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ChiefsandO'sfan
11-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Sam Amick, USA TODAY SportsShare
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12:58PM EST November 9. 2012 - Mike Brown has been fired by the Los Angeles Lakers, according to his agent Warren Legarie.

The Lakers are off to a 1-4 start and will play Golden State tonight at the Staples Center.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2012/11/09/mike-brown-fired-by-lakers/1694785/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomSports-TopStories+%28Sports+-+Top+Stories%29

ptlyon
11-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Outstanding!

dirk digler
11-09-2012, 12:06 PM
Kobe got his wish

Buck
11-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Holy shit, I was listening to the radio this morning on the way to the gym and they were saying that there was speculation if he didn't do well on this next homestand he would be fired, but they didn't say anything about today.

They did say they are going hard after Jerry Sloan.

DaKCMan AP
11-09-2012, 12:07 PM
lolz

ottawa_chiefs_fan
11-09-2012, 12:08 PM
welcome back, phil!

Sorter
11-09-2012, 12:09 PM
Holy shit, I was listening to the radio this morning on the way to the gym and they were saying that there was speculation if he didn't do well on this next homestand he would be fired, but they didn't say anything about today.

They did say they are going hard after Jerry Sloan.

Lakers don't have a mailman.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:11 PM
Thank goodness! Lakers front office dont fuck around.

SNR
11-09-2012, 12:11 PM
Mike Brown was the one thing standing in the way of the Lakers achieving a dominant season.

His firing happened quite early in the year. I think the Lakers now have a shot at the 1 seed in spite of their slow start.

bevischief
11-09-2012, 12:14 PM
Come on Clark fire Peeholi.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:14 PM
Lakers don't have a mailman.

They dont need a mailman. He's a good coach with an older team that will fucking listen. Its not like he's coming in to coach 21 year olds.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:14 PM
Come on Clark fire Peeholi.

Difference between a good organization and a bad one. When they see something bad and a wrong fit they fix it immediatly or at least attempt too.

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 12:17 PM
I flew a banner over Staples, I guess it worked.

DaKCMan AP
11-09-2012, 12:17 PM
Adrian Wonarowski @WojYahooNBA
As Lakers ownership has been considering firing of Brown, Mike D'Antoni has been a prominent name discussed as replacement, sources tell Y!



LMAO ROFL :LOL:

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 12:20 PM
D'Antoni?

vailpass
11-09-2012, 12:21 PM
Did that make the Lakers players younger?

dirk digler
11-09-2012, 12:21 PM
Adrian Wonarowski @WojYahooNBA
As Lakers ownership has been considering firing of Brown, Mike D'Antoni has been a prominent name discussed as replacement, sources tell Y!



LMAO ROFL :LOL:

too funny

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 12:22 PM
Obviously he has a great relationship with Nash but pass.

Deberg_1990
11-09-2012, 12:24 PM
Nice.....maybe he can come back to work for the Spurs under Pop again.

Sorter
11-09-2012, 12:26 PM
They dont need a mailman. He's a good coach with an older team that will ****ing listen. Its not like he's coming in to coach 21 year olds.

EVERY GODDAMN SLOAN TEAM NEEDS A MILKMAN!!!!!!!!



http://th304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Situation/Hit/not%20funny%20-%20Karl%20Malone/th_dirtykarlmalonekillsisiahthomaswith.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/dhHw5Wt5dmb8bzndwChHslG6o1_400.jpg

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2012/01/2dbabc1023ece69bfd81ccb790b6f7c9.jpg

KC native
11-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Mike Brown was the one thing standing in the way of the Lakers achieving a dominant season.

His firing happened quite early in the year. I think the Lakers now have a shot at the 1 seed in spite of their slow start.

ROFL a shot? Only if the Spurs and Thunder die in plane crashes.

Buck
11-09-2012, 12:27 PM
Uh...Nash might like that, but fuck D'Antoni.

If they can't get Sloan, I say try to hire away Shaw from the Pacers.

KC native
11-09-2012, 12:30 PM
I really hope you guys hire D'antoni. Would love for the Spurs to keep dominating him on a reguular basis.

DaKCMan AP
11-09-2012, 12:31 PM
Bill Simmons @sportsguy33
"I can't believe the Mike Brown era didn't work out." --Nobody

Stanley Nickels
11-09-2012, 12:39 PM
Remember the questionable argument that I made in another thread, RE: Pioli and Haley? Yeah, this is the unquestionable example. You're gonna bring in Brown's PRINCETON SNOREFEST OFFENSE to a team with the most athletic big man, one of the most agile and penetrating point guards (Nash), and KOBE? REALLY!? He should've never been hired to begin with.

Stanley Nickels
11-09-2012, 12:39 PM
QUIN SNYDER FOR LAKERS COACH!!1

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 12:40 PM
Calipari.

Count Alex's Losses
11-09-2012, 12:41 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535514_535967489765113_958028002_n.jpg

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Honestly the Princeton wasnt the problem.

Mike Brown is supposed to be a defensive genius and hes got one of the best defenders in the game. This team was giving up 100 points to BS teams and looked like shit.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Remember the questionable argument that I made in another thread, RE: Pioli and Haley? Yeah, this is the unquestionable example. You're gonna bring in Brown's PRINCETON SNOREFEST OFFENSE to a team with the most athletic big man, one of the most agile and penetrating point guards (Nash), and KOBE? REALLY!? He should've never been hired to begin with.

I think everyone knew that but Mike Brown.

Sorter
11-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Honestly the Princeton wasnt the problem.

Mike Brown is supposed to be a defensive genius and hes got one of the best defenders in the game. This team was giving up 100 points to BS teams and looked like shit.

NBA teams play defense during the regular season?

Really? I thought they boycotted that shit after Y2K...

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:44 PM
NBA teams play defense during the regular season?

Really? I thought they boycotted that shit after Y2K...
When was the last time you watched the NBA? They have done alot to not make it like the NFL with all offense and little defense.

Sorter
11-09-2012, 12:47 PM
When was the last time you watched the NBA? They have done alot to not make it like the NFL with all offense and little defense.

I watched teh playoffs just about every year with a few games during the regular season.

I don't think that NBA players play defense during the beginning of the regular season like they do in the playoffs. Of course, I don't watch NBA very much anymore, so I probably am wrong.

Mr. Laz
11-09-2012, 12:49 PM
The choice of trying to run the Princeton offense was terrible.


it's a high energy,motion offense designed to give a lesser talented team a chance to compete through intelligences and effort. The exact opposite of what the Lakers have with their older,uber talented team who has to conserve energy for defense and to stay healthy.

A double pick and roll offense is pretty much all they need.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 12:50 PM
I watched teh playoffs just about every year with a few games during the regular season.

I don't think that NBA players play defense during the beginning of the regular season like they do in the playoffs. Of course, I don't watch NBA very much anymore, so I probably am wrong.

of course its not going to be tip top at the beg of the year just like NFL teams are where they need to be at the beg of the year.

But, yes you are fairly wrong. There are some teams that are bad no doubt, but there are some teams that are really freaking good on defense.

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 12:50 PM
Just throwing it out there but I would have loved to see Messina get a shot. Too bad.

Sorter
11-09-2012, 12:51 PM
of course its not going to be tip top at the beg of the year just like NFL teams are where they need to be at the beg of the year.

But, yes you are fairly wrong. There are some teams that are bad no doubt, but there are some teams that are really freaking good on defense.

I'll have to start watching again I suppose. What are the good defensive teams?

SNR
11-09-2012, 12:51 PM
ROFL a shot? Only if the Spurs and Thunder die in plane crashes.

Yeah, you're probably right. It would seem far more normal if the Spurs got that 1 seed and did something retarded like lose to a team like the Memphis Grizzlies or the fucking Golden State Warriors.

CoMoChief
11-09-2012, 12:59 PM
Phil Jackson come on down....this is another loaded Lakers team he can win another Finals with.

Buck
11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Are we even allowed to talk to B Shaw?

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Its not going to be D'Antoni thank god. Hejust had surgery and is down til December.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Are we even allowed to talk to B Shaw?

For a head coaching job yes!, but i have a strong feeling we are going to see Phil Jackson again.

theelusiveeightrop
11-09-2012, 01:03 PM
Not even 10% of the season gone by, and they make a decisive move. Meanwhile, in KCMO...............

