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buickboy71
10-28-2012, 05:30 PM
Shouldnt a 1st round wr be making a big impact by his sencond year? More Pioli fail!

Inmem58
10-28-2012, 05:31 PM
Shouldnt a 1st round wr be making a big impact by his sencond year? More Pioli fail!

He needs a QB lol

tredadda
10-28-2012, 05:31 PM
He needs a QB lol

And to get open

Inmem58
10-28-2012, 05:34 PM
And to get open

Hard to get open when his QB is on the ground or making a 3 yard completion. Cassel doesn't give him enough time for separation.

WV
10-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Your asking for one guy in the bottom level of the Titanic to help row?

aturnis
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Shouldn't Bowe or Breaston or even Jamaal Charles make an impact?

tredadda
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Hard to get open when his QB is on the ground or making a 3 yard completion. Cassel doesn't give him enough time for separation.

Somehow Bowe does though.

Inmem58
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Your asking for one guy in the bottom level of the Titanic to help row?

It's Baldwins fault why we're losing.

Inmem58
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Somehow Bowe does though.

Because he has more expierence lol.

aturnis
10-28-2012, 05:36 PM
Somehow Bowe does though.

Que? I haven't seen it.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-28-2012, 05:39 PM
It's a process.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-28-2012, 05:40 PM
When QB shits his pants at any kind of blitz, good luck

hometeam
10-28-2012, 05:52 PM
Yes Baldwin needs a QB. He also hasn't done jack shit to help himself. Pick your poisen.

Chiefs=Good
10-28-2012, 05:56 PM
Leave Baldwin aloooone. LEAVE HIM ALONE IM SERIOUS. LEAVE BALDWIN ALONE, RIGHT NOW! I MEAN IT!

Bump
10-28-2012, 05:57 PM
Baldwin = bust

ChiefButthurt
10-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Chiefs = bust

FYP

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-28-2012, 06:00 PM
FYP

Pioli = BUST.

gta0012
10-28-2012, 06:01 PM
The players just don't care. The coaching sucks, the play calling is horrendous. We need to clean house its not just one persons fault.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-28-2012, 06:05 PM
The players just don't care. The coaching sucks, the play calling is horrendous. We need to clean house its not just one persons fault.


Yes it is. See fat, balding, scungilli-eating fucklestick FTW.

notorious
10-28-2012, 06:13 PM
A few of us said that Baldwin didn't have seperation speed when he was drafted.


Well guess what, he doesn't now and he sucks ass.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-28-2012, 06:15 PM
A few of us said that Baldwin didn't have seperation speed when he was drafted.


Well guess what, he doesn't now and he sucks ass.

I didn't really have a dog in that fight, but if Pissholi picked him, well...

mcaj22
10-28-2012, 06:22 PM
i dont have a problem with Jon Baldwin or the player needed experience

I have a problem with how they (the FO/team) go about it.

-DRAFTING him and Pioli sells us on the idea that Baldwin and Julio Jones are very similar/the same skillset/play that will help us without giving up a bunch of picks to get the same value.

-SELLING THE FANBASE on propaganda. It was a month or two ago in august that i would check any training camp report or forum on how the team was doing and the biggest headlines feeding us EVERY DAY DURING CAMP WAS HOW JON BALDWIN WAS THE REAL DEAL BEAST MONSTER WARRIOR CATCHING EVERYTHING OUTJUMPING EVERYONE JUMPING OUT OF THE GYM. Every piece of media Pioli could sell this dude running around in shorts out trying everyone else got the fan base to buy into hype of a dude that hasnt done shit in the NFL.

and guess what, Pioli sells us on a dream. For the last four years. Hypes his players and picks up so the fanbase doesnt get upset as a buffer for when he lets players like Bowe walk. I have to watch a team that might have Baldwin replace Bowe, Stephenson replace Albert, etc

theelusiveeightrop
10-28-2012, 06:24 PM
Convinced Baldwin went to LSU.

dannybcaitlyn
10-28-2012, 06:26 PM
Somehow Bowe does though.

That's because cassel only makes two reads. Bowe and then check down.

chiefzilla1501
10-28-2012, 06:34 PM
That's because cassel only makes two reads. Bowe and then check down.

Then shit pants. Make third read to check pants after shitting.

So three reads.

chiefzilla1501
10-28-2012, 06:36 PM
By the way, I'm assuming we're talking about Alec. He is a terrible receiver.

jspchief
10-28-2012, 06:41 PM
Baldwin is a papercut on a team with multiple shotgun wounds.

notorious
10-28-2012, 06:42 PM
i dont have a problem with Jon Baldwin or the player needed experience

I have a problem with how they (the FO/team) go about it.

-DRAFTING him and Pioli sells us on the idea that Baldwin and Julio Jones are very similar/the same skillset/play that will help us without giving up a bunch of picks to get the same value.

-SELLING THE FANBASE on propaganda. It was a month or two ago in august that i would check any training camp report or forum on how the team was doing and the biggest headlines feeding us EVERY DAY DURING CAMP WAS HOW JON BALDWIN WAS THE REAL DEAL BEAST MONSTER WARRIOR CATCHING EVERYTHING OUTJUMPING EVERYONE JUMPING OUT OF THE GYM. Every piece of media Pioli could sell this dude running around in shorts out trying everyone else got the fan base to buy into hype of a dude that hasnt done shit in the NFL.

and guess what, Pioli sells us on a dream. For the last four years. Hypes his players and picks up so the fanbase doesnt get upset as a buffer for when he lets players like Bowe walk. I have to watch a team that might have Baldwin replace Bowe, Stephenson replace Albert, etc

In good business, you always undersale and overdeliver.


