mug and I approve this message.

Beerthirty
10-13-2012, 05:18 PM
We're trying to get pickels out of pickels jars/Romeo

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:19 PM
We're trying to get pickels out of pickels jars/Romeo

If I say it's easter, ya better go start colorin ya pickles herp a derp hurr durr hey hey heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 05:27 PM
The thing I like about Cassel and Quinn is that they are tall and have nice hair. /Romeo

ROFL

That almost sounds like Gunther. Maybe Quinn should rip off his sleeves. :)

BossChief
10-13-2012, 05:30 PM
ROFL

That almost sounds like Gunther. Maybe Quinn should rip off his sleeves. :)

It sounds like a joke, but the last two times they asked Romeo what he liked about Quinn, his response was that he is tall. Then he went on to include Cassel in that.

You cant make this stuff up.

DeezNutz
10-13-2012, 05:35 PM
My favorite line that highlights the absurdity: "They are doing this on purpose."

Love the incredulous tone.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:37 PM
It's just brutally embarrassing head up assholism the last four years.

We got fucked hard, and I loathe the NFC West for ever putting a positive spin on it.

Guru
10-13-2012, 05:46 PM
bet we still see Cassel this year.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:48 PM
bet we still see Cassel this year.

If Pioli isn't fired I bet Cassel is back.

Pioli will go down in flames and glorious explosions with his bubby.

siberian khatru
10-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Good column.

Except Johnson, Dilfer, and Rypien, every Super Bowl winning QB of the last 25 years is in the hall of fame or likely to be inducted. Great stat.

Speak truth to Pioli

I'd love to hear his response to this.

Guru
10-13-2012, 05:53 PM
I'd love to hear his response to this.

WE have a pro bowl QB, what more do you want?/Pioli

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:55 PM
Pioli should be chained to a chair and forced to watch loops of Matt Cassel's worst plays while fielding questions from the four horsemen for 12 hours a day, for a week.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 05:55 PM
If Pioli isn't fired I bet Cassel is back.

I agree.

Coogs
10-13-2012, 05:57 PM
Great article, but I think a lot of credit has to go right here to the Planet. We have brought the stats out to support the arguement... sent them to the media... and guys like Kent and Sam were smart enough to pick up on the data being sent their direction and keep digging for more.

:thumb: Sam!

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 05:58 PM
Make a difference, not a point.

Guru
10-13-2012, 05:59 PM
Make a difference, not a point.

don't you mean differance LMAO

Fat Elvis
10-13-2012, 06:00 PM
Rypien went off that year as well the redskins at the time were breaking offensives records left and right. He was elite that year.

Matt Cassel is a pro-bowl QB. He grades out perfectly. LMAO

Hog Farmer
10-13-2012, 06:06 PM
Wrong ! 19 turnovers has lost us two games . We should be 3-2 at worst. If we had a decent/good QB we would be 5-0. We have enough talent other than QB to be 13-3 this year and make a hell of a run in the playoffs.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 06:06 PM
Matt Cassel was on pace to break the franchise record for passing yards in a season and is a pro bowler.

WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK FOR???

whoman69
10-13-2012, 06:09 PM
New CP mantra: Its the Quarterback, Stupid

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 06:11 PM
Matt Cassel was on pace to break the franchise record for passing yards in a season and is a pro bowler.

WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK FOR???

Hehe. He's got so many garbage yards. We would have had to go 1-15 and be behind by 20 in every game for him to actually do it. That would have been epic for Cassel to set the passing yard record in the same year as setting the franchise record for losses.

FringeNC
10-13-2012, 06:12 PM
One minor quibble -- QB rating takes into account turnovers...but overall point is exactly right.

You win in this league by being able to move the ball through the air without throwing INTs.

Cassel is been beyond bad this year. Cassel is a completely damaged good mentally, and Quinn will be better. I really have no idea how much better, but better. Very unlikely that he'll play at an NFL-competent level like Orton, though.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 06:15 PM
Quinn will complete 55 percent of his passes for 6 YPA and we'll lose 24-17 instead of 34-10

BossChief
10-13-2012, 06:23 PM
I expect Quinn to look better than most think because TB has the bottom pass defense in the league.