BWillie
11-09-2012, 01:14 PM
Gotta hire phil...give him one last shot to ride into the sunset

theelusiveeightrop
11-09-2012, 01:19 PM
NBA is damn near unwatchable.

okcchief
11-09-2012, 01:29 PM
I don't think they make the move unless its Phil Jackson.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 01:45 PM
NBA is damn near unwatchable.

Most talent and better games now Imo then ever. So many great to good players now days.

vailpass
11-09-2012, 01:48 PM
Most talent and better games now Imo then ever. So many great to good players now days.

How old are you?

mcaj22
11-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Most talent and better games now Imo then ever. So many great to good players now days.

doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

Sorter
11-09-2012, 02:13 PM
doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

This

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 02:19 PM
How old are you?

36, been watching NBA since about 1981 every year since then, so i know a bit about what im talking about and i still stand by that.

-King-
11-09-2012, 02:19 PM
Gotta hire phil...give him one last shot to ride into the sunset

:spock: The dude has a ring for each of his fingers and one for his dick... I don't think he is worried about riding into the sunset.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 02:20 PM
doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

90's the most over rated decade by far. They didnt have close to the ammount of good and great players as they do now. Though they did have the best player of all time, that i will give the 90's. Thought he 2000's til about 2007 were pretty awful, but since then, its been really freaking good.

-King-
11-09-2012, 02:21 PM
doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

Well... there are 7 more teams in the league.


But yeah, he's right. There is much more talent in the league than there has ever been (other than at the 5).

DaneMcCloud
11-09-2012, 02:24 PM
doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

You're smoking crack.

NBA teams are LOADED with talent today that would destroy teams from the 80's and even 90's.

If you don't know this, it's clear that not only do you not watch the NBA on a regular basis, you don't attend the games, either.

USA basketball is stronger and more talented than it's ever been in history. Throw in the strong contingent of international players and you're looking at the most talented the league's ever been.

vailpass
11-09-2012, 03:26 PM
36, been watching NBA since about 1981 every year since then, so i know a bit about what im talking about and i still stand by that.

You would be in the vast minority in thinking today's NBA compares even remotely with the 80s and 90s NBA. But everyone has a right to their opinion be it right or wrong.

vailpass
11-09-2012, 03:27 PM
90's the most over rated decade by far. They didnt have close to the ammount of good and great players as they do now. Though they did have the best player of all time, that i will give the 90's. Thought he 2000's til about 2007 were pretty awful, but since then, its been really freaking good.

90s ended when MJ did.
Then, nothing.NBA ratings were and are abysmal since Mike.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 03:29 PM
You would be in the vast minority in thinking today's NBA compares even remotely with the 80s and 90s NBA. But everyone has a right to their opinion be it right or wrong.

in the physical play and what they are allowed to do, the 80's may be considered 90's somewhat, they let them play way reckless, but the talent, not even close now days. At least over all talent. Even on shitty teams there are damned good young players that are worth watching. Some of them may even become great nba players very soon.

JUst look at the rosters and just see how many guys that are good. its insane.

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 03:31 PM
http://i.minus.com/ibcM70I8z4J1b5.gif


http://i.imgur.com/17Zf0.gif

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 03:31 PM
90s ended when MJ did.
Then, nothing.NBA ratings were and are abysmal since Mike.


Thats just 1 player. Mike was fun to watch. I HATED the bulls and even JOrdan, but if he was on tv, damn right i was gonna watch it, he was fun to watch, dude was simply amazing.

AGain, with the talent and how many good players, its not even close. YOu got talent from all over the world and these arent just ok players anymore, they are damned good players. Night and day difference in overall talent.

Ill argue with anyone about that, because its simply a fact just watch the NBA now days.

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 03:33 PM
You're smoking crack.

NBA teams are LOADED with talent today that would destroy teams from the 80's and even 90's.

If you don't know this, it's clear that not only do you not watch the NBA on a regular basis, you don't attend the games, either.

USA basketball is stronger and more talented than it's ever been in history. Throw in the strong contingent of international players and you're looking at the most talented the league's ever been.

I don't think teams now would destroy the 80's and 90's teams at all. You're right about the international contingent making the league stronger as a whole, though.

But if you put Steve Nash in short shorts and filmed in black and white, everyone would be saying "that dude could NEVER play in the league today!!"

Except he was the MVP.

DaneMcCloud
11-09-2012, 03:33 PM
90s ended when MJ did.
Then, nothing.NBA ratings were and are abysmal since Mike.

But that was before the dawn of satellite TV and 600 channels.

The NBA will never return to the ratings of the 80's but rights fees continue to ascend.

Basketball, like baseball, has too many games and too many teams to get the kind of ratings each did back in the 70's and 80's.

Personally, I think the game has improved both in the arena and on TV. Theses guys are just so fucking big and so fucking graceful in person. It's like they're a different species of human beings, altogether.

Seriously.

DaneMcCloud
11-09-2012, 03:36 PM
I don't think teams now would destroy the 80's and 90's teams at all. You're right about the international contingent making the league stronger as a whole, though.

But if you put Steve Nash in short shorts and filmed in black and white, everyone would be saying "that dude could NEVER play in the league today!!"

Except he was the MVP.

While a squad consisting of NBA MVP's from the 80's would likely keep up, most regular teams, outside of Boston, Detroit and the Lakers, would likely be destroyed by those very same teams of 2012.

It wouldn't even be close.

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Thats just 1 player. Mike was fun to watch. I HATED the bulls and even JOrdan, but if he was on tv, damn right i was gonna watch it, he was fun to watch, dude was simply amazing.

AGain, with the talent and how many good players, its not even close. YOu got talent from all over the world and these arent just ok players anymore, they are damned good players. Night and day difference in overall talent.

Ill argue with anyone about that, because its simply a fact just watch the NBA now days.

The NBA is about top-end talent. The top-end talent is not better now than in the 80's/90's. Certainly not miles ahead.

You have to remember that teams were better coached, more fundamentally sound, and just overall smarter. They also stayed together longer, which made the teams so much more fluid.

Magic's Lakers would kick the hot shit out of Kobe's Lakers.

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 03:40 PM
While a squad consisting of NBA MVP's from the 80's would likely keep up, most regular teams, outside of Boston, Detroit and the Lakers, would likely be destroyed by those very same teams of 2012.

It wouldn't even be close.

It all evens out. Individuals now are better, but the teams were better then.

EDIT: Whoa whoa whoa... LIKELY KEEP UP?

no, dude. No.

saphojunkie
11-09-2012, 03:49 PM
I mean, you people realize that Shaq came into the league in the early 90's, right? I love how everyone thinks that somehow the 90's were the Paleolithic era with a bunch of 4 foot tall troglodytes shooting the ball underhanded.

There hasn't been a radical jump in human evolution in the past ten years. Yes, the guys now are bigger and stronger, but that's because they actually, you know, lift weights more. Put the 80's and 90's guys on a modern team with a modern training staff and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

DaneMcCloud
11-09-2012, 03:52 PM
I mean, you people realize that Shaq came into the league in the early 90's, right? I love how everyone thinks that somehow the 90's were the Paleolithic era with a bunch of 4 foot tall troglodytes shooting the ball underhanded.

There hasn't been a radical jump in human evolution in the past ten years. Yes, the guys now are bigger and stronger, but that's because they actually, you know, lift weights more. Put the 80's and 90's guys on a modern team with a modern training staff and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not about getting to the NBA with these bodies, most of these guy start that training in grade school (same as football players).

The only people that state that the NBA was "better" in the 80's and 90's are people that don't and haven't consistently watched basketball this millennium.

Shogun
11-09-2012, 04:07 PM
http://www.fa-mag.com/fa-news/12863-...b-impact-.html

November 08, 2012

ALAN ALDA REPLACING PHIL JACKSON AT SCHWAB IMPACT

In a last-minute development, actor Alan Alda will replace famed basketball coach Phil Jackson as the keynote speaker on the closing day of the annual Schwab Advisor Services IMPACT conference in Chicago next week, according to Bernie Clark, executive vice president, national sales manager of Schwab Advisor Services.

Alternative investments will be on the agenda when Chuck Schwab, founder of the nation’s largest RIA custodian, sits down on a panel with KKR co-founder George Roberts and managing director Scott Nuttall to discuss what role they can play in portfolios in what is expected to be a continued low interest-rate environment.

More than 3,000 financial professionals are expected to attend the event, which starts on November 13. The opening general session will feature a post-election discussion of Washington, D.C., and the outlook for the economy and financial markets led by Potomac Research Group’s Greg Valliere and Schwab’s chief investment strategist Liz Ann Sonders.

