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View Full Version : Chiefs An NFL insider rips Pioli for letting quality players go


Von Dumbass
11-05-2012, 09:39 AM
The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity:

• “When you are $20 million-$25 million under the cap, you can’t afford to let a homegrown guy like Brandon Carr get out of the building. Carl Peterson drafted him in the fifth round — (GM) Scott (Pioli) didn’t draft him. (Carr) is a bona fide starter and he is young and you let him get away on his first contract without getting anything in return? Go and pay him, especailly if he is so far under the cap. You are going to bring in Stanford Routt, who is getting diced by whoever he is lining up against and expect the same results? Routt can’t cover himself up at night. He is like that great mule everyone wants to ride. They could have had their two corners locked up for at least 4-5 years with (Brandon) Flowers and Carr. Instead, Carr is down in Dallas having a good season. Brian Waters had a great year in New England last year. How many good years (in Atlanta) has Tony Gonzalez had now? Enough said.”

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/04/insider-culliver-is-one-of-nfls-top-cornerbacks

loochy
11-05-2012, 09:42 AM
but blah blah we can't spend a lot of money on secondary because we have to spend it on something else! these are rules that I read somewhere!

KCUnited
11-05-2012, 09:45 AM
The Childhood Dream Premium is steep.

The Bad Guy
11-05-2012, 09:45 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

carlos3652
11-05-2012, 09:45 AM
The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity:

How many good years (in Atlanta) has Tony Gonzalez had now? Enough said.”

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/04/insider-culliver-is-one-of-nfls-top-cornerbacks

:hmmm::spock: Carl's move?

Mr. Arrowhead
11-05-2012, 09:47 AM
:hmmm::spock: Carl's move?
Pioli traded TG, that was one of his first moves after he traded for Matt Cassel and drafted Tyson Jackson

BossChief
11-05-2012, 09:48 AM
It's a process and we are all familiar with the process and Cassel is a team leader that is gonna work hard and work tremendously hard because he is a team leader and a captain that's a hard worker and we are gonna fight through all of this and we should have high expectations in august and then lower expectations once the games start.

It's a process and we should all trust in the process.

Get a clue. Your choice to be a fan.

Bane
11-05-2012, 09:48 AM
Carr should have been resigned no doubt.It's not like we needed the $$$ for a QB or anything.

Rausch
11-05-2012, 09:50 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

Carr is more physically gifted with bigger upside than Flowers.

Flowers is the more consistent and rounded player...

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 09:50 AM
if he had kept guys like

Waters
Barth
Shaun Smith
Ron Edwards
Pollard
Wade Smith
Brandon Carr
Jason Babin
Ill even throw in turds like Wallace Gilberry

lets be honest all these veterans are better stop gaps and talent than Pioli going out and drafting and wasting picks on GUARDS, TACKLES, D-LINE, BAD CBs, every ****ing draft.

These guys fill holes and depth that was already here. he could have spent draft picks elsewhere and taken gambles on potential playmakers because of what he had kept in house.

but he didnt, because he thinks he can find the next Richard Seymour or Mark Bavaro or Matt Light every ****ing draft pick

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 09:50 AM
It's a process and we are all familiar with the process and Cassel is a team leader that is gonna work hard and work tremendously hard because he is a team leader and a captain that's a hard worker and we are gonna fight through all of this and we should have high expectations in suggest and then lower expectations once the games start.

It's a process.

fuck fuck fuck fuck shit motherfuck fuck fuck sonofastupidbitch fuck fuck

How did Chunt not fire him during the bye week!!??? Or this past Friday!!??


Fuck

ChiefMojo
11-05-2012, 09:51 AM
We just let guys go since we are supposedly saving the money for the next guy but we never re-sign a high profile FA of our own rarely... Patriot way!

BossChief
11-05-2012, 09:51 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

Contrary to this report, Carr has been getting burnt up in Dallas.

Bowser
11-05-2012, 09:52 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

I screamed and screamed that we should have kept Carr AND brought in Routt, and got flamed for it. We certainly had the cap space. Matter of fact, the abscence of Carr may be why we haven't had the ability to blitz like we did in the second half of the season last year when our defense really stepped up.

And the Gonzalez thing is inexcusable, particularly when you turn him into Javier Arenas. Possibly one of the worst trades this team has ever made.

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 09:53 AM
you guys do realize this same scenario happens again this offseason but instead of Carr and Bowe it will be Albert and Bowe

so we are losing another one of our few good players that Carl + Herm drafted us for nothing, because Pioli is a stubborn doucher.

BossChief
11-05-2012, 09:53 AM
if he had kept guys like

Waters
Barth
Shaun Smith
Ron Edwards
Pollard
Wade Smith
Brandon Carr
Jason Babin
Ill even throw in turds like Wallace Gilberry

lets be honest all these veterans are better stop gaps and talent than Pioli going out and drafting and wasting picks on GUARDS, TACKLES, D-LINE, BAD CBs, every ****ing draft.

These guys fill holes and depth that was already here. he could have spent draft picks elsewhere and taken gambles on potential playmakers because of
what he had kept in house.

but he didnt, because he thinks he can find the next Richard Seymour or Mark Bavaro or Matt Light every ****ing draft pick
You forgot Tony Gonzalez.

