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ChiefsandO'sfan
10-30-2012, 04:37 PM
http://www.810whb.com/page.php?page_id=140


Listen to the Adam Teicher podcast on The Program.

Go to 25m 34s Mark




This is Great.

KCUnited
10-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Teicher goes full BobBlackCock and says losing Bowe is no big loss for the Chiefs.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 04:40 PM
I fucking hate when people do this.

Could you fucking elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

Claynus
10-30-2012, 04:41 PM
Yes, losing the 2nd best WR in franchise history is no big deal.

MIAdragon
10-30-2012, 04:41 PM
I ****ing hate when people do this.

Could you ****ing elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

NO fucking shit.

DaFace
10-30-2012, 04:41 PM
I fucking hate when people do this.

Could you fucking elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

This.

ChiefsandO'sfan
10-30-2012, 04:43 PM
I ****ing hate when people do this.

Could you ****ing elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

He Thinks every move made by Pioli has made the Chiefs 1% worse.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 04:44 PM
"When you get 1% worse, it's not a big deal until you do it 50 times."

This is the Pioli way. Lots of small cuts with marginal moves, and we're in the final stages of bleeding out. (These two sentences are mine.)

MIAdragon
10-30-2012, 04:44 PM
He Thinks every move made by Pioli has made the Chiefs 1% worse.

Mark Casel is responsible for WAY more than 1%.

KCUnited
10-30-2012, 04:44 PM
Petro uses Carr/Routt as one example of getting 1% worse at a position, and if you get 1% worse at a position x number of times, you're ****ed. He goes on to elaborate other positions where the Chiefs have let a guy walk only to replace them with marginally worse talent.

MIAdragon
10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
"When you get 1% worse, it's not a big deal until you do it 50 times."

This is the Pioli way. Lots of small cuts with marginal moves, and we're in the final stages of bleeding out. (These two sentences are mine.)

And quality they are.

Chiefspants
10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
He Thinks every move made by Pioli has made the Chiefs 1% worse.

So what, are we now at the right 53%?

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
Makes Teicher laugh by elaborating about Berry getting his ass handed to him by Antonio Gates.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 04:46 PM
5-10% worse with the Routt move.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 04:48 PM
This theory is wrong.

Pioli hasn't done a bad job with 90% of this team. It just so happens that the 10% was so glaringly bad it ****ed up the rest of the 90%.

BigMeatballDave
10-30-2012, 04:50 PM
I fucking hate when people do this.

Could you fucking elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

Eric Winston says we suck as fans...

Phobia
10-30-2012, 04:53 PM
The problem is that when you put a 20/20 buffoon who touches the ball on 100% of the offensive plays you can see 50/50 that he's going to mess it up 50% of the time. 50% is a big number. It's nearly half. That's a lot of screwups and when you turn the ball over the other team has it and then you get to defend. If you can't defend and you can't get the ball back then you aren't going to win a lot of them ballgames.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:00 PM
This theory is wrong.

Pioli hasn't done a bad job with 90% of this team. It just so happens that the 10% was so glaringly bad it ****ed up the rest of the 90%.

This is wrong.

Guys like Stanford Routt, Javier Arenas, Kendrick Lewis, Allen Bailey, Tyson Jackson, Jeff Allen, Tony Moeaki, Dexter McCluster and Jon Baldwin are mediocre at best football players, and that is a large percentage of our key contributors.

He has done a bad job, period. With the whole team.

It's a decent roster. I'd rank it somewhere slightly above league average, thanks to Herm.

Quarterback and head coach issues completely undermine it.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:02 PM
There is no way that Routt is even in Carr's league.

The last two seasons here Carr was a very good corner.

Routt is average on a good day, and utter dogshit on his worst.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:04 PM
This is wrong.

Guys like Stanford Routt, Javier Arenas, Kendrick Lewis, Allen Bailey, Tyson Jackson, Jeff Allen, Tony Moeaki, Dexter McCluster and Jon Baldwin are mediocre at best football players, and that is a large percentage of our key contributors.

He has done a bad job, period. With the whole team.

It's a decent roster. I'd rank it somewhere slightly above league average, thanks to Herm.

Quarterback and head coach issues completely undermine it.

Definitely not defending the guy. As I've said, he was so stubborn, arrogant, and unbelievably bad at ****ing up the few really key decisions here that I'm 100% on board the Fire Pioli bandwagon.

But while Herm's talent provided a nice foundation, we have to remember this is a team that had less than 10 even halfway decent players out of 53. We now have a pretty solid starting lineup in most of the 22, and some quality depth. And we did it without spending very much money, so we're in tremendous cap shape.

Pioli set the team up for the next guy to take over such that a new coaching staff and a real QB turns this team into a deep playoff contender.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:04 PM
This theory is wrong.

Pioli hasn't done a bad job with 90% of this team. It just so happens that the 10% was so glaringly bad it ****ed up the rest of the 90%.

Interested to hear how you rationalize this? How important is the QB position? He certainly royally screwed the pooch on that one HUGE part. That alone is worth more than 10% fuck up.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:05 PM
There is no way that Routt is even in Carr's league.

The last two seasons here Carr was a very good corner.

Routt is average on a good day, and utter dogshit on his worst.

Carr just completely shut down Victor Cruz.

Heyward-Bey and Moore just curb-stomped Routt.

5-10% worse my ass.

Frosty
10-30-2012, 05:07 PM
"When you get 1% worse, it's not a big deal until you do it 50 times."

So the team is only 60.5% of what it was when Pioli took over?

Maybe.

It sure isn't better. :shake:

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:08 PM
This is wrong.

Guys like Stanford Routt, Javier Arenas, Kendrick Lewis, Allen Bailey, Tyson Jackson, Jeff Allen, Tony Moeaki, Dexter McCluster and Jon Baldwin are mediocre at best football players, and that is a large percentage of our key contributors.

He has done a bad job, period. With the whole team.

It's a decent roster. I'd rank it somewhere slightly above league average, thanks to Herm.

Quarterback and head coach issues completely undermine it.

This.

4 years later, and our best players are STILL the guys that were already here.

Christ, even Eric Berry, who we all thought was a can't miss guy has been fucking brutal.

Clay, you nailed it regarding that list of players. Mediocre. At best.

SNR
10-30-2012, 05:08 PM
Anybody else think Carr has turned out to be the better CB than Flowers? Not that Flowers is a piece of shit or anything. It's just that Carr is that damn good.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:08 PM
Interested to hear how you rationalize this? How important is the QB position? He certainly royally screwed the pooch on that one HUGE part. That alone is worth more than 10% **** up.

I'm talking about this being the 80-20 principle. 80% of your success is depending on 20% of your team. And it so happens that Pioli fucked up a lot of that 20%. Royally, and in ways he can't repair.

Trust me, this is anything but a defense of the guy.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:08 PM
Pioli set the team up for the next guy to take over such that a new coaching staff and a real QB turns this team into a deep playoff contender.

Again, agree to disagree.