Other key topics at the conference next week include technology, the growing importance of female clients and developing the next generation of advisors, Clark said. All evidence indicates that female clients will account “for a huge number” of future clients, Clark noted, and several sessions will examine this subject in detail.

In addition, Clark said, there will be a focus on both developing the next generation of advisors and serving the next generation of clients. As RIAs continue to grow, there are more opportunities to bring in younger advisors, who can be pivotal in attracting younger clients. Schwab expects more than 50 students from universities like Texas Tech and the University of California at Irvine to attend the meeting.

Several sessions will focus on a related topic, succession planning. Moreoever, the conference will permit technology companies to display new capabilities and give advisors the chance to consult with “a growing ecosystem of support providers,” Clark noted.

dirk digler
11-09-2012, 04:13 PM
You're smoking crack.

NBA teams are LOADED with talent today that would destroy teams from the 80's and even 90's.

If you don't know this, it's clear that not only do you not watch the NBA on a regular basis, you don't attend the games, either.

USA basketball is stronger and more talented than it's ever been in history. Throw in the strong contingent of international players and you're looking at the most talented the league's ever been.

Yep.

dirk digler
11-09-2012, 04:18 PM
I mean, you people realize that Shaq came into the league in the early 90's, right? I love how everyone thinks that somehow the 90's were the Paleolithic era with a bunch of 4 foot tall troglodytes shooting the ball underhanded.

There hasn't been a radical jump in human evolution in the past ten years. Yes, the guys now are bigger and stronger, but that's because they actually, you know, lift weights more. Put the 80's and 90's guys on a modern team with a modern training staff and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Did the 90's have a 6-8 250 lb player that could play and dominate all 5 positions?

I love MJ, Pippen, Barkley, and Shaq but today's players are just bigger, faster, stronger, and more athletic. Just like the players in the NFL have evolved.

vailpass
11-09-2012, 04:33 PM
But that was before the dawn of satellite TV and 600 channels.

The NBA will never return to the ratings of the 80's but rights fees continue to ascend.

Basketball, like baseball, has too many games and too many teams to get the kind of ratings each did back in the 70's and 80's.

Personally, I think the game has improved both in the arena and on TV. Theses guys are just so ****ing big and so ****ing graceful in person. It's like they're a different species of human beings, altogether.

Seriously.

Good points, I'll defer to what I assume is your industry knowledge on the workings of the ratings.

What I do know is that I don't see any kids in any of my 3 boy's circles wearing NBA jerseys anymore, no posters of NBA players on their walls, they don't talk about the games or even care about going to them.

I'm glad you enjoy today's NBA. I get nothing from it. And I used to love the NBA. Would sneak downstairs past my bedtime to watch playoffs when I was a kid. For me the game has lost it's toughness, lost it's credibility, lost it's mystic. Now it's just a bunch of grunts running up and down for a few months until playoffs start.

tk13
11-09-2012, 04:42 PM
I actually agree that people underrate the talent in the NBA today... there's some great players and teams out there.

Still, on the flipside, people act like George Mikan played in the 90s or something. There isn't a guy in the league that could guard 1994 Shaq. David Robinson was a tremendous athlete. Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, etc... it goes back to the Dream Team arguments this summer. Maybe the current team would win, but not because they played 1950s basketball in the 90s.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
11-09-2012, 04:51 PM
What I do know is that I don't see any kids in any of my 3 boy's circles wearing NBA jerseys anymore, no posters of NBA players on their walls, they don't talk about the games or even care about going to them.

Without sounding racist (which these comment will, undoubtedly), there aren't many examples out there for white youths to follow.

Chris Anderson? The Gasol brothers, both whom look white but are Spaniards? Kirk Heinrich?

Add to that, there's no one in the NBA with Michael Jordan's personality. Even with LeBron playing his ass off like Kobe before him, these guys just really don't cross the racial barrier like Jordan. He was special.

Furthermore, there isn't one white basketball player that's on the same exact level as Howard, Kobe or James. Back in the 80's, it was Bird versus Magic and Bird versus Jordan. Today, it's Kobe versus LeBron and it just doesn't have the same appeal to white Americans.

I'm glad you enjoy today's NBA. I get nothing from it. And I used to love the NBA. Would sneak downstairs past my bedtime to watch playoffs when I was a kid. For me the game has lost it's toughness, lost it's credibility, lost it's mystic. Now it's just a bunch of grunts running up and down for a few months until playoffs start.

I agree to a degree. Most regular season games don't have much appeal to me unless I'm actually at the game. If it's on TV, it's cool and all and usually more fun to watch while I'm on the exercise bike or treadmill than "The Mentalist" on CBS or whatever, but it doesn't really get exciting until the playoffs. Baseball is like that for me as well. It's hard to watch the Dodgers on TV but if I'm at the stadium, I'm all in but the playoffs are where the real baseball magic begins for me. I rarely miss any game, regardless of team, once the MLB playoffs start.

I think it's because there are just too many regular season games in both MLB and the NBA.

mcaj22
11-09-2012, 05:08 PM
i get that the talent is better. but the markets are much worse. All the talent is playing together and dictating the power of each conference every offseason. It's now generation based, probably every 10 years it will take a team to load up on young players to keep them in the same circle so they want to play together. But you see the veterans want to play with vets, the guys in their late twenties (27 to 30) all want to play together, and the real young guys coming up are all building bonds.

But teams like the Magic, Wizards, Suns, etc. There isnt a good ****ing player on any of these markets. Face of your franchise is Michael Beasley? John Wall? JJ Reddick?

those guys are not good by any stretch when you are comparing guys in the 80s and 90s that were the face of a market.

vailpass
11-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Without sounding racist (which these comment will, undoubtedly), there aren't many examples out there for white youths to follow.

Chris Anderson? The Gasol brothers, both whom look white but are Spaniards? Kirk Heinrich?

Add to that, there's no one in the NBA with Michael Jordan's personality. Even with LeBron playing his ass off like Kobe before him, these guys just really don't cross the racial barrier like Jordan. He was special.

Furthermore, there isn't one white basketball player that's on the same exact level as Howard, Kobe or James. Back in the 80's, it was Bird versus Magic and Bird versus Jordan. Today, it's Kobe versus LeBron and it just doesn't have the same appeal to white Americans.



I agree to a degree. Most regular season games don't have much appeal to me unless I'm actually at the game. If it's on TV, it's cool and all and usually more fun to watch while I'm on the exercise bike or treadmill than "The Mentalist" on CBS or whatever, but it doesn't really get exciting until the playoffs. Baseball is like that for me as well. It's hard to watch the Dodgers on TV but if I'm at the stadium, I'm all in but the playoffs are where the real baseball magic begins for me. I rarely miss any game, regardless of team, once the MLB playoffs start.

I think it's because there are just too many regular season games in both MLB and the NBA.


Good points all. I would submit that I loved the showtime Lakers even thought they had no white stars and I was a white kid in the middle of Iowa where we had 0 black people in school, church, etc.

As a midwesterner I watched Magic and Greg Kelser play at Michigan State, Birdman at Indy State, and followed them to the NBA.
Even before that I dug the NBA. I had the George Gervin sitting on a block of ice poster on my wall (next to Farah Fawcett and her nips and Linda Ronstadt).

I will say that in the past two years I have liked the NBA more than I have since MJ retired thanks to the Thunder, Bulls, Pacers. Great ball movement, team D, no bullshit. Also have respect for the Spurs.

The Bad Guy
11-09-2012, 05:11 PM
You're smoking crack.

NBA teams are LOADED with talent today that would destroy teams from the 80's and even 90's.

If you don't know this, it's clear that not only do you not watch the NBA on a regular basis, you don't attend the games, either.

USA basketball is stronger and more talented than it's ever been in history. Throw in the strong contingent of international players and you're looking at the most talented the league's ever been.

Absolutely this.

DeezNutz
11-09-2012, 05:12 PM
Stan Van Gundy available.

Probably Qx10.

BWillie
11-09-2012, 05:15 PM
doesnt touch the 80s or 90s

there are some awful markets fielding some really bad teams of talent

It does actually.

-King-
11-09-2012, 05:27 PM
i get that the talent is better. but the markets are much worse. All the talent is playing together and dictating the power of each conference every offseason. It's now generation based, probably every 10 years it will take a team to load up on young players to keep them in the same circle so they want to play together. But you see the veterans want to play with vets, the guys in their late twenties (27 to 30) all want to play together, and the real young guys coming up are all building bonds.

