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View Full Version : Economics How will Obama make the country worse in 4 years?


Count Zarth
11-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Just wondering since everyone seems to think the world is ending now that he is Prez again.

Direckshun
11-07-2012, 11:15 PM
Leadership... something. I don't know.

lostcause
11-07-2012, 11:15 PM
Just wondering since everyone seems to think the world is ending now that he is Prez again.

#1: Fox News will continue to be insanely profitable.

nstygma
11-07-2012, 11:17 PM
some people think he'll keep spending at crazy rates with an outcome similar to what's going on in Greece and elsewhere. that's one fear i read about occasionally

cosmo20002
11-07-2012, 11:19 PM
How will Obama make the country worse in 4 years?

Your measure of 4 years will become obsolete when he cancels the 2016 election.

LiveSteam
11-07-2012, 11:20 PM
Depends on what kind of moral fiber you have. If you are a lazy fuck. Then things should get better for you.

If you are someone like me. Very small business owner. you are screwed, scarred & just fucking sick of it! OSHA & EPA breathing down my god dam neck. I swear to fucking god the EPA guy shows up again on my job site bitching about my masonry mixer. Im going to start it & stuff his ass into it.
True story

lostcause
11-07-2012, 11:21 PM
Your measure of 4 years will become obsolete when he cancels the 2016 election.

komrade, why would we want an election?

nstygma
11-07-2012, 11:23 PM
komrade, why would we want an election?
its the greatest quadrennial reality series in history!!

Count Zarth
11-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Depends on what kind of moral fiber you have. If you are a lazy fuck. Then things should get better for you.

If you are someone like me. Very small business owner. you are screwed, scarred & just fucking sick of it! OSHA & EPA breathing down my god dam neck. I swear to fucking god the EPA guy shows up again on my job site bitching about my masonry mixer. Im going to start it & stuff his ass into it.
True story

I realize Obama is fucking small businesses and people who make 200 grand or more a year.

What about the middle class?

Buehler445
11-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Depends on what kind of moral fiber you have. If you are a lazy fuck. Then things should get better for you.

If you are someone like me. Very small business owner. you are screwed, scarred & just fucking sick of it! OSHA & EPA breathing down my god dam neck. I swear to fucking god the EPA guy shows up again on my job site bitching about my masonry mixer. Im going to start it & stuff his ass into it.
True story

I'd love to throw damn near every EPA fuckbag into a vat of anhydrous ammonia.

I realize Obama is fucking small businesses and people who make 200 grand or more a year.

What about the middle class?

My guess is taxes are going to be significantly higher to pay for spending and entitlement programs.

Health insurance and health care will become dramatically more expensive.

Due to regulation and taxation, the job market will continue to struggle.

Those things are the most certain. There are other ancillary risks with terrorist attacks, Iran/Isreal/ The whole Fucking Middle East with reductions, but not imporovements with efficiency in military operations. Also some lower probability risks with the overall economy/stagflation/inflation stuff. We'll have to see about all that. But taxes, Health insurance and health care, and the job market are fairly cut and dry.

Buehler445
11-07-2012, 11:37 PM
I realize Obama is fucking small businesses and people who make 200 grand or more a year.

What about the middle class?

Oh, and 200 grand IS middle class in most parts of the coast.

ChiefsCountry
11-07-2012, 11:39 PM
FERC is another one that can go fuck themselves.

jaa1025
11-08-2012, 03:59 AM
Assault weapons ban. Possibly more thru UN agreements.
Global Internet taxation through the UN.
Global taxation on wealthy through the UN.
Global Warming Taxation through the UN.

Higher cost of medical. I'm already seeing it phased in at work.
Quality of healthcare will go down the shitter.
Massive increase on taxes across the board due to bush tax cuts expiring and higher cost for supporting the entitled lazy people among other things including the obamacare tax.
Decrease in military.
Double dip in the recession is starting post election.
More jobs will move out of the US or close down due to excessive taxation.

