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RunKC
11-06-2012, 10:06 PM
Get him Clark.

Bring in the walrus!LMAO

But seriously, he's getting the shaft in Philly. He's the best coach of the realistic options who proven the most.

Sorter
11-06-2012, 10:08 PM
His offensive line is ridiculously bad. He's responsible for that.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Thread starting privileges: you should probably lose them.

Simply Red
11-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Fuck you!

rabblerouser
11-06-2012, 10:09 PM
Get him Clark.

Bring in the walrus!LMAO

But seriously, he's getting the shaft in Philly. He's the best coach of the realistic options who proven the most.

No.

:harumph:

TRR
11-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Please no. Reid should have been fired years ago in Philly after pinning his hopes to Kevin Kolb (and Michael Vick).

New World Order
11-06-2012, 10:10 PM
OC Absolutely.

HC No.

Red Beans
11-06-2012, 10:10 PM
.

Bring in the walrus!LMAO


Goo Goo G'joob...fuck you.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:10 PM
His offensive line is ridiculously bad. He's responsible for that.

That line would be just fine if Peters was healthy and they were playing a traditional QB.

JMO.

Id be just fine with Reid, but I hate it when people make ignorant threads just because. This has already been discussed forward and back.

Crush
11-06-2012, 10:11 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/t8uuix.gif

He doesn't know how to run the ball.

Coach
11-06-2012, 10:13 PM
:facepalm:

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Reid runs the west coast offense.

If we are gonna draft Geno or Barkley, there aren't many better options than Andy Reid.

The option shouldn't be easily thrown out or discounted.

RunKC
11-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Thread starting privileges: you should probably lose them.

5 championship games and a SB appearance. Find another coach who is as good or STFU.

Btw-Cowher is not realistic. At all.

Ceej
11-06-2012, 10:16 PM
Thread starting privileges: you should probably lose them.

This xxxxx eleventy Brazilian!

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:18 PM
5 championship games and a SB appearance. Find another coach who is as good or STFU.

Btw-Cowher is not realistic. At all.

Go fist your cat.

New World Order
11-06-2012, 10:18 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/t8uuix.gif

He doesn't know how to run the ball.




Once we get our franchise qb we wont have to. :hmmm:

RunKC
11-06-2012, 10:19 PM
Go fist your cat.

Brilliant insight.

Just like your insight of trading for Tony fucking Romo ROFL

Sorter
11-06-2012, 10:22 PM
That line would be just fine if Peters was healthy and they were playing a traditional QB.

JMO.

Id be just fine with Reid, but I hate it when people make ignorant threads just because. This has already been discussed forward and back.

Yeah, Peters being hurt ruined that team. I don't think a traditional QB survives behind that line though right now. Vick is a tough SOB.

Baconeater
11-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Thread starting privileges: you should probably lose them.
#SAVEOURCHIEFSPLANET

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:23 PM
Once we get our franchise qb we wont have to. :hmmm:

Bullshit.

You dont throw a rookie franchise qb out there and make him throw 45 times a game..thats a recipe for disaster.

You try to replicate what Ben Rothlisberger and Tom Brady did by replicating those run/pass ratios.

I think we have just the RB stable to do just that...JC, Droughn and Grey are all capable of handling the load while the QB learns.

You dont want the kid exposed due to predictability.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:24 PM
Brilliant insight.

Just like your insight of trading for Tony fucking Romo ROFL

does your mom still smell like my pee?

New World Order
11-06-2012, 10:24 PM
Bullshit.

You dont throw a rookie franchise qb out there and make him throw 45 times a game..thats a recipe for disaster.

You try to replicate what Ben Rothlisberger and Tom Brady did by replicating those run/pass ratios.

I think we have just the RB stable to do just that...JC, Droughn and Grey are all capable of handling the load while the QB learns.

You dont want the kid exposed due to predictability.



Well it was sort of a joke. Relax.

Ceej
11-06-2012, 10:27 PM
The big question about Reid is: can he handle a route canal?

That's really my main concern.

Easy 6
11-06-2012, 10:27 PM
NO

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:29 PM
EVERYTHING from here on out needs to be predicated on two things:

Developing a franchise quarterback and developing an attacking defense.

We do those two things and this team is gonna catch lightening in a bottle and not let it go for 15 years.

New World Order
11-06-2012, 10:30 PM
Bullshit.

You dont throw a rookie franchise qb out there and make him throw 45 times a game..thats a recipe for disaster.

You try to replicate what Ben Rothlisberger and Tom Brady did by replicating those run/pass ratios.

I think we have just the RB stable to do just that...JC, Droughn and Grey are all capable of handling the load while the QB learns.

You dont want the kid exposed due to predictability.



btw, what is so great about Shaun Draughn? What other bruising rb are we going to get to complement Charles? We should of went after Michael Bush last year.

mcaj22
11-06-2012, 10:43 PM
Reid is definitely one of the best options out of all the turds we have to pick from when it comes to QB development

so when it comes down to it do I want a coach that hasnt coached in the NFL in 6 years (Cowher) and deal with another potential ego maniac that thinks he has a clue or just take a turd that currently has been in the NFL (Reid) but willing to delegate control (have a GM).

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:47 PM
btw, what is so great about Shaun Draughn? What other bruising rb are we going to get to complement Charles? We should of went after Michael Bush last year.

The kid has done a damn fine job picking up chunks of yards when the team has no real threat of a passing game to help out.

If we get a QB that can force teams to back those safeties off, these 3 backs can go after the throat of opposing defenses.

Sorter
11-06-2012, 10:48 PM
I would rather see Cyrus get Draughn's reps. I'm biased though.

mcaj22
11-06-2012, 10:51 PM
i would rather see anyone but Peyton Hillis run the football.

dont care who. it could be the corpse of Kolby Smith out there for all I care

ChiefMojo
11-06-2012, 10:52 PM
I like Andy Reid as a coach but the man needs to remember there is such thing as running the ball. Like so many other offensive minded head coaches, he has become so tunnel vision with the pass he has neglected a important aspect of keeping defenses honest and wearing them down with the run.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:53 PM
I would rather see Cyrus get Draughn's reps. I'm biased though.

I cant say I disagree with you.

Everytime I saw Cyrus play, I couldn't get a certain player out of my mind.

I'm not gonna say his name.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:54 PM
i would rather see anyone but Peyton Hillis run the football.

dont care who. it could be the corpse of Kolby Smith out there for all I care

IMO they should have cut him to sign Smith...not Routt.

Hopefully, they let Brown play a lot more because he needs to playing time to help him develop.

I still think the kid has some real potential.

Simply Red
11-06-2012, 10:55 PM
i would rather see anyone but Peyton Hillis run the football.



do you think they use him correctly. Just wondering - or do you think he downright sucks?

chiefzilla1501
11-06-2012, 10:55 PM
i would rather see anyone but Peyton Hillis run the football.

dont care who. it could be the corpse of Kolby Smith out there for all I care

Peyton Hillis will be fine. A runner like him can't have 8-9 guys stacking a line and playing 15 yards and in.

Sorter
11-06-2012, 10:56 PM
I cant say I disagree with you.

Everytime I saw Cyrus play, I couldn't get a certain player out of my mind.

I'm not gonna say his name.

:)

chiefzilla1501
11-06-2012, 10:57 PM
Reid is definitely one of the best options out of all the turds we have to pick from when it comes to QB development

so when it comes down to it do I want a coach that hasnt coached in the NFL in 6 years (Cowher) and deal with another potential ego maniac that thinks he has a clue or just take a turd that currently has been in the NFL (Reid) but willing to delegate control (have a GM).

This is why you hire a defensive head coach and give an offensive coordinator free reign.

For example, hire a defensive coach then hire Norv as your offensive coordinator.