But teams like the Magic, Wizards, Suns, etc. There isnt a good ****ing player on any of these markets. Face of your franchise is Michael Beasley? John Wall? JJ Reddick?

those guys are not good by any stretch when you are comparing guys in the 80s and 90s that were the face of a market.

How is that any different from the 80s and 90s? Back then, only the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons could win a title. All the other teams were SOL. Just like now with the Lakers, Heat, Thunder, and Celtics.

BWillie
11-09-2012, 05:44 PM
How is that any different from the 80s and 90s? Back then, only the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons could win a title. All the other teams were SOL. Just like now with the Lakers, Heat, Thunder, and Celtics.

Nothing is as good as it was in the good 'ole days. Don't cha know that?

scho63
11-09-2012, 05:54 PM
So Mike Brown got fired after just 5 games into a 82 game season with a 1-4 record.

To equate that to the Chiefs is that Romeo would have been fired at HALFTIME of the Chiefs FIRST GAME!!!!

HAHAHAHA

JASONSAUTO
11-09-2012, 05:58 PM
Absolutely this.

Yep
Posted via Mobile Device

Al Bundy
11-09-2012, 05:59 PM
The Detroit Pistons are what 90's basketball was.

stonedstooge
11-09-2012, 06:05 PM
Old dudes were pretty damn good too and played more as a team. Dr. J still has the most beautiful athletic dunks ever made in any time period, period.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 06:37 PM
How is that any different from the 80s and 90s? Back then, only the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons could win a title. All the other teams were SOL. Just like now with the Lakers, Heat, Thunder, and Celtics.

but there are other teams that are really good and could actually compete Memphis proved itthe last few years. Along with the Spurs, say what you want, but Pop has 4 titles and a very good team. When the bulls get D. Rose back, they are going to be up there. You got up and coming teams like New York/Brooklyn. Philly should be good once Bynum comes back. There are talented teams out there. Portland got some great young players as does Houston.

A few teams draft and get some good free agent signings they will be able to compete. NOt saying they will win, but alot of teams that could compete.

Also, remember a few years ago there were like 8 teams in the west that had 50 game winning teams, something never done before. NBA is crazy loaded.

-King-
11-09-2012, 06:39 PM
but there are other teams that are really good and could actually compete Memphis proved itthe last few years. Along with the Spurs, say what you want, but Pop has 4 titles and a very good team. When the bulls get D. Rose back, they are going to be up there. You got up and coming teams like New York/Brooklyn. Philly should be good once Bynum comes back. There are talented teams out there. Portland got some great young players as does Houston.

A few teams draft and get some good free agent signings they will be able to compete. NOt saying they will win, but alot of teams that could compete.

Also, remember a few years ago there were like 8 teams in the west that had 50 game winning teams, something never done before. NBA is crazy loaded.

I agree with you, but I meant the teams with a legit chance of winning the title. Outside the spurs, no other team is going to challenge the top 4.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 06:40 PM
So Mike Brown got fired after just 5 games into a 82 game season with a 1-4 record.

To equate that to the Chiefs is that Romeo would have been fired at HALFTIME of the Chiefs FIRST GAME!!!!

HAHAHAHA
its actually the 4th quarter. they had it on espn a bit ago.

When something isnt getting better they made the move. The Chiefs should do the same, they were supposed to be contenders and somehow they are the worst team in the NFL with some good talent in some key area's.

Clark needs to do the right thing. Chiefs in year 4 should be on the up and up instead they are 1 line jokes for every football personality in media.

Fruit Ninja
11-09-2012, 06:43 PM
I agree with you, but I meant the teams with a legit chance of winning the title. Outside the spurs, no other team is going to challenge the top 4.

Not this year, but them teams are young and have a chance to do that in the next few years. Thats like that pretty much for any league though. There are just elite franchises that do the right moves, then you got teams like the Chiefs and Bobcats that make the wrong choices year in and year out.

KC_Connection
11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
lol Mike Brown

I'm still not sure why they didn't get rid of him in the offseason.

KC_Connection
11-09-2012, 07:02 PM
How is that any different from the 80s and 90s? Back then, only the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons could win a title. All the other teams were SOL. Just like now with the Lakers, Heat, Thunder, and Celtics.
It is no different. Championships have always been controlled by a few select franchises. That certainly hasn't hurt the NBA game from being in as good shape as it has ever been right now.

-King-
11-09-2012, 07:23 PM
My penis is tingling...


Sources: Phil Jackson open to return
Updated: November 9, 2012, 7:30 PM ET
By Dave McMenamin | ESPNLosAngeles.com


Phil Jackson is open to returning to the NBA sidelines, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the Hall of Fame coach's thinking.

With the Los Angeles Lakers relieving Mike Brown of his coaching duties Friday morning due to a 1-4 start, Jackson could return to the Lakers for his third stint as coach of the league's glamour franchise if it wants him back.

More on the Brown firing

After two failed coaching hires, the pressure's on Lakers' VP Jim Buss to make the right choice, writes J.A. Adande. Story

A team built to contend is in turmoil and a roster full of superstars needs a coach. Who are the Lakers going to call? It better be Phil Jackson, writes Arash Markazi. Story

What's next for the Lakers? Good move or bad? Five ESPN.com NBA writers weigh in.


Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak told reporters Friday afternoon that the team's brain trust -- Kupchak along with Lakers owner Dr. Jerry Buss and executive vice president of player personnel Jim Buss -- already has put together a list of potential replacements for interim coach Bernie Bickerstaff. Among the "four or five" names on that short list is Jackson, according to a league source.

Jackson had not been contacted by the team as of Friday afternoon, however.

The all-time winningest head coach in NBA championship history with 11 titles to his name, Jackson has not coached since the 2010-11 season when he walked away from the game after the Lakers were swept out of the second round of the playoffs.

He took last season off to avoid the frustration associated with a lockout-shortened season and to improve his health. Jackson, 67, is "getting better and better," according to a source familiar with the rehabilitation process for Jackson, who underwent knee replacement surgery in March.

"He's been in tune with the Lakers' season and has kept an eye on the league," a source close to Jackson told ESPNLosAngeles.com.

Jackson's presence never has fully left the Lakers. He still frequently stops by the team's practice facility to visit his longtime girlfriend, Jeanie Buss. Kobe Bryant often quotes Jackson maxims during news conferences. Even Jackson's two elevated chairs -- one he used at home practices and one the team took on the road for away games -- are still propped up against a wall by the entrance to the training room at the practice facility.

Should Jackson return to the Lakers, league sources feel he would be interested in bringing along an assistant coach or associate head coach that he could groom to be his successor. Jackson feels like he owes much of his success to his longtime consultant Tex Winter, the architect of the Triangle offense, and he would like to pay it forward to another young coach. When Jackson spoke to Portland and Orlando about their head coaching vacancies this past offseason, a mentor arrangement was discussed in both situations, according to a source familiar with the negotiations.

The Lakers' coaching search is expected to be a swift one.

"It's not going to be a long process; that's for damn sure," a source told ESPNLosAngeles.com. "But they're going to do their due diligence."

Added Kupchak: "The sooner the better. We don't have a timetable, quite frankly, because this happened so quickly."

Although Jackson values the process of going through a full training camp when taking over a team, a source close to the coach said that could be mitigated with this current Lakers' group because Jackson would be joining it with pre-existing familiarity with the roster, namely Bryant, Pau Gasol and Metta World Peace, whom he coached to a championship in 2010.

Jackson is in Los Angeles and was seen sporting a mustache, the same look he went with when the Lakers first hired him in 1999, at a recent dinner.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8612254/phil-jackson-open-nba-coaching-return-sources-say

Dwight Howard has told the Los Angeles Lakers he wants them to bring back Phil Jackson as coach,’ a source close to the team tells SheridanHoops.com.

(Jerry) Buss’ son, Jim, is expected to be the person who makes the ultimate decision on who the next coach will be, and the source who spoke to SheridanHoops made it clear that Buss is aware of Howard’s wishes. It remains unclear if Jackson would be interested, but he retains a close relationship with Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol — two of the players he coached in Los Angeles before leaving the team after the 2010-11 season.http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/11/09/source-dwight-howard-wants-phil-jackson/

tk13
11-09-2012, 07:31 PM
I want to say I can't believe that, but I can. One of these years the Lakers aren't going to be able to drag Jackson out of retirement for the 14th time to save them.

