Windows 8

[La literatura]

Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

No, as a general rule always wait at least a year on a new OS. WIndows 7 is solid, why switch?

[ZepSinger]

Well, who has made the switch? Is it worth the time and $40 for the upgrade? Will my life becoming better with it?

I'm in a good position to wait until next year, when I plan to get a new touchscreen laptop with the OS. I do wonder about something tho- will the ability to use the touchscreen extend to working with programs like Photoshop or MS Office? I haven't heard yet...

[Fish]

It's not too bad once you remove all the metro features. Not sure if it's worth the upgrade though...

[Guru]

I got it for $15 but didn't upgrade.
Figure for that price I'll just wait until they work out all the bugs first.

[HC_Chief]

No, as a general rule always wait at least a year on a new OS. WIndows 7 is solid, why switch?

One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

[Saulbadguy]

I got it for $15 but didn't upgrade.
Figure for that price I'll just wait until they work out all the bugs first.

Where did you grab it for $15? Buying a new PC?

[Guru]

Where did you grab it for $15? Buying a new PC?

Yep, upgraded by laptop last month.

[htismaqe]

One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

Side by side tests of Windows 8 Consumer Preview with Windows 7 Enterprise beg to differ.

In fact, on my test machine, Windows SEVEN was slightly faster.

[Braincase]

Side by side tests of Windows 8 Consumer Preview with Windows 7 Enterprise beg to differ.

In fact, on my test machine, Windows SEVEN was slightly faster.

I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

[KILLER_CLOWN]

I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

What Vid card is in that? or what is the model number if you don't mind me asking.

[htismaqe]

I can't tell. Everything runs fast on my newest notebook that I picked up last month.

3rd Gen. i7, 32 GB RAM...:thumb:

LMAO

That's awesome.

[Braincase]

What Vid card is in that? or what is the model number if you don't mind me asking.

Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

[htismaqe]

Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

Is your usage profile "I press the power button and expect it to turn on"?

If so then yes, it wasn't built for you.

:D

[Braincase]

Is your usage profile "I press the power button and expect it to turn on"?

If so then yes, it wasn't built for you.

:D

Yeah. I thought I was getting a bargain, but after a year and half the hinge cracked along the lid, all the way through the bezel. I still use it at work, but it's a stationary unit.

This new Precision is loaded for bear... but I had to load it up to get to a price point where it qualified for .99% financing. It'll be in service for at least five years.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Nvidia Quadro K2000M

2 GB of Video Ram.

It's a Dell Precision M4700. After having an XPS, I'll never have anything other than a Precision if I'm getting a Dell. This is my 3rd Precision. The XPS had a lot of nice consumer features, but it just wasn't built for someone with my usage profile.

I know you probably don't game too much with it and I can't seem to find any reviews on the gaming performance for that chipset. I guess it's a fairly new chipset?

I have an Asus gaming laptop G73S that I was thinking of ugprading to a newer Laptop. It has an Nvidia 460m Graphics card in it and I haven't had any problems running games. I was wondering how that Video card compared as I haven't kept up lately with everything.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Windows 8 and why it's a desktop disaster
by Matthew Murray, 29 October, 2012

I sat staring at the screen, my emotions lodged somewhere between dumbfounded and despondent. From what I was seeing, I knew I'd made a horrific mistake, and restitution must be made immediately. I'd been told time and time again there was no going back; what's done is done, you have to accept it, there's no living in the past. But a violation this total demanded only one response from me.

I had to uninstall Windows 8, and I had to do it immediately.

What possessed me to put the latest version of Microsoft's flagship operating system on my home computer this past fateful weekend, I'll never know. To some extent, I'm sure, it was the persistent ministrations of my colleagues Michael Muchmore and Samara Lynn, who had been trying to sell me on Windows 8 for months. I'd dabbled in every major version since the Developer Preview, and never warmed to it, but I'd somehow succeeded in convincing myself that this time things would be different.

Yet the instant I saw my entire 1,920 x 1,200 monitor consumed with only the Windows 8 update notifications – the rest of the screen a field of white vast enough to drive Alaska to fits of murderous envy – it was clear I'd been drastically mistaken. Windows 8 is not, by any stretch of the imagination, for me. And it's time I stopped pretending otherwise.

Don't get me wrong: My feelings about it have evolved, and even softened, over the past year. At first I saw nothing of worth in this radical new spin on the tried-and-true Windows formula. But as I explored it on touch systems, rather than on my beloved (and – pardon me if I brag – insanely powerful) desktop PC, I began to discover some virtues in it. To my eye (and fingers), it's at least as good at driving such devices as iOS, and perhaps even better: It's slicker, livelier, and treats the user as more innately capable of making intelligent decisions.

More power still revealed itself when I did additional research. Being a big traditional computer guy, I live by the keyboard – and discovering and mastering Windows 8's myriad Windows key shortcuts increased and improved the level of my accomplishments. It was partially this experience, I think, that led me to believe that maybe I could deal with this on a 24/7 basis away from work.