Sorter
11-06-2012, 10:57 PM
Peyton Hillis will be fine. A runner like him can't have 8-9 guys stacking a line and playing 15 yards and in.

Because people didn't do that in Cleveland because they were worried about Colt "Bret Favre arm strength" McCoy throwing down the field. LMAO

BossChief
11-06-2012, 10:58 PM
Peyton Hillis will be fine. A runner like him can't have 8-9 guys stacking a line and playing 15 yards and in.

Stop making excuses for the pussy.

He runs like LJ circa 2009.

Simply Red
11-06-2012, 11:01 PM
Stop making excuses for the pussy.

He runs like LJ circa 2009.

Milkman told me that all he needs is a crease, in the chat on game day, very next play he busted like 13yds. I really think they're shoveling to him too much. JM'GDMF'O though.

Guru
11-06-2012, 11:02 PM
no fucking retreads

chiefzilla1501
11-06-2012, 11:03 PM
Stop making excuses for the pussy.

He runs like LJ circa 2009.

I'm not making excuses. I'm pointing out reality. I'm watching defenses play 1-deep safety coverage, and defenses are literally not honoring ANYTHING beyond 15 yards. You have an interior runner and a wall of defenders. Even Jamaal Charles has been 50/50 behind this.

At this point, apart from the QB, it's hard to take much stock in how bad a lot of these players are. Because nobody is playing close to their potential, but that doesn't rule out that they could with a new regime.

Chief Roundup
11-06-2012, 11:06 PM
Mixed feelings about Andy Reid. He fits a lot of the things you want. But he has had a lot of opportunities. We certainly could do worse. He would give the Chiefs instant legitimacy at the position much like Vermeil did after that other run of horrible coaches.

chiefzilla1501
11-06-2012, 11:06 PM
Because people didn't do that in Cleveland because they were worried about Colt "Bret Favre arm strength" McCoy throwing down the field. LMAO

Actually, for as bad as the Browns' QBs were in 2010, they were generally throwing the ball for over 200 yards on a regular basis. They started to tighten up a lot in 2011 as they moved to Shurmur's offense and Shurmur put no trust in McCoy. Incidentally, that was the same time that Hillis started to shut down.

Hillis isn't a Bettis back that can destroy everyone in his path. He needs a little bit of a head of steam. That doesn't happen when the only thing open is a brick wall.

mcaj22
11-06-2012, 11:09 PM
only thing open is a brick wall? even with teams stacking the box we STILL HAVE ONE OF THE BEST OFFENSIVE LINES IN THE LEAGUE.

we have a top 10 LT and a top 5 RT. And the patchwork in the middle is even decent.

We arent some Eagles offensive line missing the best LT in game and their RT and has a bunch of other bums on it..

The fact of the matter is guys like Matt Cassel and Peyton Hillis are fools gold. Pats Tree bullshit Pioli and Daboll fools gold

Chief Roundup
11-06-2012, 11:12 PM
This is why you hire a defensive head coach and give an offensive coordinator free reign.

For example, hire a defensive coach then hire Norv as your offensive coordinator.

I would normally probably agree with this but with the probably of us drafting a 1st round QB and the need for that player to be successful we should probably get a coach that has had success with QB development. Once the QB is developed it doesn't matter nearly as much.

Sorter
11-06-2012, 11:13 PM
Actually, for as bad as the Browns' QBs were in 2010, they were generally throwing the ball for over 200 yards on a regular basis. They started to tighten up a lot in 2011 as they moved to Shurmur's offense and Shurmur put no trust in McCoy. Incidentally, that was the same time that Hillis started to shut down.

Hillis isn't a Bettis back that can destroy everyone in his path. He needs a little bit of a head of steam. That doesn't happen when the only thing open is a brick wall.

Totally agree

Rausch
11-06-2012, 11:13 PM
I would normally probably agree with this but with the probably of us drafting a 1st round QB and the need for that player to be successful we should probably get a coach that has had success with QB development. Once the QB is developed it doesn't matter nearly as much.

This...

smittysbar
11-06-2012, 11:25 PM
Yeah, Peters being hurt ruined that team. I don't think a traditional QB survives behind that line though right now. Vick is a tough SOB.
This

fire_egoli
11-06-2012, 11:28 PM
only thing open is a brick wall? even with teams stacking the box we STILL HAVE ONE OF THE BEST OFFENSIVE LINES IN THE LEAGUE.

we have a top 10 LT and a top 5 RT. And the patchwork in the middle is even decent.

We arent some Eagles offensive line missing the best LT in game and their RT and has a bunch of other bums on it..

The fact of the matter is guys like Matt Cassel and Peyton Hillis are fools gold. Pats Tree bullshit Pioli and Daboll fools gold

winston is a top 5 RT? he's got his ass kicked all year

Rausch
11-06-2012, 11:30 PM
winston is a top 5 RT? he's got his ass kicked all year

Lilja is also about as accurate with his snaps as Ca$$hole is his passes.

RunKC
11-06-2012, 11:31 PM
Andy Reid runs a great offense that is extremely QB friendly, plus the guy knows how to find talent. Nobody in this organization right now has a clue on how to develop a QB.

And to everyone saying he doesn't run the ball, look at what LeSean McCoy did last year and what his rush offense did the year before?

Put Reid with a good DC like Ron Rivera and we're in business.

Simply Red
11-06-2012, 11:34 PM
Andy Reid runs a great offense that is extremely QB friendly, plus the guy knows how to find talent. Nobody in this organization right now has a clue on how to develop a QB.

And to everyone saying he doesn't run the ball, look at what LeSean McCoy did last year and what his rush offense did the year before?

Put Reid with a good DC like Ron Rivera and we're in business.

Andy Reid hates the Chiefs and he hates you.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 11:42 PM
Thats my only problem with Reid.

I think he would want to hire his own DC and would try to switch and would back to a 4-3.
If Reid would be able to recognize that all this defense needs is an aggressive play caller that runs a 1 gap 3-4 base d, he could be a damn good hire.

I just dont see that happening.

New World Order
11-06-2012, 11:45 PM
I like Andy Reid as a coach but the man needs to remember there is such thing as running the ball. Like so many other offensive minded head coaches, he has become so tunnel vision with the pass he has neglected a important aspect of keeping defenses honest and wearing them down with the run.



Well I think Reid understands it is a passing league.

Priest31kc
11-06-2012, 11:49 PM
winston is a top 5 RT? he's got his ass kicked all year

Oh god, here's fire egoli's daily hate on the offensive line. Ya know, one of the best parts of this shit team. LEARN HOW TO WATCH FOOTBALLZ.

RunKC
11-06-2012, 11:49 PM
Thats my only problem with Reid.

I think he would want to hire his own DC and would try to switch and would back to a 4-3.
If Reid would be able to recognize that all this defense needs is an aggressive play caller that runs a 1 gap 3-4 base d, he could be a damn good hire.

I just dont see that happening.

What if he agrees to keep the 3-4 and brings in a DC like Ron Rivera?

After what has happened to his defense this year and him failing to find a DC, I don't think he will have any play on what to do with a defense on his next team.

BossChief
11-06-2012, 11:54 PM
What if he agrees to keep the 3-4 and brings in a DC like Ron Rivera?

After what has happened to his defense this year and him failing to find a DC, I don't think he will have any play on what to do with a defense on his next team.

Bullshit. Head coaches chose their coaching staffs (except in KC under Pioli)

If he would hire Rivera or Rex Ryan (if he gets fired in NY) Id FULLY back him as the HC except if Cowher were to want the job and a guy like Gailey or Norv could be brought in to be the OC.

I really think this team NEEDS a veteran coaching staff with solid leadership qualities that holds players accountable.

