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La literatura
10-29-2012, 07:41 AM
Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-29-2012, 07:51 AM
Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

No, as a general rule always wait at least a year on a new OS. WIndows 7 is solid, why switch?

ZepSinger
10-29-2012, 07:53 AM
Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

I'm in a good position to wait until next year, when I plan to get a new touchscreen laptop with the OS. I do wonder about something tho- will the ability to use the touchscreen extend to working with programs like Photoshop or MS Office? I haven't heard yet...

Fish
10-29-2012, 08:02 AM
It's not too bad once you remove all the metro features. Not sure if it's worth the upgrade though...

Guru
10-29-2012, 08:15 AM
I got it for $15 but didn't upgrade.
Figure for that price I'll just wait until they work out all the bugs first.

HC_Chief
10-29-2012, 09:10 AM
No, as a general rule always wait at least a year on a new OS. WIndows 7 is solid, why switch?

One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

Saulbadguy
10-29-2012, 09:19 AM
I got it for $15 but didn't upgrade.
Figure for that price I'll just wait until they work out all the bugs first.

Where did you grab it for $15? Buying a new PC?

Guru
10-29-2012, 09:24 AM
Where did you grab it for $15? Buying a new PC?

Yep, upgraded by laptop last month.

htismaqe
10-29-2012, 11:20 AM
One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

Side by side tests of Windows 8 Consumer Preview with Windows 7 Enterprise beg to differ.

In fact, on my test machine, Windows SEVEN was slightly faster.

Braincase
10-29-2012, 11:32 AM
Side by side tests of Windows 8 Consumer Preview with Windows 7 Enterprise beg to differ.

In fact, on my test machine, Windows SEVEN was slightly faster.

I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

KILLER_CLOWN
10-29-2012, 11:56 AM
I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

What Vid card is in that? or what is the model number if you don't mind me asking.

htismaqe
10-29-2012, 02:44 PM
I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

LMAO

That's awesome.

Braincase
10-29-2012, 03:16 PM
What Vid card is in that? or what is the model number if you don't mind me asking.

Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

htismaqe
10-29-2012, 03:25 PM
Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

Is your usage profile "I press the power button and expect it to turn on"?

If so then yes, it wasn't built for you.

:D

Braincase
10-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Is your usage profile "I press the power button and expect it to turn on"?

If so then yes, it wasn't built for you.

:D

Yeah. I thought I was getting a bargain, but after a year and half the hinge cracked along the lid, all the way through the bezel. I still use it at work, but it's a stationary unit.

This new Precision is loaded for bear... but I had to load it up to get to a price point where it qualified for .99% financing. It'll be in service for at least five years.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

I know you probably don't game too much with it and I can't seem to find any reviews on the gaming performance for that chipset. I guess it's a fairly new chipset?

I have an Asus gaming laptop G73S that I was thinking of ugprading to a newer Laptop. It has an Nvidia 460m Graphics card in it and I haven't had any problems running games. I was wondering how that Video card compared as I haven't kept up lately with everything.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-30-2012, 12:31 AM
Windows 8 and why it's a desktop disaster
by Matthew Murray, 29 October, 2012

I sat staring at the screen, my emotions lodged somewhere between dumbfounded and despondent. From what I was seeing, I knew I'd made a horrific mistake, and restitution must be made immediately. I'd been told time and time again there was no going back; what's done is done, you have to accept it, there's no living in the past. But a violation this total demanded only one response from me.

I had to uninstall Windows 8, and I had to do it immediately.

What possessed me to put the latest version of Microsoft's flagship operating system on my home computer this past fateful weekend, I'll never know. To some extent, I'm sure, it was the persistent ministrations of my colleagues Michael Muchmore and Samara Lynn, who had been trying to sell me on Windows 8 for months. I'd dabbled in every major version since the Developer Preview, and never warmed to it, but I'd somehow succeeded in convincing myself that this time things would be different.

Yet the instant I saw my entire 1,920 x 1,200 monitor consumed with only the Windows 8 update notifications – the rest of the screen a field of white vast enough to drive Alaska to fits of murderous envy – it was clear I'd been drastically mistaken. Windows 8 is not, by any stretch of the imagination, for me. And it's time I stopped pretending otherwise.

Don't get me wrong: My feelings about it have evolved, and even softened, over the past year. At first I saw nothing of worth in this radical new spin on the tried-and-true Windows formula. But as I explored it on touch systems, rather than on my beloved (and – pardon me if I brag – insanely powerful) desktop PC, I began to discover some virtues in it. To my eye (and fingers), it's at least as good at driving such devices as iOS, and perhaps even better: It's slicker, livelier, and treats the user as more innately capable of making intelligent decisions.

More power still revealed itself when I did additional research. Being a big traditional computer guy, I live by the keyboard – and discovering and mastering Windows 8's myriad Windows key shortcuts increased and improved the level of my accomplishments. It was partially this experience, I think, that led me to believe that maybe I could deal with this on a 24/7 basis away from work.

Unfortunately, the disjointed time I'd spent with Windows 8 before did not prepare me for what using it at home would entail. After (an admittedly painless) installation, I was faced with the garish Start screen, loaded with apps that didn't interest me at all. I clicked on a couple to see how I'd respond to them. The Weather and Stock apps were pretty, no doubt – but did each one need to occupy upwards of two million pixels on my screen? Because all the Start apps open full-screen, too little information was looking much too big – and there's no way to change this.

Frustrated, I decided to check my Hotmail account (also the source of the Microsoft ID I entered while configuring Windows 8). I clicked on one new message, then another. The first wasn't marked read. Clicking on a third did mark the second one read, for some reason. I decided I wanted to file these, so I held down the mouse button and dragged the message just as on Outlook.com, but that didn't work as it had for some 17 years of Windows history. To move the message now, you have to click an icon on the bottom right of the screen to start the process; this is an unintuitive change whether you're using your finger or a mouse.

I was certain that Internet Explorer must be better. Launching it revealed the ITProPortal home page, centred on my enormous display, with gaping chasms of white on each side. Naturally, I couldn't resize the window. So I went to open a new tab. Except I couldn't do that, either: One browser window per screen.

I then fled to my safe haven, the Desktop – now treated just as any other app. No Start button, right. But I could launch Internet Explorer here. Finally! Separate windows! Tabs! Except... things didn't look very good. The smoothly elegant rounded glass of Aero has been replaced by sharp, unfriendly two-dimensional corners I was sure had gone the way of Microsoft Bob. I moved to use Windows key-D to show my bare desktop, but my finger slipped half a second too early and I was thrown back to Start.

From there, I decided maybe I should see the Control Panel. That shunted me back to the Desktop. Ditto Task Manager. Ditto any of several other deep-dive settings functions I use on a daily basis. But changing the image on the Start or Lock screens, or powering off the computer, could only be done through the new Windows 8 interface.

I gritted my teeth and endured it for as long as I could, the constant schizophrenic flipping between Start and Desktop environments propelling me ever nearer to total mental breakdown. When I decided to update a few apps from the Microsoft Store, and received the indication that wasted more 90 per cent of the screen, I knew it was time for this experiment to end. I wiped the hard drive, reinstalled Windows 7, and have not looked back since.

As I struggled to try to make sense of what was where, and more importantly why things were where they were, it became clearer than ever to me that Microsoft had never actually intended the Start screen and the Desktop to work together. So haphazard, so clunky, so confusing was everything, one could only conclude that all the company cared about was the touch market, and it was doing everything it could to discourage Desktop (and desktop) use once and for all.
Pushing past the present

Microsoft is not necessarily wrong for doing this. With tablets and other mobile systems increasing in popularity, any tech company should be courting them. And, as far as Windows 8 and its kid cousin, Windows RT, are concerned, ruling over the kingdom of touch is a real possibility. Although I'm not sure I can really say I've liked using Windows 8 on touch devices, I can absolutely say I haven't hated it.

Using it on anything else is another story. It makes everything I do more difficult. Michael and Samara have expounded at great length on what Windows 8 has to offer (see Michael’s review here), and I don't dispute much of what they have to say. But for people who want or need to use non-touch desktop or laptop computers in anything resembling the classic way, the learning curve isn't just steep – it's vertical. Windows 8 was not designed to be used that way, but I was shocked at just how unfriendly it was towards me and my way of working, and how unwelcome it made me feel for wanting to do things with minimal convolution.

I realise I'm not part of Microsoft's target audience anymore, but I still think power users like myself – I've been using Windows for 22 years – deserve better. If I've been using GUI-based operating systems for nearly three decades and this one regularly for over a year, and it still fails to suffice for basic tasks, there's something seriously wrong.

The danger Microsoft faces is also the danger it's scrupulously trying to avoid: The industry isn't the same as it once was. Phones and tablets may be taking over, but Microsoft's dominance is also threatened as it's never been before. Real alternatives are getting real attention, and they've never had a better opportunity to gobble up the people Microsoft is casting aside.

The latest versions of Mac OS X are far more usable and appealing than Windows 8. Many Linux distributions, starting with the well-known Ubuntu, have made rapid-fire about-faces in recent months to get themselves in shape to fill the vacuum Windows 8 has been creating. Both operating systems make multi-window multitasking a clean, smooth reality, acknowledging, as Microsoft will not, that most people still work that way.

Hope for us Windows lovers, however, is not necessarily lost. Microsoft has demonstrated some ability to learn from its mistakes and come back stronger. Nearly six years ago, Windows Vista fizzled upon its release, but was redeemed by a comprehensive service pack and then, within two and a half years or so, Windows 7. There's no reason it can't weave similar magic on 2012's deeply flawed OS.

But Microsoft must have the will to do so. If the future is touch, why should it waste time and resources considering how Windows 8 works with creaky keyboards and mice? What Microsoft has forgotten is that you can't get to the future without moving through the present. In trying to skip over today, the folks in Redmond have angered a lot of people – and wasted their time and monitor real estate just like they've wasted mine.

I've been forgiving of Microsoft's foibles and idiosyncrasies for a long time, but my patience has about run out. If Microsoft wants me to use Windows 8 or a touch system, it has to give me a concrete reason – and one boring app per screen ain't gonna cut it. Otherwise, I'll stick with Windows 7 – and maybe even dual-boot Linux with it at the same time. Those two operating systems together give me everything I need. Windows 8 doesn't come close. Worse still, it doesn't even try.

Published under license from Ziff Davis, Inc., New York, All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2012 Ziff Davis, Inc

Read more: http://www.itproportal.com/2012/10/29/windows-8-and-why-its-a-desktop-disaster/#ixzz2AlGq0rlX

htismaqe
10-30-2012, 06:10 AM
That review echoes my thoughts almost exactly, especially the toggling back and forth between Metro and the desktop.

I said several times that the new Start menu felt like a bolt-on and that the overall integration was poor.

Saulbadguy
10-30-2012, 06:15 AM
I don't see an overwhelming reason to upgrade at this point - and i'm an early adopter. I upgraded day 1 with W7, Vista, XP, 2000...

Braincase
10-30-2012, 06:16 AM
I know you probably don't game too much with it and I can't seem to find any reviews on the gaming performance for that chipset. I guess it's a fairly new chipset?

I have an Asus gaming laptop G73S that I was thinking of ugprading to a newer Laptop. It has an Nvidia 460m Graphics card in it and I haven't had any problems running games. I was wondering how that Video card compared as I haven't kept up lately with everything.

Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

htismaqe
10-30-2012, 01:47 PM
So I just had a discussion with a customer about Surface, RT, and Windows 8. They're a BIG fan and say they much prefer Microsoft's solution vs. the iPad and Android. Why?

