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alnorth
11-08-2012, 04:30 PM
...he apparently really did have one speech. He was so incredibly confident that he was going to win, that not just losing, but losing decisively "shellshocked" him.

You'd hope that regardless of what the right-wing voters tell themselves or ignore, that a national campaign would know the facts. It probably would not have made a difference, but by not knowing they were behind, they wasted time trying to expand the map in un-winnable states to create a more decisive victory and a mandate, thinking they were solid in the states they needed for 270.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57547239/adviser-romney-shellshocked-by-loss/?pageNum=1

Brock
11-08-2012, 04:33 PM
I thought his remarks were very well done in any event.

alnorth
11-08-2012, 04:34 PM
Other bits of overconfident hilarity:

The campaign spent $25K (http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/11/08/mitt-romney-planned-boston-harbor-fireworks-show-that-was-scotched-election-loss/qmgtVKPq4zNnDyb9FbLWeJ/story.html) on an 8-minute fireworks show to celebrate victory. The fireworks obviously were unloaded from the barge and sent back.

They also had a president-elect transition site up and running Tuesday night long enough for people to get screenshots before it was taken down after the concession.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/11/8/1352403458889/-460.png

Romney's slogan would have been: "smaller, simpler, smarter"

Mr. Flopnuts
11-08-2012, 04:35 PM
I thought his remarks were very well done in any event.

Absolutely. Said it that night. Total class act.

BigRedChief
11-08-2012, 04:35 PM
I read an article today that quoted a Romney staffer that said their internal polls 2 days before the election showed then winning Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire, Iowa and Colorado.

cdcox
11-08-2012, 04:39 PM
Unbelievable how naiive and incompetant their whole approach to polling, demographics, and analysis were. The deintellectualization of the Republican party continues.

alnorth
11-08-2012, 04:40 PM
2. Independents. State polls showed Romney winning big among independents. Historically, any candidate polling that well among independents wins. But as it turned out, many of those independents were former Republicans who now self-identify as independents. The state polls weren't oversampling Democrats and undersampling Republicans - there just weren't as many Republicans this time because they were calling themselves independents.

I've been saying this for weeks. I am also a former republican who now self-identifies as independent when I'm polled.

DJ's left nut
11-08-2012, 04:43 PM
Unbelievable how naiive and incompetant their whole approach to polling, demographics, and analysis were. The deintellectualism of the Republican party continues.

On that there can be no disagreement.

The DNC absolutely murdered the RNC and the respective candidates campaigns weren't any closer.

The way the Democrats ran their operations in this cycle reminds me of when Catherine Hanaway came into power in Missouri. She whipped the Republican machine into shape and set a cycle in motion that obliterated the Democrats after they'd held the majority in Missouri for decades.

I was always amazed by how well organized the Republican Caucus was in Missouri and really the D's did the same thing on a national level this time around.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 04:45 PM
I've been saying this for weeks. I am also a former republican who now self-identifies as independent when I'm polled.

I told them I was a Republican leaning Independent, although registered for one reasonóclosed primary. Then I got dozens of calls with Mitt's voice chiding me for not sending in my absentee ballot yet. I was called every other minute it was so relenting. I threatened to vote for Obama if they didn't stop it.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 04:46 PM
On that there can be no disagreement.

The DNC absolutely murdered the RNC and the respective candidates campaigns weren't any closer.

The way the Democrats ran their operations in this cycle reminds me of when Catherine Hanaway came into power in Missouri. She whipped the Republican machine into shape and set a cycle in motion that obliterated the Democrats after they'd held the majority in Missouri for decades.

I was always amazed by how well organized the Republican Caucus was in Missouri and really the D's did the same thing on a national level this time around.

It used to be that the Rs had the better campaigns.

DaFace
11-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Unbelievable how naiive and incompetant their whole approach to polling, demographics, and analysis were. The deintellectualization of the Republican party continues.

I'm admittedly not much of an expert on this type of polling, but I find the fact that they just randomly assumed that the turnout would be the same as 2004 to be very strange. I don't know how you make that assumption without any good reason to do so.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 04:48 PM
I read an article today that quoted a Romney staffer that said their internal polls 2 days before the election showed then winning Florida, Ohio, New Hampshire, Iowa and Colorado.