But 30+ yo professional students will get free condoms damnit. Illegals will get free healthcare and amnesty damnit. And you can live off the government and not get a job and do about as well as someone that busts his ass 50 hours a week to support his family damnit.

This country should be embarrassed. I have no clue on why any working man or woman would vote for Obama. I have no clue on why anyone with children would vote for him.

The republicans will never win another election due to their beliefs on what made this country great. Their beliefs on building through hard work. Their beliefs on securing our boarders. The majority of the country feels entitled to free things and people won't ever give that up.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-08-2012, 04:17 AM
Your measure of 4 years will become obsolete when he cancels the 2016 election.

ROFL

greg63
11-08-2012, 04:39 AM
20+ Trillion in national debt. Trillion dollar deficits.

blaise
11-08-2012, 05:00 AM
He won't, and neither would have Romney. The only difference will be the people saying how responsible the President is for the good or bad would have flip flopped.

HMc
11-08-2012, 05:02 AM
Assault weapons ban. Possibly more thru UN agreements.
Global Internet taxation through the UN.
Global taxation on wealthy through the UN.
Global Warming Taxation through the UN.

Higher cost of medical. I'm already seeing it phased in at work.
Quality of healthcare will go down the shitter.
Massive increase on taxes across the board due to bush tax cuts expiring and higher cost for supporting the entitled lazy people among other things including the obamacare tax.
Decrease in military.
Double dip in the recession is starting post election.
More jobs will move out of the US or close down due to excessive taxation.

But 30+ yo professional students will get free condoms damnit. Illegals will get free healthcare and amnesty damnit. And you can live off the government and not get a job and do about as well as someone that busts his ass 50 hours a week to support his family damnit.

This country should be embarrassed. I have no clue on why any working man or woman would vote for Obama. I have no clue on why anyone with children would vote for him.

The republicans will never win another election due to their beliefs on what made this country great. Their beliefs on building through hard work. Their beliefs on securing our boarders. The majority of the country feels entitled to free things and people won't ever give that up.


Because those people aren't mad and paranoid
because they have a sense of compassion for the less advantaged
because they're capable of looking beyond American borders and seeing that countries with entrenched policies and programs that are far more "socialist" than anything Obama has proposed are able to prosper
Because they don't want to be held hostage on social issues by crazy religious types
Becuase Romney's fiscal plan was never demonstrated to be anything more than "tax cuts will water the magic bean economy"
In summary - because they're educated.
As for the country being embarrassed, in what forum, exactly?

International sentiment indicates re-electing Obama saved you embarrassment, it did not cause it.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/05/poll-most-of-the-world-would-vote-for-obama-except-china/

The Rick
11-08-2012, 06:07 AM
Because those people aren't mad and paranoid
because they have a sense of compassion for the less advantaged
because they're capable of looking beyond American borders and seeing that countries with entrenched policies and programs that are far more "socialist" than anything Obama has proposed are able to prosper
Because they don't want to be held hostage on social issues by crazy religious types
Becuase Romney's fiscal plan was never demonstrated to be anything more than "tax cuts will water the magic bean economy"
In summary - because they're educated.
As for the country being embarrassed, in what forum, exactly?

International sentiment indicates re-electing Obama saved you embarrassment, it did not cause it.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/05/poll-most-of-the-world-would-vote-for-obama-except-china/
Perhaps the rest of the world just wants a President who represents a weaker America. China, on the other hand, may just be tired of lending us money all the time to pay for things like cellphones with free texting for those on the government dole.

BigCatDaddy
11-08-2012, 06:32 AM
20+ Trillion in national debt. Trillion dollar deficits.

That's my biggest fear.

Fish
11-08-2012, 06:39 AM
Civil war, famine, burning of the Constitutuion, theft of guns, forced abortions, execution of the elderly, cats raping dogs... I think it's all been covered on Facebook already...

King_Chief_Fan
11-08-2012, 06:48 AM
just keep doing what he has been doing

banyon
11-08-2012, 06:49 AM
Oh, and 200 grand IS middle class in most parts of the coast.