Because it runs all the shit they already run. That's the pitch, right there.

Great new features? Maybe. But it runs Office!

I've come to realize that most of our discussion is misplaced. Of course the potential $1200 price tag is too high - for a HOME USER.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

So it will run a bit slower than my 460M but have newer features obviously since it's 2 or 3 generations ahead. Thanks for the link. The only thing I don't like about my Asus G73S is the size, it's rather bulky to carry around with the 17" screen.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-01-2012, 11:04 AM
I don't see an overwhelming reason to upgrade at this point - and i'm an early adopter. I upgraded day 1 with W7, Vista, XP, 2000...

I really like Windows 7, the only real negative is the WINSXS directory which grows by the day. It seems the most stable MS operating system to date.

Jive Ass
11-01-2012, 11:29 AM
I made the switch. I wanted to reformat, anyway. It just seemed like a good time to try something new, especially since I never really make OS switches early on.

After installation, I would say in getting used to going back and forth between Metro and the desktop, I actually find myself utilizing most of the search functions and accessing programs much quicker than on Windows 7.

I can't say the switch was hiccup free, as I had quite a few things to tweak to my liking, but I'm not upset about the switch in any way. It's fast as hell, as someone mentioned.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

here is a link to my current vid card

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-460M.33612.0.html

DDR5 as opposed to DDR3. Oh and btw thanks for the link to that site, I have been looking for a site like that for a while.

Braincase
11-01-2012, 01:03 PM
I made the switch. I wanted to reformat, anyway. It just seemed like a good time to try something new, especially since I never really make OS switches early on.

After installation, I would say in getting used to going back and forth between Metro and the desktop, I actually find myself utilizing most of the search functions and accessing programs much quicker than on Windows 7.

I can't say the switch was hiccup free, as I had quite a few things to tweak to my liking, but I'm not upset about the switch in any way. It's fast as hell, as someone mentioned.

The Ultimate List of Windows 8 Keyboard Shortcuts (http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-8-keyboard-shortcuts-global-list)

They do come in handy.

Jive Ass
11-01-2012, 01:56 PM
They really do. Also, activating GodMode should rid any of the woes others feel by having to search around for the locations of some of these settings. That being said, if you're comfortable on Windows 7, the only thing you're gaining from the switch is the speed. If you're not really into a separate interface for apps like Netflix, Kindle, media, etc. then you'll probably just get annoyed.

htismaqe
11-01-2012, 09:04 PM
They really do. Also, activating GodMode should rid any of the woes others feel by having to search around for the locations of some of these settings. That being said, if you're comfortable on Windows 7, the only thing you're gaining from the switch is the speed. If you're not really into a separate interface for apps like Netflix, Kindle, media, etc. then you'll probably just get annoyed.

On my PC windows 8 was not faster.

Having to drop to desktop to run non-integrated apps was a major drawback (although somebody said Google Chrome is now fixed).

MoreLemonPledge
11-01-2012, 09:18 PM
I've actually read quite a few positive reviews, much more so than negative ones.

I enjoy it quite a bit. Yes, there's a learning curve, but once you get past the fact that it's different, you'll see that the changes actually make sense for the most part. The switching between Metro/Start and Desktop can be a bit jarring initially, but it's really not that bad. It should work really well on a tablet.

I should admit that I have a Windows Phone and Xbox 360, so this Metro styling is quite familiar to me already. Regardless, once you get over the fact that it's different, you can begin to appreciate the innovations.

Jive Ass
11-01-2012, 09:51 PM
On my PC windows 8 was not faster.

Having to drop to desktop to run non-integrated apps was a major drawback (although somebody said Google Chrome is now fixed).

Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

Pushead2
11-01-2012, 10:24 PM
I'm thinking about upgrade but to be honest, I'm waiting for a "sold" moment where I'll be like - okay I'm in.

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 07:07 AM
Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

Clean install on a separate HDD that had previously been with wiped all 1's and formatted NTFS as part of the Win 8 install.

I was using Consumer Preview (I believe the build was 8250, but can't recall for sure).

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 07:09 AM
I've actually read quite a few positive reviews, much more so than negative ones.

I enjoy it quite a bit. Yes, there's a learning curve, but once you get past the fact that it's different, you'll see that the changes actually make sense for the most part. The switching between Metro/Start and Desktop can be a bit jarring initially, but it's really not that bad. It should work really well on a tablet.

I should admit that I have a Windows Phone and Xbox 360, so this Metro styling is quite familiar to me already. Regardless, once you get over the fact that it's different, you can begin to appreciate the innovations.

That's really my complaint.

On a tablet or touchscreen, it would be great.

On a regular desktop, Metro is completely superfluous. It doesn't really make anything more convenient at all.

And if you're using an app that isn't written for Windows 8, you have to drop out of Metro to desktop anyway.

Braincase
11-02-2012, 07:58 AM
I'm going to get a tablet, I just need to wait on the Windows 8 Pro systems to ship next month. I still have a thing for the ASUS TaiChi.

MoreLemonPledge
11-02-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm going to get a tablet, I just need to wait on the Windows 8 Pro systems to ship next month. I still have a thing for the ASUS TaiChi.

Get the Surface. It's a pretty nice piece of hardware.

HC_Chief
11-02-2012, 10:18 AM
Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

I did an upgrade and it is smoking fast... faster than W7.

Lenovo W520, i7, 16GB RAM, SSD :D

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 10:33 AM
Here's something interesting.

All of you guys that are saying it's faster than Win 7 are running Intel-based platforms, mostly I7, with quite a bit of RAM. Are you running 64 or 32-bit?

I only had a copy of 32-bit Windows 7 Enterprise to test with so I was running 32-bit Windows 8 consumer preview on an AMD Athlon dualcore platform with only 4GB of RAM.

Windows 7 was definitely faster by a small margin.

HC_Chief
11-02-2012, 11:11 AM
Here's something interesting.

All of you guys that are saying it's faster than Win 7 are running Intel-based platforms, mostly I7, with quite a bit of RAM. Are you running 64 or 32-bit?

I only had a copy of 32-bit Windows 7 Enterprise to test with so I was running 32-bit Windows 8 consumer preview on an AMD Athlon dualcore platform with only 4GB of RAM.

Windows 7 was definitely faster by a small margin.

64-bit OS EntEd
32-bit Office 2010 & 2013 Pro

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 11:28 AM
64-bit OS EntEd
32-bit Office 2010 & 2013 Pro

Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

HC_Chief
11-02-2012, 12:08 PM
Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

Probably; also helps that the interface is greatly simplified so fewer resources needed for the GUI.

I LOVE the desktop search functionality. Much better than a start menu (or any menu, for that matter). It is so nice to be able to start typing and it lists your apps.

The Desktop drives me nuts. I do not like having a Start screen and a Desktop. I don't get why it was done that way; especially since you cannot "skin" your OS to one or the other, exclusively. At least is is easy to switch: hit Windows key or click/swipe in left corner.

Fish
11-02-2012, 12:34 PM
Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.

Now here’s the key difference for Windows 8: as in Windows 7, we close the user sessions, but instead of closing the kernel session, we hibernate it. Compared to a full hibernate, which includes a lot of memory pages in use by apps, session 0 hibernation data is much smaller, which takes substantially less time to write to disk. If you’re not familiar with hibernation, we’re effectively saving the system state and memory contents to a file on disk (hiberfil.sys) and then reading that back in on resume and restoring contents back to memory. Using this technique with boot gives us a significant advantage for boot times, since reading the hiberfile in and reinitializing drivers is much faster on most systems (30-70% faster on most systems we’ve tested).

It’s faster because resuming the hibernated system session is comparatively less work than doing a full system initialization, but it’s also faster because we added a new multi-phase resume capability, which is able to use all of the cores in a multi-core system in parallel, to split the work of reading from the hiberfile and decompressing the contents. For those of you who prefer hibernating, this also results in faster resumes from hibernate as well.

More: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/08/delivering-fast-boot-times-in-windows-8.aspx

Win8 also uses EUFI instead of BIOS on EUFI capable mobos. If you have a EUFI supported mobo, that alone will reduce boot time by quite a bit.

EUFI: http://gcn.com/articles/2012/10/31/say-goodbye-bios-hello-uefi.aspx

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.

That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Fish
11-02-2012, 01:01 PM
That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Well in my experience, Win8 does boot faster on a wide variety of machines. And that seems to be the overwhelming consensus from everywhere else too. Googling Windows 8 boot time shows just about every link reporting faster boot times. There are even reports that running Win8 on a SSD boots so fast that you only have 200ms to hit F8 if you want Safe Mode, and it's not enough time for most people to catch it. That's part of the reason MS introduced the Boot Options within the OS.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Boot-Time-Too-Fast-BIOS-Boot-Options,15738.html

HC_Chief
11-02-2012, 01:33 PM
That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Could be crap in the startup slowing you down. Once you're in W8, launch Task Manager and switch to the Startup tab. Disable the crap you don't need at startup there. It can make a HUGE difference in boot times (this holds true for W7 as well)

htismaqe
11-02-2012, 01:49 PM
Could be crap in the startup slowing you down. Once you're in W8, launch Task Manager and switch to the Startup tab. Disable the crap you don't need at startup there. It can make a HUGE difference in boot times (this holds true for W7 as well)

Yeah, I hadn't done any real tweaking. Does that mean that by default, Windows 8 has more "crap" in startup?

KILLER_CLOWN
11-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Well in my experience, Win8 does boot faster on a wide variety of machines. And that seems to be the overwhelming consensus from everywhere else too. Googling Windows 8 boot time shows just about every link reporting faster boot times. There are even reports that running Win8 on a SSD boots so fast that you only have 200ms to hit F8 if you want Safe Mode, and it's not enough time for most people to catch it. That's part of the reason MS introduced the Boot Options within the OS.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Boot-Time-Too-Fast-BIOS-Boot-Options,15738.html

I reboot my machine every 4-7 days, so waiting 30 seconds isn't that big of a deal to me.

HC_Chief
11-02-2012, 06:15 PM
Yeah, I hadn't done any real tweaking. Does that mean that by default, Windows 8 has more "crap" in startup?

I don't think so. The list on my laptop looked similar to what was listed in W7 (not surprising, as I performed an upgrade).

Just something to test.

Fruit Ninja
11-22-2012, 11:52 PM
Finally installed windows 8 and my computer is like not 2-4 years old, its been a while since i upgraded and windows 8 is running faster then windows 7 so far. I only have 4 gigs of ram and so far apps are popping up very very fast. Its pretty impressive so far.

Anyways, i dont mind switching since its so damned easy to do. Also, i did a clean install.

RippedmyFlesh
11-23-2012, 01:51 PM
[quote=KC Fish;9077512]Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.



Does disconnecting power(pull battery and power cord) get you to the point that someone could F8 at start up ?
I am thinking of a machine that has issues like malware.

Fish
11-23-2012, 02:03 PM
Does disconnecting power(pull battery and power cord) get you to the point that someone could F8 at start up ?
I am thinking of a machine that has issues like malware.

You can still F8 at startup just like you've always been able to. That feature is still the same. The only difference there is that the amount of time you have to hit F8 before it continues to boot has been greatly reduced. It works the same way, it's just infinitely faster now.

JASONSAUTO
11-23-2012, 02:12 PM
Fish unrelated but you are the man on this...

My little one wants an I pad. Momma has the four, grandma has the three. She uses both but she is young and I'm thinking about the two with 16 gig. Is that enough for a young girl. Probably would put games on it she doesn't download movies or anything like that at this point
Posted via Mobile Device

RippedmyFlesh
11-23-2012, 02:16 PM
You can still F8 at startup just like you've always been able to. That feature is still the same. The only difference there is that the amount of time you have to hit F8 before it continues to boot has been greatly reduced. It works the same way, it's just infinitely faster now.

