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View Full Version : Chiefs LNBS: Why do people think this is a terrible QB class?


SNR
11-10-2012, 08:10 PM
Knowmo and FartBob have somehow done a good job of brainwashing this forum into thinking the Chiefs are doomed, and that they picked the worst season in the history of the NFL to finally tank for a franchise QB. I want to put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now.

The correct answer to the question, "Is there potentially a guy in 2013 we can draft who will be just what we need as a franchise to compete at the next level?" is still overwhelmingly yes. That was never even a question.

What gets people so down in the mouth is that scouts come out and say, "Boy, I don't see any Andrew Lucks this year, do you?" I think that gets people cycling through "What if?" scenarios over and over in their heads. Then they conclude that we picked the wrong year to tank like this, which causes them to equate Andrew Luck to the standard for all #1 overall QBs. Now I can agree that if we were to tank for a QB, last year was the year to do it. But that doesn't mean this QB class is absolute feces. Far from it. This is actually a pretty good class.

When I look at Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, and Tyler Wilson, I see three QBs who all have the following necessary characteristics for playing QB in the NFL:

1. Outstanding pocket presence and awareness. Extremely important. This quality is what can separate these guys from a Blaine Gabbert or another QB like that. All three of them demonstrate excellent maneuverability in the pocket and the ability to avoid sacks and extend plays. When under pressure, each guy keeps his eyes downfield. I think Geno Smith and Matt Barkley both have good ability to escape on the run if they need to. Wilson is a tad bit slow here, but within the pocket and rolling out, he's pretty crafty. Additionally, I don't see anything that would make me think any of these QBs would get rattled by pressure.

2. Arms that can make all the necessary throws. This especially applies to Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson, but reports of Matt Barkley's chicken leg armstrength are greatly overblown. They aren't the greatest, but they're above adequate. In this case, "good enough" is good enough.

3. Slingshot-like releases on their throws. Again, Smith and Wilson are at the top of the game here. Both QBs possess "plus" arms. However, Barkley's pedigree and technique on this throws give him a plus in this category as well. None of these QBs are going to have to work with throwing technicians to improve the speed and accuracy on their releases like so many QBs have to do when they enter the pros.

4. "Plus" brains. Each guy can work through his progressions and read defenses. That ability is there. It helps that each QB has worked out of a pro style offense at one point in their college careers (Smith has been running the Air Raid for two seasons, but worked from a pro set his first year as a starter). Additionally, each QB is extremely well-respected by his teammates and coaches. There are no Ryan Leafs or Matt Leinarts in the bunch. Each QB can be depended on to approach his job with 100% effort and heart as soon as he gets drafted.

5. Durability and size. None of them are Brock Osweilers, but they won't draw comparisons to Russell Wilson or Kellen Moore either. They have the necessary size. Each QB has also demonstrated that he can take a beating and still get up. There are no broke dicks like Croyle or Bradford.

And there you have it. The shit that scouts say about them, that all three of them occasionally make bad decisions and force throws can be pretty much ignored as far as the fans are concerned. They possess the skills and qualities that CAN NOT be taught. That's why it's so important for the Chiefs to go to the top of the first round for their next QB. A QB who is missing any one of these is at a huge disadvantage. Occasionally they can make it up (sometimes even with spectacular results) but usually they will end up struggling a lot.

Even if you're not convinced by my evaluations (and the evaluations of a ton of other quality football posters on this forum who agree with me on one or two of these guys), what is the alternative?

Here is where I'd like to show why FartRape and Knowmo are full of shit: We're in a position to get a great QB RIGHT NOW. How often does this happen? Sure, we might be a snake-bitten team for awhile like when we drafted in the top 5 for three straight years. After each year we were told that there were no good QBs available to us when we picked, and that selecting a franchise guy was bad news. We were going to be bad awhile, after all. Why do a rush job on picking the most important position on the field?

That QB never came. Even though we could have traded up with 5 million draft picks in 2008 or taken Sanchez/Freeman in 2009, none of those picks delighted anybody here or the dumbfucks in charge. And now look where we're at. We've got some top top quality DT talent, a supposedly once-in-a-lifetime S, and Matt Cassel. Still too risky?

We were in positions to take QBs back then. When you're a team like the Chiefs without ANY legit QB on the roster the truly risky option is NOT to take advantage of your spot. The greedy and truly risky route is to pass on that guy. It's to gamble on not only future drafts and future QBs, but to also gamble that you'll be terrible enough to be in a position to draft those guys. One in the hand is worth two in the bush, folks, and the Chiefs this April will have their pick of one QB to put in their hand.

Choose the safe route. Choose one of these QBs. Fuck the haters. Fuck the unnamed scouts with the vague reports that don't say anything about the talent or skills of each guy.

Don't get greedy, and stop coveting Andrew Luck. We're in a great position to draft our first QB in the first round since 1983. It could be much worse. We could be looking at only Sam Bradford or any guy from 2011.

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:14 PM
They are not very good.

ChiefsandO'sfan
11-10-2012, 08:17 PM
All 3 will be better then what we have now.

Reerun_KC
11-10-2012, 08:18 PM
This is an average class. Typical players you see 95% of the time. Last years were once in a decade type draft.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-10-2012, 08:18 PM
Without knowing much about college football I'll say one is from USC, one has lost a few games lately and one is just meh in general.

Naturally this is the year we'll get the #1 pick.