Pioli oversales and doesn't even show up.

buickboy71
10-28-2012, 07:00 PM
Im just saying that a first rounder should be targeted at the very least two or three times a game. He is such a non factor, which would be ok for say a fifth rounder but not a first. This happens game after game after game. One more huge fail on an awful team!

DBOSHO
10-28-2012, 07:02 PM
That's because cassel only makes two reads. Bowe and then check down.

Its really this easy to explain.

Marcellus
10-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Jamal Charles 1 yard today. Cut him.

Chiefs Pantalones
10-28-2012, 07:12 PM
I won't judge the rest of the talent on offense until we upgrade the QB position.

The Mayor
10-28-2012, 07:14 PM
I won't judge the rest of the talent on offense until we upgrade the QB position.

Guess we will never know how you feel about the rest of the offense then.

KCUnited
10-28-2012, 07:16 PM
Jamal Charles 1 yard today. Cut him.

Jamaal has a body of work, Baldwin's career peaked in his 2nd year camp.

Marcellus
10-28-2012, 07:21 PM
Jamaal has a body of work, Baldwin's career peaked in his 2nd year camp.

Jamal isn't totally dependent ona QB to get him the ball and the fact is the QB still kills his game. See the 2nd half of Baltimore game up through today for example.

Yet Baldwin is claimed to be a bust never having played on a decent offense with a decent QB since being drafted.

:hmmm:

KCUnited
10-28-2012, 07:24 PM
Jamal isn't totally dependent ona QB to get him the ball and the fact is the QB still kills his game. See the 2nd half of Baltimore game up through today for example.

Yet Baldwin is claimed to be a bust never having played on a decent offense with a decent QB since being drafted.

:hmmm:

Bowe went for a thousand with Croyle/Huard as a rookie.

mcaj22
10-28-2012, 07:25 PM
yea but then the argument is if Baldwin is so dependent on scheme, coaching, QB, etc then he should have never been picked in the 1st round

this team knew what it had, it has a QB that cant distribute. So they should have taken anyone else instead of a guy that the team makeup makes useless.

When will he be good? When Bowe leaves? With a rookie QB? Either way a ton of things have to happen for Baldwin to "maybe" work. And that takes time (more years), coaching changes, player changes, etc.

Hes dependent on so many things to have even any sort of impact and like someone said its more like a 4th or 5th rounder than a first.

It didnt help us any last year and it doesnt help us any this year. We will keep losing with him and thats the kind of picks we have gotten in the last 4 years.

The Mayor
10-28-2012, 07:25 PM
Baldwin doesn't seem to play hard. He should have broke that tackle today. I don't see much separation. He would probably be OK in a top ten offense when others can make him better.

I don't see Baldwin as a player who will ever make others around him better. First round successes do that.

Pablo
10-28-2012, 07:26 PM
I won't judge the rest of the talent on offense until we upgrade the QB position.LOL.

It's pretty easy to see the only guys who typically make plays when they get the ball in their hands are Bowe and Charles. That's it.

Baldwin caught a pass in the flat, had a CB a couple yards off him and tried to juke him instead of putting out a stiff arm and powering for a couple yards and a first down like Bowe would have. Just soft.

The Mayor
10-28-2012, 07:28 PM
LOL.

It's pretty easy to see the only guys who typically make plays when they get the ball in their hands are Bowe and Charles. That's it.

Baldwin caught a pass in the flat, had a CB a couple yards off him and tried to juke him instead of putting out a stiff arm and powering for a couple yards and a first down like Bowe would have. Just soft.

Exactly. He should have had that first down.

ThaVirus
10-28-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm comfortable calling Baldwin and Dorsey busts so far in their time here.

With that said, they both have talent and I think a change of scenery could prove them both to be good to pretty good players.

EDIT: Tyson Jackson is just a bust.

Marcellus
10-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Bowe went for a thousand with Croyle/Huard as a rookie.

I don't give a shit. What were the other options then? What where they please do tell.

People's inability to see that the recent teams are worse then those are amazing.

Keep in mind JC was riding the pine and doing nothing until LJ got into trouble again. This FO couldn't figure out JC was better until they HAD to dump LJ.

Believe he is a bust if you want but its disingenuous to talk abut how bad the coaching and QB's are and then say Baldwin has has his chance. It's dumb.

Count Alex's Losses
10-28-2012, 07:32 PM
He ran the wrong route today on that INT.

You know, in addition to doing jack fucking shit for the whole game.

He's terrible, and another Pioli bust.

KCUnited
10-28-2012, 07:34 PM
I don't give a shit. What were the other options then? What where they please do tell.

People's inability to see that the recent teams are worse then those are amazing.

Keep in mind JC was riding the pine and doing nothing until LJ got into trouble again. This FO couldn't figure out JC was better until they HAD to dump LJ.