Ty.
I've used it a little at work but will wait until I get new hardware at home before I try it. I never buy new computers for myself I always just piece together rigs from left over parts on jobs I have done. When I do break down and by some decent hardware I will use it at home.

Fish
11-23-2012, 02:29 PM
Fish unrelated but you are the man on this...

My little one wants an I pad. Momma has the four, grandma has the three. She uses both but she is young and I'm thinking about the two with 16 gig. Is that enough for a young girl. Probably would put games on it she doesn't download movies or anything like that at this point
Posted via Mobile Device

Absolutely. Unless you're planning on storing a bunch of movies or music on it, go for the 16GB for sure. The biggest games available for iPad are around 500-700MB. But most are much much smaller. My girl is 7, and she uses my iPad a great deal. Especially on road trips and such. Took her about 30 seconds to figure out navigation and apps. I have the 32GB model. That allows me to store about a dozen kids movies and a couple seasons of Phineas and Ferb and Scooby Doo, about 100 games, education apps, and interactive books, and I still have 7GB of free space on it.

Honestly, I think the iPad2 is still the best model. I'm a bigger fan of it than the new one.

JASONSAUTO
11-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Absolutely. Unless you're planning on storing a bunch of movies or music on it, go for the 16GB for sure. The biggest games available for iPad are around 500-700MB. But most are much much smaller. My girl is 7, and she uses my iPad a great deal. Especially on road trips and such. Took her about 30 seconds to figure out navigation and apps. I have the 32GB model. That allows me to store about a dozen kids movies and a couple seasons of Phineas and Ferb and Scooby Doo, about 100 games, education apps, and interactive books, and I still have 7GB of free space on it.

Honestly, I think the iPad2 is still the best model. I'm a bigger fan of it than the new one.
Mine is 7 also. She does all kinds of stuff on moms and grandmas. Thanks a ton, man. That's what I'm going with.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
11-23-2012, 02:38 PM
Plus moms four is a 32. If we need some extra space.she doesn't use anywhere near that much at this point.
Posted via Mobile Device

GloryDayz
11-24-2012, 06:36 PM
Since everything was headed the Win8 way, I did the $15 upgrade to the son's computer. Had some issues, but those were some quality hours spent with people in India.... ALPS Touchpad Utility wouldn't come out, and Win8 wouldn't load until it did! Camera didn't work until Dell Software was removed. And after a mere 4 months, Dell doesn't bother to tell you the Trend Micro won't work. At least that upgrade was free.

Over all, it is what it is. It is faster. It's a new interface, but hey, so was the first time I tried a Mac. It's not that hard.

I do hate how everything is tied to a Microsoft account. Seems very Mac-like! I'll figure ways around that too!

As for the Metro Start screen, Meh, it's fine. For those saying it causes cancer, haters are gonna hate!

It was worth $15 buck. And I'm sure a high school kid will love it.

Count Zarth
11-24-2012, 09:08 PM
Sounds horrible. My computer is fast enough.

ArrowheadHawk
12-08-2012, 04:47 PM
Upgraded my laptop today. So far I like it. Seems to run faster. I have to get used to a few new things though. I also installed Office 2013 at the same time which is pretty cool also.

Deberg_1990
12-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Just upgraded an old Dell pc to win 8 today. It's 5 years old and only has 2 gig of ram. Seems to run just fine so far. It will take some getting used to though. Anyone have a link for a tutorial or tips and tricks?
Posted via Mobile Device

Unsmooth-Moment
12-08-2012, 06:22 PM
I like it so far. Haven't gotten to dig in too deep yet, but I like the interface.

KCWolfman
12-08-2012, 07:55 PM
If your pc starting faster is worth the cost, then yes. If not, no. It is just like having widgets on an android phone. I find myself flipping to desktop every time I sign on.

KCWolfman
12-08-2012, 07:59 PM
That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Weird, I boot in less than 20 seconds. It was taking almost 1 minute and 20 seconds under Windows 7. Honestly, it just isn't that important to me though.

kcfanXIII
12-08-2012, 11:49 PM
i'm a student right now, and using office 2010. what are some of these upgrades i'm hearing about with office 2013?

Braincase
12-09-2012, 08:30 AM
Looks like the office is going to pick up a Microsoft Surface Pro for me to use in class, once they become available next month. I'm looking forward to it.

Fish
12-09-2012, 10:44 AM
Looks like the office is going to pick up a Microsoft Surface Pro for me to use in class, once they become available next month. I'm looking forward to it.

:thumb:

Job perks like that are awesome..

bevischief
12-09-2012, 10:47 AM
I don't like it.

DaFace
12-09-2012, 10:56 AM
I got a new lappy that came with Win8 a few weeks ago. They've made some nice incremental improvements to the core OS that I like just fine. All the "surface" shit is obnoxious. I added a third-party app to give me back my start menu, and it's fine.

Buck
12-12-2012, 07:53 AM
I got a new lappy that came with Win8 a few weeks ago. They've made some nice incremental improvements to the core OS that I like just fine. All the "surface" shit is obnoxious. I added a third-party app to give me back my start menu, and it's fine.

Please tell me which one. I can't stand the dashboard.

DaveNull
12-12-2012, 05:22 PM
It's called install.exe. You can find it on your Windows 7 disc.

DaFace
12-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Please tell me which one. I can't stand the dashboard.

I'm using Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). You can try it for 30 days free, and it's $5 to buy. It seems to work pretty well, but for some reason the text gets all screwy on mine (faded to the point you can't see it) if I don't restart for a long time. It's livable, but annoying.

I think there are a few others out there, but that one seems to be the closest to completely replicating the old start menu's functionality directly.

Fish
12-12-2012, 09:29 PM
I suggest RetroUI. Sounds very similar to DaFace's suggestion, but it's the one I use and it works great. Also $5, but worth it. $5 gets 3 licenses.

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-completely-remove-metro-ui-from-windows-8/

Fish
12-12-2012, 09:32 PM
Here's how to manually disable most of Metro.. You still have to fiddle with some file associations so they don't open in Metro apps, but it helps quite a bit for free..

http://techmell.com/how-to/disable-metro-ui-windows-8/

Guru
12-13-2012, 02:42 AM
Why M$ didn't set up the system to run with or without Metro in the first place is baffling to me. Why take away the one thing that was WINDOWS in the Start button. From everything I have seen, unless you have a touch screen monitor, there is absolutely no use for Metro at all. Hell, even with a touch screen monitor, who the hell wants to reach across to their monitor every time they want to do something.

Miles
12-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

DaFace
12-14-2012, 12:06 AM
Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

That doesn't go away. They just outright fucked up. There's already talk of M$ putting the start menu back in in a future service pack. It's that bad.

Fruit Ninja
12-14-2012, 01:16 AM
lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 06:24 AM
lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

Multitasking is virtually impossible.

ArrowheadHawk
12-14-2012, 08:05 AM
Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

loochy
12-14-2012, 08:11 AM
Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

It's not always good either.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:15 AM
Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

DaFace
12-14-2012, 08:36 AM
lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.

KCWolfman
12-14-2012, 09:05 AM
Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

That's what I do. I still get the benefits of the fast startup and use my old 7 style desktop.

KCWolfman
12-14-2012, 09:05 AM
Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

Yeah, the drawn password thing is ridiculous for a desktop without a touch sensitive screen.

penguinz
12-14-2012, 12:27 PM
I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.Just start typing the name of the app and it comes up. No need to scroll and hunt.

DaFace
12-14-2012, 12:30 PM
Just start typing the name of the app and it comes up. No need to scroll and hunt.

...or I could just use the old start menu and find what I need in two clicks.

penguinz
12-14-2012, 12:41 PM
...or I could just use the old start menu and find what I need in two clicks.Or you can learn to adapt to a faster method. ;) Using the mouse to hunt and click is time consuming.

DaFace
12-14-2012, 12:45 PM
Or you can learn to adapt to a faster method. ;) Using the mouse to hunt and click is time consuming.

I suppose if you have trouble with the concept of alphabetization, you're right. :p

Fruit Ninja
12-14-2012, 06:50 PM
I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.

if you click on the right corner and hit the search button EVERYTHING pops up. ALl your apps/programs and everything. Imo,i think its faster then the start button menu. Maybe not by much, but its faster and everything is there you need.

Miles
12-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

Yeah its just really goofy to have two completely different interfaces like this. I keep wondering what I am supposed to do with the tablet like apps with a laptop.

This touchpad swipe to toggle between the desktop and metro is also driving me nuts. Need to shut it off.

TomSlash
12-16-2012, 01:45 AM
One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

makes your screen look like a fisher price though boy!

Pushead2
12-17-2012, 02:42 AM
I'm still not sold on updating.

Miles
01-01-2013, 03:04 PM
I am now fully in the corner of those that hate the metro interface. Seems like a great OS for speed but the tablet portion of the OS is obnoxious as hell for a laptop.

Vegas_Dave
01-01-2013, 03:21 PM
I am now fully in the corner of those that hate the metro interface. Seems like a great OS for speed but the tablet portion of the OS is obnoxious as hell for a laptop.

I thought this as well when testing beta versions. However, the final version I think is much better, especially with the touch pad features enabled. Still takes a little getting used to though.

I do think that for a touch screen setup that Windows 8 is pretty stellar. I bought a budget closeout all in one gateway for Christmas that had a Windows 7 touch screen (2 point touch rather than Windows 8 preferred 5 point) that I upgraded to 8 and it is a great machine now where it was only ok with 7.

I still don't like 8 for a traditional desktop though that only has a keyboard and mouse.

Guru
01-11-2013, 05:20 AM
Any more converts? I have had my copy for 2 months now but still haven't installed it.

htismaqe
01-11-2013, 07:59 AM
I got a copy of Windows 7 Pro yesterday for $55.

Thank God for Windows 8! :)

mikeyis4dcats.
01-11-2013, 08:07 AM
I read an article the other day calling Win8 the new Vista.

DaFace
01-11-2013, 08:40 AM
I read an article the other day calling Win8 the new Vista.

I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

Saulbadguy
01-11-2013, 08:41 AM
I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and buy Windows 8 for $39.99 - but just hold on to the license for now until there is a reason to upgrade.

htismaqe
01-11-2013, 08:54 AM
I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

This.

DaFace
01-11-2013, 09:18 AM
I do have to say...it's crazy how consistent Microsoft is when it comes to quality releases vs. crap releases. They basically put out a release with all sorts of half-assed new ideas that don't work very well, then fix them all a couple years later.

Windows 95 - Innovative, but buggy
Windows 98 - Not many changes, but much more stable
Windows ME - Pure crap / Windows 2000 - Compatibility issues
Windows XP - Most stable OS yet and few compatibility issues
Windows Vista - Ultra shitty performance
Windows 7 - Runs great
Windows 8 - Shitty integration of Metro UI
Windows 9 - (I bet it'll be much more cohesive by that point)

kaplin42
01-11-2013, 09:26 AM
Some things that may help.

Think of the metro as the new start menu (and for god's sake type the name of the program you want. Hell even in 7 and Vista this was faster than clicking)

Learn some keyboard shortcuts (there is an app for that) such as Windows Key + M to go to the desktop. Windows Key to go back to the metro.

And I didn't read the entire thread, so this may be mentioned already but if you absolutely cannot stand metro, try this Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). It will bring back the traditional windows desktop and start menu. This will work for people who are running 8 on laptops or desktops without touchscreens.