Ultra Peanut
11-10-2012, 08:18 PM
I don't think it's terrible so much as it's lacking in A+++ WOULD DRAFT AGAIN potential superstar/Hall of Famer kind of QBs at the top.

But then, I don't follow the draft v closely these days so I may be totally wrong.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-10-2012, 08:18 PM
It's not a bad class. I remember some NFL personnel people trying to downplay Luck at this time last year to try and get him to drop out of the top spot. Every team but 5 is looking for a franchise QB. They will do and say anything at this point to get a shot at one.

threebag02
11-10-2012, 08:19 PM
It's a crapshoot and none of the candidates stand out. Mediocre talent is the pool you are fishing in. With a high pick you take the best motherfucker there is not reach for a turd. So we will see another LSU defensive lineman at our slot.

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:21 PM
I am not a truefan, and I believe in drafting a QB in the first round, BUT:



This draft will probably have QB's in the mid to late rounds that do just as well as any of the top 3 guys.


I fucking hate thinking it, too.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-10-2012, 08:22 PM
And scouts said Rodgers and Roethlisberger weren't gonna be franchise QBs.

Ebolapox
11-10-2012, 08:25 PM
'like'

RunKC
11-10-2012, 08:26 PM
They aren't bad players, they are just surrounded by shit, except WR for 2 of them, and it makes them look worse than they really are.

Barkley's team has no defense at all. They suck. Their OL is shaky too with Holmes out.

Geno's team has no defense, his OL and running game is struggling bad and his ST's sucks. ST's have given up 2 TD's the last 2 weeks for crying out loud.

Wilson has nothing. His 3 awesome receiving threats went pro last year and his coach is the worst thing to happen to that university, ever. His OL will get him hurt again, they are that bad.

Luck and RG3 at least had some help around them. These guys have jack shit.

Reerun_KC
11-10-2012, 08:26 PM
I am not a truefan, and I believe in drafting a QB in the first round, BUT:



This draft will probably have QB's in the mid to late rounds that do just as well as any of the top 3 guys.


I ****ing hate thinking it, too.

You pick the one you think is the best and stop being a waste of a franchise.. pick a fucking qb and stop being a bunch of.fucking pussys.

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:29 PM
You pick the one you think is the best and stop being a waste of a franchise.. pick a ****ing qb and stop being a bunch of.****ing pussys.

I agree.



We should pick one up in the mid and late rounds, too.

SNR
11-10-2012, 08:32 PM
I am not a truefan, and I believe in drafting a QB in the first round, BUT:



This draft will probably have QB's in the mid to late rounds that do just as well as any of the top 3 guys.


I fucking hate thinking it, too.

Like who? Who has demonstrated anything remotely comparable to anything the top 3 guys have accomplished.

The top 3 guys have flaws. Coachable flaws, but flaws. There are no Tim Tebows, and there are no Jay Cutlers with the million dollar arm but the two cent brain. Every guy has the bottom line skills to be a great starting QB in the NFL.

Fucking pick one and stop bitching.

Reerun_KC
11-10-2012, 08:32 PM
I agree.



We should pick one up in the mid and late rounds, too.

Yes this...

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:34 PM
Gentlemen, I have said time and time again that we should pick a QB in the first every year until we find the one.


I am just not impressed with what these three have shown. Doesn't mean we should pass, though. Pick one of them in the first, than pick another QB in the mid and late rounds.

milkman
11-10-2012, 08:34 PM
This is an average class. Typical players you see 95% of the time. Last years were once in a decade type draft.

So I guess we just have to wait another decade and hope we have the top of that draft.

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:36 PM
What is just as important as drafting one of these guys is getting a competent coaching staff that won't completely ruin him.


The current staff have the capacity to destroy a rookie Elway.

tredadda
11-10-2012, 08:41 PM
This class is viewed as "average" because it happens to follow up one of the best QB classes in quite a while. The last class had a QB viewed as the best prospect since Manning, if not Elway, and another who was a very, very small step below. It also had a QB who would have been a Top 10 if not Top 5 pick had he been 3-4 inches taller (Russell Wilson). Had this year's class followed almost any other, it would be held in much higher regard instead of where it is. People look at these QBs and want a Luck or RGIII and since this crop is not, they are "average". That is just not the case. This is actually a good class.

Reerun_KC
11-10-2012, 08:41 PM
So I guess we just have to wait another decade and hope we have the top of that draft.

Not.according to.post #13

SNR
11-10-2012, 08:42 PM
Gentlemen, I have said time and time again that we should pick a QB in the first every year until we find the one.


I am just not impressed with what these three have shown. Doesn't mean we should pass, though. Pick one of them in the first, than pick another QB in the mid and late rounds.

I get that, and I'm not going after you. I'm just asking you to go beyond your analysis rather than "I don't like these three guys. They haven't shown anything."

The truth is that all of them have shown plenty. They're head and shoulders above Jones and the rest of the slapdicks you'll find in 2nd round and beyond. So what is it about these top QBs that you don't like other than none of them are Andrew Luck?

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 08:43 PM
Like who?

Ryan Aplin - Arkansas St.
Tyler Wilson - Arkansas
Landry Jones - Oklahoma
E.J. Manuel - Florida St.
Brad Sorensen - Southern Utah
Matt Scott - Arizona
Collin Klein - Kansas St.
Mike Glennon - North Carolina St.
Dayne Crist - Kansas
Zac Dysert - Miami (OH)
Ryan Nassib - Syracuse
Sean Renfree - Duke
Alex Carder - Western Michigan
James Vandenberg - Iowa
Adam Kennedy - Utah St.
Jeff Tuel - Washington St.
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt
Ryan Katz- San Diego St.