Around 220-240 yards 2tds/2-3ints. 60% 7YPA

Molitoth
10-13-2012, 06:23 PM
Quinn will complete 55 percent of his passes for 6 YPA and we'll lose 24-17 instead of 34-10

What happens IF you are completely off?

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 06:33 PM
What happens IF you are completely off?

If Brady Quinn is actually a decent QB, this team is completely fucked.

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 06:34 PM
If Brady Quinn is actually a decent QB, this team is completely ****ed.

That is pretty stupid.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 06:37 PM
If Quinn is decent we'll finish 6-10 or 7-9 or some stupid BS.

You want that?

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 06:38 PM
If Quinn is decent we'll finish 6-10 or 7-9 or some stupid BS.

You want that?

If Quinn is decent we'll finish higher than that.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 06:40 PM
If Quinn is decent we'll finish higher than that.

So you literally think Brady Quinn can come in and lead us to 8-3 down the stretch. LMAO

With games against:

Manning x2
@Roethlisberger
@Rivers

the Talking Can
10-13-2012, 06:41 PM
If Quinn is decent we'll finish higher than that.

even worse

NJChiefsFan
10-13-2012, 06:43 PM
If Quinn is decent we'll finish higher than that.

How is finishing 8-8 or 9-7 good for this franchise? You want a 2 or 3 year experiment with Brady Quinn?

BossChief
10-13-2012, 06:46 PM
So you literally think Brady Quinn can come in and lead us to 8-3 down the stretch. LMAO

With games against:

Manning x2
@Roethlisberger
@Rivers

If we get good qb play, we can beat any team in the league.

Nothing Cassel did in the first half against Atlanta was groundbreaking, but if we can get that level of play the rest of the year, this team has enough talent to get white hot.

Now, do I think that will happen, no. No, I don't.

Deberg_1990
10-13-2012, 06:50 PM
Good column.

Except Johnson, Dilfer, and Rypien, every Super Bowl winning QB of the last 25 years is in the hall of fame or likely to be inducted. Great stat.

Speak truth to Pioli

But Pioli thinks he's smarter than everyone else.
Posted via Mobile Device

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

the Talking Can
10-13-2012, 06:53 PM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

of course it is, ask the colts...

BossChief
10-13-2012, 06:54 PM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

posts like this deserve Landry Jones

NJChiefsFan
10-13-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

If Quinn does decent and saves Pioli's job, we may be looking at him next year. Thus, no upgrade at the QB position. If you can't root against your team thats fine, but I don't think the statement that "Quinn doing decent is bad" to be stupid. Not at all.

hometeam
10-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Great article. So which one of you is he?

DeezNutz
10-13-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

If the Chiefs had a GM who was creative, aggressive, and competent, I might be inclined to agree. Alas, we do not have such an executive. Thus, the team must be forced into making the right decision, and losing is the best way to ensure this.

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 07:11 PM
If the Chiefs had a GM who was creative, aggressive, and competent, I might be inclined to agree. Alas, we do not have such an executive. Thus, the team must be forced into making the right decision, and losing is the best way to ensure this.
Don't get my wrong. Pioli should go and he's done enough or not enough (depending on your perspective) already to warrant that.

FringeNC
10-13-2012, 07:25 PM
Quinn will complete 55 percent of his passes for 6 YPA and we'll lose 24-17 instead of 34-10

I'll be interested in the game-plan. I'm guessing Daboll will have way more confidence in Quinn, and we will actually throw the ball more than 4 times in the first half. Not saying Quinn will be good, but I think he will at least resemble a low-end NFL QB, something Cassel could not do.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 07:49 PM
I'll be interested in the game-plan. I'm guessing Daboll will have way more confidence in Quinn, and we will actually throw the ball more than 4 times in the first half. Not saying Quinn will be good, but I think he will at least resemble a low-end NFL QB, something Cassel could not do.

No way he will have more confidence in Quinn.