I think it's possible there were a lot of undecideds or people changing their minds back and forth. I was going to vote for Gary Johnson. Then I went Mitt. Then back to Johnson ( usually after seeing Donger's threads or posts on Iran) then decided just a few days before to go with Mitt. Only because I felt Obama should be fired like any other worker not getting results and taking too many vacations. In some polls I was called on the phone about I said I was undecided. I'm sure they thought that meant between Obama and Mitt. It was only between Johnson and Mitt though.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 04:50 PM
On that there can be no disagreement.

The DNC absolutely murdered the RNC and the respective candidates campaigns weren't any closer.

The way the Democrats ran their operations in this cycle reminds me of when Catherine Hanaway came into power in Missouri. She whipped the Republican machine into shape and set a cycle in motion that obliterated the Democrats after they'd held the majority in Missouri for decades.

I was always amazed by how well organized the Republican Caucus was in Missouri and really the D's did the same thing on a national level this time around.

The problem is and continues to be that pieces of shit like Rick Santorum need to ride off into the sunset. I'm sorry, but he lost the election for Romney more than anybody. Romney was forced into a lot of unpopular social positions during the primaries, and in my opinion, I don't think he was enthusiastic about any of them.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 04:52 PM
The problem is and continues to be that pieces of shit like Rick Santorum need to ride off into the sunset. I'm sorry, but he lost the election for Romney more than anybody. Romney was forced into a lot of unpopular social positions during the primaries, and in my opinion, I don't think he was enthusiastic about any of them.

Well, you can blame Romney for compromising his integrity by pandering. It's not just Santorum's fault.

cosmo20002
11-08-2012, 04:53 PM
The problem is and continues to be that pieces of shit like Rick Santorum need to ride off into the sunset. I'm sorry, but he lost the election for Romney more than anybody. Romney was forced into a lot of unpopular social positions during the primaries, and in my opinion, I don't think he was enthusiastic about any of them.

:facepalm: Yeah, he certianly wouldn't want to be caught being sincere.

alnorth
11-08-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm admittedly not much of an expert on this type of polling, but I find the fact that they just randomly assumed that the turnout would be the same as 2004 to be very strange. I don't know how you make that assumption without any good reason to do so.

Well, making assumptions about how many of each group will vote is fine. It is absolutely required because whites and older people answer the phone more often than other groups.

The fact that Romney's campaign thought that black voters would stay home when a black president is running for re-election, or that hispanics wouldn't turn out for a guy basically offering amnesty, is weird. The white vote has been on a long, slow, inexorable decline with one exception during Bush's re-election I think when it ticked up. Obama's campaign presumed that white voters would come down another 1 or 2 percent, consistent with the long-term trend.

What is astonishing to me is that the young voters turned out again. (about half, which sounds bad but for young voters that is historically very, very high) Its becoming clear that although Generation X was a bunch of lazy slackers in the 1990's with really pathetic turnout in the 30's during their younger years, the Millennials are going to be far more reliable as voters.

KChiefer
11-08-2012, 05:01 PM
Other bits of overconfident hilarity:

The campaign spent $25K (http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/11/08/mitt-romney-planned-boston-harbor-fireworks-show-that-was-scotched-election-loss/qmgtVKPq4zNnDyb9FbLWeJ/story.html) on an 8-minute fireworks show to celebrate victory. The fireworks obviously were unloaded from the barge and sent back.

I hope The White House buys them at an inflated cost and uses them next 4th.

DaFace
11-08-2012, 05:01 PM
What is astonishing to me is that the young voters turned out again. (about half, which sounds bad but for young voters that is historically very, very high) Its becoming clear that although Generation X was a bunch of lazy slackers in the 1990's with really pathetic turnout in the 30's during their younger years, the Millennials are going to be far more reliable as voters.

I wonder if you could say that social media has had a hand in that. While it was basically cool to stay home in the 90's and just be isolated, these days Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. are all basically non-stop "Go Vote" machines around election day.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:01 PM
Well, making assumptions about how many of each group will vote is fine. It is absolutely required because whites and older people answer the phone more often than other groups.