I will say that I hate the IE app from the metro and use IE from the desktop. I have a Surface RT so no other browsers yet.

Saulbadguy
01-11-2013, 09:28 AM
I rarely use the start menu. I don't see why people are so butthurt about that.

DaFace
01-11-2013, 09:32 AM
I rarely use the start menu. I don't see why people are so butthurt about that.

Just personal style, I suppose. I use it all the time.

Deberg_1990
01-11-2013, 10:45 AM
I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

Yea, im not sure why MS didnt have a seperate OS for tablets and desktops? I feel like Win8 is some sort of strange hybrid/bridge OS.

kaplin42
01-11-2013, 11:41 AM
Yea, im not sure why MS didnt have a seperate OS for tablets and desktops? I feel like Win8 is some sort of strange nybrid/bridge OS.

TBH it didn't need to be separate, but there should have been an option in the Control Panel or something

New Metro
Traditional Windows Desktop

If you have a tablet or touchscreen, the metro is nice and easy. With a standard desktop/laptop, it is definatly a bit awkward, at best.

KevB
01-11-2013, 12:08 PM
TBH it didn't need to be separate, but there should have been an option in the Control Panel or something

New Metro
Traditional Windows Desktop

If you have a tablet or touchscreen, the metro is nice and easy. With a standard desktop/laptop, it is definatly a bit awkward, at best.

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere, but kaplin's sig is utterly mesmerizing. I wanna be friends with it.

DaveNull
02-17-2013, 08:39 AM
I managed to get my hands on a Windows 8 machine and wow is it bad. Maybe it's the hardware (it's an Acer laptop and the build quality reminds me of my old Asus 4G Surf) but I kind of doubt it.

Things that are nice:

- The ability to sync settings across multiple machines
- The weather app
- searching for apps works well, but just looking for "windows update" didn't return anything
- I like the design direction on a lot of the typefaces. The minimal presentation sure looks good on a mockup, but doesn't seem to work as well in reality.
- Anti-aliasing seems to be different, but that could be the screen. Sublime Text looked pretty good right out of the box without any tweaks.

Things that suck

- All the crap that Acer pre-loaded
- "Your internet connection isn't fast enough to download this app"
- Window management in Metro
- having to sign up for a Windows account so you can attach a Gmail account to the Mail app

Things that are completely unexplainable

- If you move the mouse to the bottom corner to show the start icon (or whatever it's called) and move the mouse a pixel away to click on the actual icon it disappears.
- No one unified set of settings and preferences
- No progress bar or status of app installs from the store (that I could see)

I'm going to pull an image of this thing for science and then send it along. Like Vista, this is an OS that I'll hopefully be interacting with through my forensics tools instead of using it.

-King-
02-22-2013, 03:00 PM
Getting a new laptop today with W8. I already feel as if I'm going to hate it and I'm not even a big computer guy. I didn't even really hate Windows vista.

DaFace
02-22-2013, 04:58 PM
Getting a new laptop today with W8. I already feel as if I'm going to hate it and I'm not even a big computer guy. I didn't even really hate Windows vista.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

candyman
02-22-2013, 05:16 PM
Its a well known fact that every other Windows OS sucks. 7 was great so I don't understand why people are surprised that 8 isnt.

Guru
02-22-2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ I prefer Classic Shell.

ArrowheadHawk
02-23-2013, 08:50 AM
I really like windows 8. One ty out know how to use it it works better than 7.

Braincase
02-24-2013, 09:26 PM
If you do any sort of Powershell scripting, check out the Powershell ISE in Windows 8. One of the single best features ever.

Braincase
02-24-2013, 09:27 PM
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Start8 rocks. Their full-blown add-on is very interesting.

-King-
02-25-2013, 07:44 PM
I'm getting used to it. It's actually not that bad.

Saulbadguy
02-26-2013, 06:16 PM
If you do any sort of Powershell scripting, check out the Powershell ISE in Windows 8. One of the single best features ever.

Looks like they ripped off PowerGUI.

Baby Lee
10-04-2013, 07:43 PM
Now that people have used it for a while, what's the verdict.

I recent came into some RAM, so I'm going from 4 GB to 32 GB. Was in Win7 x32. So I have to decide between Win7 x64 [already have] or Win8.

No touchscreen, single 24" LCD. i5 2500K w/32GB, Invidia GeForce 9800

Primary uses

AV stream/viewing/listening
internet
CAD/Office/Adobe, plus an array of engineering/mathematic programs [Matlab, PSpice, ModelSIM, etc], photograph tweaking, storage, and sorting.

Have an AVG 2014 license already.

So are the performance, stability, security, or other aspects related to my primary uses, advancements worth the change?

SLAG
10-04-2013, 07:44 PM
Now that people have used it for a while, what's the verdict.

I recent came into some RAM, so I'm going from 4 GB to 32 GB. Was in Win7 x32. So I have to decide between Win7 x64 [already have] or Win8.

No touchscreen, single 24" LCD. i5 2500K w/32GB, Invidia GeForce 9800

Primary uses

AV stream/viewing/listening
internet
CAD/Office/Adobe, plus an array of engineering/mathematic programs [Matlab, PSpice, ModelSIM, etc], photograph tweaking, storage, and sorting.

Have an AVG 2014 license already.

So are the performance, stability, security, or other aspects related to my primary uses, advancements worth the change?
Stick with Windows 7

listopencil
10-04-2013, 07:59 PM
I got my daughter a new laptop with Win8. Hated it, her and I. I grabbed a free program that changed it to look like 7 and it's fine.

listopencil
10-04-2013, 08:00 PM
I prefer Classic Shell.

I think that's the one I used.

Guru
10-04-2013, 09:04 PM
Stick with Windows 7

Yep. I went back to 7.

chiefs1111
10-04-2013, 09:12 PM
I did not care for it and went back to 7 as well.

Ace Gunner
10-04-2013, 09:13 PM
got a brand new dell laptop collecting dust because I hate 8.

Guru
10-04-2013, 09:18 PM
got a brand new dell laptop collecting dust because I hate 8.

price?

DaFace
10-04-2013, 11:07 PM
There are a number of minor upgrades in Windows 8 that are nice, but the entire "Metro" interface is completely useless.

My recommendation is Windows 8 + Start8 to get rid of the obnoxious shit.

whoman69
10-05-2013, 07:54 AM
Worst thing about windows 8 is that its almost impossible to get into safe mode if you can't get to the start menu. The FBI virus was out well before windows 8, so they should have forseen a method to boot into safe mode when turning on your computer. Its supposed to work when you hit shift + f8. Problem is that it gets to the log in screen so quickly that you don't have the time to get there.

ILChief
10-05-2013, 08:48 AM
I installed 8.1 at work. A little better but not a lot different

KILLER_CLOWN
10-05-2013, 08:50 AM
Stick with Windows 7

What he said.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-05-2013, 08:51 AM
got a brand new dell laptop collecting dust because I hate 8.

Y not put windows 7 on it? I have 2 brand new laptops that I converted back to Win 7.

Fish
10-05-2013, 09:07 AM
Y not put windows 7 on it? I have 2 brand new laptops that I converted back to Win 7.

In many cases, that's much easier said than done. You can't simply insert a disc and install 7. Most new laptops shipping with 8 have the new UEFI partition system. Which Windows 7 can't be installed on. You have to do some DOS command line work to erase and repartition the drive just to install Win7. Which most people wouldn't be capable of. And that also borks your recovery partition as well. So it's a one-way conversion and you can't easily go back to Win8.

Ace Gunner
10-05-2013, 09:09 AM
price?

not gonna sell it -- I bought it for work related specific tasks. hell, it's still under 30 day moneyback and I considered it, but I need a laptop for this, so I'm probly gonna go find a 7 disc and purge that poison..

Ace Gunner
10-05-2013, 09:10 AM
In many cases, that's much easier said than done. You can't simply insert a disc and install 7. Most new laptops shipping with 8 have the new UEFI partition system. Which Windows 7 can't be installed on. You have to do some DOS command line work to erase and repartition the drive just to install Win7. Which most people wouldn't be capable of. And that also borks your recovery partition as well. So it's a one-way conversion and you can't easily go back to Win8.

wha? oh shit.

DaFace
10-05-2013, 09:36 AM
In many cases, that's much easier said than done. You can't simply insert a disc and install 7. Most new laptops shipping with 8 have the new UEFI partition system. Which Windows 7 can't be installed on. You have to do some DOS command line work to erase and repartition the drive just to install Win7. Which most people wouldn't be capable of. And that also borks your recovery partition as well. So it's a one-way conversion and you can't easily go back to Win8.

Again, I'll throw my vote in for sticking with Windows 8 but using Start8 to ditch all the obnoxious stuff. It works great.

Fish
10-05-2013, 09:44 AM
wha? oh shit.

Yeah... here's an example: http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/13326-downgrade-windows-8-windows-7-a.html

Some models are more difficult than others. Supposedly HP is especially difficult, as they are putting in additional measures to prevent downgrading.

Fish
10-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Again, I'll throw my vote in for sticking with Windows 8 but using Start8 to ditch all the obnoxious stuff. It works great.

Yeah, Start8 is a great solution, and that's what I'd recommend people try first. The sad part of the whole affair is that Win8 is really solid minus the metro interface. Start8 does as good of a job as any.

DaveNull
10-05-2013, 09:48 AM
I remember Stardock form the early 2000s as stuff that really degraded performance over time. I take it that's not the case?

DaFace
10-05-2013, 10:27 AM
I remember Stardock form the early 2000s as stuff that really degraded performance over time. I take it that's not the case?

I've been running Start8 for almost a year now, and I haven't had any issues whatsoever. It lets you control basically every part of the Metro interface:


Add back the Windows 7 style start menu
Disable the "hot corners" that bring up other Metro features
Disable the settings menu on the right side


And a bunch of other tweaks. It costs $5, but it's well worth it.

DaveNull
10-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Good to know. I'd think the last two would just be simple reg hacks, but bringing back the start menu seems a little more intrusive until 8.1 comes out.

Whatever though. I'm all about my OS X/Linux/Win7 setups. VMs for everything but OS X.

Deberg_1990
10-17-2013, 06:43 PM
8.1 released today. Downloading it now

DaFace
10-17-2013, 09:53 PM
Just upgraded myself. The whole "start menu is back" thing is stupid. There technically is a menu, but it just takes you back into Metro again.

Guess I'm sticking with Start8.

Deberg_1990
10-17-2013, 11:34 PM
Just upgraded myself. The whole "start menu is back" thing is stupid. There technically is a menu, but it just takes you back into Metro again.

Guess I'm sticking with Start8.

Yea, I noticed that too...wtf? I'll play around with I some more later.

Guru
10-18-2013, 12:16 AM
Just upgraded myself. The whole "start menu is back" thing is stupid. There technically is a menu, but it just takes you back into Metro again.

Guess I'm sticking with Start8.

They obviously want everyone to pony up the money and get touchscreen monitors. I'll never understand why anyone would want touchscreen for desktop computing.

Anyong Bluth
10-18-2013, 02:26 AM
Just upgraded myself. The whole "start menu is back" thing is stupid. There technically is a menu, but it just takes you back into Metro again.

Guess I'm sticking with Start8.

There's some settings options I believe that let you adjust the start button behavior, but it looks like MS is still trying to push metro by default.

I tried to update earlier today and the 8.1 update wouldn't alert as available for download. I'll try again in a bit and play around with it once it will actually let me- which is odd, but I know they're rolling the update availability a bit at least for day 1 since it's a worldwide release according to one article. Would have figured MS could handle whatever expected traffic, but who knows?