I also know that Jared Lorenzen is a FA. You guys should bring him in for a look.

Hoover
11-10-2012, 08:46 PM
If Geno Smith was 8-1 or 7-2 everyone would say he's the best prospect ever.

SNR
11-10-2012, 08:49 PM
Are some of you saying that you'd rather have a majority of these QBs instead of Smith, Barkley, or Wilson:

Newton
Gabbert
Locker
Ponder
Bradford
Stafford
Sanchez
Ryan
Russell
Quinn
Young
Leinart
Cutler

These are QBs drafted in the top 15 since 2006 (with the addition of Brady Quinn because that was just fucking weird when he got passed so hard like that)

I see TWO guys that I like on the same level as this year's top 3: Stafford and Ryan. And you'll recall that neither QB looked pretty in his college career. Stafford was notorious for dumb decisions and gun-slinging the ball into places it didn't belong. Matt Ryan's big knock coming out of college was the fact that he threw so many goddamn interceptions. And look where both of them ended up.

And this is since 2006.

Still want to tell me this is a shit class of QBs?

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:50 PM
I get that, and I'm not going after you. I'm just asking you to go beyond your analysis rather than "I don't like these three guys. They haven't shown anything."

The truth is that all of them have shown plenty. They're head and shoulders above Jones and the rest of the slapdicks you'll find in 2nd round and beyond. So what is it about these top QBs that you don't like other than none of them are Andrew Luck?

Jones isn't a NFL QB, and any franchise that drafts him in any round should be disolved immediately.

With that said, Pioli is furiously masterbating at the thought of Cassel part deux.

SNR
11-10-2012, 08:51 PM
Ryan Aplin - Arkansas St.
Tyler Wilson - Arkansas
Landry Jones - Oklahoma
E.J. Manuel - Florida St.
Brad Sorensen - Southern Utah
Matt Scott - Arizona
Collin Klein - Kansas St.
Mike Glennon - North Carolina St.
Dayne Crist - Kansas
Zac Dysert - Miami (OH)
Ryan Nassib - Syracuse
Sean Renfree - Duke
Alex Carder - Western Michigan
James Vandenberg - Iowa
Adam Kennedy - Utah St.
Jeff Tuel - Washington St.
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt
Ryan Katz- San Diego St.

I also know that Jared Lorenzen is a FA. You guys should bring him in for a look.
Trollin trollin trollin... keep them posts a' trollin'
Trollin trollin trollin... Trollzooks!!!!

notorious
11-10-2012, 08:51 PM
Ryan Aplin - Arkansas St.
Tyler Wilson - Arkansas
Landry Jones - Oklahoma
E.J. Manuel - Florida St.
Brad Sorensen - Southern Utah
Matt Scott - Arizona
Collin Klein - Kansas St.
Mike Glennon - North Carolina St.
Dayne Crist - Kansas
Zac Dysert - Miami (OH)
Ryan Nassib - Syracuse
Sean Renfree - Duke
Alex Carder - Western Michigan
James Vandenberg - Iowa
Adam Kennedy - Utah St.
Jeff Tuel - Washington St.
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt
Ryan Katz- San Diego St.

I also know that Jared Lorenzen is a FA. You guys should bring him in for a look.

Holy shit. The Pilsbury Throw Boy is available?

Mr_Tomahawk
11-10-2012, 08:56 PM
If we take Wilson or Smith. I will be happy.

If we take Barkley or L. Jones. I will be sad.

That is how I will grade this draft...#neanderthal

ChiefsandO'sfan
11-10-2012, 09:01 PM
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt to bad he doesn't play like his older brother.

Mr_Tomahawk
11-10-2012, 09:03 PM
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt to bad he doesn't play like his older brother.

I'd pick him up mid-late round just because of the lineage.

Isn't he (if he hasn't already) on course to break a handful of Cutler's QB records there...?

AussieChiefsFan
11-10-2012, 09:05 PM
could be coming off of an amazing QB class last year

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 09:05 PM
Trollin trollin trollin... keep them posts a' trollin'
Trollin trollin trollin... Trollzooks!!!!

One more, but you'll like this:

Terrance Copper should be the Chiefs QB.
No other player on the Chiefs has the same skills, guts or heart.
He can be a leader of men, a beacon in the darkness.
The F.O has their heads are buried firmly in the sand. No one seems to see the light that shines from Copper's toothy grin.

Now is the time to restore what was once a middling franchise back to mediocrity.
Without faith in Terrance Copper there is no future...

Terrance Copper For QB
http://www6.indep.k12.mo.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Chiefs-Visit-010-300x225.jpg

SNR
11-10-2012, 09:08 PM
One more, but you'll like this:

Terrance Copper should be the Chiefs QB.
No other player on the Chiefs has the same skills, guts or heart.
He can be a leader of men, a beacon in the darkness.
The F.O has their heads are buried firmly in the sand. No one seems to see the light that shines from Copper's toothy grin.

Now is the time to restore what was once a middling franchise back to mediocrity.
Without faith in Terrance Copper there is no future...