L.A. Chieffan
11-09-2012, 07:42 PM
I want to say I can't believe that, but I can. One of these years the Lakers aren't going to be able to drag Jackson out of retirement for the 14th time to save them.

Maybe Pat Riley will be available.

okcchief
11-09-2012, 08:46 PM
My feeling when I first heard this news is Phil is coming back. No way they make the move this early if its not him. I'm not sure if he can make it work. The starters don't seem to fit together and they have no bench. If anyone can make anything work is definitely the Zen Master though. Couldn't make a better hire.

The Bad Guy
11-09-2012, 09:26 PM
My feeling when I first heard this news is Phil is coming back. No way they make the move this early if its not him. I'm not sure if he can make it work. The starters don't seem to fit together and they have no bench. If anyone can make anything work is definitely the Zen Master though. Couldn't make a better hire.

See, I don't agree they have no bench.

Brown couldn't use the bench to save his life. He buried the only shooter he had for no real good reason in Meeks. Jamison needed more minutes. Hill isn't a bad big backup. The backup PG is a mess, but they have depth in some areas.

Brown's misuse was equally as criminal as his Princeton offense idea.

It's either going to be Phil or D'Antoni, but I have my doubts about MD. I think Phil's first year in LA, he had a lot more mismatched pieces with Glen Rice in the triangle than he would with this unit. Phil loves Howard as is evident every time he talks about him. Gasol can definitely play in it. The real question is Nash, but Phil's a smart enough guy to adjust things to make it work.

It'll be an interesting 48 hours. everything I've read says a coach will be hired far sooner than anyone realizes.

okcchief
11-09-2012, 09:32 PM
See, I don't agree they have no bench.

Brown couldn't use the bench to save his life. He buried the only shooter he had for no real good reason in Meeks. Jamison needed more minutes. Hill isn't a bad big backup. The backup PG is a mess, but they have depth in some areas.

Brown's misuse was equally as criminal as his Princeton offense idea.

It's either going to be Phil or D'Antoni, but I have my doubts about MD. I think Phil's first year in LA, he had a lot more mismatched pieces with Glen Rice in the triangle than he would with this unit. Phil loves Howard as is evident every time he talks about him. Gasol can definitely play in it. The real question is Nash, but Phil's a smart enough guy to adjust things to make it work.

It'll be an interesting 48 hours. everything I've read says a coach will be hired far sooner than anyone realizes.

You know more about the Lakers than I do so I trust your opinion. I have no doubts Jackson will get the max out of the team if the sources are correct.

If whoever takes this team deep in the playoffs Brown might be lucky to get a WNBA job.

No matter who they hire they are most likely better than Scott Brooks :(

okcchief
11-09-2012, 09:34 PM
I honestly think Phil agreed to take the job today. They'll probably announce it tomorrow.

KC_Connection
11-09-2012, 09:39 PM
Doubt the Lakers do this so quickly unless Phil was coming back, yeah.

The Bad Guy
11-09-2012, 11:00 PM
Reports are he's contacted Cleamons, Rambis about a return. Hamblen they say is staying retired.

okcchief
11-09-2012, 11:17 PM
If Phil wants it I can't imagine there would be a decision to be made.

ChiefsandO'sfan
11-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

As Lakers meet w/ Phil Jackson today, they've declined meetings w/ any other candidates, source says. "They're all in on Phil," source says.
Retw

BossChief
11-10-2012, 01:25 PM
Phil Jackson is about to get paid like Michael Jordan.

Man, wouldn't it be nice if the Chiefs cared about winning that much?

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 07:34 AM
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard
Lakers insist they chose D'Antoni over Phil. Say triangle offense similar to Princeton and would not have been good fit for roster.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Lakers have hired Mike D'Antoni, signing the former coach of the Suns and Knicks to a four-year contract.



ROFL

WhiteWhale
11-12-2012, 07:43 AM
I actually agree that people underrate the talent in the NBA today... there's some great players and teams out there.

Still, on the flipside, people act like George Mikan played in the 90s or something. There isn't a guy in the league that could guard 1994 Shaq. David Robinson was a tremendous athlete. Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, etc... it goes back to the Dream Team arguments this summer. Maybe the current team would win, but not because they played 1950s basketball in the 90s.
Posted via Mobile Device

Depends on where you look.

The current NBA guard talent is unreal. Especially at the point guard position, and largely because the NBA outlawed hand checking so Micheal Jordan could be even more dominant which has led to point guards becoming scorers.

Big men? Please. The big man talent in the NBA in 1994 would kill the current NBA. NBA had loads of great defensive big men in the 90's. Rik Smits would kick ass in today's NBA and he was just a solid/average big man. A guy like Hakeem would be unstoppable.

theelusiveeightrop
11-12-2012, 07:46 AM
Phil Jackson, after taking his 14th bong hit, had no comment.

Sure-Oz
11-12-2012, 07:49 AM
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard
Lakers insist they chose D'Antoni over Phil. Say triangle offense similar to Princeton and would not have been good fit for roster.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Lakers have hired Mike D'Antoni, signing the former coach of the Suns and Knicks to a four-year contract.



ROFL

They didn't open the vault to Jackson it sounds like...ouch

Sure-Oz
11-12-2012, 07:51 AM
Mike D'Antoni, and not Phil Jackson, will become the new coach of the Lakers, and has signed a four-year deal with the team.
Phil Jackson was "asking for the moon," according to Mike Bresnahan's tweet, and the Lakers have decided to go with D'Antoni instead. He has a storied history with Steve Nash and is a pick-and-roll master, which should mean big things for both Nash and Dwight Howard. This news is quite shocking, as only an hour ago it appeared that Jackson would be taking the reins. D'Antoni is coming off knee surgery, so it's still unclear as to when he will take over, but he's expected to join the team by the end of the week. The Lakers' brief coaching search is (mercifully) over. Nov 12 - 2:54 AM
Source: Mike Bresnahan on Twitter

okcchief
11-12-2012, 08:32 AM
I don't really understand the hire. Not a big D'Antoni fan at all. I guess we'll find out.

durtyrute
11-12-2012, 08:37 AM
They go from Phil, to Brown, to this fucking guy. Weren't his teams notorious for up tempo Offense mixed with horrendous D?

Brooklyn
11-12-2012, 08:38 AM
Coach Mike is a charlatan and a fool. Take it from me, I suffered through many years of him coaching my Knicks. Yes, how sad is it that one person has to be a fan of the Knicks and Chiefs? I'm a Mets fan too, so yeah, just a glutton for punishment.

Anyways, he has some plus individual defenders on this Lakers team, but his team D schemes are terrible. His timeout management and substitution patterns are also game killers. If you are a Lakers fan, one thing you will grow to hate is watching your team be up by at least a possession with a foul to give, and Mike telling the team specifically not to use it under any circumstance. He's the only coach I've ever seen who berated a player for not taking a three pointer. He'll also ride Nash into the ground as soon as possible. My bold prediction, 'Twan leads the NBA in three point attempts for hte month of December.

Any Lakers fan care to reunite Amare and Nash? I'll gladly send you that brokedick in exchange for Gasol.

Oh. another thing...this prick laughs at EVERYTHING. He never takes losses seriously, and constantly throws his players under the bus. No matter what the situation is and regardless of how bad a loss is, he will still have this smug smile and be cracking up about it in the press.

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 09:47 AM
I think when Phil demanded a cut of the franchise then things turned bad

KC native
11-12-2012, 10:14 AM
ROFL Fakers are going to suck until aD'antoni is fired.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 10:28 AM
They didn't open the vault to Jackson it sounds like...ouch

Kinda sounds like it.

Staples is going to sell out one way or the other, with or without a couple more titles. Meanwhile, Jackson was probably looking for about $10 million/season (which is still a cut from his prior $12 million salary).

Brown just took a deal at $4 million/season; almost cheap by today's standards.

It was a money thing, had to be. That or Little Buss just couldn't bring himself to go back to his daddy's pet coach (and there's a good chance of that as well).

In either event, not a wise decision at all.

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 10:38 AM
Kinda sounds like it.

Staples is going to sell out one way or the other, with or without a couple more titles. Meanwhile, Jackson was probably looking for about $10 million/season (which is still a cut from his prior $12 million salary).

Brown just took a deal at $4 million/season; almost cheap by today's standards.

It was a money thing, had to be. That or Little Buss just couldn't bring himself to go back to his daddy's pet coach (and there's a good chance of that as well).

In either event, not a wise decision at all.

He was asking for an ownership stake in the Lakers, that shit won't fly.