I'll see what I find and report back.

Anyong Bluth
10-18-2013, 02:33 AM
They obviously want everyone to pony up the money and get touchscreen monitors. I'll never understand why anyone would want touchscreen for desktop computing.

There's definitely a load setting to boot up as a recognized desktop no touchscreen available which adjusts some of the setup and ui behavior. It was done for something to do with businesses to encourage updating to 8.1 so the employees had a more traditional desktop setup and not having a bunch of people confused about using their work computer and navigating the UI to use it as they typically have been before- 95 - windows 7.

Braincase
10-18-2013, 05:50 AM
8.1 released today. Downloading it now

Downloaded and installed on both my Surface RT and Surface Pro.

ArrowheadHawk
10-18-2013, 12:31 PM
Failed to install on my laptop, luckily it rolled itself back

Donger
10-18-2013, 03:51 PM
I recently got a new desktop with Windows 8 installed. I hated it at first, but I'm slowly getting used to it. It would be nice if there was a way to turn off the "point the mouse here and you see stuff" functionality. And, WTF is the thing at the top left?

NewChief
10-18-2013, 04:04 PM
I recently got a new desktop with Windows 8 installed. I hated it at first, but I'm slowly getting used to it. It would be nice if there was a way to turn off the "point the mouse here and you see stuff" functionality. And, WTF is the thing at the top left?

You can turn off a lot of that shit (not sure about what you're describing). I had to turn off the swiping for the trackpad. It came rolling me back into the Metro startup screen. Drove me nuts.

HemiEd
12-22-2013, 08:44 AM
I have read this thread, and probably don't know enough to recognize the answer if it is in here.

I just got a new Dell laptop with Windows 8. I am trying to figure out how to keep those black slide bars across the right side and lower left from popping up all the time when I don't want them.

I did the 8.1 upgrade and it didn't help anything.

It is very annoying and I appreciate any help if you understand what I am asking.

DaFace
12-22-2013, 10:33 AM
I have read this thread, and probably don't know enough to recognize the answer if it is in here.

I just got a new Dell laptop with Windows 8. I am trying to figure out how to keep those black slide bars across the right side and lower left from popping up all the time when I don't want them.

I did the 8.1 upgrade and it didn't help anything.

It is very annoying and I appreciate any help if you understand what I am asking.

It'll cost you $5, but I highly recommend Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). It'll let you customize all that stuff to the point that it works just like Windows 7 if you want it to.

Baby Lee
12-22-2013, 10:38 AM
Bottom line, non touchpad, standard desktop tower PC user with 32 G Ram and Core I5.

Primarily uses PC for

HTPC [WMC w/HDTVWonder support a must]
Internet Surfing
Engineering Calculating
CAD
Office Suite [reports, spreadsheets, GANTS, and Powerpoints]

Win8 or Win7 64b?

DaFace
12-22-2013, 10:50 AM
Bottom line, non touchpad, standard desktop tower PC user with 32 G Ram and Core I5.

Primarily uses PC for

HTPC [WMC w/HDTVWonder support a must]
Internet Surfing
Engineering Calculating
CAD
Office Suite [reports, spreadsheets, GANTS, and Powerpoints]

Win8 or Win7 64b?

There are some minor under the hood improvements to Windows 8 that I like if you can get past all the Metro stuff. I'd go with Win8+Start8 personally, but Win7 will be fine.

notorious
12-22-2013, 04:12 PM
I went with Windows 7 Pro due to all of the problems 8 is having with Quickbooks Pro.

Anyong Bluth
12-23-2013, 01:04 PM
Fyi, Windows 8.2 is just around the corner, and is supposedly to offer greater UI options to run it a lot more like the Windows 7 / pre Metro setup, and even a bit of a morphed version where you can have the desktop setup like everyone is familiar with and then the ability to place your active tiles on the desktop. So you'll have a fully functional Start button with the old school menus and then I believe you will also be able to just start typing to pull up the meta search that shows choices along the right side of the screen.

Baby Lee
12-28-2013, 05:19 PM
8.1 seems pretty smooth with Start8, didn't like that WMC wasn't included, but JRiver more than makes up for it.

BigRedChief
12-28-2013, 05:28 PM
There are a number of minor upgrades in Windows 8 that are nice, but the entire "Metro" interface is completely useless.

My recommendation is Windows 8 + Start8 to get rid of the obnoxious shit.I just got a new Windows laptop for the wife. I heard about the issues but thought it was just users complaining about change. But, no start button? No program files? WTF? Thats some arrogant engineering.

Guru
12-28-2013, 05:55 PM
I just got a new Windows laptop for the wife. I heard about the issues but thought it was just users complaining about change. But, no start button? No program files? WTF? Thats some arrogant engineering.

Teh problem is that Win8 was designed for tablets and touch screen monitors. Metro is useless without touch. I hated Win8 on my laptop but it makes some semblance of sense on a Surface tablet.

Brainiac
12-28-2013, 06:34 PM
I have really tried to embrace Windows 8 running on a tablet. I really have. The problem is that Windows 8 just plain sucks.

Windows 8 is by far my least favorite desktop/laptop OS. It's like the Windows 8 developers at Microsoft were determined to make it as difficult as possible to perform the functions that you easily perform in Windows 7. The only way to make it usable is to add a third-party start menu such as Start8 or Classic Shell. I personally use Classic Shell, but I think the two add-ons are pretty much identical. What they do is give you a way to get to the old Start Menu that has been around ever since Windows 95. It turns the monstrosity known as Windows 8 into an OS that is once again perfectly usable.

I hope Microsoft really does return the old Start Menu with Windows 8.2, as is rumored. The "start button" that they added with Windows 8.1 is a freaking joke. I suspect some arrogant asshole at Microsoft said "So, you're pissed that we took away the Start button? Fine, I'll give you a Start button. It will take you to the Metro GUI that you hate so much. So there!". The "Start Button" in Windows 8.1 is completely useless.

Windows 8 is also by far my least favorite tablet OS. The "touch" function works, but it's damn hard to hit what you're trying to touch on the first attempt. On an iPad you can easily pinch and zoom the screen so that you CAN actually touch a hyperlink on the first attempt. On my Windows 8 tablets sometimes I can pinch and zoom, and sometimes I can't.

In my opinion the iPad is still by far the best tablet available. I'm no Apple fanboy, as I don't have any machine that runs Mac OS X. I do have 2 desktops and 2 laptops running Windows 7, two Windows 8 tablets, an Pad, an iPhone, and a Samsung tablet running the Android OS. I also have a laptop running Linux Mint KDE, and a desktop running Ubuntu Linux 12.04. I think I've had a pretty good exposure to a lot of different operating systems.

The iPad interface is simply a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface, and it's not even close. The Android OS is a hell of a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface as well.

Now, if you absolutely must have Microsoft Office on your tablet, then you have no choice: you really do need a Windows 8 tablet. You also really need a mouse. I've resorted to carrying around a mouse whenever I carry my Windows 8 tablet into a meeting, because it's just so damn hard to navigate Windows 8 without it. But when I don't need Microsoft Office, I leave the ****ing Windows 8 tablet at my desk and carry an iPad into the meeting instead. An iPad is much better at taking meeting notes, reading email, checking your online calendar, and surfing the Internet. The ONLY time I'll every carry a Windows 8 tablet into a meeting is if I need to edit an Excel spreadsheet in the meeting.

Sadly, however, Windows 8 is here to stay, and we all might as well learn to love it.

Fish
12-28-2013, 07:06 PM
FYI... not sure if you've tried it....

You can do light editing of Office files on your iPad using Microsoft's Office web apps. For free. It's missing some of the really advanced editing features. But for simple stuff it works well.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/

Easy 6
12-28-2013, 07:33 PM
All I can say is... I. Hate. It.

As soon as i can, i'm having 7 installed... 8 has so many connectivity problems with websites i always use, constantly.

Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Fox Sports, Fox News, CNN, Google Chrome almost never works, just to name a few... they constantly barely work or don't work at all some days, never ever had this problem with any other version.

DaFace
12-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Windows 8 is by far my least favorite desktop/laptop OS. It's like the Windows 8 developers at Microsoft were determined to make it as difficult as possible to perform the functions that you easily perform in Windows 7. The only way to make it usable is to add a third-party start menu such as Start8 or Classic Shell. I personally use Classic Shell, but I think the two add-ons are pretty much identical. What they do is give you a way to get to the old Start Menu that has been around ever since Windows 95. It turns the monstrosity known as Windows 8 into an OS that is once again perfectly usable.

Yeah, for the record, I only pitch Start8 because it's what I've used and have liked. From what I understand, Classic Shell does basically the same thing.

Just in case people run across this thread, here's a decent review of the two:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/stardock_start8_vs_classic_shell2013

DaFace
12-28-2013, 07:47 PM
All I can say is... I. Hate. It.

As soon as i can, i'm having 7 installed... 8 has so many connectivity problems with websites i always use, constantly.

Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Fox Sports, Fox News, CNN, Google Chrome almost never works, just to name a few... they constantly barely work or don't work at all some days, never ever had this problem with any other version.

That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.

Guru
12-28-2013, 08:00 PM
That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.

AGreed, when I had Win8 I never had connectivity issues on my PC<

Anyong Bluth
12-28-2013, 10:30 PM
That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.







AGreed, when I had Win8 I never had connectivity issues on my PC<

Yep- never had a single issue like that unless it was Internet / router problems.

Brainiac
12-29-2013, 03:27 PM
FYI... not sure if you've tried it....

You can do light editing of Office files on your iPad using Microsoft's Office web apps. For free. It's missing some of the really advanced editing features. But for simple stuff it works well.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/
Thanks. I agree it's fine for simple stuff.

-King-
12-30-2013, 09:18 AM
I just got a new Windows laptop for the wife. I heard about the issues but thought it was just users complaining about change. But, no start button? No program files? WTF? Thats some arrogant engineering.

I guess I just don't get the start button issue.

When you go into metro, just type the name of the program you want to run.

And there are program files.

DaFace
12-30-2013, 09:43 AM
I guess I just don't get the start button issue.

When you go into metro, just type the name of the program you want to run.

And there are program files.

Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.

-King-
12-30-2013, 09:48 AM
Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.

Or you could skip steps 2 and 3 and be more efficient.

Brainiac
12-30-2013, 02:23 PM
Or you could skip steps 2 and 3 and be more efficient.
Great idea. Here's an even better one: Let's just get rid of the whole Windows GUI and go back to a command line interface.

If you don't understand why people miss the Start Menu, you never understood the Start Menu.

-King-
12-30-2013, 03:19 PM
Great idea. Here's an even better one: Let's just get rid of the whole Windows GUI and go back to a command line interface.

If you don't understand why people miss the Start Menu, you never understood the Start Menu.

Ok, tell me how my idea is any less efficient than using a start menu.

-King-
12-30-2013, 03:21 PM
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.

Guru
12-31-2013, 01:57 AM
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.

Because people don't want to type. :shrug:

Brainiac
12-31-2013, 06:28 AM
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.
Your method requires you to click on a poor replacement for the old Start button in order to bring up a tiled list of programs where each tile takes up WAY too much screen space and the list is randomly organized. You are forced to either swipe the screen (potentially several times) in order to find what you want, or you are forced to invoke the search function, bring up the virtual keyboard, and begin typing the first couple of letters of the name of the program you want.

The Windows Start menu has all of your apps organized in alphabetical order, gives you the option to pin commonly used apps to a prominent position at the top, provides you with an easy way to find links to things such as the Control Panel, Printers, your documents, pictures, music, and a Help panel. Plus, it's a scrollable list that takes up less than a third of your screen real estate. The Metro interface was simply a lame attempt by Microsoft to make their interface mimic the interface used by the iPhone and iPad.