Coogs
10-13-2012, 07:51 PM
No way he will have more confidence in Quinn.

I think we already saw it. First 3rd and 7 Quinn faced, he threw a strike to Bowe fo a 20 yard gain.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 07:54 PM
I think we already saw it. First 3rd and 7 Quinn faced, he threw a strike to Bowe fo a 20 yard gain.

Because Cassel didn't do that twice in the opener at all.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 07:55 PM
No way he will have more confidence in Quinn.

As Ive tried to illustrate, Romeo doesnt want Cassel out there, either...for that to happen after the bye, Quinn needs to protect the ball but also be effective when he does put it in the air.

Count Zarth
10-13-2012, 07:55 PM
IMO, likely, better QB play would just expose other areas of the team in close games.

Like Stanford Routt getting owned on a game-winning drive by the other team.

Hell, we just had a close game and the defense choked like a bitch with the game on the line.

So there you go.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 07:56 PM
IMO, likely, better QB play would just expose other areas of the team in close games.

Like Stanford Routt getting owned on a game-winning drive by the other team.

Whats his and Carrs PFF coverage and overall rankings now?

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 07:57 PM
Because Cassel didn't do that twice in the opener at all.

Exactly.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 07:58 PM
As Ive tried to illustrate, Romeo doesnt want Cassel out there, either...for that to happen after the bye, Quinn needs to protect the ball but also be effective when he does put it in the air.

It doesn't matter what Romeo wants, he knew the conditions of employment when he signed on. Cassel will be back.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-13-2012, 08:00 PM
Good place for this

http://www2.tbo.com/sports/sports/2012/oct/13/turnover-battle-always-key-to-teams-hopes-ar-532377/

TAMPA --
It's the NFL's great equalizer.

Always has been, always will be.

Turnovers.

Even head coaches who detest statistics have come to embrace turnover margin as pro football's ultimate tipping point.

Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano has obsessed on ball security since he arrived in Tampa nine months ago. Today's opponent drives that point home with more conviction than any Schiano speech.

"They're in the top 5 in just about every offensive category,'' Bucs safety Ronde Barber said of the Chiefs, "but all those turnovers are losing games for them.''

There are several reasons behind Kansas City's 1-4 start, but you begin with the 19 giveaways and work backward from there.

Think about it.

Nineteen giveaways in five games. That's nine more turnovers than the 49ers committed all of last season.

"They're happening in a lot of different areas and for a lot of different reasons,'' frustrated Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel said. "Two weeks ago, we get the ball ripped out a couple of times. Last week, we dropped the ball and fumbled a quarterback-center exchange. We tip balls up in the air and they get intercepted. Sometimes, we throw the ball in a bad place.''

These bumbling Chiefs are on pace to challenge pro football's record for most turnovers (65) in a season, set by the Denver Broncos of the American Football League in 1961, President Kennedy's first year in office.

If Kansas City ends up setting a new mark, it's unlikely Crennel will be around in 2013 to clean up the mess.

Once again, there is a powerful correlation between NFL ball security and scoreboard success. The top seven teams in turnover ratio – the Patriots, Falcons, Bears, Texans, Redskins, Ravens and 49ers – are a combined 27-8 through Week 5.

The bottom 14 clubs are a combined 24-44.

"You look at the Chiefs offensively and the only thing they're missing right now is the way they're giving the ball away,'' Schiano said. "If they stop doing that, the most important number, points scored, will go through the roof.''

With quarterback Matt Cassel out today with a concussion, Crennel is hoping Brady Quinn can do better.

Cassel is personally responsible for 13 of Kansas City's 19 giveaways (9 interceptions, 4 fumbles lost underrmining an offense that generates 402 yards per game.

The Patriots are tied with the Falcons for the league lead in turnover differential (plus-10) and coach Bill Belichick said giveaways come in all shapes and sizes.

"Certainly turnovers come in different categories,'' he said. "Some of them are just mistakes by the offense that the defense doesn't really have anything to do with, like fumbled snaps or a pass that goes off a receiver's hands and gets batted up in the air.