It's a process.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 09:55 AM
if he had kept guys like

Waters
Barth
Shaun Smith
Ron Edwards
Pollard
Wade Smith
Brandon Carr
Jason Babin
Ill even throw in turds like Wallace Gilberry

lets be honest all these veterans are better stop gaps and talent than Pioli going out and drafting and wasting picks on GUARDS, TACKLES, D-LINE, BAD CBs, every ****ing draft.

These guys fill holes and depth that was already here. he could have spent draft picks elsewhere and taken gambles on potential playmakers because of what he had kept in house.

but he didnt, because he thinks he can find the next Richard Seymour or Mark Bavaro or Matt Light every ****ing draft pick

all this, and he could've kept Tony G (just because he requested a trade), kept Connor Barth (and used the pick he used on Succop somewhere else), traded to Dorsey to ATL when they were still willing to give at least a 2nd for him, brough in Hasselbeck when Haley wanted him...

Fuck motherfucking fuck shit fuck bitch

No wonder no one worth a fuck will even entertain the idea of dealing with Pioli anymore. He's a JOKE.

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 09:55 AM
You forgot Tony Gonzalez.

It's a process.

you are right. Had he kept Tony G we would have never had to see that awful scenario where he trades back up in the 3rd to draft Tony Moeaki with Jimmy Graham and all those other good players still on the board.

he could have saved himself some reputation from not looking like a stupid asshole taking a brokedick from his boy Ferentz because of the Cleveland Browns suck n fuck tree of shitheads

Rausch
11-05-2012, 09:56 AM
Pioli let good players walk, drafted mostly average-at-best guys to replace them, and won less games than Herman fucking Edwards...

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 09:56 AM
you guys do realize this same scenario happens again this offseason but instead of Carr and Bowe it will be Albert and Bowe

so we are losing another one of our few good players that Carl + Herm drafted us for nothing, because Pioli is a stubborn doucher.

:mad:

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 09:58 AM
you guys do realize this same scenario happens again this offseason but instead of Carr and Bowe it will be Albert and Bowe

so we are losing another one of our few good players that Carl + Herm drafted us for nothing, because Pioli is a stubborn doucher.


this is why he should be fired today.

Valiant
11-05-2012, 10:00 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

Not anymore, especially in a pass happy qb league.

TEX
11-05-2012, 10:00 AM
I screamed and screamed that we should have kept Carr AND brought in Routt, and got flamed for it. We certainly had the cap space. Matter of fact, the abscence of Carr may be why we haven't had the ability to blitz like we did in the second half of the season last year when our defense really stepped up.

And the Gonzalez thing is inexcusable, particularly when you turn him into Javier Arenas. Possibly one of the worst trades this team has ever made.

I was with you on Carr.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-05-2012, 10:00 AM
It's all about the right 53, any good players should not remain as part of that.

Bowser
11-05-2012, 10:02 AM
you guys do realize this same scenario happens again this offseason but instead of Carr and Bowe it will be Albert and Bowe

so we are losing another one of our few good players that Carl + Herm drafted us for nothing, because Pioli is a stubborn doucher.

Oh, absolutley. This is how I see it going down....


- They will let Bowe walk outright, getting nothing for him. They will ride heavily on his drops and "lack of production when the game is on the line" over the years as a reason to not invest superstar type money in him. He will go to a team with a high tier QB and dominate.

- They will offer Alberet a laughably bad contract. Lowball him, expecting him to take the "home town deal" approach. He'll decline, go to a better team offereing a mil or two more a season, and be a solid contibutor for them.

- They will be stagnant again in free agency, believing they have the players here that will buy into the message the staff is selling. Expect to be right at the floor limit in spending next season.

-They will franchise Colquitt.


All of that equals me saving thousands yet again next season, as I don't spend a dime at the stadium on Sundays.


(DISCLAIMER - All of that is subject to change if Pioli and his minions get the boot)

siberian khatru
11-05-2012, 10:05 AM
-They will franchise Colquitt.




ROFL :deevee:

Hoover
11-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Had we given the $$ to Bowe it would have been one thing, but we let Carr walk and now we are in a bind with Bowe. Yuck

Deberg_1990
11-05-2012, 10:11 AM
On one hand, I can see what Pioli was trying to do with getting rid of Gonzalez and Waters. They werent buying into what Pioli was selling and you dont build teams around aging Tight ends and Guards.

Ultimately, Pioli just sounds like an arrogant D-Bag who has a way of turning players off. Its Amazing about how much JWhit was right about Pioli 3 years ago.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 10:12 AM
We need a document outlining these failed personnel moves and how they affected the team to the minutest detail (i.e., cutting Barth, drafting Succop and Barth has been the slightly more consitant kicker; tradin Tony for the pick used on Javier Arenas, who is a decent special teamer but a liability in coverage, etc.)

And then hand them out at the Cincy game.

Chief Faithful
11-05-2012, 10:12 AM
I wish it had been possible to keep Carr and Gonzalez, and I really hope Bowe and Albert stay, but to be honest until they get a QB that can drop and accurately pass downfield this discussion is meaningless. I'm more upset that they didn't resign Orton than Carr.

Sitting here in Atlanta watching Matt Ryan everyweek it is easy to see that Cassel and Quinn are a waste of time. Who cares what CB leaves when your QB cannot execute plays over 10 yards. And it is good to see Gonzo getting to play with a real QB.

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 10:18 AM
I wish it had been possible to keep Carr and Gonzalez, and I really hope Bowe and Albert stay, but to be honest until they get a QB that can drop and accurately pass downfield this discussion is meaningless. I'm more upset that they didn't resign Orton than Carr.