We need two WRs, a G, depth at HB, and probably a center if Hudson doesn't recover (that was a bad fucking injury). We might need a TE. Debatable.

Oh yeah, and two quarterbacks.

I'm willing to let Poe have a chance at NT next year. So we'll need a complete overhaul at defensive end, probably a replacement for Belcher, a new starting CB, and at least one safety.

The depth on this team is crap and everyone knows it. Who plays OLB if Hali or Houston go down? Scrub city.

The roster was completely, completely overrated the whole offseason. But that's what you get when people think Allen Bailey and Dexter McCluster are worth shit. They ain't.

Guru
10-30-2012, 05:13 PM
Well Pioli is succeeding at getting to 1% interest.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:14 PM
I'll say this.....I'm as guilty as the next guy in thinking how great this team looks on paper. However, it's difficult to condemn the entire team based on poor coaching and HORRIBLE QB play. I truely believe our Defense is better than they've shown, but with a Cassel led offense that couldn't score on WVU it's difficult to judge the Defense. We've proven that we can run the ball. I've become more for changing the coaching staff, Pioli, and Cassel....then evaluating the team as opposed to a complete overhaul.

TEX
10-30-2012, 05:14 PM
Anybody else think Carr has turned out to be the better CB than Flowers? Not that Flowers is a piece of shit or anything. It's just that Carr is that damn good.

Don't even get me going about Carr. SOOOOOO many here said Routt was just as good as Carr. He isn't. Not even close. So, what do I get for being right? Nothing, except to see my secondary get abused week to week.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:14 PM
Again, agree to disagree.

We need two WRs, a G, depth at HB, and probably a center if Hudson doesn't recover (that was a bad ****ing injury). We might need a TE. Debatable.

Oh yeah, and two quarterbacks.

I'm willing to let Poe have a chance at NT next year. So we'll need a complete overhaul at defensive end, probably a replacement for Belcher, a new starting CB, and at least one safety.

The depth on this team is crap and everyone knows it. Who plays OLB if Hali or Houston go down? Scrub city.

The roster was completely, completely overrated the whole offseason. But that's what you get when people think Allen Bailey and Dexter McCluster are worth shit. They ain't.

No team is going to have elite talent in all your starting 22, let alone your 53 man roster. The needs you mentioned are easy to fill, especially for a team that hasn't spent much money. You add a real QB and you'll barely notice those problems you mention.

I don't think Draughn and Hillis are that bad, but they're not going to work when you have 8-9 guys stacking the box because you don't throw deep. Bowe, Breaston, and McCluster are a solid WR trio and most QBs would do well with that group. And at Guard, we don't know what we have in Jeff Allen yet. At TE, when we have Boss back, Boss/Moeaki is a solid enough tandem at a position that doesn't have to be as important as we make it, because of our stubbornness to run Erhardt-Perkins.

We don't have many bad starters. We have some starters who aren't as good as we'd like them to be. Cassel is the obvious and glaring exception. But this is a much better supporting cast than, say, Aaron Rodgers has often had to play with (especially given that Jennings can't stay healthy).

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 05:15 PM
Anybody else think Carr has turned out to be the better CB than Flowers? Not that Flowers is a piece of shit or anything. It's just that Carr is that damn good.

Yes, and many of us were saying this long before Carr was released. Hell, we were defending the guy when people were calling for Carr to be cut.

Frosty
10-30-2012, 05:15 PM
We need two WRs, a G, depth at HB, and probably a center if Hudson doesn't recover (that was a bad ****ing injury). We might need a TE. Debatable.

It's a broken bone and he could have come back this season.

Q: Does either Hudson or Reeves have a recall designation?

CRENNEL: "With Jacques, there's a possibility depending on what they choose to do. You've got five days to reach an injury settlement, and if there's not an injury settlement with Reeves, then he's on IR and he remains on IR. Hudson will remain on IR right now because the way it looks, it's going to be several weeks with him."

Q: So there's not a tear there? Not an ACL or anything like that?

CRENNEL: "There's a broken bone, but it doesn't require surgery and he's got to be off of it for several weeks and then several weeks on crutches, so it's going to be most of the season. It's going to be most of the season, so that's why he's not going to be able to come back."

Q: So the new rule about putting a guy on IR and them coming back later in the season, that doesn't apply to Rodney?

CRENNEL: "It could, but by the time he gets back, the season's going to be over. So I don't know that we'd want to use that on him."

Q: Is it a broken bone in his leg?

CRENNEL: "Yes."

That said, a center might be a good idea anyway. Allen hasn't been very good at guard. They could sign/draft a center, move Hudson back to LG and jettison Lilja. Keep Allen as a backup since he could also play RT.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:16 PM
I'll say this.....I'm as guilty as the next guy in thinking how great this team looks on paper. However, it's difficult to condemn the entire team based on poor coaching and HORRIBLE QB play. I truely believe our Defense is better than they've shown, but with a Cassel led offense that couldn't score on WVU it's difficult to judge the Defense. We've proven that we can run the ball. I've become more for changing the coaching staff, Pioli, and Cassel....then evaluating the team as opposed to a complete overhaul.

A new coach gets this team playing tough. Our defense was nails last year to close the season, because they were hitting people in the mouth.

A new offensive coordinator opens up the offense instead of the predictable bullshit Daboll is marching out there.

A new QB turns Bowe into a 1,500 yard receiver, and opens up a whole shitload of real estate for Charles and Hillis and Draughn, not to mention for McCluster underneath.

I still stand behind the claim that a very good coach and QB make this team a strong playoff team. But Pioli doesn't get to make that decision.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 05:17 PM
This theory is wrong.

Pioli hasn't done a bad job with 90% of this team. It just so happens that the 10% was so glaringly bad it ****ed up the rest of the 90%.

Most of his moves have been terrible.

Baldwin isn't an impact player. Bowe was immediately. Hillis is shit. Brokaki was a terrible selection in light of the other TEs available. CB is worse. D-line still sucks.

Houston. Right now, he's the one true success that Pioli has. Thank goodness for marijuana, or we wouldn't even have him.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:18 PM
We've proven that we can run the ball.

Did you see the last two games?

Our running game is a trainwreck.

LJ would have beaten multiple women running behind this line.

keg in kc
10-30-2012, 05:18 PM
It's bullshit. We can survive with Routt. We can survive with the entire defense. We can survive with the offense, with one exception: a quarterback that was at the top of his position. Because those guys lift the entire team. Ours has dragged it down. Turnovers killed the season.

It's a hard pill to swallow, and I'm sure it's a newsflash to a town that's lived with the martyocre way of doing things for 20 years, but you don't have to have superstars everywhere. You just have to have one. And he has to be behind center. Do you want more? **** yeah you do. You want that game-changing passrusher. You want guys on offense that can break plays. But you rise and fall in today's NFL with the quarterback. You can have 'guy's literally everywhere else. You just can't have one running the offense. Because no matter who else you have, if you don't have a quarterback, you're ****ed. Just ****ed.