"Then there are other plays where the defense reads the quarterback and jumps the route, or strips the ball from the runner or receiver. I'd say there are a number of opportunities in most games for the defense to at least get the ball out or put pressure on it. It's an awareness of those opportunities and then taking advantage of them when they occur.''

You can just see Crennel nodding his head and thinking, "That's easy for you to say, Mr. Bill … you've got Tom Brady under center.''

The Bucs have done well with a plus-3 turnover ratio, especially compared to Kansas City's absurd minus-15 mark.

Tampa Bay has lost 12 consecutive games when losing the turnover battle and the ball security matchup appears to be in their favor today.

"Holding onto the football has to be your No. 1 objective on offense,'' Barber said. "You simply can't overstate its importance.''

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 08:00 PM
IMO, likely, better QB play would just expose other areas of the team in close games.

Like Stanford Routt getting owned on a game-winning drive by the other team.

Hell, we just had a close game and the defense choked like a bitch with the game on the line.

So there you go.

You mean the fumble that was taken away because the ref had a quick whistle?

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:02 PM
How many players have missed a whole week after a concussion because the doctors wouldn't clear them for practice? I don't think that's normal at all.

He isn't even cleared to practice without contract yet.

FringeNC
10-13-2012, 08:03 PM
No way he will have more confidence in Quinn.

You can't be serious. I've never seen play-calling in the NFL like KC against Baltimore. Daboll was telling Pioli to fuck off.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-13-2012, 08:04 PM
You mean the fumble that was taken away because the ref had a quick whistle?

Of cooooourse he thinks it was a good call LMAO

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:04 PM
TB is plus 3 in turnovers because they force a lot of turnovers...iirc they are second in the NFL in giveaways behind us.

This is gonna be one ugly game.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:04 PM
You mean the fumble that was taken away because the ref had a quick whistle?

That play gets called EVERY week. It's been in the rule book since the NFL-AFL merger.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:06 PM
You can't be serious. I've never seen play-calling in the NFL like KC against Baltimore. Daboll was telling Pioli to **** off.

I've seen it a half dozen times in the last 18 months just watching this team. People are hoping against all hope that what they're seeing isn't real.

It is.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Win the turnover battle they win the game. Same as last week even with the 1800s play calling.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:07 PM
How many players have missed a whole week after a concussion because the doctors wouldn't clear them for practice? I don't think that's normal at all.

He isn't even cleared to practice without contract yet.

He's actually dead.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 08:08 PM
He's actually dead.

Should we cheer?

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:08 PM
I've seen it a half dozen times in the last 18 months just watching this team. People are hoping against all hope that what they're seeing isn't real.

It is.

Show me 3 games where an NFL team (that didnt have Tebow or the Miami wildcat) ran the ball 75% of the time.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Should we cheer?

No, we should construct an elaborate conspiracy theory.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:09 PM
He's actually dead.

I cant remember a player that missed this much time to a concussion unless they ended up retiring.

-hopes thats the case-



(not him being dead, just retiring)

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 08:10 PM
That play gets called EVERY week. It's been in the rule book since the NFL-AFL merger.

Are you referring to the Flacco fumble that was returned for a TD near the end of the game?

DaKCMan AP
10-13-2012, 08:10 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/2d01b87.gif

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 08:10 PM
I cant remember a player that missed this much time to a concussion unless they ended up retiring.

-hopes thats the case-



(not him being dead, just retiring)

Rodgers missed a game 2 yrs ago.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 08:12 PM
No, we should construct an elaborate conspiracy theory.

I thought that already happened when Matt got a phone call from some unknown?

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:12 PM
Rodgers missed a game 2 yrs ago.

I remember that, but I'm pretty sure he practiced, but only without contact.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Show me 3 games where an NFL team (that didnt have Tebow or the Miami wildcat) ran the ball 75% of the time.

This team ran the ball 42 times and passed it 18 against Jacksonville in 2010. Seriously, I am on an iPad and still found it in less than a minute.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Are you referring to the Flacco fumble that was returned for a TD near the end of the game?