The fact that Romney's campaign thought that black voters would stay home when a black president is running for re-election, or that hispanics wouldn't turn out for a guy basically offering amnesty, is weird. The white vote has been on a long, slow, inexorable decline with one exception during Bush's re-election I think when it ticked up. Obama's campaign presumed that white voters would come down another 1 or 2 percent, consistent with the long-term trend.

What is astonishing to me is that the young voters turned out again. (about half, which sounds bad but for young voters that is historically very, very high) Its becoming clear that although Generation X was a bunch of lazy slackers in the 1990's with really pathetic turnout in the 30's during their younger years, the Millennials are going to be far more reliable as voters.

I know a gay guy that voted solely because Obama reversed his stand on the gay issues. I don't think that was sincere of Obama but for the election. The students that dorm with my daughter voted for Obama for social issues more. Many of them were Hispanics with foreign parents getting a free ride.

ChiefsCountry
11-08-2012, 05:02 PM
What is astonishing to me is that the young voters turned out again. (about half, which sounds bad but for young voters that is historically very, very high) Its becoming clear that although Generation X was a bunch of lazy slackers in the 1990's with really pathetic turnout in the 30's during their younger years, the Millennials are going to be far more reliable as voters.

Larger in numbers. Gen Y (Millennials) are the largest group in history. They will blow by Gen X fairly quickly - politically, jobs, etc.

alnorth
11-08-2012, 05:04 PM
I wonder if you could say that social media has had a hand in that. While it was basically cool to stay home in the 90's and just be isolated, these days Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. are all basically non-stop "Go Vote" machines around election day.

The millennials are going to be a really big problem for republicans. They aren't even all voting age yet, and demographically the millennials are going to be bigger than the baby boomers. (Gen X and the generation before that were both fairly small in comparison.)

They may eventually turn more conservative when they hit their 30's, but for the next several elections, thats yet another roadblock for the GOP.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:06 PM
Larger in numbers. Gen Y (Millennials) are the largest group in history. They will blow by Gen X fairly quickly - politically, jobs, etc.

My daughter is a Millennial. She said about half the college students she knew were either for Obama or Ron Paul. The Evangelicals, since she's in the Bible Belt, went for Mitt. Obviously, Paul was knocked out. Who knows how many of them voted for Gary Johnson, Mitt or Obama. But the war issue is a big one for them...and the Republicans suck on that front. However, Obama is just more covert about that and sounds anti-war. Give them time to see that.

Charts I saw showed Mitt getting 49% of Independent vote to Obama's 45%.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:07 PM
The millennials are going to be a really big problem for republicans. They aren't even all voting age yet, and demographically the millennials are going to be bigger than the baby boomers. (Gen X and the generation before that were both fairly small in comparison.)

They may eventually turn more conservative when they hit their 30's, but for the next several elections, thats yet another roadblock for the GOP.

Dr. Drew said a lot of them lean more libertarian than social democrat. So I don't see it hurting the Republicans that badly, if they really are not for high taxes and job opportunities and a chance to make it rich. That appeals to them too.

If not, then the public schools have done a much better job churning out lickspittles for big govt.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 05:17 PM
Well, you can blame Romney for compromising his integrity by pandering. It's not just Santorum's fault.

I think we all know that to win an election, you have no choice but to pander. But I would rather a person be insincere about pandering to stupid positions than a shithead like Santorum who actually believes what he said. One of the reasons I actually liked Romney.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 05:18 PM
My daughter is a Millennial. She said about half the college students she knew were either for Obama or Ron Paul. The Evangelicals, since she's in the Bible Belt, went for Mitt. Obviously, Paul was knocked out. Who knows how many of them voted for Gary Johnson, Mitt or Obama. But the war issue is a big one for them...and the Republicans suck on that front. However, Obama is just more covert about that and sounds anti-war. Give them time to see that.

Charts I saw showed Mitt getting 49% of Independent vote to Obama's 45%.

Romney would have crushed Obama among independents if the conservatives didn't draw out the primary by marching Santorum out there for months on end.