New World Order
11-06-2012, 11:56 PM
Bullshit. Head coaches chose their coaching staffs (except in KC under Pioli)

If he would hire Rivera or Rex Ryan (if he gets fired in NY) Id FULLY back him as the HC except if Cowher were to want the job and a guy like Gailey or Norv could be brought in to be the OC.

I really think this team NEEDS a veteran coaching staff with solid leadership qualities that holds players accountable.


We need structure and discipline before anything. Cowher is just the coach to put that in order.

Chief Roundup
11-06-2012, 11:57 PM
What if he agrees to keep the 3-4 and brings in a DC like Ron Rivera?

After what has happened to his defense this year and him failing to find a DC, I don't think he will have any play on what to do with a defense on his next team.

You don't hire someone to do a job and then immediately start telling them what to do. If you have to do that then you don't make the hire.

Rausch
11-06-2012, 11:57 PM
I really think this team NEEDS a veteran coaching staff with solid leadership qualities that holds players accountable.

This.

I don't mind promoting a NFL coordinator but I don't want to gamble on a college guy...

fire_egoli
11-06-2012, 11:57 PM
WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST STFU

Chief Roundup
11-06-2012, 11:59 PM
This.

I don't mind promoting a NFL coordinator but I don't want to gamble on a college guy...

Is it really a larger gamble that a college HC can make the transition to NFL HC than it is for a NFL coordinator that hasn't been a HC?

mcaj22
11-07-2012, 01:37 AM
winston is a top 5 RT? he's got his ass kicked all year

im pretty sure he is or was one of the few guys that grades out positive on PFF from this piece of shit team.

which is kind of amazing if you think about it, because there is a ton of garbage on this team. So for guys like Winston and Albert to grade out positively, you know they have some sort of talent at what they do.

BossChief
11-07-2012, 01:39 AM
Albert is the top rated OT in the NFL on PFF and Winston is #8. Clay posted the screen shot a day or two ago.

mcaj22
11-07-2012, 01:41 AM
yea so my original point stands then, Peyton Hills fucking sucks. You cant use some o-line defense that there is a brick wall when hes running behind the top rated OT and #8 RT in the NFL. No excuse, the guy is shit, fools gold, product of Dabolls piece of shit offense

BigChiefFan
11-07-2012, 02:42 AM
I mentioned him as a candidate the other night and some poo pooed it. We need some proven leadership and Reid, has a nice track record. My concern is Jim Johnson was the real coach from the Eagles and we get screwed by hiring Reid. I do find the idea, better than some.

theelusiveeightrop
11-07-2012, 06:55 AM
Andy needs a year off to mourn. He is distracted. Need a change of scenery no doubt, but the NFL is a passing league, and who cares if he can't run the ball. Neither can we. Omaha.

ChiefMojo
11-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Well things aren't going well for Andy. With that said I did like what they just said not long ago... The Eagles average 29 rushes a game this year. If Reid shows more balance, I like him better. Not #1 on my list but do sorta like Reid as a candidate in a new scenery.

Mr. Laz
11-11-2012, 06:07 PM
i don't know

he's probably another guy that would be better off one step lower than he is

ChiefMojo
11-11-2012, 06:09 PM
True but Reid has proven to be good for a long time. He just ran his time out at Philly. One gets to a point they need a change in scenery.

Mr. Laz
11-11-2012, 06:36 PM
Isn't Reid supposed to be a QB guy?


doesn't seem like he's very good at developing QB to me ... at least not as a HC.

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-11-2012, 06:36 PM
What a huge bag o' FAILdicks this thread and idea overall are.

Chocolate Hog
11-11-2012, 06:37 PM
The guy is obviously burnt out. No thanks.

Mr_Tomahawk
11-11-2012, 06:38 PM
Rather have Chip.







































And Tyler Wilson.:D

GloryDayz
11-11-2012, 06:39 PM
I say go get Jimmy Johnson.... As a HC he dressed-down Jerry Jones in front of the players. We could use that kind of leadership.

Marco Polo
11-11-2012, 06:39 PM
Chip, please.

RunKC
08-25-2013, 05:16 AM
Oh how I love this thread.

Suck a dick, BossChief!

BossChief
08-27-2013, 11:52 PM
Thats my only problem with Reid.

I think he would want to hire his own DC and would try to switch and would back to a 4-3.
If Reid would be able to recognize that all this defense needs is an aggressive play caller that runs a 1 gap 3-4 base d, he could be a damn good hire.

I just dont see that happening.

Just quoting this to show the bitches what I thought about Reid well before the hire.

Chief_For_Life58
08-28-2013, 12:00 AM
Just quoting this to show the bitches what I thought about Reid well before the hire.

k

Dixie Land
08-28-2013, 12:23 AM
Well at least Reed got Asmith worst bust ever and AJJunk worst first round ever he likes trash

el borracho
08-28-2013, 12:43 AM
Reid outside the 9ers stadium:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcLHmcCPcd1Gx4AusNUdqma0_Kwi0mmVpyJpD3rZwYHWMxqp-7

O.city
08-28-2013, 06:53 AM
Bullshit. Head coaches chose their coaching staffs (except in KC under Pioli)

If he would hire Rivera or Rex Ryan (if he gets fired in NY) Id FULLY back him as the HC except if Cowher were to want the job and a guy like Gailey or Norv could be brought in to be the OC.

I really think this team NEEDS a veteran coaching staff with solid leadership qualities that holds players accountable.

Done and done.

Yet your still pissed

Marcellus
08-28-2013, 07:12 AM
Just quoting this to show the bitches what I thought about Reid well before the hire.

Your issue was you thought he would switch back to a 4-3.


You were wrong.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 08:41 AM
Done and done.

Yet your still pissedTry to pay attention. You used to be quite good at that until you, admittedly, put the rose colored glasses back on.

I still LOVE the Reid hire...the moves I disagree with are:

1) trading so much for Alex Smith (I'm on record before the trade saying Id be ok with a MAX of a third rounder for him)

2) signing Dante Robinson

3) Drafting Eric Fisher at 1 when that move doesn't significantly upgrade the team like a top overall pick NEEDS to.

I'm fine with just about everything else they did.

Your issue was you thought he would switch back to a 4-3.


You were wrong.

Way to miss the point. As expected.

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:06 AM
Try to pay attention. You used to be quite good at that until you, admittedly, put the rose colored glasses back on.

I still LOVE the Reid hire...the moves I disagree with are:

1) trading so much for Alex Smith (I'm on record before the trade saying Id be ok with a MAX of a third rounder for him)

2) signing Dante Robinson

3) Drafting Eric Fisher at 1 when that move doesn't significantly upgrade the team like a top overall pick NEEDS to.

I'm fine with just about everything else they did.



Way to miss the point. As expected.

You can't determine that what we traded for a guy was too much before he plays a game. Even with that, we traded a second round pick for a starting qb better than any we could have drafted with said pick.

If its a second rounder next year, we went 8-8 or better which will likely show a few things. Andy Reid, the hire you love, runs an offense that has shown over and over to be one that doesn't allow a qb to hide behind a running game and defense.

It's ironic that all the elite or bust guys are furious with this move when, like djln said, we got the qb out of the draft who has the highest ceiling, and paired him with what everyone here at the time of the signing called a qb guru and passed in a guy who's upside at this point is the guy we just traded for.

Yeah, would have loved for there to have been Peyton manning sitting there at 1.1. But to say we drafted a guy who doesn't improve te team is a little off base when you in turn advocate that we should have taken a qb at 1.1 who wouldn't significantly upgrade the team either.

If you want to argue they should have taken someone else, I can get on board with that. I would have taken Richardson there, but I can see the upside if you will with taking fisher. Yes, I don't like the pick, but I can also look at te player an realize that he has the chance to be an elite player due to his skillet and probably is one of the players from the draft who's has the best chance to reach that level.