If you truly believe your method of finding an app is better and more efficient that the Start Menu that was introduced in Windows 95 and has been tweaked and improved in every iteration of Windows prior to Windows 8, then I'm not going to waste my time debating this issue with you. It's utterly hopeless and will just wind up frustrating me and everybody else who reads this thread.

The fact is that the vast majority of Windows users agree with me and disagree with you. That's why Microsoft is going to restore the actual Start menu in Windows 8.2. If you prefer to use your method, more power to you. Just don't continue to plead ignorance.

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 11:50 AM
I have really tried to embrace Windows 8 running on a tablet. I really have. The problem is that Windows 8 just plain sucks.

Windows 8 is by far my least favorite desktop/laptop OS. It's like the Windows 8 developers at Microsoft were determined to make it as difficult as possible to perform the functions that you easily perform in Windows 7. The only way to make it usable is to add a third-party start menu such as Start8 or Classic Shell. I personally use Classic Shell, but I think the two add-ons are pretty much identical. What they do is give you a way to get to the old Start Menu that has been around ever since Windows 95. It turns the monstrosity known as Windows 8 into an OS that is once again perfectly usable.

I hope Microsoft really does return the old Start Menu with Windows 8.2, as is rumored. The "start button" that they added with Windows 8.1 is a freaking joke. I suspect some arrogant asshole at Microsoft said "So, you're pissed that we took away the Start button? Fine, I'll give you a Start button. It will take you to the Metro GUI that you hate so much. So there!". The "Start Button" in Windows 8.1 is completely useless.

Windows 8 is also by far my least favorite tablet OS. The "touch" function works, but it's damn hard to hit what you're trying to touch on the first attempt. On an iPad you can easily pinch and zoom the screen so that you CAN actually touch a hyperlink on the first attempt. On my Windows 8 tablets sometimes I can pinch and zoom, and sometimes I can't.

In my opinion the iPad is still by far the best tablet available. I'm no Apple fanboy, as I don't have any machine that runs Mac OS X. I do have 2 desktops and 2 laptops running Windows 7, two Windows 8 tablets, an Pad, an iPhone, and a Samsung tablet running the Android OS. I also have a laptop running Linux Mint KDE, and a desktop running Ubuntu Linux 12.04. I think I've had a pretty good exposure to a lot of different operating systems.

The iPad interface is simply a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface, and it's not even close. The Android OS is a hell of a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface as well.

Now, if you absolutely must have Microsoft Office on your tablet, then you have no choice: you really do need a Windows 8 tablet. You also really need a mouse. I've resorted to carrying around a mouse whenever I carry my Windows 8 tablet into a meeting, because it's just so damn hard to navigate Windows 8 without it. But when I don't need Microsoft Office, I leave the ****ing Windows 8 tablet at my desk and carry an iPad into the meeting instead. An iPad is much better at taking meeting notes, reading email, checking your online calendar, and surfing the Internet. The ONLY time I'll every carry a Windows 8 tablet into a meeting is if I need to edit an Excel spreadsheet in the meeting.

Sadly, however, Windows 8 is here to stay, and we all might as well learn to love it.

It's funny, because I have been using 8 for about a year, and 8.1 since release on a desktop, Surface RT and a Surface Pro 2. And I see none of the issues that you vaguely complain about. The only issue, and this is a hardware design is that the SP2 is meant for a stylus, and not so much for your finger, if you use a stylus, clicking links and what not is really easy.

8 runs fast and smooth for me, even on my desktop, the metro doesn't bother me, especially after 8.1. I cleared off all the apps that I don't like, put up a few that I do, and then normally I just type in what I want and then hit enter like I did in Windows 7 on the start menu.

I will give Apple that their app store is light years ahead of M$'s, but as far as real tablets go, the SP2 is pretty fricking awesome, and destroys the iPad in every way that I can think of that actually matters.

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 11:53 AM
Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.

Be at Metro
Type program name Word
Push Enter
????
Profit

Donger
12-31-2013, 01:02 PM
Okay, I've fucking had it with this POS...

Just got a voicemail in .wav format. Clicked on it to play and some program played it, but...

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU CLOSE WHATEVER PROGRAM THIS IS!!!?

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 01:08 PM
Okay, I've ****ing had it with this POS...

Just got a voicemail in .wav format. Clicked on it to play and some program played it, but...

HOW THE **** DO YOU CLOSE WHATEVER PROGRAM THIS IS!!!?

The point is, your not supposed to. It works like iOS, you move on to the next program and leave the old one running. If an app is not the focus, then it doesn't take up any processing cycles, it just sits in the background waiting for you to use it again.

If you really want to close it though, then try CTRL+Shift+ESC and end the task/process.

Donger
12-31-2013, 01:12 PM
The point is, your not supposed to. It works like iOS, you move on to the next program and leave the old one running. If an app is not the focus, then it doesn't take up any processing cycles, it just sits in the background waiting for you to use it again.

If you really want to close it though, then try CTRL+Shift+ESC and end the task/process.

I can't even figure out how to get back to the fucking desktop...

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 01:14 PM
I can't even figure out how to get back to the ****ing desktop...

Some Ways:

1. Push Windows key to go back to Metro, select Desktop icon if you haven't unpinned it.

2. Windows Key + M

3. Alt + Tab to cycle through open windows and desktop

Donger
12-31-2013, 01:17 PM
Some Ways:

1. Push Windows key to go back to Metro, select Desktop icon if you haven't unpinned it.

2. Windows Key + M

3. Alt + Tab to cycle through open windows and desktop

Wow, thanks. This is really stupid.

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 01:19 PM
Something that might help people having issues with Win 8.

Go to the Metro, then the App Store and look for Windows 8 Cheat Keys. It's a free app and might help you navigate/understand the OS a little more.

I think the biggest problem why people don't like Win 8 is that it is new and different from previous versions, not just in look in feel like XP was to 2000 and Vista/7 to XP, but it functions differently under the hood too. Because of this change, and little to no instructions from Microsoft, there is a huge perception that the OS is terrible, when in reality it's really stable, and faster than Win 7, one just has to learn how to use it properly.

kaplin42
12-31-2013, 01:20 PM
Wow, thanks. This is really stupid.

Also, if using a tablet, stroke from left side of the screen to center, that will cycle programs as well. If you drag your finger in from the left and then go back , you will get a snap window with all of your open programs on the left hand side that you can just tap to switch to.

Donger
12-31-2013, 01:24 PM
Also, if using a tablet, stroke from left side of the screen to center, that will cycle programs as well. If you drag your finger in from the left and then go back , you will get a snap window with all of your open programs on the left hand side that you can just tap to switch to.

It's running on a desktop. I did find out that if you grab the top of that program and pull it down to the bottom, it closes.

Hate it. Hate. Hate.

DaFace
12-31-2013, 04:05 PM
Be at Metro
Type program name Word
Push Enter
????
Profit

Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?

loochy
12-31-2013, 04:47 PM
Something that might help people having issues with Win 8.

Go to the Metro, then the App Store and look for Windows 8 Cheat Keys. It's a free app and might help you navigate/understand the OS a little more.

I think the biggest problem why people don't like Win 8 is that it is new and different from previous versions, not just in look in feel like XP was to 2000 and Vista/7 to XP, but it functions differently under the hood too. Because of this change, and little to no instructions from Microsoft, there is a huge perception that the OS is terrible, when in reality it's really stable, and faster than Win 7, one just has to learn how to use it properly.

Dos is fast and stable. One just has to learn how to use it

BWillie
12-31-2013, 05:01 PM
No idea why Windows 8 gets the shit it does. It's adaptable, easy to use, efficient, .. I mean a completely moron can figure out how to use it. Same goes for Apple's GUI and what not, but I just like Windows 8 much better. I can work, I can play, can use it as a tablet or a desktop PC. What is not to like? Ohh right, it's Windows. It's not cool and hip.

DaFace
12-31-2013, 05:06 PM
No idea why Windows 8 gets the shit it does. It's adaptable, easy to use, efficient, .. I mean a completely moron can figure out how to use it. Same goes for Apple's GUI and what not, but I just like Windows 8 much better. I can work, I can play, can use it as a tablet or a desktop PC. What is not to like? Ohh right, it's Windows. It's not cool and hip.

That has zero to do with it. I've been a Windows fan (relative to Mac) for years.

I've got no complaints about it as a tablet OS. The problem is, it sucks as a desktop OS.

Guru
12-31-2013, 05:12 PM
That has zero to do with it. I've been a Windows fan (relative to Mac) for years.

I've got no complaints about it as a tablet OS. The problem is, it sucks as a desktop OS.

That is exactly how I feel about it. All they had to do was keep the start button as an option for the desktop and nobody would be complaining at all. AS a tablet OS it works very well.

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:19 PM
Your method requires you to click on a poor replacement for the old Start button in order to bring up a tiled list of programs where each tile takes up WAY too much screen space and the list is randomly organized. You are forced to either swipe the screen (potentially several times) in order to find what you want, or you are forced to invoke the search function, bring up the virtual keyboard, and begin typing the first couple of letters of the name of the program you want.

Click all apps at the bottom and they will be in alphabetical order. Or shit...ARRANGE THE APPS YOURSELF!

The Windows Start menu has all of your apps organized in alphabetical order, gives you the option to pin commonly used apps to a prominent position at the top, provides you with an easy way to find links to things such as the Control Panel, Printers, your documents, pictures, music, and a Help panel. Plus, it's a scrollable list that takes up less than a third of your screen real estate. The Metro interface was simply a lame attempt by Microsoft to make their interface mimic the interface used by the iPhone and iPad. Everything you said you could do with the start menu, you can also do on metro.

If you truly believe your method of finding an app is better and more efficient that the Start Menu that was introduced in Windows 95 and has been tweaked and improved in every iteration of Windows prior to Windows 8, then I'm not going to waste my time debating this issue with you. It's utterly hopeless and will just wind up frustrating me and everybody else who reads this thread. Once again, you haven't explained how it's less efficient. It's way faster since you don't have to wade through menus. And if you do want to wade through them, you can put them into alphabetical order or in any order you want.

The fact is that the vast majority of Windows users agree with me and disagree with you. That's why Microsoft is going to restore the actual Start menu in Windows 8.2. If you prefer to use your method, more power to you. Just don't continue to plead ignorance.

That's because people hate drastic change. Do I love Windows 8? No. But the start menu is the least of my concerns concerning it.

If you're too lazy to type the first two letters of an app to find it, that's on you, but don't say it's less efficient when it's not.

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:22 PM
Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?

But you don't have to use both keyboard or mouse either. You can put the apps in alphabetical order or make up your own order if you want.

Guru
12-31-2013, 09:26 PM
But you don't have to use both keyboard or mouse either. You can put the apps in alphabetical order or make up your own order if you want.

you do it your way we'll do it ours. JFC

DaFace
12-31-2013, 09:28 PM
you do it your way we'll do it ours. JFC

Yeah, I really don't get the mentality here. CLEARLY, the majority of people think this system sucks, so what's the point in trying to convince us that it doesn't as if it's just a small minority who doesn't like it?

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I really don't get the mentality here. CLEARLY, the majority of people think this system sucks, so what's the point in trying to convince us that it doesn't as if it's just a small minority who doesn't like it?

You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?

Guru
12-31-2013, 09:40 PM
You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?
your opinion is a matter of opinion as well.

DaFace
12-31-2013, 09:43 PM
You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?