Unfortunately, we don't even have a 'guy' under center.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:20 PM
A new coach gets this team playing tough. Our defense was nails last year to close the season, because they were hitting people in the mouth.
.

They were hitting Tim Tebow, Caleb hanie, Curtis Painter, Kyle Boller and Donovan McNabb in the mouth.

Fool's gold.

Hitting people in the mouth doesn't work anymore, anyway. You can't touch receivers or quarterbacks, and no one wants to run the ball.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:21 PM
It's bullshit. We can survive with Routt.

ROFL

You know what a guy like Stanford Routt does on a good team?

He gets you beat in the first round of the playoffs.

And sorry, but we can't survive with this DL. It's horrible.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:22 PM
I'll say this.....I'm as guilty as the next guy in thinking how great this team looks on paper. However, it's difficult to condemn the entire team based on poor coaching and HORRIBLE QB play. I truely believe our Defense is better than they've shown, but with a Cassel led offense that couldn't score on WVU it's difficult to judge the Defense. We've proven that we can run the ball. I've become more for changing the coaching staff, Pioli, and Cassel....then evaluating the team as opposed to a complete overhaul.

Difficult to judge the defense?

They've allowed points in the 1st quarter in every game this season. Can't blame the offense for that.

54 1st quarter points in 7 games. An average of almost 8 points.

Sorry, but this defense sucks, and the coaching and QB play are only part of the reason why.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:22 PM
Did you see the last two games?

Our running game is a trainwreck.

LJ would have beaten multiple women running behind this line.

I'd agree with you if any team we played had to respect the passing game or didn't know exactly what was coming at them. Even our passes equate to runs, so we have to be the easiest team in the NFL to defend. Daboll is about as creative as a teenager with a handful of playboys....every knows what's cumming.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:22 PM
Most of his moves have been terrible.

Baldwin isn't an impact player. Bowe was immediately. Hillis is shit. Brokaki was a terrible selection in light of the other TEs available. CB is worse. D-line still sucks.

Houston. Right now, he's the one true success that Pioli has. Thank goodness for marijuana, or we wouldn't even have him.

Yes on most points. Our offensive line went from worst to very good and I believe they could be a top-notch o-line behind a real QB. Our receiver corps went from Bowe and 2 complete rejects to pretty solid. We have a 3-deep RB tandem which we can't see, because defenses are gunning so much for short shit, it's not funny. Our tight ends could be better, but they're solid enough. As a whole, our offensive supporting cast has all the pieces in place to be top tier with a very good QB.

On defense... I don't have a problem with our front 5. DJ and Berry are better than what they're coached to be now. Dorsey and Jackson were fine last year, and Poe will improve. Our corners are better than a lot of trios out there -- think we're nitpicking a bit if we rag on them.

If Poe continues to improve, we get real coaching, and we get a real QB, this is a terrific team. Our pieces look so bad because, again, Pioli made such glaringly bad decisions fueled by arrogance at the few positions you absolutely positively cannot afford to fuck up.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:23 PM
Most of his moves have been terrible.

Baldwin isn't an impact player. Bowe was immediately. Hillis is shit. Brokaki was a terrible selection in light of the other TEs available. CB is worse. D-line still sucks.

Houston. Right now, he's the one true success that Pioli has. Thank goodness for marijuana, or we wouldn't even have him.

Truthiness.

RunKC
10-30-2012, 05:23 PM
Again, agree to disagree.

We need two WRs, a G, depth at HB, and probably a center if Hudson doesn't recover (that was a bad ****ing injury). We might need a TE. Debatable.

Oh yeah, and two quarterbacks.

I'm willing to let Poe have a chance at NT next year. So we'll need a complete overhaul at defensive end, probably a replacement for Belcher, a new starting CB, and at least one safety.

The depth on this team is crap and everyone knows it. Who plays OLB if Hali or Houston go down? Scrub city.

The roster was completely, completely overrated the whole offseason. But that's what you get when people think Allen Bailey and Dexter McCluster are worth shit. They ain't.

Pioli's done a good job on the OL. Jeff Allen is a rookie dude. You want to give Poe a chance, but say Allen sucks? What?

And not even a handful of teams can replace their big players. We lose Houston or Tamba and we're boned. Guess what? Denver loses Von and they're boned. Vikings lose Jared Allen and they're boned.

Only teams I can think of off hand that can still be really good without their best pass rusher are the Giants and Niners.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:23 PM
Sorry, but you need more than just a QB.

Look at the Falcons.

Is Ryan surrounded by a bunch of mediocre slapdicks?

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:24 PM
Pioli's done a good job on the OL. Jeff Allen is a rookie dude. You want to give Poe a chance, but say Allen sucks? What?

Allen is performing at a league-worst level.

Poe has held his own to some degree.

Pioli has had some good OL players brought in, I said as much last week.

Rest of the guys he has brought in are trash.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Difficult to judge the defense?

They've allowed points in the 1st quarter in every game this season. Can't blame the offense for that.

54 1st quarter points in 7 games. An average of almost 8 points.

Sorry, but this defense sucks, and the coaching and QB play are only part of the reason why.

It's a huge part though. 1st quarter points wouldn't be a topic if we could score ANY outside of the final 3 minutes. I think sucks is too strong, but we've obvisouly degressed from last season....some by atrition and some by poor play. Still I think the potential for a solid D is there. Not great mind you, but solid. The interior, secondary, and Safety all could use some upgrades.

keg in kc
10-30-2012, 05:25 PM
ROFL

You know what a guy like Stanford Routt does on a good team?

He gets you beat in the first round of the playoffs.

And sorry, but we can't survive with this DL. It's horrible.There are tons of successful playoff teams in the last five years that have done it with banged-up or just plain bad secondaries, as well as bad defenses.

They had quarterbacks that could carry them.

We don't. Obviously.

You guys are getting too hung up on positions that are of...secondary importance. Pun intended.

They could have Deion out there, it wouldn't matter this year. Cassel would find a way.

Fuck all this talk about Carr or whoever else. Get us a fucking quarterback already.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:26 PM
They were hitting Tim Tebow, Caleb hanie, Curtis Painter, Kyle Boller and Donovan McNabb in the mouth.

Fool's gold.

Hitting people in the mouth doesn't work anymore, anyway. You can't touch receivers or quarterbacks, and no one wants to run the ball.

Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, and we actually did as admirable job as we could against New England before the Tyler Palko gimmick was doomed to fail. I'm just pointing out that this defense is NOT the defense we saw last year, regardless of competition. DJ is a totally different player. Our defensive line is getting mauled at the point of attack. We're missing tackles left and right.

Hitting in the mouth works. Watch Seattle's defense. You have 11 guys playing through every whistle, outhustling the offense, and beating up offensive lines. That is the kind of defense we should be playing. Our defense gives up in the second quarter and nobody plays with any discipline because nobody is doing their job.

Rausch
10-30-2012, 05:26 PM
Anybody else think Carr has turned out to be the better CB than Flowers? Not that Flowers is a piece of shit or anything. It's just that Carr is that damn good.