Where?

What pct of the income scale do you think is the middle?

Saulbadguy
11-08-2012, 06:51 AM
Death panels, Obama Youth, ends free elections, etc etc.

King_Chief_Fan
11-08-2012, 06:53 AM
Because those people aren't mad and paranoid
because they have a sense of compassion for the less advantaged
because they're capable of looking beyond American borders and seeing that countries with entrenched policies and programs that are far more "socialist" than anything Obama has proposed are able to prosper
Because they don't want to be held hostage on social issues by crazy religious types
Becuase Romney's fiscal plan was never demonstrated to be anything more than "tax cuts will water the magic bean economy"
In summary - because they're educated.
As for the country being embarrassed, in what forum, exactly?

International sentiment indicates re-electing Obama saved you embarrassment, it did not cause it.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/05/poll-most-of-the-world-would-vote-for-obama-except-china/

crazy religious types enduring persecution by the socialist who want their agendas front and center at the expense of everyone and everything else.

oldandslow
11-08-2012, 06:58 AM
IMO opinion, there are two possible outcomes if Obama's agenda floats through - 1) Germany or Sweden, which is pretty damn good by any measure, 2) Greece or Spain, which is pretty damn bad by any measure. Those who voted for Obama are betting on 1.

banyon
11-08-2012, 07:00 AM
I think our country will be worse for many reasons, and it would've been worse with Romney too.

The big one is just the constant pressure on US incomes to reach equilibrium with the Chinese/Indian/Indonesians. They still have too many people willing to do our jobs for pittances and our incomes have a long way to go down.

Reaching equilibrium will continue to be very painful for most Americans, especially the middle class.

Until we have leaders willing to confront these problems openly and aggressively, we are in a downward spiral.

BigMeatballDave
11-08-2012, 07:04 AM
20+ trillion in debt

LOCOChief
11-08-2012, 07:10 AM
I know that as a community banker if you are a self employed person with an 800+ credit score and have 20% or more as down payment you have far less chance getting a loan than a person with a W2 from McDonalds with a 640 credit score whom filed bankruptcy 3 years ago putting 3.5% down and are allowed a 5% higher debt to income ratio.
If you have a public pension you will not have a problem getting a loan but if you have an IRA you are completely jacked.
Small / private business is the enemy of this administration and every small business person I deal with feels it.

King_Chief_Fan
11-08-2012, 07:12 AM
I know that as a community banker if you are a self employed person with an 800+ credit score and have 20% or more as down payment you have far less chance getting a loan than a person with a W2 from McDonalds with a 640 credit score whom filed bankruptcy 3 years ago putting 3.5% down and are allowed a 5% higher debt to income ratio.
If you have a public pension you will not have a problem getting a loan but if you have an IRA you are completely jacked.
Small / private business is the enemy of this administration and every small business person I deal with feels it.

why, they didn't build that

htismaqe
11-08-2012, 07:28 AM
I think our country will be worse for many reasons, and it would've been worse with Romney too.

The big one is just the constant pressure on US incomes to reach equilibrium with the Chinese/Indian/Indonesians. They still have too many people willing to do our jobs for pittances and our incomes have a long way to go down.

Reaching equilibrium will continue to be very painful for most Americans, especially the middle class.

Until we have leaders willing to confront these problems openly and aggressively, we are in a downward spiral.

:clap::clap::clap:

Fish
11-08-2012, 07:32 AM
I think our country will be worse for many reasons, and it would've been worse with Romney too.

The big one is just the constant pressure on US incomes to reach equilibrium with the Chinese/Indian/Indonesians. They still have too many people willing to do our jobs for pittances and our incomes have a long way to go down.

Reaching equilibrium will continue to be very painful for most Americans, especially the middle class.

Until we have leaders willing to confront these problems openly and aggressively, we are in a downward spiral.

Nicely said. I wish more people would realize that our problems aren't just tied to one political party or the other.

loochy
11-08-2012, 07:35 AM
Where?

What pct of the income scale do you think is the middle?