He was in the grasp and therefore down.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:18 PM
I thought that already happened when Matt got a phone call from some unknown?

right after a wasted timeout followed by an interception on the very next play....followed by nothing but boos and chants of "we want quinn we want quinn"

The very next time he got hit, he stayed down.

(Im just feeding the conspiracy theory...watching the hit, its clear he got his bell rung)

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-13-2012, 08:20 PM
Cassel sucks at QB and looks douchey doing it, but I don't believe at all he "pulled a Huard". The guy tries, he just fails so hard, but he does try.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:20 PM
I've seen it a half dozen times in the last 18 months just watching this team. People are hoping against all hope that what they're seeing isn't real.

It is.

This team ran the ball 42 times and passed it 18 against Jacksonville in 2010. Seriously, I am on an iPad and still found it in less than a minute.

.

DTLB58
10-13-2012, 08:21 PM
:clap:

Dayze
10-13-2012, 08:24 PM
I want pioli gone and whoever the fuck we have as our "scouts"

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:31 PM
ROFL

So you want to play semantics with the "18 months" comment?

Why do you insist on acting like a clown?

You said name 3. I named one, from THIS team even, in less than a minute.

JASONSAUTO
10-13-2012, 08:33 PM
Whats his and Carrs PFF coverage and overall rankings now?

48 and 69 iirc
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:40 PM
ROFL

So you want to play semantics with the "18 months" comment?

Why do you insist on acting like a clown?

You said name 3. I named one, from THIS team even, in less than a minute.

Don't blame shift/throw insults and act like all I'm doing is playing a semantics game.

NFL teams don't gameplan the way we did against Baltimore unless they are totally trying to hide the quarterback and that was the point you refuted.

Shit, even the Baltimore players were saying it DURING THE GAME.

DTLB58
10-13-2012, 08:41 PM
He was in the grasp and therefore down.

Tell me the last time you heard an NFL official use the words "In the grasp" when they make the call?

They don't use that terminology any longer, it's either called the play dead or forward motion was stopped. The ref blew his whistle to supposedly protect the player, even though it has been stressed to them over the past few years to let the players play.

It's a coin flip, we could easily see a game this week where the same play is let played out. Hell, last year I was watching the exact same plays being called differently simultaneously thru Sunday ticket watching two different tv's.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 08:41 PM
48 and 69 iirc
Posted via Mobile Device

Routt was around 23 on the year and Carr was around 27 prior to the Baltimore game last time I asked him.

JASONSAUTO
10-13-2012, 08:45 PM
Routt was around 23 on the year and Carr was around 27 prior to the Baltimore game last time I asked him.

I think that was actually two Weeks ago.

He said em the other day.

I think he tried to use routt's number 69 and then wouldn't say carr's

I called him a little or whiny bitch and he said 48 iirc.

Search it. I can't on my phone
Posted via Mobile Device

FringeNC
10-13-2012, 08:53 PM
This team ran the ball 42 times and passed it 18 against Jacksonville in 2010. Seriously, I am on an iPad and still found it in less than a minute.

We threw the ball 4 times or something in the first half last week. It was a so "over the top" indictment of Cassel by Daboll. Not saying we'll be Air Quinn, but we resemble an NFL team. (By the way, the Jax R-P ratio was also an indictment of Cassel. Haley hated the MF'er.)

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:55 PM
Don't blame shift/throw insults and act like all I'm doing is playing a semantics game.

NFL teams don't gameplan the way we did against Baltimore unless they are totally trying to hide the quarterback and that was the point you refuted.

Shit, even the Baltimore players were saying it DURING THE GAME.

No that wasn't the point I refuted at all.

First, Fringe said he'd NEVER seen that kind of gameplay before. He obviously has or he hasn't been watching this team.

Second he said that Daboll did it it to spite Pioli's which is frankly laughable. I suppose Charlie Weis was flipping Pioli's the bird in 2010 too right?

I absolutely agree with you that this kind of gameplan is used to hide the quarterback. Of course, this is the first time you've said that in this thread.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 08:57 PM
Tell me the last time you heard an NFL official use the words "In the grasp" when they make the call?