He's got more physical talent but Flowers is your more consistent player...

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:27 PM
Allen is performing at a league-worst level.

Poe has held his own to some degree.

Pioli has had some good OL players brought in, I said as much last week.

Rest of the guys he has brought in are trash.


Where are these good OLmen he's brought in?

Allen has been a trainwreck, Asomoah has been serviceable, Lilja can't get the ball to the fucking QB or block, and Winston has fucking sucked balls. His man is usually the first to the QB.

Albert has been our best OL this season, by far, IMO.

And people wanted to run him the fuck out of town...

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:28 PM
There are tons of successful playoff teams in the last five years that have done it with banged-up or just plain bad secondaries, as well as bad defenses.

They had quarterbacks that could carry them.

We don't. Obviously.

You guys are getting too hung up on positions that are of...secondary importance. Pun intended.

They could have Deion out there, it wouldn't matter this year. Cassel would find a way.

Exactly. We saw how horrible Indy was without Peyton. Brady led Reche fucking Caldwell and Chad Jackson to an AFC Championship game behind an average defense. Rodgers and Brees have won games with an average defense and a gazillion injuries to their offense.

This is a solid football team outside of the QB position.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Sorry, but you need more than just a QB.

Look at the Falcons.

Is Ryan surrounded by a bunch of mediocre slapdicks?

I tend to agree, but it certainly would help.....see the 2011 Packers, 2010 Saints, and hell nearly all of the Patriot SB teams.

tk13
10-30-2012, 05:28 PM
All the constant discussion about CBs is the most wasted bandwidth on this forum anymore. CBs are overrated. Find pass rushers.

There are teams that make it to the Super Bowl on an almost yearly basis with worse CBs than the Chiefs. Most people couldn't name the CBs on most recent championship teams, except for Charles Woodson, and even he missed half of the Super Bowl injured. This is becoming almost as arcane as saying you need a great RB to win. The teams that win rush the passer the best.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Where are these good OLmen he's brought in?

Allen has been a trainwreck, Asomoah has been serviceable, Lilja can't get the ball to the ****ing QB or block, and Winston has ****ing sucked balls. His man is usually the first to the QB.

Albert has been our best OL this season, by far, IMO.

And people wanted to run him the **** out of town...

Our o-line looked elite behind Orton. Asamoah, Hudson, and Winston are three solid moves. And Jeff Allen is still a rookie playing mostly out of position.

Our o-line has rated mostly well. You can't blame an o-line for not playing nails behind a QB so bad that nobody guards anything past 10 yards. Nor can you blame them for blowing blocks when the QB is too dumb to check into a blitz pickup in his pre-snap reads.

A real QB makes this offensive line very good.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:31 PM
The discussion about CBs is just a point being used to make that Pioli hasn't brought in talent at a lot of positions.

Including pass rushers.

He has brought in one pass rusher. In four years.

And he let Babin and Gilberry go.

He's a monster.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:31 PM
Sorry, but you need more than just a QB.

Look at the Falcons.

Is Ryan surrounded by a bunch of mediocre slapdicks?

RGIII is -- his supporting cast is terrible. It's not like Luck is surrounded by elite talent.

Amazing how both those offensive supporting casts went from awful to very good with a simple QB change.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
This is a solid football team outside of the QB position.

I don't want solid. I want elite.

This team isn't good enough to win a SB, even with Brady.

Brady would be screaming his fucking head off at Jon Baldwin and demanding better receivers.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
RGIII is -- his supporting cast is terrible. It's not like Luck is surrounded by elite talent.

Amazing how both those offensive supporting casts went from awful to very good with a simple QB change.

Neither of those teams are winning anything this year.

RGIII and Luck will need help to win a SB. Guaranteed.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
RGIII is -- his supporting cast is terrible. It's not like Luck is surrounded by elite talent.

Amazing how both those offensive supporting casts went from awful to very good with a simple QB change.

Not to derail the thread, but RGIII is getting a lot of credit but he's not delivering W's. I love the kid, but I think everyone is a bit over enamored with him.

Again....I LOVE the kid.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:34 PM
All the constant discussion about CBs is the most wasted bandwidth on this forum anymore. CBs are overrated. Find pass rushers.

There are teams that make it to the Super Bowl on an almost yearly basis with worse CBs than the Chiefs. Most people couldn't name the CBs on most recent championship teams, except for Charles Woodson, and even he missed half of the Super Bowl injured. This is becoming almost as arcane as saying you need a great RB to win. The teams that win rush the passer the best.

21st in the league in sacks.

Meanwhile, I'll wait patiently for someone to blame RAC for the fact that 29 other NFL players have more sacks than Tamba Hali.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:35 PM
. Watch Seattle's defense. You have 11 guys playing through every whistle, outhustling the offense, and beating up offensive lines. That is the kind of defense we should be playing. Our defense gives up in the second quarter and nobody plays with any discipline because nobody is doing their job.

Dude, Seattle's defense has a bunch of really good cover guys and great pass rushers. A bunch of 'em.

They're built to attack the passing game.

What do we have? Two pass rushers and one corner. And a brokedick safety.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:35 PM
I don't want solid. I want elite.

This team isn't good enough to win a SB, even with Brady.

Brady would be screaming his fucking head off at Jon Baldwin and demanding better receivers.

You've been on point a fair amount lately, but this is laugable. Don't you recall the WR corp that Brady has won SB's with? Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin and yes even McCluster are better than any of those as a group.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:36 PM
I don't want solid. I want elite.

This team isn't good enough to win a SB, even with Brady.

Brady would be screaming his ****ing head off at Jon Baldwin and demanding better receivers.

That's a fair statement, but I would argue a lot of these players turn from solid to very good with a coaching / QB change.

The good news is that the next GM gets a team with a solid foundation and a nice cap to work with. I don't think it takes long at all for a GM to turn this team into a deep playoff contender. I think that GM could do it in one offseason.

theelusiveeightrop
10-30-2012, 05:36 PM
Soren Petro and Adam Teicher. Journalists.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:37 PM
Wrong. Baldwin and McCluster are trash. Breaston is outta here.

Deion Branch is better than Baldwin and McCluster, and it's not even close.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:37 PM
Our o-line looked elite behind Orton. Asamoah, Hudson, and Winston are three solid moves. And Jeff Allen is still a rookie playing mostly out of position.

Our o-line has rated mostly well. You can't blame an o-line for not playing nails behind a QB so bad that nobody guards anything past 10 yards. Nor can you blame them for blowing blocks when the QB is too dumb to check into a blitz pickup in his pre-snap reads.

A real QB makes this offensive line very good.

Elite?

You live in a fucking fantasy world.

Then again, you think the entire roster is "solid" outside the QB position.

The reasoning behind 1-6 is a helluva lot more than the QB, folks. And that's coming from the President of the Fuck Matt Cassel Fan Club.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Dude, Seattle's defense has a bunch of really good cover guys and great pass rushers. A bunch of 'em.

They're built to attack the passing game.