Sitting here in Atlanta watching Matt Ryan everyweek it is easy to see that Cassel and Quinn are a waste of time. Who cares what CB leaves when your QB cannot execute plays over 10 yards. And it is good to see Gonzo getting to play with a real QB.


because if you dont have a good QB or arent in a position to get one, you can still spend the NEXT FOUR SEASONS STACKING YOUR ROSTER AT POSITIONAL TALENT until you bring in a good young QB or a veteran guy.

see: 49ers, Vikings, Texans, Broncos, Miami, etc

theelusiveeightrop
11-05-2012, 10:20 AM
Sorry if this question already asked. What has Pioli accomplished?

*crickets*

KILLER_CLOWN
11-05-2012, 10:20 AM
because if you dont have a good QB or arent in a position to get one, you can still spend the NEXT FOUR SEASONS STACKING YOUR ROSTER AT POSITIONAL TALENT until you bring in a good young QB or a veteran guy.

see: 49ers, Vikings, Texans, Broncos, Miami, etc

If we were going to do that you could have replaced Broncos with Chiefs, but since we have Pissoli it aint happening. Going to have to suck and draft a QB high, that is if Pissoli will do that.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-05-2012, 10:20 AM
Sorry if this question already asked. What has Pioli accomplished?

*crickets*

BS!

He made Clark a shitload of money.

sedated
11-05-2012, 10:21 AM
Imagine how badly he is going to get ripped after he lets Bowe walk.

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 10:24 AM
hes losing somebody decent in the offseason, and i hope this entire board finally hates him because of it.

because hes going to lose one of the clearly good players left on this team for nothing, and because it isnt one of his draft picks, he doesnt care.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-05-2012, 10:25 AM
hes losing somebody decent in the offseason, and i hope this entire board finally hates him because of it.

because hes going to lose one of the clearly good players left on this team for nothing, and because it isnt one of his draft picks, he doesnt care.

Wait a minute, who here doesn't hate him? I must have missed something.

Chief Faithful
11-05-2012, 10:26 AM
because if you dont have a good QB or arent in a position to get one, you can still spend the NEXT FOUR SEASONS STACKING YOUR ROSTER AT POSITIONAL TALENT until you bring in a good young QB or a veteran guy.

see: 49ers, Vikings, Texans, Broncos, Miami, etc

They may not have been in position to draft a good QB, but they were definitely in position to upgrade the position with Orton. The overall talent level of this team is fine.

carlos3652
11-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Pioli traded TG, that was one of his first moves after he traded for Matt Cassel and drafted Tyson Jackson

Thanks - sorry, thought of Allen for whatever reason...

Although TG wanted gone anyways...

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Wait a minute, who here doesn't hate him? I must have missed something.


there are still many that defend his drafting and FA selection with the Cassel defense. (aka but the jury is still out on Piolis skill players because they dont have a QB)

that is essentially defending Pioli that he actually drafts talent. But they will see the light soon

mcaj22
11-05-2012, 10:27 AM
They may not have been in position to draft a good QB, but they were definitely in position to upgrade the position with Orton. The overall talent level of this team is fine.

but the talent level is not fine. which is why we are 1-7, the worst in the league, getting blown out of games and is also the SUBJECT and theme of this very thread and the OP. Talent walking for nothing

if there was overall talent they would win some games. Like 5-11, 6-10, 7-9 type wins. Like teams with talent but bad coaching do. The 49ers, Dolphins, etc

we are Detroit Lions 0-16 bad or last years Colts or Rams bad. Where the roster not only will need a whole new staff and a young QB but a complete ****ing overhaul of talent like those teams did.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 10:39 AM
Sorry if this question already asked. What has Pioli accomplished?

*crickets*


resigned a bunch of people from the Vermeil and Herm eras, and he's hit on a 3rd rd LB and a 7th rd kicker (that was a replacement for someone just as good that he either cut or let walk.)

Fired a real good YOUNG HC and replaced him with a fat blitering yes-man, alienated an entire fanbase, and has reduced the Kansas City Chiefs to the absolutely worst team in the league, a literal laughingstock of a franchise.

EDIT : Traded the greatest TE in NFL history durin his prime for a draft pick that he used on a decent special teamer with questionable cover skills. That has to be mentioned.

Saccopoo
11-05-2012, 10:41 AM
BS!

He made Clark a shitload of money.

No he didn't.

The television contract made Clark a shit ton of money.

Pioli is actually costing Clark money. Seats, parking, concessions, merchandise, etc. The more the Chiefs suck, the less people are buying of all that stuff.

gblowfish
11-05-2012, 10:52 AM
I'd much rather have paid for a slightly scorched Brandon Carr than a fully toasted Fred Sanford.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:12 AM
but the talent level is not fine. which is why we are 1-7, the worst in the league, getting blown out of games and is also the SUBJECT and theme of this very thread and the OP. Talent walking for nothing

if there was overall talent they would win some games. Like 5-11, 6-10, 7-9 type wins. Like teams with talent but bad coaching do. The 49ers, Dolphins, etc

we are Detroit Lions 0-16 bad or last years Colts or Rams bad. Where the roster not only will need a whole new staff and a young QB but a complete ****ing overhaul of talent like those teams did.

it's true - there is NO depth and glaring holes.

QB, Defensive back, and D-line are places of weakness. The top-end talent (Bowe, Charles, Flowers, the Starting LBs) is negated by the lack of depth and lack of surrounding talent, bottom line. Couple that with the lack of direction by the coaching staff, and - presto! 1-7.