Count Alex's Losses
08-28-2013, 09:08 AM
You can't determine that what we traded for a guy was too much before he plays a game. Even with that, we traded a second round pick for a starting qb better than any we could have drafted with said pick.

This works both ways.

You can't determine that before Geno/EJ even play one season.

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:11 AM
This works both ways.

You can't determine that before Geno/EJ even play one season.

For their careers no. For this upcoming season? I think that's fairly obvious

Count Alex's Losses
08-28-2013, 09:13 AM
For their careers no. For this upcoming season? I think that's fairly obvious

That's honestly irrelevant and isn't going to result in a championship.

For Reid and Dorsey not to look dumb, the 5 years of Alex Smith we're getting has to result in a better shot at a championship than the entire careers of EJ and Geno.

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:17 AM
That's honestly irrelevant and isn't going to result in a championship.

For Reid and Dorsey not to look dumb, the 5 years of Alex Smith we're getting has to result in a better shot at a championship than the entire careers of EJ and Geno.

So there again you come back to the elite or bust talk. If either of those guys become elite, we ****ed up. If they become solid nfl starters? Nah.

But in reality, it seems we gt the best of both worlds, in that we got the best option to win this year, and the best prospect at qb from the entire draft class (sans the fact he might be a sociopath) in a guy who was considered a first round pick at one time.

And if we are "championship or bust" wouldn't you prefer Togo with the guy with the highest ceiling a the most important position?

Rausch
08-28-2013, 09:18 AM
That's honestly irrelevant and isn't going to result in a championship.

For Reid and Dorsey not to look dumb, the 5 years of Alex Smith we're getting has to result in a better shot at a championship than the entire careers of EJ and Geno.

Alex and all our free agents were not game changers - they were immediate upgrades possible due to unused cap.

Just like Smith isn't the long term answer at QB the same is also not the long term answer at CB.

It's an upgrade - we had the cap - we're one step better at that position...

Count Alex's Losses
08-28-2013, 09:23 AM
So there again you come back to the elite or bust talk. If either of those guys become elite, we ****ed up. If they become solid nfl starters? Nah.


If they are better than Alex we fucked up. We don't know how good Alex is going to be.

Jury is out. You cannot sit here and say "oh we didn't trade too much for Alex, wait and see" and then say "X rookie QB wasn't worth the pick." Double standard.

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:42 AM
If they are better than Alex we ****ed up. We don't know how good Alex is going to be.

Jury is out. You cannot sit here and say "oh we didn't trade too much for Alex, wait and see" and then say "X rookie QB wasn't worth the pick." Double standard.

So if they're better than Alex, but still not franchise qbs is it a mistake?

BossChief
08-28-2013, 10:02 AM
So if they're better than Alex, but still not franchise qbs is it a mistake?

Jeez. Listen to yourself

Rausch
08-28-2013, 10:05 AM
If they are better than Alex we ****ed up. We don't know how good Alex is going to be.

Yes, we do...

O.city
08-28-2013, 10:26 AM
Jeez. Listen to yourself

Same as the Alex smith better than bad doesn't equal good sentiment, just because those guys are better, doesn't make tem good enough. Maybe they will be, maybe they won't be.

But the qb guru head coach we wanted and the gm we all wanted thought they weren't or wouldn't be, so until we know one way or another I'm not gonna bitch about it.

Again, if we're elite or shit, Super Bowl or bust, I'd prefer them to go with the guy with the highest upside. They seem to have done that, so I'll sit back and let it play out.

Rausch
08-28-2013, 10:30 AM
Again, if we're elite or shit, Super Bowl or bust, I'd prefer them to go with the guy with the highest upside. They seem to have done that, so I'll sit back and let it play out.

They went with the best upgrade option out there.

He's not the guy with the best upside...

O.city
08-28-2013, 10:31 AM
They went with the best upgrade option out there.

He's not the guy with the best upside...

Talking about Bray.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 10:35 AM
For their careers no. For this upcoming season? I think that's fairly obvious

I think it's fairly obvious what we can expect from Axl. Middle of the road results overall.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 11:22 AM
Thinking that Brays upside is greater than Geno or EJs is baseless.

Both of those guys are accomplished passers and have a secondary weapon that Bray will NEVER have...legs.

Also, to say Geno or EJs upsides are that of Alex Smith is also baseless. EJ is far more athletic and is just as smart and has a better arm.

Geno has a better arm, more mobility and throws a beautiful deep ball (which Alex doesnt)...his problem is dealing with adversity.

It's fucking straight up silly that Alex Smith has taken on this god like figure with some of you. The guy is a below average starter that will need to play the best ball of his entire career to justify the compensation given up to get him.

And no, Alex isn't as good as any guy we could have gotten with the pick...if we traded from our second rounder and used next years second...that gets us up to the middle of the first round.

Just because guys wear a KC logo doesn't mean they automatically are gonna be better.

Most of the time, history shows it's the other way around

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 11:25 AM
Thinking that Brays upside is greater than Geno or EJs is baseless.

Both of those guys are accomplished passers and have a secondary weapon that Bray will NEVER have...legs.

Also, to say Geno or EJs upsides are that of Alex Smith is also baseless. EJ is far more athletic and is just as smart and has a better arm.

Geno has a better arm, more mobility and throws a beautiful deep ball (which Alex doesnt)...his problem is dealing with adversity.

It's fucking straight up silly that Alex Smith has taken on this god like figure with some of you. The guy is a below average starter that will need to play the best ball of his entire career to justify the compensation given up to get him.

And no, Alex isn't as good as any guy we could have gotten with the pick...if we traded from our second rounder and used next years second...that gets us up to the middle of the first round.

Just because guys wear a KC logo doesn't mean they automatically are gonna be better.

Most of the time, history shows it's the other way around

That'll leave a mark. LMAO

O.city
08-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Thinking that Brays upside is greater than Geno or EJs is baseless.

Both of those guys are accomplished passers and have a secondary weapon that Bray will NEVER have...legs.

Also, to say Geno or EJs upsides are that of Alex Smith is also baseless. EJ is far more athletic and is just as smart and has a better arm.

Geno has a better arm, more mobility and throws a beautiful deep ball (which Alex doesnt)...his problem is dealing with adversity.

It's ****ing straight up silly that Alex Smith has taken on this god like figure with some of you. The guy is a below average starter that will need to play the best ball of his entire career to justify the compensation given up to get him.

And no, Alex isn't as good as any guy we could have gotten with the pick...if we traded from our second rounder and used next years second...that gets us up to the middle of the first round.

Just because guys wear a KC logo doesn't mean they automatically are gonna be better.

Most of the time, history shows it's the other way around

Couple things.

I dot know which geno you watched, but he doesn't have a better arm and he doesn't throw a better deep ball. That's just blatantly wrong.

The second we move this year for smith, was essentially used on a qb better right now than any qb available. If its a second next year, he played well and likely had a lot to do with us winning more than 8 games. WS not hiding behind a run game here, look at the pre season games.

You need to move past the emotion of this whole thing. Geno isn't te prospect your building him up to be, he doesn't currently have the things you say he does. That's not to say he won't ever, but at this point he doesn't. At this point, his upside is Alex smith.

Further more, you haven't refuted anything I've said in this thread and you continue to look past anything relevant anyone says on the subject.

Rausch
08-28-2013, 11:56 AM
Thinking that Brays upside is greater than Geno or EJs is baseless.

I don't think Bray will ever amount to whatever EJ or Geno do.

If I could compare any college QB to Ryan Leaf it would be Bray.

His immaturity is not a question it's ****ing NOTORIOUS.

That said he's a natural. He's born to play the game but he's an insufferable prick. In combine interviews guys that played with him talked him down.

That said I'd draft Leaf in a heart beat if he was there in the 7th round...

Mr. Laz
08-28-2013, 12:00 PM
I don't think Bray will ever amount to whatever EJ or Geno do.