What do we have? Two pass rushers and one corner. And a brokedick safety.

That's BS. DJ is a pro bowl calibre player when he plays with his head on straight. Our d-line wasn't elite, but they were doing their jobs. They're not anymore. They're playing passive and lazy. We have enough pieces to be a very good defense -- you take Haley's 2011 defense and add in Berry and assume Poe turns into a player, and that's an elite defense.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:39 PM
Wrong. Baldwin and McCluster are trash. Breaston is outta here.

Deion Branch is better than Baldwin and McCluster, and it's not even close.

Come on? How good did Deion Branch look in Seattle without TB?

I'm with you on a lot of this, but you're off base with this.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-30-2012, 05:39 PM
Elite?

You live in a fucking fantasy world.

Then again, you think the entire roster is "solid" outside the QB position.

The reasoning behind 1-6 is a helluva lot more than the QB, folks. And that's coming from the President of the Fuck Matt Cassel Fan Club.

As the President of the Fuck Matt Cassel Fan Club, I AGREE with this message.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:40 PM
We have enough pieces to be a very good defense

The whole defensive line needs an overhaul. None of these guys can get up the field. They're fire hydrants. Maybe Poe can stay, everyone else is garbage if we dump the 2-gap.

Do I really need to scream my head off again about the secondary? We have one good CB on this team. ONE.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:41 PM
Come on? How good did Deion Branch look in Seattle without TB?

I'm with you on a lot of this, but you're off base with this.

He had 725 yards his first season there.

Jon Baldwin will never have 600 yards in an NFL season. Write it down.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2012, 05:41 PM
That's BS. DJ is a pro bowl calibre player when he plays with his head on straight.

Derrick Johnson has maybe two good seasons left. He's hardly a guy I'd tout as being anything special, especially given that he's really only had one above average season.

Our d-line wasn't elite, but they were doing their jobs. They're not anymore. They're playing passive and lazy. We have enough pieces to be a very good defense

Outside of Poe and possibly Powe, every one of these motherfuckers can hit the road. They're not even AVERAGE.


-- you take Haley's 2011 defense and add in Berry and assume Poe turns into a player, and that's an elite defense.

LMAO

Haley's defense? Haley's defense?

ROFL

L.A. Chieffan
10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Fucking ingenious. You mean if the guys you use to replace the guys you lost arent as good, then your team will be worse? WOW, what fucking enlightment! This dude should patent this awesome theory!

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Derrick Johnson has maybe two good seasons left. He's hardly a guy I'd tout as being anything special, especially given that he's really only had one above average season.



Outside of Poe and possibly Powe, every one of these motherfuckers can hit the road. They're not even AVERAGE.




LMAO

Haley's defense? Haley's defense?

ROFL

Seriously.

I'm glad I picked today to stick my head in and check things out. I needed a laugh.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Come on? How good did Deion Branch look in Seattle without TB?

I'm with you on a lot of this, but you're off base with this.

No, he's not.

The Chiefs receiving corp, outside of Bowe, is dogshit.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:44 PM
Elite?

You live in a ****ing fantasy world.

Then again, you think the entire roster is "solid" outside the QB position.

The reasoning behind 1-6 is a helluva lot more than the QB, folks. And that's coming from the President of the **** Matt Cassel Fan Club.

No. It's the QB, it's our unimaginative offensive coordinator, and our clueless head coach. And our absent defensive coordinator, who happens to be our defensive coach.

It's not like these guys are not doing these jobs. These guys have been impressively bad.

C'mon, think back to Green Bay and Pittsburgh last year. Charles starts over Battle, Hillis is your goal line back, Moeaki starts over McConnell, Berry starts over Piscitelli, Boss starts over Pope. You can't tell me that's not a very good team, even with average Kyle Orton at the helm.

Now add in a coach that plays with Jim Harbaugh discipline and toughness. An defense with the imagination of Dom Capers. An offense with the imagination of Harbaugh's.

Even with Kyle Orton and those pieces above, you're going to tell me that you add those to last year's second half Chiefs and this isn't a team with a shot at a deep playoff run?

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2012, 05:44 PM
Seriously.

I'm glad I picked today to stick my head in and check things out. I needed a laugh.

It might as well be 2009 all over again for a lot of the people that post here.

Haley's a good to great coach and the team's just a player away from the playoffs. McCluster is the bomb, he just needs more touches. And Jackson and Dorsey are NOT overrated.

LMAO

Oh, and EVERYONE had a bad 2009 draft! Haven't you heard?

No talent whatsoever.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2012, 05:46 PM
An defense with the imagination of Dom Capers.

Capers?

LMAO

The fucking guy should have been fired 2 years ago! The Packers weakness is their shit defensive scheme.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:46 PM
Derrick Johnson has maybe two good seasons left. He's hardly a guy I'd tout as being anything special, especially given that he's really only had one above average season.



Outside of Poe and possibly Powe, every one of these mother****ers can hit the road. They're not even AVERAGE.




LMAO

Haley's defense? Haley's defense?

ROFL

It was Haley's defense from the standpoint that they played disciplined and tough. This defense's attitude has done a 180.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
Capers?

LMAO

The ****ing guy should have been fired 2 years ago! The Packers weakness is their shit defensive scheme.

Shit, sorry. Meant to say Wade Phillips in Houston. Stupid mistake.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
Even with Kyle Orton and those pieces above, you're going to tell me that you add those to last year's second half Chiefs and this isn't a team with a shot at a deep playoff run?

A deep playoff run? ROFL

With zero injuries and good QB play we might be a playoff team. A one and done playoff team.

That's it.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
Capers?

LMAO

The fucking guy should have been fired 2 years ago! The Packers weakness is their shit defensive scheme.

Dom Capers.

Fucking priceless.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:48 PM
No, he's not.

The Chiefs receiving corp, outside of Bowe, is dogshit.

Not sure how you can thoroughly judge Baldwin based on his time in league and playing time or Breaston for that matter based on playing time (he was solid in ARZ). I'm no fan, but McCluster isn't as bad as some think (although I'll conceed his draft postition was stupid and wouldn't mind him leaving).

I can't help but think with a good Offensive coordinator and even a half assed QB, this WR corp looks waaay better.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:50 PM
A deep playoff run? ROFL

With zero injuries and good QB play we might be a playoff team. A one and done playoff team.

That's it.

We won't make the Super Bowl until we have a very good QB. I agree with that, which is why I'm not saying we should be happy with Kyle Orton.

I just don't buy the board on here in a panic that our team is so bad we need an overhaul. How can people look at the 2012 defense and 2011 defense and not see that the same players are playing 100 times worse? How can anyone not see that Kyle Orton, while failing to close drives, moved the ball down the field in drives seamlessly even behind a brokedick offensive coordinator.

I don't know how anybody can look at this 2012 team and even for a second claim that this is what both units are capable of.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 05:51 PM
Dom Capers.

****ing priceless.

That was an honest mistake. I thought of Houston and Capers was the name that came to my head. It's not what I meant at all.

