PDA

View Full Version : Football Cleveland '95: A Football Story


Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:00 PM
Has anyone had a chance to catch this show? It is a great story of the original Browns' last year in Cleveland before they moved to Baltimore. I enjoyed the hell out of it.

The first half is really a look at Belichick and the staff he had. That Cleveland team was chock full of NFL royalty. Pioli is fetured somewhat prominitely throughout, and he comes across, quite frankly, as a pretty likeable guy. I can see why Clark went after him so hard, especially considering the pedigree he had before coming to KC.

I highly recommend checking it out, especially if you're a fan of the history of the game and remember this as clearly as I do.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/10/4/3452712/cleveland-95-a-football-life-thoughts-and-player-reactions

http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/10/03/cleveland-95-where-are-they-now/?module=HP11_content_stream

Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:02 PM
We are always joking about Clark moving the team to LA, or some other port. This is a great look at what would most likely happen here if that were ever to happen. I actually felt very sorry for the fans of the Browns.

DaWolf
11-04-2012, 02:05 PM
Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...

Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...

Oh, totally agree. I should have disclaimered that this thread is in by no means a defense for Pioli in any way.

I really just like the entirety of the program. Marty had a hell of a staff back in the early 90's, but Belichick's staff completely crushes what Marty had. That look, plus watching Cleveland get its football team ripped away was fascinating. I'm somewhat suprised Art Modell escaped with his health, heh.

Deberg_1990
11-04-2012, 02:15 PM
Marty had a hell of a staff back in the early 90's, but Belichick's staff completely crushes what Marty had. .

Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.

Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:21 PM
Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.

Yeah, point.

Belichick's staff had more longevity to it compared to Marty's guys. A lot of the guys he had have gone to the front office, most notably Ozzie Newsome. Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban were on Bill's staff, as well. It's a real list of who's who in football.

BigMeatballDave
11-04-2012, 02:25 PM
Not bad.

A TON of Patriot crap, though.

mcaj22
11-04-2012, 02:30 PM
who besides Belicheck on that staff is "NFL Royalty"

a bunch of overrated bums besides BB that have been cashing checks off the Tom Brady train for over a decade now.

tk13
11-04-2012, 02:30 PM
Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.

Plus assistants Al Saunders, Russ Ball (who is now a VP of the Packers), Alex Gibbs who was a big part of the Broncos running attack during the Shanahan years... Herm Edwards was a scout turned assistant. Even Thomas Dimitroff's first NFL job was as a scout for the Chiefs in 93, although it's not like he worked directly for Marty.

The Bad Guy
11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Pioli is like the abusive boyfriend who beats the shit out of the girlfriend behind closed doors, but presents so well to the outside world that you could never believe he's that much of an asshole.

The people that work in that building fear him. He rules with fear and is a far bigger piece of shit than anyone could imagine.

Chiefspants
11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Marty's Staff > Belicheck's staff.

The only difference is that one of those guys up top has a super bowl title.

Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:36 PM
Why oh why couldn't we have landed Dimitroff instead of Pioli.

The Bad Guy
11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
who besides Belicheck on that staff is "NFL Royalty"

a bunch of overrated bums besides BB that have been cashing checks off the Tom Brady train for over a decade now.

Dimitroff is the only one worth a shit.

Count Zarth
11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
It really shows how FOS that tree is.

Let's build a blue collar team with a mediocre QB and be assholes and try to win!

Had the Browns stayed put they never would have won crap, barring Tom Brady being drafted.

Count Zarth
11-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy.

No he's not.

People inside Arrowhead hate him.

War Room was written by a Pat Way shill.

Rams Fan
11-04-2012, 02:42 PM
Dimitroff is the only one worth a shit.

Does Newsome count?

Bowser
11-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Had the Browns stayed put they never would have won crap, barring Tom Brady being drafted.

The Cleveland people are absolutely convinced that they would have won a championship. In '96, Baltimore took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis in the first. Four years later - champs.

Not saying it would have happened, but it would have been interesting to watch.


And I can't say this enough - this is not a Belichick fluff piece (by me, anyway). I was just impressed to see all the familiar faces Bill had on his staff in Cleveland. Guess I didn't have a full view of BB's "tree".

The real story is about Cleveland watching their team leave, pretty much out of the blue. That was the part that fascinated me the most.

The Bad Guy
11-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...

He's not a likeable guy. He's a dictator and treats people poorly inside Arrowhead. There will be a fucking party the day he's gone inside that complex.

Your last sentence is hilarious. "He's fine as a right hand personnel guy as long as someone competent is calling the shots". That's essentially saying he's worthless. I agree with that. Hell, anyone could work in any profession as long as you have someone who knows what they are doing to help you at every turn.

ClevelandBronco
11-04-2012, 02:47 PM
The Browns' transformation into the Ravens changed forever how I watch and how much I care about the game. I still enjoy NFL football, but I recognize that the professional football entertainment industry has nothing to do with me and the team is in no way mine. Calling a team the "Denver" Broncos or the "Kansas City" Chiefs is nothing but smart marketing. We wouldn't pay nearly as much attention or money if the Hunt Chiefs played the Bowlen Broncos twice a year.

theelusiveeightrop
11-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Pioli once gave a two dollar tip on a delivered pizza. Nice guy.