As much as I love Phil lets not forget how his last season ended here not two years ago.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 10:40 AM
He was asking for an ownership stake in the Lakers, that shit won't fly.

As much as I love Phil lets not forget how his last season ended here not two years ago.

Phil's done a hell of a lot more for the Lakers than Magic had done when they gave Magic his ownership share.

They gave it to Magic for no other reason than his status as a 'superfan' and former player.

If Magic deserved a share, so does Phil.

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 10:42 AM
Phil's done a hell of a lot more for the Lakers than Magic had done when they gave Magic his ownership share.

They gave it to Magic for no other reason than his status as a 'superfan' and former player.

If Magic deserved a share, so does Phil.

ROFL Did you just say Phil has done more for the Lakers than Magic?

vailpass
11-12-2012, 10:45 AM
They go from Phil, to Brown, to this ****ing guy. Weren't his teams notorious for up tempo Offense mixed with horrendous D?

Yep. I went to a few Suns games when D'toni was coach. Was like watching the Harlem Globetrotters without the confetti bucket.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 10:51 AM
Kinda sounds like it.

Staples is going to sell out one way or the other, with or without a couple more titles. Meanwhile, Jackson was probably looking for about $10 million/season (which is still a cut from his prior $12 million salary).

Brown just took a deal at $4 million/season; almost cheap by today's standards.

It was a money thing, had to be. That or Little Buss just couldn't bring himself to go back to his daddy's pet coach (and there's a good chance of that as well).

In either event, not a wise decision at all.

Could/would the new guys learn the triangle well enough in a single season to run it to a ring?

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 10:52 AM
Statistically D'antoni's teams have middle of the pack defenses. They're not as horrible as people like to think

vailpass
11-12-2012, 10:56 AM
Statistically D'antoni's teams have middle of the pack defenses. They're not as horrible as people like to think

:homer:

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Statistically D'antoni's teams have middle of the pack defenses. They're not as horrible as people like to think

D'Antoni coached team's league rank in opponent's PPG:
1998 Den 28th (of 29 teams)
2003 Phx 26th (of 29 teams)
2004 Phx 30th
2005 Phx 28th
2006 Phx 23rd
2007 Phx 25th
2008 NYK 28th
2009 NYK 28th
2010 NYK 28th

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 11:07 AM
D'Antoni coached team's league rank in opponent's PPG:
1998 Den 28th (of 29 teams)
2003 Phx 26th (of 29 teams)
2004 Phx 30th
2005 Phx 28th
2006 Phx 23rd
2007 Phx 25th
2008 NYK 28th
2009 NYK 28th
2010 NYK 28th

Most people don't even look at PPG anymore... do you still use RBIs as the determining factor on who is the best hitter in baseball?

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 11:17 AM
ROFL Did you just say Phil has done more for the Lakers than Magic?

Magic hasn't done shit for the Lakers since 1992.

The Lakers gave him his ownership interest well after that. They gave it to him as nothing more than a good will gesture. There was no additional consideration for it.

It's the Lakers that made the fool move of doling out ownership stakes for poops and grins. They set the precedent, they shouldn't be surprised when the guy that brought them 5 championships asks for a cut as well.

Phil's done far more for the franchise than the average Laker fan wants to admit and it's not at all unreasonable for him to demand a seat at the table in exchange for returning to the pressure cooker of LA.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Could/would the new guys learn the triangle well enough in a single season to run it to a ring?

Kobe, Pau and Artest know it well enough to be the major components to the flow of the offense. Nash is a genius, he'd have picked it up. The only question is Howard and frankly Howard is a good enough rebounder/garbage man that he'd be effective in any system. He's also proven to be a fairly adept passer. I think he'd have fit into the Tri exceptionally well and would've learned his role in it quickly enough.

I'd imagine the bench would really struggle with it, though. I'll concede that. They'd have a second unit with very little cohesion. They could really never take Kobe and Pau off the floor at the same time. If they did, they'd have to have Nash out there to just run some playground sets and try to keep the game close.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Most people don't even look at PPG anymore... do you still use RBIs as the determining factor on who is the best hitter in baseball?

Good point. D'toni's scheme is built around winning by scoring more, not by limiting opponent's score.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 11:24 AM
Kobe, Pau and Artest know it well enough to be the major components to the flow of the offense. Nash is a genius, he'd have picked it up. The only question is Howard and frankly Howard is a good enough rebounder/garbage man that he'd be effective in any system. He's also proven to be a fairly adept passer. I think he'd have fit into the Tri exceptionally well and would've learned his role in it quickly enough.

I'd imagine the bench would really struggle with it, though. I'll concede that. They'd have a second unit with very little cohesion. They could really never take Kobe and Pau off the floor at the same time. If they did, they'd have to have Nash out there to just run some playground sets and try to keep the game close.

Thanks. I watched Tex & Phil install the triangle with the Bulls and it did not happen overnight.
Without Tex, with two new starters, on a team that has only a year maybe two because of age, it just seems to me that the triangle is a better long term solution but D'toni fits a team with this small of a window better.
:shrug:

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 11:28 AM
You don't have to be a genius to learn the triangle but the triangle makes a pg irrelevant. We'd have arguably the best PG in the game the last 15 years standing around wishing he was in Toronto.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 11:33 AM
You don't have to be a genius to learn the triangle but the triangle makes a pg irrelevant. We'd have arguably the best PG in the game the last 15 years standing around wishing he was in Toronto.

I like Nash a lot, one of the only reasons I've watched any NBA for the last 10 years or so.
But he was a shell of his former self here in PHX the last 2 years. His back is almost gone.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 11:42 AM
You don't have to be a genius to learn the triangle but the triangle makes a pg irrelevant. We'd have arguably the best PG in the game the last 15 years standing around wishing he was in Toronto.

The Tri can make the PG irrelevant, but doesn't have to.

All you do is essentially use Kobe in a SF role, rather than have him bringing the ball up. If you have Nash as the primary facilitator in the tri, you'd have a very dangerous setup with Kobe in wings cutting without the ball.

The only reason PG was irrelevant under the Triangle as we know it, is we know it as being run by Kobe and Jordan; guys that dominated the ball. That offense would absolutely work well with Nash facilitating and Kobe flashing through the wings.

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 11:53 AM
The Tri can make the PG irrelevant, but doesn't have to.

All you do is essentially use Kobe in a SF role, rather than have him bringing the ball up. If you have Nash as the primary facilitator in the tri, you'd have a very dangerous setup with Kobe in wings cutting without the ball.

The only reason PG was irrelevant under the Triangle as we know it, is we know it as being run by Kobe and Jordan; guys that dominated the ball. That offense would absolutely work well with Nash facilitating and Kobe flashing through the wings.

That's not the triangle that's the Princeton which we just got rid of

Brooklyn
11-12-2012, 11:58 AM
Dwight will be garbage under Mike. His philosophy with the center is to be in position to get out on the fast break, not protect the rim. He'll keep him out on the wing chucking threes. That's how he likes his big men.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 12:04 PM
That's not the triangle that's the Princeton which we just got rid of

The Triangle takes many of the same principles of the Princeton and actually develops them.

The Tri is an evolutionary Princeton concept. It's what the Princeton should be but isn't (because slow, unathletic, part-time athletes were the guys that used it in the past).

It's a watered down triangle, so to speak. When you take the best athletes in the world, with nothing but basketball to do all day and have them run the Princeton, it's giving Wolfgang Puck the task of grilling hot dogs.

The Triangle, on the other hand, is a Filet. It can absolutely utilize the PG position if you have guys that believe in it. The Lakers didn't believe in the Princeton system because it was a massive step back for the holdovers. Moreover, it's easily diagnosed and defended. I'm not even convinced that the Lakers 'didn't get it'; I think it's just too easy a system for this level and it was exposed as such.

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 12:07 PM
When you take the best athletes in the world, with nothing but basketball to do all day and have them run the Princeton, it's giving Wolfgang Puck the task of grilling hot dogs.

Are we talking Hebrew National/Nathan's or Ball Park?

mcaj22
11-12-2012, 12:08 PM
You don't have to be a genius to learn the triangle but the triangle makes a pg irrelevant. We'd have arguably the best PG in the game the last 15 years standing around wishing he was in Toronto.

he has not been the best PG in the game the last 15 years

lol

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Dwight will be garbage under Mike. His philosophy with the center is to be in position to get out on the fast break, not protect the rim. He'll keep him out on the wing chucking threes. That's how he likes his big men.