RunKC
10-30-2012, 05:52 PM
Not to derail the thread, but RGIII is getting a lot of credit but he's not delivering W's. I love the kid, but I think everyone is a bit over enamored with him.

Again....I LOVE the kid.

RGIII has a bunch of assholes dropping balls all over the place. They had like 9 drops yesterday. No excuse. Plus his OL is average at best.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:56 PM
I just don't buy the board on here in a panic that our team is so bad we need an overhaul.

We don't need an overhaul.

But we need 7 or 8 new starters for sure. Plus depth.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
Not sure how you can thoroughly judge Baldwin

Because he isn't just bad. He's completely invisible.

Matt Cassel actually HAS HAD SOME SUCCESS with SOME receivers in this league.

They didn't completely suck. Key.

WV
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
We don't need an overhaul.

But we need 7 or 8 new starters for sure. Plus depth.

Easily correct taking into account the O and D lines, plus secondary.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 06:00 PM
We can judge Baldwin because we have empirical evidence for what a true #1 WR does out of the blocks, even with a shit QB.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 06:03 PM
We don't need an overhaul.

But we need 7 or 8 new starters for sure. Plus depth.

That's an exaggeration. We need an overhaul of our coaching staff. We need a new QB. Those things alone make this team a very good football team.

We always act like we should have 22 very good starters. It's just not typical in today's NFL. I"m not going to get riled up if we're missing a guard or a free safety. We have more than enough talent at the key positions to support a very good head coach and QB. Putting Jim Harbaugh's staff (OC + DC) alone makes this team competitive. Replacing the QB on a Harbaugh coached team makes this team a contender. Chipping away at those 7 or 8 starters just makes the job easier.

You're really telling me that putting RGIII or even Tannehill and the entire 49ers Coaching staff alone doesn't make this team a serious contender?

Claynus
10-30-2012, 06:03 PM
We can judge Baldwin because we have empirical evidence for what a true #1 WR does out of the blocks, even with a shit QB.

And a #2 in Breaston.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 06:04 PM
You're really telling me that putting RGIII or even Tannehill and the entire 49ers Coaching staff alone doesn't make this team a serious contender?

I'm telling you that the players we've discussed in this thread have no business starting in the NFL on a perennial playoff team.

We are the Browns, Midwest.

So they start for us.

Remember when Eric Warfield went to New England? His ass didn't even make the final roster.

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 06:05 PM
We can judge Baldwin because we have empirical evidence for what a true #1 WR does out of the blocks, even with a shit QB.


We can also judge him because he runs sloppy, half-assed routes, struggles to find the ball in the air, and does a piss-poor job of using the sideline on the handful of jump balls he's thrown.

1 and 2 are key.

If you're a QB - much less a QB getting ass-fisted by fans and media - are you going to trust a guy like Baldwin who runs sloppy routes? Who doesn't get to where he's expected to be? Who struggles to find the ball in the air?

I sure as fuck wouldn't.

Dude hasn't even improved at the basics.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 06:07 PM
We can also judge him because he runs sloppy, half-assed routes, struggles to find the ball in the air, and does a piss-poor job of using the sideline on the handful of jump balls he's thrown.

1 and 2 are key.

If you're a QB - much less a QB getting ass-fisted by fans and media - are you going to trust a guy like Baldwin who runs sloppy routes? Who doesn't get to where he's expected to be? Who struggles to find the ball in the air?

I sure as **** wouldn't.

Dude hasn't even improved at the basics.

To be fair, the sidelines are different in St. Joe.

Seriously, though, some of those criticisms were and are aimed at Bowe, too. And the motherfucker still produced, and produced, and produced.

And he won't be a Chief next year because we hired the dumbest motherfucker in the world to be our GM.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 06:08 PM
Jon Baldwin had 2 targets last game, and one was a horizontal pass thrown as soon as the ball was snapped.

JAKE O'CONNELL had more targets.

It speaks volumes that our QB sucks, and our QB was bitching at him at the end of the game for a route run the wrong way.

If Matt Cassel thinks you suck, and Chiefsplanet agrees with Matt Cassel on the issue, holy balls, you suck.

scho63
10-30-2012, 06:08 PM
That 1% theory was a unique approach to looking at the team and how they changed talent for the worse in most cases.

Chocolate Hog
10-30-2012, 06:09 PM
Baldwin can't even run a fucking route properly.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 06:12 PM
I'm telling you that the players we've discussed in this thread have no business starting in the NFL on a perennial playoff team.

We are the Browns, Midwest.

So they start for us.

Remember when Eric Warfield went to New England? His ass didn't even make the final roster.

There are lots of teams with that problem, even the good ones. The difference is that in the past, our starters weren't even worthy of a roster spot on an NFL Europe squad. Even our bad starters are fringe starters / quality backups. I think we're really getting nitpicky if we're going to get riled up about Guards and slot receivers and 5-techniques. And most of those guys aren't even terrible. They're just not very good.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't do better. I'm not defending the way Pioli built his team, because Moeaki should be Gronk or Graham. Baldwin should have been Dalton. The list goes on. But the team has improved dramatically and that will show with wholesale changes in the coaching staff and with an improved QB. Should it continue to improve? Of course. I'd expect nothing less. But we're not in some dire situation where a new GM can't make this a deep playoff contender with just a few effective offseason moves.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 06:13 PM
Jon Baldwin had 2 targets last game, and one was a horizontal pass thrown as soon as the ball was snapped.

JAKE O'CONNELL had more targets.

It speaks volumes that our QB sucks, and our QB was bitching at him at the end of the game for a route run the wrong way.

If Matt Cassel thinks you suck, and Chiefsplanet agrees with Matt Cassel on the issue, holy balls, you suck.

I'll agree with you on Baldwin. Was never high on him and still am not.

It should have been Andy Dalton. I'm not sold that he's an answer, but at least it meant we were trying.

aturnis
10-30-2012, 06:14 PM
I ****ing hate when people do this.

Could you ****ing elaborate a bit for those of us that aren't in a position to listen to an entire (or even part of a) podcast?

This.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 06:14 PM
But we're not in some dire situation where a new GM can't make this a deep playoff contender with just a few effective offseason moves.

This I agree completely with.

But there is no way we can start a guy like Jon Baldwin next year, or Stanford Routt.

We can probably "get by" with Arenas at NCB or Jackson at LDE.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 06:18 PM
This I agree completely with.

But there is no way we can start a guy like Jon Baldwin next year, or Stanford Routt.

We can probably "get by" with Arenas at NCB or Jackson at LDE.

Now we're on the same page. Agree with this. Though I think Routt will be just fine if our front 5 starts to finally do their job consistently.

WV
10-30-2012, 06:21 PM
I think Baldwin is a talented knuckle head just like he was at PITT, but I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't think he is in a position to excell so I call him an incomplete. Fine even shitty Casshole made Bowe look good, but he can't very well contune to feed Bowe and have targets left for Baldwin when they aren't game planning to throw the ball in the first place. He's been out there for a little more than half the snaps of DBowe, I don't see where he can be clearly judged in this offense.