That's per household. We're rather close and we are in TEXAS where everything is cheap and we sure as hell aren't rich.

HemiEd
11-08-2012, 08:11 AM
Nicely said. I wish more people would realize that our problems aren't just tied to one political party or the other.
The whole process is broken.

I don't think anything is going to get fixed as long as the politician's main focus is running for re-election, from their first day on the job.

If the offices were limited to one term, difficult choices could and would be made.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 08:24 AM
The whole process is broken.

I don't think anything is going to get fixed as long as the politician's main focus is running for re-election, from their first day on the job.

If the offices were limited to one term, difficult choices could and would be made.

I think they need to be re-elected more often. Leaving them in there for too long is more dangerous. They hate being re-elected. It makes them more accountable.

I don't think the whole process is broken. It's just gridlock. Embrace it. This will help box Obama in—provided they do box him in. He's not Clinton though. It's because there was not enough opposition in Obama's first two years where most of the damage happened. We're going over a cliff no matter who was elected president. Europe is going to wash up on our shores.

HemiEd
11-08-2012, 08:30 AM
I think they need to be re-elected more often. Leaving them in there for too long is more dangerous. They hate being re-elected. It makes them more accountable.

I don't think the whole process is broken. It's just gridlock. Embrace it. This will help box Obama in—provided they do box him in. He's not Clinton though. It's because there was not enough opposition in Obama's first two years where most of the damage happened. We're going over a cliff no matter who was elected president. Europe is going to wash up on our shores.

:spock: It doesn't matter how long or short the term is, they are running for re-election and not doing their job. The deficit is not going to get fixed by someone needing to be re-elected because it is going to cause too much pain.

You are pretty well versed on the politics, I need a question answered please.

If baby boomers are retiring at an average of 10,000 per day, where are those jobs going? Wouldn't that create at least 200,000 openings per month?

okoye35chiefs
11-08-2012, 09:55 AM
I have no clue on why any working man or woman would vote for Obama. I have no clue on why anyone with children would vote for him.

The republicans will never win another election due to their beliefs on what made this country great. Their beliefs on building through hard work. Their beliefs on securing our boarders. The majority of the country feels entitled to free things and people won't ever give that up.

:clap:
well said

KC native
11-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Depends on what kind of moral fiber you have. If you are a lazy fuck. Then things should get better for you.

If you are someone like me. Very small business owner. you are screwed, scarred & just fucking sick of it! OSHA & EPA breathing down my god dam neck. I swear to fucking god the EPA guy shows up again on my job site bitching about my masonry mixer. Im going to start it & stuff his ass into it.
True story

ROFL Bitch please. You'll fucking listen, change whatever they tell you and run to CP and bitch.

DaFace
11-08-2012, 10:11 AM
He won't, and neither would have Romney. The only difference will be the people saying how responsible the President is for the good or bad would have flip flopped.

Yep.

donkhater
11-08-2012, 10:12 AM
Nominating Supreme Court Justices.

Other than that, I'm not sure a whole hell of a lot would be different under Romney. Not the big things anyway.

fan4ever
11-08-2012, 10:24 AM
IMO opinion, there are two possible outcomes if Obama's agenda floats through - 1) Germany or Sweden, which is pretty damn good by any measure, 2) Greece or Spain, which is pretty damn bad by any measure. Those who voted for Obama are betting on 1.

Well since you bet on no. 1, what kind of odds do you think you face? I truly wish for no. 1, but to bet on that would be like me betting on the Chiefs to make the Super Bowl in four years...nothing in the past four indicate the next four would give us a chance in hell.

vailpass
11-08-2012, 10:26 AM
4 more years is going to make it all but impossible to get that smell out of the White House furniture.
Also, another term of michelle's back hair down the drains is going to cause the White House plumbing staff to run a deficit.

Donger
11-08-2012, 10:30 AM
By replicating what he did the previous four years, obviously.

vailpass
11-08-2012, 11:30 AM
ROFL Bitch please. You'll ****ing listen, change whatever they tell you and run to CP and bitch.