Unfortunately, the disjointed time I'd spent with Windows 8 before did not prepare me for what using it at home would entail. After (an admittedly painless) installation, I was faced with the garish Start screen, loaded with apps that didn't interest me at all. I clicked on a couple to see how I'd respond to them. The Weather and Stock apps were pretty, no doubt – but did each one need to occupy upwards of two million pixels on my screen? Because all the Start apps open full-screen, too little information was looking much too big – and there's no way to change this.

Frustrated, I decided to check my Hotmail account (also the source of the Microsoft ID I entered while configuring Windows 8). I clicked on one new message, then another. The first wasn't marked read. Clicking on a third did mark the second one read, for some reason. I decided I wanted to file these, so I held down the mouse button and dragged the message just as on Outlook.com, but that didn't work as it had for some 17 years of Windows history. To move the message now, you have to click an icon on the bottom right of the screen to start the process; this is an unintuitive change whether you're using your finger or a mouse.

I was certain that Internet Explorer must be better. Launching it revealed the ITProPortal home page, centred on my enormous display, with gaping chasms of white on each side. Naturally, I couldn't resize the window. So I went to open a new tab. Except I couldn't do that, either: One browser window per screen.

I then fled to my safe haven, the Desktop – now treated just as any other app. No Start button, right. But I could launch Internet Explorer here. Finally! Separate windows! Tabs! Except... things didn't look very good. The smoothly elegant rounded glass of Aero has been replaced by sharp, unfriendly two-dimensional corners I was sure had gone the way of Microsoft Bob. I moved to use Windows key-D to show my bare desktop, but my finger slipped half a second too early and I was thrown back to Start.

From there, I decided maybe I should see the Control Panel. That shunted me back to the Desktop. Ditto Task Manager. Ditto any of several other deep-dive settings functions I use on a daily basis. But changing the image on the Start or Lock screens, or powering off the computer, could only be done through the new Windows 8 interface.

I gritted my teeth and endured it for as long as I could, the constant schizophrenic flipping between Start and Desktop environments propelling me ever nearer to total mental breakdown. When I decided to update a few apps from the Microsoft Store, and received the indication that wasted more 90 per cent of the screen, I knew it was time for this experiment to end. I wiped the hard drive, reinstalled Windows 7, and have not looked back since.

As I struggled to try to make sense of what was where, and more importantly why things were where they were, it became clearer than ever to me that Microsoft had never actually intended the Start screen and the Desktop to work together. So haphazard, so clunky, so confusing was everything, one could only conclude that all the company cared about was the touch market, and it was doing everything it could to discourage Desktop (and desktop) use once and for all.
Pushing past the present

Microsoft is not necessarily wrong for doing this. With tablets and other mobile systems increasing in popularity, any tech company should be courting them. And, as far as Windows 8 and its kid cousin, Windows RT, are concerned, ruling over the kingdom of touch is a real possibility. Although I'm not sure I can really say I've liked using Windows 8 on touch devices, I can absolutely say I haven't hated it.

Using it on anything else is another story. It makes everything I do more difficult. Michael and Samara have expounded at great length on what Windows 8 has to offer (see Michael’s review here), and I don't dispute much of what they have to say. But for people who want or need to use non-touch desktop or laptop computers in anything resembling the classic way, the learning curve isn't just steep – it's vertical. Windows 8 was not designed to be used that way, but I was shocked at just how unfriendly it was towards me and my way of working, and how unwelcome it made me feel for wanting to do things with minimal convolution.

I realise I'm not part of Microsoft's target audience anymore, but I still think power users like myself – I've been using Windows for 22 years – deserve better. If I've been using GUI-based operating systems for nearly three decades and this one regularly for over a year, and it still fails to suffice for basic tasks, there's something seriously wrong.

The danger Microsoft faces is also the danger it's scrupulously trying to avoid: The industry isn't the same as it once was. Phones and tablets may be taking over, but Microsoft's dominance is also threatened as it's never been before. Real alternatives are getting real attention, and they've never had a better opportunity to gobble up the people Microsoft is casting aside.

The latest versions of Mac OS X are far more usable and appealing than Windows 8. Many Linux distributions, starting with the well-known Ubuntu, have made rapid-fire about-faces in recent months to get themselves in shape to fill the vacuum Windows 8 has been creating. Both operating systems make multi-window multitasking a clean, smooth reality, acknowledging, as Microsoft will not, that most people still work that way.

Hope for us Windows lovers, however, is not necessarily lost. Microsoft has demonstrated some ability to learn from its mistakes and come back stronger. Nearly six years ago, Windows Vista fizzled upon its release, but was redeemed by a comprehensive service pack and then, within two and a half years or so, Windows 7. There's no reason it can't weave similar magic on 2012's deeply flawed OS.

