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View Full Version : Chiefs Dontari Poe... a bright spot in this terrible season?


Buckweath
10-30-2012, 02:57 PM
I thought he played good against the Raiders and decent overall the last few games. Sure, I would like him to give better push in the passing game but he's held his ground in the running game. Poe is on pace to record the exact same stats as Ngata in his rookie season.

Anyone has his PFF rating for the last game and overall this season?

And anyone thinks he's doing better than Dorsey and Jackson in their rookie season, not that it's hard to beat but well, he was supposed to be much more of a project than those two??

Bump
10-30-2012, 03:01 PM
I've seen him make 2 or 3 plays so far this season, better than TJ

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 03:02 PM
I said before that Poe was a terrific pick and exactly the kind of risky picks the Chiefs should be making. Even if he busts, he's the rare type of player you have to find in the first round.

lcarus
10-30-2012, 03:11 PM
I've called Poe a bust a few times out of pure anger towards Pioli due to his draft track record and due to how awful this season has been. Realistically though, it's going to take time to see how he pans out.

loochy
10-30-2012, 03:12 PM
That's like saying you found a clean spot after you crapped in your pants.

bevischief
10-30-2012, 03:13 PM
He needs a real couching staff. Not clowns.

Marcellus
10-30-2012, 03:14 PM
He needs a real couching staff. Not clowns.

Yea I have seen him try to sit on a couch and it was pretty embarrassing.

Fucking Pioli, even the furniture is shit!

Strongside
10-30-2012, 03:17 PM
He has played well and showed up in the past few games. He's getting doubled damn near every play but is still getting decent push most of the time. Another reason that this team is an easy rebuild for whoever steps in after the Nazis are defeated.

jd1020
10-30-2012, 03:20 PM
Yea I have seen him try to sit on a couch and it was pretty embarrassing.

****ing Pioli, even the furniture is shit!

Poe is one lazy boy.

MagicHef
10-30-2012, 03:31 PM
Here are his overall ratings each week:

-0.8
-0.8
-0.9
-0.8
+0.4
-0.1
-0.6

The Oakland game was his best against the run, +0.5, but it was also his worst rushing the passer, -1.3.

MagicHef
10-30-2012, 03:34 PM
Basically, he's about average, which is very good for a rookie project DL, especially since he has been playing a lot of snaps (he only missed 6 plays against Oakland).

Ace Gunner
10-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Here are his overall ratings each week:

-0.8
-0.8
-0.9
-0.8
+0.4
-0.1
-0.6

The Oakland game was his best against the run, +0.5, but it was also his worst rushing the passer, -1.3.

Can you put TJ's up? I'd like to see it.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 03:57 PM
I've called Poe a bust a few times out of pure anger towards Pioli due to his draft track record and due to how awful this season has been. Realistically though, it's going to take time to see how he pans out.

Poe was a great pick because he is exactly the kind of ballsy pick Pioli has refused to make in 4 years. It just happened 4 years too late.

MagicHef
10-30-2012, 04:01 PM
Can you put TJ's up? I'd like to see it.

Rookie or current?

Ace Gunner
10-30-2012, 04:01 PM
Rookie or current?

this season

Brock
10-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Poe was a great pick because he is exactly the kind of ballsy pick Pioli has refused to make in 4 years. It just happened 4 years too late.

ROFL ballsy pick

MagicHef
10-30-2012, 04:06 PM
this season

-0.3
-0.6
-0.3
-1.7
-0.9
+1.3
0.0

Ace Gunner
10-30-2012, 04:09 PM
-0.3
-0.6
-0.3
-1.7
-0.9
+1.3
0.0

thx. about what i imagined.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:11 PM
ROFL ballsy pick

Picking a guy with a bad resume with a lower division school to play the most important position on your defense is a ballsy pick. It's one of the first moves Pioli made that didn't feel like a conservative pick.

And it's a great pick because Poe isn't a traditional nose tackle. He's a guy whose upside is to be the rare Vince Wilfork player who can play nose tackle well, but also has ability to play 3 downs because he can play across the line.

scho63
10-30-2012, 04:13 PM
That's like saying you found a clean spot after you crapped in your pants.