You're more than welcome to point it out, but you keep acting like the system is somehow IMPROVED because of all the changes. Most of us don't feel that way at all, and even Microsoft has acknowledged that it doesn't work that well. If you like it, fine, but don't act like we're all stupid for not liking it.

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:45 PM
You're more than welcome to point it out, but you keep acting like the system is somehow IMPROVED because of all the changes. Most of us don't feel that way at all, and even Microsoft has acknowledged that it doesn't work that well. If you like it, fine, but don't act like we're all stupid for not liking it.

How have i acted like that? I haven't at any point said that the system is improved.

Guru
12-31-2013, 09:46 PM
How have i acted like that? I haven't at any point said that the system is improved.

Holy fucking christ. ROFL

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:48 PM
Holy fucking christ. ROFL

Feel free to post a quote of me saying that it's improved.

Guru
12-31-2013, 09:52 PM
Feel free to post a quote of me saying that it's improved.

That isn't what I am referring to. It is your attitude toward everyone that doesn't like the current format of Win8. You are acting as if we are all a bunch of dumbfucks for not seeing the benefit of the new OS. The majority of windows users do not like it.

Now, if you have a tablet or a touchscreen monitor then that changes things but as a desktop application Win8 fucking sucks in its current layout. When 8.2 comes out you won't hear as much bitching because it will finally be standard desktop friendly again.

-King-
12-31-2013, 09:56 PM
That isn't what I am referring to. It is your attitude toward everyone that doesn't like the current format of Win8. You are acting as if we are all a bunch of dumbfucks for not seeing the benefit of the new OS. The majority of windows users do not like it. I have said NOTHING of the kind. All my posts have been about the start button only. I haven't said ANYTHING about the OS as a whole. But, w/e, agree to disagree.

htismaqe
12-31-2013, 10:05 PM
I made the switch…

To OS X Lion.

So much better than Windows.

Brainiac
12-31-2013, 10:57 PM
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.

Guru
12-31-2013, 11:29 PM
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.


This is my feelings 100%:clap::clap::clap:

Anyong Bluth
01-01-2014, 05:49 PM
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.

hyperbolic.

Plenty of fair criticism for Instituting a touch friendly- if not almost necessary ui version when the predominant userbase is still very much entrenched in the normal keyboard and mouse setup. 8.2 is expected to reimplement the standard Start button- so it's not the end of the world, and there's plenty of +s to the new OS otherwise.

I'm not a Microsoft fanboi, and didn't care for them ditching the Start button- but I do like the type feature to pull up what I'm looking for.

Ultimately, it's coming back, and this is much ado about nothing.

DaFace
01-01-2014, 05:52 PM
I'm not a Microsoft fanboi, and didn't care for them ditching the Start button- but I do like the type feature to pull up what I'm looking for.

Again, that's a Windows Vista feature.

kaplin42
01-01-2014, 06:15 PM
Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?

you do have a windows key on the keyboard. And yes, the search was in 7 and Vista. Really, Metro is just a big blown up start menu, that you can run apps on.

Guru
01-01-2014, 06:19 PM
you do have a windows key on the keyboard. And yes, the search was in 7 and Vista. Really, Metro is just a big blown up start menu, that you can run apps on.

Its a big blown up start menu you that you have to organize yourself.

Anyong Bluth
01-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Again, that's a Windows Vista feature.

Yes I know this - once you clicked on the Start button- quickest way to get to the command prompt- cmd

-King-
01-02-2014, 02:27 PM
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.
How the fuck am I a fanboy? I've discussed ONE small aspect of the OS, missing the start button. I haven't commented on any other aspect much less the OS as a whole.
Posted via Mobile Device

Braincase
01-02-2014, 05:36 PM
I like it on touchscreens.

I also am growing more curious about the Microsoft Midori project.

HemiEd
01-04-2014, 08:53 AM
It'll cost you $5, but I highly recommend Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). It'll let you customize all that stuff to the point that it works just like Windows 7 if you want it to.

Thanks, just installed it and it helped my situation a lot! That was so annoying, it was well worth the $5

Saulbadguy
01-04-2014, 01:53 PM
The built in reader and photo viewer app. Woof.

Crush
01-22-2014, 08:17 AM
Windows 7 is making a comeback.

http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/20/ouch-hp-is-now-promoting-pcs-running-windows-7-because-windows-8-isnt-doing-so-hot/

loochy
01-22-2014, 08:25 AM
This whole thing with half of the programs being "apps" and half of the programs being regular programs is rather infuriating. If I open an "app", I can't quickly and easily close it. There's no x or minimize button. I have to move the mouse up to the right hand corner and find the correct "app" window and right click on it, then click close. Also, it wants to take up either all, half, or none of the screen. I want to resize it to how big I want it to be.

WHY THE HELL DO PROGRAMS NOT WORK IN A UNIFORM MANNER?!?!? Put the "apps" on the taskbar like regular programs or put programs in the upper right hand menu thing. This is just retarded.

Donger
01-22-2014, 08:40 AM
Ouch...

LMAO

GordonGekko
01-22-2014, 09:27 AM
Windows 8 I probably will never try. I went from XP to 7, and will probably go from 7 to 9 whenever that comes out. Windows 8 just seemed like too much of a consolation to mobile devices that it just doesn't fit with the desktop experience.

hometeam
01-22-2014, 09:39 AM
I was thinking about putting windows 8.1 on my secondary rebuild I am about to do. Keys are bringing 25 bucks right now for pro (so I can use 32gb ram)

I think it will be fine once I make the UI like win 7~

kaplin42
01-22-2014, 09:44 AM
This whole thing with half of the programs being "apps" and half of the programs being regular programs is rather infuriating. If I open an "app", I can't quickly and easily close it. There's no x or minimize button. I have to move the mouse up to the right hand corner and find the correct "app" window and right click on it, then click close. Also, it wants to take up either all, half, or none of the screen. I want to resize it to how big I want it to be.

WHY THE HELL DO PROGRAMS NOT WORK IN A UNIFORM MANNER?!?!? Put the "apps" on the taskbar like regular programs or put programs in the upper right hand menu thing. This is just retarded.

To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.

I still stand by the notion that a lot of the Windows H8 comes from it being different, and general misunderstanding of how to use it. Since I have learned how to use it, and am comfortable with keyboard shortcuts, I can navigate the OS with ease, and find a lot of it's features pretty slick.

loochy
01-22-2014, 10:15 AM
To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.


Yeah, we figured out how to close it.

I see what they are trying to do with the tablet/computer thing, but man it just doesn't work smoothly.

Pick one way or the other and make it uniform...or wait until you have a complete solution instead releasing a halfway OS.

Omaha
01-22-2014, 10:23 AM
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.

Anyong Bluth
01-22-2014, 10:26 AM
To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.

I still stand by the notion that a lot of the Windows H8 comes from it being different, and general misunderstanding of how to use it. Since I have learned how to use it, and am comfortable with keyboard shortcuts, I can navigate the OS with ease, and find a lot of it's features pretty slick.


I for the most part like 8.1- but think 9 will clear up most of the confusion and ire.

The part I put in bold is really the biggest implementation flaw that 8.x has had since launch. Sure, you can scour around to get a full run through of transitioning from 7 or xp, but they should have rolled in a way better tutorial showing side by side functionality between the 7 desktop on 1 side and how to achieve the same thing on 8 right next to it.

Even an option of dissolving functions- showing the old method to do something that would cue a reminder pane with a quick video showing you how to do the same thing within 8. After a while, the new method would be remembered, and the user could right click on the old method feature to dissolve its use going forward and use the new version 8 implementation.

They simply did a terrible job of presenting the UI with a thought out manner of getting people up to speed and at ease with working with the new environment.

Bob Dole
01-22-2014, 10:28 AM
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.

Bob Dole is going to start calling Win8 "Windows ME Redux".

Donger
01-22-2014, 10:33 AM
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.

As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

kaplin42
01-22-2014, 10:38 AM
I for the most part like 8.1- but think 9 will clear up most of the confusion and ire.

The part I put in bold is really the biggest implementation flaw that 8.x has had since launch. Sure, you can scour around to get a full run through of transitioning from 7 or xp, but they should have rolled in a way better tutorial showing side by side functionality between the 7 desktop on 1 side and how to achieve the same thing on 8 right next to it.

Even an option of dissolving functions- showing the old method to do something that would cue a reminder pane with a quick video showing you how to do the same thing within 8. After a while, the new method would be remembered, and the user could right click on the old method feature to dissolve its use going forward and use the new version 8 implementation.

They simply did a terrible job of presenting the UI with a thought out manner of getting people up to speed and at ease with working with the new environment.

I agree. M$ should have offered some more thorough tutorials, or even better, right from release a toggle setting.

Toggle ON = Use Metro with touch features enabled. Works great for all touch screen devices, and is really what the Metro is designed for.

Toggle Off = Windows 8 uses a traditional style of look and feel with a desktop and start menu.

If they would have just done that, half of the problems would have been solved. Why touch screens are here to stay, not everyone have or had them at the time of release. M$ should have given their customers the choice of how to run the OS for the device they had.

I swear the biggest fail at M$ is their marketing department, they just suck, and always have. A really big reason why Apple is so successful is their marketing,

htismaqe
01-22-2014, 10:55 AM
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

Linux is free.

Anyong Bluth
01-22-2014, 11:34 AM
I agree. M$ should have offered some more thorough tutorials, or even better, right from release a toggle setting.

Toggle ON = Use Metro with touch features enabled. Works great for all touch screen devices, and is really what the Metro is designed for.

Toggle Off = Windows 8 uses a traditional style of look and feel with a desktop and start menu.

If they would have just done that, half of the problems would have been solved. Why touch screens are here to stay, not everyone have or had them at the time of release. M$ should have given their customers the choice of how to run the OS for the device they had.

I swear the biggest fail at M$ is their marketing department, they just suck, and always have. A really big reason why Apple is so successful is their marketing,


...and one of the many reasons why Ballmer being gone should be a good thing.

Ya, we all use touchscreens- except I'd bet that the average desktop / laptop setup with touchscreen is no more than 5% at this point- just your typical keyboard and mouse setup. Ironically, the touchscreen setups that do run windows are for primarily for specific software, like at kiosks, atms, etc, and they are running xp, or 7.
I just saw a story about the headache banks are tackling now because 95% of the atm machines in the world run off xp, and it is no longer supported by MS- which means that they have to scramble to update quickly because the last thing you want is your banking system vulnerable and no longer supported for patches and updated!

Of course this isn't new news, and I don't feel bad for them, they've had years of notice, and pissed away transitioning time to avoid this stupidity!

On a sidenote, I wouldn't envy Cook's position or job security at Apple. Even if he does a fine job, the expectations are reality of sustainable growth were never going to keep at their meteoric pace.

Seems like there's some chippiness and intra-department squabbling among the higher up division heads, and the name that keeps popping up the most with other Apple talent and managers is Jony Ive, Job's golden apple boy , and head of design, etc.

I'm actually questioning not if, but when he will be handed the reins and the company's head. He seems to be acting rather cavalier and little bothered lately about worrying if or whose toes he steps on.





As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

I believe HP in the last 2 or 3 days, announced that they are going to offer windows 7 as an option on their new laptops. PC sales have taken a big plunge, and it's believed that being forced into 8 is causing some to put off buying in the interim until 8.2 or 9 becomes available to restore some of the 7 "classic" layout and interface.

hometeam
01-22-2014, 12:38 PM
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

Please don't pay that kind of money.

Download the installer, and buy a key from www.reddit.com/r/softwareswap for 20 or 30 bucks.