Is that any way to speak to your betters?

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 11:43 AM
:spock: It doesn't matter how long or short the term is, they are running for re-election and not doing their job. The deficit is not going to get fixed by someone needing to be re-elected because it is going to cause too much pain.

You are pretty well versed on the politics, I need a question answered please.

If baby boomers are retiring at an average of 10,000 per day, where are those jobs going? Wouldn't that create at least 200,000 openings per month?

That sounds like an economic question more than a political question. I don't speak for the market...it should work that out on it's own.

I am not sure I agree on getting elected more often or not. I just think when they have more time to be in there, they're buffered from their bad decisions. But if the budget is too painful either way then they just don't have the balls to fix it period. Because it's gonna take some pain.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Other than that, I'm not sure a whole hell of a lot would be different under Romney. Not the big things anyway.

I agree. If the politicians won't face up to realities which will involve some pain...just like the American people, life will force them too.

oldandslow
11-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Well since you bet on no. 1, what kind of odds do you think you face? I truly wish for no. 1, but to bet on that would be like me betting on the Chiefs to make the Super Bowl in four years...nothing in the past four indicate the next four would give us a chance in hell.

I voted for Romney.

People think I am schizophrenic because I am pretty liberal and yet voted for Romney...There is a reason why...

I would take no 1 in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, I do not feel Obama has the competence to deliver no 1 and we are more than likely to get #2.

HMc
11-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Perhaps the rest of the world just wants a President who represents a weaker America. China, on the other hand, may just be tired of lending us money all the time to pay for things like cellphones with free texting for those on the government dole.

Oh yeah. The rest of us want want America to tank so the global economy can tank again. We loved that in 2008-2009, it was great :rolleyes:

HMc
11-08-2012, 12:54 PM
crazy religious types enduring persecution by the socialist who want their agendas front and center at the expense of everyone and everything else.

Christians in America aren't being "persecuted". You evidently don't know what "persecuted" means.

The_Grand_Illusion
11-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Oh yeah. The rest of us want want America to tank so the global economy can tank again. We loved that in 2008-2009, it was great :rolleyes:

So we look to the party of big government, the democrats, from the last century to fix the problems of big government?

:rolleyes:

TGI

fan4ever
11-08-2012, 01:30 PM
I voted for Romney.

People think I am schizophrenic because I am pretty liberal and yet voted for Romney...There is a reason why...

I would take no 1 in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, I do not feel Obama has the competence to deliver no 1 and we are more than likely to get #2.

I read a lot of your posts over the past year, and I have to agree with the "people" you mentioned. :p

FishingRod
11-08-2012, 01:41 PM
I don’t think it will be much different than it is now. We will still spend far more than the Government takes in. It will still be ok for the Government to abduct or kill its citizens without proof , representation or a trial. We will still spend Billions of Dollars meddling in the middle east to protect our flow of oil. Government dollars will be direcected more on the political capital it will provides than on what best promotes the general welfare of the Country. The Rich will still be Rich, the poor will still be poor and the middle class will continue to slide towards the poor side of the coin. In short we are getting ready to start George W Obama’s 4th term.

Fish
11-08-2012, 01:46 PM
I donít think it will be much different than it is now. We will still spend far more than the Government takes in. It will still be ok for the Government to abduct or kill its citizens without proof , representation or a trial. We will still spend Billions of Dollars meddling in the middle east to protect our flow of oil. Government dollars will be direcected more on the political capital it will provides than on what best promotes the general welfare of the Country. The Rich will still be Rich, the poor will still be poor and the middle class will continue to slide towards the poor side of the coin. In short we are getting ready to start George W Obamaís 4th term.

Pretty much sums it up....

HemiEd
11-08-2012, 02:54 PM
4 more years is going to make it all but impossible to get that smell out of the White House furniture.
Also, another term of michelle's back hair down the drains is going to cause the White House plumbing staff to run a deficit.

ROFL that is so bad it is wrong, but funny as hell.

J Diddy
11-08-2012, 02:59 PM
Depends on what kind of moral fiber you have. If you are a lazy ****. Then things should get better for you.

If you are someone like me. Very small business owner. you are screwed, scarred & just ****ing sick of it! OSHA & EPA breathing down my god dam neck. I swear to ****ing god the EPA guy shows up again on my job site bitching about my masonry mixer. Im going to start it & stuff his ass into it.
True story

What's wrong with your masonry mixer that has the EPA breathing down your neck?

New World Order
11-08-2012, 03:05 PM
It's easy, lower middle class taxes and tax the rich a tad bit more. Obama then needs to stay out of the private sector, a free market economy has recessions, this won't be the first or the last.

HMc
11-08-2012, 03:56 PM
So we look to the party of big government, the democrats, from the last century to fix the problems of big government?

:rolleyes:

TGI

Big government didn't cause the recession. Indeed bigger government could have prevented it.

Iowanian
11-08-2012, 04:02 PM
I personally know 3 people who have had their jobs eliminated yesterday and today. All over 50, all with 20 years or more time with those companies.


I wonder.....what possible recent outcome could be affecting corporate decisions to eliminate positions this week.........what could it be?


The market dropped another 121 points today.


Rays of sunshine in the economy this week. Wooooooohooooooooo

LiveSteam
11-08-2012, 04:05 PM
What's wrong with your masonry mixer that has the EPA breathing down your neck?

Sand & water runs off the property when cleaning it out & might get into the sewer system. & that is detrimental to the health,safety & welfare of ?
OSHA is the other bunch of fuck tards that like to drive around & toss out 1500.00 dollar fines for all kinds of shit from hard hats to extension cords.

Iowanian
11-08-2012, 04:10 PM
I realize Obama is ****ing small businesses and people who make 200 grand or more a year.

What about the middle class?


Here is something for you to ponder.


The vast majority of "small business owners" ARE middle class....and employee a significant number of middle class people. So, by committing sodomy on small business owners....they're giving prison sex TO the middle class.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-08-2012, 04:17 PM
My understanding is the antichrist will only reign for 7 years, so something's bound to come up.

Iowanian
11-08-2012, 04:22 PM
My understanding is the antichrist will only reign for 7 years, so something's bound to come up.


You have nothing to concern yourself with, when you are sodomized by a 400lb pedophile, dear leader will offer you a free abortion.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-08-2012, 04:26 PM
If I have a butt baby, I'll name it Barry.

KCTitus
11-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Big government didn't cause the recession. Indeed bigger government could have prevented it.

LOL...yep, that's very good. Keep on trucking.

kcpasco
11-08-2012, 04:45 PM
Sand & water runs off the property when cleaning it out & might get into the sewer system. & that is detrimental to the health,safety & welfare of ?
OSHA is the other bunch of **** tards that like to drive around & toss out 1500.00 dollar fines for all kinds of shit from hard hats to extension cords.

Is it really that hard to have employees wear hard hats and provide them with extension cords that are safe to use.

I know some of these laws may seem annoying but they are there to protect worker safety.

DrunkBassGuitar
11-08-2012, 04:46 PM
Its Wiemar Germany all over again!!!11oneone!!!

DrunkBassGuitar
11-08-2012, 04:47 PM
And fuck the FDA as well.

I mean what kind of asshole wants medicine that won't give you meningitis?

banyon
11-08-2012, 05:24 PM
That's per household. We're rather close and we are in TEXAS where everything is cheap and we sure as hell aren't rich.

Per household? 200k?

Why is that # relevant?

Wasn't all of the Obama/left discussion on $200k individual incomes and not household? Doesn't that make a pretty big (almost double in many cases) difference?

Buehler445
11-08-2012, 06:29 PM
I think our country will be worse for many reasons, and it would've been worse with Romney too.

The big one is just the constant pressure on US incomes to reach equilibrium with the Chinese/Indian/Indonesians. They still have too many people willing to do our jobs for pittances and our incomes have a long way to go down.