But Microsoft must have the will to do so. If the future is touch, why should it waste time and resources considering how Windows 8 works with creaky keyboards and mice? What Microsoft has forgotten is that you can't get to the future without moving through the present. In trying to skip over today, the folks in Redmond have angered a lot of people – and wasted their time and monitor real estate just like they've wasted mine.

I've been forgiving of Microsoft's foibles and idiosyncrasies for a long time, but my patience has about run out. If Microsoft wants me to use Windows 8 or a touch system, it has to give me a concrete reason – and one boring app per screen ain't gonna cut it. Otherwise, I'll stick with Windows 7 – and maybe even dual-boot Linux with it at the same time. Those two operating systems together give me everything I need. Windows 8 doesn't come close. Worse still, it doesn't even try.

Published under license from Ziff Davis, Inc., New York, All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2012 Ziff Davis, Inc

Read more: http://www.itproportal.com/2012/10/29/windows-8-and-why-its-a-desktop-disaster/#ixzz2AlGq0rlX

[htismaqe]

That review echoes my thoughts almost exactly, especially the toggling back and forth between Metro and the desktop.

I said several times that the new Start menu felt like a bolt-on and that the overall integration was poor.

[Saulbadguy]

I don't see an overwhelming reason to upgrade at this point - and i'm an early adopter. I upgraded day 1 with W7, Vista, XP, 2000...

[Braincase]

I know you probably don't game too much with it and I can't seem to find any reviews on the gaming performance for that chipset. I guess it's a fairly new chipset?

I have an Asus gaming laptop G73S that I was thinking of ugprading to a newer Laptop. It has an Nvidia 460m Graphics card in it and I haven't had any problems running games. I was wondering how that Video card compared as I haven't kept up lately with everything.

Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

[htismaqe]

So I just had a discussion with a customer about Surface, RT, and Windows 8. They're a BIG fan and say they much prefer Microsoft's solution vs. the iPad and Android. Why?

Because it runs all the shit they already run. That's the pitch, right there.

Great new features? Maybe. But it runs Office!

I've come to realize that most of our discussion is misplaced. Of course the potential $1200 price tag is too high - for a HOME USER.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

So it will run a bit slower than my 460M but have newer features obviously since it's 2 or 3 generations ahead. Thanks for the link. The only thing I don't like about my Asus G73S is the size, it's rather bulky to carry around with the 17" screen.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

I don't see an overwhelming reason to upgrade at this point - and i'm an early adopter. I upgraded day 1 with W7, Vista, XP, 2000...

I really like Windows 7, the only real negative is the WINSXS directory which grows by the day. It seems the most stable MS operating system to date.

[Jive Ass]

I made the switch. I wanted to reformat, anyway. It just seemed like a good time to try something new, especially since I never really make OS switches early on.

After installation, I would say in getting used to going back and forth between Metro and the desktop, I actually find myself utilizing most of the search functions and accessing programs much quicker than on Windows 7.

I can't say the switch was hiccup free, as I had quite a few things to tweak to my liking, but I'm not upset about the switch in any way. It's fast as hell, as someone mentioned.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Review (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K2000M.76893.0.html)

here is a link to my current vid card

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-460M.33612.0.html

DDR5 as opposed to DDR3. Oh and btw thanks for the link to that site, I have been looking for a site like that for a while.

[Braincase]

I made the switch. I wanted to reformat, anyway. It just seemed like a good time to try something new, especially since I never really make OS switches early on.

After installation, I would say in getting used to going back and forth between Metro and the desktop, I actually find myself utilizing most of the search functions and accessing programs much quicker than on Windows 7.

I can't say the switch was hiccup free, as I had quite a few things to tweak to my liking, but I'm not upset about the switch in any way. It's fast as hell, as someone mentioned.

The Ultimate List of Windows 8 Keyboard Shortcuts (http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-8-keyboard-shortcuts-global-list)

They do come in handy.

[Jive Ass]

They really do. Also, activating GodMode should rid any of the woes others feel by having to search around for the locations of some of these settings. That being said, if you're comfortable on Windows 7, the only thing you're gaining from the switch is the speed. If you're not really into a separate interface for apps like Netflix, Kindle, media, etc. then you'll probably just get annoyed.

[htismaqe]

They really do. Also, activating GodMode should rid any of the woes others feel by having to search around for the locations of some of these settings. That being said, if you're comfortable on Windows 7, the only thing you're gaining from the switch is the speed. If you're not really into a separate interface for apps like Netflix, Kindle, media, etc. then you'll probably just get annoyed.

On my PC windows 8 was not faster.

Having to drop to desktop to run non-integrated apps was a major drawback (although somebody said Google Chrome is now fixed).

[MoreLemonPledge]

I've actually read quite a few positive reviews, much more so than negative ones.