If I could compare any college QB to Ryan Leaf it would be Bray.

His immaturity is not a question it's ****ing NOTORIOUS.

That said he's a natural. He's born to play the game but he's an insufferable prick. In combine interviews guys that played with him talked him down.

That said I'd draft Leaf in a heart beat if he was there in the 7th round...
i am hoping that sitting on the bench for a year or 2 will crush that ego a bit and force him to grow up.

ChiefaRoo
08-28-2013, 12:03 PM
Alex Smith will = Trent Green during his good years. Lookit, he's more athletic and has a similar arm and playing style. Both guys play very smart. KC can win with this guy just like the Bucs did with Dilfer who had less upside that either Trent or Alex IMO.

What KC needs is to win (Tradition) and continue to fill out the team. Need another stud receiver for starters.

Even though KC is a young team the window is going to start closing on Tamba and DJ in the next two to three years.

I think Smith is a winner and is capable of hitting the 25 yard skinny post. I know he dinked and dunked in SF but I think he has athletic upside that he hasn't shown yet.

SNR
08-28-2013, 12:05 PM
O.city stopped giving a shit about this team because he's got a lot of real life responsibilities coming his way, but he interpreted that in his mind as going full homer for some reason.

Whatever, though. I can respect the guy's decisions.

SNR
08-28-2013, 12:06 PM
Also, five years ago I thought Reid would have succumbed to heart disease.

I WAS DEAD WRONG! PLEASE FORGIVE ME, MARCELLUS

Rausch
08-28-2013, 12:10 PM
i am hoping that sitting on the bench for a year or 2 will crush that ego a bit and force him to grow up.

Ditto...

O.city
08-28-2013, 12:11 PM
O.city stopped giving a shit about this team because he's got a lot of real life responsibilities coming his way, but he interpreted that in his mind as going full homer for some reason.

Whatever, though. I can respect the guy's decisions.

Pretty much. Sorry if it comes across as assholish to anyone, I just got to the point that if they give me good football to watch on Sundays and beat some good teams, I'm fine with that. I've got the cardinals and the jayhawks to fulfil my championship needs I guess.

I also realized that te chiefs are one o the worst franchises in sports and if they ha e a couple year stretch here where they relive the 90's I'll enjoy it.

Life's too short to bitch an moan about stuff I can't control and I like the front office as coaches we brought in. I'll sit back, enjoy life and let it happen

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Couple things.

I dot know which geno you watched, but he doesn't have a better arm and he doesn't throw a better deep ball. That's just blatantly wrong.

That's not to say he won't ever, but at this point he doesn't. At this point, his upside is Alex smith.



Uhhhh..............no. Sorry. Just.....no.

milkman
08-28-2013, 01:35 PM
You can't determine that what we traded for a guy was too much before he plays a game.

That is straight up bullshit.
An NFL veteran has established his value, and Alex Smith was in no way worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

If I go to buy a used car and pay used Mercedes price for a used Toyota just because someone else wanted that same used Toyota, I fucked myself.

No matter how you spin it, the cost can not be justified.

I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no fucky near the price paid.

SNR
08-28-2013, 01:43 PM
Pretty much. Sorry if it comes across as assholish to anyone, I just got to the point that if they give me good football to watch on Sundays and beat some good teams, I'm fine with that. I've got the cardinals and the jayhawks to fulfil my championship needs I guess.

I also realized that te chiefs are one o the worst franchises in sports and if they ha e a couple year stretch here where they relive the 90's I'll enjoy it.

Life's too short to bitch an moan about stuff I can't control and I like the front office as coaches we brought in. I'll sit back, enjoy life and let it happen

You haven't been an asshole at all. Being a Chiefs fan makes the soul tired and old. You're just doing what you can do.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 01:46 PM
Exactly, Milk.

Before last season, Alex Smith was an unrestricted free agent and had little to no interest as a starter elsewhere...then, he gets benched for a superior player (that was drafted in the second round, to define irony) last year and KC give up a second and third round pick (minimum) for hom and some just guzzle the Koolaid.

The most puzzling part?

Adam Schefter went on tv right after the trade and said no other team was willing to give up a second pick...but we give up 2 PREMIUM picks.

Oh well, I guess.

SNR
08-28-2013, 01:48 PM
That is straight up bullshit.
An NFL veteran has established his value, and Alex Smith was in no way worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

If I go to buy a used car and pay used Mercedes price for a used Toyota just because someone else wanted that same used Toyota, I fucked myself.

No matter how you spin it, the cost can not be justified.

I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no fucky near the price paid.

I think people in general (not just on Chiefs Planet) don't understand the concept of "at the time."

It's like the Dontari Poe pick. The dude appears to be doing very well for himself, and *knock on wood* he'll turn into something REALLY special for us on the defensive line.

That doesn't justify the pick we made for him at the time, when we were getting a guy with no college production at freakin' Memphis, and who couldn't get upfield pressure one-on-one against a guard from Arkansas State all game.

Likewise, Tyson Jackson gets talked about as, "At least we didn't pick Aaron Curry or one of those other epic busts in the top 10." No, hindsight can't polish a turd, and it DEFINITELY can't justify spending the 3rd overall on a 5-tech when we had so many other needs.

Eric Fisher... yeah, not even gonna go there.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 01:49 PM
You haven't been an asshole at all. Being a Chiefs fan makes the soul tired and old. You're just doing what you can do.

And this.

It reminds me in ways of a wife that knows their husband is cheating on them, but ignores it so she can keep a smile on her face.

the Talking Can
08-28-2013, 01:51 PM
alex smith makes chris matthews look like rod marinelli

Rausch
08-28-2013, 01:52 PM
I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no ****y near the price paid.

If he goes on to win the next 10 SB's I'd trade every 1st round pick for 12 years.

You kidding me?

If an angel of God came down from heaven today and told me we could win a SB if I punched my mother in the face that bitch would be dead yesterdsay...

BossChief
08-28-2013, 01:53 PM
I think people in general (not just on Chiefs Planet) don't understand the concept of "at the time."

It's like the Dontari Poe pick. The dude appears to be doing very well for himself, and *knock on wood* he'll turn into something REALLY special for us on the defensive line.

That doesn't justify the pick we made for him at the time, when we were getting a guy with no college production at freakin' Memphis, and who couldn't get upfield pressure one-on-one against a guard from Arkansas State all game.

Likewise, Tyson Jackson gets talked about as, "At least we didn't pick Aaron Curry or one of those other epic busts in the top 10." No, hindsight can't polish a turd, and it DEFINITELY can't justify spending the 3rd overall on a 5-tech when we had so many other needs.

Eric Fisher... yeah, not even gonna go there.

Exactly.

Is going from Cassel, Winston and Albert to Smith and Fisher worth the first overall pick and 2 second round pislcks (one being the second pick in the second round?)

I don't think so and would love to be wrong.

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 01:56 PM
That is straight up bullshit.
An NFL veteran has established his value, and Alex Smith was in no way worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

If I go to buy a used car and pay used Mercedes price for a used Toyota just because someone else wanted that same used Toyota, I ****ed myself.

No matter how you spin it, the cost can not be justified.

I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no ****y near the price paid.
Poor analogy. The better comparison is the price you pay for a race horse, not a car.

And if your point about paying too much for Smith is true, the same could be said for what the redskins gave up for RGIII.

SNR
08-28-2013, 01:58 PM
Poor analogy. The better comparison is the price you pay for a race horse, not a car.

And if your point about paying too much for Smith is true, the same could be said for what the redskins gave up for RGIII.

I don't know anything about horse racing because I was born in the 20th Century.

I think milkman falls into the same category.

Sorter
08-28-2013, 02:00 PM
I don't know anything about horse racing because I was born in the 20th Century.

I think milkman falls into the same category.

ROFL

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 02:06 PM
I don't know anything about horse racing because I was born in the 20th Century.

I think milkman falls into the same category.

You don't gamble on a car. You might overpay for a car but you can always make it perform to expectations.

The NFL is much closer to horse racing. You are gambling on every horse in the stable and whether or not a transaction is successful is based on the return, not the cost.

milkman
08-28-2013, 02:07 PM
Poor analogy. The better comparison is the price you pay for a race horse, not a car.

And if your point about paying too much for Smith is true, the same could be said for what the redskins gave up for RGIII.

Value for veteran players is based on previous NFL production.
Value for draft picks is based on potential.

SNR
08-28-2013, 02:10 PM
You don't gamble on a car. You might overpay for a car but you can always make it perform to expectations.

The NFL is much closer to horse racing. You are gambling on every horse in the stable and whether or not a transaction is successful is based on the return, not the cost.

If Andrew Luck mysteriously busts out of the league for some reason, did the Colts make the wrong pick?

No, they still did the right thing at the time. Hindsight only gets you so far.

O.city
08-28-2013, 02:11 PM
That is straight up bullshit.
An NFL veteran has established his value, and Alex Smith was in no way worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

If I go to buy a used car and pay used Mercedes price for a used Toyota just because someone else wanted that same used Toyota, I ****ed myself.

No matter how you spin it, the cost can not be justified.

I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no ****y near the price paid.

I think that's a poor analogy, but i get your point.

However, like a draft pick I don't think you can judge a trade at the time of the trade. You can easier because you know what a guy has been to that point, but you don't know what he'll be in a different system for sure.

Value also depends on what the buyer sets it as, to a degree

milkman
08-28-2013, 02:13 PM
You don't gamble on a car. You might overpay for a car but you can always make it perform to expectations.

The NFL is much closer to horse racing. You are gambling on every horse in the stable and whether or not a transaction is successful is based on the return, not the cost.

I don't know anything about horse racing, but you wouldn't pay premium price for an established horse that has a mediocre record, would you?

On the flip side, you would probably have paid premium price for the pick of any horse of the Seattle Slew litter.

O.city
08-28-2013, 02:14 PM
Value for veteran players is based on previous NFL production.
Value for draft picks is based on potential.

Respectfully I don't agree. It's te same as free agent contracts. If your paying for past production, your doing it wrong.

Same as I don't think Reid a Dorsey paid what they paid for Alex smiths past production, but for what e can bring.

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 02:15 PM
Value for veteran players is based on previous NFL production.
Value for draft picks is based on potential.

Value of a vet also is based partially on potential. Production and potential are what you gamble on.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match about it, I just don't think you can judge the transaction until you see the results.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 02:22 PM
Let's start a horse-racing crew. Who here is short enough to ride? Anyone care to guess what the name of our first stallion will be?:D

milkman
08-28-2013, 02:29 PM
Let's start a horse-racing crew. Who here is short enough to ride? Anyone care to guess what the name of our first stallion will be?:D

I'll be short enough in a couple of years.

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't know anything about horse racing, but you wouldn't pay premium price for an established horse that has a mediocre record, would you?

On the flip side, you would probably have paid premium price for the pick of any horse of the Seattle Slew litter.

You're gambling on the return. You don't know if it was a good gamble until you see the return. I get you think Reid overpaid and you're quite possibly right.

milkman
08-28-2013, 02:39 PM
Value of a vet also is based partially on potential. Production and potential are what you gamble on.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match about it, I just don't think you can judge the transaction until you see the results.

Yes, some weight has to be given to potential, but most weight, by far, has to be previous production.

And Smith's previous production, even with consideration of potential within your system, in no way matches the cost.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 02:40 PM
I'll be short enough in a couple of years.

LMAO Drink more milk.

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 02:47 PM
Yes, some weight has to be given to potential, but most weight, by far, has to be previous production.

And Smith's previous production, even with consideration of potential within your system, in no way matches the cost.

Fair enough, you don't see eye to eye with Reid on potential.

I'm curious to know if you think the redskins paid too much for rgiii.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 02:48 PM
Fair enough, you don't see eye to eye with Reid on potential.

I'm curious to know if you think the redskins paid too much for rgiii.

FUCK no.

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 02:57 PM
**** no.

I'd love to get together and play poker sometime.

milkman
08-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Fair enough, you don't see eye to eye with Reid on potential.

I'm curious to know if you think the redskins paid too much for rgiii.

I am not as high on RGIII as most here.

From a pure talent perspective, he has an unlimited ceiling, which is well worth the price.

However, I do question his long term durability, and because of that, I would not have paid that price.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-28-2013, 03:01 PM
I'd love to get together and play poker sometime.

I will take you:

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/Film/Highlander_There_Can_Be_Only_One.jpg

mlyonsd
08-28-2013, 03:38 PM
I am not as high on RGIII as most here.

From a pure talent perspective, he has an unlimited ceiling, which is well worth the price.

However, I do question his long term durability, and because of that, I would not have paid that price.
I can appreciate the consistency.

Rausch
08-28-2013, 03:48 PM
I will take you:

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/Film/Highlander_There_Can_Be_Only_One.jpg

You continue to defile all my geek loves...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/05/47570b068fly-one.jpg.jpg

RunKC
08-28-2013, 06:26 PM
If we have a shot to draft a legit QB prospect in the first round from here on out, then I think we should do it, but there is no question that Alex Smith was the best possible QB to get for now.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 07:11 PM
If we have a shot to draft a legit QB prospect in the first round from here on out, then I think we should do it, but there is no question that Alex Smith was the best possible QB to get for now.

No quarterback will EVER be good enough for true fans like yourself, but we can draft hundreds of linemen busts and you guys have an endless slew of excuses for them and always go back and are like "but we should have drafted quarterback x, that wasn't good enough at the time.

This is how it's always been and how it will always be.

SNR
08-28-2013, 08:26 PM
RunKC, I'm curious. What were your thoughts on trading up in 2012 to go get Ryan Tannehill ahead of the Dolphins?

BossChief
08-28-2013, 08:57 PM
He hated Tanehill a d actually wanted us to draft Tyler Wilson until the possibility was real and then he began to back off.

Like I said, no QB will ever be good enough for some of these guys.

Those guys are ok if a linemen busts (like every one we ever drafted except for Albert, who he is ok with us letting walk after this year)...but the team should probably never draft a quarterback because.....well....

RunKC
08-28-2013, 09:28 PM
No quarterback will EVER be good enough for true fans like yourself, but we can draft hundreds of linemen busts and you guys have an endless slew of excuses for them and always go back and are like "but we should have drafted quarterback x, that wasn't good enough at the time.

This is how it's always been and how it will always be.

You try so hard to be Clay and it's so funny. Except you're an idiot.

Still think Fisher was a project but Ansah should've been drafted? :LOL:

RunKC
08-28-2013, 09:29 PM
RunKC, I'm curious. What were your thoughts on trading up in 2012 to go get Ryan Tannehill ahead of the Dolphins?

I thought his wife had more upside

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't have traded up for tannehill, if I'm trading up its for the elite prospect (rgIII).

Would have given up however many picks fr him.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 09:33 PM
You try so hard to be Clay and it's so funny. Except you're an idiot.

Still think Fisher was a project but Ansah should've been drafted? :LOL:

:facepalm:

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2013, 09:39 PM
I think people in general (not just on Chiefs Planet) don't understand the concept of "at the time."

It's like the Dontari Poe pick. The dude appears to be doing very well for himself, and *knock on wood* he'll turn into something REALLY special for us on the defensive line.

That doesn't justify the pick we made for him at the time, when we were getting a guy with no college production at freakin' Memphis, and who couldn't get upfield pressure one-on-one against a guard from Arkansas State all game.

Likewise, Tyson Jackson gets talked about as, "At least we didn't pick Aaron Curry or one of those other epic busts in the top 10." No, hindsight can't polish a turd, and it DEFINITELY can't justify spending the 3rd overall on a 5-tech when we had so many other needs.

Eric Fisher... yeah, not even gonna go there.

You can rag on the picks all you want.

Ragging on Dontari Poe because he didn't produce in college is downright stupid. Of all the picks we've made the past umpteen years, that's one pick we got right, even if he busted.

Fat Elvis
08-28-2013, 09:42 PM
You try so hard to be Clay and it's so funny. Except you're an idiot.

Still think Fisher was a project but Ansah should've been drafted? :LOL:

I would of been OK with Ansah....

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:43 PM
In regards to picks, what does it matter if the pick is justified at the time? If he produces and becomes a good player, what does that matter?

BossChief
08-28-2013, 09:54 PM
In regards to picks, what does it matter if the pick is justified at the time? If he produces and becomes a good player, what does that matter?

It's all about risk to reward. Blue chip guys rarely bust where unknown quantities bust far more often.

O.city
08-28-2013, 09:57 PM
It's all about risk to reward. Blue chip guys rarely bust where unknown quantities bust far more often.

Obviously that's a given.

But like I said, if a guy turns out to be a great player, it shouldn't matter what he was or wasn't when he was picked.

Like Poe. He was a project there, but if he turns into a force up front, does it matter that he was a reach 2 years ago?

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2013, 10:07 PM
Obviously that's a given.

But like I said, if a guy turns out to be a great player, it shouldn't matter what he was or wasn't when he was picked.

Like Poe. He was a project there, but if he turns into a force up front, does it matter that he was a reach 2 years ago?

That's what confused me.

Berry and Jackson and Fisher were conservative picks. Poe was a gamble, and that's why I loved the pick. I think it's hypocritical for people to knock the Poe pick, then question why the Chiefs didn't pick Geno Smith.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 10:21 PM
Even if Poe reaches his potential, DTs only impact 5% of a football game...if Tanehill reaches his upside, he will impact 75% of every game he plays.

I'd be very excited if we had a Tanehill/Reid combo right now.

Chocolate Hog
08-28-2013, 10:39 PM
Even if Poe reaches his potential, DTs only impact 5% of a football game...if Tanehill reaches his upside, he will impact 75% of every game he plays.

I'd be very excited if we had a Tanehill/Reid combo right now.

You and I were in the minority of wanting to draft the kid.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 10:58 PM
Let's say we had traded up To 6 and given up the same compensation to do so as Dallas did (even though we owned slot 11 and Dallas owned slot 14....meaning we would have probably had to give up LESS to move up)

Who here wouldn't trade Dontari Poe and Jeff Allen for Ryan Tanehill?

Id make that trade in a New York minute.

BossChief
08-28-2013, 10:59 PM
But yeah, he wasn't good enough.

MotherfuckerJones
08-28-2013, 11:28 PM
I wanted Tannehil bad. Knew he'd go to Miami though.

SNR
08-28-2013, 11:54 PM
Let's say we had traded up To 6 and given up the same compensation to do so as Dallas did (even though we owned slot 11 and Dallas owned slot 14....meaning we would have probably had to give up LESS to move up)

Who here wouldn't trade Dontari Poe and Jeff Allen for Ryan Tanehill?

Id make that trade in a New York minute.

NOW they would, but back then it was too much.

Just like Pioli wanted a do-over for not drafting Dalton... AFTER Dalton leads the Bengals to the playoffs his first two years in the league and Pioli is facing losing his job to the angry KC mob.

ChiefGator
08-29-2013, 03:49 AM
I wanted Tannehil bad. Knew he'd go to Miami though.

Yep exactly. I was still pissed when they drafted him though.

O.city
08-29-2013, 07:02 AM
Even if Poe reaches his potential, DTs only impact 5% of a football game...if Tanehill reaches his upside, he will impact 75% of every game he plays.

I'd be very excited if we had a Tanehill/Reid combo right now.

5%? That's not right. A dominant defensive tackle can control much more than that. Obviously a qb would be more, but a dominant pass rusher from the defensive tackle position is pretty awesome and important.

I wasn't as high on tannehill simple because I didn't watch a whole lot of him, I just didn't know much about him.

chiefzilla1501
08-29-2013, 07:05 AM
Even if Poe reaches his potential, DTs only impact 5% of a football game...if Tanehill reaches his upside, he will impact 75% of every game he plays.

I'd be very excited if we had a Tanehill/Reid combo right now.

That's a ridiculous comment. Nose Tackles are the heart of any 3-4 defense and we've said that a million times. And Poe isn't even a traditional Nose Tackle. He's a Nose Tackle with potential to one day play multiple techniques, which is crucial in the modern 3-4. If he becomes a great Nose Tackle, this pick is an absolute steal and you know it.

We all know QB is important, but let's not start this tirade against any pick that isn't a QB. Yeah, drafting offensive linemen, 5-techs, safeties, and running backs are safe picks at 1.1. Drafting a raw talent like Poe is exactly the kind of boom/bust pick we should ahve been making more of. I think it's silly to be critical of the pick, especially if the negative commentary was that he shouldn't have been picked because he was raw.

chiefzilla1501
08-29-2013, 07:11 AM
5%? That's not right. A dominant defensive tackle can control much more than that. Obviously a qb would be more, but a dominant pass rusher from the defensive tackle position is pretty awesome and important.

I wasn't as high on tannehill simple because I didn't watch a whole lot of him, I just didn't know much about him.

A little premature for people to get hyped up about Tannehill. He had a 12/13 TD/INT ratio last year. What I saw is a guy with good not elite arm strength. Good but not even close to elite athleticism. And a guy with really small hands, which is going to be a problem in cold weather and messy conditions.

I'm not as sold on Tannehill as others. I think he has upside to be a middle-of-the-road QB at best. I guess that's an upgrade, but I don't think he has franchise QB written all over him.

Sandy Cheeks
08-29-2013, 08:11 AM
A little premature for people to get hyped up about Tannehill. He had a 12/13 TD/INT ratio last year. What I saw is a guy with good not elite arm strength. Good but not even close to elite athleticism. And a guy with really small hands, which is going to be a problem in cold weather and messy conditions.

I'm not as sold on Tannehill as others. I think he has upside to be a middle-of-the-road QB at best. I guess that's an upgrade, but I don't think he has franchise QB written all over him.

Was thinking this as well. There were some games and moments when I felt this guy can develop into a good one. Other times, he looked like a mess. 58 completion %... 5 games last season at a 50 or less passer rating.. 9 games under a 75... 25 years old already..

eh...

O.city
08-29-2013, 08:23 AM
A little premature for people to get hyped up about Tannehill. He had a 12/13 TD/INT ratio last year. What I saw is a guy with good not elite arm strength. Good but not even close to elite athleticism. And a guy with really small hands, which is going to be a problem in cold weather and messy conditions.

I'm not as sold on Tannehill as others. I think he has upside to be a middle-of-the-road QB at best. I guess that's an upgrade, but I don't think he has franchise QB written all over him.

Like I said, I don't know much about the guy other than the few games at a&m I watched. I knew we wouldn't take him so I didn't really get too invested there, so I won't comment one way I another.

I think tannehill, from the little I did see, would be balls awesome in shanny's system.

It's Stephenson over Wilson tht stings the most.

BossChief
08-29-2013, 08:31 AM
Like I said, I don't know much about the guy other than the few games at a&m I watched. I knew we wouldn't take him so I didn't really get too invested there, so I won't comment one way I another.

I think tannehill, from the little I did see, would be balls awesome in shanny's system.

It's Stephenson over Wilson tht stings the most.

Not good enough. Too short.

O.city
08-29-2013, 08:33 AM
Not good enough. Too short.