Hell, if NO hadn't been reeling from losing their coach, we'd never have beaten them. We certainly wouldn't be able to beat them at this point of the season.

Chocolate Hog
11-05-2012, 11:18 AM
Contrary to this report, Carr has been getting burnt up in Dallas.

This.

I wasn't too upset they let him go. You can win a super bowl with a guy like Routt as your #2. The thing that sucks is the money saved from not signing Carr wasn't used to get Manning or extend Bowe.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-05-2012, 11:21 AM
I know paying corners that much is absurd, but the Chiefs should not have let Carr get away. He's a lock down corner in every sense of the word.

Honestly, Carr is better than Flowers.

I got blasted for making that last statement a few months ago. You simply cannot let the hardest working man on your football team walk away.

TEX
11-05-2012, 11:23 AM
This.

I wasn't too upset they let him go. You can win a super bowl with a guy like Routt as your #2. The thing that sucks is the money saved from not signing Carr wasn't used to get Manning or extend Bowe.

Can win one easier with two corners the quality of Flowers and Carr.

Chocolate Hog
11-05-2012, 11:27 AM
Can win one easier with two corners the quality of Flowers and Carr.

Maybe. It's not like the Giants, Colts, or Steelers had great corners and when Green Bay won the title Woodson was out for most of the game.

HC_Chief
11-05-2012, 11:31 AM
Maybe. It's not like the Giants, Colts, or Steelers had great corners and when Green Bay won the title Woodson was out for most of the game.

The point is not the relative merits of the cornerback position, but the fact that talent is allowed to leave when there is more than adequate cap space to retain it. Either Pioli is a fool, or Clark has burdened the franchise with his own personal salary cap.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Maybe. It's not like the Giants, Colts, or Steelers had great corners and when Green Bay won the title Woodson was out for most of the game.

Giant's Corey Webster is pretty damn good. Tramon Williams was a monster when GB won a SB as well.

Incidentally, all of those teams had good or elite safety play. Safeties that aren't required to play man-coverage the entire game.

Ace Gunner
11-05-2012, 11:35 AM
the reason Carr is so sorely missed is because this front seven blows. If it weren't for Carr/Flowers the past few years, this team would look about like it does, really.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:36 AM
I got blasted for making that last statement a few months ago. You simply cannot let the hardest working man on your football team walk away.

Exactly!!

And imagine how much more imaginative the defense could be - I mean, the defense RAC usually wants to go with, the DBs are expected to be flexible, as in play either S or CB (there is no true 'FS' or 'SS' in that D - both are expected to cover either side depending on the situation) - Berry is that guy (when he's 100% - and he's not right now) and Carr TOTALLY was that guy.

Carr could play either side CB, S or Nickel without being a liability at any (I'm talking to you, Travis Daniels and Javier Arenas); he could man up, and cover his zone. One-on-one or playing underneath assignments...

He was a model teammate and one of the most versatile and complete football players on the team...

and they let him walk, and signed a man-to-man cover corner who struggles with reads and zones.

Awesome.

Routt should've been a nickle back here, and Travis Daniels should be working at Home Depot.

But no, it's a process.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Exactly!!

And imagine how much more imaginative the defense could be - I mean, the defense RAC usually wants to go with, the DBs are expected to be flexible, as in play either S or CB (there is no true 'FS' or 'SS' in that D - both are expected to cover either side depending on the situation) - Berry is that guy (when he's 100% - and he's not right now) and Carr TOTALLY was that guy.

Carr could play either side CB, S or Nickel without being a liability at any (I'm talking to you, Travis Daniels and Javier Arenas); he could man up, and cover his zone. One-on-one or playing underneath assignments...

He was a model teammate and one of the most versatile and complete football players on the team...

and they let him walk, and signed a man-to-man cover corner who struggles with reads and zones.

Awesome.

Routt should've been a nickle back here, and Travis Daniels should be working at Home Depot.

But no, it's a process.
Carr did none of those things. He played the right side and right side only. Just like Routt.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Exactly!!

And imagine how much more imaginative the defense could be - I mean, the defense RAC usually wants to go with, the DBs are expected to be flexible, as in play either S or CB (there is no true 'FS' or 'SS' in that D - both are expected to cover either side depending on the situation) - Berry is that guy (when he's 100% - and he's not right now) and Carr TOTALLY was that guy.



Berry actually plays up in a LB spot covering TEs typically, not in a safety position in our sub package, which we run quite a bit. Carr never did that.

Buckweath
11-05-2012, 11:43 AM
This.

I wasn't too upset they let him go. You can win a super bowl with a guy like Routt as your #2. The thing that sucks is the money saved from not signing Carr wasn't used to get Manning or extend Bowe.

Agree. Carr or no Carr doesn't change much for this team, even though I really liked Carr.

It's all about getting that above-average QB and a good HC now. I'm still convinced that this team has top 10 talent outside of QB but definitly, some guys have underachieved.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Carr did none of those things. He played the right side and right side only. Just like Routt.

But he was certainly capable. He has the physical talent, ball awareness, football IQ and work ethic to play either side, the middle, and in man or zone coverages.

Routt is strictly a man-to-man guy...and I think he a LCB his entire career in Oakland. Don't know if that could be a reason for his poor play, or if the disease os suck permeating the team has affected him to.

Chicken-or-the-egg.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Exactly!!



Routt should've been a nickle back here,



Routt would get worked much worse on the inside. If you think he is playing horrible now, he would be that much more ineffective playing inside IMO.

Javier isn't the answer either. Don't think I'm saying that. We have no quality RCB or nickel/slot/inside corner (whatever term you prefer).

Rausch
11-05-2012, 11:46 AM
Routt is strictly a man-to-man guy...and I think he a LCB his entire career in Oakland. Don't know if that could be a reason for his poor play, or if the disease os suck permeating the team has affected him to.

Routt is flat out one dumb som'bidge. Stupid.

He's got much better athletic ability than Carr or Flowers but he'll never see it to the end because he's a fucking idiot. He's easily played (jawed from his game) by WR's and consistently makes mental errors.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:46 AM
But he was certainly capable. He has the physical talent, ball awareness, football IQ and work ethic to play either side, the middle, and in man or zone coverages.

Routt is strictly a man-to-man guy...and I think he a LCB his entire career in Oakland. Don't know if that could be a reason for his poor play, or if the disease os suck permeating the team has affected him to.

Chicken-or-the-egg.

Carr would get worked on the inside IMO. He has also struggled playing the LCB spot for Dallas this year.

He is an effective man and zone player however.

Routt played RCB when Nmamdi was there and had his best results. He has struggled here. Simple as that.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:47 AM
Berry actually plays up in a LB spot covering TEs typically, not in a safety position in our sub package, which we run quite a bit. Carr never did that.

He does that in run support too - when he's 100%, Berry is probably the most versatile player on that D. You'd figure that with Berry, Flowers and Carr in you D backfield, you would be set for a decade and able to run any Defense you want at anytime. Routt would've been a great nickel back and insurance policy.

not resigning Carr = major Pioli fail

Deberg_1990
11-05-2012, 11:47 AM
the reason Carr is so sorely missed is because this front seven blows.

Well yes that + no QB + an incompetent coaching staff = disaster

Buckweath
11-05-2012, 11:47 AM
but the talent level is not fine. which is why we are 1-7, the worst in the league, getting blown out of games and is also the SUBJECT and theme of this very thread and the OP. Talent walking for nothing

if there was overall talent they would win some games. Like 5-11, 6-10, 7-9 type wins. Like teams with talent but bad coaching do. The 49ers, Dolphins, etc

we are Detroit Lions 0-16 bad or last years Colts or Rams bad. Where the roster not only will need a whole new staff and a young QB but a complete ****ing overhaul of talent like those teams did.

Ok do you really believe that this present Chiefs team is less talented than that 2010 team who finished 10-6??

This team is being killed by terrible QB play, terrible coaching and turnovers in bunch by any player really.

This defense without Berry played great for the second half of last year, playing the likes of Brady, Big Ben and Rodgers. I'm not concerned about the defense once the turnovers can stop and going forward the next few years. Now, get a QB and a HC who has a brain.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Routt would get worked much worse on the inside. If you think he is playing horrible now, he would be that much more ineffective playing inside IMO.

Javier isn't the answer either. Don't think I'm saying that. We have no quality RCB or nickel/slot/inside corner (whatever term you prefer).


Javier is a LIABILITY in pass coverage, no matter where he lines up.

He's a decent special teamer...who we used a 2nd rd pick on...the we got in exchange for Tony G.

Buddha wept.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:51 AM
He does that in run support too - when he's 100%, Berry is probably the most versatile player on that D. You'd figure that with Berry, Flowers and Carr in you D backfield, you would be set for a decade and able to run any Defense you want at anytime. Routt would've been a great nickel back and insurance policy.

not resigning Carr = major Pioli fail

Disagree with nickel, but definitely as insurance. I'm not sure any of our guys in Flowers, Routt, or Carr can play inside. Primarily because none of them have experience doing it extensively. It is an entirely different, unique position. Angles and techniques emphasized playing inside is totally different. The player also has to have fantastic lateral quickness.

Flowers is the only guy that might be able to play inside out of the 3 IMO. I wouldn't mind if we had started originally playing him inside on 3rd down like Ladarius Webb or Antoine Winfield or when teams move their #1's inside (Detroit does this with Calvin quite a bit). Now, this isn't something to experiment throughout the season typically, but since this season is lost, I would give it a shot.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Javier is a LIABILITY in pass coverage, no matter where he lines up.

He's a decent special teamer...who we used a 2nd rd pick on...the we got in exchange for Tony G.

Buddha wept.

Yup. Except for the game against NE last year.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Ok do you really believe that this present Chiefs team is less talented than that 2010 team who finished 10-6??


Nope. The last place schedule and great conditioning combined with an amazing job by a (now largely departed) coaching staff was the reason.

There was a lack of depth on that team, too (remember what happened when Lewis was hurt and McGraw started at safety??)

The coaching staff in 2010 was just better at playing to the team's strengths and being WAY more imaginative in terms of manufacturing points.

This team now still has some real good top-end talent, with no roster depth, no coaching direction or a decent front-office.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Yup. Except for the game against NE last year.

Yeah, I forgot about that.

It must've been an aberration.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 11:58 AM
Yeah, I forgot about that.

It must've been an aberration.

Clearly. Welker was either tired or Javier turned into Revis. LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-05-2012, 12:01 PM
I tried to sugar coat them letting Carr go, but it was obviously dumb as hell. Team's YPA allowed has skyrocketed this year. Obviously the turnovers are directly leading to the blowouts and 1-7, but everything is just stacking up to be the perfect shit storm.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:02 PM
Disagree with nickel, but definitely as insurance. I'm not sure any of our guys in Flowers, Routt, or Carr can play inside. Primarily because none of them have experience doing it extensively. It is an entirely different, unique position. Angles and techniques emphasized playing inside is totally different. The player also has to have fantastic lateral quickness.

Flowers is the only guy that might be able to play inside out of the 3 IMO. I wouldn't mind if we had started originally playing him inside on 3rd down like Ladarius Webb or Antoine Winfield or when teams move their #1's inside (Detroit does this with Calvin quite a bit). Now, this isn't something to experiment throughout the season typically, but since this season is lost, I would give it a shot.

Lots of teams move their #1's guys inside; I'd totally start moving Flowers inside, or even putting Routt manned up on the team's #2 exclusively while experimenting with rolling double coverages and zones to combat the #1 guy.

I honestly think RAC is too overwhelmed by being the HC on this sinking rat trap to be an effective DC; he's now just going through the motions as a DC, calling what may have worked last year.

Don't get me started on Daboll and this offense...

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-05-2012, 12:02 PM
Oh, and Slowmo should be negged to all hell for posting this crap.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Clearly. Welker was either tired or Javier turned into Revis. LMAO

Then, midnight struck, his chariot turned back into a pumpkin, and he went back to being Javier Arenas.

Sorter
11-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Oh, and Slowmo should be negged to all hell for posting this crap.

Incoming, captain!

Sorter
11-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Then, midnight struck, his chariot turned back into a pumpkin, and he went back to being Javier Arenas.

LMAO

Sorter
11-05-2012, 12:06 PM
]Lots of teams move their #1's guys inside;[/B] I'd totally start moving Flowers inside, or even putting Routt manned up on the team's #2 exclusively while experimenting with rolling double coverages and zones to combat the #1 guy.

I honestly think RAC is too overwhelmed by being the HC on this sinking rat trap to be an effective DC; he's now just going through the motions as a DC, calling what may have worked last year.

Don't get me started on Daboll and this offense...

Typically, they are smaller, quicker guys. Winfield, Webb, Woodson (until recently) are examples. However, Nnamdi and DRC are examples of two different outside players who have great top end speed that can't play inside. Routt to me, would be even worse than those two were.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-05-2012, 12:07 PM
Incoming, captain!

:clap:

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:10 PM
Typically, they are smaller, quicker guys. Winfield, Webb, Woodson (until recently) are examples. However, Nnamdi and DRC are examples of two different outside players who have great top end speed that can't play inside. Routt to me, would be even worse than those two were.

It's a moot point, anyway - he's the RCB now,(edited for wording) ______ or for worse. We don't have anyone capable of playing the nickel, or of stepping in if Flowers or Routt get hurt.

Jalil Brown is terrible. So is Travis Daniels. And they are the ugly stepsisters to Javier's Cinderella; i.e. they don't even get to play princess for a night.

Bowser
11-05-2012, 12:14 PM
Basically, we have a shitload of guys that should be playing safety trying to play nickel corner. Sounds about right for the New England Castoff Club.

Rausch
11-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Basically, we have a shitload of guys that should be playing safety trying to play nickel corner. Sounds about right for the New England Castoff Club.

So you're saying we'll probably draft another safety?...

http://deliciouscakeproject.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1156646-fffffuuuuuuu_1_super.jpg

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:18 PM
Basically, we have a shitload of guys that should be playing safety trying to play nickel corner. Sounds about right for the New England Castoff Club.

except Belichick would turn Arenas and Routt into All-Pro safeties, and take Breaston and Terrance Copper and turn them into effective part-time nickel CBs...

Sorter
11-05-2012, 12:18 PM
Basically, we have a shitload of guys that should be playing safety trying to play nickel corner. Sounds about right for the New England Castoff Club.

Basically, we have a SS playing ILB and playing man on TEs by himself for entire games. We have a midget slot corner in Arenas who is not good in coverage (think Tyrann Matheiu but less athletic), and a RCB in Routt who is struggling.

Oh, and our two safeties in Lewis/Elam are not even average. Lewis also can't tackle.

Basically, Pioli has done everything he can to draft and bring in people that can't play man-coverage. Additionally, the guy that is great at playing zone and reading the QB (Berry) is playing ILB in our sub-package.

This team is full of fail, top to bottom.

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Basically, we have a SS playing ILB and playing man on TEs by himself for entire games. We have a midget slot corner in Arenas who is not good in coverage (think Tyrann Matheiu but less athletic), and a RCB in Routt who is struggling.

Oh, and our two safeties in Lewis/Elam are not even average. Lewis also can't tackle.

Basically, Pioli has done everything he can to draft and bring in people that can't play man-coverage. Additionally, the guy that is great at playing zone and reading the QB (Berry) is playing ILB in our sub-package.

This team is full of fail, top to bottom.


yeeeeelp.

Derrick Johnson...Remember when he used to pick off passes and return them for TDs?? Remember when he dropped off in coverage a lot on passing downs, and Hali would rush the passer a lot??

Remember when we had a defensive back-end that allowed the LBs to fly all over the field?? Remember when DJ covered the TEs and Eric Berry was all over the Defensive backfield??

GoShox
11-05-2012, 12:23 PM
It's a moot point, anyway - he's the RCB now,(edited for wording) ______ or for worse. We don't have anyone capable of playing the nickel, or of stepping in if Flowers or Routt get hurt.

Jalil Brown is terrible. So is Travis Daniels. And they are the ugly stepsisters to Javier's Cinderella; i.e. they don't even get to play princess for a night.

Our starting corner for the Falcons game hadn't played in an NFL game for two years. How sad is that?

DaWolf
11-05-2012, 12:28 PM
Wow.

"I saw (Lions C) Dominic Raiola called me out, asking who the aimless, anonymous GM is who criticized the great Lions. ‘Who is this person?’ It’s the guy who rejects you everytime he watches your tape and thinks you are a complete fraud. It’s the guy who didn’t think you could play when you came out of college and still doesn’t think you can play now. … If he spent as much time working the other muscles in his body as he does his jaw, he might have had the chance to be an average backup. You can put that in print.”

rabblerouser
11-05-2012, 12:29 PM
Our starting corner for the Falcons game hadn't played in an NFL game for two years. How sad is that?

bad enough to make Buddha weep at the suffering.

-King-
11-05-2012, 12:33 PM
if he had kept guys like

Waters
Barth
Shaun Smith
Ron Edwards
Pollard
Wade Smith
Brandon Carr
Jason Babin
Ill even throw in turds like Wallace Gilberry

lets be honest all these veterans are better stop gaps and talent than Pioli going out and drafting and wasting picks on GUARDS, TACKLES, D-LINE, BAD CBs, every ****ing draft.

These guys fill holes and depth that was already here. he could have spent draft picks elsewhere and taken gambles on potential playmakers because of what he had kept in house.

but he didnt, because he thinks he can find the next Richard Seymour or Mark Bavaro or Matt Light every ****ing draft pick
Only good player on that list is Carr. Even Babin who you guys have been dickriding is having a terrible year. He didn't even play half of the snaps last week.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaWolf
11-05-2012, 12:33 PM
Getting rid of those players is fine, as long as you are replacing them with other useful parts. For example, you want to let Carr go? Fine. Now go sign some pass rushers and improve your pass rush so that you don't need to have two highly paid corners. But if you let the corner go, AND your pass rush still sucks, well that's the issue...

scho63
11-05-2012, 01:41 PM
We're replacing good players with inferior ones on our way to the "WORST 53".

What a complete farce.

Today's moves by the Chiefs are like scooping out a bucket of water halfway through the sinking of the Titantic-too little too late

B_Ambuehl
11-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Someone pull up Carrs PFF rating. There's talk of him sucking it up for Dallas, but as one who watches all the cowboys games I don't see it. Dallas gives up crap over the middle vs zone but Carr isn't thrown at often. In fact he looks to be iimproved over what he showed here, and he was pretty good here.

Oh Snap
11-05-2012, 01:47 PM
I have lost all confidence in Pioli. He doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Time for a change...

BigMeatballDave
11-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Someone pull up Carrs PFF rating. There's talk of him sucking it up for Dallas, but as one who watches all the cowboys games I don't see it. Dallas gives up crap over the middle vs zone but Carr isn't thrown at often. In fact he looks to be iimproved over what he showed here, and he was pretty good here.

He was good with the Chiefs, that's all I care about.

CarrOnCruzControl
11-19-2012, 08:46 AM
I just wanted to pop in and say hey. I'm a Cowboys fan and I really do come in peace.
I check out other teams forums regarding our free agent signings to get a feel of what the fans' preception of that player was.

I really wanted Carr this off season, over Finnegan, because of the age / upside / better overall attitude. I was thrilled we got him and I know how you all feel losing a player dear to your hearts.

He's done very well for us and speaks very highly of his time with the Chiefs. He always talks about how your organization gave him a chance.

I'm glad to see him used all over the field here. He's played LCB, RCB, SCB and Safety and done well.

Through these first 10 games of the season he's given up 26 receptions on 44 targets (59% comp) for 379 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT and 6 PDs... which I'm very impressed with given the QBs in our Division, and the fact that he's on an entirely new defense... and going up against #1 WRs. Just 37 yards given up a game? I can definitely live with that.

Now my question, because I didn't watch many of your games, is who was the primary safety backing him up?

Our safeties have been banged up, so I'm curious if he played with the help of Berry? If not, that would make sense as to why he's doing well here despite our damaged D.

Thanks for your time.

Brainiac
11-19-2012, 08:48 AM
I just wanted to pop in and say hey. I'm a Cowboys fan and I really do come in peace.
I check out other teams forums regarding our free agent signings to get a feel of what the fans' preception of that player was.

I really wanted Carr this off season, over Finnegan, because of the age / upside / better overall attitude. I was thrilled we got him and I know how you all feel losing a player dear to your hearts.

He's done very well for us and speaks very highly of his time with the Chiefs. He always talks about how your organization gave him a chance.

I'm glad to see him used all over the field here. He's played LCB, RCB, SCB and Safety and done well.

Through these first 10 games of the season he's given up 26 receptions on 44 targets (59% comp) for 379 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT and 6 PDs... which I'm very impressed with given the QBs in our Division, and the fact that he's on an entirely new defense... and going up against #1 WRs. Just 37 yards given up a game? I can definitely live with that.

Now my question, because I didn't watch many of your games, is who was the primary safety backing him up?

Our safeties have been banged up, so I'm curious if he played with the help of Berry? If not, that would make sense as to why he's doing well here despite our damaged D.

Thanks for your time.
Last year he got no help from Eric Berry. Berry blew out his ACL early in the season.