Terrance Copper For QB
http://www6.indep.k12.mo.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Chiefs-Visit-010-300x225.jpg
Terrance Copper is a good man, but he's not the right man.

He's the right man to piss off all the dumbass fans who think Jeremy Horne and Ashlie Lelie can turn the corner and become star WRs if just given a chance.

okcchief
11-10-2012, 09:14 PM
It's not terrible. There are a lot of good options. The thing is last year there were 2 GREAT options

tk13
11-10-2012, 09:17 PM
I don't think it's that bad. Last year's group was a once in 10 years group, or more. It's far better than the Bradford/Tebow/Clausen class a couple years ago.

At the same time, I've seen people on this board compare guys like Geno Smith to RGIII or even Aaron Rodgers, which that really is insanity. So it works both ways.

SNR
11-10-2012, 09:30 PM
I don't think it's that bad. Last year's group was a once in 10 years group, or more. It's far better than the Bradford/Tebow/Clausen class a couple years ago.

At the same time, I've seen people on this board compare guys like Geno Smith to RGIII or even Aaron Rodgers, which that really is insanity. So it works both ways.

Comparison to the type of player =/= direct comparison TO the player

Russell Wilson plays like Drew Brees. However, Russell Wilson at the moment does not even REMOTELY sniff what Drew Brees has done in the NFL, and is nowhere close to the ability.

Geno Smith has the skill set of an Aaron Rodgers and tends to play the same way. For now, he's not as good as Aaron Rodgers, and most likely will never be as good as Aaron Rodgers.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 09:31 PM
Brad Sorensen looks like the next Roethlisbuger. We'll have to wait until the combine...

RunKC
11-10-2012, 09:34 PM
I think this class has a couple of potential gems in them too.

I think Aaron Murray is a guy people are underrating. Put him on the bench for a year or two and he could be a starting QB.

SNR
11-10-2012, 09:36 PM
I think this class has a couple of potential gems in them too.

I think Aaron Murray is a guy people are underrating. Put him on the bench for a year or two and he could be a starting QB.

Next year. There's a 0% chance that he or Tyler Bray enter the draft this year.

milkman
11-10-2012, 09:43 PM
Comparison to the type of player =/= direct comparison TO the player

Russell Wilson plays like Drew Brees. However, Russell Wilson at the moment does not even REMOTELY sniff what Drew Brees has done in the NFL, and is nowhere close to the ability.

Geno Smith has the skill set of an Aaron Rodgers and tends to play the same way. For now, he's not as good as Aaron Rodgers, and most likely will never be as good as Aaron Rodgers.

Thank you.

I was about to tell TK the same thing in a far less civil manner.

And I like TK, but stupidity is stupidity, even from otherwise intelligent people.

RunKC
11-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Next year. There's a 0% chance that he or Tyler Bray enter the draft this year.

I could see that happening. I could even see him going late first round this year too.

I agree with the thread though. This QB class looks much better than next years.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 09:45 PM
This QB class looks much better than next years.

But not as good as last years...

Ace Gunner
11-10-2012, 09:52 PM
"Barkley is big Ben & Geno is Warren Moon while Landry Jones is Aaron Rodgers"
http://www.recruiter.com/i/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Sales-Guy-400x600.jpg

Simply Red
11-10-2012, 09:53 PM
who is fartbob please?

tk13
11-10-2012, 09:54 PM
No way. I hate it how often QB's get compared to Aaron Rodgers. There isn't another Aaron Rodgers. No one has his skill set, besides maybe Stafford, and possibly Andrew Luck can get there. And even then comparing them is a stretch. It's not even a comparison... it's just throwing crap at a wall to make someone who you really like appear to look good.

tk13
11-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Thank you.

I was about to tell TK the same thing in a far less civil manner.

And I like TK, but stupidity is stupidity, even from otherwise intelligent people.

If you think Geno Smith in any way, shape or form is equal to Aaron Rodgers, you are nuts. He's amazingly accurate, no doubt... but the comparison ends there. There are few QB's on the planet that can fit the ball into the windows Aaron Rodgers can throw into.

RunKC
11-10-2012, 09:59 PM
But not as good as last years...

Because QB's from last year are the only QB's capable of winning a SB...

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:00 PM
No way. I hate it how often QB's get compared to Aaron Rodgers.

Iknorite? It happens like... almost never!

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Because QB's from last year are the only QB's capable of winning a SB...

You are correct...

tk13
11-10-2012, 10:02 PM
Iknorite? It happens like... almost never!

Once is too many times.

Ebolapox
11-10-2012, 10:03 PM
Once is too many times.

and it's funny cause aaron rodgers was compared to kyle boller.

milkman
11-10-2012, 10:04 PM
If you think Geno Smith in any way, shape or form is equal to Aaron Rodgers, you are nuts. He's amazingly accurate, no doubt... but the comparison ends there. There are few QB's on the planet that can fit the ball into the windows Aaron Rodgers can throw into.

Sure, because acuracy and arm strength are the only attributes that can be compared.

I mean, pocket awareness, mobility and the ability to keep their focus downfield while moving better than others are not other QB attributes.

RunKC
11-10-2012, 10:05 PM
You are correct...

That's what they said about the 2004 class. Where's your ring at bro? ROFL

RunKC
11-10-2012, 10:06 PM
Sure, because acuracy and arm strength are the only attributes that can be compared.

I mean, pocket awareness, mobility and the ability to keep their focus downfield while moving better than others are not other QB attributes.