Seriously, get help.

BossChief
08-29-2013, 08:41 AM
That's a ridiculous comment. Nose Tackles are the heart of any 3-4 defense and we've said that a million times. And Poe isn't even a traditional Nose Tackle. He's a Nose Tackle with potential to one day play multiple techniques, which is crucial in the modern 3-4. If he becomes a great Nose Tackle, this pick is an absolute steal and you know it.

We all know QB is important, but let's not start this tirade against any pick that isn't a QB. Yeah, drafting offensive linemen, 5-techs, safeties, and running backs are safe picks at 1.1. Drafting a raw talent like Poe is exactly the kind of boom/bust pick we should ahve been making more of. I think it's silly to be critical of the pick, especially if the negative commentary was that he shouldn't have been picked because he was raw.
Even the most impactful pass rushers don't change the outcome of more than 1 in 10 plays. I'm talking stops, sacks, QB hits, etc.Let's not act as if Poe is gonna be JJ Watt here. The 5% number is far more reasonable than you realize.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's push that number to 10% so you can sleep better at night...that amount of impact pales in comparison to the impact a young quarterback gives you if you hit on the pick.

Tanehill ran the second fastest operating offense in football (NE was first) as a rookie and oozed composure and accuracy while cementing himself as the unquestioned leader of his team.

If you wouldn't trade Poe and Allen for him, you need to stop drinking kool aid.

O.city
08-29-2013, 08:46 AM
Oozed composure an accuracy? With a 12/13 td:int ratio?

O.city
08-29-2013, 08:47 AM
So now because someone doesn't like EVERY qb prospect coming out, they're an idiot?

BossChief
08-29-2013, 08:49 AM
Seriously, get help.

Hey, I already bought tickets to a couple games and am looking forward to a watchable year of football for the first time in awhile...I just think we keep passing on opportunities to significantly impact the team and give them a chance at what should be every teams ultimate goal.

Having a 10+ year window by drafting a quarterback high in the draft that gives you a chance every year.

Sorry that you disagree.

MotherfuckerJones
08-29-2013, 08:49 AM
Not good enough. Too short.

You're fucking crazy if you're serious. Wilson is a beast

chiefzilla1501
08-29-2013, 08:50 AM
Even the most impactful pass rushers don't change the outcome of more than 1 in 10 plays. I'm talking stops, sacks, QB hits, etc.Let's not act as if Poe is gonna be JJ Watt here. The 5% number is far more reasonable than you realize.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's push that number to 10% so you can sleep better at night...that amount of impact pales in comparison to the impact a young quarterback gives you if you hit on the pick.

Tanehill ran the second fastest operating offense in football (NE was first) as a rookie and oozed composure and accuracy while cementing himself as the unquestioned leader of his team.

If you wouldn't trade Poe and Allen for him, you need to stop drinking kool aid.

We get it. Qbs are impact players. I'm not a fan of the Tannehill pick but I would have been okay with it. Ultimately, I think you have a QB with matt Ryan upside. You could do a lot worse, but you could do a lot better.

But look... This idea of ragging on every pick that isn't a QB is ludicrous. Rag on safe picks like fisher, berry, or Tyson Jackson. Don't rag on guys like Poe who has the potential to be a very good, bona fide top 10 pick.

O.city
08-29-2013, 09:01 AM
Hey, I already bought tickets to a couple games and am looking forward to a watchable year of football for the first time in awhile...I just think we keep passing on opportunities to significantly impact the team and give them a chance at what should be every teams ultimate goal.

Having a 10+ year window by drafting a quarterback high in the draft that gives you a chance every year.

Sorry that you disagree.

First off, I was kidding.

Secondly, please link me to a post where I disagreed with that? I fully agree with that statement, but I also realize that there wasn't a qb necessarily worth that high pick this year, which yes is debatable.

I don't necessarily agree that the drafted qb has to come from high in the draft, it just has to be the right qb. Don't care where he comes from.

You keep coming up with these false arguments just to argue.

BossChief
08-29-2013, 09:28 AM
I got work to do. I'll follow up later.

Let's not try so hard to create strawmen though.

SNR
08-29-2013, 09:47 AM
Alex Smith sucks.

Eric Fisher sucks.

Terrence Copper rules.

Dave Lane
08-29-2013, 09:52 AM
Let's say we had traded up To 6 and given up the same compensation to do so as Dallas did (even though we owned slot 11 and Dallas owned slot 14....meaning we would have probably had to give up LESS to move up)

Who here wouldn't trade Dontari Poe and Jeff Allen for Ryan Tanehill?

Id make that trade in a New York minute.

How about just Poe and Wilson?

O.city
08-29-2013, 10:15 AM
I got work to do. I'll follow up later.

Let's not try so hard to create strawmen though.

So you telling me I'm an true fan drinking the kool aid because I don't agree that passing on geno smith at 1.1 an trading fr Alex smith and picking up Tyler bray is an horrendous mistake that will haunt the franchise for years.

That the straw man your talking about?

Just because I'm not all up in arms about our qb situation and not pissed at every qb we passed on doesn't mean I don't want this franchise to heavily invest in the qb position.

BossChief
08-29-2013, 10:40 AM
I didn't say any of that JFC.

BossChief
08-29-2013, 10:53 AM
If there weren't any quarterbacks they liked, fine. No problem. I don't agree with that opinion, but I can at least understand it.

But at least find a way to significantly upgrade the team with the top pick in the draft.

Jettisoning Branden Albert and Eric Winston to make room for Eric Fisher is completely wasting that pick, though because the difference between Albert and Fisher isn't the wide chasm that a first overall pick should be helping fill.

Austin would have made this offense extremely hard to defend on offense and special teams.

Richardson would have given us multiple bulls on the DL.

Ansah, Jordan or Mingo would have given our pass rush a big time boost in sub packages and given us options when Hali hangs em up as he is already getting up there in age.

Vaccaro would have made a lot of sense....especially if we took the Dolphins trade offer that was given to Oakland and added another second rounder.

Staying at 1 and drafting Fisher was a mistake, quarterback or no quarterback.

Frosty
08-29-2013, 10:58 AM
Alex Smith sucks.

Eric Fisher sucks.

Terrence Copper rules.


Herb Taylor - Forgotten too soon

O.city
08-29-2013, 11:30 AM
I didn't say any of that JFC.

Then what the hell are we talking about?


I've never advocated for fisher being the pick. I guess I was just confused as to what we were arguing about

Packfan12
08-29-2013, 12:04 PM
I hope Reid can get you guys to the playoffs.

chiefzilla1501
08-29-2013, 12:16 PM
If there weren't any quarterbacks they liked, fine. No problem. I don't agree with that opinion, but I can at least understand it.

But at least find a way to significantly upgrade the team with the top pick in the draft.

Jettisoning Branden Albert and Eric Winston to make room for Eric Fisher is completely wasting that pick, though because the difference between Albert and Fisher isn't the wide chasm that a first overall pick should be helping fill.

Austin would have made this offense extremely hard to defend on offense and special teams.

Richardson would have given us multiple bulls on the DL.

Ansah, Jordan or Mingo would have given our pass rush a big time boost in sub packages and given us options when Hali hangs em up as he is already getting up there in age.

Vaccaro would have made a lot of sense....especially if we took the Dolphins trade offer that was given to Oakland and added another second rounder.

Staying at 1 and drafting Fisher was a mistake, quarterback or no quarterback.

I don't think anyone us arguing that. I just think it's silly to get riled up about picks that were well slotted, ad Poe was.

Easy 6
08-29-2013, 12:18 PM
Herb Taylor - Forgotten too soon

RIP, Herb.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-29-2013, 04:06 PM
Alex Smith sucks.

Eric Fisher sucks.

Terrence Copper rules.

That's the spirit!