OH LORD I JUST PISSED MY PANTS LAUGHING!!!!

ROFLROFLROFL


YOU SHARE MY HUMOUR!

Rausch
10-30-2012, 04:15 PM
Picking a guy with a bad resume with a lower division school to play the most important position on your defense is a ballsy pick.

So would me picking a fight with a 275 lb marine be ballsy?

Or just really fucking stupid?...

KC Tattoo
10-30-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't believe another GM was going to risk Poe in the first round. Just don't believe they would have. Also play Powe. We didn't need a high risk in Poe with having Powe who is stout and can plug the hole. Powe has power. He isn't getting the playing time but I think he should be getting plenty of it.

Don't tell me the coaches know what they are doing @ 1-6.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 04:33 PM
ROFL ballsy pick

Yeah, that was about as funny as calling him a "bright spot."

It wasn't that long ago that people here were calling Dorsey and Jackson Top 10 run defenders, and claimed they'd be even better with a solid NT in the middle.

KC's run defense ranking as of October 30, 2012?

23rd.


Yep. A real bright spot on this supposed Top 10 defense.

(which is currently ranked 29th overall)

A lot of folks here have completely overrated the level of talent on this roster. And some continue to do so.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Yeah, that was about as funny as calling him a "bright spot."

It wasn't that long ago that people here were calling Dorsey and Jackson Top 10 run defenders, and claimed they'd be even better with a solid NT in the middle.

KC's run defense ranking as of October 30, 2012?

23rd.


Yep. A real bright spot on this supposed Top 10 defense.

(which is currently ranked 29th overall)

I wouldn't call him a bright spot. He has a long way to go. But he's not anything close to a bust yet. And his upside is tremendous.

It's a good pick. I hate Pioli's history of ultra-conservative picks that are safe. This is the one pick where Pioli finally decided to go after an important position and gamble on a guy who has boom/bust written all over him.

It's a damn shame he has been too stubborn to do the same at other positions, especially QB.

mcaj22
10-30-2012, 04:38 PM
better pick than Jon Baldwin that's for sure

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:38 PM
So would me picking a fight with a 275 lb marine be ballsy?

Or just really ****ing stupid?...

What about this pick right now leads you to believe it's really fucking stupid?

Poe has upside a lot of nose tackles don't have. It was a good pick. Clear boom / bust. He's either going to be a rare talent at nose tackle, or he's going to suck. That's exactly the kind of gamble you make on a nose tackle. I'd take that pick all day long over a 2-down guy like Cody, whose playing style is becoming obsolete in the NFL.

BigMeatballDave
10-30-2012, 04:40 PM
A lot of folks here have completely overrated the level of talent on this roster. And some continue to do so.It wasn't just us here. The media thought highly of it, as well.

The roster could certainly use some help, but it's better than you think.

The shit coaching staff we have doesn't help.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 04:42 PM
It wasn't just us here. The media thought highly of it, as well.

The roster could certainly use some help, but it's better than you think.

The shit coaching staff we have doesn't help.

The media thought highly of it simply because they think highly of Scott Pioli.

Well, at least they did before this season.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:46 PM
The media thought highly of it simply because they think highly of Scott Pioli.

Well, at least they did before this season.

No, the media thought highly of it because they somehow didn't realize Romeo would wreck this team this soon.

This team even with a bad QB and good coaching is a fringe playoff team. We would likely be a playoff team in a bad division. That's not good enough. But if we played as hard as we did in the second half of last year, and you add in Charles, Hillis, Moeaki, Winston, and Berry, we should be a hell of a lot better. This team is better than critics suggest. But then again... even with great coaching, this team isn't anything more than a 1-and-done playoff team until they get a real QB, so I'm happy with the way things are going.

J Diddy
10-30-2012, 04:56 PM
What about this pick right now leads you to believe it's really ****ing stupid?

Poe has upside a lot of nose tackles don't have. It was a good pick. Clear boom / bust. He's either going to be a rare talent at nose tackle, or he's going to suck. That's exactly the kind of gamble you make on a nose tackle. I'd take that pick all day long over a 2-down guy like Cody, whose playing style is becoming obsolete in the NFL.