I would also add Geno's ability to take care of the ball like Rodgers as well.

17 INT's in his 3 full seasons is incredible.

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:11 PM
Once is too many times.

People make these comparisons because it helps people further understand the kind of player they can be at the next level. Walter Football does this all the time.

Does it bother you that Matt Barkley is getting Matt Ryan comparisons? Or that people are talking about him in terms of Matt Ryan? There's my Russell Wilson example from earlier. Andrew Luck is John Elway. Landry Jones is apparently Matt Schaub. Jake Locker is Brett Favre.

It's not a measure of how good those players will be. It's a measure of how a player will fit into the league, and what he could resemble in terms of HOW he plays, not how WELL he plays.

You still don't seem to understand this point. Geno Smith is Aaron Rodgers because he has close to the same skills and similar weaknesses (not to mention the same coaching/system stigmas). He's not Aaron Rodgers because he's going to be just like Aaron Rodgers in every way, shape, and form. Nobody is saying that. Geno Smith COULD be just like that, but odds are he won't.

Do you understand this? Again, think Russell Wilson and Drew Brees if that helps you. There's a reason why it's Wilson -> Brees and not Wilson -> Roethlisberger

tk13
11-10-2012, 10:12 PM
If you want to compare him to a great QB, compare him to Brady. Smart, composed QB with a good arm and tremendous accuracy. I think that's a much better comparison than Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers arm strength allows him to do things other guys can't do.

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:12 PM
I lost it in your mom.

You should retrace your steps. Did you check in her anal cavity?

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:12 PM
If you want to compare him to a great QB, compare him to Brady. Smart, composed QB with a good arm and tremendous accuracy. I think that's a much better comparison than Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers arm strength allows him to do things other guys can't do.
Geno has a pretty fucking strong arm.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:13 PM
You should retrace your steps. Did you check in her anal cavity?

I never said that...

beach tribe
11-10-2012, 10:13 PM
No one has a damn clue what kind of pro these guys will turn out to be, but we damn sure better find out by selecting one. This is the first time I have ever said that a certain action taken by this team will make me turn my back, but this is that action. I will not put myself through another year of QBless football. It's pointless and hopeless, and theres no reason to watch when you already know the outcome.

Douche Baggins
11-10-2012, 10:14 PM
People thought last year's QB class wasn't that great either. Slowly but surely both RGIII and Luck solidified themselves as badasses.

People thought Flacco was a huge risk. Same with Aaron Rodgers, etc etc etc.

Just more excuses.

tk13
11-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Geno has a pretty ****ing strong arm.

Sure he does. I don't disagree. He's not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers arm strength allows him to do things even Brady and Manning couldn't do.

Simply Red
11-10-2012, 10:16 PM
I never said that...

http://tinyurl.com/2gx8gh

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:18 PM
Because I've watched all 3 and I don't think any right now are going to be franchise QBs in the NFL.

I could be completely wrong, but when you have the #1 pick in the draft, you have to hit a homerun with the pick. I don't see any homeruns.

Do the players make the throws? Yes. I'm looking for wow factor. Smith hasn't had a wow moment in about 5 weeks. Barkley had one last week.

Of course they are all better than what we have now. However, I'm not looking for better than what we have now. I'm looking for better than a majority of the league has. And I don't think any of them are that.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:19 PM
People thought last year's QB class wasn't that great either. Slowly but surely both RGIII and Luck solidified themselves as badasses.

People thought Flacco was a huge risk. Same with Aaron Rodgers, etc etc etc.

Just more excuses.

A ton of people thought last year's class was fantastic. That's just not true.

Those guys played flawless games numerous times during the year. I haven't seen too many flawless games from any of them.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:20 PM
I'm going to be honest here, I've watched almost all of Geno's games this year and I don't know what you guys are seeing. He's looked fantastic at times in games against competition he should be dominating. The last couple of games have to be a massive concern.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:21 PM
http://tinyurl.com/2gx8gh

Yeah I said it. but I must have lost it in her navel. Her vagina and anus were far too cavernous to loose anything in. Now that I think about it, she may have swallowed it.
She liked to swallow...

milkman
11-10-2012, 10:21 PM
Sure he does. I don't disagree. He's not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers arm strength allows him to do things even Brady and Manning couldn't do.

Smith's arm strength is better than Brady and Manning.

He falls somewhere between those two and the likes of Cutler and Rodgers.

I'd say his arm strength is most like Matt Ryan's, but the rest of his skillset resembles Rodgers.

RunKC
11-10-2012, 10:23 PM
Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers. weren't generational QB's. That means they suck ass, right? Ha

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:27 PM
Because I've watched all 3 and I don't think any right now are going to be franchise QBs in the NFL.

I could be completely wrong, but when you have the #1 pick in the draft, you have to hit a homerun with the pick. I don't see any homeruns.

Do the players make the throws? Yes. I'm looking for wow factor. Smith hasn't had a wow moment in about 5 weeks. Barkley had one last week.

Of course they are all better than what we have now. However, I'm not looking for better than what we have now. I'm looking for better than a majority of the league has. And I don't think any of them are that.
Why do you think the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round since 1983? I think only part of it is the people in charge never believed in the power of the franchise QB. The other half is that the Chiefs constantly underestimated the powers of the guys available to them in the draft.

If we pass on a QB this year, we're going to have to make damn sure we suck enough to draft a guy when the time is right. And that's no way to build a franchise.

If we draft one of these losers that you hate this year, they'll either sink or swim. If they swim, we've found our guy. If they sink, then we still suck and we can try again.

This has to be the approach from now on.

Romeo's Pants
11-10-2012, 10:30 PM
If you go on other internet forums you'll notice the average Chiefs fan thinks we're in a gloom and doom situation for drafting a QB. It's not uncommon to hear people say that there are no NFL-ready QBs in this class at all.

tk13
11-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Yeah, at this point I don't think I'd have a problem drafting Barkley or Smith. The NFL has watered down defense to the point that rookie QBs can succeed. I still don't think he's as good as RGIII or Luck but Tannehill has really done well, for instance. I think I'd take Smith or Barkley over Tannehill. Although to his credit, Tannehill fell into a situation where he has his college coach running his offense.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:32 PM
Why do you think the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round since 1983? I think only part of it is the people in charge never believed in the power of the franchise QB. The other half is that the Chiefs constantly underestimated the powers of the guys available to them in the draft.

If we pass on a QB this year, we're going to have to make damn sure we suck enough to draft a guy when the time is right. And that's no way to build a franchise.

If we draft one of these losers that you hate this year, they'll either sink or swim. If they swim, we've found our guy. If they sink, then we still suck and we can try again.

This has to be the approach from now on.

In no way am I saying we pass on the QB in round 1 this year. What I'm saying is that I really have very little expectation for the player. We can talk these guys up until we are blue in the face, but they all have very large flags and concerns attached.

You absolutely take the chance though.

Romeo's Pants
11-10-2012, 10:32 PM
Why do you think the Chiefs haven't drafted a QB in the first round since 1983? I think only part of it is the people in charge never believed in the power of the franchise QB. The other half is that the Chiefs constantly underestimated the powers of the guys available to them in the draft.

If we pass on a QB this year, we're going to have to make damn sure we suck enough to draft a guy when the time is right. And that's no way to build a franchise.

If we draft one of these losers that you hate this year, they'll either sink or swim. If they swim, we've found our guy. If they sink, then we still suck and we can try again.

This has to be the approach from now on.

Yeah. And it has been pointed out... Jim Kelly, John Elway, and Dan Marino all came out of the first round that year, and KC picked... Todd Blackledge.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:33 PM
Yeah, at this point I don't think I'd have a problem drafting Barkley or Smith. The NFL has watered down defense to the point that rookie QBs can succeed. I still don't think he's as good as RGIII or Luck but Tannehill has really done well, for instance. I think I'd take Smith or Barkley over Tannehill. Although to his credit, Tannehill fell into a situation where he has his college coach running his offense.

None of them are RGIII, and the Tannehill comparison is valid. I hated Tannehill last year so I may be the one who's wrong about this crop.

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:34 PM
they all have very large flags and concerns attached.

Ehhhh...

Sorter
11-10-2012, 10:36 PM
Smith's arm strength is better than Brady and Manning.

He falls somewhere between those two and the likes of Cutler and Rodgers.

I'd say his arm strength is most like Matt Ryan's, but the rest of his skillset resembles Rodgers.

IDK about that. Tom has worked pretty hard in the weight room and has elite level arm-strength now, IMO due to that and his mechanics. Pure arm, sure Geno wins. Tom right now throw can drive the ball anywhere on the field accurately.

Tom's throw to Randy the last drive of the 2007-08 SB traveled nearly 70+yds accurately.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:38 PM
If we draft one of these losers that you hate this year, they'll either sink or swim. If they swim, we've found our guy. If they sink, then we still suck and we can try again.

This has to be the approach from now on.

With the time you'll be required to commit to a highly drafted QB, if he sinks, the franchise will be set back at least 6 years.
I speak from experience. I've lived through the Ryan Leaf years.
If he swims you'll still likely have to wait a few years to get everything together.

It's safer to draft a WR #1 overall and go with Stanzi.

Douche Baggins
11-10-2012, 10:39 PM
A ton of people thought last year's class was fantastic. That's just not true.

Those guys played flawless games numerous times during the year. I haven't seen too many flawless games from any of them.

During the season people were doubting both Luck and RGIII quite a bit.

By draft day it all vanished.

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:39 PM
With the time you'll be required to commit to a highly drafted QB, if he sinks, the franchise will be set back at least 6 years.
I speak from experience. I've lived through the Ryan Leaf years.
If he swims you'll still likely have to wait a few years to get everything together.

It's safer to draft a WR #1 overall and go with Stanzi.
You stop that right now or I'm going to bring back my signature from my lost bet with you

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:40 PM
You stop that right now or I'm going to bring back my signature from my lost bet with you

Alright. I'll stop.
Don't do that.

Reerun_KC
11-10-2012, 10:44 PM
With the time you'll be required to commit to a highly drafted QB, if he sinks, the franchise will be set back at least 6 years.
I speak from experience. I've lived through the Ryan Leaf years.
If he swims you'll still likely have to wait a few years to get everything together.

It's safer to draft a WR #1 overall and go with Stanzi.

:facepalm:

tredadda
11-10-2012, 10:45 PM
People thought last year's QB class wasn't that great either. Slowly but surely both RGIII and Luck solidified themselves as badasses.

People thought Flacco was a huge risk. Same with Aaron Rodgers, etc etc etc.

Just more excuses.

Luck would have been the #1 pick over Cam Newton had he declared as a junior. This kid has been a #1 pick in the making for years. He didn't do anything more to solidify that. RGIII, I agree with you on, but not Luck.

Douche Baggins
11-10-2012, 10:45 PM
Cam was another guy that people thought wasn't that good.

Uh, no.

But there was at least one anal-yst talking down Luck during the year. Phil Simms definitely.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:46 PM
During the season people were doubting both Luck and RGIII quite a bit.

By draft day it all vanished.

I don't remember it that way at all. I remember a vast majority loving Luck and RGIII last year all year round.

Gadzooks
11-10-2012, 10:46 PM
:facepalm:

If I'd gone with DE instead of WR,would it have made it better?

tredadda
11-10-2012, 10:47 PM
With the time you'll be required to commit to a highly drafted QB, if he sinks, the franchise will be set back at least 6 years.
I speak from experience. I've lived through the Ryan Leaf years.
If he swims you'll still likely have to wait a few years to get everything together.

It's safer to draft a WR #1 overall and go with Stanzi.

Considering that you are a Chargers fan it would seem like you have a vested interest in us not drafting a franchise QB and instead go with Stanzi. Your logic is full of fail though. This is not 2002 anymore.

Bump
11-10-2012, 10:47 PM
this isn't a bad QB class. I see 3 QB's that are gonna be picked in the first round. I dont know what you guys are talking about. You just want to make excuses to take a d-lineman again.

Ebolapox
11-10-2012, 10:48 PM
Geno has a pretty ****ing strong arm.

and if we're talking about how a guy's arm was when he came out, rodgers wasn't thought of as a guy who had a freakishly strong arm. he worked on it and improved via his mechanics, getting more out of his arm than he did after jeff tedford worked on him.

The Bad Guy
11-10-2012, 10:49 PM
this isn't a bad QB class. I see 3 QB's that are gonna be picked in the first round. I dont know what you guys are talking about. You just want to make excuses to take a d-lineman again.

I'd take a QB with a million question marks before I'd invest a top 5 pick in a Dlineman.

I'm concerned about the quality of player, but no way am I passing on taking one.

SNR
11-10-2012, 10:54 PM
If I'd gone with DE instead of WR,would it have made it better?
Jarvis Jones no

Barkevious Mingo yes

Bump
11-10-2012, 11:15 PM
I'd take a QB with a million question marks before I'd invest a top 5 pick in a Dlineman.

I'm concerned about the quality of player, but no way am I passing on taking one.

ya, we gotta at least try. I'll be very happy with Barkley, Wilson, Bray or Geno. I'll be fucking retarded excited!

KCtotheSB
11-10-2012, 11:17 PM
I don't give a shit who we take: Smith or Barkley. He'll be OUR quarterback.

Sorter
11-10-2012, 11:19 PM
and if we're talking about how a guy's arm was when he came out, rodgers wasn't thought of as a guy who had a freakishly strong arm. he worked on it and improved via his mechanics, getting more out of his arm than he did after jeff tedford worked on him.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HDpcMhJFnck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

tk13
11-10-2012, 11:19 PM
I don't give a shit who we take: Smith or Barkley. He'll be OUR quarterback.

At least until he bombs the first 8 games. Then he'll be a bust.

Bump
11-11-2012, 12:55 AM
At least until he bombs the first 8 games. Then he'll be a bust.

I think we'll be understanding and patient unless he goes full ryan leaf or something

SNR
11-11-2012, 01:04 AM
I think we'll be understanding and patient unless he goes full ryan leaf or something

tk13 for some reason is able to get away with making the most hurtful and untrue statements about this group of fans. Everybody loves him because he's easy-going. But then he'll say dumb shit and nobody will call him out on it because he's in the Rain Man/FAX category.

I know he's probably half joking about Chiefs Planet's patience that we'll have with the new QB. But only half. I'm sure he actually believes we'll treat him poorly his first season. And he's flat-out wrong to think that.

I will do everything I can to defend the new QB for the first 1.5 seasons he plays. That's right. A full 24 games.

Bookmark it, tk13. Come at me.

tk13
11-11-2012, 01:21 AM
LMAO

Actually I think people will be so excited they'll probably be more patient than they would've been a few years ago.

Although if we do end up with the #1 pick, that will probably add pressure. After what Cam Newton and Luck have done... people now expect these guys to come in and light it up, which might be unfair. But nobody seems to be calling Bradford a bust yet, so maybe there's hope. I think by the third year you usually need to see something. But I was never crazy about Bradford anyway.

Tribal Warfare
11-11-2012, 01:33 AM
If Geno Smith was 8-1 or 7-2 everyone would say he's the best prospect ever.

I really do believe Geno and Wilson would benefit greatly if they go to the Senior Bowl, and then they would legitimately leapfrog over Barkley.

SNR
11-11-2012, 01:48 AM
LMAO

Actually I think people will be so excited they'll probably be more patient than they would've been a few years ago.

Although if we do end up with the #1 pick, that will probably add pressure. After what Cam Newton and Luck have done... people now expect these guys to come in and light it up, which might be unfair. But nobody seems to be calling Bradford a bust yet, so maybe there's hope. I think by the third year you usually need to see something. But I was never crazy about Bradford anyway.

I've been calling Bradford underwhelming. I hated him coming out of college (I don't actually hate the guy, but you know.. I don't think he's very good) and he's shown very little to me so far.