CoMoChief
10-30-2012, 06:23 PM
The success from this team comes from the Carl/Herm era.

Pioli gets to hang his hat on a 2010 Eric Berry and Houston falling into his lap in the 3rd rd.

aturnis
10-30-2012, 06:36 PM
Difficult to judge the defense?

They've allowed points in the 1st quarter in every game this season. Can't blame the offense for that.

54 1st quarter points in 7 games. An average of almost 8 points.

Sorry, but this defense sucks, and the coaching and QB play are only part of the reason why.

How many first quarter turnovers inside our 50?

Claynus
10-30-2012, 06:37 PM
If you don't want to blame the D, just roll tape of Tampa Bay's first drive of the 2nd half.

Rausch
10-30-2012, 06:42 PM
If you don't want to blame the D, just roll tape of Tampa Bay's first drive of the 2nd half.

Or take a look at how many pts we've allowed this year...

OnTheWarpath58
10-30-2012, 06:52 PM
How many first quarter turnovers inside our 50?

Is that supposed to be guaranteed points?

The defense's job is to keep the team from scoring, not say, "well, it's not our fault the opposition got the ball on our 40 and we gave up a TD."

Phobia
10-30-2012, 06:53 PM
He had 725 yards his first season there.

Jon Baldwin will never have 600 yards in an NFL season. Write it down.

You're so awesome at predictions that everybody else picks your sig and avatar.

MahiMike
10-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes, losing the 2nd best WR in franchise history is no big deal.

Yes, that's correct.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 07:00 PM
I think Baldwin is a talented knuckle head just like he was at PITT, but I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't think he is in a position to excell so I call him an incomplete. Fine even shitty Casshole made Bowe look good, but he can't very well contune to feed Bowe and have targets left for Baldwin when they aren't game planning to throw the ball in the first place. He's been out there for a little more than half the snaps of DBowe, I don't see where he can be clearly judged in this offense.

Thigpen, who made eye love with Gonzo on every passing play, still found time to cheat with Bowe.

Tyler fucking Thigpen, coached by Herm fucking Edwards.

ILChief
10-30-2012, 07:09 PM
Again, agree to disagree.

We need two WRs, a G, depth at HB, and probably a center if Hudson doesn't recover (that was a bad fucking injury). We might need a TE. Debatable.

Oh yeah, and two quarterbacks.

I'm willing to let Poe have a chance at NT next year. So we'll need a complete overhaul at defensive end, probably a replacement for Belcher, a new starting CB, and at least one safety.

The depth on this team is crap and everyone knows it. Who plays OLB if Hali or Houston go down? Scrub city.

The roster was completely, completely overrated the whole offseason. But that's what you get when people think Allen Bailey and Dexter McCluster are worth shit. They ain't.


We don't need a guard other than depth. Hudson broke a bone in his leg, he will be fine

aturnis
10-30-2012, 07:19 PM
Gochiefs, you are an asshat.

Steve Breaston was better than Baldwin and Mccluster when he played with HOF QB Kurt Warner. Now, playing with Cassel and Quinn, he is the worst of the three. Better fi d a better argument.

aturnis
10-30-2012, 07:20 PM
Thigpen, who made eye love with Gonzo on every passing play, still found time to cheat with Bowe.

Tyler ****ing Thigpen, coached by Herm ****ing Edwards.

Dick Curl BIOTCH!

WV
10-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Thigpen, who made eye love with Gonzo on every passing play, still found time to cheat with Bowe.

Tyler fucking Thigpen, coached by Herm fucking Edwards.

Look at this offense and then the snap counts, you're comparing apples and oranges. Plus Bowe/Gonzo were almost always on the field...an extra WR not as much. I'm not trying to say Baldwin is or will be great, but it's hardly been long enough especially with this team to pass judgement on him.

DeezNutz
10-30-2012, 07:28 PM
Look at this offense and then the snap counts, you're comparing apples and oranges. Plus Bowe/Gonzo were almost always on the field...an extra WR not as much. I'm not trying to say Baldwin is or will be great, but it's hardly been long enough especially with this team to pass judgement on him.

Book has not been written on him, though the opening chapters suck shit.

WV
10-30-2012, 07:29 PM
Book has not been written on him, though the opening chapters suck shit.

Let's face facts, the whole freaking Chiefs book over the last 10 years has sucked ass.

petegz28
10-30-2012, 07:41 PM
We've been blown out more times under this GM than almost all the times prior to him and we are only 1% worse?

:facepalm:

Fruit Ninja
10-30-2012, 07:42 PM
****ing ingenious. You mean if the guys you use to replace the guys you lost arent as good, then your team will be worse? WOW, what ****ing enlightment! This dude should patent this awesome theory!

Well, his point was, this team got worse when Pioli thought it was gonna be better and PIOLI Has fucked up this team and has no clue what he's doing. He has a freaking radio talk show. what else is he supposed to talk about? who's winning on xfactor and the voice?

Rausch
10-30-2012, 07:43 PM
We've been blown out more times under this GM than almost all the times prior to him and we are only 1% worse?

:facepalm:

You clearly didn't listen...

petegz28
10-30-2012, 07:47 PM
You clearly didn't listen...

No,I was going by someone's footnotes..

RunKC
10-30-2012, 07:50 PM
Put Geno, Barkley or Wilson on this team and Baldwin/Breaston look 25X better.

If Bowe leaves Tony G style next year, then I think we'll be okay with Baldwin, Breaston and an early 2nd round pick like Cordarell Patterson, Tavon Austin or Stedman Bailey.

Quality first round QB's tend to make WR's look better.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 07:53 PM
Put Geno, Barkley or Wilson on this team and Baldwin/Breaston look 25X better.


25x0 = 0

Not even going to ask why you lumped an experienced, accomplished NFL veteran like Breaston in with a ne'er-do-well like Baldwin.

htismaqe
10-30-2012, 07:58 PM
Is that supposed to be guaranteed points?

The defense's job is to keep the team from scoring, not say, "well, it's not our fault the opposition got the ball on our 40 and we gave up a TD."

:clap::clap::clap:

RunKC
10-30-2012, 08:02 PM
25x0 = 0

Not even going to ask why you lumped an experienced, accomplished NFL veteran like Breaston in with a ne'er-do-well like Baldwin.

Baldwin has a ton of potential. Put him in Breaston's position when he was in Arizona with Warner and he looks great.

KCwolf
10-30-2012, 08:13 PM
Wrong. Baldwin and McCluster are trash. Breaston is outta here.

Deion Branch is better than Baldwin and McCluster, and it's not even close.

Pretty sure this is dead on.....Listen to ANY ex NFL WR talk about Baldwin.... it's not positive....guy can't run routes.....no discipline... and not sure he can figure out the routes... AS far as DMac... not nearly as negative.... kid is a fighter .... not going down that negative road.... actually like the guy. But Baldwin..not so sure

Claynus
10-30-2012, 08:14 PM
Baldwin has a ton of potential. Put him in Breaston's position when he was in Arizona with Warner and he looks great.