Chiefspants
11-04-2012, 02:56 PM
The Browns' transformation into the Ravens changed forever how I watch and how much I care about the game. I still enjoy NFL football, but I recognize that the professional football entertainment industry has nothing to do with me and the team is in no way mine. Calling a team the "Denver" Broncos or the "Kansas City" Chiefs is nothing but smart marketing. We wouldn't pay nearly as much attention or money if the Hunt Chiefs played the Bowlen Broncos twice a year.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbqqc0Cvgx1ria8m7o1_400.gif

ClevelandBronco
11-04-2012, 02:58 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbqqc0Cvgx1ria8m7o1_400.gif

That's the cool thing. It's no longer emotional at all for me. It's strictly financial.

That came in handy when I was asked to vote for a new stadium for the Broncos. I voted against it. Move the Broncos to L.A. I'll watch football no matter what city they pretend to represent.

Count Zarth
11-04-2012, 03:04 PM
The Cleveland people are absolutely convinced that they would have won a championship. In '96, Baltimore took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis in the first. Four years later - champs.


But they weren't coached by Belichick. Nor was he calling the shots in that draft.

He probably would have taken a 5-tech.

BigMeatballDave
11-04-2012, 03:04 PM
The Cleveland people are absolutely convinced that they would have won a championship. In '96, Baltimore took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis in the first. Four years later - champs.

Not saying it would have happened, but it would have been interesting to watch.


And I can't say this enough - this is not a Belichick fluff piece (by me, anyway). I was just impressed to see all the familiar faces Bill had on his staff in Cleveland. Guess I didn't have a full view of BB's "tree".

The real story is about Cleveland watching their team leave, pretty much out of the blue. That was the part that fascinated me the most.Seems Modell was looking for a big payday and Baltimore backed up the Brinks truck.

Chiefspants
11-04-2012, 03:05 PM
That's the cool thing. It's no longer emotional at all for me. It's strictly financial.

That came in handy when I was asked to vote for a new stadium for the Broncos. I voted against it. Move the Broncos to L.A. I'll watch football no matter what city they pretend to represent.

Life is sad sometimes. :(

ClevelandBronco
11-04-2012, 03:09 PM
Life is sad sometimes. :(

Only if you care about the Kansas City Chiefs.

Also if you have to pay the extra sales tax for the stadium. That sucks.

mcaj22
11-04-2012, 03:11 PM
The Cleveland people are absolutely convinced that they would have won a championship. In '96, Baltimore took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis in the first. Four years later - champs.


they were champs four years later not because of Belicheck and his shitter pals but because of these drafts POST-belicheck:

96
ogden
ray lewis

97
boulware
jamie sharper
kim herring

98
duane starks

99
chris mccailister
brandon stokley

00
jamal lewis
adalius thomas

O.city
11-04-2012, 03:13 PM
Dimitroff is good basically because he scrapped the patriot way and did what needed to be done

DaWolf
11-04-2012, 03:20 PM
No he's not.

People inside Arrowhead hate him.

War Room was written by a Pat Way shill.

That's where you differentiate between personality as a leader in the workplace and personality as an individual. I've met and socialized with plenty of people who, when you are not working with them or when you are outside of that work environment, they are great guys, or come across as that. But when they get into the work environment, either they have a warped sense of what it takes to succeed or have no idea what they are doing or just let the power get to their head, and act like total asses. Pioli would not have stuck around in the NFL this long or been the hot commodity he was when we got him if he had been a total arsewipe to everyone he had worked with. Clark is very close to the Kraft family and they highly recommended the guy. But once he got here and he got all the power, he obviously had no idea how to run the show. So he created a crappy workplace and a lot of the people who worked or work under him here dislike him for the way he handles himself in the workplace.

I don't really care about his personality. I dislike him because he's obviously proven to be bad at being a general manager...

Deberg_1990
11-04-2012, 03:22 PM
they were champs four years later not because of Belicheck and his shitter pals but because of these drafts POST-belicheck:

96
ogden
ray lewis

97
boulware
jamie sharper
kim herring

98
duane starks

99
chris mccailister
brandon stokley

00
jamal lewis
adalius thomas

Yea that, and it was a weird year. The mid to late 90s there were almost no franchise QBs drafted, or they busted big time.

94-97 in particular were overall horrible drafts for QBs. Marino, Aikman, Young and Elway all retired, Manning and McNabb were still a year away from seriously being a threat ........Favres Packers mired in mediocrity for a few years once Holmgren left, Bledsoe was starting to suck....it was like a perfect storm for A defensive team to win it all.

MOhillbilly
11-04-2012, 03:26 PM
If the chiefs went to la at this point I wouldn't really care.

Count Zarth
11-04-2012, 03:35 PM
Pioli would not have stuck around in the NFL this long or been the hot commodity he was when we got him if he had been a total arsewipe to everyone he had worked with.

Really?

Worked for Bill Parcells.

EVERYONE from that tree that has failed since Brady are dicks, and incompetent, impotent dicks to boot.

Too much evidence.