FD
11-08-2012, 05:20 PM
I wonder if you could say that social media has had a hand in that. While it was basically cool to stay home in the 90's and just be isolated, these days Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. are all basically non-stop "Go Vote" machines around election day.

I think this is dead on, this younger generation is going to be a lot more engaged politically. I also think the GOP will never win this group until it drops its anti-gay positions/rhetoric.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Romney would have crushed Obama among independents if the conservatives didn't draw out the primary by marching Santorum out there for months on end.

No one marched Santorum out except Santorum who had enough votes to remain in for the time he did.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:23 PM
I think we all know that to win an election, you have no choice but to pander. But I would rather a person be insincere about pandering to stupid positions than a shithead like Santorum who actually believes what he said. One of the reasons I actually liked Romney.

Well unfortunately, Mitt just pandered way too much. Wholesale phoney. You just like him.
He was a Massachusetts liberal who ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in 1994 in Mass and governed the state like Mario Cuomo.

alnorth
11-08-2012, 05:25 PM
random millennial trivia: they love wine. Go figure.

Beer obviously will always be king among alcohol, but the millennials have been fueling a strong wine comeback, drinking wine far more often than Gen X did when they were their age or even now. Wineries now openly cater to them, host wedding receptions, etc.

underEJ
11-08-2012, 05:29 PM
I know a gay guy that voted solely because Obama reversed his stand on the gay issues. I don't think that was sincere of Obama but for the election. The students that dorm with my daughter voted for Obama for social issues more. Many of them were Hispanics with foreign parents getting a free ride.

I think you are right about the sincerity, but I think the insincere act was actually before the first election, saying he opposed gay marriage in the first place. I don't think he ever did oppose it.

ChiefsCountry
11-08-2012, 05:31 PM
random millennial trivia: they love wine. Go figure.

Beer obviously will always be king among alcohol, but the millennials have been fueling a strong wine comeback, drinking wine far more often than Gen X did when they were their age or even now. Wineries now openly cater to them, host wedding receptions, etc.

I fall in the millennial category and yep we do love wine.

J Diddy
11-08-2012, 05:31 PM
The problem is and continues to be that pieces of shit like Rick Santorum need to ride off into the sunset. I'm sorry, but he lost the election for Romney more than anybody. Romney was forced into a lot of unpopular social positions during the primaries, and in my opinion, I don't think he was enthusiastic about any of them.

He wasn't forced to go down any path. He could have stood his ground and showed what he was made up, instead he pandered and it bit him in his ass in the general election.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 05:35 PM
I think you are right about the sincerity, but I think the insincere act was actually before the first election, saying he opposed gay marriage in the first place. I don't think he ever did oppose it.

That's entirely possible. The thing is, it shouldn't matter what any president personally thinks of it. It's a 1) a social issue which is 2) a state issue.
People just don't understand federalism.

listopencil
11-08-2012, 05:42 PM
No one cares/alnorth

Brock
11-08-2012, 06:20 PM
I think this is dead on, this younger generation is going to be a lot more engaged politically. I also think the GOP will never win this group until it drops its anti-gay positions/rhetoric.

x2

BigRedChief
11-08-2012, 07:34 PM
I think this is dead on, this younger generation is going to be a lot more engaged politically. I also think the GOP will never win this group until it drops its anti-gay positions/rhetoric.Also abortion. The younger generation see it as a done deal. They have not known a world without legal abortions. They don't get it why we should dictate to others.

Pitt Gorilla
11-08-2012, 07:35 PM
I thought his remarks were very well done in any event.Agreed.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 07:56 PM
He wasn't forced to go down any path. He could have stood his ground and showed what he was made up, instead he pandered and it bit him in his ass in the general election.

Without pandering, he isn't in the general election. The only way a moderate can get onto a real ticket is by pandering. And me being a moderate, that fucking sucks and it makes the whole democratic process completely stupid.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 08:05 PM
No one marched Santorum out except Santorum who had enough votes to remain in for the time he did.