Kurt Warner would rip Baldwin's head off and shit down his neck for sucking ass....there's no way he could play in a complicated offense.

The guy is fucking lost out there and has no grasp on the mental part of the game.

He's just a big lumbering ox with straight line speed and jumping ability....he should go play street ball.

GoHuge
10-30-2012, 09:27 PM
Kurt Warner would rip Baldwin's head off and shit down his neck for sucking ass....there's no way he could play in a complicated offense.

The guy is ****ing lost out there and has no grasp on the mental part of the game.

He's just a big lumbering ox with straight line speed and jumping ability....he should go play street ball.Yeah but Bill Belichick says he was just as good as Julio Jones.........that's supposed to be gospel.

What everyone is missing in this exercise is Clueless Hunt made the wrong decision between Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. Make it 1, 10, 50% it all falls on Hunt and his decision. Two organizations hired two player personnel guys to be the GM of their team from the Patriots at the same time and in typical KC sports luck we got the shit end of a 50/50 decision. Four years later...........ESPN power rankings 1. Falcons, 32. Chefs

Just how we roll in KC.

notorious
10-30-2012, 09:30 PM
Fuck Baldwin. He has no seperation quickness.

SNR
10-30-2012, 10:49 PM
Yeah but Bill Belichick says he was just as good as Julio Jones.........that's supposed to be gospel.

What everyone is missing in this exercise is Clueless Hunt made the wrong decision between Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. Make it 1, 10, 50% it all falls on Hunt and his decision. Two organizations hired two player personnel guys to be the GM of their team from the Patriots at the same time and in typical KC sports luck we got the shit end of a 50/50 decision. Four years later...........ESPN power rankings 1. Falcons, 32. Chefs

Just how we roll in KC.
Dimitroff wasn't available to Hunt at the time Pioli was hired, dude.

Saccopoo
10-30-2012, 10:50 PM
**** Baldwin. He has no seperation quickness.

Other than the fact that he is playing is a shit system with shit QB's, his separation quickness isn't a huge issue. Well, it is when we only have three yard outs or two yard crossing patterns in the playbook.

The guy is 6'4" with a 40"+ vertical. Send the dude deep and keep on running. We just need a QB that can get the ball there...right now we don't. In 2013, we will.

Geno.

KcMizzou
10-30-2012, 10:53 PM
I think all these WR's would look a hell of a lot better if we had anything at QB.

chiefzilla1501
10-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Other than the fact that he is playing is a shit system with shit QB's, his separation quickness isn't a huge issue. Well, it is when we only have three yard outs or two yard crossing patterns in the playbook.

The guy is 6'4" with a 40"+ vertical. Send the dude deep and keep on running. We just need a QB that can get the ball there...right now we don't. In 2013, we will.

Geno.

I don't like the guy. I said this when he was drafted. He is a Randy Moss clone except he's not even CLOSE to the athlete Moss was. Baldwin only knows how to run one route. The straight line route. How many times does he get crossed up running the wrong route? How many times does he run the right route terribly?

It would be different if you felt like he could improve. I think he's uncoachable. He's a guy who spends a ton of time in the weight room and then is a pain in the ass when you try to coach him football.

Claynus
10-30-2012, 11:38 PM
I think all these WR's would look a hell of a lot better if we had anything at QB.

Baldwin did nothing last year with Orton at QB.

GoHuge
10-30-2012, 11:57 PM
Dimitroff wasn't available to Hunt at the time Pioli was hired, dude.You are correct. Something made me think they both left NE the same year, but my main point still stands.........we always get it wrong or it flames out in KC when it looks like a rock star hire..........Dayton Moore..........Pioli.

RunKC
10-31-2012, 12:15 AM
Baldwin did nothing last year with Orton at QB.

Baldwin missed half the year and then played with 3 QB's...as a rookie. Let's give him a chance dude.

He's shown flashes of enormous potential. If he doesn't do anything next year with a first round QB, then call him a bust.

Claynus
10-31-2012, 12:21 AM
Always with the excuses.

The flashes Baldwin have shown are so few and far between he's less impressive than Sylvester Morris at this point.

AussieChiefsFan
10-31-2012, 12:34 AM
I don't like the guy. I said this when he was drafted. He is a Randy Moss clone except he's not even CLOSE to the athlete Moss was. Baldwin only knows how to run one route. The straight line route. How many times does he get crossed up running the wrong route? How many times does he run the right route terribly?

It would be different if you felt like he could improve. I think he's uncoachable. He's a guy who spends a ton of time in the weight room and then is a pain in the ass when you try to coach him football.Although, hes being coached by RAC

scho63
10-31-2012, 12:50 AM
The success from this team comes from the Carl/Herm era.

Pioli gets to hang his hat on a 2010 Eric Berry and Houston falling into his lap in the 3rd rd.

And as of right now, Berry looks average and most people think he is over rated. His pass coverage has sucked.

He is a great run stopper though

chiefzilla1501
10-31-2012, 01:08 AM
Although, hes being coached by RAC

Was also coached by Wannstedt and Haley. The knock on him in college was... yeah, his QB was never that great, but you'd want to see him improve.

Rausch
10-31-2012, 02:46 AM
Baldwin missed half the year and then played with 3 QB's...as a rookie. Let's give him a chance dude.

He's shown flashes of enormous potential.

In practice only...

Woodchuck
10-31-2012, 06:51 AM
Always with the excuses.

The flashes Baldwin have shown are so few and far between he's less impressive than Sylvester Morris at this point.

He did have the catch of the year.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CSjhZWXhdjw?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rausch
10-31-2012, 06:54 AM
He did have the catch of the year.


What you have is a problem.

Seek help.

Dave Lane
10-31-2012, 07:06 AM
Sorry, but you need more than just a QB.

Look at the Falcons.

Is Ryan surrounded by a bunch of mediocre slapdicks?

A good quarterback makes all his receivers and people around him look better than they are. I think this is the case with Ryan he's making his surrounding cast look better than they are.

AussieChiefsFan
10-31-2012, 07:08 AM
A good quarterback makes all his receivers and people around him look better than they are. I think this is the case with Ryan he's making his surrounding cast look better than they are.

Really think that's the case in Atlanta though?

Woodchuck
10-31-2012, 07:10 AM
A good quarterback makes all his receivers and people around him look better than they are. I think this is the case with Ryan he's making his surrounding cast look better than they are.

ROFL It's not like he has the greatest TE of all time, a superfreak WR they sold the farm to get, and a 2010 MVP long shot canidate on the other side.

Ryan has gotten better but don't kid yourself.

theelusiveeightrop
10-31-2012, 07:12 AM
Who is smarter? Mo Claiborne or Jon Baldwin?

AussieChiefsFan
10-31-2012, 07:13 AM
Who is smarter? Mo Claiborne or Jon Baldwin?

Well Claiborne got the lowest ever wonderlic test score