It was a ballsy pick for sure. One approach I wish they'd have made with a quarterback.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:57 PM
It was a ballsy pick for sure. One approach I wish they'd have made with a quarterback.

Exactly. But still... if not a QB, I'm okay with it being a nose tackle.

keg in kc
10-30-2012, 05:22 PM
He's starting to show "flashes" as the old coach would say.

It's a good sign when he's getting in the backfield just behind the snap, and he's done that a couple times the last few weeks. I didn't expect him to even be playing yet at this point, and maybe he wouldn't have been without injuries, but there are some signs that maybe there's something there.

Woodchuck
10-30-2012, 06:31 PM
I thought he played good against the Raiders and decent overall the last few games. Sure, I would like him to give better push in the passing game but he's held his ground in the running game. Poe is on pace to record the exact same stats as Ngata in his rookie season.

Anyone has his PFF rating for the last game and overall this season?

And anyone thinks he's doing better than Dorsey and Jackson in their rookie season, not that it's hard to beat but well, he was supposed to be much more of a project than those two??

He and Allen have been bright spots imo. Poe is way ahead of Sims, Jackson, or Dorsey imo. He is very athletic and I think he is still very raw. When he starts to really grasp the system he could be very very good imo. He looks like a solid draft pick at this point.

petegz28
10-30-2012, 06:50 PM
When Bill Maas broke down the game on MSN Redzone last night he had nothing but good things to say about Poe. Poe is coming along. It's too bad he is in a defense where he is not allowed to do anything but be a blocker

Tombstone RJ
10-30-2012, 06:53 PM
poe sucks. get used to it.

Saccopoo
10-30-2012, 07:05 PM
I wouldn't call him a bright spot. He has a long way to go. But he's not anything close to a bust yet. And his upside is tremendous.

Berry's upside is tremendous.
Berry's production has been poor this season.

Baldwin's upside is tremendous.
Baldwin's production has been non-existent this season.

Poe's upside is tremendous.
Poe's production has been sub-mediocre this season.

That's three drafts in a row with top 10 guys with really nothing to show for it.

That's a complete fucking waste of three fucking drafts.

Either Pioli is retarded and is picking busts, or there is a serious problem from the top down at Arrowhead and it's seeping out to the player level.

Right now, I'm inclined to go with coaching/management as the problem as I find it hard to believe that all these guys Pioli has picked are total busts. However, without a complete flush of management/coaching, these guys aren't going to play to their potential as they are now caught up in the malaise that is the KC Chiefs.

KC Tattoo
10-30-2012, 07:05 PM
Really POWE needs to get on the field more. Not to take away from Poe just put him in Dorsey spot. It is simple move & could prove to be effective. Poe was used in college all across the line so it should work out for him. Dorsey is expendable he can't even stay healthy nor has he been effective when he did play.

Saccopoo
10-30-2012, 07:06 PM
He and Allen have been bright spots imo. Poe is way ahead of Sims, Jackson, or Dorsey imo. He is very athletic and I think he is still very raw. When he starts to really grasp the system he could be very very good imo. He looks like a solid draft pick at this point.

Allen has been horrible in the real games he's played.

Saccopoo
10-30-2012, 07:25 PM
Really POWE needs to get on the field more. Not to take away from Poe just put him in Dorsey spot. It is simple move & could prove to be effective. Poe was used in college all across the line so it should work out for him. Dorsey is expendable he can't even stay healthy nor has he been effective when he did play.

And the simple fact is, Powe has looked better when he's been on the field than Poe. The guy can play the NT in a 34. I'd love to see Poe move over to the end and let his burst and strength force the tackle inside and free up Hali more. There is no threat of Dorsey getting into the backfield, so Hali's been forced to work against the tackle exclusively as well as getting chipped by backs and tight ends.

Now, I understand that the five tech's position is to hold up the blockers, but there has to be some potential threat of the guy bull rushing the pocket. It ain't happening currently. (Though, Bailey flashed a couple of times the last two weeks. First time in a long time I can recall a Chiefs DE getting into the backfield.)

But I digress, I don't care for anyone on the coaching staff improving anything on this team. 1-15 is the goal. Geno Smith is the goal. A new GM is the goal. A new head coach is the goal. A new offensive coordinator is the goal. A total renewal...a new era brought about by a complete and utter purge.

Stay focused on the goal.

Ace Gunner
10-30-2012, 07:31 PM
Seeing DJ blow up running plays behind the LOS for 2 quarters of 1 game during every season is always a bright spot. For, you know, a minute.

aturnis
10-30-2012, 07:35 PM
The media thought highly of it simply because they think highly of Scott Pioli.

Well, at least they did before this season.

Bullshit. They thought highly of it b/c they thought highly of DJ, Flowers, Hali, Berry, Houston and the ability of the rest of the defense as a whole.

Buckweath
10-30-2012, 07:41 PM
Really POWE needs to get on the field more. Not to take away from Poe just put him in Dorsey spot. It is simple move & could prove to be effective. Poe was used in college all across the line so it should work out for him. Dorsey is expendable he can't even stay healthy nor has he been effective when he did play.

The main reason that was stated for poe's lack of production in college was the fact he was moved all over. IMO he needs to become much more comfortable with the NT position and Dline technique before we can move him.

Easy 6
10-30-2012, 07:46 PM
He's starting to show "flashes" as the old coach would say.

It's a good sign when he's getting in the backfield just behind the snap, and he's done that a couple times the last few weeks. I didn't expect him to even be playing yet at this point, and maybe he wouldn't have been without injuries, but there are some signs that maybe there's something there.

Exactly, he's showing just enough to warrant more looks.

Thats enough from an extremely raw rookie to placate me, its impossible to declare boom OR bust right now... anyone proclaiming otherwise isnt thinking it through.

petegz28
10-30-2012, 07:49 PM
If we had a coach and GM with 1/2 a brain we would have Poe, Powe and Ratboy all on the line at the same time.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 07:50 PM
And the simple fact is, Powe has looked better when he's been on the field than Poe. The guy can play the NT in a 34. I'd love to see Poe move over to the end and let his burst and strength force the tackle inside and free up Hali more. There is no threat of Dorsey getting into the backfield, so Hali's been forced to work against the tackle exclusively as well as getting chipped by backs and tight ends.

Now, I understand that the five tech's position is to hold up the blockers, but there has to be some potential threat of the guy bull rushing the pocket. It ain't happening currently. (Though, Bailey flashed a couple of times the last two weeks. First time in a long time I can recall a Chiefs DE getting into the backfield.)

But I digress, I don't care for anyone on the coaching staff improving anything on this team. 1-15 is the goal. Geno Smith is the goal. A new GM is the goal. A new head coach is the goal. A new offensive coordinator is the goal. A total renewal...a new era brought about by a complete and utter purge.

Stay focused on the goal.

No, terrible idea on Powe. WE're going to give up on Poe because he hasn't been a superstar in 7 games? Given that we knew with his inexperience, he'd be at least a 1-2 year experiment just to get him up to speed?

We're losing. There is ZERO value in maximizing snaps for Powe. Powe is obsolete. Teams prefer not to use 2-down 3-4 NTs. When you have guys like that, offenses will run no huddle spread and your 3-4 NT is completely out of position. The value in Poe is that when he matures, you hope he can play NT well, but have the versatility to stay on the field and play more of a 5-technique if the play dictates.

Which is why Poe was a great pick. I'm not a fan of Baldwin and never was. Still love the Berry pick, even if he's underperformed. I'm not convinced Berry couldn't improve with better coaching -- he's playing reckless.

keg in kc
10-30-2012, 07:51 PM
That play Sunday where Berry blew up the running back by going through the tackle was a beautiful thing.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 07:52 PM
The main reason that was stated for poe's lack of production in college was the fact he was moved all over. IMO he needs to become much more comfortable with the NT position and Dline technique before we can move him.

Actually most of Poe's problems are with technique. Very poorly coached. He plays with his pads high so he has to beat an entire body with just his upper body. And he doesn't have good hand technique, which is something that can be taught by our Kung fu panda specialist (he's better than the Kung Pao Panda).