They don't use that terminology any longer, it's either called the play dead or forward motion was stopped. The ref blew his whistle to supposedly protect the player, even though it has been stressed to them over the past few years to let the players play.

It's a coin flip, we could easily see a game this week where the same play is let played out. Hell, last year I was watching the exact same plays being called differently simultaneously thru Sunday ticket watching two different tv's.

I don't know that the refs have EVER used that terminology. But they call it EVERY WEEK and have for over 40 years. Sometimes they let them play, sometimes they don't. It's a judgement call but a bad call it was not.

htismaqe
10-13-2012, 09:00 PM
We threw the ball 4 times or something in the first half last week. It was a so "over the top" indictment of Cassel by Daboll. Not saying we'll be Air Quinn, but we resemble an NFL team. (By the way, the Jax R-P ratio was also an indictment of Cassel. Haley hated the MF'er.)

Weis was the OC in 2010. Either Haley hated Cassel or Weis did. You can't have that both ways.

And of course it's an indictment of Cassel. Pretty much every game is. But that's not what you said. You said the gameplan was designed as a message to PIOLI'S, which is silly. The gameplan was designed to try and win, which isn't possible if Cassel has to throw the ball.

FAX
10-13-2012, 09:01 PM
I would just like to say that Margot Kidder is, by far, the ugliest, scrawny-assed female ever born.

FAX

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 09:04 PM
I don't know that the refs have EVER used that terminology. But they call it EVERY WEEK and have for over 40 years. Sometimes they let them play, sometimes they don't. It's a judgement call but a bad call it was not.

Let me introduce you to my definition of a bad call. If a call can very well go either way, but in this instance goes against my team it is a bad call. Had they adhered to my definition we would have won last week. This week I'm assuming they will and will thereby keep my phone line free.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2012, 09:05 PM
I don't know that the refs have EVER used that terminology. But they call it EVERY WEEK and have for over 40 years. Sometimes they let them play, sometimes they don't. It's a judgement call but a bad call it was not.

Years ago they did use the term 'in the grasp'.

I remember this because my dad used to say 'in the grass' LOL

It was mostly used in the 80s. Not sure why they quit.

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 09:06 PM
I would just like to say that Margot Kidder is, by far, the ugliest, scrawny-assed female ever born.

FAX

Christopher Reeve is so going to fuck you up over that.

J Diddy
10-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Years ago they did use the term 'in the grasp'.

I remember this because my dad used to say 'in the grass' LOL

It was mostly used in the 80s. Not sure why they quit.

Because people were all "he's in the grass, hehe" and then take a bong hit.

BossChief
10-13-2012, 09:52 PM
No that wasn't the point I refuted at all.

First, Fringe said he'd NEVER seen that kind of gameplay before. He obviously has or he hasn't been watching this team.

Second he said that Daboll did it it to spite Pioli's which is frankly laughable. I suppose Charlie Weis was flipping Pioli's the bird in 2010 too right?

I absolutely agree with you that this kind of gameplan is used to hide the quarterback. Of course, this is the first time you've said that in this thread.

They ran the gameplan because they were forced to start Cassel and that was all they could do to win.

You were giving him shit for "never having seen that gameplan before" by saying "ive seen that at least a half dozen times in the last 18 months" both comments were hyperbole and I was just the guy to point it out. shoot me.

How is only throwing it 6 times in the first half NOT a slap in the face of Piolis hand chosen and handcuffed to the starting spot QB?...same goes for the Jacksonville game from 2010.

Both games are shouting as loud as a coach can "THIS QB IS TOTALLY WORTHLESS" by actions instead of words.

Even the announcers were like "if you dont trust him, put someone else in"

Charlie Weis and Haley BOTH didn't like Cassel and that was part of those tweets that were from first hand knowledge of the situation.

NJChiefsFan
10-13-2012, 10:11 PM
If there is ever proof of stats being misleading, the Chiefs offense is that proof. Numbers can not always be taken at face value.

Crush
10-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I would just like to say that Margot Kidder is, by far, the ugliest, scrawny-assed female ever born.