Dwight Howard could also end up as Shawn Marion on Hulk juice.

Sure, there's a chance it goes poorly, I won't deny it. But it could also go extremely well. Anyone that claims to know either way is just guessing.

We've never seen D'Antoni use a guy with Howards athleticism.

And for the record, Stoudamire shot a total of 66 3-pointers in 364 games under D'Antoni (31 of them in Stoudamire's last year, when he was just being a petulant shit and chucking for giggles) while in PHX. Howard's going to be used in a substantially similar fashion, I would imagine. If you'll recall, Stoudamire was a force under the hoop for several years. Hell, Amare was even putting up 25 PPG in NY for a season when he was a shell of his PHX self.

Howard has more ability than Stoudamire ever did.

Dial it down a bit, sport. I feel like you're just something of a jilted Knicks fan at this point.

I think this is a mediocre hire at best, but only because the option was a much better one. Had Phil Jackson declined all interest in the Lakers, D'Antoni would have been seen as a nice replacement for Brown.

He's not Phil Jackson, but D'Antoni is still among the better basketball coaches out there.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Are we talking Hebrew National/Nathan's or Ball Park?

Great point.
Nathan's or bust at my house. HN will do in a pinch.

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 12:14 PM
he has not been the best PG in the game the last 15 years

lol

Ok ten years

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Are we talking Hebrew National/Nathan's or Ball Park?

The Princeton Offense?

That's Bar S shit right there.

I never understood why they decided it would be a good idea to take a simple, slow offense designed to maximize the talents of undersized white guys with limited time to learn it, and implement it in the NBA.

lcarus
11-12-2012, 12:17 PM
You know more about the Lakers than I do so I trust your opinion. I have no doubts Jackson will get the max out of the team if the sources are correct.

If whoever takes this team deep in the playoffs Brown might be lucky to get a WNBA job.

No matter who they hire they are most likely better than Scott Brooks :(

Brown will be an assistant coach somewhere like Minnesota or Milwaukee for the rest of his career.

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 12:18 PM
The Princeton Offense?

That's Bar S shit right there.

I never understood why they decided it would be a good idea to take a simple, slow offense designed to maximize the talents of undersized white guys with limited time to learn it, and implement it in the NBA.

So if you took Bar S hot dogs, but had Wolfgang Puck prepare them, would they be > or < than Nathan's hot dogs?

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 12:21 PM
Brown will be an assistant coach somewhere like Minnesota or Milwaukee for the rest of his career.

I'd take that gig.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 12:23 PM
So if you took Bar S hot dogs, but had Wolfgang Puck prepare them, would they be > or < than Nathan's hot dogs?

They would still be slow white guys taking 14 foot jumpers.

DaKCMan AP
11-12-2012, 12:25 PM
They would still be slow white guys taking 14 foot jumpers.

So definitely Nathan's or Hebrew National?

lcarus
11-12-2012, 12:26 PM
I'd take that gig.

Me too

lcarus
11-12-2012, 12:28 PM
So what I've heard is that Phil wants to come back for 10 million a season, but doesn't want to travel to coach away games? Would that include the playoffs? That seems like a pretty steep request, to not want to be there for half their games.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 01:50 PM
So what I've heard is that Phil wants to come back for 10 million a season, but doesn't want to travel to coach away games? Would that include the playoffs? That seems like a pretty steep request, to not want to be there for half their games.

I'd be a little wary of 'the reports' right now.

Guys like Steve Broussard are going to do everything they can to not look like idiots that jumped the gun. Now they're going to try to paint a narrative of Phil Jackson just wanting way too much and that's what submarined it.

There's no way Jackson refused to coach for any away games and there's most certainly no way he said he wouldn't coach playoff games. At worse he would've asked for the travel schedule he had when he had his hip surgery which still had him coaching 70(ish) games.

Beware Broussard and the rest that have some ass to cover right now.

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 01:51 PM
Here's a good article on the 'backlash' here:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/42551/mike-dantoni-may-be-second-best-but-he-can-lead-the-lakers

Shawn Marion, fiercely proud and a little defensive, was fond of telling reporters during the height of the Seven Seconds or Less Era in Phoenix that players made “genius” coaches like Mike D’Antoni look good.

Marion is obviously oversimplifying. Head coaches are hugely important, maybe third on the importance hierarchy in any franchise, behind only the owner and the franchise superstar (if one is present). There are a few reasons why Chicago will rank among the three or five best defensive teams this season and going forward, but Tom Thibodeau’s presence is probably the biggest factor.

But a coach can only work with the players on hand, and the Lakers’ roster brings some structural issues — largely outlined here — that were going to challenge whomever the team named as Mike Brown’s in-season replacement. In a shocking reversal, they’ve chosen D’Antoni’s spread pick-and-roll system over the triangle and Phil Jackson, whose salary demands and requests for broader organization control were apparently too much for the Buss family, per the Los Angeles Times and others. Inking D’Antoni to a three-year deal, with an option for a fourth season, may also be a signal that the Lakers believe his style is a better fit for the only pieces — Steve Nash and Dwight Howard — on the books beyond 2013-14, assuming the Lakers convince Howard to re-sign this summer on a max deal.

The other stars, Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol, are Jackson acolytes and Triangle wizards, and Jackson’s 11 rings stand as evidence he may have been the very best choice for the 2011-12 Lakers. If D’Antoni was a second choice, he stands as a very fine one. You know his history with Nash. Those Phoenix teams were not just great offensive squads; they were some of the very best in basketball history. D’Antoni and Kobe Bryant are tight dating to Bryant’s childhood years in Italy, where D’Antoni was an elite player, and now to D’Antoni’s work as a longtime Team USA assistant. Howard may be the most efficient pick-and-roll big man in the world, and the Lakers will now build their offense around Howard and perhaps the greatest pick-and-roll point guard in NBA history. That will drive Bryant into a secondary role, but he has already shown that he can thrive finding easier buckets as an off-ball cutter and post-up beast against weaker defenders. Pau Gasol will find his spots, because he’s Pau Gasol and that’s what he does — all while making everyone else around him better with his next-level passing.

D’Antoni is a very smart guy. He will adapt his offense to fit the personnel here; Phoenix remained an elite offensive team despite some pretty major roster shakeups, including the loss of Joe Johnson to free agency; the absence of Amar’e Stoudemire for essentially the entire 2005-06 season; and the presence of a paint-clogging Shaquille O’Neal in the last part of the 2007-08 season, when the Suns ranked no. 2 overall in points per possession and scored just as efficiently with O’Neal on the court as off.

There are challenges, obviously:

• Nash turns 39 in February and has a small fracture in the fibula of his left leg. D’Antoni’s entire offense is based around Nash’s combination of historically great shooting and play-making, and if Nash can’t be 90 percent of himself when the games really matter, D’Antoni will have to adjust accordingly. Bryant is a solid pick-and-roll ball handler who has long worked as the team’s best off-the-dribble creator, but he can’t replicate what Nash does. Steve Blake gets into the paint off the bounce once or twice a week. Chris Duhon could barely cross half court last year without throwing the ball to the other team, though he played well under D’Antoni in New York. Darius Morris is an almost total NBA unknown.

Again: D’Antoni is smart enough to adjust for any long-term Nash limitations, and any team with Gasol and Howard could build an effective inside-out offense in a pinch. But Nash’s health is paramount if the Lakers want a realistic shot at getting through at least three very tough playoff series — and perhaps four, depending on their seeding.

• The same spacing issues are still here. Bryant is an average 3-point shooter. Nobody pays any attention to Metta World Peace on the perimeter, even as Peace has built himself into a league-average 3-point shooter, especially from the corners. He’s too slow now to replicate the Marion role as a weak-side kickout option capable of catching a skip pass as the defense wanders from him, and then driving hard into the lane for a layup or floater. Gasol’s range extends nicely to 20 feet, but he needs time to set his feet from there, and he won’t do much for you standing behind the 3-point arc.

As I wrote Friday, Gasol is a center who for the last two years has been forced into a square-peg-round-hole fit alongside another low-post center. Lamar Odom is no longer around to space the floor and break up the two-center effect. It was never ideal that three of the team’s four best players rarely played together as result of the spacing issues Odom presented as a small forward, but his versatility allowed the Lakers to maximize what they had.

You can pack the paint on these Lakers. Nash is by far the best shooter on the team, and one reason the Princeton offense made some sense was the idea that the Lakers could benefit by using Nash away from the ball as a spot-up threat to whom defenders could not yield even a sliver of space. Nash will be on the ball all the time now, meaning the four defenders away from it won’t have to worry about a single elite long-distance shooter.