I enjoy it quite a bit. Yes, there's a learning curve, but once you get past the fact that it's different, you'll see that the changes actually make sense for the most part. The switching between Metro/Start and Desktop can be a bit jarring initially, but it's really not that bad. It should work really well on a tablet.

I should admit that I have a Windows Phone and Xbox 360, so this Metro styling is quite familiar to me already. Regardless, once you get over the fact that it's different, you can begin to appreciate the innovations.

[Jive Ass]

On my PC windows 8 was not faster.

Having to drop to desktop to run non-integrated apps was a major drawback (although somebody said Google Chrome is now fixed).

Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

[Pushead2]

I'm thinking about upgrade but to be honest, I'm waiting for a "sold" moment where I'll be like - okay I'm in.

[htismaqe]

Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

Clean install on a separate HDD that had previously been with wiped all 1's and formatted NTFS as part of the Win 8 install.

I was using Consumer Preview (I believe the build was 8250, but can't recall for sure).

[htismaqe]

I've actually read quite a few positive reviews, much more so than negative ones.

I enjoy it quite a bit. Yes, there's a learning curve, but once you get past the fact that it's different, you'll see that the changes actually make sense for the most part. The switching between Metro/Start and Desktop can be a bit jarring initially, but it's really not that bad. It should work really well on a tablet.

I should admit that I have a Windows Phone and Xbox 360, so this Metro styling is quite familiar to me already. Regardless, once you get over the fact that it's different, you can begin to appreciate the innovations.

That's really my complaint.

On a tablet or touchscreen, it would be great.

On a regular desktop, Metro is completely superfluous. It doesn't really make anything more convenient at all.

And if you're using an app that isn't written for Windows 8, you have to drop out of Metro to desktop anyway.

[Braincase]

I'm going to get a tablet, I just need to wait on the Windows 8 Pro systems to ship next month. I still have a thing for the ASUS TaiChi.

[MoreLemonPledge]

I'm going to get a tablet, I just need to wait on the Windows 8 Pro systems to ship next month. I still have a thing for the ASUS TaiChi.

Get the Surface. It's a pretty nice piece of hardware.

[HC_Chief]

Did you do a clean install on a separate partition or do a Windows upgrade? I'm only curious because so many people have had trouble with the straight upgrade, and perhaps that influenced the speed of the operating system. I assume you did a separate install, but I figured I'd ask.

I did an upgrade and it is smoking fast... faster than W7.

Lenovo W520, i7, 16GB RAM, SSD :D

[htismaqe]

Here's something interesting.

All of you guys that are saying it's faster than Win 7 are running Intel-based platforms, mostly I7, with quite a bit of RAM. Are you running 64 or 32-bit?

I only had a copy of 32-bit Windows 7 Enterprise to test with so I was running 32-bit Windows 8 consumer preview on an AMD Athlon dualcore platform with only 4GB of RAM.

Windows 7 was definitely faster by a small margin.

[HC_Chief]

Here's something interesting.

All of you guys that are saying it's faster than Win 7 are running Intel-based platforms, mostly I7, with quite a bit of RAM. Are you running 64 or 32-bit?

I only had a copy of 32-bit Windows 7 Enterprise to test with so I was running 32-bit Windows 8 consumer preview on an AMD Athlon dualcore platform with only 4GB of RAM.

Windows 7 was definitely faster by a small margin.

64-bit OS EntEd
32-bit Office 2010 & 2013 Pro

[htismaqe]

64-bit OS EntEd
32-bit Office 2010 & 2013 Pro

Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

[HC_Chief]

Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

Probably; also helps that the interface is greatly simplified so fewer resources needed for the GUI.

I LOVE the desktop search functionality. Much better than a start menu (or any menu, for that matter). It is so nice to be able to start typing and it lists your apps.

The Desktop drives me nuts. I do not like having a Start screen and a Desktop. I don't get why it was done that way; especially since you cannot "skin" your OS to one or the other, exclusively. At least is is easy to switch: hit Windows key or click/swipe in left corner.

[Fish]

Hmm...kind of what I expected. I wonder if the increase in speed you guys are seeing is just the evolution of the OS, aka it's newer so it's better optimized for higher-end hardware and more RAM.

Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.

Now here’s the key difference for Windows 8: as in Windows 7, we close the user sessions, but instead of closing the kernel session, we hibernate it. Compared to a full hibernate, which includes a lot of memory pages in use by apps, session 0 hibernation data is much smaller, which takes substantially less time to write to disk. If you’re not familiar with hibernation, we’re effectively saving the system state and memory contents to a file on disk (hiberfil.sys) and then reading that back in on resume and restoring contents back to memory. Using this technique with boot gives us a significant advantage for boot times, since reading the hiberfile in and reinitializing drivers is much faster on most systems (30-70% faster on most systems we’ve tested).