Reaching equilibrium will continue to be very painful for most Americans, especially the middle class.

Until we have leaders willing to confront these problems openly and aggressively, we are in a downward spiral.

I agree with the bolded part. In all likelihood, real problems would not have been implemented. However, Romney may have at least slowed the bleeding.

However, IMO, the only answer is not necessarily competing with India, China, etc. We can provide jobs with different value added functions. However, business has to have an environment to thrive. To me, that environment has to be stable in terms of taxes and requisite overhead costs (obamacare), a lower tax burden, and less intrusive regulation. All of these things Obama has destroyed.

But no, America is not going to become a manufacturing powerhouse that it was in the 40s and 50s. Those days are over.

The whole process is broken.

I don't think anything is going to get fixed as long as the politician's main focus is running for re-election, from their first day on the job.

If the offices were limited to one term, difficult choices could and would be made.

Maybe. Sometimes experience is good. But unless it gets back to public service instead of advancing one's career, little progress will be made IMO.

Per household? 200k?

Why is that # relevant?

Wasn't all of the Obama/left discussion on $200k individual incomes and not household? Doesn't that make a pretty big (almost double in many cases) difference?

I'm probably not the expert on this, but I know I could run out of money pretty easy if I made 200K out here in bumfucknowhere. Living expenses out here are cheap. I couldn't imagine being shelacked by huge taxes if I lived in high rent areas on the coasts.

The other important aspect is that self employed people that do not have a C-Corp have to pay taxes to accumulate capital. If you have an S-Corp, LLC, etc. and the entity wants to retain earnings, you have to pay tax on the retained earnings. So any business growth is taxed personally in the small business world. So any business growth that is to be financed by retained earnings over 200,000 is going to be taxed heavily.

LiveSteam
11-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Is it really that hard to have employees wear hard hats and provide them with extension cords that are safe to use.

I know some of these laws may seem annoying but they are there to protect worker safety.

If I wanted to wear a hard hat & buy new cord every time they get dirty. I would go work in the Union. & I understand OSHA & the EPA being around huge jobs like those.
My jobs are all new housing. No need for a hard hat unless it hails out. It doesn't matter.If they want to hand you a fine/ they will find something wrong.
The only way around OSHA is to not have employee's. Their nothing you can do about the epa. Build a dirt berm around the mixer.

greg63
11-08-2012, 09:01 PM
That's my biggest fear.

Yup, mine as well.

CoMoChief
11-08-2012, 09:25 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tzBDyVtJ1NA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

banyon
11-09-2012, 07:02 AM
I agree with the bolded part. In all likelihood, real problems would not have been implemented. However, Romney may have at least slowed the bleeding.

Maybe. But maybe what we need is the deep crisis to take the remedial measures needed.

However, IMO, the only answer is not necessarily competing with India, China, etc. We can provide jobs with different value added functions. However, business has to have an environment to thrive. To me, that environment has to be stable in terms of taxes and requisite overhead costs (obamacare), a lower tax burden, and less intrusive regulation. All of these things Obama has destroyed.

But no, America is not going to become a manufacturing powerhouse that it was in the 40s and 50s. Those days are over.

What "value added jobs" do you think exist that cannot at this point be outsourced to people with lower living standards? On the myth of us having competitive advantages where labor costs don't matter, the jig is about up.

AS I've heard Peter Schiff comment: You can only sell each other so many manicures before everyone is out of the actual money that comes from producing things.




I'm probably not the expert on this, but I know I could run out of money pretty easy if I made 200K out here in bum****nowhere. Living expenses out here are cheap. I couldn't imagine being shelacked by huge taxes if I lived in high rent areas on the coasts.

outhega
11-09-2012, 08:36 AM
Oh, and 200 grand IS middle class in most parts of the coast.

Just wanted to point out that according to the U.S. Census Bureau, only 6.03 percent of individuals over 18 and only 19.9 percent of households had incomes of $100,000 or more in 2010. In fact, the median annual household income for 2010 was $50,046, just more than half of the six-figure benchmark.