The fact that Santorum was coming in 2nd place and winning states in the primaries highlights everything that's wrong with Republicans.

cosmo20002
11-08-2012, 08:09 PM
Other bits of overconfident hilarity:

The campaign spent $25K (http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/11/08/mitt-romney-planned-boston-harbor-fireworks-show-that-was-scotched-election-loss/qmgtVKPq4zNnDyb9FbLWeJ/story.html) on an 8-minute fireworks show to celebrate victory. The fireworks obviously were unloaded from the barge and sent back.


Looks like we dodged a bullet as far as fiscal responsibility.

dirk digler
11-08-2012, 08:12 PM
He can afford an expensive fireworks display but can't afford to pay\help his staff.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/11/08/mitt-romneys-campaign-cancels-staffers-credit-cards-in-the-middle-of-the-night/

The next time you have the misfortune of hearing a Wall Street titan or other one-percenter whine about how their trickle-down contributions are not appreciated by the masses remember this tidbit, courtesy of Garrett Haake at NBC (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/romney-staff-credit-cards-110812): From the moment Mitt Romney stepped off stage Tuesday night, having just delivered a brief concession speech he wrote only that evening, the massive infrastructure surrounding his campaign quickly began to disassemble itself.

Aides taking cabs home late that night got rude awakenings when they found the credit cards linked to the campaign no longer worked.

cosmo20002
11-08-2012, 08:22 PM
Without pandering, he isn't in the general election. The only way a moderate can get onto a real ticket is by pandering. And me being a moderate, that ****ing sucks and it makes the whole democratic process completely stupid.

Well, its what makes our process stupid. There's no law requiring two major parties and especially, the current primary system for choosing the candidates.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 08:27 PM
Well, its what makes our process stupid. There's no law requiring two major parties and especially, the current primary system for choosing the candidates.

It is naive to believe that there is any systematic way for any third party to actually compete in an election. It might as well be law.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 08:35 PM
The fact that Santorum was coming in 2nd place and winning states in the primaries highlights everything that's wrong with Republicans.

In your opinion. If anything, it shows the need for federalism and de-centralized govt even more, since one central govt can't decide everything for everyone. Makes a presidential elections less important too.

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 08:40 PM
In your opinion. If anything, it shows the need for federalism and de-centralized govt even more, since one central govt can't decide everything for everyone. Makes a presidential elections less important too.

It shows that the Republican nomination is still heavily influenced by the religious right. They aren't going to win primary elections but they will influence the outcome. And frankly, as the Republican party gets more progressive, I could see the problem getting worse because there seem to be fiscal conservatives who don't identify with either established party.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 08:45 PM
It shows that the Republican nomination is still heavily influenced by the religious right. They aren't going to win primary elections but they will influence the outcome. And frankly, as the Republican party gets more progressive, I could see the problem getting worse because there seem to be fiscal conservatives who don't identify with either established party.

Yeah, that's why Romney got the nomination.

Pitt Gorilla
11-08-2012, 08:46 PM
The fact that Santorum was even remotely relevant is a problem with the Republican party.

KChiefer
11-08-2012, 08:50 PM
The fact that Santorum was even remotely relevant is a problem with the Republican party.

You SNOB!!!

Brock
11-08-2012, 08:51 PM
Bachmann too. Where the fuck do these people come from?

chiefzilla1501
11-08-2012, 08:51 PM
Yeah, that's why Romney got the nomination.

Romney won the nomination because I think there is enough of a groundswell of conservatives that get that principles don't matter if your principled candidate can't beat the other guy.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Romney won the nomination because I think there is enough of a groundswell of conservatives that get that principles don't matter if your principled candidate can't beat the other guy.

No he got the nomination because he was the anointed one as in being the next in line. Your principled analysis doesn't work, when he was a liberal that pandered to the conservatives—not the other way around. They also can't win without that base either.

BucEyedPea
11-08-2012, 08:58 PM
Also, polls showed the public was tired of the animosity and bickering instead of doing what was best for the country.

Of course the media covered for Obama more on that.

Pitt Gorilla
11-08-2012, 09:46 PM
Bachmann too. Where the **** do these people come from?unfortunately, Iowa. Sorry.

Ebolapox
11-08-2012, 09:48 PM
Looks like we dodged a bullet as far as fiscal responsibility.

ROFL

yeah. clearly we got the better alternative on THAT one.

:spock: