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View Full Version : General Politics Obama wins Florida ......... finally.


Mr. Laz
11-10-2012, 06:47 PM
FL Election Results 2012: Barack Obama Defeats Mitt Romney
By TAMARA LUSH 11/10/12 01:34 PM ET http://i.huffpost.com/gen/857163/thumbs/s-FL-ELECTION-RESULTS-2012-large.jpg?4 U.S. President Barack Obama addresses a crowd of supporters on stage on election night November 6, 2012 in Chicago, Illinois. (JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images)
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — President Barack Obama was declared the winner of Florida's 29 electoral votes Saturday, ending a four-day count with a razor-thin margin that narrowly avoided an automatic recount that would have brought back memories of 2000.
No matter the outcome, Obama had already clinched re-election and now has 332 electoral votes to Romney's 206.
The Florida Secretary of State's Office said that with almost 100 percent of the vote counted, Obama led Republican challenger Mitt Romney 50 percent to 49.1 percent, a difference of about 74,000 votes. That was over the half-percent margin where a computer recount would have been automatically ordered unless Romney had waived it.
There is a Nov. 16 deadline for overseas and military ballots, but under Florida law, recounts are based on Saturday's results. Only a handful of overseas and military ballots are believed to remain outstanding.
It's normal for election supervisors in Florida and other states to spend days after any election counting absentee, provisional, military and overseas ballots. Usually, though, the election has already been called on election night or soon after because the winner's margin is beyond reach.
"Florida has spoken loudly in support of moving our nation forward," Ashley Walker, the Obama campaign's director for Florida, said in a news release. She added that the win was a testament to the campaign's volunteers and staff.
When reached by phone Saturday, Mitt Romney's communications director Gail Gitcho said the campaign had no comment.
Obama's win came in part from heavy support from black, Hispanic and younger voters. Exit polls conducted for The Associated Press showed Obama was favored by more than 9 of 10 black voters and 3 of 5 Hispanic voters in Florida. The president also was the choice of two-thirds of voters under age 30.
Republican challenger Mitt Romney led among both white and older voters.

In the end, the facts of who voted for which candidate in Florida faded into memory as voting issues emerged election night.
On election night this year, it was difficult for officials – and the media – to call the presidential race here, in part because the margin was so close and the voting stretched into the evening.
In Miami-Dade, for instance, so many people were in line at 7 p.m. in certain precincts that some people didn't vote until after midnight.
The hours-long wait at the polls in some areas, a lengthy ballot and the fact that Gov. Rick Scott refused to extend early voting hours has led some to criticize Florida's voting process. Some officials have vowed to investigate why there were problems at the polls and how that led to a lengthy vote count.
If there had been a recount, it would not be as difficult as the lengthy one in 2000. The state no longer uses punch-card ballots, which became known for their hanging chads. All 67 counties now use optical scan ballots where voters mark their selections manually.
Republican George W. Bush won the 2000 contest after the Supreme Court declared him the winner over Democrat Al Gore by a scant 537 votes.
The win gave Obama victories in eight of the nine swing states, losing only North Carolina. In addition to Florida, he won Ohio, Iowa, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Virginia, Colorado and Nevada.
___

alnorth
11-10-2012, 06:50 PM
You guys will have to just believe me, or not, because I didn't post it, but I called 332 electoral votes for Obama. I felt good about 303, but just wasn't sure about Florida, and finally settled on thinking Obama would win that, too.

greg63
11-10-2012, 06:50 PM
No Way! :p

Bowser
11-10-2012, 06:50 PM
You guys will have to just believe me, or not, because I didn't post it, but I called 332 electoral votes for Obama. I felt good about 303, but just wasn't sure about Florida, and finally settled on thinking Obama would win that, too.

You. Me. Vegas. Boom.

alnorth
11-10-2012, 07:10 PM
You. Me. Vegas. Boom.

It gets better. I actually, for real and not joking, called every F'ing senate race. WI, VA, MT, and ND were all tough, but I decided it would be a total wipeout and called them all blue.

First time I had ever called the senate, presuming Arizona stays red.

Direckshun
11-10-2012, 07:15 PM
How'd you call the house, while we're at it.

Brock
11-10-2012, 07:25 PM
this means he's king for life, right? I'm so worried!

alnorth
11-10-2012, 07:28 PM
How'd you call the house, while we're at it.

D+10.

Gonna miss that one by a couple seats, looks like.

alnorth
11-10-2012, 07:30 PM
For a lot of people, this election was either mildly or greatly shocking. For me, it was so spooky how everything was falling into place that I bought a powerball ticket the day after the election. (I didn't win)

Direckshun
11-10-2012, 07:38 PM
You gotta stick around another four years, al. We're gonna need your prowess in 2016.

DaFace
11-10-2012, 07:39 PM
You guys will have to just believe me, or not, because I didn't post it, but I called 332 electoral votes for Obama. I felt good about 303, but just wasn't sure about Florida, and finally settled on thinking Obama would win that, too.

Before or after looking at 538? ;)

alnorth
11-10-2012, 07:47 PM
Before or after looking at 538? ;)

Yeah, you got me. After.

My house pick was also assisted by one of the other nerdy modelers who gave a range of house possibilities, and I picked on the high end on that.

Though, that wasn't a lot of help for the senate, 538 stubbornly thought that MT was a tossup and that the GOP led ND due to thin polling. The pollsters just presumed those wouldnt be competitive and didnt poll them as often as they should, and I went with my gut on those two.

alnorth
11-10-2012, 07:50 PM
You gotta stick around another four years, al. We're gonna need your prowess in 2016.

2016 should be easy for your side. The senate lines up nicely and even more millennials will be eligible to vote. I also give it even money that the GOP will idiotically decide they werent conservative enough, toss out Christie, and double down on stupid.

If I were you, I'd be praying on 2014. Dem turnout falls on off-year elections, and that one is going to be a really rough year where the Dems have to defend in a lot of red states.

Direckshun
11-10-2012, 07:51 PM
2016 should be easy for your side. The senate lines up nicely and even more millennials will be eligible to vote. I also give it even money that the GOP will idiotically decide they werent conservative enough, toss out Christie, and double down on stupid.

If I were you, I'd be praying on 2014. Dem turnout falls on off-year elections, and that one is going to be a really rough year where the Dems have to defend in a lot of red states.

I think unemployment's going to drop like a rock that year.

Edit: So long as we're projecting, I think that's the story the Democrats campaign on. In addition to that, Obamacare will be officially implemented that year. While it will be too early for any projections about how it's turning out (I think it will ultimately be fine), there will no doubt be some anecdotal evidence of somebody having a tragically hard time with it in some way that will be Drudge-headlined and Fox-promoted. So I think the GOP will try to shift focus from a sturdy recovery by highlighting these stories and making that their story.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 08:47 PM
Wow, what a big margin. Too bad, Obama lied about his Medicare cuts to seniors and said Romney would do that. Even journalist Bob Woodward, said it was “bad politics” to say so.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 08:50 PM
I think unemployment's going to drop like a rock that year.

ROFL


Coal company announces layoffs in response to Obama win
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/09/news/companies/coal-layoffs-obama/

Obama's fast implementation of regs by Obama didn't help. This is what America voted for.


Pennsylvania coal companies announce layoffs, blame Obama

"The escalating costs and uncertainty generated by recently advanced EPA regulations and interpretations have created a challenging business climate for the entire coal industry,” said PBS Coals Inc. "
http://washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-coal-companies-announce-layoffs-blame-obama/article/2502872#.UJ8gqIXyzss

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 08:54 PM
ROFL


Coal company announces layoffs in response to Obama win
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/09/news/companies/coal-layoffs-obama/

Obama's fast implementation of regs by Obama didn't help. This is what America voted for.


Pennsylvania coal companies announce layoffs, blame Obama

"The escalating costs and uncertainty generated by recently advanced EPA regulations and interpretations have created a challenging business climate for the entire coal industry,” said PBS Coals Inc. "
http://washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-coal-companies-announce-layoffs-blame-obama/article/2502872#.UJ8gqIXyzss

That is such a silly notion that I'm surprised even you believe it.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 08:55 PM
The following is a list of companies which have announced layoffs directly as a result of President Obama's re-election.

List of layoffs and closings:

Westinghouse -

Research in Motion Limited -

Lightyear Network Solutions -

• Providence Journal -

• Hawker Beechcraft -

• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -

• CVPH Medical Center -

• US Cellular -

• Momentive Performance Materials -

• Rocketdyne -

• Brake Parts -

• Vestas Wind Systems -

• Husqvarna -

• Center for Hospice New York -

• Bristol-Meyers -

• OCE North America -

• Darden Restaurants -

• United Blood Services Gulf

Various Offices which will be closing as a result of re-election:

Caterpillar Inc. will close its plant in Owatonna Minn.
Mount Pleasant’s Albrecht Sentry Foods
The Target store at Manassas Mall Va.
Millennium Academy in Wake Forest NC
Target Closing Kissimmee FL Location
The Andover Gift Shop in Andover MA
Grand Union Family Markets Closing Storrs Location CT
Movie Scene Milford Location NH
Update: TE Connectivity Closing Greensboro Plant – 620 Layoffs Expected
Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City
Kmart in Homer Glen
Fresh Market on Pine Street in Burlington
AGC Glass North America to permanently close its Blue Ridge Plant in Kingsport Tenn.
The Target store at Platte and Academy in Colorado Springs
The Roses store on Reynold Road in Winston-Salem NC
Meanders Kitchen losing its West Seattle location at 6032 California Ave
Bost Harley-Davidson at 46th Avenue North and Delaware Ave. in West Nashville TN
Townsend Booksellers in Oakland
The Kmart store in Parkway Plaza off University Drive in Durham NC – 79 Jobs Lost

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 08:58 PM
The following is a list of companies which have announced layoffs directly as a result of President Obama's re-election.

List of layoffs and closings:

Westinghouse -

Research in Motion Limited -

Lightyear Network Solutions -

• Providence Journal -

• Hawker Beechcraft -

• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -

• CVPH Medical Center -

• US Cellular -

• Momentive Performance Materials -

• Rocketdyne -

• Brake Parts -

• Vestas Wind Systems -

• Husqvarna -

• Center for Hospice New York -

• Bristol-Meyers -

• OCE North America -

• Darden Restaurants -

• United Blood Services Gulf

Various Offices which will be closing as a result of re-election:

Caterpillar Inc. will close its plant in Owatonna Minn.
Mount Pleasant’s Albrecht Sentry Foods
The Target store at Manassas Mall Va.
Millennium Academy in Wake Forest NC
Target Closing Kissimmee FL Location
The Andover Gift Shop in Andover MA
Grand Union Family Markets Closing Storrs Location CT
Movie Scene Milford Location NH
Update: TE Connectivity Closing Greensboro Plant – 620 Layoffs Expected
Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City
Kmart in Homer Glen
Fresh Market on Pine Street in Burlington
AGC Glass North America to permanently close its Blue Ridge Plant in Kingsport Tenn.
The Target store at Platte and Academy in Colorado Springs
The Roses store on Reynold Road in Winston-Salem NC
Meanders Kitchen losing its West Seattle location at 6032 California Ave
Bost Harley-Davidson at 46th Avenue North and Delaware Ave. in West Nashville TN
Townsend Booksellers in Oakland
The Kmart store in Parkway Plaza off University Drive in Durham NC – 79 Jobs Lost

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv42IsQmp8w?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv42IsQmp8w?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

NSFW, language

Pitt Gorilla
11-10-2012, 09:07 PM
Nate Silver, 538, entertainment, etc.

penchief
11-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Wow, what a big margin. Too bad, Obama lied about his Medicare cuts to seniors and said Romney would do that. Even journalist Bob Woodward, said it was “bad politics” to say so.

I understand it that they are not cuts in Medicare benefits. But rather cutting out payments to the corporate middleman. Which is something that I've advocated since the day the Bush prescription drug plan was implemented. It was nothing but a boondoggle for the insurance companies, HMOs, and pharmaceutical companies.

It ballooned the cost to the taxpayer while adding nothing to benefits. In fact, as time passed it ended up costing seniors more as premiums and co-pays increased while benefits shrank. The donut hole is an example of that.

So it's not really a cut in Medicare when all your doing is saving money without cutting benefits. That's fiscal responsibility.

Also, Ryan's budget called for the exact same dollar amount in cuts to Medicare. That is what the Obama campaign was referring to.

KC_Connection
11-10-2012, 09:20 PM
For a lot of people, this election was either mildly or greatly shocking. For me, it was so spooky how everything was falling into place that I bought a powerball ticket the day after the election. (I didn't win)
If you follow Nate Silver, it was more predictable than Kansas football losing each week.

cosmo20002
11-10-2012, 09:25 PM
The following is a list of companies which have announced layoffs directly as a result of President Obama's re-election.

List of layoffs and closings:


You've always been a bit "out there", but this is ultra-right wing nutjob kookiness. Where did you even get this? And all these places said, since Tues night, that they are announcing the layoffs "because of" the re-election? :BS:

Even if some did say that, which I doubt, it would simply be cover for their own failings.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 09:26 PM
So it's not really a cut in Medicare when all your doing is saving money without cutting benefits. That's fiscal responsibility.

Spin it however you want or how you bought it. It was really to fund his own healthcare plan with billions of dollars in Medicare cuts. He said he was trying to make ACA deficit neutral—another lie. It has $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Obamacare's price tag is almost double what Democrats said it would be over the first full decade of implementation and it does add to the deficit.

Once the elderly go into ACA, like all such HC systems, the elderly get denied care with the young going first. That's how they control costs—like any insurance company. Only the govt does it by age because that's when most use most of their healthcare.

Also, Ryan's budget called for the exact same dollar amount in cuts to Medicare. That is what the Obama campaign was referring to.

I have said this before about Ryan's plan...but by saying there really was no difference between the cuts between the two plans. Axelrod covered for Obama by lying about his cuts though. That was to win the elderly vote.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AK49WTpjYfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 09:28 PM
You've always been a bit "out there", but this is ultra-right wing nutjob kookiness. Where did you even get this? And all these places said, since Tues night, that they are announcing the layoffs "because of" the re-election? :BS:

Even if some did say that, which I doubt, it would simply be cover for their own failings.

So you have no argument to articulate, I see. Thank you for ceding the case.

Yeah, I forgot the link. It was to the examiner which links to another site. There's a handful that probably don't belong in there but weren't doing well during the Obama regime. One due to a merger. Or so someone has just told me.

http://www.examiner.com/article/scor...-s-re-election

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 09:29 PM
You've always been a bit "out there", but this is ultra-right wing nutjob kookiness. Where did you even get this? And all these places said, since Tues night, that they are announcing the layoffs "because of" the re-election? :BS:

Even if some did say that, which I doubt, it would simply be cover for their own failings.

Here's the one I found odd: Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City

and here's the story refuting kooky bitches assertion

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/07/3905676/gomers-fried-chicken-closing-on.html

cosmo20002
11-10-2012, 09:30 PM
So you have no argument to articulate, I see. Thank you for ceding the case.

Yeah, I forgot the link. It was to the examiner.

http://www.examiner.com/article/scor...-s-re-election

No, no argument. Simply saying this information is bullshit anyone who would believe it would have to be a nut.

Link doesn't work.

cosmo20002
11-10-2012, 09:33 PM
Here's the one I found odd: Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City

and here's the story refuting kooky bitches assertion

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/07/3905676/gomers-fried-chicken-closing-on.html

Wow, a real indictment of Obama there. You really have to read between the lines that don't mention Obama at all, but--oh, its in there.

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 09:33 PM
So you have no argument to articulate, I see. Thank you for ceding the case.

Yeah, I forgot the link. It was to the examiner which links to another site. There's a handful that probably don't belong in there but weren't doing well during the Obama regime. One due to a merger. Or so someone has just told me.

http://www.examiner.com/article/scor...-s-re-election

I'm not going line by line and refuting each one. However, I'm 1 for 1 and your link is some kind of hokie . You and shtsprayer hook up or what?

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 09:35 PM
Like I said, you can't articulate your case as to why. Thank you very much. But I am hearing talk of more layoffs on tv and about a guy going to layoff to keep his staff under a certain number to save increased costs of ACA.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-coal-companies-announce-layoffs-blame-obama/article/2502872#.UJ8gqIXyzss

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Wow, a real indictment of Obama there. You really have to read between the lines that don't mention Obama at all, but--oh, its in there.

apparantly Obama was too busy with this pesky election to negotiate Mills lease for him.

Fucking Obama.

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Like I said, you can't articulate your case as to why. Thank you very much. But I am hearing talk of more layoffs on tv and about a guy going to layoff to keep his staff under a certain number to save increased costs of ACA.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-coal-companies-announce-layoffs-blame-obama/article/2502872#.UJ8gqIXyzss

Your asking him to disprove a case that doesn't exist.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Murray Energy lays off 105 in Utah; Obama blamed (Video)

UtahAmerican Energy, Inc., a subsidiary of Murray Energy announced Thursday it is laying off 105 workers at the West Ridge Mine in East Carbon County and is blaming the re-election of President Barack Obama. The layoffs are effective immediately. The company also laid off 54 miners in Illinois on Wednesday, citing the same reason.

In a statement released Friday, Murray Energy CEO Robert Murray, one of republican candidate Mitt Romney’s most enthusiastic supporters said the layoffs are necessary due to the Obama administration’s “war on coal,” and policies designed to close “204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014.”

This company was named earlier but this text I think is better as to why.

cosmo20002
11-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Like I said, you can't articulate your case as to why. Thank you very much. But I am hearing talk of more layoffs on tv and about a guy going to layoff to keep his staff under a certain number to save increased costs of ACA.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-coal-companies-announce-layoffs-blame-obama/article/2502872#.UJ8gqIXyzss

Case as to why what? There's at least two assertions here--that these companies are laying off and it is BECAUSE OF Obama's re-election.

Part 1 may be true, but part 2 seems made up, and I think it is on you to substantiate it.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Case as to why what? There's at least two assertions here--that these companies are laying off and it is BECAUSE OF Obama's re-election.

Part 1 may be true, but part 2 seems made up, and I think it is on you to substantiate it.

You have the link. It's also date coincident. You're also making a claim they aren't.

cosmo20002
11-10-2012, 09:49 PM
You have the link. It's also date coincident. You're also making a claim they aren't.

Your link didn't work, but I did see the same story on Glen Beck's website, so that doesn't help the credibility. Diddy already debunked one of them right off.

And the coal companies weren't even on that list.

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 09:54 PM
Case as to why what? There's at least two assertions here--that these companies are laying off and it is BECAUSE OF Obama's re-election.

Part 1 may be true, but part 2 seems made up, and I think it is on you to substantiate it.

Some people you can't reason with.

BigRedChief
11-10-2012, 09:57 PM
You guys will have to just believe me, or not, because I didn't post it, but I called 332 electoral votes for Obama. I felt good about 303, but just wasn't sure about Florida, and finally settled on thinking Obama would win that, too.We had a thread for charity to post, why didn't you, it was free?

But, maybe you didn't post because you saw what happened to me when I just suggested that Florida was back in play.

Ebolapox
11-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Some people are batshit crazy.

fyp.

cdcox
11-10-2012, 10:09 PM
Market conditions favor natural gas right now. It's cleaner and cheaper. Utilities are managing the transition fine. Markets have losers and coal is currently a loser.

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 10:10 PM
fyp.

My name is Jeff Diddy and I approve of this message.

BucEyedPea
11-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Market conditions favor natural gas right now. It's cleaner and cheaper. Utilities are managing the transition fine. Markets have losers and coal is currently a loser.

It is true coal is being hit by natural gas. Still, Obama's regs have sped up the decline. I said this was a factor in my earlier post.
Nice way to help people transition easily. The market would have handled it more gradually.

J Diddy
11-10-2012, 10:15 PM
It is true coal is being hit by natural gas. Still, Obama's regs have sped up the decline.

Please feel free to provide proof of that correlation.

Just kidding, I know you won't.

cdcox
11-10-2012, 10:19 PM
It is true coal is being hit by natural gas. Still, Obama's regs have sped up the decline. I said this was a factor in my earlier post.
Nice way to help people transition easily. The market would have handled it more gradually.

US textile workers disagree.

cdcox
11-10-2012, 10:21 PM
Also, markets do not have mechanisms for dealing with things like pollution, so regulations are required to deal with that. Even with the billions that utilities have spent on pollution control equipment for coal fire-plants, it is still dirtier than cheaper NG.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-11-2012, 02:29 AM
Republicans:

"I built that!"

"It's YOUR fault I failed!"

Comrade Crapski
11-11-2012, 03:20 AM
Wow, what a big margin.

Not really. VA, PA, OH, and Fl were all decided by about 100,000 votes in each state.

And I'd say all of them were Mexicans on welfare.

Dave Lane
11-11-2012, 03:46 AM
Not really. VA, PA, OH, and Fl were all decided by about 100,000 votes in each state.

And I'd say all of them were Mexicans on welfare.

So do you hate black people or mexicans more? I always thought it was black people for you but maybe just people of color?

banyon
11-11-2012, 07:59 AM
Why can't these people get their sh*t together on election day? Their SOS should be run out of town on a rail.

penchief
11-11-2012, 08:01 AM
The following is a list of companies which have announced layoffs directly as a result of President Obama's re-election.

List of layoffs and closings:

Westinghouse -

Research in Motion Limited -

Lightyear Network Solutions -

• Providence Journal -

• Hawker Beechcraft -

• Boeing (30% of their management staff) -

• CVPH Medical Center -

• US Cellular -

• Momentive Performance Materials -

• Rocketdyne -

• Brake Parts -

• Vestas Wind Systems -

• Husqvarna -

• Center for Hospice New York -

• Bristol-Meyers -

• OCE North America -

• Darden Restaurants -

• United Blood Services Gulf

Various Offices which will be closing as a result of re-election:

Caterpillar Inc. will close its plant in Owatonna Minn.
Mount Pleasant’s Albrecht Sentry Foods
The Target store at Manassas Mall Va.
Millennium Academy in Wake Forest NC
Target Closing Kissimmee FL Location
The Andover Gift Shop in Andover MA
Grand Union Family Markets Closing Storrs Location CT
Movie Scene Milford Location NH
Update: TE Connectivity Closing Greensboro Plant – 620 Layoffs Expected
Gomer’s Fried Chicken in South Kansas City
Kmart in Homer Glen
Fresh Market on Pine Street in Burlington
AGC Glass North America to permanently close its Blue Ridge Plant in Kingsport Tenn.
The Target store at Platte and Academy in Colorado Springs
The Roses store on Reynold Road in Winston-Salem NC
Meanders Kitchen losing its West Seattle location at 6032 California Ave
Bost Harley-Davidson at 46th Avenue North and Delaware Ave. in West Nashville TN
Townsend Booksellers in Oakland
The Kmart store in Parkway Plaza off University Drive in Durham NC – 79 Jobs Lost

From what I'm hearing the business leaders themselves say, is that they are laying off because it is the prudent thing to do in the face of the "fiscal cliff." In fact, many say they are prepared to hire but are holding off until that uncertainty is resolved.

Wall Street is also signaling that stocks will be stagnant or down until an agreement is reached.

I'd hope that all those "fiscally responsible" republicans would finally end their obstructionism and do what is right for their country.

That said, you seem to be attributing these layoffs directly to the election of Obama when that is not really true. Just listen to what the business leaders themselves are saying.

banyon
11-11-2012, 08:02 AM
You have the link. It's also date coincident. You're also making a claim they aren't.

your link blamed existing epa policies, which no coal companies have ever liked. It did not blame Obama's re-election. And that's just one of the slew of companies you mentioned. Why don't you just post the original fringe link?

penchief
11-11-2012, 08:09 AM
Spin it however you want or how you bought it. It was really to fund his own healthcare plan with billions of dollars in Medicare cuts. He said he was trying to make ACA deficit neutral—another lie. It has $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Obamacare's price tag is almost double what Democrats said it would be over the first full decade of implementation and it does add to the deficit.

Once the elderly go into ACA, like all such HC systems, the elderly get denied care with the young going first. That's how they control costs—like any insurance company. Only the govt does it by age because that's when most use most of their healthcare.



I have said this before about Ryan's plan...but by saying there really was no difference between the cuts between the two plans. Axelrod covered for Obama by lying about his cuts though. That was to win the elderly vote.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AK49WTpjYfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Again, spin it however you want. But Medicare costs to the taxpayer have ballooned because of unnecessary payments to corporate middlemen to do a job that the goverment did much more efficiently. He'd be trimming back one of Bush's corporate welfare programs.

You seem to be contradicting your own ideological dogma. He wants to make Medicare more efficient and save the taxpayer money. You don't agree with that approach?

Brock
11-11-2012, 12:54 PM
Again, spin it however you want. But Medicare costs to the taxpayer have ballooned because of unnecessary payments to corporate middlemen to do a job that the goverment did much more efficiently. He'd be trimming back one of Bush's corporate welfare programs.

You seem to be contradicting your own ideological dogma. He wants to make Medicare more efficient and save the taxpayer money. You don't agree with that approach?

My wife's grandfather spent 3 days in the hospital after a fall last month. No surgery, nothing but a couple of tests and observation. 42,000 dollars. If this is the government's idea of controlling costs, we're in trouble.

Shaid
11-11-2012, 03:51 PM
It gets better. I actually, for real and not joking, called every F'ing senate race. WI, VA, MT, and ND were all tough, but I decided it would be a total wipeout and called them all blue.

First time I had ever called the senate, presuming Arizona stays red.

I was shocked at the ND one and I voted in it! There was a ton of money pumped in to support Berg and they played off the popularity of Hoeven talking about how the Hoeven/Berg partnership would be good for the state. Obviously it was a close one.

BucEyedPea
11-11-2012, 03:56 PM
My wife's grandfather spent 3 days in the hospital after a fall last month. No surgery, nothing but a couple of tests and observation. 42,000 dollars. If this is the government's idea of controlling costs, we're in trouble.

That's how it is currently. Denying care will bring that cost down.

BucEyedPea
11-11-2012, 03:59 PM
Again, spin it however you want. But Medicare costs to the taxpayer have ballooned because of unnecessary payments to corporate middlemen to do a job that the goverment did much more efficiently. He'd be trimming back one of Bush's corporate welfare programs.

I don't care who is getting the money. That's not my point. You're engaging in logical fallacies here.
The point is he cuts into Medicare to fund Obamacare. Ryan's plan cuts Medicare too. I read an independent source from both parties summary of this and it was nothing but a big Mediscare war. Suckers are born every minute and the elderly fell for it. It gets cut period. Ryan just voucherizes it more instead of using price controls (socialism) which actually would save it.

You seem to be contradicting your own ideological dogma. He wants to make Medicare more efficient and save the taxpayer money. You don't agree with that approach?

No you missed the point. It has nothing to do with my ideology. It's just the facts. Meanwhile your ideological dogma blinds you to the facts. I said nothing as to whether I agree with it or not. You're reading more into it than was posted.

BucEyedPea
11-11-2012, 04:05 PM
From what I'm hearing the business leaders themselves say, is that they are laying off because it is the prudent thing to do in the face of the "fiscal cliff." In fact, many say they are prepared to hire but are holding off until that uncertainty is resolved.

Wall Street is also signaling that stocks will be stagnant or down until an agreement is reached.

I'd hope that all those "fiscally responsible" republicans would finally end their obstructionism and do what is right for their country.

That said, you seem to be attributing these layoffs directly to the election of Obama when that is not really true. Just listen to what the business leaders themselves are saying.

It's not just the fiscal cliff. It's also the business uncertainty and Obamacare plays into that plus Obama's by pass of congress by using an EO for new EPA regulations on coal etc. Some are cutting to get under the employee size requirements on Obamcare. I always said, more bad times were coming no matter who won but Obamacare not being repealed and an anti-business president who rules by decree to get around congress will make things worse. Prepare for things to cost more and more taxes to burden individuals and businesses. I also predicted Europe would wash up on our shores about a year ago too. What the Fed has been doing would also contribute but not just to Obama but Mitt.

whoman69
11-11-2012, 10:28 PM
My wife's grandfather spent 3 days in the hospital after a fall last month. No surgery, nothing but a couple of tests and observation. 42,000 dollars. If this is the government's idea of controlling costs, we're in trouble.

You do realize most of Obamacare has yet to be implemented.

Brock
11-11-2012, 11:18 PM
You do realize most of Obamacare has yet to be implemented.

My post doesn't address Obamacare, except in the most oblique sense.

penchief
11-12-2012, 06:25 AM
My wife's grandfather spent 3 days in the hospital after a fall last month. No surgery, nothing but a couple of tests and observation. 42,000 dollars. If this is the government's idea of controlling costs, we're in trouble.

When there are middlemen involved in the process for no other reason that to get rich we are going to see costs skyrocket. Instead of just the elderly and disabled sucking off the taxpayer teet you now have HMOs, insurance companies, and pharmeceutical companies sucking of that teet via Medicare tax dollars.

This is what privatizing Medicare looks like...