It’s faster because resuming the hibernated system session is comparatively less work than doing a full system initialization, but it’s also faster because we added a new multi-phase resume capability, which is able to use all of the cores in a multi-core system in parallel, to split the work of reading from the hiberfile and decompressing the contents. For those of you who prefer hibernating, this also results in faster resumes from hibernate as well.

More: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/08/delivering-fast-boot-times-in-windows-8.aspx

Win8 also uses EUFI instead of BIOS on EUFI capable mobos. If you have a EUFI supported mobo, that alone will reduce boot time by quite a bit.

EUFI: http://gcn.com/articles/2012/10/31/say-goodbye-bios-hello-uefi.aspx

[htismaqe]

Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.

That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

[Fish]

That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Well in my experience, Win8 does boot faster on a wide variety of machines. And that seems to be the overwhelming consensus from everywhere else too. Googling Windows 8 boot time shows just about every link reporting faster boot times. There are even reports that running Win8 on a SSD boots so fast that you only have 200ms to hit F8 if you want Safe Mode, and it's not enough time for most people to catch it. That's part of the reason MS introduced the Boot Options within the OS.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Boot-Time-Too-Fast-BIOS-Boot-Options,15738.html

[HC_Chief]

That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Could be crap in the startup slowing you down. Once you're in W8, launch Task Manager and switch to the Startup tab. Disable the crap you don't need at startup there. It can make a HUGE difference in boot times (this holds true for W7 as well)

[htismaqe]

Could be crap in the startup slowing you down. Once you're in W8, launch Task Manager and switch to the Startup tab. Disable the crap you don't need at startup there. It can make a HUGE difference in boot times (this holds true for W7 as well)

Yeah, I hadn't done any real tweaking. Does that mean that by default, Windows 8 has more "crap" in startup?

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Well in my experience, Win8 does boot faster on a wide variety of machines. And that seems to be the overwhelming consensus from everywhere else too. Googling Windows 8 boot time shows just about every link reporting faster boot times. There are even reports that running Win8 on a SSD boots so fast that you only have 200ms to hit F8 if you want Safe Mode, and it's not enough time for most people to catch it. That's part of the reason MS introduced the Boot Options within the OS.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Boot-Time-Too-Fast-BIOS-Boot-Options,15738.html

I reboot my machine every 4-7 days, so waiting 30 seconds isn't that big of a deal to me.

[HC_Chief]

Yeah, I hadn't done any real tweaking. Does that mean that by default, Windows 8 has more "crap" in startup?

I don't think so. The list on my laptop looked similar to what was listed in W7 (not surprising, as I performed an upgrade).

Just something to test.

[Fruit Ninja]

Finally installed windows 8 and my computer is like not 2-4 years old, its been a while since i upgraded and windows 8 is running faster then windows 7 so far. I only have 4 gigs of ram and so far apps are popping up very very fast. Its pretty impressive so far.

Anyways, i dont mind switching since its so damned easy to do. Also, i did a clean install.

[RippedmyFlesh]

[quote=KC Fish;9077512]Win8 uses a different boot method than Win7. It's a sort of hybrid boot that incorporates a lot of hibernation behavior instead of the traditional cold boot. The kernel isn't completely closed at shutdown like in previous Windows versions, it's actually in a hibernation state.



Does disconnecting power(pull battery and power cord) get you to the point that someone could F8 at start up ?
I am thinking of a machine that has issues like malware.

[Fish]

Does disconnecting power(pull battery and power cord) get you to the point that someone could F8 at start up ?
I am thinking of a machine that has issues like malware.

You can still F8 at startup just like you've always been able to. That feature is still the same. The only difference there is that the amount of time you have to hit F8 before it continues to boot has been greatly reduced. It works the same way, it's just infinitely faster now.

[JASONSAUTO]

Fish unrelated but you are the man on this...

My little one wants an I pad. Momma has the four, grandma has the three. She uses both but she is young and I'm thinking about the two with 16 gig. Is that enough for a young girl. Probably would put games on it she doesn't download movies or anything like that at this point
Posted via Mobile Device

[RippedmyFlesh]

You can still F8 at startup just like you've always been able to. That feature is still the same. The only difference there is that the amount of time you have to hit F8 before it continues to boot has been greatly reduced. It works the same way, it's just infinitely faster now.

Ty.
I've used it a little at work but will wait until I get new hardware at home before I try it. I never buy new computers for myself I always just piece together rigs from left over parts on jobs I have done. When I do break down and by some decent hardware I will use it at home.

[Fish]

Fish unrelated but you are the man on this...

My little one wants an I pad. Momma has the four, grandma has the three. She uses both but she is young and I'm thinking about the two with 16 gig. Is that enough for a young girl. Probably would put games on it she doesn't download movies or anything like that at this point
Posted via Mobile Device

Absolutely. Unless you're planning on storing a bunch of movies or music on it, go for the 16GB for sure. The biggest games available for iPad are around 500-700MB. But most are much much smaller. My girl is 7, and she uses my iPad a great deal. Especially on road trips and such. Took her about 30 seconds to figure out navigation and apps. I have the 32GB model. That allows me to store about a dozen kids movies and a couple seasons of Phineas and Ferb and Scooby Doo, about 100 games, education apps, and interactive books, and I still have 7GB of free space on it.