He's good at getting injured off and on. That's for sure.

Ultra Peanut
11-11-2012, 02:07 AM
Like who? Who has demonstrated anything remotely comparable to anything the top 3 guys have accomplished.

The top 3 guys have flaws. Coachable flaws, but flaws. There are no Tim Tebows, and there are no Jay Cutlers with the million dollar arm but the two cent brain. Every guy has the bottom line skills to be a great starting QB in the NFL.

Fucking pick one and stop bitching.

for definite

saphojunkie
11-11-2012, 02:29 AM
With the time you'll be required to commit to a highly drafted QB, if he sinks, the franchise will be set back at least 6 years.
I speak from experience. I've lived through the Ryan Leaf years.
If he swims you'll still likely have to wait a few years to get everything together.

It's safer to draft a WR #1 overall and go with Stanzi.

Tell that to Jacksonville and Cleveland. Set back a year or two, maybe.

Ace Gunner
11-11-2012, 04:52 AM
FTR- I don't think this a "terrible QB draft class". I don't like Barkley because his foot speed is very slow and to me, in today's NFL, a QB must have quick feet. And, of course, I don't like his lacking arm strength either.

Despite reports Geno S "has to develop his feet" I think Smith has all the tools, but he doesn't play in an NFL style offense, so he will require some development time and that does involve developing feet.

Depending on who is running the Chiefs come 2013 draft day, I'd say nobody is gonna be surprised that one of these QB's will become a Chief. I agree this team is going to be better off too. That's kind of a no brainer.

keg in kc
11-11-2012, 05:40 AM
With as much Mark Sanchez love as there was here, I'm not sure how anybody can say this is a bad class.

BoneKrusher
11-11-2012, 05:57 AM
IMO the success of a QB like Geno Smith who has all the tools will depend on the drafting teams coaching staff and being smart enough to develop him.

with the current staff it would be a disaster.

notorious
11-11-2012, 06:06 AM
What is just as important as drafting one of these guys is getting a competent coaching staff that won't completely ruin him.


The current staff have the capacity to destroy a rookie Elway.

IMO the success of a QB like Geno Smith who has all the tools will depend on the drafting teams coaching staff and being smart enough to develop him.

with the current staff it would be a disaster.

Yes.

PGM
11-11-2012, 06:16 AM
I am not a truefan, and I believe in drafting a QB in the first round, BUT:



This draft will probably have QB's in the mid to late rounds that do just as well as any of the top 3 guys.


I fucking hate thinking it, too.

I like ya, but go kindly run face first into the set of a SyFy original produced "AIDS Tree" for thinking this :D.

PGM
11-11-2012, 06:19 AM
Knowmo and FartBob

Since they don't think so...That right there is enough for me to believe this class is going to be prittay, prittay, prittay good. That moron donkey thinks Assweiler would have been number one overall pick this year ROFL

PGM
11-11-2012, 06:21 AM
Ryan Aplin - Arkansas St.
Tyler Wilson - Arkansas
Landry Jones - Oklahoma
E.J. Manuel - Florida St.
Brad Sorensen - Southern Utah
Matt Scott - Arizona
Collin Klein - Kansas St.
Mike Glennon - North Carolina St.
Dayne Crist - Kansas
Zac Dysert - Miami (OH)
Ryan Nassib - Syracuse
Sean Renfree - Duke
Alex Carder - Western Michigan
James Vandenberg - Iowa
Adam Kennedy - Utah St.
Jeff Tuel - Washington St.
Jordan Rodgers - Vanderbilt


I also know that Jared Lorenzen is a FA. You guys should bring him in for a look.

This is a post of blackboobian levels.

Ugly Duck
11-11-2012, 06:29 AM
I dunno..... they all look like they'd make pretty good #1 overalls to me....

http://media.al.com/live/photo/jamarcus-russell-mugshotjpg-1c36e0c64f45e32b_large.jpg

PGM
11-11-2012, 06:35 AM
"I'll see you at his hall of fame induction" on Mike Williams USC
"Jamarcus Russel is the next Elway" "Top 5 QB in 3 years"

Yeah, Mel Kiper knows all!! Don't worry Slowmo will be along shortly with a twitter post from Incinerated Blob claiming the suckiness of this class in short order.

notorious
11-11-2012, 07:05 AM
I like ya, but go kindly run face first into the set of a SyFy original produced "AIDS Tree" for thinking this :D.




Maybe only my thoughts are infected with AIDS. I haven't been in DC except for election day........maybe I caught something........

PGM
11-11-2012, 07:09 AM
Maybe only my thoughts are infected with AIDS. I haven't been in DC except for election day........maybe I caught something........

Yeah, that cesspool will do that to a man.

stonedstooge
11-11-2012, 07:19 AM
High picks are no longer a huge gamble since the owners slotted the pay scale for the top picks, so that reduces the risk significantly. That being said, it worries me more that if Chunt doesn't get Pisoli out of Kansas City, he'll be allowed to pick another fucking "project" with his first pick and fuck us all AGAIN.

PGM
11-11-2012, 07:21 AM
Why not just trade for another team's backup and put the pick towards a lineman that will protect the true franchise QB coming out in 2015??? Why not guys???

No Luck or Manning in the next couple drafts and if a trade fall through we can always ride it out with Cassel for a year or 2. O-line may finally be ready by then.