FAX

She was the Mark Castle to Superman's Tom Brady.

bevischief
10-13-2012, 10:44 PM
NO SHIT!

TEX
10-14-2012, 12:21 AM
FIRE PIOLI.

btlook1
10-14-2012, 12:40 AM
Great article!!!!

bevischief
10-14-2012, 05:31 AM
No shit. CP has been saying this years.

milkman
10-14-2012, 07:32 AM
I'm not with your tank the season to draft a quarterback philosophy. If we happen to lose so be it, but piss on that wanting it to happen. I know the quarterback position needs to be upgraded. Playing for the draft isn't the way to do it.

When the game is being played, I can not root against the Chiefs.

But when the games are over, and as the days pass through the week, I know, without question, the only way to fix the QB position is for this team to lose.

Through the week, I hope for losses, even though I can't actively root for those losses when the game is being played.

chiefzilla1501
10-14-2012, 07:48 AM
How many players have missed a whole week after a concussion because the doctors wouldn't clear them for practice? I don't think that's normal at all.

He isn't even cleared to practice without contract yet.

Seriously? Big Ben and Trent green missed several games. Colt McCoy. Revis. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Rausch
10-14-2012, 08:01 AM
Because they are swimming upstream, running a race with ankle weights, and competing in a beauty contest without makeup. Theyíre focused on the wrong things. This is the most frustrating kind of losing.

Even if the Chiefs fix what they think theyíre doing wrong, theyíll still be doing it wrong.

OUT-FUCKING-STANDING!

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/golf-clap.gif

Bob Dole
10-14-2012, 08:24 AM
Seriously? Big Ben and Trent green missed several games. Colt McCoy. Revis. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

The question was asked incorrectly. How many players have missed an entire week when there is no visible evidence that they hit their head?

King_Chief_Fan
10-14-2012, 08:31 AM
When the game is being played, I can not root against the Chiefs.

But when the games are over, and as the days pass through the week, I know, without question, the only way to fix the QB position is for this team to lose.

Through the week, I hope for losses, even though I can't actively root for those losses when the game is being played.

agree. However we are subject to the picks of Pioli. you can look at the previous first round picks he has taken and you can look at the QB's he brought in here.
Losing may not fix the QB problem with Pioli in charge

chiefzilla1501
10-14-2012, 08:32 AM
The question was asked incorrectly. How many players have missed an entire week when there is no visible evidence that they hit their head?

I still stand by my statement that we are really grasping at straws here. It's a pretty bold accusation to accuse a team and a player of covering up a concussion, especially when our evidence is so spotty.

Nor does it make any sense that Pioli, who knows his career depends on Cassel doing well, would allow Cassel to miss the Tampa game.

King_Chief_Fan
10-14-2012, 08:36 AM
I still stand by my statement that we are really grasping at straws here. It's a pretty bold accusation to accuse a team and a player of covering up a concussion, especially when our evidence is so spotty.

Nor does it make any sense that Pioli, who knows his career depends on Cassel doing well, would allow Cassel to miss the Tampa game.

I think Pioli might be changing his mind on that. His success is putting a QB in that can win games and go to the playoffs. Cassel can't do well enough at this point. He is done. Brady will be done as well in a couple of games. Pioli has to grasp at straws now

Count Zarth
10-14-2012, 08:39 AM
There IS visible evidence that he hit his head. He fucking got his helmet rammed into another helmet by a 400-pound beast fucker.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-14-2012, 08:41 AM
There IS visible evidence that he hit his head. He fucking got his helmet rammed into another helmet by a 400-pound beast fucker.

Yep, absolute visible evidence to boot. Crazy isn't it. People are friggin retarded around here.

chiefzilla1501
10-14-2012, 08:51 AM
The question was asked incorrectly. How many players have missed an entire week when there is no visible evidence that they hit their head?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/V63BEU1DW2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Easy 6
10-14-2012, 09:29 AM
Sam, keep this up and you'll be Mayor in no time.

Its pleasing to see that someone is carrying on with Dr. Blabbs research.