Honestly, I think the iPad2 is still the best model. I'm a bigger fan of it than the new one.

[JASONSAUTO]

Absolutely. Unless you're planning on storing a bunch of movies or music on it, go for the 16GB for sure. The biggest games available for iPad are around 500-700MB. But most are much much smaller. My girl is 7, and she uses my iPad a great deal. Especially on road trips and such. Took her about 30 seconds to figure out navigation and apps. I have the 32GB model. That allows me to store about a dozen kids movies and a couple seasons of Phineas and Ferb and Scooby Doo, about 100 games, education apps, and interactive books, and I still have 7GB of free space on it.

Honestly, I think the iPad2 is still the best model. I'm a bigger fan of it than the new one.
Mine is 7 also. She does all kinds of stuff on moms and grandmas. Thanks a ton, man. That's what I'm going with.
Posted via Mobile Device

[JASONSAUTO]

Plus moms four is a 32. If we need some extra space.she doesn't use anywhere near that much at this point.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GloryDayz]

Since everything was headed the Win8 way, I did the $15 upgrade to the son's computer. Had some issues, but those were some quality hours spent with people in India.... ALPS Touchpad Utility wouldn't come out, and Win8 wouldn't load until it did! Camera didn't work until Dell Software was removed. And after a mere 4 months, Dell doesn't bother to tell you the Trend Micro won't work. At least that upgrade was free.

Over all, it is what it is. It is faster. It's a new interface, but hey, so was the first time I tried a Mac. It's not that hard.

I do hate how everything is tied to a Microsoft account. Seems very Mac-like! I'll figure ways around that too!

As for the Metro Start screen, Meh, it's fine. For those saying it causes cancer, haters are gonna hate!

It was worth $15 buck. And I'm sure a high school kid will love it.

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Sounds horrible. My computer is fast enough.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Upgraded my laptop today. So far I like it. Seems to run faster. I have to get used to a few new things though. I also installed Office 2013 at the same time which is pretty cool also.

[Deberg_1990]

Just upgraded an old Dell pc to win 8 today. It's 5 years old and only has 2 gig of ram. Seems to run just fine so far. It will take some getting used to though. Anyone have a link for a tutorial or tips and tricks?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Unsmooth-Moment]

I like it so far. Haven't gotten to dig in too deep yet, but I like the interface.

[KCWolfman]

If your pc starting faster is worth the cost, then yes. If not, no. It is just like having widgets on an android phone. I find myself flipping to desktop every time I sign on.

[KCWolfman]

That seems to imply that booting up, in particular, should be much faster on Windows 8.

That's the opposite of my experience actually.

Even after going into the user controls and removing the mandatory login, etc., the off-to-usable time on Windows 7 is about 10% less.

Weird, I boot in less than 20 seconds. It was taking almost 1 minute and 20 seconds under Windows 7. Honestly, it just isn't that important to me though.

[kcfanXIII]

i'm a student right now, and using office 2010. what are some of these upgrades i'm hearing about with office 2013?

[Braincase]

Looks like the office is going to pick up a Microsoft Surface Pro for me to use in class, once they become available next month. I'm looking forward to it.

[Fish]

Looks like the office is going to pick up a Microsoft Surface Pro for me to use in class, once they become available next month. I'm looking forward to it.

:thumb:

Job perks like that are awesome..

[bevischief]

I don't like it.

[DaFace]

I got a new lappy that came with Win8 a few weeks ago. They've made some nice incremental improvements to the core OS that I like just fine. All the "surface" shit is obnoxious. I added a third-party app to give me back my start menu, and it's fine.

[Buck]

I got a new lappy that came with Win8 a few weeks ago. They've made some nice incremental improvements to the core OS that I like just fine. All the "surface" shit is obnoxious. I added a third-party app to give me back my start menu, and it's fine.

Please tell me which one. I can't stand the dashboard.

[DaveNull]

It's called install.exe. You can find it on your Windows 7 disc.

[DaFace]

Please tell me which one. I can't stand the dashboard.

I'm using Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). You can try it for 30 days free, and it's $5 to buy. It seems to work pretty well, but for some reason the text gets all screwy on mine (faded to the point you can't see it) if I don't restart for a long time. It's livable, but annoying.

I think there are a few others out there, but that one seems to be the closest to completely replicating the old start menu's functionality directly.

[Fish]

I suggest RetroUI. Sounds very similar to DaFace's suggestion, but it's the one I use and it works great. Also $5, but worth it. $5 gets 3 licenses.