People always over estimate what others around them make relative to their own incomes.

Predarat
11-09-2012, 09:55 AM
He can't do much worse then dubya did his 2nd term, at least I hope not.

BucEyedPea
11-09-2012, 10:00 AM
He can't do much worse then dubya did his 2nd term, at least I hope not.

Or much worse than Mitt. There was not a big difference between the two.
Spending will increase, taxes will increase, govt will grow, natural rights will dwindle, drone will be in our skies, inflation will return and there will be more war. Just Obama will more likely wage a more covert war on Iran. These would have happened under Mitt too.

Buehler445
11-09-2012, 11:52 AM
Maybe. But maybe what we need is the deep crisis to take the remedial measures needed.



What "value added jobs" do you think exist that cannot at this point be outsourced to people with lower living standards? On the myth of us having competitive advantages where labor costs don't matter, the jig is about up.

AS I've heard Peter Schiff comment: You can only sell each other so many manicures before everyone is out of the actual money that comes from producing things.




I'm probably not the expert on this, but I know I could run out of money pretty easy if I made 200K out here in bum****nowhere. Living expenses out here are cheap. I couldn't imagine being shelacked by huge taxes if I lived in high rent areas on the coasts.


Suggesting that labor costs is the only thing producers compete on is silly. It is a major contributor but it isn't like we have to get minimum wage back down to $.50 or we will never produce anything. I haven't paid any attention to anything but my industry in several years, but here are a few examples.

Ag, in both animal agriculture and grain production in the United States is the most efficient in the world by a fair margin. And we don't compete on with China on labor.

I think there is huge opportunity for railroads if they would just get the unions (and a large part themselves) out of the way. A 100 car train is 300 truckloads. Trains are much more efficient than trucks, but other than coal, not much goes across the country on trains. Shipment could get a lot more competitive and the support for that industry is pretty intensive.

Infrastructure is a big deal. And honestly, that's where most of the government money needs to be going. But even in the private sector there are opportunities there if the government would get out of the way. Are you still in Dodge Banyon? I'm sure you heard about the coal fire plant in Holcomb. They were going to put up transmission lines for a shitload of wind energy, but the EPA blocked it even though it would have been as clean as any plant in the country and cleaner than most. Energy, communications, and transport infrastructure all needs to be addressed.

And that's just what I can think of off hand. America is capable of production, but government has to get out of the goddamned way.

Buehler445
11-09-2012, 12:10 PM
Just wanted to point out that according to the U.S. Census Bureau, only 6.03 percent of individuals over 18 and only 19.9 percent of households had incomes of $100,000 or more in 2010. In fact, the median annual household income for 2010 was $50,046, just more than half of the six-figure benchmark.

People always over estimate what others around them make relative to their own incomes.

Maybe I'm not as dirt poor as I thought, but I can assure you I'm far from living comfortably enough to give my money away.

Comrade Crapski
11-10-2012, 06:50 AM
The Interior Department on Friday issued a final plan to close 1.6 million acres of federal land in the West originally slated for oil shale development.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/267095-interior-proposes-shielding-federal-lands-in-west-from-drilling

Calcountry
11-10-2012, 01:38 PM
I think our country will be worse for many reasons, and it would've been worse with Romney too.

The big one is just the constant pressure on US incomes to reach equilibrium with the Chinese/Indian/Indonesians. They still have too many people willing to do our jobs for pittances and our incomes have a long way to go down.

Reaching equilibrium will continue to be very painful for most Americans, especially the middle class.

Until we have leaders willing to confront these problems openly and aggressively, we are in a downward spiral.Best post in the thread. Does Mumbai have Obamacare? No? Well then, I think I can make my widgets cheaper over there.

Good luck with taxing that guy.

Calcountry
11-10-2012, 01:40 PM
We shouldn't be surprised, really. Obama promised to "spread the wealth around". Only, he wasn't talking about spreading rich guys in America to poor guys in America. He was talking about spreading America's wealth back to the countries of the world that he believes America stole it from.