There are remedies. Bryant has long been one of the best cutters in the league, a fact that made his determination to ball-hog all the more irritating. Antawn Jamison, one of the only useful players on a thin bench, might work as a capable long-range shooting power forward alongside Howard, instead of in the weird small forward role in which Brown used him. World Peace is in great shape, cuts well, and, like Kobe, can do damage in the post against the right defenders. Gasol’s passing makes a cramped floor feel less cramped.

Jodie Meeks is also here, though Brown sort of forgot about him. Bryant has often slid to small forward, especially when both Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown were around and moderately productive; it would not be a surprise if D’Antoni took an extended look at a Nash/Meeks/Bryant/Gasol/Howard lineup.

But the roster is never going to be ideal, which is why Gasol trade rumors will never stop. D’Antoni’s system worked with everyone in Phoenix, but it worked best with Stoudemire as the lone inside force, diving to the rim in beautiful concert with Nash as shooters dotted the perimeter around them. D’Antoni has two inside-first bigs now and so-so outside shooting among his starters. This will be a challenge, but the Lakers should rank among the league’s 10 best offenses — as they do now — regardless of system. The talent is that good, and talent figures things out. But champions usually rank better than that, and they’ll need to find a top-five level of play on at least one side of the ball. Which brings us to:

• Defense. Spare me the nonsense that D’Antoni doesn’t coach defense, or that his Phoenix teams were terrible defensively. They ranked right around the league average in points allowed per possession during most of his tenure there. Our collective addiction to points per game and (declining) ignorance about pace made it appear the Suns were hemorrhaging points like the Warriors. They weren’t.

Nor were D’Antoni’s Knicks, at least the version that was actually trying to win games instead of engaging in a prolonged LeBron James roster tear-down. The Knicks ranked around ninth or 10th in points allowed per possession when D’Antoni resigned, and though they improved under the defense-first Mike Woodson, the absence of Stoudemire, and Carmelo Anthony’s sudden decision that earning $20 million meant he should actually try hard, had something to do with that improvement.

Please also spare me the dreck about how D’Antoni’s system “failed” in the playoffs or “can’t win” titles. Two conference finals berths in an ultracompetitive West is not a failure. The Suns suffered a disproportionate amount of bad luck in the postseason. Joe Johnson’s orbital fracture cost him the first two games of the 2005 conference finals. Stoudemire was out for the entirety of the 2006 postseason, and several other key guys, including Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas, were in street clothes for part of that run. The suspensions of Boris Diaw and Stoudemire for Game 5 of the conference semifinals against San Antonio in 2007 shifted the entire series.

Luck is a factor in every playoff run. So are injuries. You don’t have to go back even one year to realize that. You could also ask Jerry West about luck, health, and the difficulty of winning even one title despite a “clutch” reputation. The people who ignore luck, injuries, matchups, and a dozen other variables that help determine the league championship every season are the same people who said LeBron would never win one because of some internal weakness.

There are examples, too, of teams that won titles or nearly won them using the Phoenix model of fantastic offense and average defense. The 2010-11 Mavs blew the doors off everyone in the playoffs while allowing points at a league-average rate during their postseason run. That understates how good the Mavs were defensively, since they were top-10 in the regular season and faced some of the best scoring teams in the league during the small playoff sample size. The 1994-95 Rockets had a similar offense-first run, playing just good enough defense against four scoring machines.

But such runs are the exception. A top-10 defense is a borderline must-have for any team that wants the title. Even some of the very “worst” defensive teams to seriously contend for a ring or even win one — the 2001 Lakers, 1998 Jazz, and 1994 Rockets, for instance — turned mediocre regular-season defenses into stingy playoff juggernauts. Neil Paine’s essential research at Basketball-Reference has shown that an elite defense is slightly more important in winning a title than an elite offense, though both are crucial.

D’Antoni’s Phoenix way can work, but it is not ideal. The Heat were able to weather their own bad injury luck in part because, even without Chris Bosh, they could lean upon a very strong defense.

The idea that D’Antoni doesn’t coach defense is ridiculous. It’s all over Seven Seconds or Less, Jack McCallum’s must-read book about the 2005-06 Suns, and one conversation with the guy or a coach who has worked with him will reveal that D’Antoni talks a ton about defensive Xs and Os. He has a lot of ideas to guard Star Wing X, and he knows very well that Big Guy Y likes to spin baseline on post-ups.

But it isn’t his specialty, and he has never had a rock-solid system on which to fall back. He’s had a few assistants that specialized on that end; Marc Iavaroni helped in Phoenix, and Alvin Gentry brought some old-school “knock him on his ass” toughness. But neither brought anything close to Thibodeau-level tactical brilliance and fundamental soundness. It’s hard to imagine a coach from any really good defensive team saying what Gentry said before a 2006 conference finals game against Dallas (via McCallum’s book):

“I’ll be honest with you guys. If you asked me right now what we’re supposed to do if Jason Terry and somebody screen-and-roll, I wouldn’t know if we’re doubling, trapping, or doing nothing. I just think we’re getting too many things going on.”

D’Antoni is a tinkerer, but he’s not a defense-first guy, and he has lacked a systematic approach. He famously turned down a chance to hire Thibodeau in Phoenix as a defensive specialist.

Of course, he’ll now have Howard, the very best defensive player in the league when healthy. That may be all it takes; how good might Phoenix’s average defensive teams have been with Howard in Stoudemire’s place?

We’re going to find out as the latest Lakers’ mini-season — D’Antoni without Nash — begins shortly. Nash’s return will mark the start of another season in what promises to be a drama-filled campaign. D’Antoni, at least, is used to drama.

Again, D'Antoni may not be Jackson, but he's still a good coach and clearly the 2nd best option available. He could really do well with this team, especially with a guy like Howard that is essentially Stoudamire's equal offensively with a far higher level of commitment to the defensive side of the spectrum.

Give the hire some time. It's not Jackson, but it's still a good get.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 01:51 PM
I'd be a little wary of 'the reports' right now.

Guys like Steve Broussard are going to do everything they can to not look like idiots that jumped the gun. Now they're going to try to paint a narrative of Phil Jackson just wanting way too much and that's what submarined it.

There's no way Jackson refused to coach for any away games and there's most certainly no way he said he wouldn't coach playoff games. At worse he would've asked for the travel schedule he had when he had his hip surgery which still had him coaching 70(ish) games.

Beware Broussard and the rest that have some ass to cover right now.

LA Reporter chick on Dan Patrick Show today said it's all smoke to get LA fan not to give the Lakers heat for not picking up Phil, that in fact Lakers never got to the money talking phase with Phil and wanted D'toni as the better short-term option.

-King-
11-12-2012, 02:19 PM
ESPN said that Phil was very shocked when he learned D'Antoni got the job.


I'd say it's half and half Phil asking for a lot and Jim Buss trying to distance himself from Phil.

I actually don't mind D'Antoni. We have enough defensive talent that we should be decent, and he'll make Nash/Howard/Pau shine in the pick and roll.

MotherfuckerJones
11-12-2012, 02:57 PM
Lakers are very stupid hahah!! Im a long time bulls fan. Should've never let Phil leave. Do whatever it took to keep him. D'Antoni's system wont win a championship. Phil has what 10?

L.A. Chieffan
11-12-2012, 03:10 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--lakers-resist-phil-jackson-s-power-grab-11051709.html

Good woj article, Phil didn't just ask for every damn thing under the sun he wanted to embarrass Buss too

DJ's left nut
11-12-2012, 03:51 PM
Again, I'd take absolutely everything that's coming out right now with a huge grain of salt.

There are a lot of very powerful, well connected people that are going to try to save face both as parties and as 3rd parties (reporters, etc...).

I'd say that the best you're going to get in any article here is a half truth.

Bottom line: The Lakers got a good coach that isn't quite as good as Jackson but is a HELL of a lot better than Brown. Hell, he's better than Spoelstra. This is ultimately a positive development when all is said and done for the Lakers.

Simply Red
11-14-2012, 01:06 AM
Statistically D'antoni's teams have middle of the pack defenses. They're not as horrible as people like to think



I think he'll do well there.

Simply Red
11-14-2012, 01:17 AM
Dantoni is dope.

Fruit Ninja
11-14-2012, 02:43 AM
i already got my D'Antoni pringles avatar ready to go. haha