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-completely-remove-metro-ui-from-windows-8/

[Fish]

Here's how to manually disable most of Metro.. You still have to fiddle with some file associations so they don't open in Metro apps, but it helps quite a bit for free..

http://techmell.com/how-to/disable-metro-ui-windows-8/

[Guru]

Why M$ didn't set up the system to run with or without Metro in the first place is baffling to me. Why take away the one thing that was WINDOWS in the Start button. From everything I have seen, unless you have a touch screen monitor, there is absolutely no use for Metro at all. Hell, even with a touch screen monitor, who the hell wants to reach across to their monitor every time they want to do something.

[Miles]

Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

[DaFace]

Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

That doesn't go away. They just outright fucked up. There's already talk of M$ putting the start menu back in in a future service pack. It's that bad.

[Fruit Ninja]

lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

[htismaqe]

lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

Multitasking is virtually impossible.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

[loochy]

Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

It's not always good either.

[htismaqe]

Damn people, change is not bad. You had to learn how to use windows the first time. I personally love windows 8 and have no issue multitasking. I can't wait to have virtually the same os on all my electronic devices.

Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

[DaFace]

lol, once you figure out how to use it and where stuff is (yes, a little learning curve for people who arent good with computers) its pretty damned easy.


I have no issues with the lay out and how to use it. Its pretty easy once you mess with it for about 15 minutes.

I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.

[KCWolfman]

Just got a new laptop today with Windows 8. My first reaction is wanting to shut most of these new features off. Initially hate the metro start menu.

Guess if you put applications you use on the quick launch or desktop you don't really have to use it?

That's what I do. I still get the benefits of the fast startup and use my old 7 style desktop.

[KCWolfman]

Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

Yeah, the drawn password thing is ridiculous for a desktop without a touch sensitive screen.

[penguinz]

I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.Just start typing the name of the app and it comes up. No need to scroll and hunt.

[DaFace]

Just start typing the name of the app and it comes up. No need to scroll and hunt.

...or I could just use the old start menu and find what I need in two clicks.

[penguinz]

...or I could just use the old start menu and find what I need in two clicks.Or you can learn to adapt to a faster method. ;) Using the mouse to hunt and click is time consuming.

[DaFace]

Or you can learn to adapt to a faster method. ;) Using the mouse to hunt and click is time consuming.

I suppose if you have trouble with the concept of alphabetization, you're right. :p

[Fruit Ninja]

I gave it a full week before giving up. I know I'm a power user, but I just got really tired of having to hunt through five pages of scrolling with my mouse just to find a program I want to use. I know you can pin things, but I use such a variety of apps that it'd take me forever to find things.

Not to mention that Metro is a completely different ecosystem than the core Windows OS. It'd be one thing if they were fluidly merged, but switching back and forth all the time is just stupid.

if you click on the right corner and hit the search button EVERYTHING pops up. ALl your apps/programs and everything. Imo,i think its faster then the start button menu. Maybe not by much, but its faster and everything is there you need.

[Miles]

Change is not bad.

It's also not always necessary.

My PC is not a tablet or a smartphone. So therefore, I can do without a tablet OS on my PC.

Yeah its just really goofy to have two completely different interfaces like this. I keep wondering what I am supposed to do with the tablet like apps with a laptop.

This touchpad swipe to toggle between the desktop and metro is also driving me nuts. Need to shut it off.

[TomSlash]

One word: SPEED

W8 is FAAAAAASSSSSSSTT

By far this is the fastest OS (with a GUI) I have ever used. Server 2012 is the same.

makes your screen look like a fisher price though boy!

[Pushead2]

I'm still not sold on updating.

[Miles]

I am now fully in the corner of those that hate the metro interface. Seems like a great OS for speed but the tablet portion of the OS is obnoxious as hell for a laptop.

[Vegas_Dave]

I am now fully in the corner of those that hate the metro interface. Seems like a great OS for speed but the tablet portion of the OS is obnoxious as hell for a laptop.

I thought this as well when testing beta versions. However, the final version I think is much better, especially with the touch pad features enabled. Still takes a little getting used to though.

I do think that for a touch screen setup that Windows 8 is pretty stellar. I bought a budget closeout all in one gateway for Christmas that had a Windows 7 touch screen (2 point touch rather than Windows 8 preferred 5 point) that I upgraded to 8 and it is a great machine now where it was only ok with 7.

I still don't like 8 for a traditional desktop though that only has a keyboard and mouse.

[Guru]

Any more converts? I have had my copy for 2 months now but still haven't installed it.

[htismaqe]

I got a copy of Windows 7 Pro yesterday for $55.

Thank God for Windows 8! :)

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I read an article the other day calling Win8 the new Vista.

[DaFace]

I read an article the other day calling Win8 the new Vista.

I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

[Saulbadguy]

I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and buy Windows 8 for $39.99 - but just hold on to the license for now until there is a reason to upgrade.

[htismaqe]

I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

This.