Believe he is a bust if you want but its disingenuous to talk abut how bad the coaching and QB's are and then say Baldwin has has his chance. It's dumb.

Lol, ok, man.

Word in KC is the guy likes to practice the one hand, acrobatic grabs, but can't run a route or get separation to save his life.

Count Alex's Losses
10-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Again: good receivers, who have actually done something before in the NFL, have had success with Matt Cassel throwing the ball.

A short list:

Dwayne Bowe
Steve Breaston
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Chris Chambers (for 6 games in 2009).

Jon Baldwin is a piece of crap. At best, he's a below average NFL WR who might be OK with a HOF QB running the offense.

This guy was a first-round pick. He's a huge fucking bust.

Year of GoChiefs. Right about everything. Learn it, love it, live it.

Easy 6
10-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Put Baldwin, or definitely Bowe, on the disciplined Giants, or any other team currently playing with a good QB and modern NFL scheme, and they would be all the rage.

The offense under dumboll has been a new low, the 46 yarder to Bowe was blind luck, the throw seemed to be going to dexter... who was being used deep downfield, again... being outmuscled & falling down in his route at it, again.

Today was an indescribable failure... maybe there IS yet hope that Clark will see the light, he witnessed it... same as everyone else.

chiefzilla1501
10-28-2012, 07:35 PM
Lol, ok, man.

Word in KC is the guy likes to practice the one hand, acrobatic grabs, but can't run a route or get separation to save his life.

The word in Pittsburgh was that he's a hard worker.

But in the weight room, not on the practice field.

Dicky McElephant
10-28-2012, 07:38 PM
The word in Pittsburgh was that he's a hard worker.

But in the weight room, not on the practice field.

He had a shit QB in college as well. FFS....the dude went from Sunseri to Cassel.

gta0012
10-29-2012, 07:47 PM
I think it's one part coaching and one part Baldwin not giving a shit about this team. (which is hand in hand coaching/ownership/management)

Ffs jamal is Imo a top 5 talent at his position. He was given 5 attempts last weekend. Baldwin is at fault for not caring but it's also the staffs fault for scheming shit offense.

Put the ball in the hands of your playmaker, simple.

This house needs to be cleeeeeeaaaannned big time. Romeo won't make it till end of season pioli may but should be gone after, coordinators will be gone, players will not be resignedtraded/etc.

I do believe hunt will make the moves. Though I think he wants 1st overall just as bad as we do lol

chiefzilla1501
10-29-2012, 07:52 PM
He had a shit QB in college as well. FFS....the dude went from Sunseri to Cassel.

That's well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that he never improved his route running and he was known to be a pain in the ass on the practice field. I'm willing to see what he does with a better QB. But there are some real issues about whether the guy responds to coaching. I don't think he does. Even with a bad QB, you can improve your technique.

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-29-2012, 07:54 PM
To the OP... not many guys can excel with the shitfest we have at QB. Bowe is a vet now and very talented... imagine him with a good QB throwing to him. Charles excels because he doesn't need Cassel to do anything but not fumble the handoff. Baldwin is no Bowe plus he's never yet had a capable QB throwing to him. I'd about bet Baldwin could grow with a real team/real QB.

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-29-2012, 07:56 PM
I feel sorry for every reciever this team has had since Trent Green was QB. They haven't even had a chance.

aturnis
10-29-2012, 07:57 PM
Baldwin is a TERRIBLE fit for a Crennel led team. He needs pushed and mind ****ed, not coddled.

Chiefs=Good
10-29-2012, 07:57 PM
Baldwin was raw coming out. It was always going to take time. Hes also a deep threat. How exactly can you expect him to do what he does best when our qb wont pass it further than 10 yards. LEAVE HIM ALONE! I MEAN IT!!

Jive Ass
10-29-2012, 08:00 PM
Put Baldwin, or definitely Bowe, on the disciplined Giants, or any other team currently playing with a good QB and modern NFL scheme, and they would be all the rage.

The offense under dumboll has been a new low, the 46 yarder to Bowe was blind luck, the throw seemed to be going to dexter... who was being used deep downfield, again... being outmuscled & falling down in his route at it, again.

Today was an indescribable failure... maybe there IS yet hope that Clark will see the light, he witnessed it... same as everyone else.

Pretty much. This receiver core isn't represented very well. Bowe has shown everyone his potential despite that, and Baldwin has had some great moments, too.

Count Alex's Losses
10-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Baldwin has had some great moments, too.

When?

He had one good game last year.

And then was training camp stud this year.

He's a bust.

Easy 6
10-29-2012, 08:04 PM
jamal *He was given 5 attempts last weekend.

And really, not one single damn was given, why give Jamaal the Apache... ride the horse until it dies then eat it... treatment? no need to waste our singular, shiniest talent on this disgrace.

He's going to be one of the few prized players for the next regime to build around, 2012 is lost.

Make that turd hillis & the other guys bear the brunt.

Jive Ass
10-29-2012, 08:05 PM
When?

He had one good game last year.

And then was training camp stud this year.

He's a bust.

He hasn't proven himself.

?v=CSjhZWXhdjw&feature=related

?v=fo6u_0XahBc

He's had moments, though.

Count Alex's Losses
10-29-2012, 08:05 PM
So he's made two big catches, one of which didn't count.

http://i.minus.com/ibyqcGFRO0wCsI.gif

Jive Ass
10-29-2012, 08:07 PM
So he's made two big catches, one of which didn't count.

http://i.minus.com/ibyqcGFRO0wCsI.gif

Do you really want to argue about it? You asked when, I said he's had moments. I think he has potential and hasn't been given much of a QB to succeed. Could I be wrong? Totally. I think he's been decent, though.

Count Alex's Losses
10-29-2012, 08:08 PM
He hasn't been decent.

He's a ghost, who's best work this year has come in garbage time.

He's a bigger bust than McCluster, and that's saying a lot.

Jive Ass
10-29-2012, 08:08 PM
He hasn't been decent.

He's a ghost.

As you say.

Count Alex's Losses
10-29-2012, 08:12 PM
In what world is he not a ghost, dude?

He's not consistent whatsoever.

The majority of his yards come in garbage time.

He makes Samie Parker look good.

Stop being homers about Scott Pioli's players. Most of them suck.

Jive Ass
10-29-2012, 08:16 PM
In what world is he not a ghost, dude?

He's not consistent whatsoever.

The majority of his yards come in garbage time.

He makes Samie Parker look good.

Stop being homers about Scott Pioli's players. Most of them suck.

He's a second year player. His garbage time stats are in line Cassel's garbage time stats. I think there's a correlation there, and I think he deserves a chance with a legitimate QB.

chiefzilla1501
10-29-2012, 08:19 PM
He hasn't been decent.

He's a ghost, who's best work this year has come in garbage time.

He's a bigger bust than McCluster, and that's saying a lot.

I think McCluster has shown that he could be a good underneath receiver with a real QB that can actually stretch the field. Is it any coincidence that he had the 2 best games of his career with Orton at QB? 2 out of 3 games, McCluster was terrific.

I don't have as much faith in Baldwin. I think he plays like Randy Moss with a fraction of the athleticism. He doesn't know how to run routes. He's trying to run a straight line and use his athleticism and body control to make catches. Not saying you want from a WR who doesn't have elite athleticism.

bowener
10-29-2012, 08:26 PM
It's too bad Pioli doesn't hire a head coach that is known for pushing his WRs to be the best they are capable of being...

Count Alex's Losses
10-29-2012, 08:29 PM
I think McCluster has shown that he could be a good underneath receiver with a real QB that can actually stretch the field. Is it any coincidence that he had the 2 best games of his career with Orton at QB? 2 out of 3 games, McCluster was terrific.

No he wasn't. He was pretty average.

And he wasn't even playing wide receiver, which means it doesn't even correlate to what he is now.

He's great at catching 3 yard passes and never making a soul miss.

I actually went and looked up what he's done this year in terms of first downs, and he has 15. That's terrible for a WR with 27 catches.



I don't have as much faith in Baldwin. I think he plays like Randy Moss with a fraction of the athleticism. He doesn't know how to run routes. He's trying to run a straight line and use his athleticism and body control to make catches.

This, 100 percent. Mike Williams II.

BourbonMan
10-29-2012, 08:40 PM
A Wide Reciever is only as good your Quarter Back.
A Quarter Back is only as good as your Reciever.
A QB, WR, RB is only as good as your Offensive Line.....

In other words it takes a TEAM, not an INDIVIDUAL to win....JMO

chiefzilla1501
10-29-2012, 08:52 PM
No he wasn't. He was pretty average.

And he wasn't even playing wide receiver, which means it doesn't even correlate to what he is now.

He's great at catching 3 yard passes and never making a soul miss.

I actually went and looked up what he's done this year in terms of first downs, and he has 15. That's terrible for a WR with 27 catches.




This, 100 percent. Mike Williams II.

There's value in being the underneath guy. You have to get McCluster the ball in space. You can't go underneath anything when the entire defense is crowding the shallow stuff.

Get a new QB, and I think McCluster becomes a pretty effective underneath receiver. I don't think Baldwin will be anything more than a jump ball receiver.

ChiefsandO'sfan
11-01-2012, 10:58 PM
What a bust.

MotherfuckerJones
11-01-2012, 10:59 PM
Baldwins a joke. Cant run routes. He isnt fast. Cant get separation. And I dont care you dont chew out the QB. I know he sucks but the only one who can do that is DBowe and DMC because Matts trying to get them killed

MotherfuckerJones
11-01-2012, 11:00 PM
Baldwin's character concerns are coming into fruition. Awesome job Pioli

jd1020
11-01-2012, 11:01 PM
Baldwin's character concerns are coming into fruition. Awesome job Pioli

I'd be frustrated with a QB costing me millions too.

patteeu
11-01-2012, 11:20 PM
Baldinger on 610 was talking about how Cassel should basically be coming to blows with Baldwin in the locker room for the way he was challenging him on the field after that incomplete pass in the first part of the game.

Count Alex's Losses
11-01-2012, 11:20 PM
Did this guy play tonight? Couldn't tell.

Count Alex's Losses
11-01-2012, 11:20 PM
Baldinger on 610 was talking about how Cassel should basically be coming to blows with Baldwin in the locker room for the way he was challenging him on the field after that incomplete pass in the first part of the game.

I hope they get in a fistfight and suffer career-ending injuries.

Sure-Oz
11-01-2012, 11:21 PM
Baldwin is all talk and full of shit....

Mouthing off to the QB, you're a winner bro.

STFU and play

DJ's left nut
11-01-2012, 11:30 PM
Baldinger on 610 was talking about how Cassel should basically be coming to blows with Baldwin in the locker room for the way he was challenging him on the field after that incomplete pass in the first part of the game.

Cassel was bawling him out first.

If a shithouse QB like Cassel overthrew me by 10 yards and started lighting me up, I'd fire back at him as well.

Baldwin's probably done here, the damage done to his career has been too substantial. I still think he'll go on to have a good NFL career once he gets into a system that bothers to utilize a vertical passing game.

He's a poor man's Vincent Jackson.

mcaj22
11-01-2012, 11:31 PM
i told you he was a bum and a horrible pick

the last of you homers and defenders of shitty overrated overhyped fools gold players like this should finally start seeing the light

notorious
11-01-2012, 11:32 PM
Baldwin is slow, and can't get seperation.


**** him.

patteeu
11-01-2012, 11:39 PM
Cassel was bawling him out first.

If a shithouse QB like Cassel overthrew me by 10 yards and started lighting me up, I'd fire back at him as well.

Baldwin's probably done here, the damage done to his career has been too substantial. I still think he'll go on to have a good NFL career once he gets into a system that bothers to utilize a vertical passing game.

He's a poor man's Vincent Jackson.

I understand that the Cassel hate is intense, but that's no excuse for this line of reasoning. There's no excuse for a no-account player like Baldwin showing up the guy who has to be the team leader like that. You and I agree that Cassel sucks and has to go, but as long as he's in there no one should tolerate that kind of behavior from Baldwin.

DaneMcCloud
11-01-2012, 11:41 PM
He's a poor man's Vincent Jackson.

Right now, he's a poor man's Jon Baldwin

Reerun_KC
11-01-2012, 11:42 PM
A crybaby bust. He needs some Todd Haley time.

BossChief
11-01-2012, 11:44 PM
This is what a talented wide receiver looks like and acts like when the coaching staff is piss poor and doesn't offer leadership or structure and the qb is flat out terrible.

I'm gonna clean house on board bets next year when we have Geno Smith throwing Baldwin the rock.

DJ's left nut
11-01-2012, 11:45 PM
I understand that the Cassel hate is intense, but that's no excuse for this line of reasoning. There's no excuse for a no-account player like Baldwin showing up the guy who has to be the team leader like that. You and I agree that Cassel sucks and has to go, but as long as he's in there no one should tolerate that kind of behavior from Baldwin.

Cassel lost his team weeks ago. Cassel isn't a team leader.

Baldwin is as human as the rest of us. If you've spent as long as he has watching a guy like Cassel destroy this team, you're going to be prone to frustration as well.

Besides, your logic doesn't track. The fact that Baldwin is a 'no-account' player should be immaterial if the question is calling out the quarterback. If Baldwin can't do it because Cassel is the quarterback, then Bowe can't do it either because you're basing Cassel's infallibility on nothing more than his position.

If Bowe can do it, then you're allowing merit to enter the discussion. If it's a question of merit, not a single thing Cassel has ever done on a football field makes him above reproach when he starts to tear into another player.

If Cassel wants to get on him in the huddle, so be it. But when you're shouting at a guy 20 yards away from you, you'd damn well better expect to get something coming back unless you truly own that team.

Matt Cassel doesn't.

KCChiefsFan88
11-01-2012, 11:46 PM
Hard to accurately judge Baldwin considering he has 1) No QB and 2) No coaching

BossChief
11-01-2012, 11:46 PM
The kids frustration is obviously boiling over at this point and who can blame him?

Do I think the way he acted was ok? No
Do I think it's understandable for him to want to lash out at the guy that is ruining his career? Yes

mcaj22
11-01-2012, 11:52 PM
for him to be a "talented" wide receiver would mean has actually had some production in the NFL

and he hasnt. because hes fucking awful, it has nothing to do with the coaching and everything to do with the shitty pick.

face the facts. With a new coach and scheme, some of these guys, like Tyson Jackson, and Jon Baldwin are still going to be giant shitpiles

aturnis
11-01-2012, 11:53 PM
Hard to accurately judge Baldwin considering he has 1) No QB and 2) No coaching

:clap:

DaneMcCloud
11-01-2012, 11:55 PM
Hard to accurately judge Baldwin considering he has 1) No QB and 2) No coaching

Oh, come on, Dude. Chiefzilla told me that Nick Sirianni should be an offensive coordinator soon. How can he be a bad WR coach?

LMAO

The dumbassery around here never ceases to amaze me.

Brock
11-01-2012, 11:58 PM
I understand that the Cassel hate is intense, but that's no excuse for this line of reasoning. There's no excuse for a no-account player like Baldwin showing up the guy who has to be the team leader like that. You and I agree that Cassel sucks and has to go, but as long as he's in there no one should tolerate that kind of behavior from Baldwin.

If Cassel sucks and has to go, he doesn't really have room to bitch guys out on national tv.

KCChiefsFan88
11-02-2012, 12:00 AM
Oh, come on, Dude. Chiefzilla told me that Nick Sirianni should be an offensive coordinator soon. How can he be a bad WR coach?

LMAO

The dumbassery around here never ceases to amaze me.

Sirianni is fully part of the Chiefs Peter Principle University.

A guy whose only prior experience... at ANY LEVEL as a WR's coach was with the Indiana University... that would be Indiana University of Pennsylvania (A Division II school) is now suddenly qualified enough to be a WR's coach for the Chiefs after spending the past 3 years going on pizza runs for Haley.

patteeu
11-02-2012, 12:03 AM
Cassel lost his team weeks ago. Cassel isn't a team leader.

Baldwin is as human as the rest of us. If you've spent as long as he has watching a guy like Cassel destroy this team, you're going to be prone to frustration as well.

Besides, your logic doesn't track. The fact that Baldwin is a 'no-account' player should be immaterial if the question is calling out the quarterback. If Baldwin can't do it because Cassel is the quarterback, then Bowe can't do it either because you're basing Cassel's infallibility on nothing more than his position.

If Bowe can do it, then you're allowing merit to enter the discussion. If it's a question of merit, not a single thing Cassel has ever done on a football field makes him above reproach when he starts to tear into another player.

If Cassel wants to get on him in the huddle, so be it. But when you're shouting at a guy 20 yards away from you, you'd damn well better expect to get something coming back unless you truly own that team.

Matt Cassel doesn't.

No one should do it, but especially not a no-account player like Baldwin who was probably in the wrong in the first place. No matter who did it, Romeo should bench them and Cassel shouldn't tolerate it.

patteeu
11-02-2012, 12:04 AM
If Cassel sucks and has to go, he doesn't really have room to bitch guys out on national tv.

That's not an excuse for players calling out the QB who's in the game at any given time.

Micjones
11-02-2012, 12:05 AM
Baldwin's probably just a normal Wide Receiver.
Dwayne Bowe has spoiled us into believing #1 WR's come in and contribute right away.
Sometimes it takes a year or two for them to catch on.

Not ready to give up on him yet.
He still has a mountain of potential.

Brock
11-02-2012, 12:05 AM
That's not an excuse for players calling out the QB who's in the game at any given time.

I don't see anything wrong with players responding to a girl throwing a hissyfit, even if she is allegedly a QB.

patteeu
11-02-2012, 12:06 AM
I don't see anything wrong with players responding to a girl throwing a hissyfit, even if she is allegedly a QB.

OK, we'll just have to live with our disagreement.

KCChiefsFan88
11-02-2012, 12:10 AM
Baldwin should have represented the fans of KC and punched the shit out of Cassel.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2012, 12:12 AM
No one should do it, but especially not a no-account player like Baldwin who was probably in the wrong in the first place. No matter who did it, Romeo should bench them and Cassel shouldn't tolerate it.

I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that a team that has clearly made it its mission to make the QB a bit player should then have to defer to that quarterback.

This franchise clearly doesn't view QB as a leadership position. All we heard about was how Cassel was going to manage games and we would surround him with weapons and a defense that made it easy for him.

The franchise has marginalized the quarterback. This organization doesn't view the QB as a leader by virtue of his position, so why should any of its players be expected to?

When you neuter your QB, he's lost any teflon status that would come to him by virtue of his position. The franchise has taken great pains to establish that the QB is just another of the 53 men on this roster and as such, they have taken away any aura that comes with the job.

Matt Cassel, as the quarterback for this franchise, has no leadership credibility. He's earned none and the organization hasn't bothered to demand it (and in fact has actively attempted to deflect it).

Cassel, like Jones before him, overstepped his bounds himself. I couldn't give a large rats ass if someone exhibits some pride in his own right and fires back.

BossChief
11-02-2012, 12:24 AM
I know FOR A FACT that Baldwin isn't the only player that has wanted to lash out at Cassel both during and after a game. Cassel is a fucking oust that thinks it's ok to try and act like a leader of the team and therefore thinks he is in position to openly criticize the other players in front of the team in the lockerroom.

DaneMcCloud
11-02-2012, 12:25 AM
Baldwin's probably just a normal Wide Receiver.
Dwayne Bowe has spoiled us into believing #1 WR's come in and contribute right away.
Sometimes it takes a year or two for them to catch on.

Not ready to give up on him yet.
He still has a mountain of potential.

Julio Jones, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Roddy White and even Dwayne Bowe disagree.

Stop making excuses.

KCChiefsFan88
11-02-2012, 12:26 AM
I know FOR A FACT that abaldwin isn't the only player that has wanted to lash out at Cassel both during and after a game.

You'd need a space the size of the Astrodome to fit the # of players and fans who would love to beat the shit out Cassel.

BossChief
11-02-2012, 12:35 AM
Moeaki is a quiet guy that is quick to absorb responsibility and I have been told TWICE (by friends of his) this year that he said after games that he wanted to throw Cassel up against a locker because of how he NEVER takes the responsibility for turnovers in front of the team. Both were after games where Moeakis tips of poor passes lead to turnovers.

Cassel would basically tell the team that they needed to stop making those mistakes and take personal responsibility because they are costing the team games and Tony took those comments personally.

It's things like that that make teammates give minimal effort for the guy.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2012, 12:41 AM
Moeaki is a quiet guy that is quick to absorb responsibility and I have been told TWICE (by friends of his) this year that he said after games that he wanted to throw Cassel up against a locker because of how he NEVER takes the responsibility for turnovers in front of the team. Both were after games where Moeakis tips of poor passes lead to turnovers.

Cassel would basically tell the team that they needed to stop making those mistakes and take personal responsibility because they are costing the team games and Tony took those comments personally.

It's things like that that make teammates give minimal effort for the guy.

But, but, but....he's the quarterback.

You're supposed to eat his shit and like it. I know because that's what Al Pacino said in Any Given Sunday.

Cassel's just a fucking guy with a single digit number. He's a punter that takes snaps. Nobody has any respect for that dick and nobody should.

BossChief
11-02-2012, 12:44 AM
We should move him to tight end for the rest of the year and cut Oconnel.

Haha...but serious.

WV
11-02-2012, 01:08 AM
I don't care what anyone says, its too early and the QB play is to abysmal to accurately judge Baldwin. Hell we keep using Bowe as some sort of litmus, but the simple fact is that hes used to Cassels horrible ball placement and lack of accuracy. Baldwin produced in college with arguably worse QBs than Cassel at Pitt. I say he needs more time before hes labeled a bust. Sure hes not been good thus far, but name much that is this season.

BossChief
11-02-2012, 01:15 AM
You know what's sad?

We drafted Baldwin because Haley could take on that personality and get the most out of his talent...then we fired Haley.

We traded for Cassel because Pioli was in love...and we WILL fire Pioli.

We drafted Tyson Jackson because Pioli is an idiot...and Pioli will be gone.

We drafted Poe because Romeo would be able to coach him up...and Romeo will get fired sooner rather than later.

That leaves us with Berry and...HOPE that we hire the right guys this time or else we just drafted a lot of players with high picks that the coaches and GM they were drafted for will be gone by years end.

ThaVirus
11-02-2012, 01:22 AM
Anybody have footage of the exchange? I must have missed it.

NY CHIEF
11-02-2012, 07:30 AM
Hey it takes a few years to get used to catching passes that are 3 feet over your head or 1 inch off the ground.......

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 07:52 AM
Moeaki is a quiet guy that is quick to absorb responsibility and I have been told TWICE (by friends of his) this year that he said after games that he wanted to throw Cassel up against a locker because of how he NEVER takes the responsibility for turnovers in front of the team. Both were after games where Moeakis tips of poor passes lead to turnovers.

Cassel would basically tell the team that they needed to stop making those mistakes and take personal responsibility because they are costing the team games and Tony took those comments personally.

It's things like that that make teammates give minimal effort for the guy.

But, but...the team LOVES Matt. He's a swell guy.

Count Alex's Losses
11-02-2012, 08:00 AM
Moeaki is a quiet guy that is quick to absorb responsibility and I have been told TWICE (by friends of his) this year that he said after games that he wanted to throw Cassel up against a locker because of how he NEVER takes the responsibility for turnovers in front of the team. Both were after games where Moeakis tips of poor passes lead to turnovers.

Cassel would basically tell the team that they needed to stop making those mistakes and take personal responsibility because they are costing the team games and Tony took those comments personally.

It's things like that that make teammates give minimal effort for the guy.

This post should eliminate the idea that Cassel is, will be, or ever was a nice guy.

He's just another Patriot Way dick.

All the leaders from that tree are huge fucking assholes who think their shit doesn't stink.

Micjones
11-02-2012, 08:00 AM
Julio Jones, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Roddy White and even Dwayne Bowe disagree.

Stop making excuses.

Signed,

Hines Ward, Peerless Price, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Santana Moss, Marty Booker, Plaxico Burress, Laveranues Cole, Chad Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Steve Breaston, Justin McCareins, Javon Walker, and Jerrico Cotchery.

AussieChiefsFan
11-02-2012, 08:02 AM
Moeaki is a quiet guy that is quick to absorb responsibility and I have been told TWICE (by friends of his) this year that he said after games that he wanted to throw Cassel up against a locker because of how he NEVER takes the responsibility for turnovers in front of the team. Both were after games where Moeakis tips of poor passes lead to turnovers.

Cassel would basically tell the team that they needed to stop making those mistakes and take personal responsibility because they are costing the team games and Tony took those comments personally.

It's things like that that make teammates give minimal effort for the guy.ಠ_ಠ

WhiteWhale
11-02-2012, 08:12 AM
Baldwin has a bad habit of not running through his routes.

By doing this he 1. Makes it harder to catch the ball because when he breaks off his route he tries to jump for the catch #2. Because Baldwin can turn routine catches into circus catch attempts, he ends up on the ground afterwards.

Blame coaching, blame youth, or blame the QB, but right now Baldwin sucks mostly because of Baldwin.

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 08:13 AM
This post should eliminate the idea that Cassel is, will be, or ever was a nice guy.

He's just another Patriot Way dick.

All the leaders from that tree are huge ****ing assholes who think their shit doesn't stink.

Yep.

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 08:14 AM
Baldwin has a bad habit of not running through his routes.

By doing this he 1. Makes it harder to catch the ball because when he breaks off his route he tries to jump for the catch #2. Because Baldwin can turn routine catches into circus catch attempts, he ends up on the ground afterwards.

Blame coaching, blame youth, or blame the QB, but right now Baldwin sucks mostly because of Baldwin.

Last night's incident wasn't Baldwin stopping short on his route.

It was an option route, EXACTLY LIKE the one LAST WEEK, and Cassel read the coverage wrong. Just like he always does.

patteeu
11-02-2012, 08:16 AM
I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that a team that has clearly made it its mission to make the QB a bit player should then have to defer to that quarterback.

This franchise clearly doesn't view QB as a leadership position. All we heard about was how Cassel was going to manage games and we would surround him with weapons and a defense that made it easy for him.

The franchise has marginalized the quarterback. This organization doesn't view the QB as a leader by virtue of his position, so why should any of its players be expected to?

When you neuter your QB, he's lost any teflon status that would come to him by virtue of his position. The franchise has taken great pains to establish that the QB is just another of the 53 men on this roster and as such, they have taken away any aura that comes with the job.

Matt Cassel, as the quarterback for this franchise, has no leadership credibility. He's earned none and the organization hasn't bothered to demand it (and in fact has actively attempted to deflect it).

Cassel, like Jones before him, overstepped his bounds himself. I couldn't give a large rats ass if someone exhibits some pride in his own right and fires back.

It's a terrible habit to allow your players to get into. It doesn't matter how Matt Cassel makes you feel.

Zeke
11-02-2012, 08:26 AM
patteu, it's not indicative of the player at this point. It's the whole ****ing organization. The culture is fractured and volatile. The coaching sucks. The QB sucks, The GM Sucks, The players have given up.... Hell Romeo has even given up, it seems.

Yet pretty boy Hunt is still sitting on his thumbs, having someone else feed him with a silver spoon.

patteeu
11-02-2012, 08:30 AM
patteu, it's not indicative of the player at this point. It's the whole ****ing organization. The culture is fractured and volatile. The coaching sucks. The QB sucks, The GM Sucks, The players have given up.... Hell Romeo has even given up, it seems.

I completely agree. But just because none of us like Cassel as our QB, doesn't mean it's an excuse for chaos. I'm criticizing Baldwin in this case because he did something specific, not because I think he's the only problem or even one of the biggest problems on the team. There are much bigger problems, AFAIC, and they can be found in every corner of the organization.

WhiteWhale
11-02-2012, 08:31 AM
Last night's incident wasn't Baldwin stopping short on his route.

It was an option route, EXACTLY LIKE the one LAST WEEK, and Cassel read the coverage wrong. Just like he always does.

Okay, I can accept that as long as you can tell me what the coverage was, what Baldwin did that was right, and what Cassel did that was wrong.

Because on TV I can't see all of these things. All I'm certain of is that they weren't on the same page. One of them ****ed up and is an asshole.

If it was Baldwin, he should take his ass chewing like a man. If it was Cassel, he needs to stfu

Cassel had some miscommunication with Copper too, and Copper looked at him like "What the **** are you doing?!" This team has serious problems.

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 08:50 AM
Okay, I can accept that as long as you can tell me what the coverage was, what Baldwin did that was right, and what Cassel did that was wrong.

Because on TV I can't see all of these things. All I'm certain of is that they weren't on the same page. One of them ****ed up and is an asshole.

If it was Baldwin, he should take his ass chewing like a man. If it was Cassel, he needs to stfu

Cassel had some miscommunication with Copper too, and Copper looked at him like "What the **** are you doing?!" This team has serious problems.

Last weekend's play was high-low coverage. Baldwin was taking to stop and out option and Cassel threw it up for the corner route. It only became obvious that it was Cassel's fault because the ball was intercepted.

I can't say 100% for certain that last night was ALL Cassel's fault but given what I saw last week on nearly the same play, I'm going to give Baldwin the benefit of the doubt.

WhiteWhale
11-02-2012, 08:53 AM
Last weekend's play was high-low coverage. Baldwin was taking to stop and out option and Cassel threw it up for the corner route. It only became obvious that it was Cassel's fault because the ball was intercepted.

I can't say 100% for certain that last night was ALL Cassel's fault but given what I saw last week on nearly the same play, I'm going to give Baldwin the benefit of the doubt.

I missed the INT from last week, but thanks.

Cassel is just terrible, and as bad as he's playing I'm not sure he should be showing up anyone on the field like he did by shouting down Baldwin.

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 08:57 AM
I missed the INT from last week, but thanks.

Cassel is just terrible, and as bad as he's playing I'm not sure he should be showing up anyone on the field like he did by shouting down Baldwin.

Or Copper. I completely forgot about it until you mentioned it.

I find it hard to believe that EVERY WR we have on this roster runs the wrong route 1 or 2 times EVERY GAME.

Every rational examination of the evidence puts the blame right squarely on Cassel.

WhiteWhale
11-02-2012, 09:06 AM
Or Copper. I completely forgot about it until you mentioned it.

I find it hard to believe that EVERY WR we have on this roster runs the wrong route 1 or 2 times EVERY GAME.

Every rational examination of the evidence puts the blame right squarely on Cassel.

Well, a poorly coached and undisciplined team will do things like that too.

It literally looks like they don't even practice.

theelusiveeightrop
11-02-2012, 09:35 AM
Shouldn't Bowe or Breaston or even Jamaal Charles make an impact?


Impact? It's a process.