Anyong Bluth
01-22-2014, 03:40 PM
*Speak of the devil...



New Windows 8.1 update screenshots leaked?

NEW WINDOWS 8.1 UPDATE SCREENSHOTS LEAKED?

By*Konrad Krawczyk**—***January 22, 20141119924

A Russian site*by the name of Wzor*may have gotten the early scoop on the changes coming in*the next significant Windows 8.1 update,*which could be released to the public during Microsoft’s developer-focused Build conference.

The conference will be held between April 2 and April 4 of this year.*In the alleged screenshots posted by Wzor, we noticed a button on the Taskbar in the classic desktop UI that appeared to be a button sporting the Windows app store insignia.

However, it’s unclear whether the app store would run within the desktop UI, or simply take you back to the tiled Metro/Modern interface and run there.

Microsoft is allegedly chipping away on the idea already, looking to make non-desktop apps accessible and usable from the desktop. What isn’t known is if such a feature would appear in this update, a future Windows 8.1 update, or be held back entirely for the launch of Windows 9,*which could be released in the middle of 2015.

This begs the question though: if Microsoft is set on making Modern/Metro apps usable from the desktop UI, then why have the tiled interface to begin with? If the purpose of Windows 8 and 8.1 was to get PC users acclimated to the tiled UI and steer them away from the desktop UI that they knew (and loved), giving people the option to use apps designed for that UI within the tried-and-true desktop environment is hardly a vote of confidence for Modern/Metro on Microsoft’s part.

If Microsoft indeed does release a Windows 8.1 update during their Build conference, it’ll be interesting to see what significant changes, if any, will be made to the polarizing OS

Read more:*http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-windows-8-1-update-screenshots-leaked/#ixzz2rAZUkPub*

Follow us:*@digitaltrends on Twitter*|*digitaltrendsftw on Facebook


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/2arareha.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/6ehu6a9u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/4yvudaqu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/yzyda4u4.jpg

If this ends up legit, 99% of the hostility about 8.x will evaporate in one fell swoop of an update downloaded install, and all of about 30-40 minutes to silence the year + of backlash.

DaFace
01-22-2014, 03:59 PM
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.

Crush
01-22-2014, 04:14 PM
Yeah and you still need a third-party program such as Start8 or Classic Shell to get the Windows 7-style start menu back.


The start menu in those screenshots is a piss-poor imitation.

Anyong Bluth
01-22-2014, 04:16 PM
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.

I'm assuming it's a incremental update, and they just aren't bumping the release number up to 8.2.
(8.1.5 or 8.1xxx or something like that? )

Probably, if this is a real update, they will have this update and maybe 1 service pack, like late 2014, in between now and when they are expected to put out the RC of windows 9 many are saying will be slated for Summer of 2015.

The word is one of the perks their Build tech conference will include will be a 1st build release of 9. Subsequently after that got out the event sold out in a flash.

Brainiac
01-22-2014, 04:37 PM
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

Before you do that you should really try Classic Shell or Start8. They fix the major problem with Windows 8 and they are a lot cheaper than $175.

Brainiac
01-22-2014, 04:41 PM
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.
Windows 8.1 didn't really fix the major problem with Windows 8. It's like some smart-ass at Microsoft decided that if everybody was demanding a START button, he'd give them a completely worthless START button as an act of defiance so that he could say "THERE'S your goddamn START button!"

The START button in Windows 8.1 is worthless. Windows 8.1 may make some minor changes to Windows 8, but that's it.

Ragged Robin
01-22-2014, 06:33 PM
Used Windows 8 at work. Fucking terrible so we got them install Windows 7 instead.

kaplin42
01-22-2014, 08:08 PM
LOL. Change is hard.

Gravedigger
01-22-2014, 08:19 PM
If history has taught us anything is that XP was great, Vista was shit, 7 was great, 8 was shit, 9 should be.... SHOULD BE..... great....

BigRedChief
01-22-2014, 08:42 PM
Before you do that you should really try Classic Shell or Start8. They fix the major problem with Windows 8 and they are a lot cheaper than $175.Bought the wife a new touch screen laptop for christmas. She likes the touch screen, tablet style OS feel and look.

she needed a more power than a tablet. Was thinking here ya go, the windows OS for you............. hated it. No start button? Really? How do I get all those damn apps where I want? Remove the ones I hate?

Just bought Start8 and fences. Now I have a happy camper.

Fat Elvis
01-22-2014, 08:47 PM
I think I am the only person in the universe that really likes Windows 8. Well, myself and my 8 year old daughter.

Windows 8 is SUPER easy. It may be too easy and that is where a lot of the frustration comes from, if you ask me.

Fruit Ninja
01-22-2014, 09:25 PM
I think I am the only person in the universe that really likes Windows 8. Well, myself and my 8 year old daughter.

Windows 8 is SUPER easy. It may be too easy and that is where a lot of the frustration comes from, if you ask me.

Doesnt bother me at all. I only do general internet surfing and use my PC as a media center.

DaFace
01-22-2014, 10:14 PM
If history has taught us anything is that XP was great, Vista was shit, 7 was great, 8 was shit, 9 should be.... SHOULD BE..... great....

Yeah, it pretty much goes all the way back to 95 (and maybe even further, but I don't know much about pre-Windows 3.1 systems):

95 - Dramatic overhaul of the OS, but pretty buggy.
98 - Much more reliable. Not a ton of new features comparatively.
ME - Abortion in terms of reliability. Started toward a more visually pleasing GUI.
XP - Brought the stability of the NT branch into the GUI of the consumer branch.
Vista - Revamped a lot of the OS. Buggy as hell.
7 - Didn't change much. Works great.
8 - Pretty reliable, but horrible GUI integration and rollout.
9 - Much better implementation of whatever they're trying to push us toward so that it doesn't seem so awkward?

pr_capone
01-22-2014, 11:17 PM
Yeah, it pretty much goes all the way back to 95 (and maybe even further, but I don't know much about pre-Windows 3.1 systems):

95 - Dramatic overhaul of the OS, but pretty buggy.
98 - Much more reliable. Not a ton of new features comparatively.
ME - Abortion in terms of reliability. Started toward a more visually pleasing GUI.
XP - Brought the stability of the NT branch into the GUI of the consumer branch.
Vista - Revamped a lot of the OS. Buggy as hell.
7 - Didn't change much. Works great.
8 - Pretty reliable, but horrible GUI integration and rollout.
9 - Much better implementation of whatever they're trying to push us toward so that it doesn't seem so awkward?

You left off Windows 2000 which was fantastic. (yes it was in the NT family but it was a perfectly legit user OS)

htismaqe
01-23-2014, 05:34 AM
LOL. Change is hard.

Especially when it's completely counter-intuitive...

Not all change is good.

Guru
01-23-2014, 05:37 AM
Especially when it's completely counter-intuitive...

Not all change is good.

I have always hated that moniker.

Change is good. ugh

I had a manager that would say that shit all the time. Unbearable. Company went out of business after I decided I had enough of it. Guess change was good. LMAO

kaplin42
01-23-2014, 08:46 AM
I think I am the only person in the universe that really likes Windows 8. Well, myself and my 8 year old daughter.

Windows 8 is SUPER easy. It may be too easy and that is where a lot of the frustration comes from, if you ask me.

I'm right there with you, I think 8 is great, even with a desktop and no touch screen. 8.1 is even better.

kaplin42
01-23-2014, 08:54 AM
Especially when it's completely counter-intuitive...

Not all change is good.

It's not really counter-intuitive. Swiping left from right to switch between programs, not that hard of a concept to grasp.

But lets say that some of the stuff isn't obvious (heaven forbid), there is a place on the internet called youtube. why not look up a 10 minute video that shows you how to use the system. Is it really that hard of a concept.

Everyone bitches about the "NO FUCKING START MENU" thing. Hello, the Metro is the start menu. Right click the tiles (if not a touch screen) and edit the start menu the way you want it. It's a hell of a lot easier than the previous versions fly out menus of a traditional start menu. Or I don't know, just type in the name of the program/file you want and it will find it for you.

You're right not all change is good, but no change can be good if one isn't willing to invest at least a small amount of effort in learning what the change was and how to use it. Quite frankly, Win 8 is fine, it's not even complicated to use if you just take 5 minutes to figure out instead of wanting to be spoon fed everything. Microsoft could have done a lot better on the delivery, and maybe a couple of actual built in tutorials, but for the most part, the issue does not land at the operating systems feet. It is a solid, stable, and remarkably fast OS.

Omaha
01-23-2014, 09:11 AM
I think Kaplin has talked me into giving it a shot. I need a new desktop & The only ones I see that have Windows 7 are more expensive. I will likely have to make the move at some point anyway.

(I'm waiting for someone to change my mind....)

Side note: Where do you guys go to buy computers? Is there a reason to go somewhere other than Best Buy? They have some pretty cheap deals on desktops right now.

Fish
01-23-2014, 09:20 AM
It's not really counter-intuitive. Swiping left from right to switch between programs, not that hard of a concept to grasp.

But lets say that some of the stuff isn't obvious (heaven forbid), there is a place on the internet called youtube. why not look up a 10 minute video that shows you how to use the system. Is it really that hard of a concept.

Everyone bitches about the "NO FUCKING START MENU" thing. Hello, the Metro is the start menu. Right click the tiles (if not a touch screen) and edit the start menu the way you want it. It's a hell of a lot easier than the previous versions fly out menus of a traditional start menu. Or I don't know, just type in the name of the program/file you want and it will find it for you.

You're right not all change is good, but no change can be good if one isn't willing to invest at least a small amount of effort in learning what the change was and how to use it. Quite frankly, Win 8 is fine, it's not even complicated to use if you just take 5 minutes to figure out instead of wanting to be spoon fed everything. Microsoft could have done a lot better on the delivery, and maybe a couple of actual built in tutorials, but for the most part, the issue does not land at the operating systems feet. It is a solid, stable, and remarkably fast OS.

Listen to yourself. You're suggesting that people should have to watch a 10 minute video just to learn how to navigate a new version of an OS that they've been comfortably using for decades. When you're used to keyboard and mouse, swiping left and right is not intuitive.

The Start menu has been a foundational component in the Windows OS for over a decade. They removed it, and didn't bother to explain why or how to easily navigate without it. It's obviously become an issue if major manufacturers are "Bringing back Win7 by popular demand". And even fans of Win8 like yourself admit that you have to watch a 10 minute video to figure it out.

There's nothing wrong with change. But it's been well over a year since Win8 was released, and still all people can say about it is that the changes suck hard. There are countless positives to Win8, but even now they've been completely overshadowed by how shitty they implemented the Metro part. That all adds up to epic fail on M$'s part.

loochy
01-23-2014, 09:22 AM
It's not really counter-intuitive. Swiping left from right to switch between programs, not that hard of a concept to grasp.


Yeah, except for the programs that use the traditional desktop way and work in a completely different way

kaplin42
01-23-2014, 09:26 AM
Listen to you, saying that having to put forth some effort and learn something new is a bad thing.

Change happens, like it or not. The "classic" windows feel was going to have to change sooner or later. It couldn't stay the same forever, and people are upset over it. I get it, but I also don't understand how it is so hard to just move on.

loochy
01-23-2014, 09:34 AM
Listen to you, saying that having to put forth some effort and learn something new is a bad thing.

Change happens, like it or not. The "classic" windows feel was going to have to change sooner or later. It couldn't stay the same forever, and people are upset over it. I get it, but I also don't understand how it is so hard to just move on.

it's a bad thing when you are trying to sell a product and people that would have otherwise been customers are migrating to other OSs