Damn it, Egoli!

mcaj22
11-19-2012, 08:56 AM
I just wanted to pop in and say hey. I'm a Cowboys fan and I really do come in peace.
I check out other teams forums regarding our free agent signings to get a feel of what the fans' preception of that player was.

I really wanted Carr this off season, over Finnegan, because of the age / upside / better overall attitude. I was thrilled we got him and I know how you all feel losing a player dear to your hearts.

He's done very well for us and speaks very highly of his time with the Chiefs. He always talks about how your organization gave him a chance.

I'm glad to see him used all over the field here. He's played LCB, RCB, SCB and Safety and done well.

Through these first 10 games of the season he's given up 26 receptions on 44 targets (59% comp) for 379 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT and 6 PDs... which I'm very impressed with given the QBs in our Division, and the fact that he's on an entirely new defense... and going up against #1 WRs. Just 37 yards given up a game? I can definitely live with that.

Now my question, because I didn't watch many of your games, is who was the primary safety backing him up?

Our safeties have been banged up, so I'm curious if he played with the help of Berry? If not, that would make sense as to why he's doing well here despite our damaged D.

Thanks for your time.

he played with absolute dogshit at safety his entire career as a Chief. He had one year with Berry at SS but even than that wasnt on his side. He played with guys like Kendrick Lewis (a horrible 5th round pick), Jarrad Page (scrub), Bernie Pollard, Sabby Piscitelli, Jon McGraw, MIKE ****ING BROWN. Yes that Mike Brown from the Bears. just a rotating cast of a pile of shit players at safety. He never had any talent behind him and pretty much progressed as a good corner entirely on his own without the help of any talent on this team on the back end, that's for sure.

Chief_For_Life58
11-19-2012, 09:03 AM
he played with absolute dogshit at safety his entire career as a Chief. He had one year with Berry at SS but even than that wasnt on his side. He played with guys like Kendrick Lewis (a horrible 5th round pick), Jarrad Page (scrub), Bernie Pollard, Sabby Piscitelli, Jon McGraw, MIKE ****ING BROWN. Yes that Mike Brown from the Bears. just a rotating cast of a pile of shit players at safety. He never had any talent behind him and pretty much progressed as a good corner entirely on his own without the help of any talent on this team on the back end, that's for sure.

lol

mcaj22
11-19-2012, 09:04 AM
laugh but it's true. sad but true

Von Dumbass
11-19-2012, 09:08 AM
From PFW this week...

• “What’s really interesting to me is what the Hunt family will do (this offseason). I think Clark (Hunt) will start leaning on some of the old regime and go back to what the people of Kansas City know and love. They never should have gotten rid of (former GM) Carl Peterson. It wasn’t like things were broken — they just decided they were going to change directions and it cost them.” http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/18/insider-henne-could-be-good-if-mentally-tougher

notorious
11-19-2012, 09:09 AM
From PFW this week...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/18/insider-henne-could-be-good-if-mentally-tougher

:facepalm:

Not you, but what you quoted.

mcaj22
11-19-2012, 09:11 AM
Clark is really clueless outside of his circle of the same 10 guys that were relevant in 1996. and when he took a chance on the Patriots Tree he got exposed for what giant fucking frauds they were. But I dont know how he didnt see that with how much failure there was already out there in Mangini, Romeo in Cleveland, Charlie Weiss everywhere, etc

htismaqe
11-19-2012, 09:23 AM
Surely we don't deserve THAT.

Suffer through 4 years of hell only to GET CARL BACK?!?!?!

CarrOnCruzControl
11-19-2012, 09:37 AM
Ah thanks for the insight. I completely forgot about Berry's injury.
Sensabaugh is not a bad safety by any means, but the other side has been a turnstile with injuries this season.

Funny. Carr went from one (Eric) Berry to another Barry (Church) at safety.

Hope everything works out for you guys. I enjoy watching Houston and Hali when I get the chance.

BigChiefTablet
11-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Scott Pioli and Romeo Crennel — making fans long for the days of Carl Peterson and Marty Shottenheimer

KCChiefsFan88
11-19-2012, 09:56 AM
• “What’s really interesting to me is what the Hunt family will do (this offseason). I think Clark (Hunt) will start leaning on some of the old regime and go back to what the people of Kansas City know and love. They never should have gotten rid of (former GM) Carl Peterson. It wasn’t like things were broken — they just decided they were going to change directions and it cost them.”

A 2-14 record in today's NFL is the definition of things being broken... even if it was a so called "rebuilding year" (the record of Dictator Carl's final team in KC).

This article also overlooks the fact the Chiefs had only two playoff appearances in the final 10 years of Dictator Carl's tenure in KC and had not won a playoff game in the final 15 years of Dictator Carl's tenure.

Chris Meck
11-19-2012, 11:05 AM
Clark is really clueless outside of his circle of the same 10 guys that were relevant in 1996. and when he took a chance on the Patriots Tree he got exposed for what giant ****ing frauds they were. But I dont know how he didnt see that with how much failure there was already out there in Mangini, Romeo in Cleveland, Charlie Weiss everywhere, etc

Listen, it's clear that Pioli was not the great hire it was purported to be, but at the time it was a near consensus home run. You can't act like everyone saw this coming.

Clearly, as another cp poster said, the 'Patriot Way' is stumbling onto Tom Brady in the 6th round and little else matters. In 2008, the jury was very much out on that.

The actual facts of the situation are bad enough.