[DaFace]

I do have to say...it's crazy how consistent Microsoft is when it comes to quality releases vs. crap releases. They basically put out a release with all sorts of half-assed new ideas that don't work very well, then fix them all a couple years later.

Windows 95 - Innovative, but buggy
Windows 98 - Not many changes, but much more stable
Windows ME - Pure crap / Windows 2000 - Compatibility issues
Windows XP - Most stable OS yet and few compatibility issues
Windows Vista - Ultra shitty performance
Windows 7 - Runs great
Windows 8 - Shitty integration of Metro UI
Windows 9 - (I bet it'll be much more cohesive by that point)

[kaplin42]

Some things that may help.

Think of the metro as the new start menu (and for god's sake type the name of the program you want. Hell even in 7 and Vista this was faster than clicking)

Learn some keyboard shortcuts (there is an app for that) such as Windows Key + M to go to the desktop. Windows Key to go back to the metro.

And I didn't read the entire thread, so this may be mentioned already but if you absolutely cannot stand metro, try this Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). It will bring back the traditional windows desktop and start menu. This will work for people who are running 8 on laptops or desktops without touchscreens.

I will say that I hate the IE app from the metro and use IE from the desktop. I have a Surface RT so no other browsers yet.

[Saulbadguy]

I rarely use the start menu. I don't see why people are so butthurt about that.

[DaFace]

I rarely use the start menu. I don't see why people are so butthurt about that.

Just personal style, I suppose. I use it all the time.

[Deberg_1990]

I think that's a bit unfair. Vista just plain ran like shit, where Windows 8 runs fine.

The problem with Windows 8 is that, for a desktop user, there's really nothing that has improved over Windows 7. They made a few minor tweaks to the desktop UI, but nothing major. The biggest change is all the Metro bullshit, and most people on desktops don't care.

Yea, im not sure why MS didnt have a seperate OS for tablets and desktops? I feel like Win8 is some sort of strange hybrid/bridge OS.

[kaplin42]

Yea, im not sure why MS didnt have a seperate OS for tablets and desktops? I feel like Win8 is some sort of strange nybrid/bridge OS.

TBH it didn't need to be separate, but there should have been an option in the Control Panel or something

New Metro
Traditional Windows Desktop

If you have a tablet or touchscreen, the metro is nice and easy. With a standard desktop/laptop, it is definatly a bit awkward, at best.

[KevB]

TBH it didn't need to be separate, but there should have been an option in the Control Panel or something

New Metro
Traditional Windows Desktop

If you have a tablet or touchscreen, the metro is nice and easy. With a standard desktop/laptop, it is definatly a bit awkward, at best.

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere, but kaplin's sig is utterly mesmerizing. I wanna be friends with it.

[DaveNull]

I managed to get my hands on a Windows 8 machine and wow is it bad. Maybe it's the hardware (it's an Acer laptop and the build quality reminds me of my old Asus 4G Surf) but I kind of doubt it.

Things that are nice:

- The ability to sync settings across multiple machines
- The weather app
- searching for apps works well, but just looking for "windows update" didn't return anything
- I like the design direction on a lot of the typefaces. The minimal presentation sure looks good on a mockup, but doesn't seem to work as well in reality.
- Anti-aliasing seems to be different, but that could be the screen. Sublime Text looked pretty good right out of the box without any tweaks.

Things that suck

- All the crap that Acer pre-loaded
- "Your internet connection isn't fast enough to download this app"
- Window management in Metro
- having to sign up for a Windows account so you can attach a Gmail account to the Mail app

Things that are completely unexplainable

- If you move the mouse to the bottom corner to show the start icon (or whatever it's called) and move the mouse a pixel away to click on the actual icon it disappears.
- No one unified set of settings and preferences
- No progress bar or status of app installs from the store (that I could see)

I'm going to pull an image of this thing for science and then send it along. Like Vista, this is an OS that I'll hopefully be interacting with through my forensics tools instead of using it.

[-King-]

Getting a new laptop today with W8. I already feel as if I'm going to hate it and I'm not even a big computer guy. I didn't even really hate Windows vista.

[DaFace]

Getting a new laptop today with W8. I already feel as if I'm going to hate it and I'm not even a big computer guy. I didn't even really hate Windows vista.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

[candyman]

Its a well known fact that every other Windows OS sucks. 7 was great so I don't understand why people are surprised that 8 isnt.

[Guru]

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ I prefer Classic Shell.

[ArrowheadHawk]

I really like windows 8. One ty out know how to use it it works better than 7.

[Braincase]

If you do any sort of Powershell scripting, check out the Powershell ISE in Windows 8. One of the single best features ever.

[Braincase]

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Start8 rocks. Their full-blown add-on is very interesting.

[-King-]

I'm getting used to it. It's actually not that bad.

[Saulbadguy]

If you do any sort of Powershell scripting, check out the Powershell ISE in Windows 8. One of the single best features ever.

Looks like they ripped off PowerGUI.