He's going to take time. No reason for people to rush judgment on him. I don't know what he'll become, but his upside is tremendous.

Easy 6
10-30-2012, 07:56 PM
I'm with pete & Tattoo about Powe, the few times he's gotten in there he looks workable, it doesnt seem to make sense playing him as little as they do.

The only thing that makes sense is that they've decided to push Poe's development at all costs, in hopes of making sure that their #1 pans out as quickly as possible and proves them right in picking him.

Saccopoo
10-30-2012, 08:12 PM
No, terrible idea on Powe. WE're going to give up on Poe because he hasn't been a superstar in 7 games? Given that we knew with his inexperience, he'd be at least a 1-2 year experiment just to get him up to speed?

We're losing. There is ZERO value in maximizing snaps for Powe. Powe is obsolete. Teams prefer not to use 2-down 3-4 NTs. When you have guys like that, offenses will run no huddle spread and your 3-4 NT is completely out of position. The value in Poe is that when he matures, you hope he can play NT well, but have the versatility to stay on the field and play more of a 5-technique if the play dictates.

Which is why Poe was a great pick. I'm not a fan of Baldwin and never was. Still love the Berry pick, even if he's underperformed. I'm not convinced Berry couldn't improve with better coaching -- he's playing reckless.

Point taken with Powe, but I'm speaking in specific terms of the Crennel run defense. And you aren't going to see a full no huddle all game, especially if your defense is holding them to three and longs a lot, which is the basic tennent of the 34 defense.

And I'm not so enthusiastic about the Poe pick. We'll see. He does look more comfortable/better out there than at the start of the season. Let's see if that continues. However, he is still raw and hasn't shown the capability of getting under guys pads on a regular basis. It's a process though...

which leads to Berry. He's played reckless for two seasons now. His first year he was effectively a third linebacker for the team as his pass defense skills were non-existent. And they haven't really shown up this year either. I'd argue that he's playing sloppy versus reckless. I'm wondering how much his college production was simply based on his prodigious athletic talent versus actual football accumen.

KCFaninSEA
10-30-2012, 09:11 PM
Since the season is over they might has well put the kid in and get him some reps and see what is there. Nothing to lose at this point

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 09:17 PM
Point taken with Powe, but I'm speaking in specific terms of the Crennel run defense. And you aren't going to see a full no huddle all game, especially if your defense is holding them to three and longs a lot, which is the basic tennent of the 34 defense.

And I'm not so enthusiastic about the Poe pick. We'll see. He does look more comfortable/better out there than at the start of the season. Let's see if that continues. However, he is still raw and hasn't shown the capability of getting under guys pads on a regular basis. It's a process though...

which leads to Berry. He's played reckless for two seasons now. His first year he was effectively a third linebacker for the team as his pass defense skills were non-existent. And they haven't really shown up this year either. I'd argue that he's playing sloppy versus reckless. I'm wondering how much his college production was simply based on his prodigious athletic talent versus actual football accumen.

I agree on Poe, but the thing that encourages me is technique. But even without technique, nose tackle takes a TON of mental training. It's the most underrated quality of a nose tackle, just as it is with a 5-technique. You have a very short period of time to know exactly where to move. I think some people think it's just about eating space. It's not. But the athleticism... that's just something you can't coach. I'd rather take a chance on that kind of talent than play it safe on a 2-down NT like Cody. Cody's position is starting to become obsolete.

Will agree that in Romeo's scheme, the need for this kind of versatile NT is lessened.

On Berry... toward the end of 2010, he was making strides. He had a standout game against Baltimore in the playoffs. Like DJ, he's playing out of control. He's freelancing because nobody on the coaching staff is holding him accountable for it. I'm bummed he's not the immediate impact guy we thought he'd be. But I think you get him with a better coach and he'll be coached up. Frankly, he's one of the few Haley may have babied along because he has such a great attitude that you may miss that he's not playing with the control that he should.

Rausch
10-30-2012, 09:18 PM
Since the season is over they might has well put the kid in and get him some reps and see what is there. Nothing to lose at this point

On the positive side it would paint a clear picture of yet another wasted Pioli pick...